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tv   CNN Newsroom  CNN  September 23, 2020 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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family at this moment and what they are dealing with. >> certainly. they feel this is outrageous. the indictment handed down, which has nothing to do with breonna taylor's death, has to do with the engagemedangerment people in an apartment next to hers. our special coverage will continue right now with kate baldwin. this is cnn breaking news. >> hey, everybody. i'm kate baldwin. thank you for joining us this hour. we're going to continue to follow the breaking news in the police killing of breonna taylor. a grand jury's decision announced just moments ago, saying that only one of the three officers involved in the shooting is being charged. former detective brett hankison, he is indicted on three counts of wanton endangerment. but none of the officers are charged with the killing of breonna taylor, the 26-year-old
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emt that was shot six times in the middle of the night on march 13th. sergeant mattingly, not indicted. detective myles cosgrove, also not indicted. the attorney general defende >> breonna taylor's death has become a part of a national story in conversation. but we must also remember the fact facts and the collection of evidence are different from cases elsewhere in the country. each is unique and cannot be compared. there will be celebrities, influencers, and activists, who having never lived in kentucky, will try to tell us how to feel, suggesting they understand the facts of this case, that they know our community and the commonwealth better than we do. >> taylor's family attorney,
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benjamin crump, he tweeted this a little bit ago. jefferson county grand jury intits brett hankison in first degree, for bullets that went into other apartments. but nothing for the murder for breonna taylor. this is outrageous and offensive. we go to the streets of louisville. we know that protesters have been gathering. first, let's get to jason carol, at the news conference, where we learned more detail. jason, lay out for us what we learned from the attorney general about the case that was presented to the grand jury and what the attorney general knows. >> reporter: a couple things first. there was a lot to unpack here. you hit the nail on the head. what we're talking about is all three of these officers, none of these officers, have basically been charged directly with
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breonna taylor's death. that's the headline. that's the bottom line here. if you look at what happened, and you look at what has been said and how the attorney general laid out his case. let's talk about myles cosgrove and john mattingly. those are two of the three officers that responded on march 13th. according to what the attorney general is telling us, the evidence showed that these two officers knocked and announced themselves. and he says that was cr corroborated by an independent witness. he says the two officers knocked and identified themselves. john mattingly first walked in when they were serving the no-knock search warrant. at that point, he saw a male and a female. the male opened fire. that would be breonna taylor's boyfriend. he opened fire, thinking that it was an intruder. it was someone else. remember, he says he never heard anyone identify themselves as police officers on that fateful
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night. so, the grand jurors decided they were justified in turning and shooting. and the other officer, and this was something that folks thought would be charged with something more serious, the thought this officer, hankison, would be charged with something more serious. he was charged with wanton engagement in the first degree. that was at the shooting of neighboring apartments. not at breonna taylor's apartment. you can understand the outrage on behalf of the family and the attorneys, that say all three of the officers should have faced criminal charges. all three of the officers were reckless on that night. but according to the attorney general, that is not the evidence they had. kate? >> jason, thank you so much for laying that out. i really appreciate it. so much more to get to right now. as you can see on the pictures
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on your screen, that's in louisville, kentucky. let's get to shimon. what are you hearing from folks? >> yeah, we were initially inside jefferson square park, where many of the protesters have been gathering for weeks. people waiting for word on this investigation. and they were watching it live. they understood immediately what was happening. they understood that nobody would be held responsible for the death of breonna taylor. the police, the attorney general, as we heard, a short time ago, talking about how essentially the officers were justified in firing their weapons. one of the weapons eventually kill i killing breonna taylor. the other people here are pretty upset. i spoke to one woman, she was crying. she said, how many more times does this have to happen?
