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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  October 27, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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the united states. but the pentagon suffer ed a major blow last week when its latest weapons test failed. thank you so much for being with us tonight. i'm kate bolduan. "ac 360" starts right now. good evening. we begin tonight with the apparent confirmation of perhaps the darkest possibility in the fatal shooting of cinematographer halyna hutchins by alec baldwin on the set of the movie "rust." authorities say she was killed and director joel souza was wounded by a bullet. in other words, a live round the one thing that should not be anywhere near a movie set was in the gun's game cher when bald pulled the trigger. >> we believe that we have in our possession the firearm that was fired by mr. baldwin. this is -- this is the firearm we believe discharged the bullet. we also believe that we have the spent shell casing from the bullet that was fired from the gun.
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the actual lead projectile that was fired has been recovered from the shoulder of mr. souza. the projectile was recovered by medical personnel where he was being treated and turned over to the sheriff's office as evidence. we regard this specific spent casing and recovered projectile to be the live round that was fired from the revolver by mr. baldwin. >> an affidavit for a search warrant obtained by cnn affiliate koat contained information that the assistant director who handed baldwin the firearm had yelled cold gun meaning the gun had neither a blank, nor a live round in it. and a search warrant made public today contains a detective's note that the assistant director told investigators he did not check all the rounds loaded in the weapon prior to the lethal shooting. joinling us now, sheriff mendoza and district attorney mary carmack. sheriff, obviously, this is still an ongoing investigation but are you able to tell us how
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a live bullet got into the gun? and how -- how close you and the fbi might be in determining what exactly happened? >> right now, we can't determine exactly how that live bullet got into the firearm. that's going to be the -- the basis for further investigation. we need more interviews and that's going to be the -- the million-dollar question is how a live round ended up in the revolver that mr. baldwin fired. >> and, sheriff, have been people cooperative during the investigation in terms of talking about what they know? >> initially, we got statements from the -- the three individuals -- mr. baldwin, mr. halls, and ms. gutierrez. we would like to get further statements, and most of those individuals are being cooperative. >> um, district attorney, you told cnn today that knowing how live rounds got into the gun that mr. baldwin used will be
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the lynchpin -- your word -- on whether or not to bring charges. do you have a sense tonight on what those charges could be or at least what part of the criminal code might apply? >> no, not at this point. i think it's a little too preliminary to -- to start focusing on what the criminal charges will be because we don't even know who -- who, if anyone, would actually be charged. um, you know, certainly, we have been looking at our -- our criminal code and look -- looking at unintentional killings which in -- in new mexico is called involuntary manslaughter. um, but we don't know that we'll be able to -- to get to that point. we just can't make that determination, yet, until the investigation is complete. >> and -- and, madam district attorney, who on the set -- i mean, is it clear to you at least who on the set of the movie had the ultimate responsibility for the safety of the gun? >> i think that's probably a question more for the investigators, for the sheriff. we -- we don't necessarily know
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that, yet. i think that with the -- with the further interviews that the sheriff indicated they are trying to do, we might be able to come -- get a clearer picture of that. >> sheriff, you mentioned today that there were additional rounds found in the gun that you believe alec baldwin fired. do we know if those were live bullets, as well? or were they blanks? >> right now, indication are are they were dummy rounds. so, they were not similar to the bullet that was fired. they were not similar. the casing was similar but the -- but the primer was not. so, we believe that those were dummy rounds that were in -- that were also in the gun that mr. baldwin fired. >> sheriff, has anyone explained to you at all why there would be a -- a -- a bullet -- a live round on a movie set? >> no one's offered an explanation to that question. again, we are hoping to get follow-up interviews with the three individuals that handled
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the loaded firearm prior to mr. baldwin taking possession of it. so, we are hoping to get further information on exactly why they were there and how they got there. >> so, are -- are -- are they boog being cooperative? i mean, the people who would have direct knowledge of that? can you say? >> right now, we have been getting in contact with mr. baldwin and mrs. gutierrez. mr. hall -- to mr. halls, to my knowledge, has retained legal counsel and will work through his legal counsel to hopefully get a further statement and clarifying statement in reference to what happened. >> and, sheriff, there were some reports that crew members were using live rounds for target practice on the set. can you confirm that? >> we have heard that from different sources through the media, through social media, and other sources that that took
