the conclusion, jim, that the president is a danger to himself tonight people around him as well as to the country. >> and dr. fauci said the death toll could double this winter to 400,000, which is a very large multiple of the number of deaths during a typical flu season. john harwood, thank you very much. let's go to jason carroll in salt lake city. there was a debate before tonight's debate about plexiglas barriers. pence's team making teenage comments about it at first but now it's up. so what led them to cave on this? >> well, i think it was stephen miller, right? i think that was sort of the straw that broke the camel's back here. when you look at the fact that katie miller, which is stephen miller's wife, is the vice president's press secretary and even though the vice president and his office raised objections to putting the plexiglas up here

in the debate hall, they had done that all the way up until very, very late last night and finally decided they changed their minds. so the plexiglas is up. and this plays right into the hands of what senator harris is going to be doing tonight in terms of trying to portray the vice president and the president as being sort of one in the same, locked in step in terms of the administration's failure on coronavirus. now, the vice president for his part will do what he can to try to portray senator harris is being too liberal, too progressive for the country. as for the debate itself, one debate over in terms of the plexiglas but in terms of the format of the debalt and what some of other things will look like, candidates will be 3 feet and 12 inches apart from each other. the moderator will be susan page from "usa today." masks will be required by all attendees.

there's also been a question about the tone of the debate tonight. what will that be like given what we saw at the presidential debate? you do know that both of these candidates have a reputation of being very skilled debaters, being able to make their point without yelling or screaming or name-calling. one particular observer told me he expects tonight's debate to be an actual debate of the issues, something that we didn't see during the last presidential debate. >> civility. civility and answer would be quite a sight. jason, let's hope for it. >> what a novel idea. >> can you imagine? joining us now, our chief medical expand he ate dr. sanjay gupta on a very serious note. good morning, sanjay. good to have you. >> good morning. >> stephen miller tests positive for coronavirus and the deputy press secretary saying last night, erin burnett, pressing him on when is the last time the president had a negative covid test, he said he didn't know.

this is not just a point of curiosity, right? major health implications on this. >> yeah, and i should point out, somebody knows. i mean, this isn't something that you have to sort of figure out. it is a known fact. it's probably the white house medical unit do know the answer to this question. so there's an answer here. but it's really relevant as you point out for a few different reasons but one is it will help better figure out who else may have been in contact the with president at a point when he was contagious. knowing his last negative test if in fact he was getting tested daily or regularly would be really helpful. but also now going forward trying to figure out what is the clinical course likely to be for the president? how long is he likely to be sick? how long is he likely to continue to be contagious? it's an important data point, and one that is known, i'm certain of it. >> just quickly on that point before we get to the death toll

for the country, is the president likely to still be contagious based on what we know? if you or i had it this many days out, would we still be contagious? >> i think so. what we really have to go on is the symptoms that he has. if you look at symptoms and large data sets you say okay, from the onset of symptoms, how long is someone contagious, first of all we know a couple of days before they develop symptoms they're usually the most contagious. if you develop symptoms thursday, that would mean wednesday of last week and tuesday of last week he would have been perhaps the most contagious. but at least ten days or so after symptoms is when people are considered potentially contagious as well. >> 400,000, dr. fauci now says 400,000 u.s. deaths of covid are possible by this winter? >> you know, this is very much -- this is hard to hear, i

realize, it's very much in line with the same models that we heard from university of washington, the models that the white house use. when you look and start to peer into these models you see, sadly, we're averaging close to 700 to 1,000 deaths per day. what the models show is that over the next several weeks the death toll will start to increase in many places. if you start to do the math on that, that they say by december it could be well into 2,000, maybe even more people dyeing every day. i hate saying this stuff. it's tough to believe. it didn't need to be this way, something we talk about all the time. but, yes, 410,000 was the projection for my hme while at the same time the projection jumps around but they say 100,000 of those lives could be saved if we had 95% mask wearing. so it's hard to hear but it sort

of tracks with everything else we've been hearing. >> we have a vice presidential debate tonight. candidates now 12 feet and a couple inches apart, plus plexiglas barriers. we assume more rigorous testing prior. safe in your view under the circumstances? >> well, you know, jim, no, it's not safe. i don't think we can say this is safe. it is trying to mitigate the potential problems here but, look, the safest thing to do -- and this isn't anything anybody wants to hear, but the safest would be to do it virtually, right. but if you start to think overall how this virus moves around, the plexiglas may help with respiratory droplets, the idea people are putting out respiratory droplets. but just over the past couple of days the cdc put up guidance on their website again that we've known for a long time, this virus can also spread via

