tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN December 4, 2019 8:00pm-9:00pm PST
there's evidence president trump committed impeachment offenses. one of them joins me in a moment. we'll also look at the role of powerful women at the hearings that stood up to badgering by some republicans and testified in stark terms against the president's words and deeds. plus one favorite republican tactic and we saw it time after time today is yelling at and para barrading witnesses, is that working for them? we'll discuss. also the phone logs revealed in the house intel report showing rudy giuliani's numerous phone calls to the white house last spring including a mysterious unidentified number designated as one and with the impeachment hearings in high gear, is rudy giuliani meeting in ukraine in an effort to defend the president? we'll see what he is telling cnn. but first, breaking news out of hawaii tonight. two civilian employees shot to
death and one wounded by a u.s. sailor on joint base pearl harbor-hickam. the shooter also dead. joining me now on the phone is lydia robertson, the spokesperson for the navy region in hawaii. thank you so much commander. we appreciate you joining us. two civilian shipyard workers were killed. what can you tell us about this? >> well, i can tell you that within minutes of hearing shots our security forces responded immediately and we put the base into a lock down and shelter in place. security responded very quickly. we were able to team with local law enforcement as well to ensure that we could get the situation in hand and as many people as safe as possible. the base was in lock down for a period of time but it is now open again while the investigation continues. >> what more do you know anything more about the shooter? what can you tell us about it. >> i can tell you that he has been identified as a u.s. sailor
assigned to uss columbia which is a sub marine and that's all we have. we're not going to provide identities of individuals involved until they have been notified and the investigation continues. >> okay. so again we have lydia robertson on the phone and this information is just coming in to cnn, two civilians dead after a shooting at point based pearl harbor-hickam and if you can stand by, i want to listen to this and then i'll get you on the other side. let's listen. >> i heard like loud pops and i kind of recognized that and gunshots and i looked out the window and saw three people on the ground and i looked out in time to see the shooter who i assume was a sailor because he was in uniform.
>> so that was a witness to this. i would imagine we're looking at the video during the time this happened earlier today, complete chaos. what is it like now? what is the mood like now there? >> we have family here. these are people that have worked here for generations. the dry dock is renowned for the amazing work they did in world war ii to help our forces and ships get back to the fight after the damage of pearl harbor and we're about to commemorate the anniversary of that attack in a few days. these are people that work in the shipyard. so it's somber and serious. you don't expect it to happen to you but we have a great security force that responded quickly. we teamed with the local law
enforcement and we have a great relationship with them and we'll work together on this investigation as we go through this. we're just getting this information. lydia, we heard the tentative information that we had here as the shooter was identified and i think that you said it as well. as an active duty u.s. sailor assigned to uss columbia at the base, did this person display behavior before? >> i don't have any information on that right now but i know that the investigation will look at every possible piece involved in this. we're also paying attention to other people that were witnesses like you referenced earlier. we have counselors and chaplains available. we want to provide the support to people they need in the aftermath of something like this. >> do you know when you'll have the next update? >> i don't but we'll post information on our facebook paej
when we do have more information and we'll let media know when we're able to provide more information. >> i know it's a very busy and trying time for you. we appreciate you joining us. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> joint base pearl harbor-hickam where there's been a shooting. two civilians dead and the shooter according to her an active duty u.s. sailor assigned to u.s.s. columbia which is at the base for standard maintenance. as soon as we get more information we'll bring it to you. i want to bring in one of the constitutional scholars that testified today. thank you all for joining us. a very busy day and very busy night as you can see here on cnn. boy, let's take a breath.
