tv The Situation Room With Wolf Blitzer CNN October 14, 2021 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
room." i'll see you tomorrow. happening now, the january 6th select committee is now moving steve bannon in criminal contempt after he defied his subpoena deadline. i'll ask the chairman about what comes next and when his team expects to get answers. also tonight, moderna booster shots just got a green light from fda vaccine advisers. they unanimously recommend that a third dose for older and at-risk americans. this as the president warns we're in a very critical period right now of this pandemic. and a huge new union strike is adding to the pressure on president biden. he's now facing multiple blows to the u.s. economy at once. is his messaging part of the problem? we want to welcome our viewers here in the united states and
around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." we begin with the criminal contempt charge in the works for trump loyalist, steve bannon, over his defiance of the january 6th select committee. bannon ignoring, ignoring a subpoena deadline he faced today. our correspondent is following the investigation for us. it looks like, as they say, they're not messing around at all. >> no. in fact, they're sending a message to bannon and the other witnesses they're targeting this this investigation that if you don't comply, they will try to force you but it's a lengthy process. it's ultimately up to the attorney general whether to actually prosecute. tonight, lawmakers investigating january 6th move to hold long time trump add vviser steve ban
in contempt after he defied their subpoena. in a statement, the chairman said he will not tolerate defiance of our subpoenas, so we must move forward. >> we're not fooling around. we expect people to fulfill their lawful duties. >> bannon has said he will not co co co comply unless ordered by a court, noted that trump said he would invoke executive privilege. in a letter to lawmakers, bannon's lawyer wrote that is an issue between the committee and president president trump's counsel. while lawmakers said they are seeking to truth, bannon didn't address it in his podcast today. instead, just repeating the big lie. >> stolen elections have consequences and that's what we're seeing now. >> bannon was not the only no show on capitol hill today. sources tell cnn the committee
agreed to a short postponement of the scheduled deposition with former trump pentagon official, kash patel. multiple sources tell cnn patel continues to engage with lawmakers, but in a podcast interview thursday, represent adam schiff referred to him as an evil zealot who was willing to do anything trump wanted. >> he rose phoenix like. even then contemplated to take over the cia. >> schiff also emphasized the committee is interested in how trump tried to pressure officials to overturn the 2020 election. yesterday, the committee sent another subpoena to former official, jeffrey clark. investigators cite credible evidence that he was involved in efforts to interrupt peaceful transfer of power, even proposing the justice department send a letter to state legislators in georgia and other states suggesting they delay
certification of election results. a source familiar say it is likely he will testify. on wednesday, former acting attorney general jeffrey rosen, who pushed back on clark's efforts to overturn the election, spoke with investigators for eight hours. trump can still file a legal challenge to try to block requests from the committee, but it's unclear if he will be successful. on wednesday, he issued a statement suggesting republicans won't vote in 2022 or 2024 if 2020 election fraud is not, quote, solved. trump released a statement today attacking the committee saying it should hold itself in criminal contempt. now former trump advisers, mark meadows and dan ska serene -- it's unclear if either man will cooperate, but they saw today what will happen if they don't. >> thank you very much. let's discuss all of this with
the chairman of the select committee investigating the january 6th attack. mr. chairman, thank you so much for joining us. i know you're moving ahead with holding steve bannon in criminal contempt. how will this work? i know you'll be meeting tuesday with your committee then this becomes in the hands of the justice department? >> well, it's a process, wolf. by the way, thank you for having me. the process starts with our business meeting on tuesday evening. we will entertain the motion to hold steve bannon in criminal contempt. that process then will be forwarded for consideration by the house representatives. if the house of representatives agree with the standing committee's recommendation, then the speaker will be authorized to transmit that document to the
attorney general of the united states and it's then his job to pursue the criminal contempt claim. >> has the attorney general told you he is willing to prosecute a criminal indictment if it's referred by the house to the department of justice? >> no. we have intentionally kept ourselves separated from justice. we don't want anyone saying, well, you all were colluded together. this is what the law requires us to do. i hope that attorney general once they get it, he will look at it and say we need to expedite this indictment for grand jury. so we kept arms length away. we've shared committee's wishes.
