tv Cuomo Prime Time CNN January 27, 2020 10:00pm-11:00pm PST
chris cuomo here, you're watching special coverage of the trump impeachment trial, day two now over. the defense team, fast and furious attacks own the bidens. acknowledgment that, yes, bolton could have some dirt on trump. and the return of ken starr, but he's in reverse, now. let's bring in some great minds to break it all down. michael, good to see you here, sir. >> how are you? >> how surprised were you, let's
move it around, what jumped out at me, shocked, actually, to hear jane raskin, by all accounts competent attorney, by many accounts the key to keeping the president out of trouble in the russia probe. she says today, rudy giuliani, rudy who? you think he's important? >> mr. giuliani is just a minor player. that shiny object designed to distract you. senators, i urge you most respectfully, do not be distracted. >> michael, the president said in the perfect phone call, rudy giuliani, that's the guy. and zelensky says, rudy giuliani, that's the guy. and the president says, talk to rudy giuliani. he's a great mayor. he'll be helpful.
everybody involved, whether positively or negatively, points to rudy giuliani. the president's excuse for why he wouldn't have told lev parnas the things he told him on videotape was, i wouldn't have said it to him. i would have told it to rudy giuliani. how is rudy giuliani a side piece? >> he's not. he features more prominently than jane argued. i think she was trying to say that giuliani began his quest for information about ukrainian involvement in the presidential election of 2016 in order to help trump defend himself against the russia collusion allegations. it's from that, that all of his activities stem. what she was trying to say was, there was a legitimate basis for him to be in ukraine and asking about these things, and it
wasn't just a drop in, in 2019, on a political errand. i think that's the point she was trying to make. >> professor, when you teach law students, you use the from the beginning analysis. even if it's this bogus crowdstrike server thing, which doesn't exist, he went into much more than that. he said, i want to get rid of the ambassador openly, he was using lev parnas. can this have sway as an argument? >> i'm not sure it can. it will have sway in some quarters. part of the objective for the white house lawyers is to provide cover for the republican senators to acquit the president. but if you look at it more
closely, you find out just tossing him off as a bit player is taking too much liberty with the facts. giuliani was carrying out the president's wishes, and those were to freeze the aid to provide leverage to get a favor out of the ukrainian president. he said it himself in a few different forms. >> okay. that's that one, under the heading of something for everybody. another thing that happened today, they went after the bidens. they say, well, the house managers opened the door to that. that's a term of art in evidence law that we don't need to deal with here, because there's no rules of evidence here. they did it because they wanted to. how effective was it? >> it's not effective for people who are paying attention, but they've been talking about the bidens from day one.
and it's effective for the people who want something else to look at. we're focusing on the president's conduct, the president's behavior, the president's abuse of power. if you say, the president was just trying to look at this problem, it's a distraction technique. for people looking for that to be their reason for acquittal, it's effective. >> asha, the idea that robert ray put out there, all right, it wasn't a perfect phone call. but no crimes, no crimes even alleged. was that the most persuasive sell that you heard? i know it's a low bar. >> i didn't think it was particularly persuasive. but i think he was hoping for a moment where maybe president trump wasn't watching and he could throw that in, wink-wink, to the republicans, we all know
this is not great. i also wonder if precisely because he's said this in public on your show, and he knows there's all these video clips, he probably needs to stay honest without being discredited by the house managers if they bring that up in the question and answer. but i think that the question isn't whether it's a perfect phone call or not. it's whether he was trying to leverage his authority for something of personal benefit. and rudy giuliani is central to that, and discredits the whole hunter biden. if it was a legitimate investigation, it would have gone to the department of justice, not his personal lawyer. >> and cipollone, he defends the presidency. these are arguments he's making on behalf of the presidency.