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people feel this was unfair. people feel they were taken down a road. the family wanted manslaughter charges. some did want that. they were happy to hear a grand jury was investigating this. they understood immediately, when that decision was read in court, they knew immediately what was happening. you can see, probably a couple hundred here, we're in the area of germantown, in louisville. we're about four or five miles now. we've been marching since probably around 1:30 after the decision came from the grand jury. we're hearing a lot of chants about breonna taylor and justice. i want to tell you a couple things to give you quick color here. many of the neighbors and people who live in this community, all over louisville, have been supportive of the protesters. a lot of them coming out of their homes, cheering them on, supporting them. the police -- the police have been standing back. they've been in the distance behind a group that's been
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marching. small pockets of confrontation. but for the most part, the police have been letting them march through the streets. the big concern here is for tonight. as we've seen in these types of demonstrations in the evening hours, it's when things take a change. and the city is bracing for that. there's a curfew. there's a national guard. we walked here. we see the national guard is here. a couple of vehicles on the streets here, ready. the police here, there are federal law enforcement here, as well. curfew takes effect at 9:00. and all of downtown, all of downtown louisville, is basically shut down. people were told to go home. and stores have remained closed. we'll see. we don't know where we're marching here. i think this is the scene here, pretty much through the rest of the day, where we see protests and people come out and people that voice their unhappiness. it's anger. people in tears over what happened here today.
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kate? >> shimon, thank you so much. great work walking and giving us a picture of it. as you said, it's a big question of what happens tonight. hopefully it continues as you're seeing right there, peacefully protesting, expressing anger as they are. shimon, thank you to you and your crew. joining me is sedrick alexander, he's a law enforcement officer for 40 years and the president of the national organization for black law enforcement executives. and also, civil rights attorney, charles coleman. gentlemen, thank you for jumping on with me. sedrick, what's your reaction to what we have learned from the attorney general and the grand jury? >> well, i think the reactions are very evident, in terms of what you're seeing is taking place on the streets of louisville at this very moment. a lot of people are very angry and very sad, that the outcome is not what they certainly had
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hoped for. the issue here for me, the bigger issue, frankly, is that there has been a loss of trust in law enforcement. as you can see, people are feeling that way about it at the federal level and at the state level in this case and at the local level, as well. it becomes an issue around legitima legitimacy, who can people trust if they feel that their issues are not being addressed. the law is the law. the process is what the process is. i'm unable to question that. for me, as a former lawman, it brings to light in this incident, is that policing across this country is going to have to look at the way we do business. the way we do business in terms of the way we train and in the way that we do business as to how we go and acquire search warrants, whether they are no-knock or not. there's a question i would like answered, even though the officers report they were fired
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upon first, the question becomes also, did they have intelligence information that may have suggested that there could have been children inside that house. and if it were, how are you going to respond if you were fired upon? do you respond fire immediately? i wasn't there. none of us were there. the information and the evidence that has been reported thus far. people have a lot of questions that still need to be answered. for me, as a former law man, i think it's important, we got to look at procedures and we have to look at our policies and how these warrants are being issued and what preparation needs to be taken before one of these parents are executed because it certainly is going to require further intel than what we have acquired before. >> i want to delve into this deeper in a second. the attorney general made clear that the aspect you were talking about, was not part of his investigation at all.
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they were not charged with looking into the policework that led up to the warrant, to obtaining the warrant or to the briefing that led to the detectives, these officers, heading into that apartment at all. charles, your reaction? >> you know, i think a lot of what cedric said is important. but it's more important to put this within context, kate. what we're having a problem with is the lack of transparency that has been apparent throughout this entire situation and that has led to increased unrest on behalf of the community and throughout the country. we've had a lack of transparency from the prosecutor's office of what was going on and why it was taken so long. we had a lack of transparency before daniel cameron was the center of this conversation. when he attempted to blamake a a deal of implicating her in the drug activities in july.
