tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN December 6, 2019 4:00pm-5:00pm PST
positive force in a world where cynics abound, to provide information to people when it wasn't available before, to offer those who want it a choice. >> his words are as important today as ever. "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. ♪ the white house officially refusing to take part in house impeachment proceedings. but wasn't it team trump that was complaining about being left out and asking for their lawyers to have a presence? plus, more breaking news. the gunman identified as a saudi military trainee opening fire at a naval air station in pensacola killing at least three people. was it a terror attack? and why is president trump responding using saudi talking points? will republicans listen? let's go out front.
♪ good evening. i'm erin burnett. out front tonight the breaking news no defense. president trump's legal team will not participate in house impeachment proceedings. democrats had offered the president and his team the chance to attend the hearings, ask questions, raise objections, request consequences, and make a closing statement. but trump said no. minutes before the deadline tonight yes or no, defend or not, white house lawyer pat cipollone sending a authority two-paragraph letter writing in part, quote, your impeachment inquiry is completely baseless and has violated basic principles of due process and fund mebl fairness. well, nadler fired back saying having declined this opportunity he cannot claim the process is unfair. house intelligence committee adam schiff weighing in saying the white house said they wanted open hearings, not closed, and then they didn't want those. then they said they wanted to participate in the proceedings and now they don't. all they want is to hide the
president's serious misconduct. it's not working. those are the partisan points. but what are they trying to hide? it is a fair question because president trump's own words are out there. he himself once said just a couple years ago on twitter, quote, if you are innocent do not remain silent. you look guilty as hell. that's president trump's own words. so tonight he is choosing to remain own silent in his own impeachment trial. and that is incredibly ironic because he had explicitly asked for this, for his lawyers to have a chance to defend him. >> they don't give us any fair play. it's the most unfair situation people have seen. no lawyers, you can't have lawyers, you can't speak, you can't do anything. the way they are doing it, they've taken away our rights. we literally have no rights on the other side. we have no rights, we have no anything. and it's a very unfair situation. >> so, tonight the democrats give trump what he asked for, offering trump's lawyers a
chance to participate, and then trump says no? so what is he really saying? well, again, since he is not going to mount a defense, all we have are these words from his own past. if you're innocent, do not remain silent. you look guilty as hell. so what is the white house thinking on this? >> essentially what they are saying right now is they want these house democrats to either end this impeachment inquiry or get it over with so they can go ahead and move on to the senate where they feel they are going to have a better chance of success in really mounting some kind of a viable defense here. if you read this short two-paragraph letter from the white house counsel to house democrats, it doesn't explicitly state that they are not going to participate on monday. but we are being told by white house officials that's exactly what they are saying. now you're right. for weeks the president, as you just laid out, and the other white house officials have been saying this is unfair because we can't even have an attorney in the room. now that they do have this opportunity they are not using it. they are saying no we are not going to send anyone to that
second hearing on monday. but essentially what we are being told behind the scenes, the thinking is that it's too late and they don't think it would actually be worth it to send someone like pat cipollone to go into this hearing room. a lot of what they are couching that is on is what nancy pelosi said yesterday, recommending that they move forward with the articles of impeachment. and it really wouldn't make a difference. and she wouldn't make a comment like that if she didn't feel like they had the votes to move forward with this. the spokesman said the president is ready to have a fight. but, erin, what we are seeing and what we are hearing from what house speaker nancy pelosi said yesterday, he doesn't really have an option here. >> thank you very much, kaitlyn. out front now a member of the house judiciary committee, i appreciate your time congresswoman. are you surprised at all that the white house declined to participate in monday's hearing and their final excuse is, well, nancy pelosi has made up her mind so it doesn't matter what
