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tv   CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin  CNN  September 30, 2019 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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an update now on a story we've reported friday, a 12-year-old girl who accused three male classmates of holding her down and cutting her dred locs. her story is false. the girl's family has just issued an apology. the school says the incident is part of a learning and healing process, and that they will continue to support all the student students and families involved. we continue on, you're watching c cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. president trump talking about the whistle blower again after
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the president asked a foreign power to interfere in the election, and investigate his political rival. a call that the white house is accused of trying to cover up. the whistle blower fears for his or her safety as the president continues to attack him or her including this moments ago in the white house. >> we have a whistle blower that reports things that were incorrect. as you know, and you probably now have figured it out, the statement i made to the president of the ukraine, a good man, a nice man, new, was perfect. it was perfect. but the whistle-blower reported a totally different statement, like the statement was not even made. i guess statement you could say with the call. i made a call. the call was perfect. when the whistle-blower reported it, he made it sound terrible. >> take a look at what one of the whistle blowers attorneys just said, moments ago after hearing that. news update, the law is
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paramount and there are no exceptions for anyone. the president -- the attorney was responding to this from another attorney. the whistle blow eer is entitle to anonymity. and the individual is not to be retaliated against, doing so is a violation of federal law. let's start with kaitlyn kohlens, she has new reporting that the president's allies are not concerned -- are concerned that the president doesn't understand the gravity of what's ahead. >> they're focusing on what the white house's defense is going to be. you see the president in the oval office, he wants to know what the identity of this whistle-blower is, that's something he's repeating, a statement he made yesterday, demanding to know the identity of this. saying chairman schiff should be investigated for treason after he read a fictionalize d statement. this call was perfect, even
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though we've all been able to read the transcript of the phone call. it's been six days since nancy pelosi came out and said they were launching the formal inquiry into the president, against the president. they still don't feel they've been able to mountain aggressive defense. on the sunday shows, they struggled to justify at times, the president's call and what he said to the ukrainian leader they say he's going to need a lot of help as he's fighting democrats. he thinks that both of those things will make him look weak, and he's having rudy giuliani continue to go out, be the mainstay on television, defending him, even though people are telling the president, rudy giuliani is not
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doing you any favors when he goes out on television. >> let's just start with the threats, the public statements from the president. the president says he deserves to meet him or her this person deserves an nim onymity. >> it's completely bizarre conduct by the president. you have to remember that the whistle blower law in question was passed by congress and signed off on by two u.s. presidents. the executive branch and legislative branch have agreed to this law. the president by saying he wants to meet and out the whistle-blower is suggesting a violation of the law. i think the president gets in trouble for this. it's a form of obstruction, it's a form of witness tampering.
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it doesn't arise because you can't indict a sitting president. the thing the president has to be worried about is impeachment, and clearly he can be impeached. the president has the duty to enforce the law, this president thinks it's his ability to violate the law. >> i read two of the attorneys statements for this whistle-blower. how the intel community whistle-blower -- it shouldn't be retaillight yated against. if and when this whistle-blower was outed, what are the legal ramifications for that person who blows his or her cover? >> he's in a difficult position. this is a bizarre situation.
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the guy at the top is eager to support his employees and enforce the law. we've never seen anything like this in american history, with the president being immune from criminal charges, the only remedy this situation has is impeachment. and that's a political remedy. >> we've been talking from the twitter storm from the presid t president. arrested for treason? can the president legally order for anyone he chooses to be investigated. >> the president is in charge of the justice department. he could issue an order to schiff.
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i don't think that's a threat. it's hyperbole. treason is punishable by death. is he threatening death -- >> you heard the threats from last week, he said, you know what we used to do to spies. a lot of the things, the worst probab probably, the worst in american history, he resteined eventually. he at least in the end nixon resigned. >> how about jay seculo says the white house isn't planning to organize a war room clinton had
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a war room what i heard from selo. they won the mueller battle, therefore, they believe they can win this one. >> the mueller battle, the report can be incorporated into the impeachment articles. they can add abuse of power. they can base it on the factual findings of mueller. i think it's foolish to think that just letting the president shoot off from the hip that that's going to help him -- >> he should have a war room. >> they need someone who can confer with his advisers before he goes public with off the cuff remarks like treason for schiff which is punishable by death. that's really going to help him defend against an abuse of
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power? >> and then let me shift to the president's personal attorney. he continues to send mixed messages about whether or not he'll comply with this impeachment inquiry, here he was sunday morning when he was asked if he would respond to a subpoena. >> i wouldn't cooperate with adam schiff, i think he should be removed. >> i didn't say that. i said i will consider it. you. >> said you won the do it. i said i will consider it. i have to -- i'm a lawyer, his privilege not mine. if he decides that he wants me to testify, of course i'll testify. >> did you see him contradict himself right there? >> congress has the right to issue a subpoena, this now has turned into an impeachment investigation, which is really the most important kind of thing that congress could do in some respects.
