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tv   Final Presidential Debate  CNN  October 23, 2020 12:00am-2:00am PDT

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good evening from belmont university in nashville, tennessee. i'm kristen welker of nbc news, and i welcome you to the final 2020 presidential debate between president donald j. trump and former vice president joe biden. tonight's debate is sponsored by the commission on presidential debates. it is conducted under health and safety protocols designed by the commission's health security adviser. the audience here in the hall has promised to remain silent. no cheers, boos or other interruptions except right now as we welcome to the stage former vice president joe biden and president donald j. trump. [ applause ]
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>> hi. >> and i do want to say a very good evening to both of you. this debate will cover six major topics. at the beginning of each section, each candidate will have two minutes uninterrupted to answer my first question. the debate commission will then turn on their microphone, only when it is their turn to answer. and the commission will turn it off exactly when the two minutes have expired. after that, both microphones will remain on, but on behalf of the voters, i'm going to ask you to please speak one at a time. the goal is for you to hear each other and for the american people to hear every word of what you both have to say. and so with that, if you're ready, let's start. and we will begin with the fight against the coronavirus. president trump, the first question is for you. the country is heading into a dangerous new phase. more than 40,000 americans are
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in the hospital tonight with covid, including record numbers here in tennessee. and since the two of you last shared a stage, 16,000 americans have died from covid. so please be specific. how would you lead the country during this next stage of the coronavirus crisis? two minutes uninterrupted. >> so as you know, 2.2 million people modelled out were expected to die. we closed up the greatest economy in the world in order to fight this horrible disease that came from china. it's a worldwide pandemic. it's all over the world. you see the spikes in europe and many other places right now. if you notice the mortality rate is down 85%. the excess mortality rate is way down and much lower than almost any other country. and we're fighting it and we're fighting it hard. there is a spike. there was a spike in florida and it's now gone. there was a very big spike in texas. it's now gone. there was a very big spike in arizona. it's now gone.
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and there are some spikes and surges in other places. they will soon be gone. we have a vaccine that's coming. it's ready. it's going to be announced within weeks and it's going to be delivered. we have operation warp speed, which is the military is going to distribute the vaccine. i can tell you from personal experience that i was in the hospital. i had it. and i got better. and i will tell you that i had something that they gave me, a therapeutic i guess they would call it. some people could say it was a cure. but i was in for a short period of time and i got better very fast or i wouldn't be here tonight. now they say immune. whether it's four months or a lifetime, nobody's been able to say that, but i'm immune. more and more people are getting better. we have a problem that's a worldwide problem. this is a worldwide problem, but i've been congratulated by the heads of many countries on what we've been able to do. with the -- if you take a look at what we've done in terms of
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goggles and masks and gowns and everything else, and in particular, ventilators. we're now making ventilators all over the world, thousands and thousands a month, distributing them all over the world. it will go away. and as i say, we're rounding the turn, we're rounding the corner. it's going away. >> okay. former vice president biden, to you. how would you lead the country out of this crisis? you have two minutes uninterrupted. >> 220,000 americans dead. you hear nothing else i say tonight, hear this. anyone who is responsible for not taking control. in fact, not saying i'm -- i take no responsibility initially. anyone who is responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the united states of america. we're in a situation where there are 1,000 deaths a day now. 1,000 deaths a day. and there are over 70,000 new cases per day.
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compared to what's going on in europe, as "the new england medical journal" said, they're starting from a very low rate. we're starting from a very high rate. the expectation is we'll have another 200,000 americans dead between now and the end of the year. if we just wore these masks, the president's own advisers have told him we could save 100,000 lives. and we're in a circumstance where the president thus far still has no plan. no comprehensive plan. what i would do is make sure we have everyone encouraged to wear a mask all the time. i would make sure we move in the direction of rapid testing. investing in rapid testing. i would make sure that we set up national standards as to how to open up schools and open up businesses so they can be safe. and give them the wherewithal, the financial resources to be able to do that. we're in a situation now where "the new england medical journal," one of the most
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serious journals in the whole world, said for the first time ever that this -- the way this president has responded to this crisis has been absolutely tragic. and so, folks, i will take care of this. i will end this. i will make sure we have a plan. >> president trump, i'd like to follow up with you and your comments. you talked about taking a therapeutic. i assume you're referencing regeneron. you also said a vaccine will be coming within weeks. >> yes. >> is that a guarantee? >> no, it's not a guarantee. it will be by the end of the year. i think it has a good chance. there are two companies. i think in a matter of weeks and it will be distributed very quickly. >> can you tell us which companies? >> johnson & johnson is doing very well. moderna is doing very well. pfizer is doing very well. we have numerous others working on with other countries, in particularly europe. >> let me follow up with you. this is new information. you have said a vaccine is coming within weeks now. your own officials say it could
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take well into 2021 at the earliest for enough americans to get vaccinated. and even then, they say the country will be wearing masks and distancing into 2022. is your timeline realistic? >> no, i think my timeline's going to be more accurate. i don't know that they're counting on the military the way i do, but we have our generals lined up, one in particular that's the head of logistics, and this is a very easy distribution for him. he's ready to go. as soon as we have the vaccine. and we expect to have 100 million vials. as soon as we have the vaccine, he's ready to go. >> vice president biden, your reaction? and just 40% of americans say they would definitely agree to take a coronavirus vaccine if it was approved by the government. what steps would you take to give americans confidence in a vaccine if were approved? >> make sure it's totally transparent. have the scientists of the world see it, know it, look at it, go through all the processes. and by the way, this is the same fellow who told you this is going to end by easter last time. this is the same fellow who told you that, don't worry, we're going to end this by the summer.
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we're about to go into a dark winter, a dark winter, and he has no clear plan and there is no prospect that there is going to be a vaccine available for the majority of the american people before the middle of next year. >> president trump, your reaction. he says you have no plan. >> i don't think we're going to have a dark winter at all. we're opening up our country. we've learned and studied and understand the disease. which we didn't at the beginning. when i closed and banned china from coming in, heavily infected, and then ultimately europe, but china was in january. months later he was saying i was xenophobic. i did it too soon. now he's saying, oh, i should have -- i should have, you know, moved quicker. he didn't move quicker. he was months behind me. many months behind me. and, frankly, he ran the h1n1 swine flu and it was a total disaster. far less lethal, but it was a total disaster. had that had this kind of numbers, 700,000 people would be dead right now. but it was a far less lethal disease. look, his own person who ran
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that for him, who as you know was his chief of staff, said it was catastrophic, it was horrible, we didn't know what we were doing. now he comes up and he tells us how to do this. also everything that he said about the way -- every single move that he said we should make, that's what we've done. we've done all of it. but he was way behind us. >> vice president biden, your response? >> my response is he is xenophobic but not because he shut down access from china. he did it late after 40 countries had already done that. in addition to that what he did, he made sure we had 44 people in china trying to get to wuhan to determine what exactly the source was. what did the president say in january? he said, no -- he said he's being transparent. the president of china's being transparent. we owe him a debt of gratitude. we have to thank him. and then what happened was we started talking about using the defense act to make sure we go out and get whatever is needed out there to protect people.
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and, again, i go back to this. he had nothing -- he did virtually nothing. then he gets out of the hospital and he talks about we're -- this -- don't worry. it's all going to be over soon. come on. there's not another serious scientist in the world who thinks it's going to be over soon. >> president trump, your reaction? >> i didn't say over soon. i say we're learning to live with it. we have no choice. we can't lock ourselves up in a basement like joe does. he has the ability to lock himself up. i don't know, he's obviously made a lot of money someplace, but he has this thing about living in a basement. people can't do that. by the way, i as the president couldn't do that. i'd love to put myself in the basement or in a beautiful room in the white house and go away for a year and a half until it disappears. i can't do that. and kirsten, every meeting i had, i'd meet a lot of families, including gold-star families and military families. every meeting i had -- and i had to meet them. i had to. it would have been horrible to
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have cancelled everything. i said, you know, this is dangerous, and you catch it and, you know, i caught it, i learned a lot. i learned a lot. great doctors. great hospitals. and now i recovered. 99.9 of young people recover. 99% of people recover. we have to recover. we can't close up our nation. we have to open our schools. and we can't close up our nation. or you're not going to have a nation. >> and, of course, the cdc has said young people can get sick with covid-19 and can pass it. vice president biden, i want to talk broadly about strategy, though. you have -- >> can i respond to that? >> 30 seconds please and then i have a question. >> number one, he says, you know, we're learning to live with it. people are learning to die with it. you folks home who have an empty chair at the kitchen table this morning, that man or wife going to bed and reaching over to try to touch out of habit where their wife or husband was is gone. learning to live with it? come on. we're dying with it because he has never said -- he said it's dangerous.
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when's the last time -- is it really dangerous still? you tell the people it's dangerous now. what should they do about the danger? and you say i take no responsibility. >> let me talk about your -- >> excuse me, i take full responsibility. it's not my fault that it came here. it's china's fault. and you know what? it's not joe's fault that it came here either. it's china's fault. they kept it from going into the rest of china for the most part, but they didn't keep it from coming out to the world. including europe and ourselves. >> vice president biden. >> the fact is that when we knew it was coming, when it hit, what happened? what did the president say? he said, don't worry, it's going to go away. be gone by easter. don't worry. the warm weather. don't worry, maybe inject bleach. he said he was kidding when he said that, but a lot of people thought it was serious. a whole range of things the president has said -- even today he thinks that we are in control. we're about to lose 200,000 more people. >> president trump? >> look, perhaps just to finish this, i was kidding on that, but
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just to finish this, when i closed, he said i shouldn't have closed. and that went on for months. what nancy pelosi said the same thing. she was dancing in the streets in chinatown in san francisco. but when i closed, he said this is a terrible thing. you're xenophobic. i think he called me racist even because i was closing it to china. now he says i should have closed it earlier. joe, it doesn't work. >> i didn't say either of those things. >> you certainly did. you certainly did. >> i talked about his xenophobia in a different context. it wasn't about closing the border to chinese coming to the united states. >> all right. i want to talk about both of your different strategies to handling -- >> he thought i shouldn't have closed the border. that's obvious. >> is that -- do you want to respond to that quickly, vice president biden? >> no. >> okay. let's talk about your different strategies toward dealing with this. mr. president, you suggested you would support new shutdowns if scientists recommended it. what do you say to americans who are fearful that the cost of shutdowns, the impact on the economy, the higher rates of
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hunger, depression, domestic and substance abuse outweighs the risk of exposure to the virus. >> what i would say is i'm going to shut down the virus not the country. it's his ineptitude that caused the country to have to shut down in large part. why businesses have gone under. why schools are closed. why so many people have lost their living and other concerns. those other concerns are real. instead of in a sand trap at his golf course, he should have been negotiating with nancy pelosi and the rest of the democrats and republicans about what to do about the acts they were passing for billions of dollars to make sure people had the capacity. >> but you haven't ruled out more shutdowns? >> well, no, i'm not shutting down the -- but, look, you need standards. the standard is if you have a reproduction rate in a community that's above a certain level, everybody says slow up. more social distancing. do not open bars and do not open gymnasiums. do not open until you get this under control, under more
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control, but when you do open, give the people the capacity to be able to open and have the capacity to do it safely. for example, schools. schools, they need a lot of money to open. they need to deal with ventilation systems. they need to deal with smaller classes, more teachers, more pods, and he's refused to support that money, or at least up until now. >> let's talk about schools. president trump -- >> well, i think we have to respond, if i might. >> please. then i have a follow-up. >> thank you. and i appreciate that. look, all he does is talk about shutdowns. but forget about him. his democrat governors, cuomo in new york. you look at what's going on in california. you look at pennsylvania, north carolina, democrats -- democrats all. they're shut down so tight and they're dying. they're dying. and he supports all these people. all he talks about is shutdowns. no, we're not going to shut down. and we have to open our schools. and it's like as an example, i have a young son. he also tested positive. by the time i spoke to the doctor the second time, he was fine. it just went away. young people -- i guess it's their immune system.
