tv Coronavirus Facts and Fears A CNN Global Town Hall CNN July 9, 2020 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
flat, that's on the bottom. ours is green. we could only hope we would be a little more like italy. thank you for joining us. our global town hall, coronavirus facts and fears, dr. redfield, sanjay and anderson starts right now. ♪ welcome. i'm anderson cooper in new york. >> i'm dr. sanjay gupta. this is our 16th cnn global town hal, coronavirus, facts and heres. >> it comes as the virus makes it clear not only has it left us, it's growing faster than ever before. which reminded us that it, not us, is in control. and until and unless we get our act together as a nation. >> people laughed about are we concerned about the second wave? i keep telling people, what are you talking about a second wave? we are knee deep in the first wave. we have never gotten out of it. >> dr. anthony fauci today warns
we could soon be seeing 100,000 new cases every single day. he's been making the rounds on radio and podcast and said yesterday, any state that's having a serious problem should look at shutting down. today, he told the 528 podcast although some states havevirus, country, i don't think you can say we're doing great. we're just not. texas and california both today reporting the highest number of covid related deaths ever. 26% of tests coming back positive in texas. 28% in arizona. intensive care units in both states running out of beds. >> it gets ugly and fast. medical providers, support staff, is working day after day, shift after shift, stopping only to rest and eat, to call the next of kin. it's tough work. that's what it looks like in texas and arizona right now. like new york did during the worst of the outbreak.
>> tonight, we're going to talk about how we got to this point and how to reverse the trend. and with the school year just weeks away, we'll try to answer the question about when, how, and whether to go back to the classroom. the cdc director dr. robert redfield is at the center of the controversy over guidelines about that. he joins us. >> we've been getting a lot of those questions there. you can see on our social media scroll. tweet us your question with the #cnntownhall or leave a comment on the cnn facebook page. we'll be playing as many of your video questions tonight as we can for dr. redfield and other experts tonight. >> in addition, reports from across the country and around the world, including brazil, second only to the u.s. in cases. we start with where this country is right now. more than 133,000 people in the united states have died from the coronavirus. and there are now more than 3 million confirmed cases. in the last 28 days alone, 1 million new infections were
reported. 33 states are seeing their numbers rising. this country is now averaging more than 52,000 new cases a day. >> just a few days ago, we were aghast that we hit 50,000. without a national strategy and a road map, we'll quickly accelerate to 100,000 cases. >> florida, arizona, california, and texas are all seeing sharp spikes. hospitals in those states are quickly reaching capacity. the mayor of phoenix says they will soon be overwhelmed. >> we need medical professionals, we need testing kits, we need supplies immediately. our hospitals are already in dire straits. >> hard-hit areas may have to tighten their restrictions. and the school year is just weeks away in some states with no federal mandate on how to keep students and teachers safe. >> we are in a much worse place than we were back in march, because at that time, there was one epicenter. now we have multiple epicenters
around the country. >> there is reportedly progress on a vaccine. dr. anthony fauci says he's still cautiously optimistic we'll have one by the end of the year. and clinical trials for an inhaled version of the drug, remdesivir, have begun, which would include treatment options for doctors. despite president trump's claim we're in a good place, the virus is by no means contained. >> i think it's important to tell you and the american public that i'm very concerned because it could get very bad. >> dr. fauci has the country's attention this week. his voice was only part of a picture that includes many developments. >> that's right, anderson. since our first town hall, we've been hammering this point we know we need more testing. we started late out of the gate, we've never caught up on testing. we used to talk about a day that testing would be so easy that you would know if you had the virus. we're not there.