michael, this is a key moment from today's hearing. watch this. >> professor feldman, did president trump commit the impeach able high crime and misdemeanor of abuse of power based on that evidence and those findings. >> based on that evidence and those findings the president did commit an impeachable office. >> did he commit the high crime and misdemeanor of abuse of power? >> we three are unanimous, yes. >> so you three strongly agree the evidence for impeachment is there. the gop's witness disagreed. how do you think that went today? >> i think we're still trying to figure that out. i think we were able to get our answers out and we were able to
be as honest as we could. i hope we were helpful and civil for the most part. i think the committee was asking us questions, republicans and we were talking about why it's in the constitution and what it's there for and how it's designed to protect against tyranny and also abuse of power. it's primarily designed to address corruption in government. so we tried to get all of that out and i think we have to feel pretty good we did that and now, really, the question is going to be did it help educate the public and how did it effect the future of the hearing? >> you partially answered any next question here. i'm just curious, why do you think house democrats started this new phase with constitutional experts? >> i think they started it with
the three of us and professor as well because they felt it showed abuse of power in both ways and then the question is how does the law apply to those facts. >> i want to bring you in now. the republican witness made the case that this process should slow down and get more evidence but that's not what republicans actually want. they want this over and trump continues to deny any wrongdoing. >> yeah. it's an interesting argument. is this actually going super fast? sometimes as a journalist covering it, it feels that way. there was a very short period of time between the story breaking and then the transfer to the phone call coming out and the facts being in evidence. republicans might like to see
this extended out. i could see the democrats wanting to extend it too. maybe they want more time to find information. i'm not sure how much the idea that this is being rushed is so much of a counter argument to the facts that are in evidence. the fact of the matter is that the great bulk of evidence in the case against the president came out in large measure because the white house released it in the form of that transcript and the complaint itself came out. >> they're arguing process and not any of the evidence or the witness testimony. it's good to see you again and i loved what you wrote here and i read it. so thank you for coming on. you say republicans were desperate to avoid prosecuting the argument on facts. they were arguing process. >> remember when they pretended they weren't in this basement that they keep talking about? 49 republicans were invited from three committees to come and
join in all the depositions but they would come out and tell the public that it was all being done in secret under lock down so that many americans believe the republicans weren't even a part of the depositions. where they were allowed equal time to ask questions. then stephanie grisham, the press secretary of the president of the united states was tweeting today about how he doesn't have rights in in process. the white house turned down the offer from the democratic majority on the judiciary committee to have their lawyers come and offer their own perspective on the history of impeachment leaving jonathan to do it instead. so there's a lot of deflection and defiance and distraction and screaming but not a lot of debating the facts. everything was in secret. the minute there were hearings it was a show trial. if it's too fast, they're rushing it for a calendar.
if they go on too long it will be a grinding on witch hunt that they're obsessing about. they do this because they really don't want to stand up as people that took an oath to the constitution and not the man and say this is acceptable and normalize it for all of history and for future presidents to say what he did is fine. and the faster it goes, i think the better it is for republicans because they can, you know, have a lot of drama about tactics and when are we going to get a witness day and you guys are being mean to us but if this goes on and on i think it will be more clear to the public that that's just what it is. >> and speak very loudly. there was a lot of yelling going on. >> there was a lot of screaming. >> i want to apologize to you guys that this is cut short because of the breaking news.