the end of the argument was dershowitz tonight. he was their last word in terms of, listen, the founders knew what they wanted this to be about. and it wasn't this. i argued it about nixon. i hated him. i argued it about clinton, i loved him. i'm arguing it now, he didn't say what he thought about trump. but how heavy was the argument in terms of, this was not what they intended? >> so this was the one/two punch that ended tonight's primetime, robert ray, who sincerely believes that you need a crime for there to be an impeachable offense. that was followed up by dershowitz. i've been a practicing lawyer, and this is what i think about the practice of law. and dershowitz says i'm a constitutional scholar, and i
support that view. i don't think that view is correct. i've written with robert in contradiction to his point of view. it was, i think, a well-argued argument even though i think it was not correct. >> stick around. i'll take a break. when we come back, we'll look at where it's all sized up now. because we don't know that they're going to keep on going as long as they could. i think they started the day with 21 hours and 6 minutes left. ending early, why would you do that? it's a message they may want to send. we'll discuss it, when we come back. oks different. the unbeatable strength and speed of advil liqui-gels. what pain? breathe freely fast, with vicks sinex. my congestion's gone.
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pam bondy, former a.g. of florida. she's on the president's defense team. she spent half an hour giving this president what the ukrainians would not, publicly attacking his political rival, joe biden. but trump's team have repeatedly claimed the house managers failed to tell the whole story. how did she fail? one, the investigation into
burisma was inactive when joe biden was pushing for the prosecutor's removal. the reason they all wanted the prosecutor out was because he was not tough when it came to going after corrupt companies, including burisma. in fact, democratic senators sent a letter naming burisma as one of the companies to take on. the idea that shokin one the prosecutor they wanted taken out. who did? rob portman and ron johnson, the other point that trump's defenders keep making incorrectly is that you must have a crime. yet, we have yet to hear what crime joe or hunter biden may have committed. here in the united states or even in ukraine. trump's own d.o.j. has never pursued any charges.
and the ukrainian prosecutors, who did look into this, said definitively, hunter biden did not violate anything in their laws. so, while pam bondy tried to push a version of this president who is somehow tough on corruption, the facts are not on her side. since taking office, this president killed a bipartisan an anti corruption rule. the latest is that he tried to make it easier to bribe foreign governments. what hunter biden did was arguably wrong. it looks bad. it doesn't pass the smell test. the former vp says he'll have rules against what his son did if he's elected. but none of that answers why the president chose to go about this the way he did. and why he has chosen to hide
his perfect alibi. think about that. nobody hides an alibi. although it is one word. let's bring back our legal minds. it's good to have you back. professor, let me ask you this question. going after the bidens, the way she did, the way she did, that's the key part, that gets you to this section of asking questions from the senators. i almost fell. might have been the highlight of the show, would have been funny. professor, all the things i just listed, and there are many others in terms of her recitation of facts today. what's the risk? yeah, you put stink on biden, but what is the risk when you get asked questions? >> there are a lot of risks. one of the basic ones is very simple. that is no matter what you say about the bidens, none of it
makes trump innocence. >> let's take another bead on that. and i want more of you to weigh in. this is a big point for people. okay? i know you guys don't see it that way. but remember to the laypeople, if the bidens were doing bad stuff in ukraine, wasn't the president helping me out, and doesn't this all go away? and you could make a good case, if they had stink on them, isn't that absolving him? >> you just made the point, there's a proper way of doing it, and he didn't follow that. secondly, his preoccupation with the bidens was his only interest in corruption as it related to ukraine. his own team gave him talking points about corruption more generally, but instead he mentioned the bidens five times.
at that same point in history, joe biden was beating the president in popularity polls. so there's a reason for the president to be preoccupied with biden. and it wasn't a real investigation, just the announcement of an investigation. there was no genuine interest in corruption, but instead dirtying his rival. >> i'm not convinced. and here's why. he didn't do it the right way. that's you elitist insiders with your fancy rules. he's not a politician. he saw something that was wrong, he did it his own way. got the guy he trusts, rudy, and he got it done. >> no. doesn't work that way. the united states does not have other countries investigate our citizens. we're not even participating in the international criminal court for that reason. and how do you send rudy giuliani over there to gather
information when you have this entire apparatus over there? it's not only not the way it should be done, it's not the way that will work if you're really trying to find out information. by the way, rudy giuliani, who supposedly came back with troves of information, he's been teasing it on twitter for months, any minute now he'll release all this information. he doesn't done it, because he doesn't have anything. he didn't collect any evidence, because there is no evidence. >> can i add something real fast? those are closed door meetings that giuliani had in ukraine. >> fair point in terms of process. we're assuming people care about process. michael -- who is talking to me? >> go ahead. >> go ahead, asha. >> that was me. it's probably better than my question. go ahead.