we've actually tried to negotiate with all our -- we've seen the work that's out. steve bannon and his advice for president trump leads us no choice. and so the committee will do what we're required to do in the legislature that says we have to find the facts. we think steve bannon has information as to remain what happened on january 6th and if he refuses the subpoena like we expect him to continue to do, then we're left with no other choice than to ask the justice department, lock him up and hold him in contempt and clearly, that might send enough of a message that he will agree to talk to us. >> but as you know, mr.
chairman, prosecuting bannon or other witnesses for that matter, could take a long time, maybe years. so realistically, what's the goal of criminal contempt? you really think you'll compel testimony or is this meant to send a powerful message to other witnesses? >> well, i think it's both, wolf. what we want to do is get to the facts. we could support a criminal contempt or we could look at a civil contempt. there are other thing available to us, but we think the criminal gets us to where we need to be in the shortest period of time. we have to get all the information. we have received thousands of pages of information from different agencies about what they were doing during this process. the platforms. facebooks. google. all of them have really cooperated substantially in
providing us information to our work, but now we have to talk to some of the people who actually started this process. >> i know you've agreed at least for now to postpone the appearances by mark meadows, dan scavino and kash patel. is it a mistake to allow these key trump allies to potentially, potentially, run out the clock on your investigation? >> well, we don't expect them to run out the clock. we going to make the case that we negotiated in good faith with the other three. if we decide that the negotiations in fact running out the clock, we'll stop it. but if we have to make our argument that we gave the process every attempt to work, that's what we plan to do. we have in mr. bannon's instance, he's just defied
everything. so we are moving expeditiously on the criminal contempt. we expect that process to go forward this coming tuesday night. we've established a time of 7:30. the committee will meet. we expect we will take action on him at that time. for consideration for the full house of representatives to be brought up sometime after that. >> as far as the other three that you've subpoenaed, what is their level of engagement actually look like, mr. chairman? how long are you willing to quote, engage before considering criminal contempt for them as well? >> well, i think our lawyers are talking to them. they all have counsel and we're trying to establish to get information, we're trying to establish a time to take deposition. and if our team tell us that those three individuals are not
bargaining in good faith, then we going in another direction. but for right now, we are attempting to negotiate. if the negotiations fail, then we will not hesitate one bit on moving on a criminal or civil referral on this matter. >> former president trump just put out yet another statement attacking your select committee calling it, i'm quoting him now, the january 6th unselect committee. he says once again, i'm quoting, that people are not going to stand for your investigation. beyond all the rhetoric, have you heard anything from the trump, the trump legal team? >> no. all we've heard is from the president's statements. but wolf, everybody that i know saw what happened on january
6th. so clearly, that's not who we are as americans. if former president trump thinks he can get away with what happened on january 6th by being cute with his press releases, then he has another thing coming. our committee, bipartisan committee, takes our work very seriously and we will pursue it. and so his attempt to deflect our work will not work. we will continue. we'll be deliberate in how we do it, but i assure you, i assure the public, that at the end of the day, the committee expect full cooperation from everyone that we subpoenaed. >> what are the chances you'll subpoena trump? >> well, let me say, i appreciate the white house
agreement to look at executive privilege and give us consideration on a lot of the information we want. a lot of what we decide on former president trump is dependent on what we find in this information. but i am, i believe the biden information and deliberate efforts to make sure we have access to certain information. it's crucial to what we do. so i'm more supportive of the effort to make sure that our committee has access to all the information that we request. and those individuals who are trying to hide behind executive privilege, it won't occur. so can't say to steve bannon