aero-sols, that means it can be suspended in the air, it can last longer than a few minutes, maybe even a few hours, and it can travel more than six feet. so we're not talking about an environment totally safe here. virtual would be better, obviously safest. outside where you have significant air exchange would probably be the next best. having no audience because anybody -- even if they're wearing masks could potentially be putting a little bit of virus into the air. the candidates, you know, should be wearing masks or at least when they're not talking be wearing masks. i know none of this is going to happen but the idea of is this safe, we should be very clear that they're trying to make the best of a bad situation here. even the testing, which you brought up, jim, overseen by the cleveland clinic, what they retire is 72 hours -- within the last 72 hours a negative test result, okay. that is submitted by the campaigns themselves and it can be any sort of emergency use

authorized test, whether it's the antigen test or more gold standard pcr test. any of those can be used. the picture i'm painting is of people trying to do whatever they can but it's not safe and it has a lot of -- it's porous. there's lots of different things that could potentially be a problem here. >> sanjay, the president attacked the fda on twitter and actually tagged the commissioner in a tweet saying their new guidance makes it, quote, more difficult to speed up vaccine approval by election day. that is a stunning statement. it makes clear his deadline. can you explain what the grinds say and why having months of data matter so much? >> yes, sure. we spent a lot of time, and i have talked to dr. hahn himself about this and other data scientists. it's basically this, if the side effects are going to occur with these vaccines, they typically occur within the first two months. stephen hahn has said this, the chief adviser to operation

warped speed said this. that's where the two-month time frame came from. it will not catch all side effects but should catch a significant number of side effects if they you are occur. if you wait to months and make sure the safety data is there, that should be pretty good in determining if it's a safe vaccine. the president had already sort of hinted he may not approve those guidelines. the fda has said we're going to go for it anyways. the manufacturer of the vaccines have indicated they would not submit for authorization until they had that sort of data. i think that's going to be really, really important and i think it's worth pointing out again, it should be celebrated that this vaccine, if it does get authorized, will be the fastest vaccine we have ever created as a human society. it's the moon shot. like in july 1969 if they said you can't wait until july of '69 to send a man to the moon, you have to do it in january and forget the safety things, that's

what we're talking about here. you need the safety data, which the fda is sticking to. >> it's already fast, that's the point. dr. sanjay gupta, thank you very much. >> thank you. the former director of the cia and the nsa, 40 years of military and intelligence, served both democratic and republican administrations, he is now endorsing joe biden and offering a full-throated warning of what four more years of trump would look like. up next, listen to my interview with general michael hayden. and after the president abruptly halted stimulus negotiations last night, any new relief that would have allowed airlines to bring back thousands of furloughs workers, it is gone. we're going to talk about the real implications for them next. t has 4x more hydrating power than the $400 cream. for skin results you'll see, or your money back. olay. face anything. for even more hydration, try olay serums.

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welcome back. strong words and a stark warning from retired general michael hayden. he is the former director of the cia and nsa, having served under both republican and democratic administrations. this morning he is throwing his support for president behind joe biden. >> i'm mike hayden. i was the former director of the cia and the nsa. if there was another term for president trump, i don't know what happened to america. truth is really important, but especially in intelligence. the president trump doesn't care about facts. >> we're fortunate to be joined now by retired general michael hayden. general hayden, thank you very much for joining us this morning. >> thank you. >> general, you served more than

40 years in military and intelligence. you served both democratic and republican presidents. tell us why you have chosen to speak out now, and why you believe president donald trump doesn't keep this country safe, as you say. >> yes, indeed. you know, i watched it very closely, and now i'm afraid that i don't think the president does think well at all. i'm very sad about that, but i think he can't do another term. it would be very, very bad for america. >> you say in particular that trump doesn't care about facts, he didn't care about the truth. why is that important? >> it's very important. you know, with intelligence, things are hard. sometimes we're right and

sometimes we're wrong, but we are doing things to do something about it. but trump doesn't do that. he, for example, talking to the russians, he doesn't do the things presidents should actually do. so what i was saying in my second book before my throat, i said, "truth, what is truth with that man"? and i think it's not truth at all. >> did his unwillingness to warn away russia, whether it be on bounties on u.s. soldiers or interference in the election or the poisoning of the russian opposition leader, does that in your view give russia grien light? >> it does, okay.