we say. >> it's really unprecedented. nixon participated, clinton participated. this white house is now after crying foul on process for so long saying that they are not going to participate. and it is, i think, sad. it is frankly, you know, it doesn't say anything about what the president has as a defense. if you saw the hearing on wednesday, the republicans did not contest the facts. the facts are uncontested. this president abused his power, tried to coerce a foreign ally into interfering within our elections and withholding aid. that is a serious abuse of power. it is also a serious undermining of our elections. if the president has a defense, he should present it. >> so why do you think they aren't showing up? >> i really don't think that they have a defense. remember that the number one witness for this full thing was the president of the united states when he went out there
and he told us at the beginning that he did this. and so he is the smoking gun here, and i think they have no other defense to present. otherwise they would be presenting it. >> all right. so republicans on your committee are trying to mount the defense instead, right? and they have requested eight witnesses. they want adam schiff presumably to talk about the whistle-blower. they want hunter biden, they want the whistle-blower. will you all approve any of those requests? >> no. i believe that this is the similar list to what they gave to adam schiff with the exception of chairman schiff. and this is, again, it just shows that this republican party has decided that they are all in for the president regardless of what abuse he has done, regardless of how he undermines our constitution and destroys the checks and balances. and i just think it's very, very sad. i know you are going to have republicans on who dwernl from
what the party is doing right now. the former senator from my home state, washington state, a republican, broke with his party in the last impeachment. and he wrote an article saying republicans should impeach this president. and i think that -- we just need republicans to list to that. >> and we will hear from him later this hour. i want to ask you though about some democrats, two freshmen are pushing back against adding mueller evidence to the articles of impeachment which i know you've got to decide. do you go more broad? and here they are. >> going through with impeachment. previous to this ukraine matter. so with the understanding that i'm not going to entertain any hypotheticals, i was very serious when i came out and said that, very serious. >> i think we need to stay focused on ukraine and that's what it's about. >> are you concerned you will lose democratic votes if you go beyond ukraine? >> well, i think nothing has been decided. but what i would say is this. ukraine is much worse than
mueller because the president is in office. at the same time ukraine is a pattern of conduct that relies on things that mueller found in his investigations, obstruction of congress, obstruction of justice, and abuse of power. we need to make sure we don't define it so narrowly that we don't give the senate what it needs for the trial to be able to really make the case that this president is just continuing to do this over and over again. >> so congresswoman, a democrat told cnn today on background and i want to quote this person. for me right now i am struggling to see how the evidence supports impeachment at this point. does it concern you to hear that there has been 12 witnesses, two weeks of hearings? this person obviously doesn't want to be named. but a moderate democrat is the best i can do to describe it for you. do you have any concern about where you stand right now in terms of the eventual outcome in the house of impeachment when you hear things like that? >> i don't think so. i think this is a very difficult moment for everybody.
i don't think that any of us moderate conservative, however you want to describe us want to be in this position. this is a sober moment for the country. we don't want to be impeaching a president. and i think everybody is going home every night thinking about their oath, thinking seriously about everything in front of us. and perhaps, you know, it's a big -- we should be concerned about whatever decision we are taking. at the same time we have to uphold our oath to the constitution. because we send a message not just to this president but every future president that you can abuse power with no checks and balances, and if we do that, erin, we do not live in a democracy anymore. we live in a monarchy. >> congresswoman, i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. and next, breaking news. trump ignoring stern warnings using his unsecured personal cell phone for all sorts of calls including incredibly sensitive ones. why is he compromising national security? the fbi investigation into a deadly shooting at naval air station pensacola is now global
tonight. we have the identity, a man identified as saudi arabian military trainee training with the u.s. military, opened fire. at least three people dead at his hands today. and republicans are continuing tonight to dodge some very basic questions. >> how come he never mentioned that in his two phone calls with zelensky? >> he talked about the vice president pence talked about it when he met with him. >> but not answering the question. why not? what are you afraid of it? ♪ can my side be firm?