should hide behind executive privilege when we wasn't in the government just because former trump says. it's not the law. so we'll follow the law. we'll make sure that in every instance, that's what we do. >> just want to -- on this matter. i want to be precise. are you ruling out or in the possibility of eventually subpoenaing trump? >> well, i would say this at this point, wolf. nobody is off limits. to a subpoena from this committee. >> i assume that means the former president as well. as you know, the biden administration is waiving executive privilege. how soon potentially do you think, mr. chairman, you'll start getting the documents from the final days of the trump white house? >> well, the process is kind of
cumbersome. they will have, they have to send some of the information to the trump people to look at. they'll have so many days to locate it and get it to us, but the clock is already ticking. some information we've already received and so we are moving forward. so we anticipate a cooperative relationship. all we want is to follow the direction of what congress said this committee should do. we want to follow the facts. we'll pursue the information. and based on that, we'll come back, with what we consider the right recommendations for congress to consider. >> yesterday, your colleague, congress schiff told me you subpoenaed former trump justice department official, jeffrey clark. his words, because we couldn't get voluntary cooperation. how critical is clark's
testimony to your investigation? >> well, his testimony, wolf, is very essential. as you know, he was a key player in terms of what was going on with the election and how the big lie was being promoted. so we need to hear from him. and congressman schiff is absolutely correct. all those individuals that we have subpoenaed so far, their testimony is important as well as their documentation, if it's available. it's critical to our committee's work. so in order to get it, we have to put those individuals on notice. everyone is under consideration and again, our work will be work that we will not push back on
anyone as we pursue to get to the truth. so i can assure the listeners and the viewers that our committee is committed to following the information and just as we are pursuing the criminal contempt on steve bannon, it is just the beginning. you will see more of this type work coming. but we'll start. we put our staff together. investigators. so it's a work in progress. >> i know you guys are working fast on all of this. cnn has learned that your committee did hear from the former acting attorney general, jeffrey rosen, during the final days of the trump administration. he had testified he appeared in person for what, about eight hours yesterday. was he able to elaborate on what we learned?
have you been able to elaborate on what we learned from the senate judiciary report that trump pressured him, pressured him, to try to quote, overturn the election? is that what you heard from rosen? >> well, that was some of the information. the senate's report as you know, we have in its entirety, basically said just that. the eight hours of testimony yesterday, more or less elevated what the senate report said. so the investigators on our staff pursued any and all questionings and they feel very solid that the information we have, both from the witness and the senate hearing is solid. >> that's significant what we just learned from rosen. from what rosen told you yesterday during his eight hours
of questioning. i assume am some point, mr. chairman, we'll get a transcript of that? is that right? >> oh, absolutely. you know, transparency at some point is important. but wolf, we're right in the middle of an investigation. a lot of things that we have discovered i'm not at liberty to tell you or other members of the public right now, but we are on a daily basis getting information that we think will absolutely support our effort to say who was responsible, what participants created january 6th and basically, we will tie all of the strings together so that once our report is done, anyone will be able to understand
exactly how close we came to losing our democracy on january 6th. >> it's, you know, when you look back, awful, awful situation. before i let you go, one quick follow up. are we going to hear from these witnesses in public testimony? will the cameras be there so the entire american public can hear what rosen and these others are saying? >> well, you know, you'll have access to the deposition and obviously a lot of what we are uncovering. it's on tape. so you will probably have access to that. it won't be in realtime. obviously. but you will have access to it, absolutely. >> all right, mr. chairman. we'll stay very, very close touch with you. thank you so much for joining us. appreciate it very much. >> thank you, wolf. >> thank you. let's get more on all these
developments. i want to dig deeper with cnn special correspondent, jamie, and cnn's senior legal analyst. jamie, you just heard the chairman, benny thompson, say, explain why they're so interested in steve bannon and what message they're sending by pursuing potential criminal contempt charges. what's your reaction? >> well, first of all, i think that was an extraordinary interview. chairman thompson doesn't do a lot of interviews and just to go back to a couple of things that he said about former president trump. if he thinks he can get away with being cute with his press releases, he has another thing coming. when you said to him about whether he would call the committee my call trump, he said quote, nobody is off limits. steve bannon is clearly a warning shot. they want bannon to know and