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>> let me follow up with you, president trump. you've demanded schools open in person and insist they can do it safely. just yesterday boston became the latest city to move its public school system entirely online after a coronavirus spike. what is your message to parents who worry that sending their children to school will endanger not only their kids but also their teachers and families? >> i want to open the schools. the transmittal rate to the teachers is very small. but i want to open the schools. we have to open our country. we're not going to have a country. you can't do this. we can't keep this country closed. this is a massive country with a massive economy. people are losing their jobs. they're committing suicide. there's depression. alcohol, drugs, at a level nobody's ever seen before. there's abuse, tremendous abuse. we have to open our country. you know, i've said it often, the cure cannot be worse than the problem itself. >> vice president -- >> and that's what's happening. and he wants to close down -- he'll close down the country if one person in our -- in our
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massive bureaucracy says we should close it down. >> vice president biden, your response? >> simply not true. we ought to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. we ought to be able to safely open. but they need resources to open. you need to be able to, for example, if you're going to open a business, have social distancing within the business. you need to have -- if you have a restaurant, you need to have plexiglass dividers so people cannot infect one another. you need to be in a position where you can take testing rapidly and know whether a person is, in fact, infected. you need to be able to trace. you need to be able to provide all the resources that are needed to do this. and that is not inconsistent with saying that. we're going to make sure that we open safely. by the way, all you teachers out there, not that many of you are going to die, so don't worry about it. so don't worry about it. come on. >> president trump, let me follow up with you quickly. >> by the way, i will say this,
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if you go and look what's happened with new york, it's a ghost town. it's a ghost town. you talk about plexiglass, these are restaurants that are dying. these are businesses with no money. putting up plexiglass is unbelievably expensive. and it's not the answer. i mean, you're going to sit there in a cubical wrapped around with plastic? it's -- these are businesses that are dying, joe. you can't do that to people. you just can't. take a look at new york and what's happened to my wonderful city. for so many years i loved it. it was vibrant. it's dying. everyone's leaving new york. >> vice president biden? >> take a look at what new york has done in terms of turning the curve down, in terms of the number of people dying. i don't look at this in the terms the way he does, blue states and red states, they're all the united states. and look at the states that are having such a spike in the coronavirus. they're the red states. they're the states in the midwest. the states in the upper midwest. that's where the spike is occurring significantly. but they're all americans. they're all americans. and what we have to do is say, wear these masks, number one. make sure we get the help that
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the businesses need that has money's already been passed to do that. it's been out there since the beginning of the summer. and nothing's happened. >> kristen, new york has lost more than 40,000 people. 11,000 people in nursing homes. >> president trump, what about -- >> when you say spike, take a look at what's happening in pennsylvania. where they've had it closed. take a look at what's happening with your friend in michigan where her husband's the only one allowed to do anything. it's been like a prison. now, it was just ruled unconstitutional. take a look at north carolina. they're having spikes and they've been closed. and they're getting killed financially. we can't let that happen, joe. you can't let that happen. we have to open up. and we understand the disease. we have to protect our seniors. we have to protect your elderly. we have to protect especially our seniors with heart problems and diabetes problems. and we will protect them. we have the best testing in the world by far. that's why we have so many cases. >> let me follow up with you before we move on to our next
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section. president trump, this week you called dr. anthony fauci, the nation's best-known infectious disease expert, quote, a disaster. you described him and other medical experts as, quote, idiots. if you're not listening to them, who are you listening to? >> i'm listening to all of them, including anthony. i get along very well with anthony, but he did say don't wear masks. he did say, as you know, this is not going to be a problem. i think he's a democrat, but that's okay. he said this not going to be a problem. we are not going to have a problem at all. when joe says that i said anthony fauci said and others and many others, and i'm not knocking him. nobody knew. look, nobody knew what this thing was. nobody knew where it was coming from, what it was. we've learned a lot. but anthony said don't wear masks. now he wants to wear masks. anthony also said if you look back, exact words, here's his exact words. this is no problem. this is going to go away soon. so he's allowed to make mistakes. he happens to be a good person. >> vice president biden, your response quickly and then we're going to move on to the next
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person. >> my response is that think about what the president knew in january and didn't tell the american people. he was told this was a serious virus that spread in the air and it was much worse than -- much worse than the flu. he went on the record and said to one of your colleagues, recorded, that, in fact, he knew how dangerous it was but he didn't want to tell us. he didn't want to tell us because he didn't want us to panic. americans don't panic. he panicked. but guess what? in the meantime we find out in "the new york times" the other day that, in fact, his folks went to wall street and said this is a really dangerous thing and a memo out of that meeting, not from his administration, but some of the brokers said sell short because we got to get moving. this is a dangerous -- >> i'm going to give you 30 seconds to respond and then we're going to move on. >> i don't know, somebody went to wall street. you're the one who takes all the money from wall street. i don't take it. joe, you have raised a lot of money. tremendous amounts of money. every time you raise money,
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deals are made, joe. i could raise so much more money as president and as somebody that knows most of those people. i could call the heads of wall street, the heads of every company in america. i would blow away every record, but i don't want to do that because it puts me in a bad position. and then you bring up wall street? you shouldn't be bringing up wall street because you're the one that takes the money from wall street, not me. i could blow away your records like you wouldn't believe. we don't need money. we have plenty of money. in fact, we beat hillary clinton with a tiny fraction of the money that she was able to raise. >> all right. gentlemen, we're going to move on. >> the average contribution $43. >> all right. we're going to move on to our next section, which is national security. do i want to start with the security of our elections and some breaking news from overnight. just last night, top intelligence officials confirmed again that both russia and iran are working to influence this election. both countries have obtained u.s. voter registration information. these officials say. and iran sent intimidating messages to florida voters. this question goes to you, mr. vice president. what would you do to put an end to this threat?
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you have two minutes uninterrupted. >> i made it clear -- and i ask everyone else to take the pledge. i made it clear that any country, no matter who the it is that interferes in american elections, they will pay a price. they will pay a price. it's been overwhelmingly clear this election -- i won't even get into the last one. this election that russia has been involved. china's been involved to some degree. and now we learn that -- that iran is involved. they will pay a price. if i'm elected. they're interfering with american sovereignty. that's what's going on right now. they're interfering with american sovereignty. to the best of my knowledge, i don't think the president's said anything to putin about it. i don't think he's talking to him a lot. i don't think he said a word. i don't know why he hasn't said a word to putin about it and i don't know what he has recently said, if anything, to the iranians. my guess is he probably would be more outspoken with regard to the iranians. but the point is this, folks. we are in a situation where we have foreign companies --
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countries trying to interfere in the outcome of our election. his own national security adviser told him that what is happening with his buddy, well -- i shouldn't -- well, i will. his buddy rudy giuliani. he's being used as a russian pawn. he's being fed information that is russian -- that is not true. and then what happens? nothing happens. and then you find out that everything is going on here about russia is wanting to make sure that i do not get elected the next president of the united states because they know i know them and they know me. i don't understand why this president is unwilling to take on putin. when he's actually paying bounties to kill american soldiers in afghanistan. when he's engaged in activities that are trying to destabilize all of nato. i don't know why he doesn't do it, but it's worth asking the question. why isn't that being done? any country that interferes with us will, in fact, pay a price because they're affecting our sovereignty. >> president trump, same question to you.
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>> i have to respond. >> let me ask the question. you're going to have two minutes to respond. for two elections in a row now, there has been substantial interference from foreign adversaries. what would you do in your next term to put an end to this? two minutes uninterrupted. >> well, let me respond to the first part adds joe answered. joe got $3.5 million from russia and it came through putin because he was very friendly with the former mayor of moscow. it was the mayor of moscow's wife. your family got $3.5 million. your and, you know, some day you're going to have to explain why -- i never got any money from russia. i don't get money from russia. now, about your thing last night, i knew all about that. and through john, who is -- john ratcliffe, who is fantastic, dni. he said the one thing that's common to both of them, they both want you to lose because there has been nobody tougher to russia with -- between the sanctions. nobody tougher than me on russia. between the sanctions, between all of what i've done with nato. you know, i've got the nato
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countries to put up an extra $130 billion, going to $420 billion a year. that's to guard against russia. i sold -- while he was selling pillows and sheets, i sold tank busters to ukraine. there has been nobody tougher on russia than donald trump. and i'll tell you, they were so bad they took over the submarine port. you remember that very well. during your term. during you and barack obama. they took over a big part of what should have been ukraine. you handed it to them. but you were getting a lot of money from russia. they were paying you a lot of money and they probably still are. but now with what came out today, it's even worse. all of the emails. the horrible emails of the kind of money that you were raking in, you and your family. and, joe, you were vice president when some of this was happening and it should have never happened. and i think you owe an explanation to the american people.
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why is it? somebody just had a news conference a little while ago who was essentially supposed to work with you and your family. but what he said was damning. and regardless of me, i think you have to clean it up and talk to the american people. maybe you can do it right now. >> vice president biden, you may respond. >> let me be straight here -- >> i do want to follow up on the election security. >> i have not taken a penny from any foreign source ever in my life. we learned that this president paid 50 times the tax in china, has a secret bank account with china, does business in china, and, in fact, is talking about me taking money? i've not taken a single penny from any country whatsoever, ever. number one. number two, this is a president -- i have released all of my tax returns. 22 years. go look at them. 22 years of my tax returns. you have not released a single solitary year of your tax return. what are you hiding? why are you unwilling? the foreign countries are paying
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you a lot. russia's paying you a lot. china's paying you a lot. and your hotels and all your businesses all around the country, all around the world. and china's building a new road to a new golf course you have overseas. so what's going on here? why not release your tax return and stop talking about corruption? >> president trump, your response. >> first of all, i called my accountants, under audit. i'm going to release them as soon as we can. i want to do it. it will show how successful, how great this company is, but much more importantly than that, people were saying $750. i asked them a week ago, i said, what did i pay? they said, sir, you prepaid tens of millions of dollars. i prepaid my tax. over the last number of years. tens of millions of dollars. i prepaid. because at some point they think -- it's an estimate. they think i may have to pay tax. so i already prepaid it. nobody told me that.