as cases continue to rise, younger people are contributing to the uptick. more than 50% of coronavirus cases in los angeles are 18 to 40 years. a third in detroit are people aged 20 to 29. we know younger people are less likely to get sick, but we don't know how age affects the transmisability of the virus, is it easier to spread to others, harder to contract? that will be a key factor when we talk about sending kids to school. we're not even sure why kids are less likely to get infected. also, treatment wise, lots of news about hydroxychloroquine again. another observational study, one that showed benefit but also reminded us why observational studies are so hard to interpret. the majority of the people receiving hydroxychloroquine in this new study were also receiving a steroid medication, which had already been shown to greatly benefit patients. so how do you know was it the
hydroxychloroquine or the steroid? that's why you do randomized controlled studies, which have been done for hydroxychloroquine and showed no benefit. that's why the nih, the w.h.o. hal halted trials. but the gold standard studies showed it had no benefit. frankly, anderson, looking at an observational study result is like doing an ultrasound to determine if gender of a baby after the baby is already born. you don't really need that ultrasound, you already know the answer. >> yeah. because now brazil's president has talked about hydroxychloroquine as being something he's taking that is helping him. obviously, he's embraced this early on, despite the lack of scientific evidence. major development in sports. the big ten conference announcing that all autumn sports will play a conference only schedule, no
interconference games at all. i know you went to michigan, so i don't really know what that means. more now from around the country. sarah, california was one of the first states to shut down, opened slowly, but they are seeing a huge jump in cases. what happened? >> reporter: yeah. california as we mentioned, one of the hardest hit of 33 states that are seeing a rise in coronavirus cases. ky tell you that in los angeles county, which is the most populous county in america as a whole with more than 10 million people, the mayor says it is partly due to younger people. we heard sanjay allude to this. people between the ages of 18 and 40 apparently are those who are really helping to spread this virus, because now they're looking at the rates of being positive more than 50% of the people testing positive for this virus are in that group. now, that number just a few weeks ago was 30% of the people being tested positive for
coronavirus. and so you are seeing this trend, the mayor is imploring younger people to please follow the guidelines to save lives and to keep people out of hospitals. really, the worst has happened. it's the thing everybody feared. started opening up, and now we're seeing not only the coronavirus cases arriving, but hospitalizations, the people going into the hospital with covid-19 are on the rise. it jumped over the past 14 days. we have also seen the number of the -- the rate of infection has also gone up here. and while we know that right now at los angeles county again, lots of people here, more than 10 million, there are enough hospital beds. there is a worry about icu beds and if this trend continues, whether they can handle that number of people. we know that at least in one county here, yolo county, they have reported they are out, they have zero icu beds available. and we also have a grim number here from california.
149 people died of the coronavirus today here in the state, the highest daily death toll that we have seen since the pandemic began here. >> in addition to the icu beds, you need to have respiratory therapists to make sure people can get the care. we have seen dr. fauci talked about florida and arizona opened up too quickly. what is the latest you've heard there? >> reporter: i'm going to start with arizona. they are in a world of hurt. this is an analysis of john hopkins data that shows that arizona, its rate of infection is about 25%, which means about 1 in 4 people who are tested are coming back positive with the coronavirus. we heard from an epidemiologist and dr. fauci also saying why is this all happening? probably because the state aggressively reopened. and there are some folks out there who have just completely given up or never wanted to follow the guidelines like wearing a mask when you're in an
area around people like self-distancing, like staying around just those in the confines of the homes. that is not happening. and masks aren't mandated across the state. some cities are mandating them. there is a lot of worry in arizona. florida also facing a major uptick in cases and death. >> sarah, thank you very much. more now on brazil and president bo bolsinaro and mocked the virus. row after row of newly prepared graves. cnn's bill weir is in brazilia. what is the latest there and what is being done to try to deal with the spread? >> reporter: well, the latest, anderson, about another 40,000 or so confirmed cases, about
1100 fatalities, closing in on close to 70,000 tragic deaths due to covid-19. but the testing here, you have to keep in mind, is 1/6th of what's happening in the united states. so most experts think those numbers are vastly underreported by a factor of ten. as we have seen and discussing, from south korea to sweden, this virus has really laid bare the strength of community and the smarts of people in charge. it's no coincidence that number one and number two in the worst categories are led by cult of personality leaders. just for context, the president of brazil, far right wing, former military officer who was best known for singing the praises of the day of a dictatorship. he's proudly homophobic and racist in his comments. so he's bucked conventional wisdom, threw out a couple of health ministers who tried to
