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tv   New Day With Alisyn Camerota and John Berman  CNN  November 11, 2019 5:00am-6:01am PST

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camerota and john berman." good morning, everyone. welcome to your "new day." monday november 11th, veterans day. it's 8:00 in the east. historic public impeachment hearings begin this week. the televised hearings get under way on wednesday. three key state department officials are set to testify this week. their testimony will be make or break for the democrats who are trying to make their case that president trump abused his power by attempting to coerce ukraine into investigating the bidens. the president's republican allies are pushing for their own set of witnesses to be included. >> as of now, two key white house figures will not testify, acting chief of staff mick mulvaney and former national security adviser john bolton. later today a judge will hear arguments on a last-minute effort from mulvaney to determine whether he has to show up. witness after witness has alleged that mulvaney was key broker pushing for ukraine to announce investigations that could benefit the president politically and also new this morning, reports that one of the
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men who worked for rudy giuliani, one of the men under indictment, traveled to ukraine in may with an ultimatum to investigate the bidens and this guy is prepared to tell investigators his story. >> joining us maggie haberman for the new york times and cnn political analyst kaitlan collins, white house correspondent. for this historic week is the feeling inside of the white house one of anxiousness or one of we have successfully gotten republicans in line to say that this is all just a democratic partisan process? >> they know they haven't gotten republicans successfully in line with the coherent message they're all sticking to and that is of concern to them. some republicans are saying the facts aren't really in dispute the question is whether you think this is corrupt or not. others the president has been pressing for weeks to try to say there was nothing wrong at all. nothing. >> he was perfect. >> to dispute the facts. the president has made clear he doesn't want this argued on
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process grounds. republicans many don't think they have a choice. the bigger concern within the white house is two fold. one is that television is obviously visual medium in this world here, they know that there -- it could be powerful to see these witnesses testifying in public. that has not been the case for the other hearings, the house democrats have done. bob mueller did not go the way they wanted, corey lewandowski but they know and the president knows this could be compelling. already house democrats handling this differently than they handled the previous ones. staff attorneys are supposed to be doing the questioning. that is going to i think make a big difference. so there is anxiety as we head into this week. >> and the format of the hearings is different. it's not just going to be the five minutes. they will have an extended chunk of time to have the staff members questioning these people, so that does factor into it and something people inside the white house have. talking about as well. >> it is interesting, both of you talked about the argument that the president doesn't want to hear, which is that his actions were bad, but not
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impeachable, but that is the argument that some republicans want to fall back on, including senior republicans, like mac thornberry who was on tv this weekend. >> i believe that it is inappropriate for a president to ask a foreign leader to investigate a political rival. it leads to a question, if there's a political rival with a family member who is involved in questionable activity what do you do, just let them alone. set that aside. i believe it was inappropriate. i do not believe it was impeachable. >> that is not good enough -- wait. my microphone needs fixed here. >> where did he come from? >> pay no attention to the man behind my back. let me continue here. the president responded to mac thornberry over the weekend saying there was nothing said that was in any way wrong. republicans don't be led into the fool's trap of saying it was not perfect but not impeachable.
