tv New Day With Alisyn Camerota and John Berman CNN March 23, 2021 2:59am-4:00am PDT
>> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. welcome to our viewers in the united states and all around the world, this is "new day." it's tuesday, march 23rd, 6:00 a.m. here in new york. the breaking news this morning, on the front page of the denver post, a nightmare it reads. ten dead at a mass shooting at a grocery store in boulder, colorado. a nightmare. to be honest, it's america's reoccurring nightmare. it comes less than a week after the spa shootings in georgia left eight people dead. and colorado alone, mass shootings so horrific they're known by one name, columbine,
aurora. we wait to hear more from law enforcement, we are getting new details in. the one known victim is 51-year-old police officer eric talley, the first officer to respond to the scene. he has seven children. >> oh my gosh. >> he reportedly had been looking to transfer to a job as a drone operator because he didn't want his family to worry about his safety. boulder police have a suspect in custody. authorities say he was injured and apprehended at the scene. his motive is unknown at this hour. an ar-15 style rifle was used in the massacre. colorado senator john hickenlooper is calling for federal action on gun control, but why would this time be any different than all the other times after mass shootings when congress did nothing? cnn's dan simon is live in boulder at the scene of the shooting. what do we know at this hour, dan? >> reporter: good morning, alisyn. so much shock. so much anguish. we're across the street from the
grocery store where this happened. this area is still taped off by police. so many questions, of course. the primary question being what would cause this shooter to go into that supermarket and begin firing seemingly at random. ten people are dead after a gunman opened fire inside this boulder, colorado, supermarket monday. >> right down there. >> oh my god. guys, we got people down inside king's soopers. >> reporter: witnesses recall hearing several loud bangs before customers frantically ran for the exits. >> this feels like the safest spot in america, and i just nearly got killed for getting a soda, you know, and a bag of chips. >> reporter: police quickly arrive at the scene. the shooter was still inside the store firing a rifle. >> 136, still multiple shots being fired at us. >> start pushing. slow. we do not know where he is. he is armed with a rifle.
officers shot back and returned fire. >> bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. >> and i immediately sprinted over to her. pushed open the emergency door. i told her to run. >> reporter: law enforcement immediately worked to secure the building. >> this is the boulder police department. the entire building is surrounded. i need you to surrender now. >> reporter: eventually ramming into the building and forcing their way in. >> my son-in-law walked into the pharmacy for him to get a covid-19 shot, and the shooter came in, shot the woman in front of them. they hid. ran upstairs or hiding in a coat closet for the last hour. half a dozen cops came in through the roof, got them and then told them, you know, stay quiet. and they're okay. this is not okay with me. and this is put in a big pitch for gun control. you know, when it's your
family -- >> reporter: 51-year-old boulder police officer eric talley was among the victims. >> officer talley was the first on the scene, responded to the scene, and was fatally shot. >> reporter: the suspect was wounded and is currently in police custody. justice will be served for the nine victims and officer talley. >> his life was cut far too short as he responded to the shooting taking place at kings soopers. people going about their day, doing their food shopping and their lives were cut abruptly and tragically short by the shooter who is now in custody. i promise the victims and the people of the state of colorado that we will secure justice and do everything we must do to get justice in this case. >> reporter: authorities have indicated it will take several days to complete the initial investigation, which will include processing the scene, interviewing witnesses, taking a look at potential surveillance
video and, of course, gathering information about the suspect. we know that is a news conference has been scheduled at 10:30 eastern time this morning. hopefully we'll glean new information about exactly what took place. john, back to you. >> dan simon, ten people dead. joining us now, dan oates, the chief of the aurora police department when a gunman killed 12 people in a movie theater there in 2012. also with us cnn national security analyst the assistant secretary for intergovernmental affairs and department of homeland security. we're waiting for a news conference 10:30 a.m. there's so much we don't know. what are the most important unknowns this morning? >> we don't know of names will be released. obviously they spent the last overnight trying to contact next of kin. it was clear from the press conference yesterday they had not done so. so i think that was why there was some confusion between the two press conferences.