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congress can enforce the subpoena. at one time they used to keep a jail in the bottom of congress, and if someone defied a subpoena, they could be thrown in that congressional prison. it hasn't been done since 1935. now you get a referral to the justice department, but the justice department is run by the president. they go to a judge to enforce a civil subpoena. you'll see giuliani will show up if he's subpoenaed, what he says is a different method. >> as to whether cory lewandowski -- >> i appreciate that. coming up next, a closer look at the serious concerns, the language that this president has been using, i'll talk to a
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former secret service agent what can be done to protect this person. cnn spoke on camera to two of the ukrainians who met with rudy giuliani, we have details on how chief justice john roberts may oversee a senate trial if the house votes to impeach the president. ♪ limu emu & doug hour 36 in the stakeout. as soon as the homeowners arrive, we'll inform them that liberty mutual customizes home insurance, so they'll only pay for what they need. your turn to keep watch, limu. wake me up if you see anything. [ snoring ] [ loud squawking and siren blaring ]
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we're back, you're watching cnn, i'm brooke baldwin, the whistle blowers attorneys are sounding the alarm about their client's safety. they wrote to the director of national intelligence, certain individuals have issued a $50,000 bounty for any information related to our clients identity. we expect this situation to worsen and to become even more dangerous for our client. and the lawyers added that they're even more concerned after president trump's remarks labelling those who informed the whistle-blower as spies. jennifer rogers is a former federal prosecutor. good to have both of you here, i have oodles of questions.
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the acting dni, we appreciate your office's support thus far to activate appropriate resources to ensure their safety. how do they ensure his or her safety? >> you have to understand what the threat environment is. typically a whistle-blower complaint goes unnoticed. think about how amplified this complaint is. you have a bounty on somebody to unmask them. to find their identities. >> the president himself is demanding. >> not just the president, but people who are acting for the president. now taking his narrative and amplifying it and changing it. when you take a narrative that says this person is potentially treasonous, there's a risk that that narrative transcends into a call to action. a physical harm for this person. i don't think the president would want that. i know the president wouldn't want that.
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you can't understand how a message is received by somebody when the president or mayor giuliani or anybody else is saying, go find this person, they're treasonous. you have to build the appropriate level of protection. understanding what the threat environment is how do you expand inbound threats for somebody to cause this individual harm. >> i want to come back physical security. if this person's cover is blown, what are the legal ramifications for that individual? >> what's interesting about all of this, the whistle-blower isn't important as a witness. you're thinking about it in terms of the giving of information. taking out the whistle-blower doesn't do anything for anyone. he gave us the call. he doesn't need to testify about that. all that we need is information
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he got -- it's not like a criminal case where you have a witness who's the key witness, and they have to testify in person and if they're gone the whole case falls apart, the notion that this person, if this person were taken out somehow would help the president is ridiculous anyway. and yet this threat persists, underscores how just nutty some people are trying to protect the president. >> you've been around washington, d.c., everyone's like who's that in the car with tinted windows. could you imagine a motorcade rolling toward capitol hill, and how do you keep that person anonymous then. people are going to be looking out around capitol hill. how do you pull that off. >> the protection in this instance is a double edged sword. the person is anonymous right
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now. by building a protective structure around them. you're going to amplify their position. someone who may not have protect in the past has armed guards around them. they're going to be unmasked. it has to be a measured approach to protect their identity. that's what they want. protect them from physical harm, protect their identity, to allow this process to continue, and the facts to come out to be adjudicated the right way. >> if you're this whistle-blower's attorney. how do you go about protecting this person, speaking up and out when you have the president of the united states demanding to know who he or she is.
