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tv   Cuomo Prime Time  CNN  April 21, 2021 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT

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lease the 2021 nx 300 for $349 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. president biden says his administration's metity goal of 200 million americans receiving the covid-19 vaccine in the first hundred days. 216 million doses have been given across the country. it's a little more than 40% of all adult americans receiving at least one dose of the vaccine. among seniors, the numbers nearly 81% have received one dose and 66% are now fully vaccinated. the president added more incentive, calling on businesses to give employees paid time off,
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to get the vaccine. announcing he would give nonprofits and small businesses a tax credit to offset the cost. let hand it over to chris cuomo for prime time. >> thanks, coop. appreciate it. i am chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time." here we are trying to figure out, what comes next? you had the verdict yesterday. we did see some different developments already. we know that the department of justice under the care of merrick garland, that they are going to open up an investigation into policing in minnesota, okay? what are they looking at? the obvious. does that police force have a pattern of excessive force and unlawful conduct against citizens? now the immediate interest there will be the initial police statement on how george floyd died. remember, the police initially called this a health incident. there was no mention of the knee on the neck or the duration. and this would have never gone to trial, had had it not been
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for the case being taken away. so the white how says president bush -- president biden is going to push policing reform nationwide. he's going to do it in an address to joint session next week. how likely is that? many on the right don't believe systemic racist exists. many on the right believe that any problem with policing is a figment of the left's imagination. that's why it's a big unknown whether you'll get any bipartisan play on the george floyd act. in terms of change i think we saw an answer before we even got the floyd verdict in terms of what is the state of play and the answer is, the state of play hasn't really changed. that was one case. before we got that verdict, in the moments before, there was another police killing, a lethal
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shooting of a 16-year-old black girl named ma'khia bryant. now this happened at the hand of police in columbus, ohio. i have to tell you, though, if you think you know about this story, you may not, if you haven't seen the video. the early reports about this situation that were coming in to us last night were varied and very misleading. but now we have tape, okay? to be clear, the circumstances of this latest case are very different than that of the george floyd situation. but the issue will be the same. was the use of force justified? and, once again, there is body camera footage that was released quickly. now this transparency with the body cam video is newfound and fundamental. we saw it with other recent cases, daunte wright in minnesota, the 20-year-old with the mistake between the taser and the pistol and adam toledo. the 13 year-old in chicago. lt officer thought he had a gun.
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fired one and killed him. both body cams were released quickly. trust is at a premium. now also this latest case in ohio that i'm about to show you, and the two that preceded it, they all involve young people, okay? they are all, each and all, about the opposite use of time as with george floyd. meaning these cases are all split-second decisions. now while the images can be tough, disturbing, if you want to understand what happened, you need to watch. so this is the latest case in columbus, ohio. this started with a 911 call. and here it is. >> 911. where is your emergency? what's going on? >> oh, my god! come out here! we got girls over here trying to fight us, trying to stab us, put our hands on our grandma. get here now! >> do you see any weapons? ma'am, do you see any weapons? >> we need a police officer here now.
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>> now we don't know who it was that made that call. but she referred to someone trying to stab her. we have the body camera footage and can see what the officer saw in real time. >> hey. >> get my mama out. >> what's going on? what's going on? hey, hey, hey! get down! get down! get down! get down! [ shots fired ] >> i didn't do anything! this man is not supposed to be here. >> back up. >> she had a knife. she just went at her. >> that's the voice of the officer there. she had a knife. she just went at her. there's a lot going on there. let walk through it slowly as the analysis that will be done
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by investigators in judging whether or not this was a justifiable use of force, okay? when they pull up the first scene, obviously, you've got a group fighting, what they call a mele, all right? the female in the jeans -- officer comes out, you don't see his gun right away. can't seen his right hand so i don't know. he probably has his hand on it. he sees this girl get knocked down by ma'khia bryant, okay? the man standing on the right then proceeds to kick the woman or attempt to kick her in the head. ma'khia makes an advance toward a woman in a pink sweat suit up against a car. the officer saw the knife. he starts to give verbal commands. now, there are a lot of decisions he had to make in a very short amount of time. at the end, you heard the voice of the officer who fired those four shots identified as nicholas reardon, been on the force since 2019. you heard him tell a witness she had a knife. she just went at her.