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>> did your accountant -- tell you when you can release them? >> excuse me. it wasn't written. they keep talking about $750, which i think is a filing fee. let me just tell you, i prepaid millions and millions of dollars in taxes. number one. number two, i don't make money from china. you do. i don't make money from ukraine. you do. i don't make money from russia. you made $3.5 million, joe. and your son gave you -- they even have a statement that we have to give 10% to the big man. you're the big man, i think. i don't know. maybe you're not. but you're the big man, i think. your son said we have to give 10% to the big man. joe, what's that all about? it's terrible. >> gentlemen, i want to ask you both some questions about all of this. >> i have to respond to that. >> i'm going to let you both respond. very quickly, you said you spoke to your accountant about potentially releasing your taxes. did he tell you when you can release them? do you have a deadline for when you're going to release them to the american people? >> i get treated worse than the tea party got treated because there are a lot of people in there deep down in the irs, they
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treat me horribly. we made a deal. it was all settled until i decided to run for president. i get treated very badly by the irs. very unfairly. but we had a deal all done. as soon as we're completed with the deal -- i want to release it. but i have paid millions and millions of dollars. and it's worse than paying. i paid in advanced. it's called prepaying your taxes. i paid it in advance. >> i want to ask you both questions regarding your potential foreign entanglements. respond very quickly and then i'll get to my question. >> why -- he's been saying this for four years. show us. just show us. stop playing around. you've been saying for four years you're going to release your taxes. nobody knows, mr. president. what they do know is you're not paying your taxes or you're paying taxes that are so low -- when last time he said what he paid, he said i only pay that little because i'm smart. i know how to game the system. come on. come on, folks. >> president trump, and then i want to get to two questions to
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both of you. >> sure. >> i was put through a phony witch hunt for three years. it started before i even got elected. they spied on my campaign. no president should ever have to go through what i went through. let me just say this. mueller and 18 angry democrats and fbi agents all over the place spent $48 million. they went through everything i had, including my tax returns, and they found absolutely no collusion and nothing wrong. $48 million. i guarantee if i spend $1 million on you, joe, i can find plenty wrong. >> all right. >> because the kind of things you've done and the kind of moneys your family's taken. your brother made money in iraq, millions of dollars. your other brother made a fortune. and it's all through you, joe, and they say you get some of it. and you do live very well. you have houses all over the place. you live very well. >> all right. gentlemen, let me ask questions about this broadly.
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vice president biden, there have been questions about the work your son has done in china and for a ukrainian energy company when you were vice president. in retrospect, was anything about those relationships inappropriate or unethical? >> nothing was unethical. here's what's the deal. with regard to ukraine, we had this whole question about whether or not because he was on the board -- i later learned of burisma, a company that somehow i had done something wrong. yet every single solitary person when he was going through his impeachment, testifying under oath who worked for him, said i did my job impeccably. i carried out u.s. policy. not one single solitary thing was out of line. not a single thing. number one. number two, the guy who got in trouble in ukraine was this guy trying to bribe the ukrainian government to say something negative about me, which they would not do and did not do because it never, ever, ever happened.
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my son has not made money in terms of this thing about -- what are you talking about? china. i have not had -- the only guy who made money from china is this guy. he's the only one. nobody else has made money from china. >> president trump -- my question to you. >> could i just one thing? >> very quickly. >> his son didn't have a job for a long time. was sadly no longer in the military service. i won't get into that. and he didn't have a job. as soon as he became vice president, burisma, not the best -- not the best reputation in the world. i hear they paid him $183,000 a month. listen to this. 183 -- and they gave him a $3 million up front payment. >> all right. >> and he had no energy experience. >> i'm going to let the vice president respond to that quickly and then i need to get to a question to you. very quickly, mr. vice president. >> no basis for that. no one said what he did was wrong in ukraine. >> president trump, this is for you. since you took office, you've never divested from your business. you've personally promoted your properties abroad.
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a report referenced this week which was referenced does indicate your company has a bank account in china. so how can your voters know you don't have any foreign conflicts of interest? >> i have many bank accounts and they're all listed and they're all over the place. i was a businessman doing business. the bank account you're referring to, everybody knows about it, it's listed. the bank account was in 2013. that's what it it was. it was opened in -- it was closed in 2015, i believe. and then i decided because i was going to do -- i was thinking about doing a deal in china, like millions of other people. i was thinking about it. and i decided i'm not going to do it. didn't like it. decided not to do it. i had an account open and i closed it. >> okay. >> excuse me. and then unlike him where he's vice president and he does business, i then decided to run for president after that. that was before. so i closed it before i even ran for president. let alone became president. big difference. he is the vice president of the
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united states and his son, his brother and his other brother are getting rich. they're like a vacuum cleaner. they're sucking up money -- >> president trump, thank you. we do need to move on. >> it's not true. >> we do need to move on. i do want to ask you, vice president biden, about china. let's talk about china more broadly. there have, of course, president trump has said that they should pay for not being fully transparent in regards to the coronavirus. if you were president, would you make china pay? and please be specific. what would that look like? >> what i'd make china do is play by the international rules, not like he has done. he has caused the deficit in china to go up, not down. with china. up, not down. we are making sure that in order to do business in china, you have to give all your intellectual property -- you have to have a partner in china that's 51%. we would not do that at all, number one. number two, we're in a situation where china would have to play by the rules internationally as well. when i met with xi and when i was still vice president, he said we're setting up
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identification zones in the south china sea. you can't fly through them. i said we're going to fly through them. we just flew b-52 -- b-1 bombers through it. we're not going to pay attention. we have to play by the rules. what does he do? embraces guys like the thugs in north korea and the chinese president and putin and others and he pokes his finger in the eye of all of our friends, all of our allies. we make up -- we're 25% of the world's economy. we need to be having the rest of our friends with us saying to china, these are the rules. you play by them or you're going to pay the price by not playing by them economically. that's the way i will run it. and that's what we did in upholding steel tariffs and a range of other things when we were president and vice president. >> all right. let's talk about north korea. >> excuse me. no, i have to respond to that. >> okay, very quickly and then we're going to move on to north korea. >> $1.5 billion from china. >> not true.
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>> after spending ten minute in office and being on air force two. number one. number two, there is a very strong email about your country wanting to make $10 million a year for introductions. >> president trump, on china, what specifically are you going to do to make china pay? >> first of all, china is paying. they're paying billions and billions of dollars. i just -- >> new sanctions? >> i just gave $28 billion to our farmers. >> taxpayers' money. >> it's what? >> taxpayers' money. didn't come from china. >> you know who the taxpayer is. it's called china. >> not true. >> china paid $28 billion and you know what they did to pay it, joe, they devalued their currency and they paid up. you know who else got the money? our farmers. our great farmers. because they were target. you never charged them anything. also i charged them 25% on dumped steel. because they were killing our steel industry. we were not going to have a steel industry and now we have a steel industry. >> okay. vice president biden, your response, please.
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>> my response is, look, this isn't about -- there's a reason why he's bringing up all this malarky. there's a reason for it. he doesn't want to talk about the substantive issues. it's not about his family and my family. it's about your family. your family is hurting badly. if you're making less than -- if you're a middle-class family, you're getting hurt badly right now. you're sitting at the kitchen table this morning deciding, well, we can't get new tires, they're bald, because we have to wait another month or so. are we going to be able to pay the mortgage? who's going to tell her she can't go back to community college. they're the decisions you're making in the middle-class families like i grew up in in scranton and claymont. they're in trouble. we should be talking about your families, but that's the last thing he wants to talk about. >> that is a typical statement. >> i want to talk about north korea -- >> excuse me. just for one second, please. >> ten seconds, mr. president. ten seconds. >> that's a typical political statement. let's get off this china thing. he looks the family around the table, just a typical politician when i see that. i'm not a typical politician. that's why i got elected. let's get off the subject of
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china. let's talk around sitting around the table. come on, joe. you can do better. >> we're going to talk about north korea now. president trump, you've met with north korean leader kim jong-un three times. you've talked about your beautiful letters with him. you've touted the fact there hasn't been a war and a long-range missile test. north korea recently rolled its its biggest ever intercontinental ballistic missile and continues to develop its nuclear arsenal. do you see that as a betrayal of the relationship? >> no. >> just 30 seconds here because we need to get on to the next round. >> so when i met with barack obama, we sat in the white house, right at the beginning, had a great conversation. it was supposed to be 15 minutes and it was well over an hour. he said the biggest problem we have is north korea. he indicated we would be in a war with north korea. guess what? it would be a nuclear war. and he does have plenty of nuclear capability. in the meantime, i have a very good relationship with him. different kind of a guy, but he probably thinks the same thing about me. we have a different kind of relationship. we have a very good relationship and there's no war. and, you know, about two months
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ago he broke into a certain area. they said, oh, there's going to be trouble. i said, no, there's not because he's not going to do that and i was right. look, instead of being in a war millions of people -- seoul, you know, is 25 miles away. millions and millions, 32 million people in seoul. millions of people would be dead right now. >> president trump, that's 30 seconds. thank you. >> we have a good relationship. >> vice president biden, north korea conducted four nuclear tests under the obama administration. why do you think you would be able to rein in this persistent threat? >> because i'd make it clear which we're making clear to china they had to be part of the deal. i made it clear as a spokesperson of the administration when i went to china that i said, why are you moving your missile defense up so close? why are you moving more forces here? why are you continuing to do military maneuvers with south korea? i said because north korea is a problem. and we're going to continue to do it so we can control them. we're going to make sure we can
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control them and make sure they cannot hurt us. and so if you want to do something about it, step up and help. if not, it's going to continue. what has he done? he's legitimatized north korea. he's talked about his good buddy who is a thug. a thug. and he talks about how we're better off. and they have much more capable missiles, able to reach u.s. territory much more easily than they ever did before. >> let me follow up with you, vice president biden. you've said you wouldn't meet with kim jong-un without preconditions. are there any conditions under which you would meet with him? >> on the condition that he would agree that he would be drawing down his nuclear capacity to get the korean peninsula should be a nuclear-free zone. >> all right. let's move on to american families. >> kristen, they tried -- >> very quickly. ten seconds. >> they tried to meet with him. he wouldn't do it. he didn't like obama. he didn't like him. he wouldn't do it. >> okay. got to give the vice president a chance to respond to that before we move on. >> he wouldn't do it and that's okay. you know what? north korea, we're not in a war. we have a good relationship. you know, people don't understand having a good relationship with --
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>> we have to move on. we have a lot of questions to get to. your response? >> that's like saying we had a good relationship with hitler before he, in fact, invaded europe. the rest of europe. come on. the reason he would not meet with president obama is because president obama said we're going to talk about denuclearization. we're not going to legitimatize you. we're going to continue to put stronger and stronger sanctions on you. that's why he wouldn't meet with us. >> all right. >> and it didn't happen. excuse me. he left me a mess. kristen -- >> president trump. okay, we do need to move on. >> he left me a mess. north korea was a mess. and, in fact -- >> we need to move on to get to all of our questions tonight. president trump. >> there was a very dangerous period in my first three months before we sort of worked things out a little bit. >> okay. >> they left us a mess. and obama would be, i think, the first to say it was the single biggest problem he thought that our country faced. >> okay. let's move on to american families and the economy. one of the issues that's most important to them is health care. as you both know.