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no. it is much stronger than that. nothing was done wrong. >> mac thornberry spent a lot of time with the president recently because he was in the box game five during the world series. mac thornberry knows what the president's position is on this. these members, despite what the white house and president tell them to say, when in front of the camera they don't know a defense other than saying something like that. a lot wish the president would concede the call wasn't perfect, what i did maybe wasn't the best way to handle that, i didn't realize the implications of what i was saying. that is not something the president is likely to do. he truly insists even privately what he said wasn't wrong. >> let's move on to rudy giuliani who continues to be a fascinating character in all of this. lev parnas, one of these soviet born-guys charged now with illegally funneling foreign money into u.s. elections he is apparently willing to speak to investigators and what he wants to tell them in may, he traveled to kiev under the auspices of rudy giuliani with with the
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instruction to talk to zelensky's -- one of zelensky's aides and say basically there would be no meeting with mike pence, which they were hoping for -- which the ukrainians were hoping for, unless -- he wouldn't come to the swearing in unless they would investigate the bidens. there would be a holding up of military aid. >> right. so we know -- this is a classic he said/she said we have seen ourselves having to cover many times over the last three years, where it's not as if lev parnas is somebody with an enormous amount of credibility. he has been indicted. he is under investigation. he obviously has a reason to try to look as if he's cooperating. on the other, you have people around the president and some of his advisors and giuliani who have clearly been pursuing this for a long time and at least some of them, not necessarily giuliani, but others have said things that have not quite held up to be true including what we were all told which was that there was not going to be any evidence of anything problematic once the white house released the transcript of the president's call with president zelensky, so i think that all of us can do is lay out the facts
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and people can make their choice about who they believe. if what parnas says is true, and i think this is through his lawyer, but if what they are claiming is true, and if investigators find it credible, that could open up a huge can of worms. >> it is interesting in and of itself that his lawyer is talking to your paper, "the new york times" in such extensive detail. that's what struck me about this. lev parnas is basically volunteering to be a witness in the impeachment inquiry. >> i think he wants to show he is cooperating in one way or another and for two reasons, he may genuinely have information he wants to share and i think the other is that we're seeing a number of people getting concerned that they are going to be left holding the bag if the facts shift and it becomes clear there were specific people involved in this doing inappropriate or possibly unlawful things and i think that people are trying to protect themselves. he's one of them. >> should we move on to charles kupperman? >> yes. >> this is a big, significant
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development. >> charles kupperman and john bolton have the same attorney and they are trying to figure out, i suppose, if they are supposed to actually talk to congressional investigators because the white house has said no. interestingly, over the weekend, mic mulvaney, no friend of john bolton, they appear to be on different sides, somehow tried to piggyback on to this legal -- >> this lawsuit where essentially he's saying i'm stuck between house democrats and the white house. the white house is telling me not to testify, the house democrats are subpoenaing me to testify. this is essentially telling the courts to decide who he has to listen to here. he's deputy national security adviser, former deputy national security adviser and not that close to the president. he essentially doesn't want to leave his fate in donald trump's hands. what's interesting to see mulvaney attempt to get on this lawsuit is that he could listen to the white house. he's one official involved in this that's still in the white house and he could listen to their direction not to go testify, but instead he's trying to also leave it up to the court to decide what he has to do.
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it's interesting because he also is not using white house counsel to make this argument, he has his attorney making his argument, they will have a conference call today to see what exactly this is going to do. it's notable that mick mulvaney, chief of staff, is saying i'm going to let the courts decide instead of me following what donald trump has told me to do. >> you're nodding like you understand this. >> i understand what kaitlan is saying. >> it's all very confusing for nothing else, because no one has to testify at this point because the democrats aren't necessarily pushing it anymore. they're going forward with their impeachment proceedings at this point, whether or not these folks show up. it's unclear to me what mulvaney is doing. >> it's confusing. one could be that he actually is trying to not necessarily help the president, but basically push this into an area where it's going to be delayed. this case is going to go on and drag out. the timetable seems likely even though the subpoena for kupperman was withdrawn, it seems likely that the subpoena for mulvaney has not and this
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could drag out past the house democrats' time frame for impeachment. that's in one corner. on the other, it could be mulvaney sending a signal he is separating out from the president something that his lawyer emphatically denied but at the end of the day i was told a couple weeks ago mulvaney didn't see a reason to have his own attorney and now he does. that is coming at a time when you see republicans increasingly focus on mulvaney and a couple other aides as the possible people to offload responsibility for what happened with ukraine on. we'll see. >> that one is interesting. that latter scenario of mick mulvaney separating himself from the president. >> he also brought a lot on himself when he did that press briefing where he laid out essentially the circumstances here, said yes, actually the fact that the president did want this investigation into this debunked conspiracy theory ukraine was behind interference in the 2016 election, that's why investigators and republicans and democrats are talking about his role in this. also his standing in the white house is not guaranteed. there is a lot of questions about whether or not he's going to remain chief of staff.