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now, we have a lack of transparency regarding what took place in the grand jury. and it only underscores what is wrong with the criminal justice system in america right now. so, what we know -- in terms of what we listen to and what we heard from daniel cameron, when he talked about this indictment was that he was careful with respect to the language he used and did not use. he did not say he presented homicide statues to the grand jury for their consideration. what he said was, we walked the grand jury through all of the homicide statutes. speaking as a former prosecutor, i can tell you very clearly, had he presented homicide statutes to the grand jury, that's what he would have said. he did not present homicide statutes to the grand jury. and i see this as an attempt to split the baby and give law enforcement as much as they could in hanging their hat and giving the community something to hang their hat on at the same time. you cannot be all things to all
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people at the same time. and we see this very clearly here. daniel cameron talk eed greatly about the issue of justice and the notion of justice. i heard him talk about what justice meant and what justice dictated in this case. if you're asking for my initial thoughts, one of my initial thoughts is this has nothing to do with justice and this does not have a semblance of justice attached to it. >> charles, to that point, i do -- i believe i understand where you're headed with this. is this accountability? is this accountability for what happened? no charges directly related to breonna taylor's death. the attorney general said what he found was that, the officers were justified in the return of fire in the use of deadly force because they were fired upon. breonna taylor was innocent. she wasn't holding a gun. she was shot six times. >> that's what i'm talking about, kate. this is a situation that what you are telling us, what you
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want us to accept and go home with and digest and unpack, there was a woman who was asleep in her dead who is now dead and no longer with us. there was a law enforcement officer's bullet, who is responsible for causing that death. but yet and still, no member of law enforcement is responsible criminally for what we are talking about. speaking was an attorney, speaking as a former prosecutor, i understand they were executing a valid search warrant. i understand they were fired upon. and so, the notion that some of the officers may not have been unjustified in the use of force is not beyond me from a legal perspective. but again, looking at the bottom line, what you want me to accept and what you want our community to accept is that no one is responsible for this death and that is absurd. that's why it flies in the face of reason. that's why there should be outrage across the country about the fact that we do not have at least one homicide charge on this indictment, even if it's the reckless. >> let me read once again, as
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this is the first reaction that we have, cedric, from the family's legal team, from benjamin crump. he tweeted out the following. jefferson county grand jury indicts former officer brett hankison with three counts of wanton dangerment and first-free for bullets that went into other apartments but nothing for the murder of breonna taylor. benjamin crump saying this is outrageous and offensive. you have written eloquently, cedric, on -- and you talk about what happened to breonna taylor and describe it as a failure in policing. and i'm sitting here looking at -- i'm seeing people peacefully protesting in the streets. i'm seeing the outrage and the anger. and i hear the pain in benjamin crump's tweet here and anger in his tweet. where do we go from here?
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>> here again, i will go back to what i was saying initially. someone who is not an attorney, but a former law man. we have to go back and look at a lot of police reform in this country. we have to do it now. something your other guest just stated and is so true, is the whole idea around transparency. i've been saying this for years. what you do know, you share with the community, as you go along in your investigation. as long as it does not jeopardize the integrity of the investigation. but for an investigation to go 193 days and people don't hear anything from the attorney general, people go to the mayor's office looking for answers, which is mayor don't have because he's waiting to attempt to know what's going on, as well. he has to take the hits for it. the a.g.'s office is not as transparent as they could have been. and to drop the bombshell in this community today, it makes
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it very difficult. i understand why people feel the way they do. i think most of us with a conscious do. but in the state of kentucky, in terms of what their findings were today, they don't rise to the level of what people in that community have expected, we have to go forward and find a way where we're going to help reform the agencies across this country, all 18,000 of them, so we can do a better job at what we're doing in terms of being transparent, in terms of being responsible, and in terms of being accountable. but even more so, than that, right now, than the legitimacy, that our government is losing every day with everyday common people is difficult for us to follow. that loss of trust, even at the federal level, at the state
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level, in this case, and even at local levels. making it difficult for all of us. we're going to have to find our way back from this. but it's going to take leadership in which people feel they can totally trust because right now, it is up to the government to just be honest and open. >> kate, i want to jump in if i can on that last point and talk about the fact that, this is also a conversation that requires us to reimagine our criminal justice system and looking at the relationship between prosecutors and law enforcement. i have long said that law enforcement and d.a., in terms of police and district attorneys, they're in bed with one another in a way that is almost inseparable and deeply problematic for citizens. i saw it when i was a prosecutor. and you see it now. there's been a lot made about daniel cameron's promises to cater to the police community,
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that he made during election season. and i'm not trying to politicize this conversation. however, what you have seen in this instance, and in instances across the country, are those promises coming to bear, where law enforcement has looked at a candidate who promised to make them sort of above the law, if you will. and he has had to deliver. and that is part of what we saw driving the decision today. i'mvinced regarding how the office came down to respect of this indictment. >> gentlemen, thank you. we're going to take a quick break. obviously, we're going to stick very close. we're keeping an eye on what's happening in louisville and honestly, what this means for action across the country. our breaking news coverage continues, as demonstrators are on the streets of louisville. the grand jury decision of breonna taylor's death, what it means. it's now setting in. still fresh...
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we're continuing to follow the breaking news out of louisville, kentucky, where people are gathering in the streets as we speak. this is after a grand jury handed down its decision of one of three officers involved in the deadly police shooting of breonna taylor is indicted. former detective brett hankison was charged with three counts of wanton endangerment in the first degree. but none of these charges and no one is charged with anything directly related to breonna taylor's death. the three counts have to do with the endangerment of people in a neighboring apartment as shots rang out. drew is joining me now. you talked to the neighbors of breonna taylor.