they want other witnesses to know that they're not fooling around. it can be a very long process as preet will tell you, but i think it speaks to the tenor of the message they're trying to send. and especially with steve bannon, who they see as a critical witness to january 5th. someone who had many phone calls with president trump. especially that december 30th call we know about where he tells him to come back f. then when he's in the willard hotel with rudy giuliani and they're calling back and forth to the white house. >> i thought it was very significant and news worthy, preet, what he said about jeff riff ro rey rosen. who answered questions behind
closed doors, but eventually we'll get the public transcript. for eight hours. what was your reaction? >> i think it's very significant. we are right to focus on the people who are going to be instructing and a dating process and not appearing to testify in front of the january 6th committee including steve bannon and others. so that's the glass that's half empty. the glass that's half full is about people like jeffrey rosen and others who are coming forward and probably getting more information than you and i are aware of. and their documents about which president biden is not exerting executive privilege including communications, my guess is that they're pretty substantial and noteworthy and we'll be seeing those. they're going to have gaps that need filling in over the course of time. get someone like, put in place, someone like steve bannon to testify. we'll see. but they are still going to have some substantial evidence-b bas
on testimony and documents. >> very quickly to both. he also left very open the possibility of eventually issuing a subpoena for trump himself. what was your reaction? >> i think he's right to do that. trump might need to see process at some point. >> what do you think, jamie? >> i think it opens up the trump family. remember, ivanka trump was with her father on january 6th. she was in and out of the oval office. i think that there are going to be a lot of people who are very close to the former president. >> we got to learn what happened back on january 6th so make sure it doesn't ever, ever happen again. guys, thank you very much. coming up, a boost for covid-19 booster shots. how soon a third dose of moderna's vaccine could be available for high risk americans. stay with us. you're in "the situation room." ♪
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step closer to being eligible for a booster shot. fda advisers have unanimously recommended a third dose for certain high risk groups. let's get details from nick watt. nick, tell our viewers more about this recommendation. >> well, wolf, there was a lot of debate, a lot of questioning, but it was a 19-0 vote. they are going to recommend moderna booster doses. remember pfizer booster doses already out there. they're going to recommend moderna for everybody 65 and up, for adults with at risk of severe disease and for any adult
at risk either where they work or live, at risk of contracting the virus. they heard today from moderna that the rep said listen, our virus holds up pretty well, but with delta, the boosters are definitely beneficial. they also heard from officials in israel where they have rolled out the boosters far wide and early and the israeli officials said so far, it is safe and proving to be very, very effective. now of course the cdc still has to sign off on this. this is a recommendation from this fda committee. now, after they took the vote, they talked for a while about whether they should recommend booste boosters for all adults in the u.s. and it was very, very clear they are not at all in favor of that as a recommendation right now. they say there's just not the data. there's just nothing to show that that would be beneficial. >> thank you very much. nick watt reporting for us. let's bring in dr. paul. a member of the fda vaccine
advisory committee. also author of the new book, you bet your life. from blood transfusions to mass vac vaccination, the long and risky history. i know you and your fellow fda advisers voted unanimously to approve moderna boosters for certain people. was this an easy decision based on the data you reviewed? >> i would say yes. it was an easy decision and that's why it was unanimous. so the people who had gotten two doses of moderna's vaccine, which was 100 micrograms, are recommended to receive under certain circumstances, a 50 microgram dose at least six months after that second dose. but it's interesting what nick was talking about how there was concerns about sort of making this a universal recommendation. meaning a booster dose as a universal recommendation for everybody over 18. i think the reason for that is we have to define what's the goal of this vaccine.