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people think he will throughout impeachment but you never really know in this white house. i think he's also trying to have backup for if something does happen to him and he no longer has that guaranteed protection. >> this week starting on wednesday we will hear from ambassador william taylor and the state department official and maria yovanovitch. any sense going into this whom the white house fears most or most focused on? >> bill taylor they've been focused quite a bit on i think in terms of the president's own reaction, the ukrainian ambassador is going to be somebody who he could be provoked by watching her testimony. she's emphatic and direct about how she was treated, aggressively she was targeted by rudy giuliani and by extension by the president. certainly by rudy giuliani and they had problems with how she was doing her job. i think in general it's the whole collective. i don't think that there's one particular person who they are looking at right now who they see as problematic.
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lieutenant colonel vindman who testified on the call and testified behind closed doors wearing his dress uniform that would be potentially problematic vish shoo for them. >> not schedule yet. >> as the president is watching this, he's considering who is in the room on his side from the republicans and you're seeing them move certain members better at questioning in their minds more aggressive there, because the president watches this closely. he's not only watching the democrats and witnesses he always, as he did during mueller, watching the republicans to see who is the most aggressive and embarrass and undermine the witnesses the most. that's another thing he's keeping an eye on. >> thank you very much. kaitlan, it's a difficult morning to be here after alabama's defeat. we appreciate you. >> i'm in mourning. i should be wearing all black. >> thank you, guys. high stakes public impeachment hearings begin in a matter of days. we hear from both sides of the aisle as a house democrat and republican join us. that life of the party look walk it off look one more mile look reply all look
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this is a live look at the marine corps memorial in arlington, virginia. veterans day. today we honor all of the men and women who have served this country. new this morning, a bipartisan effort to recognize veterans from the global war on terror, giving them their own memorial on the national mall. jing us now to discuss congressman jason crowe, democrat from colorado and congressman mike gallagher, republican from wisconsin, both are combat veterans, both served on the armed services committee. great to see both of you this morning. thanks so much for taking time to talk to us about this. congressman gallagher, tell us about why it was important to have this memorial for the veterans of the global war on terror in the reserve section on the national mall? why does this matter to you? >> first of all, i want to say to my colleague and friend jason crowe, i want to thank him for his efforts, you know, pains me to have to work with an army guy on stuff like this, but this is
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just an example of the divided time in d.c. we're still committed working together to get stuff done. i think there's no more fitting place than on the national mall to honor our generation of veterans and so they can be honored right next to veterans from world war ii, korea and vietnam and when they take a flight to d.c. they can see that in honor of their service. >> you served in iraq. congressman crowe you were in afghanistan. was there a feeling among veterans of those wars they were somehow being overlooked without a memorial there on the national mall? >> well, thanks for having us on. i know you had to give the marine the first shot at things. that's okay. it's really good to be here. you know, as mike just said, this is a really important opportunity for us to recognize now multiple generations of americans who have served in this war, thousands have sacrificed their lives, tens of thousands have been wounded,
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millions have served, and it's important that we provide a place for these folks. mike and i have seen over the last couple of years the transformative power of space and the ability to bring people together for reunion for contemplation for kind of understanding that service experience and that's what this is about, is providing now two generations of americans whose lives have been defined by these conflicts that sense of place, that opportunity to come together to think about what that experience meant to them. >> and congressman gallagher, i know you mentioned this is bipartisan. i think this is really important that you two did this together, spearheaded this. and why -- how did you? just tell us a little bit about the process about how you decided to make this effort together? >> well, in the last congress, i was fortunate enough to work with a democrat and my friend representative seth molton to get the initial piece of legislation which made the global war on terrorism except from restrictive language in the
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works act and western able to build a large group of cosponsors. when we encountered this snag including requiring a legislative vehicle to get this memorial placed on the national mall it was only fitting to repeat that process and find a democrat who served a younger veteran to work with and i don't know if they this played a part in the process but jason and my office are next to each other and i accidentally walk into his office and why not get the proximity to get this done. >> that's a lucky accident. proximity helps. i do want to move on and talk to you guys about this being a historic week on capitol hill in washington this as you know, the public phase of this impeachment hearing is beginning. let me stick with you for a second, congressman gallagher, you have been outspoken saying you felt up until nows the process had lacked transparency. are you pleased today that it is
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moving to the public phase of the inquiry? >> well, i think it's fair enough given, you know, all the complaints about it being conducted in secrecy. my broader concern, which goes beyond impeachment i've been voicing for my last three years in congress, as an institution, congress was no longer really designed to get stuff done. if you look at the variety of things we have an opportunity to get done in this congress whether it's passing usmca, improving our workforce, i worry this will further make an already scler rottic institution more scler rottic. we'll see. it's even more important that you have newer members, younger generations, particularly those who have served in uniform, willing to reach across the aisle like jason and i are trying to do, and work on legislation like this notwithstanding what's happening on impeachment. >> congressman crow, your thoughts as the public phase of this begins? >> yeah. mike and i approach our service