get him to adhere to the most common sense standards. and his diagnosis has been take this hydroxychloroquine. it's common in the tropics, and get back to work, especially if you're under 40. and you've seen that didn't flatten the curve, that fattened the curve in the most tragic ways. and it doesn't look like his own bouts with the disease is sort of converting him to science. in fact, his former health minister told me he thinks the opposite will happen. he'll come through it with mild symptoms and say, see, i told you so. he even has his military planning missions to take this hydroxychloroquine into indigenous areas and giving it to tribes. at the same time, he vetoed a law that would have guaranteed hospitals clean water and beds to those tribes. if you can imagine, if icus are
filling up in florida and texas what they must be look around here. even around brazilia, 99% capacity in their icus. >> bill weir, thank you for reporting on that. joining us now, director of the centers for disease control and prevention, dr. robert redfield. thank you for being with us. yesterday, the president tweeted saying i disagree with cdc gov on their tough and expensive guidelines for opening schools. they're asking schools to do impractical things. i'll be meeting with them. shortly after the vice president announced with you standing by his side, he said this -- >> the president said today we just don't want the guidance to be too tough. that's the reason why next week, the cdc is going to be issuing a new set of tools. >> and kai want to give you
another opportunity, because it sounds like the cdc is caving to the president's demands to essentially weaken guidelines to make them less tough. i know a lot of thought was put into those guidelines. now you're issuing new ones? >> thank you, anderson. first, i want to stress that the purpose of the cdc guidelines are to provide a variety of different strategies for schools to use to help facilitate the reopening of schools. i can tell you that those guidance that we put out, are out and they stand. we do continue to provide additional material and actually had planned for some time some resources or consideration documents to help better understand the guidance, particularly for communities that are opening k-12. we have another document for parents and caregivers how to
plan for kids to go back to school. >> you're saying you're not putting out new guidelines. the vice president just said it right there. he said we don't want them to be too tough, so you're going to be releasing new tools. i know you said you planned this. it sure seems like a coincidence these will show up next week, because these takes so much time to go through. i don't understand, either recommendations are based on science or not. why come out with new ones with -- these guidelines were worked over for a long time. >> yeah, they're not new guidelines we're coming out with, anderson. we started the guidance for k-12 back in february and higher learning back in march. we continue to update them. the guidance we put out recently for k-12 and higher learning is our guidance. we continue to expand that with different tools, like i was trying to complete.
we have a tool to help schools understand how to test for symptoms. we have a tool coming out on how to use facemasks in the school setting. we have a tool coming out for parents to understand a checklist of understanding whether their child should come out to school. so the vice president was referring to the additional tools that we have, that we're putting out. but there's not a change in our guidance. >> you know -- >> we'll continue to work with each -- >> you know the criticism that the cdc has already received, which is, you know, months ago there were guidelines or weeks ago, guidelines for churches. those guidelines were, you know, pushed back on hard by the white house. you ended up taking out a recommendation to not have choirs singing in enclosed spaces, which sounds like a good recommendation based on the super spreader cases we have seen and people in churches and choirs getting sick. that was removed. there was a guidance, an
extension for cruise ships months ago that the cdc removed under pressure from the white house. so it does seem critics are saying now, cdc is folding to political pressure from this white house. >> well, that's not correct. we continue to give the best guidance. it is correct to think that these guidances frequently go through an inner agent su proce -- agency process, but i can tell you that we continue to put out the best public health guidance we believe is important for the public health of this nation and to confront this pandemic. >> dr. redfield, i'm curious specifically about schools, in part as a doc but also as a dad. when you look at this guidance and parts obviously want to make sure their kids are as safe as possible, how good is the evidence when you talk about things like the masks, the six feet distancing, and you look at just the impact in schools overall, how good is the evidence in terms of how we can
decrease the spread at least within schools among kids? >> sanjay, it's really important. and i think one of the important things to put into the formula is, and i've said this, why i believe it's so important from a public health point of view to reopen these schools. i think when you look at the public health implications on mental health services that many of these services gather nutrition or just the socialization, that clearly we're looking at giving schools guidelines of a variety of different strategies that they can use to minimize acquisition of covid-19. whether it's the social distancing, whether it's the masks or how to space the desks, whether it's the scheduling, whether it's the decrease in the number of individuals, whether it's closing common spaces in cafeterias and gyms, not sharing different objects. but at the end of the day, these guidances are just that, guidances which the local schools and districts need to