now, look, i know people involved in american intelligence. they're really good people and they're trying to do the right thing. but if the government -- if the president doesn't want to do that, it's very hard for them to do that. and i have watched it now for three or four years, and i think the president won't want to do that at all. i'm really, really sad about that. by the way, if he's elected a second time, i think what american intelligence and a lot more will be gone. >> will be gone. it's a remarkable assessment given your experience here. in particular, you mention the danger to key u.s. alliances. what happens to u.s. alliances such as the nato alliance in a

second trump term? >> yes, indeed. i think, you know, for 10, 20, 30, 40 years i was with them and i talked with our friends in korea and in europe and so on, okay, and i talk with them now. people would say what's going on? i thought this was america. but now i'm not sure. if it's a second term, i think we will be alone. we will not have any friends at all. >> america alone. it's an alarming prospect. >> yes, indeed. you know, our friends are our friends but now i'm not sure at all. again, in a second term, i think it will be very, very bad. >> final question -- >> yes. >> you mention in your video

that you disagree with many of joe biden's policies. >> yes. >> but that in your view, this is a question of character. tell us what you mean by that. >> absolutely. you know, i like the vice president, okay, but some of the things i would say, oh, i don't think so and so on and we will disagree with him. and if he's president, i will say i like this one but i don't like that one. but mr. trump, he's really -- i don't know what's going on with our people, you know. it's really sad for me to say that. policies will come and go. that's okay. but this is very, very different. >> general hayden, thank you for your service to this country, and thank you today for your candor. >> thank you again.

thank you a lot. >> it's good to have you on. >> so, so good to hear from him. still ahead -- former vice president joe biden calling for unity and pledging to lead the nation out of the pandemic. this as the president remains in denial about health and financial, so two fallouts from not following protocols with covid and also confusion for millions of americans over economic stimulus and aid. we'll discuss the two contrasting messages ahead. to stir that fire, university of phoenix is awarding up to one million dollars in scholarships through this month. see what scholarship you qualify for at phoenix.edu.

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welcome back. 27 days to the election and the president's messaging to the american people can be described as chaotic, contradictory, sometimes outright misleading. despite being infected with covid-19 and growing outbreak inside the white house itself, the president says he will debate next week. >> that's right. on twitter also the president announced overnight that he was just ending stimulus talks completely until after the election. only a few hours later to sort of like half kind of backtrack

saying, he would like to see smaller, separate deals for the airlines and businesses. let's bring in our senior analysts. good morning to you guys. i have tried to sort of game out any political scenario this is beneficial for a president whose strongest asset has been maybe up until now the numbers on the economy. i don't get it, why do this and leave millions of americans hanging in the balance? >> i think you may be looking a little too hard for strategy. a president who's always had impulse control issues, who's been erratic on a good day, now seems to be quite literally on steroids in those qualities. and this was something greeted with absolutely kbaflemebafflem his campaign aides and the white house. the negotiations have been going

on for weeks between nancy pelosi and mnuchin and the president derailed them in a tweet. it doesn't serve the country and more importantly the american people and small businesses who in particular desperately need that next round to go on. makes no sense because it doesn't make sense. >> francesco chambers, we saw a very different message from the vice president yesterday. a speech at gettysburg, a meaningful location but different appeal to the american people about what his campaign is about. i want to play a clip of that and get your comment. >> i'm running as a proud democrat but i will govern as an american president. i will work with democrats and republicans. i will work as hard for those who don't support me as those who do. that's the job of a president. >> it is not unlike barack obama's message in 2008, we're not red states or blue states,

we're the united states of america. i wonder given the division today in this country, is that a message that appeals to a large number of voters, a successful political message in your view? >> certainly looking at the polling that we have seen recently, especially in these ba battleground states like pennsylvania, a must-win state in this election, his message is resonating with the american people and you see the president now trying to come up with a knew strategy and new message after having contracted covid but now he's just doubling done on what he had been saying about coronavirus. and even amping it up saying that americans who contract it will beat it, despite the fact more than 210,000 people who have contracted it in america have died from coronavirus. and his campaign is really taking queues from him and the white house as they push a similar message now after suggesting over the weekend that they could have a different