>> well, i think that the nail in the coffin in the biden issue is, look, what was the end game here of having ukraine investigate the bidens? we don't have an extradition treaty with ukraine. had they investigated these people and decided to charge them, what exactly was supposed to happen? >> did you just throw something in a fit of pique? >> i just -- >> here's the satisfaction, asha. truth. >> i knocked a can over. there's water spilling on the carpet. >> that's okay. the president's argument would be truth. i'm getting the truth out to the american people. they hid it, protected this biden. the state department, the elitists, the deep state. i blew it open for you because i care. that's why you vote for me. what happened to asha? >> it couldn't go anywhere. >> that's where it went. that's his argument, asha.
zeldin, you want to help out while asha cleans up. go ahead, michael. >> i think the most disingenuous thing that pam bondy said was that the reason joe biden wanted to get rid of shokin was because he was going to investigate burisma and his son. that's just an untruth. >> shokin says it's true. >> he's disavowed that. there's not a factual basis for it. she could argue if she wants the conflict of interest or appearance of conflict of interest. but if she accuses joe biden of corruption, that is just not acceptable advocacy because it's untrue. >> is asha okay?
good. okay, i'm putting a lot of emphasis on this because i'm telling you, you're going to hear about it from a lot of republican senators who are explaining their vote. how they feel about biden, and what was exposed about them, how that creates some equivalency with them, you're going to hear about it. thank you for going through it with me, i appreciate it, and the audience will benefit from it. the other big story of the night, the loss of kobe bryant, his daughter, the seven others. a short time ago, lebron james, who had a significant bond with kobe bryant, just passed him in scoring which was huge for him and huge for kobe. he just shared on social media what he's feeling. and he's just getting started. and kareem abdul-jabbar, we have a special one-on-one
conversation with what he'll miss and what will be remembered. it's worth watching, next. for the whole family. new vicks vapopatch. breathe easy. yeah? who's peter? well sweetie, he's your great-great grandfather. here, does he look like me? yeah. your family's story is waiting to be shared. at ancestry.com
so many around the world are reeling after the helicopter crash that claimed kobe bryant, his 13-year-old daughter gianna, and seven others, and the pilot, eight others. the ntsb says there was an ipad used by the pilot. there is no black box, but they have the ipad recovered from the crash site. investigators will be on scene for days. we'll see what it tells us. now, the nba is postponing tomorrow night's lakers/clippers game because of the grief felt by the organization. earlier, i spoke to kareem abdul-jabbar, and he explained to me, and to you, why this is
so much bigger than basketball. >> kareem, as i said before, it is always a pleasure to speak with you. but i'm really sorry to be speaking with you under these circumstances tonight. >> yes, it's been a very tough several hours now, chris. you know, it's very hard to deal with this, to see someone that had so much more to share with us, gone so suddenly and so needlessly. it's really tough. >> you, to those who get to know you, you are a very deep thinker. you believe things deeply, you take a lot of time to figure out what things mean to you. where are you with trying to have any sense of how something like this could happen? >> there's -- you can't make sense out of it. things like this don't make sense. to have someone that had so much
more to share with us, that would have been a leader. look how kobe made it possible for a lot of young athletes to leave high school and come into professional basketball and do well and succeed. because he was the exception that proved the rule. he had that type of leadership quality. he had so much more to give along those lines. >> what i keep hearing said about him is that the basketball was like the third greatest quality that he had. that people didn't get a chance unless they knew him to appreciate his intelligence and to see what he had made of himself in terms of what his family meant, what his kids meant. >> his children meant so much to him. i stopped coaching with the lakers, so i only got to know natalia kind of well.