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>> you want this person to testify, it's going to be a classified setting, you want to make sure that they can get in there in a way that doesn't draw attention so they can keep them aknown mouse. as a lawyer, you need to protect this person from retaliation. you need to make sure where he works, he's not demoted, not any adverse action taken against him. protect physically by enlisting the right law enforcement agencies. but also -- >> outside of that fear, the person is vulnerable. it's almost like this person has become a symbol against the president. >> yeah, absolutely. but we have to think about if this moment will pass. if this person gets armed. you lose the capability of the whistle blower act. that's what it's really -- where we're protecting the sanctity of the act itself for future generations. >> okay, okay.
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jonathan and jen rogers, thank you for all of that. the senate majority leader says he would have no choice but to hold a trial if the house votes to impeach president trump. >> if the senate rule related to impeachment that would take 67 votes to change. i would have no choice but to take it up. how long you're on it is a whole different matter. >> in that case, supreme court justice, chief justice john roberts would be forced to preside over that trial. we'll take a look at how he might handle such an historic job. ll them, it may be your detergent... that's why more dishwasher brands recommend cascade platinum. it's specially-designed with the soaking, scrubbing and rinsing built right in. cascade platinum's unique actionpacs dissolve quickly... remove stuck-on food. . . for sparkling-clean dishes, the first time. choose the detergent
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the senate having tried william jefferson clinton, president of the united states upon two articles of impeachment exhibited against him by the house of representatives and two thirds of the senate present not having found him guilty of the charges contained therein. it is ordered and ajudged that the said william jefferson clinton be and here by is acquitted of the charges in the said article. >> 20 years ago was the last
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time a chief justice handled an impeachment trial. presiding over bill clinton's hearing, william rehnquist was thrust into the public eyesight. if the house decides to impeach president interrupt, it would fall to the senate with john roberts presiding. before we get into the what ifs with chief justice roberts. tell us how rehnquist oversaw the clinton impeachment trial. >> it's amazing that was 20 years ago, it feels like yesterday. most people don't see the supreme court in action or how the chief justice does his job. there are no cameras allowed in the supreme court courtroom. and they're known for their mysterious ways. there he was thrust in front of everyone, and he's known for his efficiency and being very punctual. he made the trains run over
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there for sure, and he mainly handled it as a ministerial function. it was the individual senators sitting as the court here, he would assess different questions having to do with senate rules and evidence. but mainly tried to keep things running smoothly as his -- was his way over at the supreme court. >> and just a fun bit of color, that i understand chief justice rehnquist's robe from that historic trial is now on display at the smithsonian. >> that's exactly right. >> in 1992 a few years before the impeachment trial, he had put the four gold stripes on his sleeves. it was something we had seen in a gilbert and sullivan opera. he went back and forth with the smithsonian about donating it.
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he got a $30,000 value from sotheby's and then donated it to the smithsonian. >> what would an impeachment hearing with john roberts look like? >> i think he's going to be a little more skiddish coming over to the senate side. chief justice rehnquist wrote a boch on impeachments. even though chief justice john roberts is a student of history, he's tried to separate the supreme court from politics. it's the only duty of the chief justice that's mentioned in the constitution, so john roberts, if it comes to an impeachment
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trial of president donald trump will cross the street, come over, probably be all business and try to follow his mentors role in presiding in efficient, smooth, noncontroversial manner over the senate trial. >> thank you so much for all of that. coming up next, i will talk to a republican strategist who says his party deserves what it gets if it doesn't stand up to president trump now. you will hear his case for impeachment. as a cio, you want to move your business forward. but when your team is always dealing with device setups, app updates, and support calls... you can never seem to get anywhere. that's why dell technologies created unified workspace,
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as republicans stand firmly in their support of president trump, a growing number of former republican operatives are breaking ranks. we deserve what we get if republicans can't say trump's wrong. rory cooper served as communications director for eric cantor when he was majority leader. if this isn't enough to warrant an impeachment inquiry, nothing does. >> nice to have you on. >> good to be here. >> you get through your whole piece, at the end you say that the republican party would be a shelf itself if it could not say