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the question is, does that justify the use of force? split-second decision, absolutely. it's a hard job. it has to be analyzed by what he saw, the distance, which is going to be a big part of the analysis here, the options presented to the officer in his own mind and then you have to start with inaction. could he or should he have done nothing? could he have physically restrained -- because he had gotten in there. did he have time? did he have the capability, the inclination? is that the rule? could he have used a taser? what are the rules there? what is the difference? distance. what were the different criteria for whether or not a taser is right? what are they trained to do? the knife being involved. how does that change things for the officer? and then the number of shots fired. will that be justified?
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part of the analysis that i can do in advance, no officers in any police department in this nation that i know of are trained to fire warning shots or to aim for nonlethal opportunities with a weapon, meaning shoot you in the foot, shoot you in the arm. they are not trained to do that. if you are going to use a weapon, it is because you've made an assessment of imminent threat to you or someone else. the duty for the officer goes to your life or another's, meaning the woman in the pink sweat suit. but none of them are given the ability, unless they want to take it on themselves, to shoot somewhere else. they are trained center mass and to fire until the threat is put down. now, what reardon did not have, we do, which is the benefit of slow mo. some will say this isn't fair in assessing his decisions. i'm not using it for that.
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i'm using it for us, so that we can assess what we see in this situation. when i use the slow mo, it will be much more apparent. here it is. so reardon has arrived. the woman has already been thrown on the ground. that's what he sees. it's a big knife in her hand, not a pocket knife. he sees the woman in the pink sweat suit, not positioned to fight back. the woman has been knocked down. go ahead. the woman gets knocked down. there's a man who comes behind ma'khia who comes up go,s at the woman, that knife is highlighted. that woman is in no position to defend herself. where do you see the knife, the arm position of ma'khia bryant and what it looks like she's about to do? this is in slow mo. show that one more time. the knife, the position of the arm and what it seems like is going to happen. the arm comes up to the shoulder, over the shoulder and does seem to be going down toward the woman in the pink sweat suit.
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now we see the officer with the gun. did he pass leather? meaning, did he take it out of the holster because he saw the knife? that's important here. why did he go for the gun automatically and not the taser? bryant did appear to move quickly toward the woman in the pink. you hear reardon yelling get down, get down. was that the right verbal command? the officer extremes instructions, get down, get down. bryant's arm is raised. he takes the shots. that's what we see in the video. the question is, what are the right steps for assessment? i'm not saying slow mo is a fairway to assess it for whether or not the officer did the right thing. i know he had to do it in real time. let's continue our analysis right now, which is to bring in the better minds, okay? anthony barksdale and van jones joining us right now. gentlemen, once again, thank you. i wish it hadn't been so soon, but it is good to have you both. you saw the video.
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without just drowning people in it all night, bark, when you look at the video, what's your initial assessment as to whether or not what the officer did was justified or unjustified. >> chris, i believe the officer's actions were justified and reasonable. it is a tragedy. yes, it is, but his actions were valid. >> now you know what people say. valid? 16-year-old girl? a knife? he couldn't have done anything else? he couldn't have gotten in there, use the taser? did he have to pull a pistol? should police be coming to an event like this. that's the pushback from a lot of the black community. what do you make of those snap judgments and concerns? >> she has a knife. she is actively attacking another black, young girl, and
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the officer had to take action. once again, chris, policing isn't pretty. it's not perfect, but sometimes that officer has to do what he or she has to do to save someone, and i believe that's what we saw. >> van, you understand the pushback that people have to this situation and what they're complaining about. obviously, the officer didn't know how old the people were involved but 16-year-old girl, her life gone in this situation, has made people very upset again. do you think that's a justifiable upset at the police? >> i do. you know, the one thing you want is for your kids to be able to survive their dumb mistakes. that's all. i don't know why that young girl was doing what she was doing. i don't know why she had the knife.