then incorporate into a practical, real plan that they can operationalize to begin to get these young people back to school safely. and we continue to -- one of the other resources that we're working to put together now for schools is an evaluation and monitoring system, so we can understand how effective these school's plans are, on limiting covid transmission. >> do you agree with the president that the guidelines that were published by the cdc that are up there now are too tough and too, in some cases, too expensive and impractical? >> i think, anderson, that's a sort of mischaracterization. >> that's what the president said. >> well, i'm saying the guidance are there, and the guidance are there with a series of different strategies, which then each local jurisdiction can decide
how they want to use those strategies. so we stand by our guidance. we think it's an important strategy for helping these schools reopen. but i want to come back -- >> i don't understand. you said that it's a mischaracterization. do you mean it's a mischaracterization by the united states that the guidelines are too tough? >> no, not by the president. i do think there are individuals that may say this needs to be done, this needs to be done, this needs to be done. in reality, what we're saying these are guidances, these are not requirements. and each school district is going to look at how they can incorporate those guidances to make their school in a situation where they can reopen safely. i just want to come back to that, that that's the purpose, to be clear, the purpose of our guidance is to help facilitate schools to reopen and give them a variety of different strategies that we believe have
an important role in limiting the ability of this virus to transmit in a school sitting. if jurisdictions feel that there's obstacles to it, we'll work with them to find a common answer, because we want to get these kids back in school. >> do you have confidence, though, that anyone is going to listen to these guidelines? you put out guidelines and the coronavirus task force with great fanfare put out guidelines how states should reopen with carefully thought-out stages. i don't think any of the states that reopened followed those guidelines or certainly followed the stages of waiting for a certain number of cases to fall to a certain level. >> well, you know -- >> you must be frustrated. >> well, i can say and i've seen the joy that you have now as a new father, i happen to be a grandfather of 11. i can say that i think there's commonality in the schools, and the school leadership and the
teachers and administrators that we all want to protect the safety of the children that are in schools. that's really extremely important to all of us. and so i have a higher degree of confidence that the schools are going to look at this very seriously and how to operationalize these guidances in a practical way to get schools open. i want to come back to the comment i made earlier. there's really a public health crisis that we're paying by not having these schools open. i think we need to get these schools back open, and -- >> the problem -- all you're saying sounds -- sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt. continue. >> no, i was just going to say we'll work with the school districts to really work to basically get practical situations that they can reopen their schools safely. we'll monitor obviously these guidances in the school setting to see that we're not seeing
significant transmission. and allow the young people to get back and have the benefits of an education. >> all of that sounds rational and science based. but the president, who you are working for, and, you know, taking direction from, is saying that schools who do not reopen will lose funding and he says that the guidelines you put out to reopen are too tough, too expensive and too impractical. so i'm not sure how you have confidence that they're going to be listened to, or that schools are not going to be in fact punished by having pandemic funding removed from their budgets. >> well, again, anderson, i'm confident that there's a joint commitment to protect the safety and public health of the students in these schools. and that we're working to help accomplish that.
i'm confident that that obviously is what the president wants. that's what the cdc wants. i'm confident that's what the teachers and administrators want. we want these schools opened safely, and that's what this is about. it's going to be effort, and we'll have to work together to get this accomplished. >> we'll take a break. when we come back, more questions from dr. redfield. >> plenty on schools, as well, what the federal government is doing to make sure they are safe for kids and grownups alike. and later, what campus life look like. what if colleges reopened and how it will all play. that and more as we continue. to build unlimited right. you start with america's most awarded network, the one with unbeatable reliability 13 times in a row. this network is one less thing i have to worry about. (vo) then you give people more plans to mix and match so you only pay for what you need verizon unlimited plan is so reasonable, they can stay on for the rest of their lives. awww...
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we're back. cnn global town hall number 16. taking your questions for cdc director dr. redfield. >> dr. redfield, the cdc was wash ed warned that more needed to be done from almost the start. dr. jeffrey engle, epidemiologist, told cnn on many conference calls in january the cdc was being told that testing needed to be expanded and the virus was probably already circulating in early january. that seems like a significant
issue. why wasn't the cdc listening to these warnings and doing more at that time? >> well, you know, sanjay, i think it's important. we looked from a variety of different evidence lines to see if, in fact, that was true. you know, we had the first case reported in january, i think 22. and we've gone back and looked both in the flu surveillance studies in seattle. we looked at antibody testing in the region back ten. we learned at the evolution of the virus, claims data with cms, and we published this in our mmwr. there was not evidence of significant circulation of the virus prior to the mid to end of february. after that, we had substantial seeding of the virus, particularly coming from europe. developing the test was an important issue. we've been through that.