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from a similar perspectives. we, you know, served in the military and i think having that background was helpful. we have two choices. we can spend all of our time beating each other up and debatesing the areas where we disagree on, there are plenty of them, or we can spend our time trying to focus on areas where we agree and find common ground and move the country forward. that's the decision we've made. to try to figure out how we can get the business of the country done, how we can show the government can still work, how we can do something to honor our fellow veterans, and move the country forward. you know, we will certainly have our debates. i know that. but today is a day on veterans day of all days, for us to focus on what we do have in common, what brings us together, both of us agree as americans we have far more in common than some of our differences might suggest, and it's time to, you know, focus on that. >> yeah. you don't often hear that out of capitol hill right now. and so congressman gallagher, i
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want to ask you, this is something the president has said he feels very -- is important for republicans to echo, do you feel that the call with president zelensky and president trump was a perfect call? >> i see nothing in the transcript of the call to warrant an impeachable offense. i want to echo everything jason said. i could not have said it better. i just attended a number of incredible events across northeast wisconsin honoring our nation's veterans and going to do more today. at each of the events the concerns i heard were about practical things, about making their lives better and as jason put it eloquently moving the country forward. i vowed when i ran i was going to treat it like a deployment and not a career. i'm proud to serve with people like jason who are approaching it in a similar manner. >> congressman crow, i want to ask you about something former u.n. ambassador nikki haley
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written in her book. because you both put emphasis on military service and public service what do you think about what she has written in her book about john kelly and rex tillerson, i'll read you a quick excerpt, says kelly and tillerson confided in me when they resisted the president, they were not being insubordinate, but they were trying to save the country. it was their decisions, not the president's, in the best interest of america, they said. the. the didn't know what he was doing. can you just tell me your thoughts on the fact that they felt that they were somehow guardrails and she feels that they were being, i think, her take they were being insubordinate. >> well, i haven't read nikki haley's book. i don't know nikki haley. i can't get inside her mind. probably because i've been too busy working with mike gallagher to get the global war on terror memorial done and honor our veterans. i can't -- i can't pretend to try to understand what's going on inside of her mind and what
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she's thinking. certainly there's going to be a debate. we will see a debate in the weeks and months about what happened and how do we get to the facts. more important than anything we have to get the facts so that, you know, people like mike and i and others and the american people can understand what happened and what the right thing to do to move our country forward is going to have to be. >> do you think, congressman crow, that it would be honorable if somebody thinks that the president isn't doing something that is in the public good, do you think it would be -- have been honorable of those two men to have tried to resist? >> well, i've been very clear that, you know, the oath means a lot to me and that to execute your oath, fulfill it you have to make sure you do what's in the best interest of the country and not your personal interests and not your career interests and that's been -- i've been very consistent about that in the last year as a variety of things have happened and, you know, i will call on anybody, whoever it is, whether they're republican or whether they're a democrat, whether they're
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serving in the administration or outside the administration, to always go back to that oath. that oath is your north star, to do what's right, to fulfill your obligation and duty to the country. >> congressman gallagher, do you see a way in which resistance could be honorable inside the white house? >> i think that's a dangerous road to go down. if you serve in the executive branch you work for the president. if you come across something you feel violates your duty, if you feel like you've been given an unlawful order you can resign as others have in the past. the minute we start allowing unelected bureaucrats to think they have a power that goes beed on yond the elected respectives of the american people is where we go down a dangerous path. i worry this is evidence of the fact that on veterans day we spend all of our time talking about impeachment, i understand it's important, i understand people want to know about it, i think it's just going to further divide the country and for one day, one day, i hope we can come together and just celebrate what
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unites us as americans and this is one thing. what jason and i are trying to do maybe in a very, very small way is find something we can bring the country together on and so we're hoping we can move this forward regardless what happens with impeachment. >> it doesn't feel small and we appreciate you both taking time this morning and coming on to tells us your bipartisan effort about this. congressman gallagher and congressman crow, thank you for your service. we really appreciate you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> i love them putting their interservice marine and army rivalry above the partisan conflict. that's the way to get beyond the partisan ranker. find a new fight. i thank both of those men. rudy giuliani has been given unprecedented access to foreign leaders as the president's personal attorney. how does this complicate u.s. foreign policy? that's next. the coffee here is amazing. because the volcanic soil is amazing. so we give farmers like win more plants. to grow more delicious coffee. which helps provide for win's family. all, for a smoother tasting cup of coffee.