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i just can't -- have a hard time with this one. i understand -- again, i'm from a law enforcement family. i'm sure the cops are going to be justified because there's a deadly weapon there. pretty much that's the end of the conversation from a legal point of view. but from a community point of view, the fact that you have a police officer who seems to be in a situation where the first thing he goes for is a gun. maybe it's unlikely we didn't see the knife. it sounds terrible hear me out. i've seen so many white kids do so much crazy stuff, insane stuff, and they don't get arrested. they don't get shot. they don't get beat up. they don't get tased. they don't get anything. it's like the cops are there, babysitting for the neighborhood while total pandemonium happens. and then when i see the same kinds of behavior and, frankly, less crazy behavior happening in the community it's always yelling at kids, cursing at kids, threatening kids, sometimes hitting kids, sometimes tasing kids and you see sometimes shooting kids.
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it's just so hard to swallow that there wasn't some other option, that there wasn't some opportunity. if you went up to a bunch of white girls fighting, do you imagine cops shooting them? that's what i'm saying. it's hard to swallow. when you get through with all of it, i'm 100% resigned to the fact that the officer will probably be justified from a legal point of view. but there's something really wrong in just the mere facts that most of the community, we have no trust. just no trust at all. as soon as we got the verdict, everybody was happy. my god, another kid got killed. another kid got kill bid the cops. >> why don't the circumstances matter? what concerned me last night -- i was with you guys last night when we started hearing about this. bark came on later. i was with you and ramsay. the versions of this story were exactly what you're portraying it as now. i know you know the facts
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changed but it was just a fight and the cops shot her, you know. this is not just a fight. she's lunging with a long blade at somebody's head, neck, torso. if that were your kid in that pink sweat suit, would you have wanted the officer to let it go in there or run in there after she stabbed her a couple of times? >> i understand the cop, in some ways, is in a no-win situation and they're not trained to do nothing. i understand that, and we could have just as easily been sitting here saying cops don't care about kids, they let these kids stab each other to death and they didn't do anything. you could have the opposite scenario. what's sitting so poorly with me at a heart level. at a head level, i understand. >> how can it not? 16-year-old girl. >> that's what i'm saying. >> how can you not? everything we want is protection of the young. >> yeah. >> so they have a chance to do -- >> in a country where cops aren't armed, most countries. think about if you're in the uk, the cop doesn't reach for the
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gun because they can't reach for the gun. they wind up being trained very differently in conflict resolution, and, of course, they don't have a country where you've got guns everywhere. i'm not saying that. i'm just saying how much of it at the end of the day, maybe in this situation there's no other choice. it just sits so bad -- it's been bothering me all day. i think a lot of the people feel the same way. at the end of the day i want to figure out some way to talk people down more than we shoot them down. i see it happening in some communities more than i see it happening in others. >> i totally get what you're saying. this is a no-win situation because you lost life. as soon as that happens, there will never be an upside no matter what the remedy was. barks, you know, in this situation, is there something else? what would you have done? >> chris, and we all go back to what we talked about prior. observe, orient, decide, act. we got a call.
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the officer got a call that there is someone stabbing. so you're thinking armeded person. there's a knife. it's not taser, mays. -- mace. the officer must think gun. my force has to overcome a knife. so that's what's in his mind. then he sees the threat. he orients. he's looking where everybody is. i'm going to stop you and say something. he -- i'm looking at him take those shots while the woman in pink was right there. that is concerning, but at the same time, the threat was there. it was imminent, and he fired. so he made a decision. he decided that he was going to use force. >> i will say, though, anthony, did you see the faces on the other two officers? they looked a little in shock. they did not have weapons drawn. one seems to be a person in
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color, the other has on black long sleeves, though appears to be a white guy. they look surprised. they're looking at the officer and do not have weapons drawn. >> if we look at the angle the officer who fired is the one who sees the knife. i think one is coming from behind the vehicle, and he pulls his gun out to sweep while she's still on the ground. so he didn't see, in my opinion, what was going on. that officer went right into that situation and in split seconds, that hot call really got hot and, unfortunately -- and i'm with van on this. it is -- you're tired of it. if there's another solution, i believe we do need to work on it, but right now, for this particular incident, the officer is justified in that use of force, in my opinion. >> i've got to jump. van, i've got to go.