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this news just break. multiple officials are telling cnn that president trump is still using his personal unsecured cell phone to make phone calls. this despite repeated warnings, he's been told again and again by the best intelligence agency on the planet that his personal cell phone is a major national security risk. he doesn't care. this is notable after the house impeachment inquiry revealed many calls between trump's personal lawyer rudy giuliani and the white house with no indication that the calls were encrypted or protected from any kind of spying. i'm going to go back to kaitlyn collins at the white house who is breaking this news. this is pretty incredible. what are you learning about what he's doing and why? >> reporter: it's fascinating to see how something the president has been warned about since essentially day one in office, erin, is still a concern that officials are having today. this concern that the president has continued to use his personal device to make phone calls, despite warnings from top officials that, no, he shouldn't
be doing so because of course the primary concern is that it could open him up and he could be subject to foreign surveillance. this has been a concern of theirs since he took office. but it's been resurrected in recent days because of this impeachment inquiry. and the testimony you've seen from officials like gordon sondland, the ambassador to the european union who only admitted he made a call to the president while sitting in a restaurant where calls are intercepted, something that was not done on a secure line, which was the typical protocol for the ambassador especially to the president of the united states. but also this recent report from house democrats of these calls that rudy giuliani had with multiple officials, some people outside the white house, some people inside the house though. it's still unclear who it is that rudy giuliani was speaking with. but essentially what it suggests from the fact that house democrats were able to get a call log of those calls that rudy giuliani made is that they were not encrypted or not made on a secure line or otherwise they likely wouldn't have been able to get them. but despite time and time again
the president being warned by top officials not to do so, even in recent weeks he has continued to use his personal device to make phone calls. it really just adds another twist to all of this that we are learning from this impeachment inquiry. >> all right, kaitlan, thank you. it's pretty incredible when you hear that reporting even in recent weeks. cnn political respondent abbie phillip, former director of the nixon presidential library. and asha. asha, let me start with you. people who are looking out for the president and his own staff are saying don't do this. obviously he's been told not to do it by the entire u.s. intelligence community. and yet he's doing it. he is even in recent weeks using his own personal cell phone to make calls. why, do you think? >> so, erin, there are three big reasons why you don't want the president doing this. one is that it's a national security risk as has already been reported. when the president is making these kinds of unsecured phone
calls, other countries can monitor them and they can actually be used as leverage or, you know, as compramat. the second reason is that it prevents our own executive agencies from doing their job if they don't know what the president is saying to other people what his motives are, they can't design our military policy, our diplomatic policy. but i will also add that there is a democratic problem here, which is that we are built on a pillar of accountability. that's why we have things like the presidential records act and call logs. when the american voter does not know what the president is doing in his official capacity, they cannot make an informed vote. and he is basically flouting his fiduciary duty which is an abuse of power and essentially what the impeachment proceedings come down to. >> what could possibly motivate him to do this? >> well, i think two things. this is based on past practice,
his practice. one is he doesn't trust the u.s. government even though he's at the head of it. he doesn't trust the intelligence community. he doesn't trust the law enforcement community. so he -- >> he is worried about americans spying more than foreigns spying. >> he doesn't want to use the situation room landline because of who's going to listen in. he doesn't really want to use a cell phone that the intelligence community gave to him because maybe it's fixed so that they can monitor him. so part of it is his basic paranoia. the other is that he doesn't want to be transparent throughout his career he's not been that transparent. for all of his extroverted behavior, he's hidden things. he would pretend he was somebody else when he called people up. >> or he would connect these people on the phone and pretend he wasn't on the line. >> so choosing his own phone is his way of controlling
information. now the point asha makes is so important. this is not just a matter of presidents being president, following rules. the rules have a reason. one of the reasons we've seen in this entire impeachment inquiry, which is that the russians are very interested in what we are doing to help the ukrainians. the russians really want to make a mess of that. they want us not to help the ukrainians. they want us to stop making it possible for ukraine to defend its eastern border. so they can hear the president putting pressure through various channels on this very new and somewhat weak ukrainian president. it's great for russia. russians collect cell phone data that is not encrypted like many countries do. the president has to assume that russia now has the jump on zelensky. why would we as americans, why would our national security