i'm sure that you understand this. you have done this before. i want to talk to you about the 12 senate republicans that might vote to remove trump but i don't have the opportunity. we'll have you all back. thank you for joining us this evening. you guys have a great evening. the impeachment hearings featured some really strong women and today's hearing was no exception. >> i would not speak about these things without reviewing the facts so i'm insulting by the suggestion that as a law professor i don't care about those facts. >> the powerful women at the impeachment hearings, next. (contemplative synth music)
he's finally here! hey! how are you? i'm good. ♪ how are you? hello grandma! for every family going home for the holidays, there are countless people working to help them get there. thank you to everyone we rely on to get us home to the ones we love. ♪ the most effective people have been those that held strong and firm in the face of all the distraction and many of them have been women. athena jones has more. >> do you swear or affirm -- >> stanford law school professor
was fired upright from the start. >> i would like to say to you, sir, that i read transcripts of every one of the witnesses who appeared in the live hearing -- >> pushing back at the suggestion by the top republican that she had not followed the impeachment testimony and the evidence layed out so far. >> because i would not speak about these things without reviewing the facts, so i'm insulted by the suggestion that as a law professor i don't care about those facts. >> karlin, the latest in a line of women to deliver a powerful message to lawmakers. part of the panel testifying about the constitutional rounds for impeaching president trump. saying trump abused his power. >> imagine living in a part of louisiana or tech tech that's prone to devastating hurricanes and flooding. what would you think if you lived there and your governor asked for a meeting with the president to discuss getting
disaster aid that congress has provided for? what would you think if that president said, i would like to you to do us a favor. i'll meet with you and i'll send the disaster relief once you brand my opponent a criminal. wouldn't you know in your gut that such a president had abused his office? if you con cluclude that as the evidence to this point shows that the president is soliciting foreign involvement in this election you need to act now to prevent foreign interference in the next election like the one we had in the past. >> before karlan it was fiona hill that turned heads. blasting the conspiracy theory the president and his allies continue to promote that ukraine interfered in the election. >> this is being perpetrated by the russian security forces themselves. >> she testified on what she viewed as an irregular second channel of policy for ukraine
lead by gordon sondland. >> he was being involved in a domestic political errand and we were being involved in national security foreign policy and those two things have just diverged and i did say to him, ambassador sondland, gordon, i think this is all going to blow up and here we are. >> but it was the former ambassador to ukraine and the first woman to testify in public hearings that marked one of the most memorable moments so far. a democrat suddenly recalled by the president after a month's long smear campaign lead by his personal attorney rudy giuliani. >> how could our system fail like this. how is it that foreign corrupt interests could manipulate our government. which country's interests are served when the very corrupt behavior we have been criticizing is allowed to prevail. >> her testimony sparking this remarkable response in real time from the president on twitter prompting democrats to accuse
trump of witness intimidation. >> now president trump did not tweet about karlan or any of the witnesses during their testimony today but first lady melania trump did tweet about a comment invoking the president's youngest son. she argued trump was wrong when he said article 2 of the constitution gives him the power to do anything he wants. he said one example of the difference is the constitution says no titles of mobility. so while the president can name his son barron he can't make him the barron. a minor child deserves privacy and should be kept out of politics. you should be ashamed of your very angry and obviously biased public panderring and using a child to do it. late in the hearing after this tweet, karlan apologized for having mentioned the president's son. >> thank you very much. i appreciate that. let's bring in anna. thank you for joining us. good evening here. you tweeted today the women who have testified in the
impeachment hearings are amazing and no nonsense and made you want to stand up and shout yes, girl, yes. first of all, did you? >> no, because i was -- well, i have a cold and was in bed with my dog watching the hearings and getting a constitutional law lesson which i think of all america is getting. i was really responding to that clip, to that part in the hearing where professor karlan told -- told representative doug collins that she had actually read the transcript which is is a refreshing thing to hear because do you remember how many members of congress told us after the mueller report got released that they had not read it? that they had not had time to read it? and still so many of them haven't read it? so this woman said look, i wouldn't come here and do this and testify had i not been prepared. had i not read it. i think that's a lesson for most