message. they're just following the same old playbook. >> john avalon, there were a number of republicans that spoke out last night when the president put the kibosh on stimulus talks. susan collins slammed it, calling it the wrong decision. new york congressman said he disagrees with the president and we cannot afford not to do this right now. let me show you "the wall street journal" editorial board headline, taxpayers ransom demand. and, quote, republicans should educate voters about miss pelosi's extortion play. on the other side, i know you probably don't agree with the headline, but on the other side, should pelosi have given more earlier on to give a phase four deal as well? >> look, they're in a protracted negotiation. both have responsibilities as well as political needs. and you give a little and get a

little and meet in the middle. what you don't think is the president of the united states and they stormed home in a heat. there will be a lot of projection and deflection and blaming the guy. at the end of the day the president pulled the plug on this unbeknownst to his negotiators and his own team thought it was a bad decision. i think it flows from something biden touched on in his gettysburg address speech and i'm a lincoln nerd -- >> aren't you writing a book ob that? >> i am indeed. i wrote a column about this. but at the end of the day, donald trump is the anti-lincoln. he believes to his core that might makes right. therefore he will try bullying tactics all day long. as opposed to a vision of trying to unite the country in belief a house divided cannot stand and we need to serve. that's not what donald trump does. >> francesco, there's no

precedent, no precedent from what we've seen from former members of the administration, former long public servants of this country saying not just they disagree with donald trump but he's a danger to this country. the latest retired general michael hayden, who released this video. we have a clip of it. i just want to get your comment. i believe we do. if we don't have a clip, i'll read it. if there's another term for president trump, i don't know what happens to america. i interviewed him as well. you saw it a few moments ago. that's quite a warning here. unprecedented. what does this mean? >> even beyond that, republican after republican that i have spoken to, even people who support the president are warning that if this becomes a personality contest in this race between himself and joe biden, that is something president trump is unlikely to win. they've been for a long, long time been concerned about the tone he's taken in his tweets

and some of the things he says. they really think he needs to get back to focusing on substantive issues. they're hopeful tonight and the debate between vice president mike pence and kamala harris he can really drive that line and get this back on track here because when it comes down to some of the things, like you said, joe biden is saying and in his personality, that's not an argument they're going to think president trump can win. >> we will wait for the pivot. >> thanks, guys. just hours after we discussed the president pulling the plug on stimulus talks, he back tracks, i would back up smaller loans for airlines and businesses. what about all of the airlines hanging in the balance because of furloughs? we'll talk to the international chief of the night attendants. a live bookkeeper is helping

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every day we're keeping a close eye on this 2020 race. this is your election, your vote is critical. we're going to follow all of the news as it relates to your ability to vote. here are the latest headlines. arizona, a key swing state begins early voting today. take advantage of that. the federal judge has rejected efforts by the trump administration to curtail new jersey's vote by mail plan, and some republican voters are asking the supreme court to block a directive by montana's governor that allows mail-in

ballots to be sent to all registered voters. s they these headlines and moves matter to you. >> 100%. let's go to kristen holmes, who's back to help us break there down. >> good morning, poppy. let's do a dive to our viewers are aware what's going on around them. let's talk about new jersey. the trump campaign was trying to stop several of these efforts, new mail-in ballot rules, including one that would allow ballots to be counted up to two days after the election, even without a postmark. a judge has shot that down. big win for democrats, coming on the heels of two big losses for democrats, we talked about that yesterday in georgia and south carolina. in montana, it will be very interesting to watch this. see what the supreme court does here. they gave us a message, and it was clear on south carolina earlier in the week they do not want to have any sweeping federal changes to the election system, to election law this

close to november 3rd. so watch that case very closely. i want to note, both of these are efforts here to suppress the vote. that's happening behind the scenes, while we see president trump being more up front, continuing to tweet about the election, calling it rigged and fraud. take a look at this, look at these lines here. this is ohio. we also have video here from virginia. it is so clear these voters are going beyond all of this. anything that's happening in the background, they're out there. they want to get their voice heard. it is very imperative, to remind our viewers the most important thing they can do, no matter what the laws are or what's going on behind the scenes, get out and cast their ballots. >> no question. you said it, kristen, it's an effort to suppress the vote. we will stay on this because it matters to you watching at home. if you want to find your polling station, learn more about your voter registration status or get important information on absentee or early voting, don't believe what you read on facebook or twitter, get real