system want that to happen? we don't, but the doesn't seem to care. >> when we get to the point here about ukraine, you've got what the president was doing, and obviously it would appear perhaps on a personal device, rudy giuliani just left he was digging for dirt on hunter biden, joe biden, had a meeting with lawmakers who pushed unfounded conspiracy theories involving not just the biden, but also the debunked theory that ukraine interfered in the 2016 u.s. presidential election. giuliani is doing exactly what trump is on the verge of being impeached for, he's doing it right now, seeking help to interfere for the presidential election. democrats and republicans, everybody knows about it. abby, it's a pretty incredible moment. >> it shows the boldness of the president's allies and how they're approaching this new phase that rudy giuliani is completely unfazed by everything
happening around him and is in fact, doubling down. i do think that there are a lot of risks here for republicans as they move forward and for the president and, you know, base on our reporting, white house aides are not thrilled with the fact that giuliani continues to do these kinds of things in part because the people that he's dealing with in ukraine do not necessarily have great backgrounds. we've already learned from the hearings that have happened so far on capitol hill that it was widely believed that some of these people that giuliani was dealing with over the summer was the people that the u.s. embassy in ukraine knew to be corrupt individuals in ukraine. >> they were known to be people who were not trustworthy and even now the washington post is reporting that one of the individuals that he's been talking to on this latest trip is someone who has -- who was educated at a kgb school in the early 1990s. so there are a lot of issues
here and giuliani is unfazed and part that's partly, like the president, he and giuliani are swimming in the conspiracy pool of theories and it might be problematic as we go into the next phase of the impeachment. >> the problem is if he's doing these things, seeking foreign help and in the u.s. election which is exactly what he's doing rid now, okay? and the president of the united states is directing it and that is impeachable and he's doing it right now and asha, giuliani this week admitted he is not freelancing in ukraine. he says he's there for president trump. here he is. >> what's the ukraine trip all about? >> well, i can't really describe it. i can't even confirm it. all i can tell you is that i am doing today, all day and all night maybe, what i've been doing for a year and a half. i'm representing my client. >> the question is he's representing his client. so does his client know about it
because that really matters and asha, here is what white house spokesperson hogan gidly refused to deny that trump knows. >>. >> is the president aware of what rudy giuliani is doing in ukraine? >> that's a question between rudy and the president. i haven't spoken with him about that. >> i haven't spoken with him about that directly, but obviously rudy giuliani can speak for himself. >> i mean, pretty incredible. hogan doesn't deny it and doesn't want to touch it. trump may be directing this right now. >> yeah. basically what giuliani is doing is undercutting trump's defense which is that he acted in good faith and in the interest of the united states. giuliani is acting as his personal attorney without using official channels and leaving no official record which basically proves the democrats' point at this stage. so this is not good for the president. >> it is pretty incredible. >> thank you all very much.
i appreciate it. >> and next, new details of a deadly shooting in a pensacola navy base, two people killed as a saudi arabian employee, the investigation under way tonight and changing the subject. republicans want to talk about anything, but this. >> is it ever appropriate for a president to ask a foreign country to investigate a political rival? thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance. ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor is for postmenopausal women or for men with hr+/her2- metastatic breast cancer, as the first hormonal based therapy. ibrance plus letrozole significantly delayed
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breaking news, a global investigation under way after a saudi national killed three people at the naval air station pensacola a florida. the fbi is now investigating the shooting as a possible terror attack. pentagon says the gunman had been in the united states for two years and was training with the u.s. military. he was a member of the saudi military, but here, part of the team training with americans. according to the defense department, there are more than 5,000 students from overseas training with the u.s. military and nearly 1,000 of them are saudi. natasha chen is out front. tonight, four people are dead including the shooter after an attack on a pensacola naval base by a member of the saudi military and authorities are working to determine the motive. >> there are questions about this individual being a foreign national and being a part of the saudi air force and then to be here training on our soil. >> reporter: two law enforcement sources tell cnn the shooter has been identified as mohammed al
shamrani. president trump who has stood by the saudi government had a message. >> the saudi people are greatly angered by the barbaric actions of the shooter and that this person in no way, shape or form represents the feelings of the saudi people who love the american people so much. >> reporter: officials say al shamrani was part of an aviation training program on base and weapons are not allowed. >> you can't bring a weapon on base. >> reporter: eight others were injured in the attack that began before 8:00 a.m. eastern time. among the wounded, two deputies from the escambia county sheriff's office who exchanged with the shooter. >> the two deputies who engaged the suspect, one was shot in the arm and one was shot in the knee. >> reporter: authorities caution it is still in the very early stages. >> this doesn't happen in escambia county. it doesn't happen in pensacola. it doesn't happen to members and