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as much if it cannot call this out. romney called the ukraine transcript deeply troubling. you have the former trump aid saying he was disturbed by the whistle-blower complaint. what do you want to hear from republicans? >> i want them to take the investigation seriously, if you look at the report from the dni inspector general. who is the trump appointee by the way. the people who corroborated the material were all trump hired staffers at the white house. this is not -- this is -- these are republican operatives within the trump administration who say something smells wrong. if you look at what president trump has admitted publicly, it's enough that the investigation should be taken seriously. i'm not expecting many republicans to jump out and say he should be removed from
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office, he has a 90 plus percent approval rating within the party, that's not going to change overnight. i would like to hear someone say this is wrong, it deserves investigation, and we're going to take it seriously in the congress. >> you have folks like kevin mccarthy and one of his deputies shrugging this off or denying what took place. listen to mccarthy on 60 minutes last night. >> when i read the transcript i see two two leaders having admiration, not intimidation. >> what do you make of this exchange? president zielinski says we're almost ready to buy more javelins from the united states for defense purposes and president trump replies, i would like you to do us a favor, though. >> you just added another word. >> what? >> i would like you to do us a
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favor though. >> how can you say the republican party is still in tact with comments like that? >> what i would like to see is a republican party that returns a little bit to responsibility and the rule of law origins that it once had. i think we are. i think they're going to make the case of impeachment of a republican president. for them to make a compelling case to the american people, they have to move republican numbers. they're going to get the votes in the house to impeach them. if they want to make this trial across the nation count, they need to make persuadable arguments that independent or center right leaning voters say, you know what, that is conduct
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unbecoming of the president. i think getting 20 republican senators to vote that way is wishful thinking. i think anyone can look at this material and understand this is not what a president of the united states should be doing. he's holding military aid to hold a country hostage in order to extract political demands. >> i don't know if jeff blake is a detroit lions guy. republican lawmakers should not back trump's re-election. this is what i wants to write that i wanted to highlight. trust me when i say you can go elsewhere for a job. but you cannot go elsewhere for a soul.
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if the vote were held privately, 35 republican senators, he thinks would vote to remove trump from office. you think back to nixon, it was that oval office reporting of the president, ordering the cover-up. that forced republicans to abandon him. what do you think it's going to have to take for these republicans to stand up against this president? >> we're going to have to get some information. the information is enough to convince me there have been serious wrongdoings that have occurred. i have -- >> the transcript, everything this president has admitted to publicly, that's not enough. >> it's enough for me, but it's not enough for republican members of the house and senate who are facing re-election. we need to be able to lay out a compelling clear case of what
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the president of the united states' responsibilities are in phone calls like that, why he stepped over the line and why conservatives should look at those things and say, we can find a better nominee, we can find a better party leader. i'm going to fine take this seriously, this is not appropriate. coming up next, two of the ukrainians tracked down in that complaint. great riches will find you when liberty mutual
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there are new reports the ukraine's president says he's unlikely to release his own transcript of the controversial phone call with president trump in july. he spoke out once again saying he's feeling no pressure to investigate biden or the dnc. >> i'll be honest with you, we are not doing anything by command. i'll say it again, we are an independent country, we are not following any commands, and we have only one command to serve ukraine. >> other ukrainian officials
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have declined to discuss any of this clarissa ward caught up with two mentioned in that complaint. and got them to talk to her. >> ukraine is struggling with the fallout of america's political crisis. officials are talking. we tracked down two of those mentioned in the whistle-blowerer's complaint. president trump's personal lawyer rudy giuliani approached him in may for a meeting. he's known for his claims, the democrats included with ukrainian officials against trump in 2016. he says the two men spent six hours discussing a range of issues. >> my insights on what's happen i ing. vice president biden, what my
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thought was -- >> this was a priority for giuliani? >> yes, he doesn't hide it, it's his work, that's what he was hired to do to represent the president of the united states and his personal interests. >> by trying to further conspiracy theories about the president's political opponents? >> no. we need to investigate this properly. >> sergei disagrees. giuliani began applying pressure to investigate the bidens shortly after the election. >> i knew it, sure, for giuliani it was interesting. to use this information on the u.s. >> you think he was focused on it for the president or? >> for sure. not for his private purposes.