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what did they tell you about that night? >> reporter: a couple of things. of the three neighbors we talked to, not one of them heard anybody shouting police. one person admitted they heard shouting. the other two did not hear any knocking, and that includes the direct neighbor of breonna taylor, the person who, with her son, and boyfriend who was there that night, are the subjects of the three indictments by the grand jury. that apartment is directly next door. she did not hear anything about the police knocking. we did not speak to the one witness that the attorney general spoke of. we know during that night that one neighbor did poke his head out, according to police, and was told to get back inside. i assume that was him. remember, this was late at night. a lot of people were sleeping. even police did say their names or shout their names, if anybody understood what was happening or who was at that door, kenneth
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walker said they had no idea it was the police. >> drew, what about the shots that rang out, that said would endanger people in the apartment next door. what about that? >> this shows you how reckless this shooting was from hankison. and why he was fired. he was fired long before today when he was indicted. the neighbors that witnessed hankison's shots, it almost sounded like a fit of rage. he actually came out to the street, according to witnesses, and fired into the sliding glass door and window of breonna taylor's apartment. he didn't know what he was firing at. he couldn't see. the windows were closed and the drapes were closed. those bullets traveled through the pampapartment and into the apartment in the back. they share a wall. i would assume a wallboard wall. those were the bullets that whiz by a sleeping 5-year-old, a woman and her friend who is
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spending the night and put them in danger, even though they had nothing at all to do with this. so, that is where the charges come from. the attorney general said there's no evidence that any of those bullets, the ten bulls fired by hankison, ended up inside breonna taylor's body. i assume that's why he wasn't charged with a homicide in this case. but the real question is how the police got to breonna taylor's door that night. and that was sloppy police work. >> and not part of the attorney general's investigation. this is a crime that has to be look into.
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how did they end up there? >> and remember, kate, the three officers who were at that door that night, who were part of this tragedy, right? had nothing to do with the planning. they were merely being told, here's the warrant. go do this. so, all that detective work was done by somebody else in the department. and i think that's why, at this particular moment, you don't see any charges related to that. if there are charges, can you charge somebody with just being a terrible police detective? i'm not a lawyer, i don't know. but it is very, very sloppy policework that led to this tragedy. >> drew, thank you.areva martin. can i get your reaction to what we've learned in the past two hours? >> yeah. kate, i wish i could say i was surprised. but unfortunately being here so many times before, speaking to you, speaking to other anchors
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about these police shootings, i'm not at all surprised. one of the things the attorney general says that incensed me, he tried to admonish what he called outsiders and influencers and celebrities who were trying to tell people in kentucky what to do. it is because of those outsiders and the protesters, that we're having any level of accountability in this case. without the protesters in those streets, for days and months and years, i doubt we would be at this point where we are today. i took great offense to that statement that he made. and maybe even the dig at beyonce because she wrote a letter to the attorney general asking him to file charges against the officers. as a civil rights attorney and a cnn legal analyst, that's been here before, i am not surprised before. i am deeply disappointed. >> one thing that drew but
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mentioning. leading up to obtaining the warrant, he says the fbi is doing that. does he know why the police were sent to that apartment? >> absolutely, kate. and he gave us no explanation why his office was involved in that investigation. we know from media reports, that the information in the warrant were faulty and was perhaps false information. we know there was no drugs, no cash, no weapons. whatever the information was that was put into that warrant that was signed by the circuit judge, it was not accurate. after 190-plus days of waiting
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to a statement from the attorney general, we're not closer to any explanation as to why that warrant was issued and why they targeted breonna taylor's apartment. >> yeah. accountability. that should run all the way through. areva thank you very much. we're going to continue to track this. we're watching what's playing out in louisville and across the country and we'll continue to be. also happening today, fiery testimony from top health officials in washington on capitol hill. we want to bring that to you. and also, we have breaking news. dr. deborah birx, one of the top officials on the white house coronavirus task force, she's questioning how long she can stay on that task force. (grandmother) thank you for taking me home. it's so far. (young woman) don't worry about it, grandma! this'll be fun. (young woman) two chocolate milkshakes, please. (grandmother) make it three. (young woman) three? (grandmother) did you get his number? (young woman) no, grandma! grandma!! (grandmother) excuse me! (young woman vo) some relationships get better with time. that's why i got a crosstrek. (avo) ninety-seven percent of subaru vehicles sold in the last