getting the private sector to come on board to develop testing was obviously slower than any of us would like. i think now we do have a robust capacity. but as you noted, we continue to have greater needs for more testing. even now we're over 600,000 tests a day, we continue to need more testing in this country to confront this outbreak and i anticipate that that capability will continue to come. but i think it's important that really there wasn't significant circulation back in january and february. i think we have strong evidence to support that conclusion. but clearly there's significant transmission across the country now. >> it's interesting, because you look at autopsy data even from january, there is some evidence that there was spread. nevertheless, the reason i ask, the cdc has traditionally been this pre-eminent health organization all over the world. they are the place people go to
for trust and guidance. i'm sure you worry a lot of that trust has been squandered because of those testing failures. a doctor told "the new york times" that this is now an agency that has been waiting its entire existence for this moment and they mostly flubbed it. sad, he said. do you agree with that assessment? the cdc is this preeminent health organization, i've been saying some time, they should have been given the keys to the kingdom, handled this from the start. but they didn't, but instead peter describes it as flubbed. what do you say to that? >> well, i obviously don't agree with that assessment from peter. i do think the cdc remains the premiere public health institution in the world. we have thousands of outstanding men and women that work 24/7 that work to serve this nation in this pandemic and other threats. i do think there's been a mischaracterization about "the
flub." we developed a test literally been probably seven to ten days from the sequence. that test was developed at cdc to put eyes on this outbreak for our departments. that test was never flawed, it works fine today as it did then. when we tried to expand that test, there was a manufacturing problem in one of the reagents that had to be corrected that took about five weeks. and then we corrected that. but the defect, the real defect from my point of view in the whole response was that the private sector took a long time to get involved to provide testing for the medical community at large. >> wait a minute, you think the defect is in the private sector. i understand the difficulty of moving things just from state labs to private sector, that wasn't done fast enough. but there was basically just sloppy lab work, according to "the new york times," in the
test kits themselves. as you said, that delayed things for five weeks. five weeks is a critical five weeks. >> well, i will say that there was evidence in the inquiry that was done, that there was contamination. again, that contamination was corrected. ly say, anderson, if you look historically about the pace in which we were able to develop a laboratory test for this new virus and deploy it, even with that five-week delay, is really still one of the most rapid engagements of a -- >> but the laboratory test, from what i understand, i'm certainly no scientist and you are a very respected scientist i should point out and a very well respected doctor. my understanding is that the test that was quickly developed essentially wasn't that much better than the tests that were already out there overseas. >> well, the test is an excellent test. i'm not going to compare it to others. again, the -- >> it's important to compare it to others, because you're
waiting to do your own test and there's sloppy lab work that delays that test for five works, and there's other tests overseas that are already available. >> that's not a true assessment, anderson. i want to just point out that for any test that want to come into the united states, they have to come in through the fda and regulatory process. that there was not another test available in the united states for use at that time. the first test that was available was the test that cdc was able to develop within the first ten days after the sequence was available in january. >> right. but that's not the lab work and you can't get the test kits out, it's five weeks, it's gone. >> the lab test was always available at cdc. you just had to ship it to atlanta. >> you know that the -- that's disingenuous. you know the criteria the cdc was using -- there was an
example of doctors in seattle or washington who sent -- or recommended some 600 different individuals to be tested. the cdc only approved some 200 or so of them, because the criteria you were using was so limited, because you weren't focusing on asymptomatic spread. even though on cnn in february, you said asymptomatic spread might be a problem, but the cdc didn't emphasize that publicly until later in march, i think. >> there's no doubt that the early case definition of using this test was narrowly linked to travel. i will say that no one ever precluded other universities or other state health departments, we published how to get to test and how to develop the test themselves. i do think cdc doesn't get a fair knock on this one. we developed a test rapidly, and in the attempt to make it easier for the states and manufacturing, there was a