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>> we know -- on behalf of his client. >> this wasn't a secret? >> it was clear. >> clarissa ward joins how this controversy being received there in ukraine and what do you see as the next move from president zelensky? >> reporter: well, brooke, quite frankly this is very, very awkward for ukraine. ukraine does not want to get involved in america's domestic political turmoil because they know that if they pick a side or if they are even seen to be picking a side at this stage, that could hurt them along the line. president trump may win the next election in 2020. he may not win. ukraine has to be able to do business with whoever wins. and don't forget, brooke, just how reliant ukraine is in the u.s. we're talking about $1.4 billion in military aid since 2015,
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$400 million this year alone. this is a country that is fighting a war with pro-russian separatists and it can't afford to alien ate any administration in the u.s. and that puts ukrainian president zelensky in a very difficult position. i think what you saw earlier when you heard him come out and say, listen, if someone violated the law, we'll try to punish it. but so far we're not taking orders from anyone about who we go after. this will come from within ukraine. it is really basically him trying to show that ukraine will be independent, autonomous and not making decisions based on any partisan pressure from either side. but make no mistake, brooke, this is a tight rope that ukraine is walking. they desperately want this crisis to be over and as we all know, there is no evidence that will happen any time soon, brooke. >> a tight rope indeed. clarisa in kiev, thank you very
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much. also minutes from now, a new poll released showing where the american people stand on impeachment now. you will see it first right here on cnn. hi i'm joan lunden.
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to the wait did frowe just win-ners. prouders everyone uses their phone differently. that's why xfinity mobile let's you design your own data. now you can share it between lines. mix with unlimited, and switch it up at anytime so you only pay for what you need. it's a different kind of wireless network designed to save you money. save up to $400 a year on your wireless bill. plus get $250 back when you buy a new samsung note. click, call or visit a store today. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. >> breaking news. we have just learned that the house intelligence committee has now subpoenaed or issued a
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subpoena for the president's personal lawyer rudy giuliani. let's go straight to manu raju up on capitol hill with the breaking news. manu, tell me more. >> reporter: we had been expecting this move. a dramatic move escalating the impeachment inquiry by the house, led by the house intelligence committee. moments ago they announced they'd issued a subpoena to the president's personal attorney rudy giuliani demanding that he turn over documents as part of the investigation by october 15th. now what the democrats are asking for are communications and other efforts that giuliani was involved with to urge ukraine officials to launch fln investigation into the president's political rival, former vice president joe biden. they say in the letter that -- citing comments that giuliani even made on cnn telling our colleague chris cuomo when he acknowledged saying, of course i did ask ukraine to look into joe biden. now in this letter, they break down a number of different categories of documents that they want to -- giuliani to turn
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over. documents from over the last couple of more than two years. so that is why they're giving him two weeks to provide all of this documentation. now in addition to that, the chairman of the three committees, it is house intelligence led by adam schiff and the house foreign affairs committee led by engel and elijah cummings, they've sent letters to three giuliani business associates seeking depositions of the individuals. so we're seeing more broadly here, brooke, is an escalation by the committee already -- the committees who already sebts subpoenas to the state department asking for documents relating to the effort to urge the ukraine government to investigate the bidens and seeking depositions from former state department officials. the house intelligence committee separately wants to talk to the intelligence community inspector general once again. so we're starting to see the pieces come together of a rapidly-escalating impeachment probe and the latest example going close to the president's
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inner orbit. this committee sending a subpoena to the president's personal attorney telling him to turn over these documents and the question now is will rudy giuliani cooperate? he said mixed things about whether he would do just that and whether the committee will seek his testimony. it is unclear if they take that route but at the moment they want documents and they want those documents within the next two weeks, brooke. >> manu raju breaking the news on giuliani and the spooen. thank you. kylie atwood is at the statement and i have less than 60 seconds. we know that rudy giuliani's name was mentioned in the same breath as the attorney general when you read the transcript of the call between zelensky and trump. remind us how integral he was in the relations with the ukraine. >> well rudy giuliani is arguably the integral player here. he's the one who connected president trump on the political side. he has encouraged the investigation by ukraine officials into joe biden, into his son hunter biden and then we have the formal government side,
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the trump administration, the trump white house. and the question is, where do those two areas conflict with one another and that is what they want to learn about. they want to know what the state department was specifically doing with rudy giuliani. he has said a lot. he said they ordered him to be meeting with ukrainian -- >> we have to go. up up against "the lead." they'll be talking about this. kylie atwood, thank you very much. "the lead" starts now. >> reporter: breaking news, rudy giuliani just slapped with a subpoena. "the lead" starts right now. also breaking, fresh cnn polls coming out right now on "the lead." asking the nation should congress impeach the president. president trump today firing off tweets heavy on insults, short on facts. warning of a civil war-like divide and saying he wants to meet a protected whistle-blower that blew the cover on his call with