members of congress who have a constitutional duty to read these things and are not doing so. >> what's the message these women are sending not only to president trump and republicans but to everyone who is watching these hearings? >> man, it's conviction, principle, patriotism and they're just bad ass. they don't get pushed around. they're not afraid to speak truth. they have been attacked. they have been attacked viciously. the ambassador has been the target of a conspiracy theory which was promoted by people like roger stone and yet they show up and they take it because they're there to defend the country and defend american interests. i think they're showing a badge of courage, profiles in courage. these women and i think they have done so much to advance the cause of equality. seeing women as equals when it comes to the professional fields
of diplomacy and such. >> all right. i want to change topics now, anna. this is about joe biden. his new ad released about 30 minutes after president trump returned from london. let's watch it. >> world leaders caught on camera laughing about president trump. >> several world leaders mocking president trump. >> they're laughing at him. >> my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country. didn't expect that reaction but that's okay. >> world leaders mocking and ridiculing him for being completely off balance. >> allies are deeply worried about him. they say he's becoming increasingly isolated. something is very wrong. >> the world sees trump for what he is. insincere, ill informed, corrupt and dangerously incompetent and if we give donald trump four more years we'll have a great
deal of difficulty of ever being able to recover america's standing in the world and our capacity to bring nations together. wow, joe biden's wheel house, american leadership on the world stage. is it effective? >> i think so. i think it's effective for several reasons. first of all, because as you say this is his expertise. let's remember he was chair of foreign relations and he feels very much at home talking foreign policy. second of all, because instead of playing a circular firing squad within the democratic primary, he is aiming at the general election opponent. he is taking on donald trump. and look, part of the reason this has become such a big issue and we're still talking about it 24 hours later is because of donald trump's childish, petty and stupid reaction. his ego got bruised so boo hoo
he cancelled the press conference and he threw his toys on the ground and left the game. and left early. if he had just shru good, -- shrugged his shoulders and said so i talk too long and i get carried away, if he had poked fun at himself. if he had been a little self-depself-d self-depricating. we wouldn't be talking about it. we're talking about it right now because he stormed off. >> feel better, okay? >> thank you. >> thank you. >> well, if you have ears you probably noticed something about today's hearing. why republicans are using yelling as a tactic, next. >> you don't get to interrupt me on this time. >> four key facts have not changed, will not change, will never change. we have the transcript. there was no quid pro quo in the
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elliott. you came back! republicans have been screaming throughout the hearings. take a listen to just today. >> you couldn't have possibly actually digested the adam schiff report from yesterday or the republican response in any real way. the clock in the calendar is what is driving impeachment. >> four key facts will not change, have not changed, will not ever change. >> you don't get to interrupt me on this time. >> 16 democrats on the judiciary committee already voted to move forward on impeachment yet today
we're talking about whether the positions they have taken are constitutional? seems a little backward to me. when he tried to change his word and when then cotext is clear he is talking about the two years this country went through because of the mueller report and somehow that standard doesn't apply to the president. it's ridiculous. >> it's a tactic. the question is does it work? he is a language columnist at the wall street journal. we love having both of them. if this was how to yell in a hearing 101 how would you grade the republicans in this impeachment inquiry? >> well, we certainly did hear a lot of yelling from certain members of the committee, but, you have to keep in mind that public hearing like this, it's kind of an elaborate political performance and everyone is playing their parts. and it's interesting to see the rhetorical strategies that get used and amping up the volume was certainly one technique that
was favored by a few of the members and usually if you're trying to get your point across you might modulate your speech in terms of the volume and other qualities like tone and pitch. but we saw the members come out of the gate amped up going to 11 straight away. >> does it work? that's the question. >> well, if you were watching the hearing in real time, it might make you sort of jump up and turn your volume down a little bit but i think that it was a more calculated approach. we have seen jim jordan do that in the past. other members who are doing it, they're not thinking about people watching this in real time. they're thinking the sound bites that are going to be used on media and especially in social media these days and we saw that for instance that shouting match in which president trump who was tweeting clips of that, so
that's really what they're going for and that is their intended audience more than anything else. >> got it. amanda, you know, you wrote the book on gaslighting. is that essentially what the republicans are doing here with all the outrage and screaming trying to make it appear there's wrong doing on the part of the people they're yelling at instead of the president? >> it's a lot of performance art. what you saw today is they want to find the message that they're fighting the elistest liberals in defense of the president. he said, you know, republican senators have the expectation to act as statesmen and i thought that's not at all what republican voters are expecting these representatives to act like. they want those moments as been mentioned. that's what they are producing to feed the conservative media.