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today there was a key vote on a new supreme court justice, amy coney barrett. and health care is at the center of her confirmation fight. over 20 million americans get their health insurance through the affordable care act. it's headed to the supreme court. and your administration, mr. president, is advocating for the court to overturn it. if the supreme court does overturn that law, those 20 million americans could lose their health insurance almost overnight. so what would you do if those people have their health insurance taken away? you have two minutes uninterrupted. >> sure. first of all, i've already done something that nobody thought was possible. through the legislature i terminated the individual mandate. that is the worst part of obamacare, as we call it. the individual mandate where you have to pay a fortune for the privilege of not having to pay for bad health insurance. i terminated. it's gone. now it's in court because obamacare is no good. but then i made a decision, run it as well as you can, to my people, great people. run it as well as you can. i could have gone the other route and made everybody very unhappy.
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they ran it. premiums are down. everything's down. here's the problem. no matter how well you run it, it's no good. what we'd like to do is terminate it. we have the individual mandate done. i don't know that it's going to work. if we don't win, we'll have to run it and we'll have obamacare, but it will be better run. but it no longer is obamacare because without the individual mandate, it's much different. pre-existing conditions will always stay. what i would like to do is a much better health care. much better. we'll always protect people with pre-existing. so i'd like to terminate obamacare. come up with a brand-new beautiful health care. the democrats will do it because there will be tremendous pressure on them. we might even have the house by that time, and i think we're going to win the house, okay? you'll see, but i think we're going to win the house. but come up with a better health care, always protecting people with pre-existing conditions. and one thing, very important, we have 180 million people out there that have great private health care. far more than we're talking about with obamacare.
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joe biden is going to terminate all of those policies. these are people that love their health care. people that have been successful. middle-income people. been successful. they have 180 million plans. 180 million people, families. under what he wants to do, which will basically be socialized medicine. he won't even have a choice. they want to terminate 180 million plans. we have done an incredible job on health care. and we're going to do even better -- >> okay. vice president biden. yes, this is for you. your health care plan calls for building on obamacare. so my question is, what is your plan if the law is ruled unconstitutional by the supreme court? you have two minutes uninterrupted. >> what i'm going to do is pass obamacare with a public option. become bidencare. the public option is an option that says that if you, in fact, do not have the wherewithal -- if you qualify for medicaid and you do not have the wherewithal
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in your state to get medicaid, you're automatically enrolled. providing competition for insurance companies. that's what's going to happen. secondly, we're going to make sure we reduce the premiums and drug prices by making sure that the competition that doesn't exist now, by allowing medicare to negotiate drug prices with the insurance companies. thirdly, the idea that i want to eliminate private insurance -- the reason why i had such a fight for -- with 20 candidates for the nomination was i support private insurance. that's why i did -- not one single person with private insurance would lose their insurance under my plan, nor did they under obamacare. they did not lose their insurance, unless they chose they wanted to go to something else. lastly, we're going to make sure we're in a situation that we actually protect pre-existing conditions. there is no way he can protect pre-existing conditions. none. zero. you can't do it in the ether. he's been talking about this for a long time.
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there is no -- he's never come up with a plan. i guess we're going to get the pre-existing condition plan the same time we get the infrastructure plan we waited since '17, '18, '19 and '20. the fact -- i still have a few more minutes. i know you're getting anxious. the fact is he's already cost the american people because of his terrible handling of the covid crisis and the economic spillover, 10 million people have lost their private insurance. and he wants to take away 22 million million more people who have it under obamacare and over 110 million people with pre-existing conditions, and all the people from covid are going to have pre-existing conditions. what are they going to do? >> i have a follow-up for you, vice president biden. >> sure. >> it relates to something that president trump said. he's accusing you of wanting socialized medicine. what do you say to people who have concerns that your health care plan, which includes a government insurance option, takes the country one step closer to a health care system run entirely by the government? what's your response to that? >> i say it's ridiculous.
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it's like saying that, you know, we're -- the idea -- the fact that there's a public option, that people can choose, that makes it a socialist plan? look, the difference between the president, i think health care is not a privilege, it's a right. everyone should have the right to have affordable health care. and i am very proud of my plan. it's gotten endorsed by all the major labor unions as well as -- as well as a whole range of other people who, in fact, are concerned in the medical field. this is something that's going to save people's lives and this is going to give some people an opportunity, an opportunity to have health care for their children. how many of you at home are worried and rolling around in bed tonight wondering what in god's name you're going to do if you get sick? because you've lost your health insurance or your company's gone under. we have to provide health insurance for people. at an affordable rate. and that's what i'd do. >> president trump, your response. >> excuse me. he was there for 47 years. he didn't do it. he was now there as vice president for eight years. and it's not like it was 25 years ago. it was three and 3 3/4. it was just a little while ago,
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right? less than four years ago. he didn't do anything. he didn't do it. he wants socialized medicine. and it's not that he wants it. his vice president, i mean, she is more liberal than bernie sanders and wants it even more. bernie sanders wants it. the democrats want it. you're going to have socialized medicine. just like you went with fracking, we're not going to have fracking. we're going to stop fracking. we're going to stop fracking. then he goes to pennsylvania where he got the nomination, he got very lucky to get it. he goes to pennsylvania and he says, oh, we're going to have fracking. and you're never asked that question. by the way, so far, i respect the way you're handling this, i have to say, but somebody should ask the question. he goes for a year -- >> we have a -- we do have a number -- we have a number of topics we're going to get to. >> answer the question. it's the same thing with socialized medicine. >> i have to respond. >> vice president, your response, please. >> my response is people deserve to have affordable health care. period. period, period, period. and the bidencare proposal will,
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in fact, provide for that affordable health care, lower premiums. what we're going to do, it's going to cost some money. it's going to cost $750 billion over ten years to do it. and you're going to have lower premiums. buy into better plans. the cheaper plans. lower your premiums. deal with unexpected billing and have your drug prices drop significantly. he keeps talking about it. he hasn't done a thing for anybody on health care. not a thing. >> kristen, when he says -- >> very quickly. i want to talk about what happening on capitol hill. >> he's talking about socialized medicine and health care. when he talks about a public option, he's talking about destroying your medicare. >> wrong. >> and destroying your social security. and this whole country will come down. you know, bernie sanders tried it in his state. he tried it in his state. his governor was a very liberal governor. they wanted to make it work. it was impossible to work. it doesn't work. >> let's hear vice president biden respond. vice president biden, your response?
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>> he's a very confused guy. he thinks he's running against somebody else. he's running against joe biden. i beat all those other people because i disagreed with them. joe biden he's running against. and the idea that we're in a situation that is going to destroy medicare, this is the guy that the actuary of medicare said if, in fact -- social security. if, in fact, he continues to withhold -- his plan to withhold the tax on social security, social security will be bankrupt in -- by 2023. with no way to make up for it. this is the guy who has tried to cut medicare. so i don't -- i mean, the idea that donald trump is lecturing me on social security and medicare? come on. >> he tried to get rid of -- >> ten seconds, mr. president, then i have to go to another question. >> years ago, years ago, go back and look at the records. he tried to hurt social security years ago. >> all right. let's move on. i'm going to move on. mr. president, i have to move on to the next question. or else we're not going to have time to talk about it. >> they say the stock market will boom if i'm elected. if he's elected, the stock market will crash. >> okay. >> look, the idea that the stock
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market is booming, it's his only measure of what's happening. where i come from in scranton and claymont, people don't live off of the stock market. just -- just in the last three -- three years during this crisis, the billionaires in this country made, according to wall street, $700 billion more. $700 billion. because that's his only measure. what happens to the ordinary people out there? what happens to them? >> let's talk -- >> 401(k)s -- >> we're going to move on. >> kristen, 401(k)s are through the roof. the stock are through the roof. >> all right. >> he doesn't come from scranton. that's, like, one of the -- he lived there for a short period of time before he even knew it and he left. the people of pennsylvania will show you that. >> let me move on to my next question, gentlemen. as of tonight, more than 12 million people are out of work and as of tonight, more than 8 million americans have fallen into poverty and more families are going hungry every day. those hit hardest are women and people of color. they see washington fighting over a relief bill.
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mr. president, why haven't you been able to get them the help they need? 30 seconds here. >> because nancy pelosi doesn't want to approve it. i did. >> but you're the president. >> i do, but i still have to get -- unfortunately, that's one of the reasons i think we're going to take over the house because of her. nancy pelosi doesn't want to approve anything because she'd love to have some victories on a date called november 3rd. nancy pelosi does not want to approve it. we are ready, willing and able to do something. don't forget, we've already approved three plans and it's gone through. including the democrats, in all fairness. this one she doesn't want. it's near the election. because she thinks it helps her politically. i think it hurts her politically. >> all right. mr. vice president. >> just so you know, the republican leader in the united states senate said he can't pass it. he will not be able to pass it. he does not have republican votes. why isn't he talking to his republican friends? >> let me follow up with you, vice president biden -- >> if we made a deal -- >> let me ask vice president biden a question. you are the leader of the democratic party. why have you not pushed the democrats to get a deal for the american people?
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>> well, i have and they have pushed it. look, they passed this act all the way back in the beginning of the summer. this is like it's not new. it's been out there. this h.e.r.o.s. act has been sitting there and look at what's happening. when i was in charge of the recovery act with $800 billion, i was able to get $145 billion to local communities that have to balance their budgets and states have to balance their budgets, who then have to fire -- they have to fire firefighters, teachers, first responders, law enforcement officers. so they can keep their cities and counties running. he will not support that. they have not done a thing for them. and mitch mcconnell said let them go bankrupt. let them go bankrupt. come on. what's the matter with these guys? >> the bill that was passed in the house was a bailout of badly run high crime democrat, all run by democrat cities and states. it was a way of getting a lot of money, billions and billions of dollars to these -- it was also a way of getting a lot of money
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from our people's pockets to people that come into our country illegally. we were going to take care of everything for them. and what that does, and i'd love to do that, i'd love to help them, but what that does is everybody all over the world will start pouring into our country. we can't do it. this was a way of taking care of them. this was a way of spending on things that had nothing to do with covid, as per your question. but it was a really big bailout for badly run democrat cities and states. >> if i get elected, i'm going oh run as a proud democrat, but i'm going to be an american president. i don't see red states and blue states. what i see is american, united states. and, folks, every state out there finds themselves in trouble. they're going to start laying off whether they're red or blue, cops, firefighters, first responders, teachers, because they have to balance their budget. and the founders were smart. they allowed the federal government to deficit spend to compensate for the united states of america. >> i want to talk about the minimum wage, gentlemen. mr. vice president, we are
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talking a lot of struggling small businesses. >> yes. >> and business owners these days. do you think this is the right time to ask them to raise the minimum wage? you, of course, support a $15 minimum wage. >> i do. because i think one of the things we're going to have to do is we're going to have to bail them out, too. we should be bailing them out now, those small businesses. you got 1 in 6 of them going under. they're not going to be able to make it back. they passed a package that allows us to be able to call ppp. money supposed to go to help them do everything from organize how they can deal with their businesses being open safely. schools, how they can make classrooms smaller. how they can hire more teachers. how can they can put ventilation systems in. they need the help, as well as the businesses, they need the help. these guys would not help them. they are not giving them any of the money.