the second will be what do they know about the suspect and whether he will be named and arraigned today. and then the third will be just about the investigation, what are they finding in the market? how did the suspect get ahold of his gun. and then, of course, what is the motive. there's a larger story here that may not be addressed today, but is one that we have to address in light of what happened in atlanta, which is are we facing a spring and summer of mass casualty events as we come out -- as people congregate. that's something that the biden white house will have to address as well. >> how can that be? after a year of basic quarantine in the country the first thing we do as americans is go back to mass shootings? how can that be? >> so. yeah, it's a distinctly and sadly american problem, right? this is something that is so unique to us that i think it's hard for americans to grasp just how accepting we are of this kind of violence.
we get upset and thoughts and prayers, but nothing ever changes. here is something that's interesting, however. we have a belief that we were all inside, nothing happens last year. there were not mass shootings like we've seen in the past at schools, theaters and supermarkets but gun violence was up 25%. we don't know if that's because of psychological stresses, suicides or whatever else. so, i know a lot of people are saying america is back. america never left. we have a gun problem. and it's one that was persistent through covid. but one that may take on more deadly consequences because people are congregating and out again. >> chief oats, again, you were in aurora during the mass shootings there, that awful shooting in the movie theater. your reaction when you saw this news, a mass shooting not too far honestly from where you were. >> well, my reaction is the same as anyone who has been through this in any community, and you
can name them, las vegas, el paso, parkland, orlando, aurora. all of those folks and all of those communities are traumatized every time one of these things happens. and you know, we know -- anyone who has been through it knows all the anguish that will come and will follow. and so my initial reaction is, tremendous grief for that new community in boulder that is now going to go through what all of us have been through. >> chief, we've read that the local law enforcement there say it will take five days they estimate to process the scene. why? why so long? >> well, i bet you it's going to be more than five days. in aurora i think it was two weeks before we released the theater. among the things that will happen is boulder pd will rely on the additional resources of the state and the fbi to do the forensic work.
but what happens is as you get into that -- into that store and begin to do the forensic work, it takes a lot longer than you think. and don't forget, we have a live defendant to be prosecuted. aside from all the support that the police department and the government of boulder has to lend to those communities, they've got to get a conviction here. it becomes the central focus of that police department over the next year or two is to build a case against this defendant. they've got to do everything right. so they've got to do painstakingly slow forensics. so my guess is that store won't be released and reopened for more than five days. >> chief, what's going on behind the scenes this morning if the idea is to build a case and you have a live suspect, what's happening right now? >> well, a real consideration here, and that we faced in the aurora case is i'm sure there's overwhelming evidence here, so then it becomes that the best approach that the defense will take is an insanity defense. and to defeat an insanity
defense, the prosecution is going to have to show that this guy understood right from wrong and understood the consequences of his actions. and part of that investigation is going to have to be showing, as juliette said motivation. in the aurora case, for instance, detectives did research of back dating months and months of the suspect's digital profile to show evidence that he had planned the event. he understood right from wrong. he knew the consequences of taking the kind of action that he took. that became critical evidence in front of the jury to convince them and to defeat the insanity defense. >> juliette, there are a lot of eyewitnesss to this, people who lived through it, people who hid, people who were neighbors, people who had to hide, people who saw what happened in the parking lot where we believe a couple of the victims were killed and then inside and what, at this hour, none of them report him saying anything. the suspect saying anything
while this was happening, which i think is a little bit unusual. what do you think happens next in the investigation? >> the same as what dan said. the thing i'm most interested in was he known to the police department? what i found interesting yesterday was how quickly the police department came nechb that first press conference and said there's no continuing threat to the community. they seemed very confident in that. so the question is, was he known to the police department? what was his prior record? and had he done anything similar? it will also -- this investigation will also go to the access to the gun, colorado has relatively permissive gun laws and so, how did he access it? and what kind of weaponry did he have. and then third, dan was saying, the motivation. it may be we don't know or ever can find out the motivation. we saw this with las vegas and so the families i think have to be prepared for that. but that's where the investigation will go in terms
of the weeks ahead and all of the witnesses you describe will be interviewed to determine did he hint at anything? did he say anything? what was his motivation and whether he expressed it. so that is why this investigation while it seems easy, right, you have a single place, the victims and the perpetrator alive, this is why this investigation will take a while because you want a conviction on the other side of this. >> thank you both for helping us understand this this morning. if it is possible, frankly, to understand. juliette, brought up the weapon and whether or not the gunman was known to police beforehand and gets to very real issues around gun reform. we understand it was an ar-styled rifle that was used there. we also know the boulder colorado had passed a ban on assault weapons before but it was overturned by a judge. i think, what, last week? question now, what will congress do? stay with us.