that's the whole purpose of them turning up the volume. there's probably a more important fact that they're going for and that's to discome b -- discombobulate the witness. someone is yelling at you put yourself in the position of those witnesses. they sit there for 8 hours. they have to be ready to respond for all of that time. meanwhile these congressmen have to give 5 minute performances. sometimes you can get somebody riled up and early on in the hearings. and then later on she got worn down. i think that's what lead to the unwise joke about barron trump. these guys were going at her. i think she got comfortable and she wanted to give a little dig
and it didn't land well and now that's all they're talking about on fox news. >> because the joke was intended to maybe be a zinger for the president but then she invoked the son which is never good. leave the kids out of it. the screaming tactic that was on full display during the kavanaugh hearings. this is justice kavanaugh and senator lindsey graham. watch this. >> what you want to do is destroy this guy's life, hold this seat open and hope you win in 2020, you have said that. this is the most unethical sham since i have been in politics. you had no intention of protecting president ford. none. this is not a job interview, this is hell. this is going to destroy the ability of good people to come forward because of this crap. >> wow. i mean, listen, that was clearly a performance. you can see that was acting. graham cemented his relationship
with the president in that moment. is this about appeasing an audience of one and did that work for him? >> if you're talking about that audience of one and you're just looking for confirmation from the president. for sure. you can see the republicans are playing by new rules of political rhetoric in the trump era where there is one person above all that you're trying to appease in the way you speak. and you get the positive feedback from the president in his twitter feed as well so it's an endless cycle and they just end up getting amped up more and more until they're screaming without any kind of modulation because they figure that's the way to get the president's attention. >> well, amanda, i think you're
right. i think the people at home probably like it. i wonder if they liked jim jordon not wearing a jacket in the halls of congress for such a serious proceeding. but, you know, who am i. >> i won't yell good-bye. >> bye, thank you. >> bye. >> the impeachment investigation has been filled with phone calls and now there's more. we're going to dig into that mystery next. mplative synth mus) - [narrator] forget about vacuuming for up to a month. shark iq robot deep-cleans and empties itself into a base you can empty once a month. and unlike standard robots that bounce around, it cleans row by row. if it's not a shark, it's just a robot.
rudy giuliani facing new scrutiny for, wait for it, phone calls. maybe not surprising for somebody that's accidentally dialled and texted reporters but documents show these calls were apparently no accident and were between the president's lawyer and a mysterious person identified only as -1. hello one and all. you first, there is a precedent for that number being connected to president trump. how will house investigators figure out who the dash one phone number is in these call logs? who they belong to? well, there is and that precedent came during the roger stone trial which i covered.
it was during their investigation of the contacts between roger stone and candidate donald truch. th -- donald trump. there was a phone call made from the president's home, donald trump's home here in new york city to roger stone and it came up as -1. so they had to go back and look and pull more records from donald trump and try to peace it all together. and if the fbi starts looking into this, do they go ahead and take the next step and start pulling white house records. >> it's ironic that the president was known as individual one and now in this it's possible that he might be
caller -1. don't you think? >> minus one. >> yeah. i saw that and was amused by that as well. you look at all of these contacts that giuliani had and we learned more about them from this house intelligence committee report and it's a sign that we're staring at tip of the iceberg in terms of understanding the interconnectedness of this effort to push ukraine into validating trump's conspiracy theories about 2016 and joe biden but it's very significant. we have pompeo wrapped up in this. we have now nunez. john bolton is, you know, a colleague or at least had a call with giuliani as well. ambassador sondland said everyone is in the loop. boy was he correct and we keep seeing more evidence of that and i think, you know, obviously the
president now likely is part of that if he's minus one. so we'll find out but i think it presents an interesting question for house democrats. and that is what more are they going to invest effort and time in to discovering about how many people in the administration knew and knew what and when they knew. >> i'm glad that you mentioned house democrats because the congressman from house intel told me last night that they're still working their way through new materials that have been turned over to them. and that left harness turned over material and his attorney is willing to turnover more. could those be the type of materials the house is vetting? >> i think so. and, you know, i still think that, you know, this isn't to say that the impeachment of the president should be held up because i do think there's some
urgency for a variety of reasons but we haven't heard from -- we haven't heard from john bolton. we haven't heard from pompeo or so many of the players. the white house attorneys involved in this and others there's just so much more to learn. the white house hasn't complied with subpoenas related to the investigation. i still think that those fights are worth the house democrats fighting. i think for the sake of the separations of powers that are so critical for defending our system of self-government, congress and the house democrats in this case need to continue to fight that fight. i'm not sure that it means the impeachment of the president should be held up. because there is some urgency here, we're trying to protect our 2020 elections but the american people through their represen tiffs in congress do need over time to get all the
facts here. >> i know you want to weigh in on this but stick around and we'll do it on the other side of the break. facing questions not only over the phone calls but also a possible overseas trip this week. is he in ukraine? like you, my hands are everything to me. but i was diagnosed with dupuytren's contracture. and it got to the point where things i took for granted got tougher to do. thought surgery was my only option. turns out i was wrong.