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>> in a second administration, but not to a level that is going to put all these businesses out of business. it should be a state option. look, different places. i know different places. they're all different. >> you said very recently you would consider raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour. you said recently you would consider raising the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour. is that still the case? in a second administration. >> in a second administration, but plot to a level that's going to put all these businesses out of business. it should be a state option. look, every -- i know different places. they're all different. some places, $15 is not so bad. in other places, other states, $15 would be ruinous. >> quick response, vice president biden.
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>> two jobs, one job and be be below poverty. people are making 6, 7, 8 bucks an hour. the first responder we all clap for as they come down the street because they've allowed us to make it. what's happening? they deserve a minimum wage of $15. anything below that puts you below the poverty level. and there is no evidence that when you raise the minimum wage business go out of business. that is simply not true. >> we're going to talk about immigration. we're going to talk about immigration now, gentlemen. and we're going to talk about families within this context. mr. president, your administration separated children from their parents at the border. at least 4,000 kids. you've since reversed your zero tolerance policy, but the united states can't locate the parents of more than 500 children. so how will these families ever be reunited? >> there are children who are brought here by coyotes and lots of bad people, cartels, and they're brought here and they used to use them to get into our country. we now have as strong a border as we've ever had. we're over 400 miles of
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brand-new wall. you see the numbers -- and we let people in, but they have to come in legally. and they come in through merit. >> how will you reunite these kids with their family, mr. president? >> they built cages. they used to say i built the cages. they had a picture in a certain newspaper and it was a picture of these horrible cages and they said, look at these cages, president trump built them. and then it was determined they were built in 2014. that was him. >> do you have a plan to reunite the kids? >> yes, we're working on it very -- we're trying very hard. a lot of these kids come without the parents. they come over through cartels and through coyotes and through gangs. >> vice president biden, let me bring you into this conversation. quick response and then another question. >> these 500-plus kids came with parents. they separated them at the border to make it a disincentive to come to beginning with. real tough. we're really strong. and guess what? they cannot -- it's not coyotes didn't bring them over. their parents were with them. they got separated from their parents.
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and that makes us the laughing stock and violates every notion of who we are as a nation. kristen, they did it, we changed the policy. >> we did not separate. >> who built the capable, joe. >> let's talk about what we're talking about. what happened, parents were ripped, their kids were ripped from their arms and separated, and now they cannot find over 500 sets of those parents and those kids are alone, nowhere to go, nowhere to go. it's criminal. it's criminal. >> let me about you about it for ten seconds. >> they are so well taken care of, they're in facilities that were so clean. >> some of them haven't been reunited with their families. >> who built the cages, i would love you to ask him that. >> let me ask about your immigration policy.
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the obama administration failed to deliver immigration reform and presided over record deportations before changing course. >> made a mistake, took too long to get it right. took too long to get it right. i'll be president of the united states, not vice president of the united states, and the fact is i have made it very clear within a hundred days, i'm going to send the united states congress a pathway to citizenship for over 11 million undocumented people, and all of those so called dreamers, those daca kids they're going to be immediately certified to stay in this country and put on a path to citizenship, the idea that they are being sent home by this guy and they want to do that is they're going to a country they have never seen before. i can imagine, you're 5 years old, parents are taking you across the rio grande river, and it's illegal and you say oh, no, mom, leave me here.
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i'm not going to go with you. they have been here. many are model citizens. over 20,000 of them are first responders, out there taking care of people during this crisis. we owe them. we owe them. >> president trump. >> he had eight years to do what he said he was going to do. and i've changed -- >> we did. >> without having a specific, we got rid of catch and release. we got rid of a lot of horrible things that they put in and that they lived with, but he had eight years he was vice president. he did nothing except build cages to keep children in! vice president biden, your response. >> the camp atch and release, y know what he's talking about there, if you had family, they were arrested they were given a date to show up for their hearing, they were released. guess what, they showed up for a hearing. this is the first president in the history of the united states, anybody seeking asylum has to do it in another country.
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that's never happened before in america. that's never happened before in america. you come to the united states, and you make your case that i seek asylum based on the following premise, why i deserve it under american law. they are sitting in squalor on the other side of the river. >> president trump, your response, 30 seconds and we'll move on. >> it shows that he has no understanding of immigration of the laws. catch and release is a disaster. a murderer would come in, a rapist would come in, a very bad person would come in, we would take their name. we have to release them into our country and then you say they come back. less than 1% of the people come back. >> not true. >> we have to send i.c.e. out and border patrol out to find them. we would say come back in two years, three years, we're going to give you a court case, you need perry mason, we're going to give you a court case. when you say they come back, they don't come back, joe. they never come back. only the really, i hate to say
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this, but those with the lowest iq, they might come back. >> let's give vice president biden a chance to respond, and then we're going to move on to the next section. >> know the law, what he's telling you is simply not true. >> check it out. they don't come back. but we don't have to worry about it because we terminated it. >> and you have 525 kids not knowing where they're going to be and lost their parents. >> go ahead. >> let's talk about our next section which is race in america, and i want to talk about the way black and brown americans experience race in this country. part of that experience is something called the talk. it happens regardless of class and income, parents who feel they have no choice but to prepare their children for the chance that they could be targeted, including by the police, for no reason other than the color of their skin. mr. vice president, in the next two minutes, i want you to speak directly to these families.
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do you understand why these parents fear for their children? >> i do. i do. you know, my daughter is a social worker, and she's written a lot about this. she has her graduate degree from the university of pennsylvania in social work, and you know, one of the reasons why i ended up working on the east side of wilmington, delaware, which is 90% african-american was to learn more about what was going on. i never had to tell my daughter if she's pulled over, make sure she puts both hands on top of the wheel, and don't reach for the glove box because someone may shoot you. but a black parent, no matter how wealthy or poor they are, has to teach their child, when you're walking down the street, don't have a hoodie on when you go across the street, making sure in fact, that if you get pulled over, yes, sir, no, sir, hands on top of the wheel because you are, in fact, a victim, whether you're a person making $300,000 a year person or
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someone who's on food stamps. the fact of the matter, there is institutional racism in america, and we have always said, we have never lived up to it, we hold these truths to be self-evident, all men are created equal. we have constantly been moving the needle further and further to inclusion, not exclusion. this is the first president that has come along that says that's the end of that. we're not going to do that anymore. we have to provide for economic opportunity, better education, better health care, better access to schooling, better access to opportunity to borrow money to start businesses, all of the things we can do and i have laid out a clear plan as to how to do those things just to give people a shot. it's about accumulating the ability to have wealth as well as it is to be free from violence. >> president trump, same question to you, and let me remind you of the question, i would like you to speak directly
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to these families, do you understand why these parents fear for their children? >> yes, i do, and again, he has been in government 47 years, he never did a thing except in 1994 when he did such harm to the black community. and they were called, and he called them super predators, and he said that. he said it, super predators, and they can never live that down, 1994, your crime bill, the super predators, nobody has done more for the black community than donald trump. and if you look, with the exception of abraham lincoln, possible exception, but the exception of abraham lincoln, nobody has done what i have done. criminal justice reform, obama and joe didn't do it. i don't even think they tried because they had no chance at doing it. they might have wanted to do it, but if you had to see the arms i had to twist to get that done, it was not a pretty picture, and everybody knows it, including some very liberal people that
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cried in my office. they cried in the oval office, two weeks later they're out saying, gee, we have to beat him. criminal justice reform, prison reform, opportunity zones with tim scott, a great senator from south carolina, he came in with this incredible idea, it's one of the most successful programs. people don't talk about it. tremendous investment is being made. biggest beneficiary the black and hispanic communities and then historically black colleges and universities. after three years of coming to the office, i love some of those guys. they were great. they came into the office and i said what are you doing after three years, why do you keep coming back, because we have no funding. i said you don't have to come back every year. we have to come back because president obama would never give them long-term funding and i did, ten-year, long-term funding and i gave them more money than they asked for because i said i think you need more. the bad part is i may never see
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you again because i got very friendly with them, and they like me, and i like them. i saved colleges and university. >> we're going to talk about both of your records, but your response to that. >> my response is i never ever said what he accused me of saying. the fact of the matter is in 2000, after the crime bill had been in the law for a while, this is a guy who said, the problem with the crime bill, there's not enough people in jail, and go on my web site, get the quote, the date, when he said it, not enough people. he talked about gangs, and the people who are going to our city. five innocent black kids, he continued to make sure to push to make sure they got the death penalty. none of them were guilty of the crimes that were suggested. look, and talk about, granted he did, in fact, let 20 people, he commuted 20 people's sentences.