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after a gunman opened fire at a colorado grocery store. this is the second mass shooting in the u.s. in less than a week. will president biden and congress do anything to address the gun violence epidemic in this country? cnn's jeremy diamond is live at the white house with more. what's happening there, jeremy? >> reporter: good morning, alisyn. jen psaki tweeted last night that president biden has indeed been briefed on the shooting. his team will continue to update him as there are developments in this case. but we haven't heard anything more yet from the white house as of the last hour. we do know that president biden is expected to travel to the state of ohio today to tout the affordable care act and some of the reforms he was able to get into this $1.9 trillion stimulus bill. we'll see if he continues on with that trip, i certainly expect him to address the
shooting as he leaves the white house or in his remarks later today in the state of ohio. there is pressure mounting for some reaction on gun reform legislation. the question is whether president biden will get on board with that. we have seen colorado senator hickenlooper, he took to the twitter last night to say that while he's thinking of the families and the victims in this situation, he also says we don't know all the details yet but we do know our country has a horrific problem with gun violence. we need federal action now. several other democratic senators, including chris murphy of connecticut where the sandy hook shooting took place back in 2012 also talking about the need for gun reform action right now. we will see whether or not president biden decides to start talking about that. he didn't last week in the wake of that shooting in atlanta. alisyn? >> jeremy stay with us f you would. also joining is anna palmer the founder of punchbowl news. anna, all of us -- obviously john and i, you guys spent far too many mornings like this in
the aftermath of a horrible mass shooting again in the united states. is there any reason to believe that this time would be different when after sandy hook congress didn't act, when after parkland they had to do it on a state level. i could go through the whole sad list. is there any reason that today would be different? >> yeah. it's hard to see what is going to change it this time, unfortunately. the senate's work is tragically well timed. today the senate judiciary committee is hosting on constitutional and common sense steps to reduce gun violence. this was obviously planned before any of this happened. but i think it also just underscores the fact that this is the national crisis that continues to happen. senate democrats are trying to push forward with this, but the way that congress works, there's a majority in the house that would support moving forward with gun control of some kind, but in the senate there is not that 60-vote threshold.
that's why i think this filibuster again is going to come under fire because you're going to see a lot of activists and others say, this if not now when. >> a lot of people look at this and say it's hopeless. but people will remember that after el paso and dayton, it is amazing we can lit early list the cities here to remember the mass shootings, that was 2019. mitch mcconnell cracked the door open a little bit. he did. nothing happened. but he cracked the door open a little bit on issues involving red flag laws, that means people who may have had mental health issues so serious that family members wanted them watched carefully. red flag laws and also what's called the charleston loophole, anna, which has to do with a waiting period, extending the waiting period from three days from five to seven if you don't information back from the federal data base. might there be some limited areas given mcconnell's willingness to at least listen back then where people could
talk? >> i do think there might be some areas where you'll see republicans and democrats try to come together. you saw senator john cornyn and others after that tragic shooting in el paso come forward, wanting to try to find a way forward. the other point i would make that i do think makes the dynamics very different now that potentially past incidences is the fact that the national rival association is really at an all time low in terms of political power. they're under duress in terms of investigations, in terms of lawsuits. and so, oftentimes the fear i think that they wielded for a lot of republicans in terms of getting re-elected is no longer there. i still think that that 60-vote threshold in the senate is really where all of the focus should be because you may have a couple republicans on some things, you know, be supportive of it, but if you remember back in 2012 after sandy hook happened, joe biden, then vice president, was tapped by barack obama to lead the effort on that. and even that, which was very
