tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN June 17, 2020 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
obstruction of justice is a way of life. i want to repeat that sentence. obstructi obstruction of justice is a way of life. now, who do you think that sentence is referring to? a mafia boss, under indictment perhaps? a corrupt judge? no. the phrase is being used in reference to president donald j. trump, and it's not by adam schiff or nancy pelosi. no, that sentence was written by john bolton. the president's own handpicked national security advisor and former fox news pundit. bolton says that of mr. trump in his new memoir, which we obtained a copy of.
in the book, he also says mr. trump is, quote, no patriot. and he details the things he saw that led him to that conclusion. also, tonight, the president is refusing to budge on his saturday rally in tulsa, even as the city, the state it is in, and the states all around it, are all seeing cases of coronavirus rising, like they've never seen before. plus, part of my conversation with the daily show's trevor noah about race and justice in america, as seen by someone who grew up where racial injustice, apartheid, was once the law of the land. first, though, charges in the killing of rayshard brooks, which could lead to a death sentence for garrett rolfe, the police officer who shot him twice in the back as he fled at a wendy's thrive-thru friday night. there were moments in the courtroom where those charges were announced that made people gasp. such as when fulton county da showed a still frame of mr. brooks on the pavement, dying, and officer rolfe kicking him. not rendering medical
assistance. for some of the last moments of rayshard brooks's life, what was going through his dying mind, a man who had taken an oath to protect the public was kicking him, when he was down. and dying. and the other officer, devin brosnan, was standing on, on him. >> we were able to conclude that, based on the way that these officers conducted themselves while mr. brooks was lying there, that the demeanor of the officers immediately after the shooting did not reflect any fear or danger of mr. brooks. but their actions really reflected other kinds of emotions. >> garrett rolfe, the shooter, has been charged with 11 counts, including felony murder, which carries anywhere from a life sentence to life without parole, to the death penalty. officer brosnan faces three charges, including aggravated
assault for standing on mr. brooks. neither has been arrested. they've been told to turn themselves in by tomorrow evening. late today, cnn obtained a statement from officer rolfe's attorney saying in part, quote, the loss of life in any instance is tragic. however, officer rolfe's actions were justified. for his part, officer brosnan's attorney says his actions friday night were, quote, exemplary. and then, there's this video obtained by cnn of rayshard brooks, just this year, just months before he was shot. talking about what it's like to have been in prison and what it's like out, when you get out of prison. >> i'm 27 years of age. you know, full ti-time carpente. you know, have three beautiful daughters. you know, and being incarcerated, it has -- it has impacted my family by, you know, just me not being there. the -- the time, you know, the bills. the -- you know, me -- me just
being there, for my kids. you know, teaching them. helping them with their homework. you know, helping raise them. you know, and my daughter, sometime, you know, i have to, you know, it just -- you know, like, it's kind of hard. you know, because, by me being incarcerated, you know, it's taken away from them, as me being present, you know. and when you're away, you know, the -- it's like the saying, out of sight, out of mind. >> joining us now is chris stewart, attorney for mr. brooks's family. mr. stewart, what's your reaction to the charges today? are they appropriate? >> yeah. anderson, aren't you tired, yet, of having to fight so hard, march in the streets, fight all
of the negative statements and things, just to get an arrest in what can easily be viewed, factually and legally, as an unjustified shooting of an unarmed man, running away. every case is not going to be george floyd where we represent his daughter but that's the world we live in. >> how -- i'm wondering, i mean, is this kind of what you expected? just in terms of charges? >> yes. i mean, like i said, i leave the criminal matters up to the district attorneys in every case, in every city that we have a situation like this. and just hope that they look at all the facts and do their job, and come to their conclusion. i mean, we've had situations where we've been heartbroken by the announcement. and we've had some where it's step one towards justice. and you just have to let the criminal justice system play
out. and not be angry, not be upset, on either side. just let the system play out how it is, just like in any case of murder. >> it certainly seems that the district attorney believes that emotion, anger, perhaps embarrassment that they had a taser taken away from them, that there was a range of emotions. that were leading these officers, or at least this one particular officer, to pull that trigger. even though, the man, mr. brooks, was known by them to not have a weapon, other than the taser that he had taken from them. >> yeah. that was mind blowing today. his wife actually had to leave the courtroom when we found out that officer rolfe kicked him after he was already on the ground, dying. to me, as a lawyer, that shows his mental state. it wasn't fear for his life.