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i'm sorry. look, this conversation will be continued. i hope god willing, not because we keep having cases but start talking about solutions. thank you both, gentlemen. appreciate you. making police more accountable in his city when he got word of this shooting last night. i want to bring him in to get his reaction to the body cam videos and what he thinks. is there something that could have made this go differently? is there a way to do it better? next.
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all right. here is the question. could the situation in columbus have been handled otherwise? my next guest is looking at exactly this. he's in a position to help.
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president of the columbus city council, shannon hartin. thank you for joining me. >> thank you for having me under these very tragic circumstances. >> do you believe it had to go the way it went? >> you know what, chris? i am in leadership of a city that is mourning today, that is grieving. at the end of the day we have a 16-year-old, i call her a baby, ma'khia, who is not with us anymore. so, i don't have all the answers. what i do know is that the black community in particular is dealing with the fear that comes with policing in america. and our city is not immune to those fears and they're not immune to issues of policing in this country. >> understood. but, look -- there is no but.
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you lost a young life and that is horrible under any circumstances, but in terms of what you do with that pain, not all cases are the same. >> right. >> i really don't know what this officer -- i guess the officer could have done nothing, but then what if she had really stabbed up that other girl? then people would say, see, he didn't do anything because he didn't care about her life the same way? i feel like the situation has to matter, too. i mean, when you look at the situation, i understand the pain and the mourning, but answers, clarity and transparency can really harness the pain in situations like this. what do you say about that? >> certainly. i think what we have done over the last 24 hours, i called the mayor and immediately releasing these videos. >> yes. >> provided that transparency. we're under an agreement with the state of ohio, bureau of criminal investigation, where any officer-involved shooting is immediately turned over so we have the independence,
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accountability. transparency and accountability matters. at the end of the day they're not going to bring back makhia. we have too many interactions with police officers that end in violent ways. and for us, we've been focusing on reform. yesterday when i found out about ma'khia, i was live, hosting a hearing to first-ever city review board to provide oversight and accountability. i had to process this in front of the community as we were hearing this. and i think back over the last eight, nine months since george floyd as we were putting out this statement yesterday where i was saying we were assigned a sigh of relief, the truth smacks us in the face and that for too many in our community there is no relief. since george floyd's killing in columbus -- in our city, we have banned no-knock warrants, we have decriminalized,
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demilitarized the military force. we have passed reforms that would weed out police officers with hate group affiliations and we passed 72% civilian police reform. but even this instance tells you we still have to do more. i believe in the term and the process of reimagining public safety. and not just here in columbus but all across this country. we have to bring down those situations where these officers are engaging with the community and say, do we need more mental health responders? we are asking police officers to deal with substance abuse, mental health, poverty. and they can't be trained to deal with all of this. so we have to support bringing in other folks to make sure that our residents get the appropriate response to the crisis at hand. >> i read a good amount of what you've been saying on this.