tragic and children and really the national attention had never been higher in this country, they still were unable to do anything, very small paired back bill in the senate ended up failing. >> you know, if we sound pessimistic, john, it is -- part of it is the lesson from sandy hook. there couldn't have been a very unifying moment in grief in the country and the bills all failed after that. now, i mean, there was incremental change, jeremy. the bump stock was banned after the horrifying las vegas shooting. so, it's just these little, teeny things that apparently congress can get their arms around. >> reporter: yeah. it is remarkable and it is notable how little president biden has focussed on gun reform in his time in office so far. of course, he has a lot on his plate from the coronavirus pandemic, the economic crisis associated with that, the situation on the southern border
as well. but for a president, who as vice president led this gun reform task force in the wake of the sandy hook shooting, as a senator helped pass the brady background check bill back in the '90s, the assault weapons ban as part of the '94 crime bill, president biden really hasn't focussed all that much on gun reform. in fact, he hasn't even mentioned or put out a statement after the house passed two pieces of gun reform legislation focussed mainly on background check reforms in recent weeks. and last week, in the wake of that atlanta shooting, we saw the president focus on the anti-asian hate happening in america, but he really didn't address gun reform legislation either, even as some gun control activists begun talking about the cooling off period which was perhaps an issue in that -- in those shootings in atlanta last week. and perhaps that's because president biden, more than anybody else, because of all his experience focussing on this issue, knows how difficult it
is. and so far he has been unwilling to endorse doing away with the filibuster all together. we saw him last week talk about the fact that he would be willing to make it more painful, make it more difficult, including requiring a talking filibuster on the floor with senators opposing legislation actually holding the floor for hours on end. but he hasn't endorsed removing the 60-vote threshold which is really the only way that you can get significant gun reform legislation passed. and even then it would be an uphill battle because you have senator joe manchin, for example, who has resisted some background check legislation, including on private sales, for example. so again, the challenges are so huge here. but we will see if this one more shooting in america prompts some more action or gets at least president biden to start tackling this as higher up on his priority list for his agenda. >> i guess we got to go, but you brought up one extra wrinkle
which is joe manchin, a central player after sandy hook in trying to craft a compromised joe manchin is 100 times more important to the institution of the senate today than he was then, anna. joe manchin wants something, we'll see soon how much joe manchin wants to drive this train. if he wants to push this and make this a priority, he may get people to listen on both sides. >> yeah. it certainly will be interesting to see how he chooses to come out on this issue. that toomey, manchin legislation died and you haven't seen them try to resurrect it in the same manner or push it that aggressively. pat toomey, of course, retiring, leaving the senate. so the question -- i really do think is what republicans are going to do? they're going to have to find -- to do any kind of registration, even smaller legislation, they're going to have to find some allies on the right to come forward. i do think that one thing that really has changed also i would
just note is the fact that the parents and the actual gun control activists are very organized and very motivated. i've been speaking to some of them over the past couple weeks. and they feel like now is their moment and they continue to kind of just try to do as much as they can. so i think you're going to see them try to put immense amount of pressure on the senate to try to do something. >> thank you both for all of that reporting. we really appreciate it. so now to this story, the u.s. health officials have released a highly unusual statement overnight. they're questioning the results from that astrazeneca vaccine trial that we reported on yesterday. so we'll explain why next. we started with computers.
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developing overnight, a highly unusual statement from health officials, this has to do with the claims from astrazeneca they made just yesterday, not even 24 hours ago that a huge trial showed their vaccine to be safe and effective. well the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases an independent panel, data and safety monitoring board, quote, expressed concern that astrazeneca may have included outdated information from that trial which may have provided an incomplete view of the efficacy data. joining us now is cnn contributor epidemiologist and detroit's former health commissioner. i want people to understand first of all it's unlikely that astrazeneca was going to play a major role in the u.s. vaccine efforts to begin with. we weren't likely to see the middle of may and by that point everything would have filled the need in the u.s., but to have the government basically come out and say, doctor, that we got a problem with what astrazeneca is telling us. what is your take away here? >> yeah.