information from bipartisan, nonpartisan sites. you can go to cnn.com if vote. it will take you to the places to give you the proper answers. and new this morning, house speaker nancy pelosi said talks between the speaker and treasury secretary mnuchin on airline aid did not seem to go well today. policy tweeting out something about a reversal of aid to that industry. >> with us now we're glad to have sara nelson, the international president of the association of flight attendants. good morning, sara. >> good morning. >> what is the real impact of thno deal, how many attendants are without a job this morning? >> right now there are over 800 without a job and we're expecting more to come. this is day seven of furloughs. people with chronic illnesses and waiting to have a baby are looking at life without any

health care. after having been essential workers and serving our country and keeping us connected and risking their own lives in the process. >> 100,000 people. and it's important as you note, sara, a lot of folks, they lose their health care like that too, enormous impact in the midst of a pandemic. so now you have this reversal after reversal talk of a specific aid program for airlines. kind of slicing that out of a larger stimulus deal here, hope from your end that that is possible, that democrats and republicans can reach some agreement on that >>. >> look, there's almost unanimous agreement across all of congress from both parties, both chambers on this jobs and infrastructure package. i want to remind people this money is only to keep people in their jobs. it requires no involuntary furloughs. it requires continued service to all of the communities that were getting that on march 1 and that is starting to crumble as well.

and it requires executive compensation and no stock buybacks or dividends. this has been the most successful job infrastructure program of coronavirus release. what the president did yesterday ask dash hopes for the whole country of getting what relief is needed and that's what we had hoped with so much agreement around us. if that cannot be done, we need to keep our airline industry intact and these jobs intact. >> what's your message to washington? they're the ones who have the power, the president, the treasury secretary, speaker of the house, mcconnell and the senate. these are the folks that we pay to do their job. so what is your message to them this morning? >> get it done. and congress has to act. so it doesn't -- the tweets and the back and forth yesterday don't matter. congress needs to act. they tried to act a couple weeks ago and it's only because of

procedural reasons that that didn't go through. there's no reason they should not take this action right now and get people out of this uncertainty. people's mental health is on the line. our whole country is hurting and they need to get this done. >> do you want to see both parties bend here? they got closer. they didn't get close enough, just over $2 trillion. a lot of money. $1.6 trillion from the republican side. do you want to hear them say, listen, let's just find a number we can both agree on? >> speaker pelosi and secretary mnuchin were very close to getting that done and that got blown up yesterday. of course we want to see that. we want to see that for everyone. our country needs it. jay powell begged congress yesterday to do that. said nothing would glo o to was. there could not be too much. at this point in time we need to make sure we're locking in the things we know there's agreement on. we need to get this airline relief in place and that is something that could be done he today. >> yeah, you wonder if there's a

fundamental understanding of basic economics if they're not going to listen to the fed chair when he goes out on a limb and pleads with them. sara nelson, we're really sorry for the 100,000 people you just told us about and thank you for being here this morning. >> thank you very much. >> please send them our best. it's a story we're going to stay on top of. real actions with real consequences. >> thank you. the second presidential debate is still scheduled to take place one week from tomorrow. can it move forward with the president infected with covid-19? we're going to speak to the co-chair for the commission on presidential debates live next. we live in uncertain times. however, there is one thing you can be certain of. the men and woman of the united states postal service. we are here to deliver your cards, packages and prescriptions. and also deliver the peace of mind knowing that what's important to you-like your ballot-is on its way.