the younger daughters, i didn't know very well. but some of the things, the one thing, kobe's sense of humor was amazing. i want to share this with people. luke walton was having a weird day at practice. about three or four times up and down the court, luke almost made a spectacular play. but just missed doing it. a blocked shot, a three-point shot, great defense. you know, a tough rebound. so luke was struggling. and kobe from the sideline, sounding exactly like alec guinness says, the force, luke. use the force! it just broke the whole place up. we started dying laughing. it was amazing that he put it all together like that and said it so timely. but he had that kind of timing and that type of insight. and that's what he was about. >> his precociousness as a
player, coming out at 17, making it in the league, we know. why was he so great as a great player yourself, what made him what he was? >> i'd say what made kobe the great player that he was, when he was determined to extend his will, he could extend it, and there was nothing you could do about it. i had the good fortune in november of 1960, i was at the game where elgin got the 81, and i was at the game where kobe got the 81. there was nothing they could do. he was putting up three-pointers from well beyond the three-point line. attacking the basket, made all the free throws. there was no way you could stop him. he had that indomitable will,
and skill to execute wherever he felt like it. and the five world championship rings attest to that. >> was he just a perfect combination of talents? he wasn't the tallest, the strongest, wasn't the most explosive or the best shooter. he was excellent in all those categories. was it the combination? >> it was a combination, and he was court-wise. his dad joe bryant really schooled him on how to play the game. the moments of the game that enable you to dominate. that takes a certain kind of knowledge. and his dad certainly was possessed of that knowledge. and it's something he shared with his son. and kobe took it and expanded on it. i think the same way that, you know, you have stephen curry expanding on what his dad taught him, or klay thompson expanding on what his dad taught him.
there's a chain of exchange of knowledge that gives us athletes the quality of those guys i just mentioned. >> you knew him as a kid. did you see anything in him then? what do you remember of him at 10, 11, 12 years old? >> i met him in italy in the early '90s in rome. he had aspirations then. he wanted to be a great basketball player. i told him, all right. i get that. just listen to what your dad tells you. you want to be like your dad, you don't want to be like darryl dawkins. and kobe got it, you know? >> certainly kobe wound up being much more of a player than that. and now we have the other layer of this tragedy. which it wasn't just kobe.
he died far too young. >> that's the hard part. >> and with his daughter. i think that's a big part of what is bringing the country all on the same page here. all of these different families destroyed in this one accident, kobe, of course, the one who is known best. his daughter with all the promise, leaving three other kids without their father, the wife without a husband. the other families destroyed. i mean, the scope of this tragedy is tough to understand. >> it's tough to understand. it's useless, it serves no purpose except to make us know we need to be even more careful. we don't understand at this point, you know, what the circumstances were about the flight. you know, there could have been some problems with that. and, you know, it's not time to point fingers. it's just time for us to be more cautious and to not let something like this happen
again. in any way. the loss is just too much. you know, i'm just glad that you didn't see me yesterday. because, you know, i was a mess yesterday. and it was -- it was a very difficult day yesterday. >> you know how much respect i have for you. i understand this process. and i wanted you to have your time. but i want people to make sure they don't miss that window of understanding how many great people feel such a connection to kobe bryant. what do you want people to remember about everybody who was lost in this crash? of course, kobe bryant is the one we know best. seeing his child at such a tender age to be gone is devastating. but other kids were lost, parents were lost. what should we remember? >> we just have to remember that no matter who it is or where they are, precious lives can be
lost too easily. we need to remember that, and we need to do more, whatever that is, to keep those things from happening. that's all we can do. >> i heard from some other people who knew him well that the pain they're feeling is because kobe hadn't had his best days yet. and they said a little bit of what you said. the basketball, he'll be one of the greats. but his intelligence, his desire for leadership, what he wanted to do with the rest of his life. what he may have meant to so many communities, that's the pain that they have, that kobe hadn't had his best days yet. what does that mean, about what they knew about this guy? >> well, they -- that means they understood that kobe was looking to expand the good things that he can get done. just, i mean, we're so fortunate in los angeles, we have lebron