manufacturing problem. i can tell you that the cdc won't be manufacturing tests when we develop them. we'll contract the manufacturers to develop tests in the future. but i do think that we really did a major public health service to the nation to develop that test, and, again, i think one of the lessons from this whole outbreak that i hope we learn, it's obviously something that korea learned from mars, to now to get a better linkage with the private sector to come in with the public health sector to develop the diagnostic requirements we need for the practice of medicine in this country. >> dr. redfield, so much of why we're asking about testing, was testing minimized? did we not do enough tests for some purposeful reason? the president still talks about testing. he was tweeting this week, he said for the 100th time, the reason we show so many cases compared to so many other
countries is because we test so much more. what do you make of that? does that hurt the effort to combat the virus to expand testing? my wife and girls got tested the other day and they waited four hours to get their testing still. that's now in july. why is it still so challenging? has testing been minimized or at least not accelerated appropriately in this country? >> you know, i don't think, sanjay, it's been minimized. but i will echo it is a critical piece, and that i've always said we need readily accessible, timely results, testing. it's fundamental. >> why don't we still have it, though? why don't we have that? july 9, why can't i get a test and be comfortable knowing i don't carry the virus? why aren't we at that point now? >> well, i have to say it's
probably just the overall production capacity. you know, that it's still increasing. as i said, it's gone from not long ago when it was 20,000 tests a day, now we're over 600,000. but it's not to say we're there. we do need more testing and breakthroughs, we need more rapid testing that can get results in real time. and i think we were glad that congress gave the cdc over $10 billion for the purpose for us to give money to the states so they could develop more testing. we got that money out probably four to six weeks ago. for them to have more capacity to do testing. so there is still a great need for expanded testing in this nation. there's a great need for expanded manufacturing of tests by the private sector, because i think the demand is only going to continue to increase. >> unfortunately, the man you're
working for is lying about testing. he's saying the only reason we have the cases we have is because we're testing so darn much that. is not true. dr. fauci said any state that's having a serious problem should shut down. should states like florida, california, texas, arizona, seeing huge increases, is shutting down something just from a, you know, as a doctor, as a scientist, that they should look at? >> well, i think the most important thing, anderson, that we need to do, and what they have we started to do is first and foremost, we have to -- everyone has to be wearing a face covering in public. it is really, i think, one of the most important things. we're not defenseless against this virus. if we social distance and wear a face covering, we are interfere with the human-to-human transmission oh of this virus.
secondly, we have to practice hand hygiene -- >> do you say this to the president? >> i want to finish. we have to shut down targeted business that foster irresponsible behavior like bars. sit very selective. but it is powerful. i will say one thing we've done in our household studies where we looked at how this virus transmits, those household where is the index case was diagnosed and they practiced what i said, they practiced social distancing and face coverings, there wasn't household transmissions. and those households that chose not to do that, more than 70% transmission. so we need to reinforce that social responsibility that we all have of basically social distancing and wearing a mask. and we have not been able to reach effectively the millennials and the generation x. and again, tonight, i peel appe
them. we're seeing a number of outbreaks across the nation. the most important weapon we have, please social distance. please wear a mask in public. please wash your hands. and please, basically let's not be going to bars right now. it's just not the time to do that. >> i mean, the most powerful, important ally you could have on your side would be a president of the united states who says what you just said. but, again, the person you work for does not say that at all. in fact, undercuts everything you say, virtually everything you say, your recommendations, your guidelines, urging people to wear masks with his own tweets and statements. and i'm sad that you're in that position, that we're all in that position. dr. redfield, i respect you. you are very respected doctor in your field. and i wish you the best in your work. it's not easy. thank you very much for being with us. >> thank you very much.
god bless. just ahead, more on the dilemma faced by colleges, universities of whether it's safe to open up in the fall. and somewhat's at stake for kids in k-12 classrooms. right now at t-mobile, switch your family of three or more from at&t or verizon to t-mobile essentials and save up to 50% off your current service and smartphones. keep your phones. and we'll pay them off. up to $450 each. only at t-mobile. ♪ ♪ we've always put safety first. ♪ ♪ and we always will. ♪ ♪ for people. ♪ ♪ for the future. ♪ ♪ and there has never been a summer when it's mattered more. wherever you go, summer safely. get zero percent apr financing for up to five years on select models and exclusive lease offers.