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the nation's top health officials testify on capitol hill today on the very latest of the coronavirus pandemic. this is one day after the country hit that horrific and tragic milestone of 200,000 deaths from the virus. the nation's top infectious disease expert is among those that testified. he told the senate committee they will know by november or
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december if a vaccine is effective and safe. but that is not next month as president trump has promised. as for the president's claim that we have rounded the corner on the virus, as he puts it, the cdc director, dr. robert redfield, he threw cold water on that, with this warning today. >> the cdc is performing large-scale testing across the united states. the preliminary results show that most americans have not been infected with the virus and are vulnerable to the infection, illness and death. a majority of our nation, more than 90% of the population remains susceptible. >> his warning comes amid growing fears about a deadly fall and winder er inwinter in. 1,000 deaths were reported yesterday from covid, with daily cases approaching 40,000. nearly half of all of the states in the country are reporting an
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increase in new cases over the past week. and just look at the map. there's a lot of red and orange, particularly in the midwest and west, that is troubling health officials right now. let me bring in cnn's elizabeth cohen. you're talking to officials regularly and watching what played out in this hearing today. there was an extraordinary exchange between dr. anthony fauci and senator rand paul. tell me about that. >> you know, watching dr. fauci testify in public hearings over and over again over many years, he handles questions of members of congress, even if they are inane questions, and sometimes they are, very evenly. it's rare, i haven't seen it before ever, that he gets cross with a member of congress, to use an old-fashioned term. he rarely gets cross. but let's take a listen to what
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happened today between dr. fauci and senator paul. >> you've lauded new york for their policy. new york had the highest death rate in the world. how can we be jumping up and down saying that governor cuomo did a great job? he had the worst death rate in the world. >> you've misconstrued that, senator. you've done that repetitively in the past. they're looking at the guidelines we have put together from the task force of the four or five things of masks, social distancing, outdoors more than indoors, avoiding crowds and washing hand hands. or they developed enough community immunity they are haven't the pandemic. >> i challenge that, senator. please, sir, i would like to be able to do this. this happens with senator rand all the time. you are not listening to what the director of the cdc said, that in new york, it's about 22%.
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if you believe 22% is hurd immunity, i believe you're alone in that. >> let's unpack that last point a little bit. what dr. fauci was saying is new york is doing well not because they reached superhigh levels of immunity. they didn't reach hurd immunity, serology tests and blood tests, show that 22% of people in new york have immunity. that's not why things got better. things got better because new yorkers did the right things. he was really challenging the basic facts of what senator paul was saying. >> he was talking about the talk of being a quote/unquote deep state in the cdc. what did he have to say about
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that? a i'll play what he had to say and then talk about it. >> i want to add how disappointed i have been personally when people at hhs made comments they felt there was a deep state down at cdc. i will tell you, these are dedicated men and women they are working on the outbreak itself, 1,200 deploying and it's offensive when i hear this kind of comment. in my 22 years in the military, you never knew people's political perspective. that's the same about the men and women at cdc. they are dedicated to protect the public health of this nation. and i know you all understand that. people don't understand the ability to suck energy out of people working 24/7, to get unfairly characterized. and that's the real harm in all
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of this. >> what did you think of that, elizabeth? >> you know, there is a theory that the only reason that things aren't going so well, is because of the deep state. president trump does everything perfectly. it's the career employees, the deep state, they're trying to undo all of the good that president trump is doing. that is simply not true. it's an excuse for failure. and so, it is really very good to hear dr. redfield defending his employees and saying there's no deep state here. these are career cdc ep ep deemologists that are trying to lead this country, out of this situation and working hard and doing the very best they can under extremely difficult circumstances. i was glad to hear him defend these people and to undo this crazy right-wing hetheory.