friends who are in the united states navy, but it has and so for now we are here to pick up the pieces. >> secretary of defense mark esper said the gunman was second lieutenant in flight training. lieutenants asked esper whether the vetting process should be changed or how we bring -- he did want to look into the procedures and he emphasized we need to find out what happened here and what the motivation was,ier irn. >> nat ash a thank you very much. i want to go now to the man you heard briefly there, escambia county sheriff, david amerimorg joining us on the phone. can you tell us the latest in the investigation right now? >> we are in a support role. the fbi is the lead agency and information is starting to come in. of course, they're starting to confirm more and more things. unfortunately, at this juncture,
we've been asked not to release information and we've confirmed the health and welfare of the deputies and we know the fbi has secured the areas on base where the shooter was actually residing and of course, they've taken possession of laptops and cell phones and that sort of thing and they're also in the process of interviewing any and all who had contact with the shooter. we're expecting a more detailed briefing tomorrow where i believe things are going to be prepared to release more information and i know they'll be in contact with the director of the fbi and coordinating their effort as to what they're willing to release. >> congressman matt gates, his district includes pensacola. he calls this a serious failure in the vetting process, and obviously the fbi has the lead right now and they are investigating, we understand, whether this was terror related. do you think that there is a vetting problem? >> well, you know, any time we deal with, you know, individuals
coming to our country from another country, we -- you know, we tend to as americans we want to see in others, individuals and countries that we almost forget that they're the same as we are, and the reality of it is they're not. their processes that they go through for selection for military members and their background checks is extremely difficult in some countries to ensure the validity of documents that are presented of another country and the whole process itself is problem at being so i share in the congressman's concern about the vetting process and it most assuredly is one of those things that our federal partners need to look at. i think if there's a failing that has occurred that process with this individual, it will come to light, i'm sure. >> chef morgan, i appreciate your time tonight. thank you, sir. >> you bet. with us now julia kayyem.
this was someone who was embraced and had been vetted through the process that exists, nearly a thousand saudis are in similar positions in bases across this country. now they're wondering whether this was possibly terror related. what was your take given right now what you heard the sheriff say that the head of the fbi has been briefed and the fbi the lead agency tonight. >> obviously, the question is, of course, motivation and here's what's interesting about this case, is he's been here for two years. so the vetting process clearly took place two years ago and what the dod vets for his drug use, criminal behavior or terror nexus, that is a defense department review and we're not dependent on the saudis for that or any other country. once the review happens, the person is then considered vetted, but he's been here for two years and i'm being careful for motivation at this stage because a lot happens in two years.
was he radicalized by something abroad and was there something going on here, access to the gun, of course, becomes easier the longer you're here. so we'll be careful about motivation, and i do want to say one thing, though. people are saying why are foreign nationals coming to military bases. there are 5,000 foreign nationals and the overwhelming number of saudis is something that was surprised with. >> nearly 20% of the total are just from saudi. >> and the saudis are paying, and the president sort of went out of his way to essentially do everything but apologize that the saudis had to apologize, right? in other words, at the very least, given the situation with the saudis right now you just keep quiet because we don't know what is going on yet, and so the president felt compelled. >> let me play that moment again, julia, that you're talking about. here's what the president said about the shooting today. saudi arabia's response to it. here he is. >> the king said that the saudi
people are greatly angered by the barbaric actions of the shooter, and that this person in no way, shape or form represents the feelings of the saudi people who love the american people so much. >> and you know, juliette, to your point, let me just remind people what he said about the brutal murder of the washington post columnist jamal khashoggi. >> i hate the crime. i hate what's done. i hate the cover-up and i will tell you this, the crown prince hates it more than i do, and they have vehemently denied it. >> going against his own intelligence agencies there, but those two statements are quite similar. >> they are, and this just gets to the question of motivation and always with this president when it comes to the saudis and when it comes to the russians and it starts to get tiresome after a while. it would be something to say simply of course, that he does not represent all of saudi arabia neither a mexican would
represent all of mexico and i would and why he bends over backward a million times to defend saudi arabia's egregious behavior. >> thank you very much, juliette. next, dodging the issue. the republicans having problems answering very basic questions from our dogged manu raju. >> sir? and two former u.s. senators, both republicans calling out their party for not standing up and impeaching president trump. this piece is talking to me. yeah? so what do you see? i see an unbelievable opportunity. i see best-in-class platforms and education. i see award-winning service, and a trade desk full of experts, available to answer your toughest questions.