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not my thing. so rudy giuliani's actions as president trump's personal attorney have raised concerns for many. a cnn investigation reveals that giuliani has been acting as a shadow secretary of state, sometimes working across purposes with official u.s. policy. drew griffin joins us from atlanta with more. this is more than academic right now, obviously it's at the center of the impeachment probe. >> absolutely. giuliani's name coming up over and over again in these witness testimonies. john, giuliani says he's working for free. he is working for free for the president. that doesn't mean he's not making money. his sats you as the president's -- status as the president's private attorney has raised his status and influs
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when even if only perceived across the world and rudy giuliani is cashing in. >> reporter: when brazil's president attended a u.n. general assembly in late september he was recovering from surgery. only on the ground for 30 hours he reportedly didn't meet with any heads of state. he did, however, meet with rudy giuliani. it's a prime example of how giuliani's position as president trump's pro bono lawyer has given him unprecedented access to foreign leaders and how those leaders treat him as a representative of the president. a cnn review finds giuliani has met or communicated with top government officials of at least seven countries since becoming trump's attorney. his actions so troubling, sources inside the u.s. state department tell cnn they track giuliani's comments which sometimes contradict u.s. policy. >> there are those in the state department and in the professional u.s. national security apparatus who view
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giuliani as a shadow secretary of state. >> reporter: giuliani left public office as new york's mayor back in 2001. since then he's made millions in speaking fees and security and consulting contracts all over the globe. being associated with donald trump has opened new doors at the top levels. he traveled to uruguay where he met with the president. got rare access to the king of bay rain and the prince. usually introduced or referred to as president trump's adviser. in almost every case, there is something else. the president's unpaid trusted adviser is seeking to cash in. security contracts in bahrain, hired in uruguay, speaking fees in ar mania. former state department official andrew miller says it's hard to tell who giuliani works for and foreign governments are taking no chances.
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>> it is dangerous when you have someone who's interests are not aligned with the u.s. government and that makes it a possibility that there's going to be some type of compromising of u.s. national security interests. >> reporter: the top example so far is ukraine where giuliani was paid $500,000 by a shady businessman who wanted the u.s. ambassador ousted. giuliani convinced president trump to get rid of her and also pushed for a ukrainian investigation into joe biden and his son hunter. but it's not the only example where giuliani's business interests contradicted or directed u.s. foreign policy. in romania, he was paid to write a letter in support of a corrupt businessman, in direct contrast to the u.s. policy of urging romania to crack down on corruption. >> there was mr. giuliani basically siding with the crooks. >> reporter: in al baena he advocated for regime change in iran. this is not the official policy of the united states.