if the goal is protection against serious illness, the kind that causes you to seek medical attention or go to the hospital or icu, the current vaccines as two doses are doing exactly that. it's true for pfizer's vaccine and moderna's and it includes delta and all age groups. so really, you don't need a booster dose at least as far as those data are concerned. then the second issue is what is invariably true with any vaccine, the level of antibodies in your bloodstream will decline and with that, will have an increase in mildly symptomatic where you'll be contagious. do we want to prevent that? that's where this booster comes in. >> is there any harm in people younger than 65 for example who aren't necessarily high risk getting a booster dose? >> no. i do worry about this sort of 18 to 29-year-old because that's
the group that has a high risk of the infla obama administration of the heart muscle. i think we created this third dose fever in this council tri because of the way this has played out. and i think the biggest mistake we made communications wise with this vaccine and virus is using the term breakthrough infection to describe an asymptommatic infection. when brett kavanagh has an asymptomatic infection, it was a breakthrough. you listen to that, he was in the icu or something, implies failure. that's not a failure. it's a success. >> you want to be fully vaccinated and not have any serious problems. as usual, thank you so much. thanks for all you're doing as well. just ahead, mounting u.s. economic pressure causing growing problems for president biden right now. we'll have a closer look at the challenges and how the white house is now scrambling to confront them. that's next. son had autism,
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chain crisis, inflation woes, slow job growth. all of it putting growing economic pressure on president biden and his team. our senior white house correspondent, phil mattingly, has all the late breaking developments. >> tonight, the white house scrambled to put in place solutions to perilous economic pressures. >> we've been working on these pieces. they've been in process. >> even as they are in large part outside of their control. >> we're at this point because the unemployment rate has down and been cut in half because
people are buying more goods, because people are traveling and because demand is up and because the economy is turning back on. >> supply chain bottlenecks and price increases directly affecting critical consumer goods. gas prices up across the country due to both geo political and demand issues drawing direct attention. >> the president is very focused on this. he has asked him team about it. there are members of the team from the nsc working on this every day. >> now, 10,000 union workers going on strike against john deere. >> this is about basic fairness and respect along with pay. >> the white house not directly responding, but emphasizing biden's long held support for unions. >> president and vice president often say this is the most pro-union administration in history and they will continue to govern and lead with that in
mind. >> as the president kept his focus on countering the pandemic that has served as the a accelerate to each other. >> and white house officials acknowledging the easing of supply chain choke points and deacceleration of inflation will take months if not longer. >> this is the first key step. >> and pledging more action in the weeks ahead. as officials point to a range of positive indicators that signal a robust economic recovery. wage growth and average monthly job gains to unemployment claims last week dropping to a pre-pandemic low. consumer prices jumped more than expected in september. matching a 13-year high as americans pay more for meat, eggs, milk, homes, gas, and electricity. adding clear political pressure, at the moment, biden is desperately trying to unify
democrats behind his sweeping domestic agenda. >> we're eager to act. i wouldn't say it's impatience. >> as those same democrats openly question the effort to sell that very plan. >> i wish we could go through and talk about each element and spend, you know, ten minutes on each element so that people would understand what is in the bill. so i agree, there is a messaging problem. >> and while there is palpable frustration with messaging issues on both sides of pennsylvania avenue, there's also the real problem of trying to figure out what the policy is that democrats can agree on and get across the finish line in the house, in the senate. officials made clear the time to make decisions, the time to move forward is now. there is not an unlimited amount of time. something is going to be to have done soon, wolf. >> they've got to move quickly indeed. thanks very much. let's get more on all of this. cnn's senior commentator, john kasich, is joining us. governor, would you look at all
these economic challenges, especially rising prices right now, inflation, how much trouble does this spell for president biden? >> well, it's early still, wolf, but look. they can't spin this. they've got to acknowledge they have real problems. here i think is the fundamental problem, wolf. joe biden didn't run for president to try to remake america or to be lbj or fdr. he ran for president to bring us together. to stop the name calling and fighting. then mike don len wrote a memo and said they should pass the infrastructure deal, not the big thing, and that the two parties should meet in the middle. that will appeal to swing voters. so look, i endorsed joe biden. i expected him to be able to get people in a room, republicans, democrats, and work things out. they've had two tries. the first one was the stimulus package where they had it their
way and the republicans, they never met. then we had the infrastructure package where republicans helped then the president comes out and says we're not going to do that one until we get the other one. frankly, wolf, honestly, you've covered washington for a long time. with those democrats in this party who are extreme and out there, he needs to get rid of them and appeal to republicans to take their place to get the votes to get something done that helps americans. the infrastructure package. wildly popular. doing something about the rising cost of prescription drugs. they can work that out. being able to deal right now with this problem of you know, of trying to get these products into the country. inflation, you're not going to fix it by having more spending. you're not going to fix it by having more taxes on business right now. they need to listen and they need, and joe needs to reach out. he's an executive and you know
the problem is when you've been a legislator all your life, and i was, to switch to being an executive is tough. you've got to figure out when you're an executive what you're for and you can't let people talk you off it. you've got to show toughness and firmness. >> john kasich, as usual, thank you very much. coming up, as former president trump is becoming a factor in the closely watched virginia governor's race, we're told president biden is likely to step in. >> are you ready to start a great career? >> safelite is now hiring. >> you will love your job. >> there's room to grow... >> ...and lots of opportunities. >> so, what are you waiting for? >> apply now... >> ...and make a difference. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ >> man, i love that song!