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we commuted over a thousand people's sentences. over a thousand. the very law he's talking about is a law that, in fact, initiated by barack obama, and secondly, we're in a situation here where the federal prison system was reduced by 38,000 people under our administration. and one of these things we should be doing, there should be no minimum mandatories in the law. that's why i'm offering $20 billion to states to change their state laws to eliminate minimum mandatories, and set up drug courts, no one should be going to jail because they have a drug problem. they should be going to rehabilitation, not to jail. we should fundamentally change the system, and that's what i'm going to do. >> why didn't the do it four years ago? >> why didn't you do it four years ago. you keep talking about all of these things you're going to do, and you're going to do this, but you were there just a short time ago, and you guys did nothing. you know, joe, i ran because of
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you. i ran because of barack obama, because you did a poor job. if i thought you did a good job, i would have never ran. i ran because of you. i'm looking at you now, you're a politician, i ran because of you. >> vice president biden, your response to that and i have questions. >> i hope he does look at me is what's happening here is you know who i am, you know who he is. you know his character, you know my character. you know our reputations for honor and telling the truth. i am anxious to have this race. i am anxious to see this take place. the character of the country is on the ballot. our character is on the ballot. look at us closely. >> if this stuff is true about russia, ukraine, china, other countries, iraq, if this is true, then he's a corrupt politician, so don't give me the stuff about how you're this innocent baby. joe, they're calling you a corrupt politician. >> president trump, i want to
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stay on the issue of race. >> president trump we're talking about race right now, and i want to stay on the issue of race. >> i have to respond to that. >> please! there are 50 former national intelligence folks that said what he's accusing me of is a russian plan. they have said that this has all the -- five former heads of the cia what he's saying is a bunch of garbage. nobody believes him except him and his good friend rudy giuliani. >> you mean the laptop is russia russia russia hoax. >> that's exactly what it's called. >> gentlemen, i want to stay on the issue of race. >> you have to be kidding, here we with russia. >> you described the black lives matter movement as a symbol of hate. you have shared a video of a man chanting white power to millions
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of your supporters, black professional athletes exercising their first amendment rights should be fired. what do you say to americans who say that kind of language from a president is contributing to a climate of hate and racial strife. >> the first time i ever heard of black lives matter, they were chanting, pigs in a blanket, talking about police. pigs, talking about our police. pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon. i said that's a horrible thing. and they were marching down the street, and that was my first glimpse of black lives matter. i thought it was a terrible thing. as far as my relationships with all people, i think i have great relationships with all people. i am the least racist person in this room. >> what do you say to americans who are concerned by that rhetoric? >> i don't know what to say. i've got criminal justice reform done, and prison reform, and opportunity zones. i took care of black colleges and universities. i don't know what to say, they can say anything. i mean, they can say anything.
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it makes me sad because i am the least racist person. i can't even see the audience because it's so dark, but i don't care who's in the audience, i'm the least racist person in this room. >> okay. vice president biden, let me ask you very quickly. >> abraham lincoln is one of the most racist presidents we had in modern history. he pours single on every racist fire, every single one. started off his campaign coming down the escalator saying he's going to get rid of the mexican racists. he has banned muslims because they're muslims. he has made everything worse across the board. he said about the proud boys last time we were on the stage, stand down, stand ready. this guy is a dog whistle as big as a fog horn. >> president trump, ten seconds to respond. >> he made a reference to abraham lincoln. >> you said you're abraham
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lincoln. >> no, no. >> i said not since abraham lincoln has anybody done what i have done for the black community. i didn't say i'm abraham lincoln. i said not since abraham lincoln has anybody done what i have done for the black community. now, you have done nothing other than the crime bill which put -- >> oh, god. >> tens of thousands of black men, mostly, in jail. and you know what, they remember it, because if you look at what's happening with the voting right now, they remember that you treated them very very badly. just take a look at what's happening out there. >> vice president let me give you a chance to respond in the context. crime bills that you supported in the '80s and '90s, they are sons, brothers, fathers, uncles, whose families are still to this day, some of them suffering the consequences, speak to those families, why should they vote
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for you. >> one of the things is that in the '80s, we passed 100%, all 100 senators. ♪ed on it, a bill on drugs. it was a mistake. i have been trying to change it, particularly the portion on cocaine. that's why i have been arguing we should not send anyone to jail for a pure drug offense. they should be going into treatment, across the board. that's what we should be spending money. i set up district courts that were never funded by republican friends. they should not be going to jail for a drug or an alcohol problem. they should be going into treatment. treatment. that's what we have been trying to do. that's what i'm going to get done. i think the american people have now seen that, in fact, it was a mistake to pass those laws related to drugs. but they were not in the crime bill. >> why didn't he get it done. it's all talk, no action with these politicians. why didn't he get it done.
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that's what i'm going to do when i become president. you were vice president along with obama as your president, your leader, for eight years, why didn't you get it done, you had eight years to get it done. now you're saying you're going to get it done because you're all talk and no action, joe. >> we got a lot of it done, we got 38,000 prisoners. >> you got nothing done. >> 38,000 prisoners were released from federal prison. there were over a thousand people that were given clemency. we're the ones that put in the legislation saying we could look at pattern and practice of police departments and what they were doing, how they were conducting themselves. i could go on, but we began the process. we began the process. we lost an election. that's why i'm running to win back that election and change his terrible policies. >> i just ask one question. >> why didn't you do it in the eight years, a short time ago. why didn't you do it. you just said i'm going to do that, i'm going to do this, you put tens of thousands of mostly
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black young men in prison. now you're saying you're going to undo that. why didn't you get it done. you had eight years with obama. you know why, joe, because you're all talk and no action. >> vice president biden and then we're going to uf mmove on to t next section. >> we had a republican congress. that's the answer. >> you got to talk them into it, joe. sometimes you got to talk them into it. like i did with criminal justice reform. i had to talk democrats into it. >> you did what we had already done. >> we have to get on to climate change, please. >> you both have very different visions on climate change, president trump you say that environmental regulations have hurt jobs in the energy sector. vice president biden you said you see addressing change as an opportunity to create new jobs. for each of you, how would you both combat climate change and support job growth at the same time starting with you president trump, you have two minutes, uninterrupted. >> so we have the trillion trees program.
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we have so many different programs. i do love the environment, but what i want is the cleanest, crystal clear water, the cleanest air. we have the best, lowest number in carbon emissionings, which i big standard that i notice obama goes with all the time. i haven't heard joe use the term. i'm not sure he knows what it remits represents or means. we have the best carbon emission numbers in 35 years under this administration. we are work so well with industry. here's what we can't do, look at china, how filthy it is. russia, india, it's filthy, the air is filthy. the paris accord, i took us out because we were going to have to spend trillions of dollars, and we were treated very unfairly, when they put us in there, they did a great disservice. they were going to take away our businesses. i will not sacrifice tens of millions of jobs, thousands and
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thousands of companies because of the paris accord. it was so unfair. china doesn't kick in until 2030. russia goes back to a low standard and we kicked in right away. it would have destroyed our businesses. so you ready, we have done an n incredible job environmentally. the cleanest air and water and carbon emission standards than we have seen in many many years. >> vice president biden. >> and we haven't destroyed our industries. >> vice president biden, two minutes to you, uninterrupted. >> climate change, climate warming, global warming is the next existential threat to humanity. we have a moral obligation to deal with it. we're told by the leading scientists in the world, we don't have much time. we're going to pass the point of no return within the next eight to ten years. four more years of this man, eliminating all the regulations that were put in by us to clean
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up the climate, to clean up, to limit emissions will put us in a position where we're going to be in real trouble. here's where we have a great opportunity. i was able to get all the environmental organizations as well as labor, the people worried about jobs to support my climate plan because what it does, it will create millions of new, good paying jobs. we're going to invest in, for example, 50,000 charging stations on our highways so that we can own the electric car market of the future. in the meantime, china is doing that. we're going to be in a position where we're going to see to it that we're going to take 4 million existing buildings and 2 million existing homes and retrofit them so they don't leak as much energy, saving hundreds of millions of barrels of oil in the process and creating a significant number of jobs, and by the way, the whole idea of what this is all going to do,
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it's going to create millions of jobs, and it's going to clean the environment. our health and our jobs are at stake. that's what's happening. and right now, by the way, wall street firm has indicated that my plan will, in fact, create 8 18.6 million jobs, 7 million more than his. this is from wall street, and i'll create $1 trillion more in economic growth than his proposal does. not on climate, just on the economy. >> president trump, your response. >> they came out and said very strongly, $6,500 will be taken away from families under his plan, that his plan is an economic disaster. if you look at what he wants to do. >> nothing to do with climate. >> you know who developed it, aoc plus 3. they know nothing about the climate. i mean, she's got a good line of stuff, but she know it is nothing about the climate, and they're all hopping through hoops for aoc plus 3.
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a real plan costs a hundred trillion dollars. if we had the best career in the history of our country, for a hundred years, we would not come close to a number like that. whe when he says buildings, they want to take buildings down and make bigger windows into smaller windows. if you had no window it would be a lovely thing. this is the craziest plan that anybody has seen, and this wasn't done by smart people. this wasn't done by anybody, frankly, i don't even know how it can be good politically. they want to spend $100 trillion. that's the real number. he's trying to say it was 6. they want to knock down buildings and build new buildings with little tiny small windows. and many other things. >> let me have the vice president respond and we're running out of time, and we have a lot more questions to get to. so let's hear from the vice president, i have a number of questions. >> i don't know where he comes from. i don't know where he comes up with these numbers. $100 trillion. give me a break.
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this plan is endorsed by every major environmental group, and every labor group. labor. because they know the future lies -- the future lies in us being able to breathe, and they know there are good jobs getting us there. the fastest growing industry in america is the electric -- excuse me, solar energy, and wind. he thinks wind causes cancer, windmills, it's the fastest growing jobs, and they pay good prevailing wages, 45, 50 bucks an hour. we can grow and we can be cleaner if we go through what i'm proposing. >> president trump, please respond and i have a follow up. >> we are energy independent for the first time, we don't need all of these countries that we had to fight war over because we needed their energy. i know more about -- it's
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extremely expensive, kills all the birds, very intermittent, and they happened to make the windmills in germany and china, and the fumes coming up if you're a believer in carbon emission. the fumes coming up to make these massive windmills is more than anything we're talking about with natural gas. >> find me a scientist who says that. >> solar doesn't quite have it yet. is not powerful to run our big, beautiful factories that we need to compete with the world. so. >> that's false. >> it's all a pipe dream. you know what we'll do, we're going to have the greatest economy in the world, but if you want to kill the economy, get rid of your oil industry, and what about fracking. >> let me allow vice president to respond. >> i have never said i oppose fracking. >> you said it on tape. >> show the tape, put it on your web site. >> i'll put it on. >> put it on the web site. the fact of the matter is he's flat lying. >> would you rule out banning fracking. >> i do rule out banning
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fracking because the answer, we need other industries to transition to get to ultimately a complete zero emissions by 2025. what i will do with tracking over time is make sure we can capture the emissions from the fracking, capture the emissions from gas. we can do that and we can do that by investing money and doing it. it's a transition to doing that. >> i have one more question. >> excuse me, he was against fracking, he said it, i will show that to you tomorrow. i am against fracking. until he got the nomination, with ent you know what, pennsylvania, he'll be against it soon because his party is against it. >> fracking on federal land, i said. no fracking or oil on federal land. >> let me ask this final question in this section. and then i want to move on to our final section. president trump, people of color are much more likely to live near oil refineries and chemical plants. in texas, there are families who
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worry the plants near them are making them sick. your administration has rolled back regulations on these kinds of facilityings. why should these families give you another four years in office. >> the families we're talking about are employed heavily and they are making a lot of money, more money than they have made. if you look at the kind of numbers that we have produced for hispanic or black or asian, it's nine times greater, the percentage gained than it was under, in three years, than it was under eight years of the two of them, to put it nicely. nine times more. now, somebody lives, i have not heard the numbers or the statistics that you're saying but they're making a tremendous amount of money, economically. we saved it. and i saved it again a number of months ago when oil was crashing because of the pandemic. we saved it. say what you want about relationship, we've got saudi arabia, mexico, and russia to cut back, way back. we saved our oil industry, and
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now it's very vibrant, and everybody has very inexpensive gasoline. remember that. >> vice president bizen, your respon -- biden. >> those people live on fence lines. he doesn't understand this. they live in chemical plants that pollute, chemical plants and oil refineries that pollute. i used to live near that in delaware, the oil refineries, and the delaware river than there is any place including houston at the time. when my mom would get in the car in the first frost there would be oil slick in the window. that's why so many people in my state were dying and getting cancer. the fact is those front line communities, it doesn't matter what you're paying them, it matters how you keep them safe. what do you do, and you oppose restrictions on the pollutants coming out of the fence line communities. >> okay. i have one -- >> would you close down the oil industry?