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>> tonight, the art of the dodge. top republicans refusing to answer the most basic questions about the impeachment investigations. take a look at what they said or rather, what they did not say to our manu raju. >> is it ever appropriate for a president to ask a foreign country to investigate a political rival? >> okay. let's stick to the facts. the president asked the country to participate in a case that happened in 2016. that's 100% legal. thank you very much.
>> should he have asked for a biden investigation? >> that's almost like saying why don't you frame your questions differently? >> how come you never mention that in the two phone calls with zelensky? >> he talked about the vice president -- he talked about it -- >> he didn't talk about zelensky. >> he talked about other things with zelensky, obviously. >> jim jordan can do better than that, except for that he doesn't have anything better to work with because the facts are a problem. manu, this is just the tip of the iceberg and you've talked to all of them and when they say the president cares about corruption you present the question why didn't they merge contin mention it once? >> you asked the questions and then dodging. >> i've asked the republican members about the specific facts in the case, and there are no real good answers for a lot of the republicans because a lot of them don't necessarily want to
defend the president asking a foreign power to investigate his political rival and they also don't want to criticize the president and get on his wrong side of his twitter feed. so they may criticize him privately and publicly they don't want to say a whole lot and they pivot to another attack which is about the process and adam schiff and about what the president ultimately didn't do anything wrong and what you will probably hear also is that particularly in the senate and the senate republicans and they don't want to weigh in over whether what the president did is appropriate or not. they're not being asked about appropriateness and they're being asked about whether it was impeachable and they are two different standards and while they might not think it's appropriate it's impeachable and that's what you will hear in the coming weeks. >> next. more than 500 legal scholars. they say the evidence is overwholeming. ( ♪ )
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new tonight. more than 500 legal experts signing a letter to congress saying president trump -- the letter says in part there is overwhelming evidence that president trump betrayed his oath of office. his conduct is precisely the type of threat to our democracy that the founders feared when they included the remedy of impeachment. tonight, two republicans who supported the impeachment of president richard nixon calling out their party, giving gop lawmakers this warning. it's time to pick country over your party. out front now, slade gorton, a former republican senator and william cohen, a former republican senator and congressman who also served as defense secretary, and i appreciate both of you so much being with me. secretary cohen, you were a freshman member of congress on the house judiciary committee when you voted to support two of
the three articles of impeachment over president nixon. you broke with your party and you were under enormous pressure from president nixon not to do what you did. you were willing to lose re-election over your decision. do you think any republican in congress will do the same when it comes to president trump? >> well, i doubt if there will be any in the house. perhaps one or two. there may be one or two democrats who don't vote for impeachment on the resolution of the articles. when it gets to the senate, i would guess it's going to be pretty hard to get many republicans who support the articles and i think there will be several who will look at the facts and determine that, indeed, president trump violated his oath of office by trying to engage a foreign power to intervene in our electoral system, not for the first time, but for actually the third time when he was candidate trump it was a russia, are you listening and then it was recently, china are you listening and with ukraine, as i said before, you
better be listening if you want your funds to go to help defend you, i need something from you and that is that they help gain some dirt on joe biden. that, to me, is a clear, convincing and i think overwhelming case i think it would support an article of impeachment. >> i think it's important to say there's an outside factor in this and that's public opinion. if public opinion swings towards favoring getting rid of the president then republican senators will reflect on that. it's not there at this point. that's a very real possibility. it's unfortunate that the democrats haven't tried to appeal as broadly as necessary for that but they may. i think it's an open question. >> top republicans on two committees running the impeachment process are frankly, calling this whole process a joke and sham is the word they use. let me play some of the top republicans right now and what they're saying.