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the omb as they call it. you remember that omb head mick mulvaney was involved in the process of holding up the military aid to rudy giuliani. by the way, he is the acting chief of staff as well. he says, i don't remember calling omb and not about military aid. never knew anything about it. okay? he also told the "times" that he is an expert on so many things, it could have been some very esoteric subject. those calls are going to be something else that house investigators are going to look into, right? >> yeah, they are and they're trying to. i think they need a lot more information in terms of figuring out where these calls original naited. the thing is whoever was talking to rudy giuliani at the time is now potentially a witness. not so much for congress but also for federal investigators who are looking into some of this activity. it's very convenient for rudy giuliani to say he doesn't remember, but the phone records don't lie. it's there. i think the fact that congress was able to get all these phone
records so quickly and kept it so quiet, they didn't tell anyone they had this. they sat on this. they worked through this. they questioned witnesses. they had all this information. think about it. during this hearing, they had all of this information, never said anything about it, and then they put out their report. how surprised i'm certain some people were that they had these records. but there is a lot more to do. they need to figure out exactly who he was talking to, and there are ways to do that. it's just a question or not of not whether they want to go there. >> i want to talk to you about this "washington post" reporting, new details about the attorney general william barr's investigation into the origins of the surveillance of trump's 2016 campaign. may not be panning out exactly the way president trump would like, shimon. >> the conspiracy theorists who were betting everything on this basically to somehow say that the fbi was wrong in opening this russia investigation, that there were people out to get the president. well, tonight's report from "the
washington post" says that the inspector general went and spoke with don durham, who is doing this independent investigation of the intelligence community, and they asked -- the inspector general asked him, you know, did you have any concern? have you found anything to say that somehow the campaign was set up by someone in the intelligence community. and john durham, according to "the washington post," they have found no information to indicate there was some kind of conspiracy, that there was some kind of motive here to set up the trump campaign into some kind of a trap by using an informant, specifically someone who was a professor who had contact with george papadopoulos. and essentially what happens is the inspector general is going to say in their report that we reached out to john durham. john durham says they didn't find anything, and we didn't find anything. so what now? >> okay. well, listen, i wanted to did you about giuliani, evan, traveling to ukraine this week to meet with several former ukrainian prosecutors in an
effort to defend president trump against house democrats' impeachment inquiry. i mean what is he up to? i only have just a couple seconds left. what's the heck is going on? >> mm-hmm. okay. well, very briefly, first of all, they're doubling down on the conspiracy theory about biden because i think they need a counternarrative to what's coming out of congress, something for trump's base to believe in as they head into the senate part of this process and as they head into 2020. the other thing i'll say is that it shows that trump and his team still believe, i believe, that biden is their primary opponent, the opponent that poses the most danger to trump's ability to be re-elected. the last thing i'll say is that we learned from fiona hill that this conspiracy theory about the ukrainians being responsible for the 2016 hacking was really something that the russian intelligence services have been pushing and now trump's allies on the hill have been pushing as
well. i think we have to start to ask ourselves what the origin of this biden conspiracy theory is. >> yeah. >> trump has packaged them together, continues to push them. >> out of time. >> is this something that russian intel is pushing as well? >> i got to go, everybody. i'm out of time. listen, now the intel, the i.g. report, and now the durham report, origins, origins, origins turning into conspiracy theories. thank you both. i appreciate it. thanks for watching. our coverage continues. (contemplative synth music)
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