that's right. to your point, john, the situation is that we probably didn't need these vaccine doses any way. in fact, we have been stockpiling them, waiting for them to potentially get emergency use authorization. but we've got a lot of pfizer, a lot of johnson & johnson and moderna and folks remember back to president biden's claim that we would have everybody who wanted a vaccine would have one by may, that was based on dosages of what's already available. and you're right, by the time that authorization came through, it would be may. and that is after that deadline that the president already set. that being said, these aren't the kind of documents you just copy paste, right? it is a bit concerning that there is data in those documents that didn't quite meet muster when it came to timing and it is concerning with respect to their eua. the key thing i want folks to understand is that isn't authorized. this is just early data from the manufacturer arguing or showing what their trials showed. it still has to go through the
process. >> but doctor, you just said we have a lot of moderna, we have a lot of pfizer, we have a lot of j&j, do we have a lot of j&j because the biden administration was expressing concern that johnson & johnson may not be able to meet their 20 million promised by the end of snont. >> you're right. that is the main concern. they got their authorization later than pfizer and moderna and teamed up with another manufacturer to make enough johnson & johnson for -- to meet the expectations and requirements that we had to be able to vaccinate every american. that being said, now we are starting to see a situation where the administration is getting a bit antsy about the level of production that johnson & johnson is delivering. and that's really concerning because per shot, johnson & johnson is probably the most powerful vaccine we have because you only need one dose. and so, you can get someone from not vaccinated at all to fully vaccinated in one dose and makes every dose that much more
important. and the fact that johnson & johnson is struggling to meet its quotas may set back the timeline that the president already confidently went out and proclaimed. that is a real concern. that said, you know, folks have been reporting on the ground that the j&j vaccines are just really slow to trickle in and hopefully they'll be able to pick up. remember, they're a couple months behind pfizer and moderna and haven't had as much practice at this. trying to deliver vaccine at scale is no easy task. >> we're averaging 2.5 million vaccines a day. we would still hit 2 million doses within the first 100 days of the biden presidency. we're already way ahead of where everyone thought we would be. that's even without johnson & johnson amping up more than they are and meeting their stated goals. on astrazeneca, one thing i want to clear up, though, look, it is significant if an independent advisory board that works for the u.s. government is saying
that astrazeneca, i don't know if they're saying they're not being straight with the public. but there's a problem with what they're telling the public. >> yeah. i'll tell you the context here that i'm most worried about, astrazeneca had these issues with having their roll-out stopped in europe to investigate claims that that vaccine was associated with higher risk of blood clots. there's no evidence to suggest that. but all of this is to say that public trust is one of the most important things that we have right now about any and all vaccines. we are right now struggling, of course, to get enough supply out to people. there will come a time when we have more than enough supply. the demand might trickle down because of vaccine hesitancy. so anything like this that could shake the public's trust in any vaccine makes it that less powerful a tool in our arsenal if folks are worried about taking it. this really is a bit of a mark on them. it is worrying that you have an independent advisory board at the government saying, wait a
second, this seems outdated. >> well, we're going to wait to hear from astrazeneca what we have to say about it. doctor, thank you so much for being with us this morning. >> thank you for having me. we're standing by for new details from police about the mass shooting in colorado that left ten people dead. we have a live report from the zain next. we're also following breaking news out of new york where an assisted living facility has collapsed. you're looking at pictures of that now. huge fire as we sit here several residents are unaccounted for. we look up to our heroes. idolizing them. mimicking their every move. and if she counts on the advanced hydration of pedialyte when it matters most... so do we. hydrate like our heroes. ♪ hydrate like our heroes. ♪ mom and dad left costa rica, 1971. dad was a bus driver at the chicago transit authority. mom expressed herself through her food.
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another mass shooting in america, the second one in less than a week. ten people killed by a gunman inside a grocery store in boulder, colorado. among the dead, 51-year-old police officer who was the first to respond and who leaves behind seven children. cnn's dan simon is live at the scene for us in boulder with the latest. what's happening at that hour, dan? >> reporter: good morning, alisyn. so much shock, so much anguish. we are across the street from the grocery store where all this all took place, still a wide
swath taped off by police. a lot of questions this morning, alisyn. the main question, what would cause the shooter to go into that supermarket and start firing seemingly at random. at this point police have not disclosed the name of the suspect. they haven't provided any operating theories on whey he went to the grocery store and began opening fire. the meantime, you did have several people inside that store, all of those shoppers, frantically running for safety, some people jumping off of loading docks just to try to get safe and others hiding in coat closets, things of that nature. this is how some of the eyewitnesses, some of the people in the store described what was happening. take a look. >> oh my god. guys, we got people down inside kings soopers. look. there's -- holy [ bleep ]. >> this feels like the safest spot in america. and i just nearly got killed for getting a soda.