he was enraged. he was angry, from that scuffle. and kicked him, which, you know. >> the second police officer, who did not shoot mr. brooks, according to the da, has agreed to be a state witness. but tonight, his attorney put out a statement saying his client has not agreed to testify or be a state witness. and is pleading not guilty. does that make sense to you? i mean, do you know anything more about that? >> no, but it makes perfect sense. i saw the statement. it said that he is cooperating. but hasn't, technically, agreed to be a state witness or whatever it is. the district attorney, apparently, already met with him. and got whatever statements or evidence or agreements that he needed. so i'm sure that the officer and his team are stating that now. but i understand the pressure that he's probably under. everybody in the world is probably calling him, especially the unions, to get him to not,
you know, testify or partake in this situation to get mr. brooks justice. i understand the pressure and the hate that he's probably under. so, i'm not shocked by it. >> but, you know, i mean, you know, people talking about reform. nothing reforms, unless, you know, we hear from police units, all the time that, you know, nobody hates a bad cop more than a good cop. but yet, we don't see, time and time again, good cops stepping forward and saying, oh, yeah, we all know who the bad cops are. we know who the people we don't want to go out on patrol are. nobody seems to step forward and actually stand up. when it was announced that he actually was going to be testifying, that -- that gave some people, i think, some hope? and now, obviously, that seems to be not the case. or at least he doesn't, at this point, want to do that. >> it gave me a lot of hope. and it made everything worth it,
when i always say that there are some phenomenal police officers out there. and i catch heat for even acknowledging the good officers out there. but then, i catch heat for going after officers that kill somebody unjustly. and it gave me hope that the time is really changing where officers are going to step forward and say, no more. we see changes happening. i'm going to be part of the change, even if i have to take personal loss. we're just not there, yet. >> yeah. and it seems like the system doesn't allow that. i'm sure there's a lot of officers, who would like to be able to do that. but it doesn't -- it seems like the officers who do do that, they're the ones who end up getting punished. >> no, the system does not allow that. you know, and i just see it, all too often, where i've had officers want to testify or have
to get me information, secretly or privately, because they're scared of the repercussions of publicly supporting something they know was wrong. just look at the information that just came out, that officer rolfe was involved in, in 2015. where he shot another black man, and that was hidden in a report. >> chris stewart, i appreciate you being with us. we'll continue to follow up. thank you. much more on what we heard today from the district attorney was remarkable. the way he walked us, at great length, through the basis for charges. the photos. not arresting officer rolfe immediately, despite capital charges against him. officer brosnan's attorney denying his client is turning state's evidence. want to try to make legal sense out of it, former federal prosecutor laura coates joins us. what is your reaction to these charges and this kind of back and forth on the other officer? >> well, first of all, the idea that, right now, we have an officer who is facing the death
penalty for shooting a black man, who did not have a gun on him, and he was aware that he did not have a lethal weapon, in the form of a taser, on his person, is really astounding. not to mention that you have cooperation, to some extent, from a fellow officer. we're often aware that sort of blue code of silence, and how it impacts prosecution. well, we're seeing a lot of that unravel today. and to see there's not only charges against the officer who shot but charges against, not just involving rayshard brooks, but three people who were in the line of fire, who were sitting in a car in that drive-thru. it shows a very comprehensive pursuit of justice in this case. and i got to tell you, when i heard that the officer, not only shouted i got him but, also, kicked him, rather than rendering aid in that two-plus minutes that he was lying on the ground. it made my stomach turn and a lot of other people. but, you know what really made me raise my eyebrows, anderson,
was the fact that normally what protects police officers is this idea of giving a benefit of the doubt by using a reasonable standard for officers. what's reasonable to an officer in that situation? well, the prosecutors look at the manual. and said they were fired. he was fired for having excessive force. you can't shoot a taser at somebody who is running away, much less shoot a firearm. and so, because that was excessive, and for other factors, they tied it all in together, and this could be a serious challenge. considered long-term, being a very hurdle-based supreme court precedent in a case decided today called grand versus connor. >> laura coates, thank you. we're going to take a quick break. coming up next, we're going to have more of rayshard brooks's own words from just a few months before his killing on the effects of an early encounter in the justice system and a struggle to transcend it. later, what we are learning from john bolton's book. what it says about the president and what it says about an author who say the lawmaker should have made a better case against the