>> this is a sham. >> trying to put a ribbon on it doesn't make it any less of a sham. >> what do you say to them? >> i would say listen to the witnesses. listen to the professionals who came before the congress to swear under oath their testimony that indeed a plan was under way to remove that professional, put in a political appointee as the ambassador to the eu to run things with rudy giuliani. it was weeks, if not nont monmo the planning to remove the professionals and put political appointees in and carry out saying if you want the support then come up with an announcement that you'll investigate joe biden's son. i think it's pretty clear and for republicans to say it's a sham, you're saying all those people who came are lying under oath. that they don't know what they are talking about.
this is all a hoax they have participated in creating to get at president trump. i think you have to go back and look at the entire spectrum from the mueller report. there's a pattern of saying i'm not beholden to anyone. the law doesn't apply to me. i can't be charged with a crime. i can't be investigated. i'm under no obligation under any circumstance to account to the congress of the united states. that to me in itself is impoochabimpooc impeachab impeachable. >> you were one of the first republicans to call for nixon's resignati resignation. you said you were reluctant to do so and you followed the fact. you write, republicans don't fight the process. follow the facts where ever they lead, and put country above party. yet you hear republicans now calling it a sham. how does that make you feel? >> makes me feel sorry for the people who are tieing themselves to heavily to the president at
this point. they should be waiting to hear all of the facts. i think it's very easy for them to determine that the president did this, did what he's accused of. did what he's going to be accused of with articles of impeachment. it's one thing to say we don't think that arises to the importance to take a man out of the presidential office. it's quite another to denounce it in advance when you don't know what's going to be presented to you. >> secretary cohen, when you were in the house judiciary committee during the debate about articles of impeecachment for nixon, you said this. >> an impeachment proceeding will tear this country apart. to say it will tear the country apart is a proposition i cannot accept. i think what would tear the country apart would be to turn our backs on the facts and the responsibility to ascertain them. >> are republicans at this point
violating their constitutional duty? >> well, in my opinion they are. i think they have an asbestos lu -- absolute duty to look at what the facts are. the facts are clear. i think there's a burden on the part of the democrats to explain why it's in our national security risk why we not allow the president to go unaccountsed for this. many people say why ukraine. ukraine is on the front lines of the defense against an aggressive russia. russia is not our friend. russia is our adversary. by supporting them and preventing russia and others from aggression we're from a military point of view expanding our defense perimeter. >> both you have are republicans and neither one of you supported trump in 2016.
do you think any of the democrats running for president would be better than four more years of president trump, secretary cohen? >> the answer is yes. >> my answer is i hope we have a different republican nominee. >> i guess that's your hope for the out come of this whole proce process. i appreciate both of your time so very much tonight. thank you. >> thank you. >> my pleasure. >> we'll see if republicans listen to what they are hearing from senior statesmen like those in their party who did stand up to their party when they had the chance in congress. we'll be right back. cdc guidance recommends topical pain relievers first... like salonpas patch large. it's powerful, fda-approved to relieve moderate pain for up to 12 hours, yet non-addictive and gentle on the body. salonpas. it's good medicine. hisamitsu. only roomba i7+ uses two multi-surface rubber brushes. ♪ and picks up more pet hair than other robot vacuums. and the filter captures 99% of dog and cat allergens.
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"ac 360" starts right now. good evening. after repeatedly teasing throughout the impeachment inquiry that maybe, possibly, he could consider participating directly in the process, president trump and his attorneys have done the only thing they and many top officials have ever done in this white house which is, in this case, refuse to cooperate. the white house was on a 5:00 p.m. deadline imposed by the judiciary committee and they met it with another round of fireworks. white house counsel said quote, you're impeachment inquirely is baseless and violated principles of due process and fundamental fairness. he called it a charade and reckless abuse of power. then adam schiff wrote the white house said they wanted open