you know? and a bag of chips. >> half a dozen storm troopers, half a dozen cops came in through the roof, got him and then told them stay quiet and they're okay. i just -- this is not okay with me. and this is put in a big pitch for gun control. this is -- you know, when it's your family, you feel it. >> reporter: well, we know that the initial investigation will take several days to complete, which will include processing the scene, talking to witnesses, taking a look at any potential surveillance video and trying to gather as much information as possible about the suspect. we do know that a news conference has been scheduled by boulder authorities at 10:30 a.m. eastern time this morning where we hope to glean new information about the suspect and about the victims. john, we'll send it back to you. >> dan simon for us in boulder.
thank you. i know you're standing by for more details. please keep us posted. breaking overnight, a huge fire at an assisted living facility outside of new york city, 40 miles outside of the new york city. the blaze engulfed the building before just it just collapsed. officials tell cnn that some residents and one firefighter are still unaccounted for. cnn's miguel marquez racing to the scene. he is now live for us in spring valley, new york. miguel what can you tell us? >> reporter: yeah. i want to show you where things are right now. this is sort of the common area of the building right here. you can see that police and fire are still on this building here. if you look all the way down the block, it's a huge facility and goes much of the way down the block. you can see how much of it has been destroyed down in that area. this went out as a call around midnight. it's now almost 7:00 a.m. this is how long they have been here. there's an absolute army of emergency personnel here. here is how one witness
described what they saw. >> there was plenty of just good samaritans out here, like probably eight of them, that literally ran into the building and bring them out in the wheelchairs, walkers, literally picking them up and physically removing them out of the danger. we were trying to talk to them, we'll take them somewhere else, different facility that could be watching but then watching their facility, their home going down in flames was something really traumatic. >> reporter: so, this is an assisted living facility, everything from seniors to people with adults with disabilities of all sorts. some of them may have had a much more difficult time moving, which may have complicated rescue attempts here. but what we are hearing as lots of reports about people being rescued and pulled out of here a-okay, there was an early report that a firefighter was
missing, that another firefighter possibly the same one had gone to the hospital. those are all things we're wrapping up. we talked to officials here, they say they hoped to have something more later, but it is an absolutely massive scene they're dealing with and that fire is still burning. >> let's hope soon we get all people accounted for. obviously the pictures overnight were simply terrible. thank you for being there for us. stunning admission from one of trump's former lawyers who says that, quote, no reasonable person would have believed her election lies. still your best friend. and now your co-pilot. still a father. but now a friend. still an electric car. just more electrifying.
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defamation lawsuit against her from dominion voting system. the way she is doing it might just explode your brain. a new court filing her lawyers argue, quote, reasonable people would not accept such statements as fact, but view them only as claims testing by the courts through the adversary process. joining us now, cnn legal analyst, former president prosecutor, ellie. you're a wicked smart guy and wicked smart lawyer. i don't know we need someone as smart or good as you to explain how just outrageous this is. this is someone who wentz on tv, went before courts, yelling and screaming, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud. and now she's saying, no reasonable person would actually take what i said as fact. >> yeah, john. it's official. sidney powell is a massive fraud. that's according to sidney powell herself. similarly, the whole election fraud narrative, that too is a complete fiction, complete fraud.