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one fired atlanta police officer's been charged with a capital crime. another also faces serious charges in the killing of rayshard brooks. the next item is haunting. you will see what might have been a story of struggle and, perhaps redemption in video obtained by cnn's van jones. rayshard brooks talks about incarceration and the impact on his family which he is trying to do right by. trying for redemption which he can see within reach and which he cannot know will never come. >> i'm 27 years of age. you know, full-time carpenter. >> that was rayshard brooks, in february, this year. just months before he was shot and killed by an atlanta police
officer. >> i've always been the type of person to, you know, if -- if you do some things that's wrong, you pay your debts to society. >> brooks shared his story about navigating the criminal justice system, with a group called reconnect. >> i just feel like some of the system could, you know, look at us as individuals. we do have lives, you know, just a mistake we made. you know, and, you know, not -- not just do us, as if we were animals. you know, lock us away. when i did get arrested, you know, it was for false imprisonment and -- and financial credit card fraud. i got sentenced to do one year in prison. >> when he got out, brooks had no money, no car, and a mountain of debt. >> for one individual trying to deal with all of these things, at one point in time, is just
impossible. you have court costs. probation. just a lot of -- a lot of -- you would have to have a lot of money. and i'm fresh out of jail. >> fresh out of jail, and in need of a job. >> you go to fill out your application, and you get to this question, have you ever been convicted of a crime? or have you ever been arrested? and, you know, you sitting there like, oh, my god. you know, it just breaks your heart. it's hurting us. but it's hurting our family the most. you know, so as we go through these trials and tribulations, we've made mistakes. and it just causes our kids to be angry inside. you know, and that's -- that's a hard feeling to stomach. >> all of this, brooks says, impacted his mental health. >> it hardened me, at a point. you know, to like, hey, i have
to have my -- my guard up because the world is cruel. you know, it took me through seeing different things in, you know, in the system. you know, it just makes you hardened to a point. >> what brooks said he needed most was help from the very system that locked him up. >> probation is not there with you every day, like a mentor or something. they're not taking you out to find a job. you have to do these things on your own. you know, and i feel like it should be a way for you to have some kind of person, like a mentor assigned to you, to, you know, keep your track, keep you in the direction you need to be going. we can't can get the time back but we can make up for it. you know? i'm trying. i'm not the type of person to give up. you know? and i'mgoing to keep going until i make it to where i want to be. >> randy kay, cnn, west palm
beach, florida. >> rayshard brooks. joining us now with thoughts on the video, this case, and how it fits into his own efforts to bring about criminal justice reform is van jones, reform alliance whose mission is, quote, reducing the number of people unjustly under the control of the criminal justice system. so, van, you know, that video, there's power in hearing mr. brooks. hearing his voice. seeing him as someone, not just in grainy footage from a police body cam. >> yeah. the opposite of criminalization is humanization. that -- that was a dad. you know, he made a mistake. he admitted he made a mistake. he was doing everything he could to try to get back on his feet. but this is not just a policing story. this is a story about probation, as well. why did he run? we have no idea why that police officer chose to shoot somebody in the back. we'll find that out in court. but why did the guy run in the first place? he was on probation. and our probation system is so punitive that anybody with any contact with a police officer, at all, is going to go back to
prison. so he's there. he's drunk. you know, he shouldn't have been sleeping in the car. but he realizes his whole life is about to be thrown down the gutter. he's going to lose his job, his apartment, his kids, and everything. and so, he ran. we have this unbelievable irony colliding on that parking lot, right there. where you have police, with too much power and too little oversight. and then, people coming home from prison with too little opportunity and too much oversight. so literally, any mistake that they make, they go right back into the system. even if they're not committing any new crime or some minor infraction. you can go back to prison when you're on probation, just if you have contact with an officer, even if there's no crime, if you're late to a probation officer meeting, if you don't pay a fine or a fee, you go back to prison. and you lose everything you've been scratching for. and so, if we're going to change the system, it's important to talk about police.