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people should do their own research on you. you just lost a 16-year-old. it's hard to move past that. you have to balance your equities here in terms of athis is what police face. you can't have them be demonized because then you'll never have trust in the community. it was interesting for me to get your take on this, son of ohio, lebron james came out hot out of the box. you're next. he deleted the tweet. then he wrote another message saying, hey, we've got to be calm. i deleted the tweet because i don't want to add with this. i'm just very upset about this 16-year-old being lost. it's a delicate balance, having people respect a very difficult job that that cop had to come to in that situation and also making sure that the job is as safe as it can be. am i right? >> you're 100% right, but everybody has the right to be angry. i have shed more tears today than i have any other day of my
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term of serving this city. so the anger and frustration is real. and understandable. we've seen interaction that tragically took the life of ma'khia. the important thing is we have an investigation. it's not about you or i answering the question, should he use a different weapon or not. we will have an investigation to look into those things and, candidly, i can't really speak on how i feel about that because there is an investigation. >> right. >> the worst thing i would want to do is in any way jeopardize those findings. the fact of the matter is, one thing i know for sure is that the baby's gone. and we, as a community, all of us -- i would say we, as a country, need to pass the george floyd policing act. our cities are trying. we are passing the reform. time and time again we are
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having these instances and too often the babies and the folks that are dying look like me. >> shannon hardin, you are right. and the pain is all too real. and it's all too frequent. i'm sorry for your community. i appreciate you addressing it, and addressing it here on the show. >> coop our city in your prayers. >> all right. be well. >> thank you. >> as i transition to commercial here, i know what the other side is on this. and really there can't be sides. she had a knife. this was bad. not every case is the same. i know. then why are they so upset? here is why people are upset. do you know how many situations like this were not as fact-friendly to a justified use of force as this one was, but there was no justice. there was no knife. it was a pushing match. it was someone who didn't want to listen. the pain is not just about one incident. it's a carry-over from a culture. you have to remember that as well. this is a tough case, because it was a kid. the facts are going to line up
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in a way that's going to make for a quick investigation. but that doesn't mean that this one incident gives us one reality. my next guest is not only a former law enforcement officer, she's now a lawmaker with the power to vote for police reform in congress. val demmings understands how hard this balance is as a leader, as a lawmaker and as a person of color. and she also understands that it's hot in here, in terms of this argument. she had a tiff with one of her colleagues about this on the subject. how does she see it? where are we headed? next. - [narrator] we miss being together, but you can still feel a strong sense of community with custom gear from custom ink. we've developed new tools to make it easy for you. custom ink has hundreds of products, including masks, to help you stay connected. upload your logo or start your design today at
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an impassioned rebuke from lawmaker val demings is going viral. she took it to congressman jim jordan who tried to present an amendment during a debate on hate crimes bill about racial violence against asian-americans. it made no mention of defunding police. demings didn't like it. here was her response. >> i served as a law enforcement officer for 27 years. it is a tough job, and good police officers deserve your support.
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you know, it's interesting to see my colleagues on the other side of the aisle support the police when it is politically convenient to do so. law enforcement officers risk their lives every day. they deserve better, and the american people deserve -- i have the floor, mr. jordan. did i strike a nerve? >> the gentle lady -- >> the law enforcement deserves better than to be utilized as pawns and you and your colleagues should be ashamed of yourselves. >> the gentle lady will suspend and the clock will be stopped. >> house judiciary chair there, jerry nadler obviously tried to step in. val demings is no joke. she knows the job and the politics have gotten ugly around policing. it's the hardest job in the world even in columbus, ohio. how do you think that officer feels tonight after having to do the job that he had to do there? she believes there's a strategy behind playing police as pawns and she also believes there's a better way forward.
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it's great to be with you. let me just say this. as you well know, we're dealing with some critical issues in our nation. criminal justice reform, covid-19, crumbling infrastructure. we're dealing with some serious issues. yesterday, we were looking at legislation dealing with hate crime, really trying to address the increase in violence against asian-americans in this country. as a result of the violent rhetoric from the former president. i would think if mr. jordan was so concerned about protecting law enforcement, then he would be very interested in passing legislation that reduces hate crimes that law enforcement has to deal with. and so what we saw yesterday was just another political game where he was trying to distract us, distract the committee, distract the american people from the real issues, and using and trying to use law enforcement as a political pawn. i didn't like it. we need to stay focused.
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and i spoke up about it. >> yes, you did. the idea of getting change through congress, what do you think the chances that the george floyd law gets through when the mentality in the senate is not that different from the right in the house? they don't believe in systemic inequality. they don't believe in these needed changes. they don't want to get rid of choke holds. what do you think it is that you get the george floyd act passed? >> you know, chris, yesterday, we saw -- we heard the verdict. guilty on all charges. during the trial we saw bystanders from a 9-year-old girl, teenagers and others come forward and testify. we saw the police chief testify, police lieutenant testify, the training officer testify. they all said we do not teach this technique and this is not our ethics or our values. so we've already seen some
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things that we are not used to seeing resulting from the george floyd trial. i am hoping that the members of the u.s. senate were paying attention and will seize this opportunity to join america, to join the citizens, to join good law enforcement officers who certainly want to see change so that they can be better. i'm hoping the senate is paying attention and will step up to the moment and do the right thing and pass this legislation. is it going to solve all of our problems? no. it cannot. but coming together in a very meaningful way and listening to the american people, and wanting to fix our own brokenness is a heck of a good start. >> it is a good start if you can get a start. they are not accepting on the right fringe this verdict as what you just put it out there as. they are seeing it as mob mentality turned into a fear tactic, that that jury was scared into this.