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>> mr. giuliani, drew griffin with cnn. >> yes, sir, how are you? >> reporter: asked this week about cashing in on the trump presidency, giuliani became defensive. >> that is totally an unfair question, i don't expect it from the corrupt news network and everything i've done is totally legal. >> reporter: senator tom udall is one of a half dozen democrats in the senate asking the department of justice if giuliani's actions and failure to register under the foreign agents act is breaking the law. >> with what we see out there and the multiple clients around the world, his meetings with the trump administration, with the president, with various administration officials, there's no doubt that i think that there's a real issue here. >> giuliani insists he is only guilty of one thing, defending the president. >> i am in private law practice. i practice law honorably and well. never had a complaint or issue
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ever in 50 years of private law practice and i am being targeted by cnn because i am proving that you are corrupt in your coverage of the president all throughout this impeachment proceeding. >> what we're seeing coming out of these house hearings, this testimony, from inside trump's diplomatic core where they're worried about what giuliani has been doing, famously fiona hill, the president's top former russian adviser who thought what giuliani was doing in ukraine was, in fact, illegal. >> john bolton called -- apparently called it a deal. how does rudy giuliani's contact affect u.s. relations with its allies. we'll speak with a former ambassador next. >> how are you, baby?
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you just heard this investigation by drew griffin detailed how rudy giuliani met or communicated with top government officials with at least searven countries since becoming president trump's personal attorney. joining me is nicolas burns, a former ambassador to nato, note
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also a foreign policy adviser to joe biden's campaign. thank you for being with us. drew's story was really interesting on many levels. there is the money level, which is that rudy giuliani is making a lot of money going around the world forming contracts with foreign countries and he's advertising himself as the president's lawyer or he is being billed as the president's lawyer, is there anything inherently problematic with that? >> well, john, previous presidents have used private citizens as presidential emissaries. the problem here is that rudy giuliani describes himself consistently as the president's private attorney and yet, he's doing the publics business of the united states. the example of ukraine i think is the most vivid here because rudy giuliani effectively pushed aside the secretary of state mike pompeo had ambassador maria yovanovitch fired, convinced the president to do that and engineered this dramatic turn in american policy towards ukraine
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where we effectively tried -- the administration tried to extort ukraine to investigate joe biden. this is a real problem because it puts the private attorney of the president directly in the middle of our policy towards one of the most important countries in europe, ukraine, a country we're trying to help. it confused the ukrainians and confused all the people in the administration and if the president ends up being impeached i think -- by house the i think that rudy giuliani will have been the major person leading to that impeachment. >> you brought up the fact that previous presidents have used private emma sairries before. i was reading, he compared what rudy giuliani has compared to the famous adviser to roosevelt. cou think that was an appropriate comparison. >> i don't. he moved into the white house and became president roosevelt's della nor roosevelt's closest
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adviser, a an employee of the u.s. government. i don't think that's an apt comparison. this is 2019 and you have a private attorney of the president high jacking the public business of the united states. that's at the center of this week's impeachment hearings by the house. it's what george kent and bill taylor and others are going to be testifying about. >> and you've heard, not just from kent and taylor, but other people, connected to the state department who have concerns with what giuliani has done. what are you hearing from people, your old friends in the state department? >> mass confusion about how the administration arrange itself. you want to have one person in charge but that person has to be a u.s. government employee. it's one thing to send a private emissary to have one meeting and take sounds and be the eyes and ears of the president but another thing over the course of an entire year, rudy giuliani became the centerpiece of u.s.
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foreign policy and all these other people who are statutorily in charge of that policy, the ambassador of the united states, secretary of state, really had nothing to say and it leads to this i think extraordinarily unwise decision, possibly criminal decision, by the administration of extortion of a foreign government. that is not how the united states should act in the world. >> isn't the problem that giuliani himself says he's not doing this for the national interests, that he says he's over there exclusively to serve his client? >> well, that's what's unusual here. i don't think previous emissaries of previous presidents were the personal attorneys of the president trying to do the personal business of the president. the president is commander in chief. whatever the president does on ukraine is the public business of the united states and that's the dichotomy here that i think has got the trump administration in a lot of hot water this week. >> i want to ask you a question, this is on the basis of your former role as ambassador to
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nato, the french president macron had a statement which caught a lot of people's attention he said nato is suffering from brain death, the instability of our american partner and rising tensions have meant that the idea of european defense is gradually taking hold. i would add that we will at some stage have to take stock of nato to my mind what we are currently experiencing is the brain death of nato. we have to be lucid. what do you make of that? >> well, i think two things, john. one is that president macron's clearly frustrated by the fact that for the first time since nato's founding in 1949, the united states president, president trump in this case, is not leading nato. macron cited the particular incident of the president withdrawing american special forces from syria and not working with the french and british british who also had special forces, not telling them, and he was burned by that. macron's prescription is off the mark because nato is vital right
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now to ccontain russian power i eastern europe like the ball tick states and poland and helping the ukrainians defend off putin and it belies the fact that in the united states public opinion now is very strongly supportive of nato. republicans and democrats in congress very strong. i think when president trump leaves the oval office, whenever that is, when he's defeated i hope in 2020, any possible successor and you know i hope that's going to be vice president biden, is going to return the united states to a leadership role in nato. this is macron trying to build up the momentum for the european union, essentially to bypass nato. >> ambassador burns, thank you so much for being with us this morning. >> thanks so much. thank you. >> we have a programming note, former vice president joe biden takes questions from voters in a cnn town hall live from iowa tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern on cnn. on this veterans day the army is considering new rules for arlington national cemetery.