james, who is trying to educate a whole school district in ohio and has plans in l.a. we're fortunate to have athletes like this in our community that care about our community. and i think kobe exemplifies that. and what he had on top for us, geez. it's a shame we won't be able to find out what that was. but that's where we are. and i think that's where we start measuring our loss. >> i think that is a really interesting thing for people to know. that what everybody is missing right now, what they think they know about him, was only just the first layer of his life. only 41 years old. so much talent and intelligence and will to do more in life. and that was of course ended with this crash. kareem, thank you so much. i know this is a hard time for
you. thank you for helping us remember what was lost, who was lost, and in the right way. i'm sorry for your pain, and i appreciate your perspective. >> thanks for having me on, chris. i'm glad you gave me this opportunity. thank you. >> it's not easy to have these kinds of conversations where you're going through such pain. but it's important for us to get a scope of this tragedy. nine people done. kobe bryant, obviously, the big name, and the big reach. so many lives touched, so many with heartwarming stories to tell. more tributes ahead. ray allen with his perspective on the man he knew. we'll be right back. i have moderate to severe pnow, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer, yeah i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin
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though, especially to former celtics star ray allen. who remembers him as the ultimate competitor. ray allen joins us now. thank you very much for taking time on what i know is a very difficult time. >> yeah, thanks for having me on, chris. >> so, ray, why do you think so many from the basketball world and beyond are coming out and expressing the grief and the depth of emotion and the knowledge of the man that was kobe bryant? >> well, i think, you know, we all had the chance, the opportunity, the great pleasure to watch kobe grow up. him playing in l.a., one of the largest markets we have, we saw him make mistakes early. we saw him grow. and win a championship, win three championships with shaq, then move on and win two more
after that. that's what america is all about. it's about the way we come together around our sports heroes. and he was larger than life. he did things, you know, coming in to the nba as a kid, and, you know, saying that he wanted to do all those things and reaching this mountaintop. we saw him standing on courtside, pumping his fist after having won a championship. that invincibility is what we all feel like our heroes are that we watch win championships. when you see a guy get knocked down and lose his life, it hurts us all, because we feel like this guy is supposed to live on forever. >> and the fact that he lost his daughter, too. and the two other kids who are lost, and their parents, and the families that are broken, the coach and the pilot. there's so much loss in one event. it makes it difficult to
process. >> it does. and, you know, it reminded me of all the people that i have in my life that, you know, i touch on a daily basis, that touch me. not just my family, but my extended family and the friends around me. you realize to be successful in anything in life, it takes a community of people to help you get through each day. like, somebody is picking up your child from school, a neighbor, somebody is letting you borrow something you need for your yard. whatever it might be. so many people play a part in your ability to be successful as a man or woman anywhere around the world. when you think about these people who passed away, it goes to show you that as great as kobe was, he still had friends, he still had people that loved him and cared for him. and he was doing a fatherly duty
by coaching his daughter and bringing people along with him. i'm sure they were so grateful that they were able to travel with him to the game. and it's just so heartbreaking because i have kids. i coach their teams. i'm with their kids, and with their parents. and you just -- my heart is just broken. you know, he was a guy who, you know, we had some epic battles. i always felt like at some point, we were going to come back around, we got drafted together, we would come back around and be great friends. but that moment is now not ever going to happen. >> i mean, we always think things are going to happen. but time can get in the way. fate can get in the way. it's definitely a reminder to make moments happen when you can. a couple of things about what
won't happen now that would have. he's got three other kids, two of them are young. one of them is really young. >> yeah. >> it will really take effort from people like you and the friends he had to help his wife teach that kid who their father was. for all the media, there will be tons of images of him forever, game tape to watch, and interviews. but what do you, what would you want that kid to know about who her daddy was? >> well, first, i don't know if you know, i probably shouldn't say it, but i will because i know, my wife told me earlier, they had a group prayer for all the nba wives with vanessa. they all have her covered. what i would want his kids to know, i want them to know who he was when i first met him.