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>> by the way, i have a transition from the oil industry, yes. i would transition. >> that's a big statement. >> that is a big statement. >> why would you do that? >> the oil industry pollutes significantly. >> oh, i see. >> here's the deal. >> that's a big statement. >> if you let me finish the statement because it has to be replaced by renewable energy over time. over time. and i'd stop giving to the oil industry, i'd stop giving them federal subsidies. he won't give federal subsidies to solar, and wind, why are we giving it to the oil industry? >> we do give it to solar, and wind and that's maybe the biggest statement in terms of business. >> okay. >> basically what he's saying is he is going to destroy the oil industry. will you remember that, texas. will you remember that, pennsylvania, oklahoma. >> vice president biden let my give you ten seconds to respond and i have to get to the final question. >> he takes everything out of context, but the point is, look, we have to move toward a net
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zero emissions, the first place to do that by the year 2035 is in energy production, by 2050, totally. >> is he going to get china to do it. >> we're finished with this. we have to move on to our final question. >> i'm going to rejoin paris accord, and make china abide by what they agreed to. >> that will cost you a trillion dollars. >> this is about leadership, gentleman, and this first question does go to you, president trump. imagine this is your inauguration day, what will you say in your address to americans who did not vote for you. you'll each have one minute starting with you. >> we have to make our country totally successful as it was prior to the plague coming in from china. now we're rebuilding it and we're doing record numbers, 11.4 million jobs in a short period of time, i'll tell you. go back. before the plague came in, just before, i was getting calls from people that were not normally people that would call me. they wanted to get together. we had the best black unemployment numbers in the
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history of our country, hispanic, women, asian, people with diplomas, no diplomas, m.i.t. graduates, number one in the class, everybody had the best numbers. the other side wanted to get together, they wanted to unify. we are on the road to success: i'm cutting taxes and he wants to raise everybody's taxes, and he wants to put new regulations on everything. he will kill it. if he gets in, you will have a depression, the likes of which you have never seen. your 401(k)s will go to hell and it will be a very sad day for this country. >> same question to you, what will you say during your inaugural address to americans who did not vote for you. >> i will say i'm the american president, i represent all of you, whether you voted for me or against me, and i'm going to make sure that you're represented. i'm going to give you hope. we're going to move, we're going to choose science over fiction, we're going to choose hope over
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fear. we're going to choose to move forward because we have enormous opportunities to make things better, we can grow this economy. we can deal with the systemic racism, and at the same time, we can make sure that our economy is being run and moved and motivated by clean energy. creating millions of new jobs. and that's the fact. that's what we're going to do. and i'm going to say as i said in the beginning, what is on the ballot here is the character of this country, decency honor, respect, treating people with dignity, making sure that everyone has an even chance, and i'm going to make sure you get that. you haven't been getting it the last four years. >> all right. i want to thank you both for a very robust hour and a half, a fantastic debate, really appreciate it. president trump, former vice president joe biden, thank you to belmont university, for hosting us tonight, and most importantly thank you to those watching us tonight. election day is november 3rd,
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don't forget to vote. thank you, everyone. and have a great night. >> thank you. >> so there you have it, a much more coherent debate compared to that first match up a few weeks ago. the president of the united states obviously listened to his key advisers here. there was very little interrupting. they mostly followed the rules, but still focusing in on some of the major differences that they have. the american public clearly has a better appreciation of where these two men stand on some of the most important policy issues of the day. their family members are coming up on the stage right now, we're going to watch a little bit of this before they both disappear, but jake this was clearly, clearly, a much different debate than the first one. >> yeah, that's right. wolf. it was definitely a more normal debate. president trump behaved more like a regular person might theoretically.
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i think it's fair to say that trump support skpeers and offic holders can relax for the night. he didn't set himself on fire like he did in the first debate. he did lie like pinocchio, and i'm sure daniel dale will get to that in fact checking. president trump got in clean hits when it came to vice president biden when it came to the 1994 crime bill. when it came to joe biden being in politics for so long. he even probably fed some raw meat to his base successfully using breitbart fox lingo that most voters have no idea what he's talking about. he got those shots in there, however, based in reality they are. the problem for the president as i see it is two-fold, one, joe biden did fine. he had a fine performance. he definitely reached the threshold and given that so much of this election is a referendum on donald trump, and he is the underdog, according to polls, joe biden is ahead. joe biden did nothing to
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disqualify himself. it was a fine performance. and the second problem is that joe biden scored points. he got his licks in, on issues that i think might affect voters more when it comes to the coronavirus pandemic, when it comes to health care and the fact that the trump administration has not offered any sort of viable alternative to obamacare. then there was that rough moment that had to do with the fact that -- of the child family separation policy, there are still more than 500 kids that the trump administration has not been able to place back with the parents whose arms they snatched them from. so i think at the end of the day, dan, the race has been fairly stable. i think, you know, there might be some movement when it comes to trump supporters who were unsure, feeling like, well, that's a more normal person than the last debate. and maybe even some points scored in terms of getting black men, who really hate that 1994 crime bill and their families on
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board perhaps. but i don't see anything that will change the trajectory of the race in a significant way. what do you think? >> i agree with you. look, we all described in colorful terms what we thought of the first presidential debate, and this was a debate. it's what americans should expect when they are watching two people who want to be the leader of the country, the leader of the free world to try to figure out where day stand on policy issues and where they are when it comes to their character. as you said, there were a lot of things that daniel will get to that were just flat out lies, and they got off course talking about things that probably most people don't care about especially where we are in a pandemic, and very very tough times, but donald trump listened to his advisers this time. i talked to a lot of them going into the debate. they told me exactly what they
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were treying to get him to do, e didn't listen last time. he did this time for the most part. so did joe biden, he did what he practiced to do. >> you know, honestly, this debate was just the sam content from the first debate, expect now you can understand what people are saying. in that respect, it was better. people could evaluate the difference between what was said, but in terms of the substance of what was being said, the president fell into some of the same patterns, continued to down play the virus, and the effect of this upswing that the country is currently in right now, heading into the holiday season. he kept doing something that i think joe biden actually tried to exploit, which is dividing the country into red states and blue states. the blue states are doing this. >> your democrat governors. >> and if you watch the ads that are on television for the biden
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campaign right now, the message right now is not about, you know, coronavirus. it's not about fracking. it's not about any of those things. it's about unity. it's about bringing the country together, and you saw joe biden repeatedly saying i'm not going to do that. i think the president really walked back into that trap because if you listen to him day-to-day like we all do, you hear the same content that he gives in his interviews, in his media gaggles, it happened on the debate stage in a calmer tone. it still isn't bridging the gap with the voters in the middle. >> that's the thing. the president has been lying about the coronavirus pandemic since february. im, just straight up lying about it, it's going to be over by easter. i could go through them, but you get the point. we cover this every day, the three of us and all of the journalists at cnn cover this. the truth of the party matter i president did it again tonight, not going too a dark winter.
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the vaccine is going to be here in weeks. none of this is true. every health expert. >> criticizing fauci. >> every health expert, including those in his administration, anderson, every single one says what joe biden said tonight, and they all say that what president trump said tonight to the american people is not true, and this is the fundamental problem with the president's pitch is that the country can see that he's lying about the pandemic. >> and so many people in this country have already voted and will vote by election day. let's go to our team standing by. david axelrod. >> if you're ahead and you get a draw, you win. both of them were better than they were last time. i thought joe biden held his own. that's all he had to do. the trajectory of this race did not change, and as abby pointed out, he did some big business in
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terms of speaking as an american president, and swiping at trump for being so partisan and talking about red and blue states and so on. i thought those were powerful points and it's one of the reasons why he is in the position he's in. >> you know, i agree with david. i think that biden was sharper tonight than he was at the last debate. maybe that's because he wasn't given much of a chance, but i do think he scored some points really against trump, particularly on immigration. when they were talking about the children in cages, what struck me was when trump said, they are so well taken care of. >> total lies. >> well, a, it's a lie, and b, the statement itself is just so stunning to me that i almost couldn't believe that someone would really say that, and then,
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you know, just looking over the whole debate, overall, what the president was trying to do was present himself as the outsider talking about politicians, when in fact, he's been running the country for the last four years. and i thought that was pretty striking also because it also isn't true. >> senator santorum, he did a lot of what you said he was going to do. >> he delivered. you watched a different debate than i did. and certainly from everything i'm hearing from my folks, you guys watched a very different debate. i think donald trump was right on his game. i actually think that he completely skewered joe biden, he called biden the politician, looking in the camera. every time after that, everyone thought act the line, here he is, looking in the camera, being a typical politician. the other thing, and i'll be curious to see how many people pick up on this. joe biden at the end of, i think, looking at his watch, if you recall the campaign with george h.w. bush, looked at his watch because he was sweating it out, and i think that's what a lot of people are saying, that joe biden was bobbly, a little
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shaky the at end a shaky at the end. i think that's going to be a meme out of this debate. >> hey, look, i think donald trump did his best ever and his best was not good enough. bottom line. it was the same stuff, just a little bit less volume on it. no plan for the future. a big apology for a bunch of failures, and then smacking at joe biden all the time. he literally did nothing that he hasn't always done. he sounded better, looked better, but there was nothing there. and some of the stuff he said, i agree with gloria, the shocking lack of humanity that he demonstrated talking about those children and no apology, i mean, a human being just would have said, hey, cant sleep at night thinking about those kids. i'm doing everything i can for those kids. for him to lie saying they're being treated well was horrific,
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inhuman. whenever joe biden looked in the camera and cut through the crap and started talking about real stuff, i think it did land. senator. >> we're not keeping kids in cages anymore, and the bottom line is trump, i think -- >> where are the parents. >> trump said who built the cages, and the reality is joe biden built those cages. >> and who used them in a horrific barbaric ways that are stench in the nostrils of god. if you want to talk about what's happening to those children and families, we can talk about it. but yes, in fact, they were never used in the way the trump administration has used them, and the horrific abuses, i don't think that you guys want to have this conversation with the american people. >> what donald trump was talking about is how those children are being taken care of now, now how they are being taken care of then. i think everyone agrees how they were taken care of then was reprehensible. the people who built the cages. >> i know a lot more about this than you do.