that also, according to sidney powell. like you said, as sidney powell herself says, no reasonable person could believe this. it's also importantly not a legal defense here in a defamation case. it's not a good defense, weak defense, bad defense, it's not a defense. it's the opposite of a defense because the two things dominion has to prove here in order to win its lawsuit are, one, the statements were false, and two, that the person who made the false statements knew they were false. sidney powell has now essentially come out and admitted both of those things. >> also ellie, is it true? didn't a lot of people believe her? wasn't there an insurrection -- this minor matter of an insurrection at the capitol where people who believed those false claims stormed the building, five people dead? >> right. i mean, it's not -- there's proof right in front of us that many, many people believed those claims. not just the people who stormed the capitol, but really millions of people across the country who continue to believe in this fiction that the election was stolen. maybe if there's a silver lining
here, maybe people will see that one of the leading perpetrators of this lie has now come out and said publicly it was a lie. maybe we can get something out of this and correct the record a little bit. >> yeah. there was something to this defense, too, which may ring as fl familiar to some people, call it the fox news defense. this is an argument that fox news or fox lawyers have said in defense of some things that tucker carlson said, he said would a reasonable viewer be coming here and thinking this is where i'm going to be hearing the news of the day? question mark. that was a lawyer for fox. it's very similar, it's very similar to the sidney powell argument. >> it is, john. the sad thing is what they're trying to do is take advantage of legal protections that are given to parody, to things that are obviously meant as sort of sarcastic or humorous social commentary. for example, if saturday night live or mad magazine or onion
ran an article saying what sidney powell was saying this election was stolen because of some bizarre hacking scheme involving venezuela or something you saw in the onion, you would know, of course, obviously that's a joke. you can't sue the onion for defamation. the fact that sidney powell and fox are trying to say, we're like the onion. we're like mad magazine. that says an awful lot and not going to work legally. >> it is interesting. it sort of did work for tucker. there's a difference between sidney powell, who is working as a lawyer, making a case and working as a spokesperson for a public official and then what you just referred to as the a parody show that runs on fox a day. >> yeah. what tucker carlson is trying to say, well, it's all opinion. that's a fine line. if you're talking about what sidney powell did and said, you can't just take an outrageous statement of fact, this election was hacked. this election was rigged. and then just throw in my opinion on the front and be completely covered legally.
opinions are different from statements of fact. but, yeah, again, it's not a great reflection on the journalistic credibility of tucker carlson. >> ellie honig, appreciate it as always. thank you for being a great lawyer and mind. >> thanks, john. thousands of drug convictions could be thrown out because of ties to a now closed state lab. we have new details next. some say this is my greatest challenge ever. but i've seen centuries of this. with a companion that powers a digital world, traded with a touch.
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anywhere in the country. it's been going on for years and years, not over yet. now the prosecutor in charge of cleaning up the mess is proposing a wide-ranging solution, which basically may involve throwing out tens of thousands of cases because of one chemist named annie duken worked at the hinton lab between 2003 and 2012, convicted of tampering with evidence. now, the district attorney rachel rollens is reviewing tens of thousands of cases, handled by the lab during that period, to see whether they need to be dismissed. she did put out a statement that said after years of litigation, this is an important step toward restoring faith and trust in the criminal justice system. and she talked about systemic management of the hinton lab, saying it rendered anything produced there is inherently suspect. so, the numbers here are just staggering. it's an extremely shocking case.
and may be going on for some time. that lab analyzed and certified nearly 83,000 samples from suffolk county during those nine years, according to the d.a.'s office, well, more than 7,800 of those cases were vacated. the initiative will review approximately 74,800 remaining certifications. back to you. >> those numbers are staggering, joe. thank you very much. please keep us posted. so ten people killed in a mass shooting in colorado. our breaking news coverage continues right now. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and all around the world, this is "new day." the front page of the denver post captured all-too familiar american nightmare, ten people killed in a mass shooting at a supermarket in boulder, colorado. of course, this is our reoccurring nightmare. shooting comes less than a week at the spa shootings in georgia that left eight people dead.
in colorado alone there have been so many mass shootings that they have come to be known by just one name, columbine, aurora, the one known victim from monday's incident is 51-year-old police officer eric talley, the first officer to respond to the scene, and he leaves behind seven children. we will hear from an eyewitness to this shooting in just a moment. >> boulder police have a suspect in custody. authorities say he was injured and apprehended at the scene. his motive unknown at this hour. one senior law enforcement source tells cnn an ar-style rifle was used in this massacre. colorado senator john hickenlooper now calling for federal action on gun control. let's go live to the scene and get the very latest. cnn's dan simon is there. dan, what can you tell us? >> reporter: good morning, john. just so much shock and sadness that here we are talking about another mass shooting happening in this country at another mass
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