you know, he was so wide-eyed and, you know, eager and ready to learn and ready to grow and go out there in the world and compete and succeed. and he was just a simple kid from a small town in america. he had these great ambitions. yeah, his dad played professional basketball overseas, but there was no guarantees that he was going to be who he ultimately ended up being. far too often, kids give up on their dreams because they think they're not 6'5", but what kid is 6'5" at 10 or 13 years old? we have to grow into those individuals. and kobe grew into something that we've come to cherish and celebrate over his lifetime. but at 17, we're not who that kid is at 41, and i would like for his kids to know that their light is ready to be shown across the world.
and they have to just follow it. because we'll be sitting here waiting to watch and hold them up on our shoulders. >> you know, he had the daughter, obviously, for those who don't know, ray allen went to uconn, and that's where it was the dream of kobe's daughter, the ballplayer that he was with, gigi, her name was gian gianna. she wanted to go to uconn. uconn put a number 2 jersey on a seat for her with flowers on it. i felt that was a really beautiful way of recognizing what would never be. >> it was very classy of uconn to do that. i was so happy to see that. my jersey was retired last year at uconn, and kobe and his daughter were at the game. the women played before the men. and i had gotten there late, and everybody told me he was in the building. this was again one of the
moments that i regretted not being able to interact with him. it's like, again, we're talking about these precious moments. we're worried about the future, but we're not living for what happens now. we just have to do it, whatever it is, and not make excuses for it, and just be bold and brazen and say, i'm going to do what i want to do right now and not wait. because these tragedies happen, and we're sitting back, scratching our head, saying i wish i would have done this or said that. and for most of us, with kobe, it's too late for us. we can't extend how we felt about him, how he made us feel. you know, the celebrations we had in his honor. in my case, i beat him one year, he beat me one year. we both have so much to share and talk about. but we won't be able to do that now. it's just -- it's very heartbreaking. >> take solace in this.
his legacy needs to be built in memories now. that's where your remembrances will mean the most. god bless. thank you for letting me know that people are getting around his family to help, they'll kobe and his daughter aren't the only ones in our thoughts. seven other people died. we're thinking about them and their families and all the life that will go unlived. we want to leave you with some words from the late basketball great himself, the words of a legend gone too soon. i hope you listen to them and they live on forrest feest -- f next. (janine) ghostbusters!...
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come up and she'll be standing next to me. hey, you got to have a boy. you and v got to have a boy, someone to carry on the tradition. she's like, oy, i got this. don't need no boy for that. >> i think it's important to try to share everything you've learned to the next generation because i learned a great deal from basketball players, soccer players and other athletes that came before me, not only athletes but business people as well on what it takes to be successful so i think it's only right and important once you reach a certain level you give back and you help the next generation of players and kids accomplish their goals too. tomorrow is not promised to anyone and everybody must do whatever they can to help, no matter how big or how small. it's about how you reach people, how you connect with people, how you make the world a better place. have a good time. enjoy life.
life is too short to get bogged down and be discouraged or you have to keep moving. you have to keep going. put one foot in front of the other and keep rolling. >> thank you for watching. cnn tonight with d. lemon is next. while some 5g signals go only blocks, t-mobile 5g goes miles... beyond the big cities to the small towns... to the people. millions of americans can have access to 5g on t-mobile. this is just the beginning. t-mobile, the first and only nationwide 5g network.
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of course, you can customize and save. can you save me from this conversation? that we can't do, but come in and see what we can do. we're here to make life simple. easy. awesome. ask. shop. discover. at your local xfinity store today. this is cnn tonight, i'm don lemon. lots of news on the impeachment trial and we'll catch you up on all of the big headlines. day two of arguments by president trump's defense team. one of the president's lawyers claiming the charge of obstruction of congress against trump is an attack on the separation of powers and an abuse of power by congress. the president's team tiptoeing around the elephant in the room. a "new york times" report that the draftsman script of john bolton's upcoming