it's important to talk about prisons. but you have 4.5 million people in the country on probation and parole, in his situation. and that system is a -- a -- a spider's web, anderson, of catch 22s. so, good guys like that, who did a dumb thing, who are trying and scratching and clawing, trying to get back. trying to be good. trying to help their kids. trying to get a job. they can't do it! they just can't do it, anderson. and it's -- it's not just him. you have too many people, in prison, caught up in prison. you've got 4.5 million people caught up in probation and parole, who cannot get back on their feet. and it's -- it's -- when i saw this, i broke down because i've met so many young men like this. we have no idea. he could've -- if he could have just been able to turn it around, he could have been maybe a great dad. he says a great carpenter. maybe he could have been an entrepreneur. he could have helped other people but it's not just the police. the probation and parole system has to change as well.
>> you know, there's also so much talk now, obviously, about, you know, does it need to be police who show up all the time, on incidents that, frankly, a lot of police officers would prefer not to have to be involved with? things that don't require a gun. you know, social -- social issues and family issues and, obviously, sometimes police officer, absolutely necessary and needs lifesaving. but all these things got to be looked at. >> i mean, one of the things i'm glad about. i'm hearing from both republicans and democrats, from people in congress and people in the white house, about the need for what they're calling co-responders. having people who can show up in a situation like that, without a gun, and talk somebody down, rather than shooting somebody down. you know, listen. law enforcement. i'm from a law enforcement family, as you know. cops don't want to have to do all this ticky tacky stuff. but you got some, they get on
such a power trip when they are given these assignments, they begin to use too much force and they don't respect people and don't respect the law. i think, in this case, in particular, i think the reason people in atlanta are so upset is because this guy didn't have to die. he was trying to turn his life around. i'm glad that there are charges against this cop. but we have to change the system that made him so desperate, that he ran in the first place. >> yeah. van jones, thank you. you can read a piece from van about all this on cnn.com right now. up next, what cnn has learned from a copy of john bolton's new memoir we just got ahold of. claiming the president is erratic, foolish, and a lot more, when we continue. the tempur-pedic breeze makes sleep... feel cool. because the tempur-breeze transfers heat... away from your body. so you feel cool... night after night. during the tempur-pedic summer of sleep, experience the mattress ranked number one in customer satisfaction by jd power.
the broadcast, the words that might have been written about a mob boss but instead about the president of the united states. john bolton's book, cnn has obtained a copy. the justice department has gone to court for a second day to stop publication and today, bolton spoke with nbc news about the president and vladimir putin. >> i think putin thinks he can play him like a fiddle. i think putin is smart, tough. i think he sees that he's not faced with a serious adversary, here. i don't think he's worried about donald trump. >> cnn chief political analyst gloria joins me now. gloria, this is epically fascinating. among the bombshells that seem to be in this book, is there one that stands out among the rest?
>> there is to me, anderson. of course, makes you wonder why john bolton didn't talk to congress about this. but that's debate for another time. the first thing that is stunning to me is that the president actually pled with president xi of china to help him win the election. and let me read this to you. they were having a conversation about american politics. and then, he says, trump then, stunningly, turned the conversation to the coming u.s. presidential election, alluding to china's economic capability to affect the ongoing campaigns, pleading with xi, to ensure he'd win. he stressed the importance of farmers and increased chinese purchases of soybeans and wheat in the electoral outcome. i would print trump's exact words, he says, but the government's prepublication review process has decided otherwise. in other words, he was muzzled about it. and then, let me give another example to you, anderson. and then, this is a conversation with -- with xi, in which the president, apparently, thinks
that those internment camps for muslim minority in china were actually a good idea. he said at the opening dinner of the osaka g20 meeting in 2019, with only interpreters present, xi had to explain to trump why he was basically building concentration camps. according to our interpreter, trump said that xi should go ahead with building the camps, which trump thought was exactly the right thing to do. and by the way, anderson, today, the president signed a bill that punishes china for those human rights abuses against the uighurs. >> wow. >> it's hard to believe. >> yeah. what a coincidence that he happens to do that, just as the book is detailing this. i mean, obviously, bolton's background in foreign policy. and let's just remember. i mean, this is somebody the president picked from fox news, to be his foreign policy advisor. it is a very important position that this man had. how much does he describe the extent to which the president
views everything through getting re-elected, through domestic/political lens? because it seems like everything. >> everything. everything. and i think it may have come as a surprise to him, in a way. he said that securing a second term was all that mattered. and i'm going to give you another example here. so much, that he was caring about re-election so much that he wanted to keep his family out of every controversy. and this is particularly damning, anderson. he says -- and you remember this -- in november of 2018, trump came under fire for writing an unfettered defense of the saudi crowned prince. later, with points over the columni columnist. but according to bolton's book, the main goal of the missive was to take away attention from a story about ivanka trump, using her personal e-mail for government business. and here's the quote.