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>> yeah. good to see you, elizabeth. thank you. amid important testimony, there were new questions being raised right now about the white house coronavirus -- the white house coronavirus task force and one of the nation's top health experts. sources tell cnn that dr. deborah birx has become distressed about the task force and whether she can remain in her role of the coordinator. this is great reporting by jim acosta. tell us more about what you're hearing about where birx's head is right now. >> what i'm hearing from my sources is the white house coordinator of the white house task force, is so upset about her diminished role in the response to covid-19, she's not certain how long she can remain in her current position. birx told people around her she is distressed with the direction
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of the task force, describing the response to the coronavirus as nightmarish. according to people familiar with her thinking, birx views dr. scott atlas, who is a recent addition and controversial addition to the task force, is on president trump's take of the virus. her view, the president has found somebody who matches what he wants to believe. this source went on to say of birx, there's no doubt that she feels that her role has been diminished. birx, i'm told, believes that at the lass is feeding the conversation about the efficacy of face masks about controlling the spread of the virus. and the president has been holding rohold ing rallies where the crowds refuse to wear masks. and the president has mocked joe biden for using them. and, kate, we all know that dr. birx became a household name in the early weeks of the pandemic.
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appearing in the news conferences in the white house briefing room to offer the sober warnings about the threat posed by the virus. as you may know, birx is spending less time with the president and less time in the press conferences. now, she is on the road, dispatched to raise awareness of the administration's pandemic efforts, in states where cases of covid-19 are surging. i should point out a separate source who is close to birx told me it is not likely she will step down right now. she is a, quote, good soldier. the source said her frustration is understandable, given this diminished role she has right now. we reached out to dr. birx and the white house. the white house said in a statement to us earlier this afternoon, that any notion that her role or anybody's role inside the task force has been diminished is false. kate? >> jim, thank you. we appreciate your reporting on this. much more ahead for us this hour. we've got a breaking news
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coverage continuing. you can see on the side of your screen, outrage on the streets of louisville, kentucky, as the attorney general there announced the grand jury's decision in the breonna taylor killing. one officer charged, no officers charged, though, directly in the death of breonna taylor. we'll be right back. ♪ you must go and i must bide ♪ but come ye back when su-- mom, dad. why's jamie here? it's sunday. sunday sing along. and he helped us get a home and auto bundle. he's been our insurance guy for five years now. he makes us feel like we're worth protecting. [ gasps ] why didn't you tell us about these savings, flo? i've literally told you a thousand times. ♪ oh, danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling ♪ i'm just gonna... ♪ from glen to glen
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rakuten is free to sign up and it's in over 3,000 stores. i use it to buy makeup... travel... ...clothes, electronics to me, rakuten is a great way to get cash back on anything you buy. sign up today and get cash back with rakuten. welcome back, everyone. we're continuing to follow breaking news out of louisville, kentucky. i'm looking at this for the
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first time with you as protesters have been on the streets of louisville, kentucky. right now they are facing off -- whoa. let's see what -- they're facing off with police in kentucky. to this point in all of the shots that i've seen, it has been very peaceful. we're seeing some shoving back and forth at the moment. let us hope this remains peaceful. we are keeping a very close eye. as you can see, tempers, anger, outrage over the decision that was handed down by a grand jury and announced by the attorney general of kentucky in the death and killing of breonna taylor. >> wait, what? >> we're keeping an eye on these pictures. benjamin crump and the legal team representing breonna taylor's family, they just released a statement on the grand jury decision. and, look, it's a lengthy statement, but it is important to read in a moment, in full in a moment like this, important for everyone to hear as the nation is struggling. let me read it for you.
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this from benjamin crump and the legal team. this is outrageous and offensive to breonna taylor's memory. it's yet another example of no accountability for the genocide of persons of color by white police officers. with all we know about breonna taylor's killing, how could a fair and just system result in today's decision, benjamin crump asks. her killing was criminal on so many levels. an illegal warrant obtained by perjury, breaking into her home without announcement. more than 30 gunshots fired many of which were aimed at fired bl every room of her home. a documented and clear cover-up, the legal team says. and the death of an unarmed black woman who posed no threat and who was living her best life. yet here we are without justice for breonna. her family and the black community. if hankison's behavior
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constituted wanton endangerment -- i'm going to pause right now as we're looking -- i'm sorry. we're going to look at this. police are now very clearly getting into some very serious confrontations with protesters on the streets of louisville. [ screaming ] charles is joining me right now. i'm seeing what's playing out on my monitor. this is pretty surreal. talk to me about what you say and what you think in this moment as we're looking at this. because these protesters, i don't know if i've seen any -- >> someone in the control room now! >> i think kate as we have this conversation and we look about what's happening in louisville right now, what is very likely to happen across the country, it's very important that we understand something that comes from this indictment. we just saw a wall, a wall in an
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apartment receive more justice than a dead black woman. and i think that as chilling as that sounds for us to process, when you think about what that means in the context of our history as black people in america, it only adds salt to the wound in terms of how insulting and outrageous the ultimate result of this indictment was. from the very beginning, i talked about the lack of transparency in this case. i talked about the fact that there was a lot of blame to go around. daniel cameron has shouldered the brunt of it. but let's be clear, the blood of breonna taylor is on the mayor's hands. it is also on the hands of thomas who attempted to give a plea deal.