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welcome back. a critical vice presidential debate tonight, stakes made even higher as the coronavirus outbreak inside the white house grows, and as joe biden says his second debate with president trump should be canceled if the president still has the virus with me now is the co-chair commission debates and co-chair on the republican national committee. thank you for being here. >> good morning, jim. >> i want to begin, if i can, with the testing protocol for tonight's debate. it has commonalities of the first debate, a test within 72 hours, an honor system in effect. i just wonder given the lingering questions about the first debate and protocol, why should we be confidence this protocol will work tonight? >> i think the doctors of the

cleveland clinic have been in touch with both campaigns and talking with them about what necessary testing has to be done and they're satisfied. so we're not doctors on a commission. we rely on those people who give us professional advice. >> i understand it. but i suppose given this administration has not been entirely forthcoming about the president's status and question hes about his status last tuesday, are you confident that the campaign is providing the most accurate, upto you date information? after all, there is an outbreak within the white house. the staff of the vice president as well affected. >> listen, again, as i said, we talked to both campaigns. both campaigns talked to representatives. we have people from the cleveland clinic on the grounds here in salt lake city so we're on top of it as much as we can be and so we rely on medical advisers as to whether or not

they're satisfied. >> let's look to the second debate and joe biden said if the president is still positive for the virus next week, which is possible, there shouldn't be debate. at this point is the second presidential debate on? >> well, we're going forward with our planning for both the second and final one in nashville. but, of course, it's all going to depend on the president's health. now he said yesterday, i understand from the newspapers he's raring and ready to go and will be in miami. but it depends what the doctor said about his health not only will he be safe but the people around him safe. we're concerned about our staff and workers here. we have a crew of about 65 people that work on these things. so it's going to depend on what the medical evidence is and advice we get whether or not it's safe to go forward. right now we don't know the answer for that questions, right now for the second debate or even the lost one. we will proceed as if we will go forward with it. we will make decisions and spend time after this one's in the can

tonight as to what we're going to do for the next one, once we get that advice. >> if there's disagreement between the doctors and the president on the safety of that, who do you listen to, do you listen to the doctors under those circumstances? >> we've said from day one, before even the first debate, that with regard to medical advice, that's why the cleveland clinic has been brought in. they've just done a marvelous job. the american people have to be very proud there's an institution like the cleveland clinic in ohio and serving the world. they've done a great job. they will be our adviser and we will go forward with their advice. >> understood. the other issue in the first debate, i don't have to tell you, it was the issue nonhealth related of the frequent interruptions, breaking the rules agreed upon jointly by both campaigns. what's going to be done to keep that from happening in the second debate? >> well, we've got that under study right now. we have not decided. we have not made any decisions.

it's been, as you can imagine, jim, maybe 5,000 suggestions from people all over the country, experts and nonexperts, as to what to do. we're going to sit down after this debate is over. we're going to look hard. the next debate is a little different because it's a town hall meeting and it is in fact the members of the audience picked in miami who are going to ask the questions. it won't be much like the first one. but the final debate scheduled for nashville is a replica of the first debate and that's where any changes, if we make them, will probably be most prevalent. >> quickly, will there be a mute button at next week's debate for the moderators? >> that decision hasn't been made. but one decision that's made and it will go for tonight, you must have a mask to get in the hall and you must have been tested. if you get in the hall and take the mask off, you will be approached and asked to put the mask back on. if you do not put the mask back on, you're going to be removed from the premises. and that will be true it from all of the remaining debates. >> that's good to hear.

frank far encough, we appreciate your time tonight and good luck with the debates to come. and special coverage then of the only vice presidential debate of 2020 begins tonight at 7:00 eastern time. thank you very much for joining us. we know you'll be up late watching the debate. we will see you back here early tomorrow morning. i'm poppy harlow. >> is we'll be up late too. if we look tired tomorrow, apologies in advance. i'm jim sciutto. >> forgive us. the news starts right after a short break. having ancestry to fill in the gaps with documents, with photographs, connecting in real time means that we're having conversations that are richer. i have now a closer relationship with my grandfather. i can't think of a better gift to give to my daughter and the generations that come after her. bring your family history to life like never before. get started for free at ancestry.com

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top of the hour. hello, everybody, i'm john king in washington. thank you so much for sharing your day with us. we're told today president trump is trying to push his way back into the west wing, even as his white house adds to the new coronavirus case count. staffers are getting down, goggles and masks ready, in case they have no choice to assist the president in the oval office. the list of aides available to help keeps shrinking. adviser stephen miller is the latest trump insider to test positive for covid-19. the chief of staff, he tested negative again this morning, but listen, he sounds nervous he could be next. >> we know this virus will -- has a way of reaching out and getting people when they least expect it. >> it's important to note the president's doctor last answered questions back on monday, and th