this will divert from ivanka, trump said, according to the book, if i read the statement in person, that will take over the >> wow. >> it's unimaginable. yeah. >> mi mean -- >> the kashoggi murder. >> i mean, i'm not that surprised because, clearly, ivanka is, you know, the star child that gets the focus from him, and always has. but the fact that he actually thinks beyond his own needs, you know, i guess, maybe that's a way to look at that as being kind of a sweet gesture that he's trying to help his daughter. >> sweet gesture. yeah. >> i mean, i'm just trying to be, you know, i'm trying to look for something. >> you're trying to be nice. yeah. it's just -- it's just remarkable. this is the murder of kashoggi. i mean -- >> and he's the president of the united states. >> this is the president of the
united states, whom, by the way, bolton also described as stunningly uninformed. asking, for example, if finland were a part of russia. and asking whether, in fact, our oldest ally, great britain, actually had nuclear weapons. so there you are. >> yeah. ruler of the free world. gloria, stay with us. want to bring in cnn's chief white house correspondent, jim acosta. jim, i mean, i guess, it's not necessarily even that there's a ton new, although asking xi and telling him he should continue to build concentration camps, obviously that is startling. but the fact that all this is coming from john bolton, you know, no liberal, you know, member of the deep state. >> no, absolutely not. and i will tell you, anderson, you know, white house officials have sent out some talking points to their surrogates this evening. and it is pretty weak tea, i have to tell you. i mean, at this point, what they're saying about john
bolton's book is that it is lrie with classified material. that's one of the reasons the administration filed a temporary restraining order tonight, to try to block publication of the book. but much of the book is already out there. >> so they're confirming that's real. >> essentially, yes. essentially, yes, that's right. and -- and they only took a meager attempt in these talking points to say that there are some items in the book that aren't true. pointing to a tweet from the president, and another statement from mick mulvaney's lawyer, the former white house chief of staff. but, anderson, i mean, this is damning to have this kind of material coming from a former national security advisor. and when you add to it, the fact that the former chief of staff john kelly, the former defense secretary jim mattis, have all had pretty critical things to say about this president, in recent days. i mean, that goes to show you, even though the president had said in the past that he only hires the best people, it turns out, these best people have terrible things to say about
this president. one other thing we should point out, anderson. and -- and that is this. at this point, the white house is really just not trying to, you know, shut down this book, in any measurable way. they're trying to block it in court, obviously. but kayleigh mcenany, the white house press secretary, just put out some tweets a few moments ago, essentially saying, well, john bolton had said things praising the president in the past. where is this john bolton now? well, you can read where john bolton is now. he -- he goes through, as gloria was just saying, chapter and verse, through so many different episodes. and when you add to what we know about the ukraine controversy, that led to the president's impeachment, where he sought a quid pro quo with the president of ukraine. this -- this additional overture to the chinese leader xi jinping for help in the 2020 election, after asking for the russians' help to get hillary clinton's e-mail in 2016. we now have a quid pro quo
trilogy, that spans the entire trump first term in office. it's pretty remarkable. >> you say we heard from mick mulvaney's lawyer. someday, we'll hear from mick mulvaney when he writes his book, as soon as this is over. you know, maybe it'll be called, you know, got kicked out of the room when it happened. jim acosta, thank you. >> not a lot of courage. >> that's right. exactly. gloria, thanks so much. long lines in tulsa, oklahoma, already awaiting president trump's rally there saturday. according to new analysis, new coronavirus cases are spiking in oklahoma and at least nine other states. details, when we continue. for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex.