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and so it's not just by daniel cameron. this is a much bigger conversation. >> it absolutely is. and what we're looking at right now. people started gathering on the streets even before the grand jury's decision came down. they started walking -- protesters were walking peacefully, and this just changed very quickly as protesters came upon police. i think i've counted -- that man looks like he is bleeding. i think i've seen three people on the ground taken down on the ground by police. it is not clear what transpired that led to this. but things have escalated very quickly as police clearly are trying to get this under control. in these moments ooh isit and i watch myself. you now have one, two, three, four, five people sitting on the ground with their hands tethered
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behind their backs waiting to see what happens next. a large part of what is driving this is mistrust in law enforcement. and what we are about to witness right now is the probable display of that in camera in front of america to see with respect to these protesters and police and law enforcement's response. so we're already having a conversation about law enforcement and improper and excessive use of force. what we are unfortunately witnessing now is the furtherance and the support with evidence right before our very eyes of exactly what we are complaining about to begin with. >> but, charles, also, what would you say to the people who are on the streets of louisville right now? how do you lower the temperature in this moment of real despair and real grief and pain that we can see?
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>> you know, kate, i understand that question, and it is a logical and a reasonable question. but, quite frankly, the most logical and reasonable answer that i have for you is that should've been a concern of daniel cameron, of everyone else who was involved with this case, thomas wine, the officers who entered that apartment. even though this is where we are, this is not the first time that this has happened. this is the result of a countless list of names. i've on the conversation on this network a number of times regarding name after name after name of humans turned into hash bags. this is a black woman who was in her home sleeping doing nothing. so while i can understand the need to call for peace and while i do not want to see anyone hurt, while i don't want to see any violence take place and i do not advocate for it, i think
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that it is unfair and unjust to have the conversation about how do we quell protests now or the violence now or the reaction when, in fact, the conversation is, was, and always has been why are we continuously finding ourselves in these positions? >> i 100% hear exactly where you're coming from. i'm just now looking at this and thinking it's 3:58 in the afternoon. curfew is supposed to be setting in tonight. they said it's going to be put in place in the county from 9 to 6:30 in the morning. and this curfew is going to go on for 72 hours. and this is what's happening in broad daylight. i'm really scared what's going to happen this evening, charles. >> to be honest with you, there is a need for concern. i think that there is a need for concern not just in louisville, in kentucky, but across the country. we saw a significant amount of
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momentum that was built during the spring and summer months around the unrest in america with its racial reckoning and its conversation about race and oppression. with the exception of breonna taylor's case and jacob blake's case, we've seen some of that die down. it is very likely that this could be the powder keg that sort of ignites that all over again. i am hopeful that perhaps it can bring the momentum back in a way that's constructive and meaningful. but of course to have to be mindful that there are forces at play when you're talking about sheer emotion, sheer anger that can lead to this type of destruction. and so of course nobody wants to see that. but, again, this should serve as a reminder to the rest of the country that, hey, this conversation is far from over. it's far from finished and we have to continue to have it. we cannot sweep it under the rug. >> that gets exactly -- i have to tell you charles to what
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benjamin crump and his legal team are putting out in the statement, their final comment is make no mistake, we will keep fighting this fight in breonna's memory. we will never stop saying her name. we are continuing to follow this breaking news. "the lead" with jake tapper picks up right now. this is cnn breaking news. >> and welcome to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. and we're going to start with breaking news in our national lead. right now there is a very heated face-off going on between protesters and police in kentucky where a grand jury this afternoon indicted and the state attorney general charged one police officer after the deadly police shooting of breonna taylor in louisville back in march. but taylor's family is angry that no officers have been charged with killing breonna taylor. their lawyer is calling the decision by the kentucky attorney general,