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that even the president was putting pressure on them to create a certain outcome. now, i have sound teed up from this guy over on hate tv but i'm not going to play it. i'm not going to echo what he says. you know what they're saying. this was -- the jury got scared into it. now you have this situation in columbus, ohio, where this young woman, for whatever reason, decides to take a knife and go at this other girl. the cop winds up shooting her four times, killing her. they're using that as an example. what was the policeman supposed to do here, let her get stabbed? how do you get past the rhetoric of the fear that people are demonizing the police, that you're scaring people into verdicts? you have to get past that before you can get to legislation. >> you know, chris, any thought that the jury was scared into their verdict is an insult to them and it's an insult to a
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system. while it's not perfect, it is an insult to our system of justice. look, i have had an opportunity to spend considerable amount of time with juries in my career. they are men and women who step up to the plate and they serve their communities with honor and distinction. they saw the video, just like the whole world did. they heard the testimony, just like the whole world did. i would love to hear what the republicans thought the use of force was if they did not think it was excessive, that it was inhumane, that it was inappropriate. the evidence is clear. but i know that they're asking us not to believe our eyes and our ears. shame on them. i commend the jury for weighing the evidence, which was clear and convincing. and, obviously, the prosecution convinced them beyond any reasonable doubt in this case.
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and so i am again hoping that we can find enough good men and women, courageous members of the u.s. senate to get this done on behalf of our nation. you know, i said yesterday that justice prevailed but, look, we know that justice is more than just one verdict and one incident. we still have a lot of work to do, but we cannot get that work done without bringing law enforcement and the community together. everybody counts, but everybody is accountable and responsible. lawmakers at the local, state and federal level. chris, this is our moment. and i am hoping and praying we will rise to this moment. >> i'll give you the last word. representative val demings, thank you for coming on and the continued good work. >> thank you.
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department of justice looking at minneapolis specifically. look at minneapolis specifically within their probe will be how george floyd was handled by the police in the beginning. now the doj has done this before. they actually probe policing in baltimore when freddie gray died in police custody in 2015. you remember that case was a heartbreak for a lot of people in that community. there were all these charges that they weren't used to hearing about against police but not a single conviction. what change came from the investigation of the baltimore police? what did they find? is it better because of that case? marilyn mosby knows and she's here, next. at qvc, we're celebrating you during our friends and family event. all april long you'll find the brands you love, and love the ones you get to discover. the hosts, experts, and personalities with the stories behind the products, and special deals every day. including 40% off an ever-changing selection of products. savings end soon, only on qvc and
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a day after derek chauvin's conviction, in the murder of george floyd, the justice department announced a sweeping investigation into the minneapolis-police department. it's the first-such pattern or practice investigation, in the biden administration. it's not the first of its kind. but it is marking a return to increased-federal oversight on policing. the trump administration used this kind of investigation, just once, over the past-four years. stark contrast, to the more-than-two-dozen civil rights investigations launched under president obama. wo one of those was launched in
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baltimore and it came after the death of freddy gray while in police custody. it was ruled a homicide, and resulted in a consent decree. which is, a willing statement of change by that office or department. maryland mosby was the prosecutor and in that state's case, and is the state's attorney for baltimore city. it's good to see you, counselor. >> thank you for having me, chris. >> do you believe that the doj made a meaningful difference in baltimore? >> i, absolutely, do. i mean, first and foremost, i think that we are in a very unique, sort of, moment. i think that, what we saw yesterday is a first step towards equality. and accountability. but accountability is so, incredibly important, right? because when you look at what happened in freddy gray in 2015, that accountability, which wasn't being had in this country, led to exposure. a week after i charged those officers, the department of justice came in. exposed a mapattern and practic