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rally could be for public health. according to johns hopkins university data, ten states are now seeing highest seven-day average of new daily cases since the pandemic began. almost all are along the sunbelt of the u.s. and they include oklahoma, which analysis says has seen a 91% increase in cases from just a week earlier. only alabama saw a bigger spike. in a separate report, the health department in tulsa, said today the city just set a new daily record for total positive cases. we should also note dr. anthony fauci, member of the president's coronavirus task force, that doesn't speak with the president anymore, at least not in the last two weeks, said he would not attend the rally, due to his age and the risk of virus spreading.
earlier, joe biden held a campaign event in philadelphia suburb and hammered the president for holding the rally. >> to get back in this campaign through his campaign rallies. he'll put people at risk, as everyone's pointed out. he's ready to do it, as long as, notwithstanding cdc guidance, as long as the people showing up sign a waiver. promising they'll not hold the campaign liable. oh, man. >> joining me now to talk about the pandemic in oklahoma is dr. jebron pasha, with university of oklahoma physicians. he also authored a letter signed by healthcare workers, asking the mayor to postpone the president's rally. the mayor has said he will not. so this letter you wrote to the mayor reads in part, as our city and state covid numbers climb at a rate previously unseen, it's unthinkable that this is seen as a logical choice. yet, the rally is still proceeding. what do you -- what is your
concern, here, that's going to happen? >> you know, anderson, there is some things that you don't really need a lot of data to take a look at a situation, and make a decision. and -- and, without looking at the data, you can get a sense of the risk that a large gathering, like this, puts all of us in. you can also look at the data. and we know, now, that we're seeing numbers that we hadn't seen previously during the pandemic, in terms of our daily new cases. we are in a spot, right now, where even without a potential gar gathering of this size, we are concerned with the trajectory of these positive cases. >> when asked about the rally today, the white house press secretary, kayleigh mcenany, i want to play what she said. >> we are doing temperature checks, hand sanitizers, masks. when you come to the rally, as
with any event, you assume a personal risk. that is just what you do. when you go to a baseball game, you assume a risk. that's part of life. it's the personal decision of americans, as to whether to go to the rally or whether not to go to the rally. >> apologize for the audio in that. sounded like she was at a rally. but what -- what's your -- i'm curious to know if she is going to be down in the crowd, with the tens of thousands of people milling around, cheering, yelling. i -- i would be surprised but -- but we'll wait and see. is -- i suppose the concern you also have from a medical standpoint is, it's not just local impact this might have on people who live in tulsa. i mean, these are, very likely, people who are coming from other states as well, and are going to go back to those other states. and, in weeks, we could very easily, you know, see the results of this in a number of states.
>> yeah. you know, you take a look at some of the surrounding states. specifically, northwest arkansas. they're having a huge spike in cases. you go to the south, with texas having a huge spike in cases. and you have all of these people coming into our city, being packed into a 19,000-person arena, and maybe more if they extend it into the convention center. and then, go back to their communities. i mean, the potential harm for this is -- is very worrisome. >> dr. jebron, i appreciate what you do every day. thank you. joining me now is our chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. sanjay, is the president moving forward with this? what is the reality of coronavirus right now? i mean, where do things really stand? >> well, i mean, in the united states, you know, this story started several months ago with, you know, the big cities along the coast, such as seattle and -- and cities in california and new york. having patients come in.
and, over the last several months, we've seen what has happened. there was spikes in -- in those areas, initially. and we can show sort of the status of things now, here, in the country. you see the green line of t. that was the northeast. the spikes. but look at these other lines, anderson. as that green line has come down, the yellow line is coming up. and you got arizona, which is about a third the size of new york, in terms of population, that is soon going to probably surpass new york in terms of patients hospitalized with covid. so it was these waves across the country. hearing these waves terms a lot lately. but it started off with these waves in certain, big cities. primarily, coastal cities with big, international airports. and now, you are starting to see these patients in other parts of the country. you mentioned, already, ten states have the highest rates now of infection since this pandemic began. 21 states are trending upward. so this -- you know, this is -- we're still, very much, in things here, for sure.