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go until the votes are counted, virginia's republican gubernatorial nominee is continuing his delicate dance. embracing issues that animate the republican base while carefully navigating the support of former president donald trump, who called in to a conservative rally wednesday to praise him. even though he didn't attend. >> i hope glenn gets in there and he'll straighten out virginia. he'll lower taxes. do all of the things that we want a governor to do and i really believe that virginia is very, very winnable, but everybody has to go out and vote. >> the former president spoke about you last night. said glenn is a great guy. i hope he gets in there. you have any thoughts? >> well, he is a great guy. >> i think i'm a pretty good guy. going to work for all vir virginians. >> as he works to pull off an
upset in the increasingly blue old dominion against the democratic nominee, who served as governor from 2014 to 2018, he's trying to appeal to moderates. and independents. and is walking a tight rope. as the former president embraces him, he hardly says his name, but he's campaigning on issues that >> over the last many years, we have seen our curriculum all of a sudden being fused to the political agenda as opposed to the academic curriculum. when attendees using the flag was at the quote "peaceful rally on trump on january 6th."
a pledge of a llegiance that wa used to bring down the democracy. . >> i was not involved so i don't know. if that's the case then we should not pledge allegiance to that flag. by the way, i have been so clear, there is no place for violence, none. none in america today. mccaula has long tied youngkin to trump. >> mccaulife is bringing in heavy hitters to ramp up
enthusiasm. the white house suggests president biden will be back out on the trail soon as well. >> wolf. welcome to cnn and welcome to the situation room, eva mckend. >> we'll have more news right after this. regina approaches the all-electric cadillac lyriq. it's a sunny day. nah, a stormy day. classical music plays. um uh, brass band, new orleans. ♪ ♪ she drives hands free... along the coast. make it palm springs. ♪ cadillac is going electric. if you want to be bold, you have to go off-script. experience the all-electric cadillac lyriq.
the events of 60 years ago with key players who are still alive. the film is the work of cnn's ellie honig is joining us right now. i want to show viewers part of this powerful documentary you put together. let's watch. >> i was in my investigation room and when he entered the room, i saw a poor, frighten person shaking and in comparison to aikman and his ss uniform, this man i could not believe it. it was the same person standing in front of me responsible for the death of my parents but when he opened his mouth, i can't forget this. when he opened his mouth, i saw the doors of the crematorium opened. >> they went upon thousands upon thousands of documents piecing
together of the horrific events and building a volume of evidence that they hoped could prove aikman's role beyond a shadow of a doubt. one of the documents was from poland, november 1943, it had a list of numbers of those who arrived. those who were sent to the camps and the crematory. i realized my number was part of that list, i look at that and i said you need not to look elsewhere. the proof is here because i was part of that transport. the number is still on my arm. >> how did theless on soft the trial resonates now? >> no doubt it's an enormous part of our collective history. but, it's also living history.
the two men who i had the honor to interview here were the embodiment of that. one of the prosecutors from the case, 94-year-old, gabriel bach. we are seeing extremism in this country around the globe and we have seen charlottesville and mass shooting in pittsburgh, charleston and atlanta. they stressed to me we can never forget these lessons. this history is very personal. what did it mean to you to speak to these men and women who fought for justice for millions. >> it was a remarkable experience. my grandmother and you see her there with me as a toddler was liberated by the concentration camp and my grandfather as well who i am named after. most of their families were murdered in the holocaust. getting to speak to these men
who stood up for justice, i felt like they stood up for justice for their own families and yours, wolf and millions more. >> thank you so much for doing this documentary. to our viewers, you can watch elie's new document on our website on cnn.com. very, very important. e erin brunette, "outfront" starts right now. "outfront" next. the committee investigating the riot moves to hold steve bannon in criminal contempt. will he be forced to testify? the closely watched race in america for virginia governor. how did vitamin ga go from a solid biden stage to a