questions people are asking. you can tweet us your questions or leave a comment on the cnn facebook page. back now with sanjay. and dr. lina wen, an emergency room physician. i want to get to as many viewer questions. let's take a look. >> hi. my question is, i'm completely torn on whether or not to allow my 17-year-old son to go back to school for his senior year. we live in georgia, and it's become a hot spot. while we are extremely careful and wear masks in public, wash our hands and social distance, i know for sure he will not be able to keep a mask on throughout the entire day. and with having to switch classes every 45 minutes or so surrounded by thousands of kids, i'm scared he may catch it or bring it home to me. he has asthma, and it could be devastating. on the flip side, keeping him secluded and alone all day i know for a fact is not healthy
either. i have weighed both the pros and the cons, but both are equal ll scary. any advice for a single mom for a senior in a rising pandemic? this is beyond anything we've ever had to deal with. >> such an important question that annie is asking. what do you recommend, doctor? >> this is so hard, and this is that kind of challenging decision that's facing so many different families and teachers, too. my mother was a school teacher in los angeles. she just passed away, but she had breast cancer and was on chemo therapy the whole time she was teaching. teachers want to come back to in-person instruction, but it's hard because of their health conditions, too. so i don't have answers for annie. but i would ask about somewhat is the prevalence of the virus in your community? ask about your risk factors. so annie mentioned her son having asthma. asthma could increase the risk
of getting severe covid-19. but what about you? are you relatively healthy or do you have other risk factors? what about other people living in your household. think what are the procedures that the school has been putting into place? and also about what remote instruction is available as an option for vulnerable students and teachers, too. i know sanjay has kids in georgia and they have other ideas, too. >> i think that's a good point. i think the idea that we still don't have a lot of data that's informing these recommendations, that's the thing that i was struck with by dr. redfield. they make these recommendations, and we're not sure how much kids transmit this virus. there's been some contact tracing that suggest they get it less. but in terms of getting it more, we are not sure. all these things play a role. but as you mentioned, georgia, the numbers are going up. so every community has to look
at this community by community, based on what's happening there. the chance you'll come in contact with somebody carrying the virus is going to be higher. it's as simple as that. >> sanjay, i know you made a video. let's take a look. >> so i have three girls going into 10th grade, 8th grade, and 6th grade. so what's going to happen this fall is topic number one in our household and what's going to happen with schools. the american academy of pediatrics say kids physically in school is key to development. but case numbers continue to rise across the country. still not entirely clear, just how transmisible young kids are. th how likely are they to contribute to the spread? we know that school also have to do everything they can to try to keep kids safe, so it will look
different when you get to school this year. >> now, if there's anything we know about this virus, it doesn't like masks. so those are going to be required in all schools and it doesn't like distance. you see here, the teachers area, all six feet apart, well aware that a lot of districts can't do this. all the desks facing the same direction. if there's any virus, you want to go one direction opposed to mixing. there's this idea of cohorting. the same idea of cohorting. the same kids together. if someone does get sick it is easier to contact trace. another thing schools have to think about, trying to reduce areas where children will congregate. think about staggered start times for example. rotating classrooms. one way hallways. possibly even getting rid of common locker areas. or nother thing schools might start doing is having outdoor
classrooms or at least opening windows to improve ventilation in indoor classrooms. at the end of the day every family has to look at the risks and the rewards of sending their kids back to school. also pay attention to what is happening in your community. is the virus increasing or decreasing? that may play a factor in your decision. finally, use the rest of the summer to get your kids used to wearing masks which they have to do and of course washing their hands as much as possible. >> all good advice. dr. wen, thank you so much for being with us. we'll stay on the topic of schools and bring in scott galloway who is a professor at the nyu school. professor galloway when you look at the landscape for the upcoming fall semester universities are all over the map on what they're doing whether full in-person instruction, online, how do you see this playing out? >> so i think we're moving toward or i would say we're exiting the consensual hallucination phase where we thought things would be somewhat
back to normal. right now you have a spectrum of harvard going online, a hybrid, all the way to purdue still claiming they're going to welcome kids back to campus. a lot has changed. the curve, unfortunately, has not been crushed much less flattened. and i think we're coming to the realization there won't be any in-person classes. i think over time we will decide probably not to invite students to these small towns that i don't think are prepared for outbreaks. slowly but surely we are headed to a recognition universities and academic institutions are the warriors against the virus not the spreaders or enablers and i think slowly but surely we're moving to an all online fall semester, anderson. >> wow. >> you talked about harvard going fully digital for the fall semester. i know you say people are putting in deposits now, paying tuition, and then they'll be