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of discriminatory policing in the eighth-largest police department in the country. that exposure, ultimately, led to reform. and even despite the fact that the trump administration tried to stop it, it's still on record. and what we can point to is tangible, sort of, reforms that were put into place, as a direct result of that accountability. right? so, you look at the -- the federal consent decree. the body-worn cameras on all officers. we didn't have that implementation in the city of baltimore, before that decision. before that accountability. we have use-of-force and deescalation policies that emphasize the sanctity of life. we have the affirmative duty to intervene when your fellow officers cross the line. police officers are mandated to call a medic when requested by a prisoner. the mandate to seatbelt all prisoners, right? we even have cameras in some of the police wagons where we don't have to just rely on circumstantial evidence, like we did in freddy gray. and then, there is also software
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verification that ensures police accountability. so, there are tangible reforms. but let's be clear. there are, still, systems that prevent police accountability, that we have to ensure that we -- we -- we reform. >> accountability goes hand in hand, with culture. do you believe that the investigation, and your prosecution, was a catalyst for culture change? is there any indication? >> i mean, you hit the nail on the head, chris. this is about culture change, right? this is not a training issue. right? and -- and at the end of the day, what we have to be cognizant of and this is something that i said last night, is i thought that keith ellison and the prosecution team did a phenomenal job. we had video evidence that was vital, and could not be contradicted. but at the end of the day, the one thing i disagreed with them about was the fact that this did not represent policing in america.
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what -- what derek chauvin did to george floyd, absolutely, represents what policing has been for black people in this country. and so, it's a culture shift, absolutely. what do we need to do? we need to reform it. so when you look at the law enforcement bill of rights that ties police departments' hands from getting rid of problematic offices. we need to make sure we do that. we have done that in the state of maryland. when it comes to investigating, police investigating themselves, your prosecution is only going to be as good as the investigation. no profession should be in the business of investigating themselves. so, there are systemic reforms that need to be put into place, that we are moving towards. and in the state of maryland, i'm happy, through the leadership of the -- the first-black speaker of the house, we passed historic police-accountability reform. but nationally, we have got to understand. we have to move, from protests, to policy, and implement these types of reforms. >> every case is different. when the doj looks at minnesota, they are going to have low fruit, like the fact that the --
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the department didn't even mention the knee on the neck in the initial assessment. said it was a health incident. and then, there are things that are hard, like the columbus, ohio, case we're looking at right now. 16-year-old girl. that loss of life is unbearable for that community. and, of course, her family. but officers have a hard job. and now, in that case, the officer is getting all kind of scrutiny. he was put in a bad position because that's the job for these guys. how do you help people understand that, as well? >> i mean, you're absolutely right. i mean, i can tell you, i come from law enforcement. my -- my grandfather was one of the founding members of the first-black police organization in -- in -- in massachusetts. and the one thing i can tell you. they risk their lives, each and every day. but there is a culture of stigmatization and criminalization, that is imposed upon black people in this country. >> i hear you. >> that we have got to change. that's one of the reasons why, a month ago, i came out and basically said we're not prosecuting these low-level offenses that have nothing to do with public safety.
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we have to stop relying on the police to respond to every social ill of society that, for black people in this country, can lead to a death sentence. >> i hear ya. >> when you look at freddy gray. he made eye contact with police in a high-crime neighborhood. eric garner was allegedly selling cigarettes. george floyd, passing -- allegedly, giving a counterfeit bill during a global pandemic for groceries, right? daunte wright. air fresheners, right? like, so at the end of the day, there are systemic reforms that need to be put into place. and this is the beginning, to ensuring those reforms come into place. >> marilyn mosby, i appreciate the passion. and thank you for the intellect that you bring to the situation. appreciate you. >> thank you. thank you for having me. >> we'll be right back. (man) phone it in? way ahead of you. daddy's saving money. (burke) go ahead, phone it in. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪
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