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this is a live look at the tomb of the unknown soldier at arlington national cemetery in virginia on this veterans day. the u.s. army is proposing new rules for which veterans would qualify to be buried there. cnn's barbara starr is live from the pentagon with more. so what are these rules, barbara? >> good morning, alisyn. on this veterans day there are 22 million living american service members and veterans and it's a simple fact, arlington may be running out of room. across the rolling green lawns of arlington national cemetery the final resting place for more than 400,000 active duty troops, veterans and their families. >> the story of those remembered today is one of extraordinary sacrifice. it's a story of lives cut short,
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of hopes and dreams never realized. >> reporter: for more than 150 years, these hallowed grounds have recorded the history of america's veterans. 1500 of the first black combat soldiers who served in the civil war were laid to rest here. presidents are here. and so are hundreds of young troops who died in iraq and afghanistan. now, however, the march of times has caught up. arlington is running out of room. >> we want to stay open for 150 more years, so -- and not just our current generation, but that 5-year-old who is going to raise his or her hand to serve this nation, we want to be available for them for our future. >> reporter: proposed new rules still allow burial for those killed in action and recipients of the highest awards such as the medal of honor. for others, such as retirees and veterans otherwise not eligible, they will have to choose cremation and an urn above ground. the numbers alone are
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staggering. today there are 22 million living armed forces members and veterans who are eligible for burial, but less than 95,000 burial spaces remain. it's a sensitive issue for today's younger veterans. >> i talked to quite a few veterans about this issue and mixed reactions, but mainly of a big sense of disappointment that this is signaling that this is coming to an end and i think that most veterans would like to be able to see the possibility that maybe they might be able to be buried there. i know i certainly would like to myself. >> reporter: arlington says there is simply no choice, expansion and changes are vital. >> we will fill up so without a change in criteria, we will be closed in about the year 2041. >> reporter: and they are going to try at least to keep space for the world war ii generation, america's greatest generation, so they will not have to worry
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about this. john? >> i have to say, barbara, arlington is such a wondrous place in its own way and learned more about it from you than anyone in america. your reporting on arlington is wonderful. thank you so much for that. >> thank you, john. >> the good stuff is next. ♪ even though we just started dating ♪ ♪ i find you so captivating ♪ and i'm done with hesitating let's see where this goes? save on a gift that says it all. ♪ jared seaonly abreva cany to help sget rid of it in... little as 2 1/2 days when used at the first sign. abreva starts to work immediately to block the virus and protect healthy cells. abreva acts on it. so you can too.
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clawing and continue digging, get that education. >> keep on clawing, keep on digging, get that education. 70 years later corporal shaw is the grand marshal in the local veterans day parade. congratulations to him and thank you for everything he's done. >> that is a beautiful story. it's also the beginning of a historic week in washington. "newsroom" with poppy harlow and jim sciutto picks up coverage now. good monday morning. i'm poppy harlow. >> i'm jim sciutto. it is a critical week in the impeachment investigation. closed doors hearings are going to go public and the american people get their chance to hear the testimony live from several of these witnesses. three key state department officials are answering questions today. democrats looking forward to building their case that president trump abused his power by trying to pressure ukraine into investigating the bidens.


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