told they're going digital. harvard's classes you compared to netflix which is an association i'm not sure any university wants to hear. what did you mean by that? >> well, somewhat snarky but there is some insight here. if you don't have the experience and you don't have in-person -- effectively what you have an institution that spends billions of dollars on content and then streams it to you over broadband. that looks, smells, and feels somewhat similar to netflix and disney plus who are charging you $120 a year and $80 a year and now harvard is effectively a streaming service charging $58,000 a year. so a lot of the reason that universities have been so reticent to acknowledge we're going fully digital and fully online is it turns on this very ugly light that this 40-year party of academic institutions raising tuition faster than inflation the lights have come on and it's pretty ugly in terms of the price value trade-off. a lot of us are coming to the recognition that, you know,
universities have become totally over priced and a lot of families are now saying, okay. i am not going to continue to engage in this trade-off if i can't -- if i'm only getting the certification, the education, not the experience. unfortunately our industry has to face the same economic pressures as every other industry and we haven't yet come to grips with that. >> i think i was in the hallucination phase when you first came on, professor, because i said you were with the tish school. i apologize. you're with the staern school of business at nyu. i apologize. >> no problem. >> i love the phrase by the way the hallucination phase. the trump administration decided to revoke visas of international students who enrolled at universities in online learning for next semester. how do you think that changes the landscape of what is to come? >> it's our cash cow. >> right. >> it's a million international students, $41 billion in revenue. nyu has 28% international students.
i would imagine that is 50% of our cash flow. so at best this is nothing but a xenophobic and wrong headed economic devastation of our economy. a half million jobs created by international students, $40 billion in revenue. some incredibly talented people. anderson, i think there is something darker here. i think that if you were to take the bluest state within every state it would be called the college town. and bloomington, indiana, hillary won by 17 points but in indiana as a state she lost by 17. so if you want to defund and neuter the sources of truth, these sources of evidence based research that call the president out on his philosophies, you would go after universities. i see this as something much darker that we are allowing the administration to neuter sources of truth and what have been neon blue districts in america. >> last time, professor, we spoke. you said something that i remember. you said i think we've kind of stuck out the mother of all
chins you said. and the fist of covid-19 is coming for us. obviously the us you're talking about, i think, is the university system of which you are a part. has your prediction come to pass? is it happening? >> there is no doubt. we'll see a financial destruction similar to what every other industry that stood shoulder to shoulder in the consumption of the product whether sports, restaurants, or, you know, any industry, or travel. it's coming. unfortunately we have not cut costs. we are still under the illusion that if we offer labs and studios and welcome people back or invite them back to the college towns it justifies these extraordinary costs but, no. those fists of stone are coming. it is about time. if we spend a fraction of the time, sanjay, as we do in these protocol meetings trying to improve the online offering and decrease the delta between online and offline learning we come out of this crisis stronger
and able to educate people for less money and increase those admit rates such that we could move back to a society where we have more freshmen seats and more upward mobility for more great middle class kids in this country. >> we just a minute. the delta between online versus in-person learning. you just used that phrase. how do you calculate that? what is the delta? how much difference is there? >> well, a lot right now but the reality is if you were to take 50% of the learning, 50% of the classes maybe where there is less interaction and more actual teaching or -- you could probably take between one-third to one-half of the classes online and with improvements in online learning not really substantially a rogue experience. it doubles the size of our campuses. at my university ucla we could go back from 13% admittance rates to where the admittance rates were in the 80s and 90s. this is a huge opportunity to substantially expand the number of freshman seats and again put
universities back in their role of expanding upward mobility for americans. >> we have to end it. i am so sorry. thank you. i am reading your book "algebra of happiness." i am really into it. i really like it. and also your podcast "the pivot" which i encourage people to listen to. thank you, sanjay. we thank everyone else who joined us tonight. also thanks to you who submitted questions. if you didn't get your questions answered the conversation continues cnn.com/coronavirusanswers. to build unlimited right. you start with america's most awarded network, the one with unbeatable reliability 13 times in a row. this network is one less thing i have to worry about. (vo) then you give people more plans to mix and match so you only pay for what you need verizon unlimited plan is so reasonable, they can stay on for the rest of their lives. awww...