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those children are in nasty situations, the way that they are deliberately dehumanizing people at the border in this country is a stench in the n nostrils of god. it is one of the worst thing. >> it's a different issue. >> it's not a different issue. >> this president showed no humanity for those children, not one scrap of humanity. and you would have said, anybody would have said, i can't sleep at night. i care about these kids. he said he doesn't care. >> what he said is they are taking good care of these children. that's what he said. >> that's not true. >> that's showing humanity that we wanted to take care of those children. >> where's the plan? >> rick, can i just, to gloria's point, you said he attacked him for being a politician. and he was very effective there. what does it feel like to you when he stands up there and says we're going to have a big beautiful health care plan, he has been saying that for five years.
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it was a classic politician nod. what does it say to you -- >> it was the worst answer of the night. >> when he tries to unload all of giuliani stuff on biden and ends up in a long whine about his tax returns and how he has been mistreated by the irs, and he can't release his tax returns. the fact is he can say you're a politician, and i'm not but he behaved like a politician. i agree that he was far better than he was, and if i were you, ill be giddy too, because you had to defend that performance. >> no, i didn't. >> you didn't do it. i give you that. >> he was much much better tonight. but there were these moments that reminded people exactly what bothers them about him, and some of them were about where he, you know, he talked about biden wanting blue state bailout, and talking about how the blue states are doing badly on coronavirus, which is patently untrue, the whole country is suffering through the same thing and every time biden got to say i am running to be an
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american president, not the president of my base, i think that he rang up points with those voters who might be thinking one way or the other. >> i got to get a quick break in. here's what to look for tonight as we break down the debate. one of the things the president felt he scored points on was joe biden talking about wanting to get off fossil fuels in -- i'm not sure the exact
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year, in the 2030s. >> for the man who's not a politician, oudtsider, not makig a play for the state of pennsylvania because fracking is a big issue there, rick santorum, you know there, so the politici politician was making a play for the state of california, and joe biden said he is fore keeping fracking now, but eventually in the distant future you have to phase it out, made a huge point about that. but where i thought he really lost his way because he has no answer, is health care because, you know, he kept saying to joe biden, you had so many years to do x, y, and z, why didn't you do it. well, the president had so many years, if he hated obama care and is repealing obamacare why haven't they replaced it with anything? there is no answer for that, rick, other than that
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republicans can't agree on what they want. >> i agree with you, it was a pathetic answer, and frankly, he's had a pathetic answer. i wrote an op-ed today in the hill with one of his former health care advisers, you have an answer, conservatives have put forth a plan that will reduce premiums and increase the number of insured and do all the things that you want to do. please endorse it. so i'm as frustrated as most republicans are. what the president doesn't talk about is medicare premiums are down 30% since the beginning of his term. prescription drug premiums for medicare part d are down 12% since the beginning of his term. why he doesn't go out and talk about the successes of actually lowering obamacare premiums, broadening the market for people as a result of obamacare, and some of the things he has done.
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>> i'll it tell you why. >> as long as he doesn't have a plan, he's in trouble answering that question. >> van, go ahead. >> he doesn't have a plan. he has no regrets looking backwards. he's standing on the graves of a quarter million americans with no regrets backwards and no plan going forward, so what does he do, covers up that failure, and covers up all of those deficits by attacking hunter biden and no president who was proud of his past four years would ever mention hunter biden or any of that stuff. they would be doing exactly what you're saying, pounding away on the successes, the reality is you have a president who knows that he is a colossal failure, and he has to distract americans by attacking somebody that nobody believes is corrupt, and nobody believes is a bad person, and he wasted a lot of time on that tonight. a lot of time on that. >> on the health care issue, i think a significant thing happened that actually helps biden, which is trump was bearing down on him about
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socialized medicine, people were going to have to give up their health care, and biden turned to trump, and he said, i think he's confusing me with someone else. he was talking about bernie sanders and the others he ran against. he's running against joe biden, i beat all of those people because i disagreed with them on this issue, and he's absolutely right about that. he took a more moderate position that preserved private health care, that builds on the affordable care act and i thought that was an important piece of business for him, for any voter out there who is confused by trump's rhetoric about socialized medicine. >> hold on, if you recall, you guys discussed the whole public option thing when you guys were debating obamacare back when and you abandoned it, why, because of its impact on private insurance. there's no question you put a public option in there, you're going to dry a lot of the private insurance market, so
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again president trump didn't make an effective case against it. but the reality is biden's plan is not going to help the private markets. >> that is not why the public option wasn't in there, rick. the public option wasn't in there because there were a few democrats with ties to the insurance industry who opposed the public option. >> because it was going to destroy private insurance. >> no. so that wasn't why it was in there, and you know what, there's enormous public support for this, enormous. just as there's enormous public support for the affordable care act. you know, 55% i think in a poll today aprovprove of the afforda care act. the president is not on the right side of this issue if you want to be on the side of the large majority of americans. >> van jones, in those states that, you know, john mccain, where the polls are actually quite close, nationally, national polls are one thing,
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all that matters is these key states and polls are pretty close, did this tonight change that die nynamic in any way, di change the dynamics of the race? >> i would be surprised if it did. i do want to give biden credit. it took courage for him to say what he said about the oil industry. for him to say i am committed to transitioning them over time and in a responsible way to a better business model, frankly these energy companies could have a better business model. the energy companies themselves are talking about this transition. for him to not duck it and say yeah, we are going to move responsibly to that. as he's looking at a texas, at a pennsylvania, but that's the thing about joe biden he actually believes in some stuff and he's willing to take stands on stuff, and there are a lot more jobs putting up solar panels than being on the oil rigs, and he's going to make that case as well. i'm proud that joe biden stood up for his beliefs, and stood up for better jobs in the future
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rather than trying to being the back line to the old jobs. >> another thing that came out of joe biden's mouth that was surprised to me because it was so stunning and frank, and we hear all of this back and forth all the time now, and maybe it floats over our heads, but he was trying to make a joke about donald trump and he called him abraham lincoln over here, and of course trump didn't get the joke and he got very angry, but he said, you're one of the most racist presidents in modern american history, period. and donald trump was talking about the '94 crime bill, we know the history of that, we don't have to go through that again, but he made a statement, sort of a blanket statement here. and he said, this guy's dog whistle is about as big as a fog horn, period, and we're used to that kind of language, i guess, in this campaign, but one candidate just called the other candidate a racist, and you know, it's not out of the
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ordinary. >> you can make the argument, gloria, that joe biden got in the gutter and donald trump didn't in this race. >> well, no i won't make that argument tonight. >> i will, because i think he did. >> i won't make that argument because i think that -- >> you think it's true. i don't think it's true. >> there are reasons to believe it is true, yes, absolutely. >> nobody called donald trump a racist before he was president of the united states. >> that's not true. >> the central park thing. >> wait a minute. wait a minute. wait a minute. other than the central park thing, the central park thing actually is five human beings lives who were sent to prison, convicted for crimes that they did not commit. and he refuses, you know that, rick. >> and also he says, you know, justice reform, i wanted that. talk to van jones about how they had to talk this president into the kind of reform, that he went in kicking and screaming. kicking and screaming.
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>> rick, three weeks ago we were talking about him refusing to condemn the proud boys. >> right. >> so i mean, it isn't as if gloria is pulling that out of the area. this has been part of the president's political project. he does dog whistle and he does stand down when he's called on to condemn racist organizations. >> biden calls him out. >> and that has been a problem for him, and you know that as well. it makes you uncomfortable as well. >> van, go ahead. >> this is a complicated thing here. first of all, the right wing always says nobody called him a racist before he was president. it's just not true. once he started on the birther thing, that shocked a lot. donald trump did have allies in the black country. donald trump had a supporter of civil rights cause, in fact, donald trump has been a supporter of kamala harris, believe it or not. but when he went down the road of the birther thing, that changed his relationship with the black community. it did, and then since then,
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he's trying to do two things that don't go well together. he's trying to put together a peanut butter and ketchup sandwich. on the one hand, he has done good stuff on criminal justice, and black colleges, that's true. but he's also appealed to wit supremacist organizations and other stuff. what continues to happen is i think that campaign wants credit for the good stuff they have done and don't take responsibility for the horrific climate that they have emboldened in this country. if you are a black parent or a parent of color trying to raise your kids in this environment, you do not appreciate the role that donald trump has played in poisoning the atmosphere. we're rounding the corner, it's going away. >> people are living with, you
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folks at home with an empty chair at the table. >> it was wrong eight month ago, it's wrong today. we're above 65,000 new cases per day. >> both of them were better than they were last time, but i thought that joe biden held his own, and that's all he had to do. >> kids were ripped from their arms and separated, and now they cannot find over 500 sets of those parents. it's criminal. >> they are so well taken care of. they're in facilities that were so clean. >> this is "new day" with alisyn camerota, and john berman. >> we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and all around the world. this is "new day" friday, october 23rd, 5:00 for a essentially early edition of "new day," the final presidential debate was more substantiative and restrained. president trump toned it down and tried to portray himself as an outsider, despite being in the white house for four years. he offered little in the way of concrete plans for a second term. joe biden challenged the
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president on his record and tried to deliver a message of unity and empathy. the coronavirus pandemic dominated the debate with the candidates presenting starkly different visions on everything from are the economy and health care to climate change. eleven days before election day. choked up about the whole thing. this will be a multiple hanky show. it's eleven days until election day, and the number of early votes has surpassed, the total number of early votes in 2016, john. >> so our post debate poll was pretty clear about who viewers thought won the debate, joe biden by 14 points, so yeah, a second debate, donald trump might have bested first debate donald trump but not according to the poll of the guy he's running againstment . as for the substance with the coronavirus pandemic in the dangerous new wave, the president issued the false claim that we're rounding the corner. vice president warned that a
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dark winter is coming. overnight, more than 71,000 new cases were reported. that's the highest number since the summer. more than 41,000 people are hospitalized. that's the most in two months. eight states are reporting record hospitalizations, and deaths are now increasing in more than half the country. let's go to nashville, the site of the final debate. jessica, the last time one way or another that donald trump will ever debate. so historic in its own rite. >> john, look, it's 11 days, you said it, to election day. we're here in the very final stretch, both candidates making their final pitch to voters and, while it was lighter on the interruptions this time, it was certainly not light on jabs. >> in the second and final presidential debate, president donald trump and former vice president joe biden clashed over the major issues, with fewer
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interruptions, the two candidates offered their final pitches to voters. including how they will combat coronavirus on a day that saw one of the highest numbers of new u.s. cases since the crisis began. still, the president repeated lies about the pandemic. >> it will go away. we're rounding the corner, it will go away. >> 220,000 americans dead, if you hear nothing else i say tonight, hear this. anyone who's responsible for not taking control, in fact, not saying i take no responsibility initially. anyone who's responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the united states of america. >> trump also used his own recent coronavirus diagnosis to down play the severity of the disease. >> i was in for a short period of time and i got better very fast. >> he did virtually nothing, and then he gets o

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