i -- i -- i remind people, when you're looking at the case rates overall, you look at the number of infections but also hospitalizations. texas, arizona, north carolina, are having some of their highest hospitalization rates as well. you've had michael olsterholm on a lot. he always says we're in the second inning of a nine-inning game. >> hearing from the president, also, now the vice president, who told governors, you know, when you talk about this, you should stress that the reason things look like they're going up is because we're just testing so gosh darn much, that we're going to have more positive cases because we're testing. which is -- i mean, it had -- there's a certain idiotic logic to it. but it's just -- it's just not the case. i mean, people aren't going to the hospital with covid because there's more testing. >> right. i mean, you just have to take one layer off of this argument.
this gosh-darn argument. and you'll see the truth to this. i mean, first of all, it may be counterintuitive but you do a lot of testing to bring down the numbers, not to have them go up. because you find people who are infected, you isolate them. you slow down transmission of the virus. that's the whole point. but you take a look at places, i think we have some examples here. but, in new york, where you are, anderson, as testing went up over time, what happened? the case rates started to actually come down. so, there, you see the testing. that's actually gone up, over time. and, in the next graph, you see that the actual cases have come down. that's what should happen. increase in testing should lead to decrease in cases. by the way, if you start to talk about what is the right amount of testing? we're doing about 500,000 tests per day, roughly. some say we should be doing 5 million tests per day, in order to get more of those sort of scenarios like new york. so ten times as much what we're doing right now. so yes, we're testing more than we used to but we were testing an abysmally small amount,
before. >> sanjay, i hoped we wouldn't have to have another town hall because we'd hoped this obviously would have gone away. been dealt with. but we're going to be doing another town hall glad we're doing it because there is a lot of information out there and it's still around. look forward seeing you then. trever noah and his thoughts on the charges announced today on the police officer who killed rayshard brooks. bottom line is, moms love that land o' frost premium sliced meats have no by-products. [conference phone] baloney! [conference phone] has joined the call. hey baloney here. i thought this was a no by-products call? land o' frost premium. a slice above. feel cool. because the tempur-breeze transfers heat... away from your body. so you feel cool... night after night. during the tempur-pedic summer of sleep, experience the mattress ranked number one in customer satisfaction by jd power.
it is a busy night. let's see what chris is working on. >> we've had a lot of changes in the last hour or so, anderson. we have extraordinary access inside the ray shard brooks case. there is apparently a potential revolt going on by police in atlanta because of the charges against the two officers today.
dozens and dozens of officers according to our ryan young are not responding to calls or are calling in sick. this is basically their reaction of not wanting to work if this is what is happening. so we have the mayor of atlanta tonight. we also learned today, interesting things on the charges, one was the prosecutors don't see him as the only victim. they listed other ones. one of them is named melvin evans. he was there. he saw everything that happened in real time. he is with us tonight. we also have the attorneys for the other officer involved. not rolfe the one who did the shooting but officer brosnan the first to encounter rayshard brooks that night. his attorneys are here to clear up whether he is working with the state or is going to be a witness. they had been reporting he would be and then there was a statement put out by the attorneys that he would not be and what brosnan did that night was exemplary.
they are here tonight as well. >> all right. about four minutes from now. thanks. still to come we'll talk to the daily show's trevor noah and his thoughts about the police officer who killed rayshard brooks. you know when your dog is itching for an outing... or itching for some cuddle time. but you may not know when he's itching for help... licking for help... or rubbing for help. if your dog does these frequently. they may be signs of an allergic skin condition that needs treatment. don't wait. talk to your veterinarian and learn more at itchingforhelp.com.
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we apologize. you can see the whole interview friday at 9:30 plus extended version on sunday at 10:00 p.m. here on cnn. the news continues now. cuomo "prime time". thank you very much. there is a lot changing here in real time. i am chris cuomo. welcome to "primetime." we've got extraordinary access to the key elements of the rayshard brooks case for you. we have an exclusive interview with a name who today was named as an additional victim by prosecutors, certainly a key witness in the police killing of rayshard brooks. you'll hear his story. this comes as we get new information about a potential revolt by atlanta police officers. we have the mayor of atlanta here with us tonight to respond to what we are being told reportedly is dozens of officers calling in sick. or failing to answer calls because of the remarkable charges filed today against the atlanta cop who killed rayshard brooks. felony murder and ten other counts.