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place. there's no indication that -- that that has happened. we don't have specifics of where that took place and when it took place. and we -- we would encourage anybody with that information to come forward to the sheriff's office. >> were there -- there weren't -- so you are saying there's not other live rounds that you found cartridges of on -- around? >> there -- there are other additional suspected live rounds that we found. that'll be determined when we send those rounds in to the fbi crime lab for analysis. but we believe that they are possibly additional live rounds that were on the -- the set. >> are they -- can you say if they are in the church? >> i won't -- i won't comment specifically where their location was. >> sure. >> but what they were within the specific crime scene that we processed. >> hmm. and, madam district attorney, just from your vantage point, i mean, filming happens often in santa fe on -- on this set. there -- there have been other
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films. i'd imagine there are on-set safety procedures in place. how surprised were you that a tragedy like this could occur? >> well, obviously, we were pretty surprised that a tragedy like this could occur. and certainly that it did occur. there are safety procedures and it -- and -- and protocols that are supposed to be followed by everyone in the industry. and it sounds like -- seems like that that did not happen in this case on multiple levels. >> sheriff mendoza, district attorney carmack, i really appreciate your time. thank you so much. >> thank you. i want to go next to our gary tuchman in los angeles with motion picture armorer larry zanof. larry, i appreciate you guys being with us and, larry, good to see you. >> yeah, larry is a modest guy but he is a renowned motion picture armorer. he's been the chiefs weapons safety officer at scores of movies and television shows over
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the years. we are outside the independent studio services prop house right now north of los angeles. huge place with every prop imaginable for the entertainment industry. first question i want to ask you, the other day we got a chance to shoot with you, to learn more about the guns and the ammunition. but the thing that you told me that really stuck in my mind -- there should never be live rounds on a set in a weapon in an actor's hands, correct? >> that's correct. the industry-wide safety bulletin number one which governs the use of firearms and blank ammunition on set clearly states that no live rounds are ever to be brought onto a studio lot or onto a stage or onto a set. and it's just not done. >> now, the blanks that are typically put in actors' guns, they make noise. they light up. smoke. nothing comes out. but to a layman, when you look at a blank, can look like a live round. you have here a blank and a live round. explain the difference. and what -- what the difference is between them. >> okay. this particular round right here
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is actually a dummy cartridge. but we're going to use it as an example of a live round. >> this is what a live round would look like? >> this is what a live round would look like. and so, you see that we have a cartridge case. typically, that's full of gun powder. there is a primer case or a primer cap at the bottom. and this right here is the projectile or the bullet. that is what would leave the shell casing, and get propelled d downrange in a live cartridge. >> and this? >> this right here is the modern crimped theatrical motion picture blank. and you can see that it's simply a shell casing. there is a primer cap at the bottom. but there's no projectile. it's simply crimped over and shut and it's designed specifically to create the simulation of gunfire. there is an audible bang. there is smoke. there is a bit of a muzzle flash. but there's no projectile flying downrange. >> now, sometimes in a movie, you would use this. but it would be inert. it wouldn't have gun powder, wouldn't have primer.
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you would use it because you sometimes want a tight shot of a bullet being loaded into a gun, right? >> sure. again, this is what we call a dummy cartridge in the industry. we manufacture those here at iss ourselves and we put a bb inside of the shell case. so you can actually rattle it by your ear and hear it and when we would be loading that into a gun onset in front of an actor, we would tell them, hey, we are loading in these rounds so that you can see that the gun's loaded on camera. but each one is a dummy and we would rattle it next to the actor's ear and then with their understanding that it is not a live round, we would go ahead and load it into the firearm once the first ad told us that we were ready to do that. >> assistant director. >> correct. >> so now, we were shooting with you the other day as i said and you emphasized the only two terms that people should be hearing are hot gun and cold gun. what do each of those terms mean? >> so in the motion -- motion-picture industry, we have our own language, if you will. and two of those terms are cold
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gun and hot gun. a cold gun means that the gun is empty. it cannot fire. there might be dummies in it. but it cannot go bang. a hot gun means that it is ready to fire with blanks loaded up into the gun, and those callouts happen just before and after each one of the sequences on set. >> so a hot gun blank isn't necessarily dangerous if it is used right but it's still a hot gun because something can go bang in the gun. >> that is correct. >> my friend anderson has a couple questions for you also. >> larry, even if it is a dummy round as you said, it's -- there is no projectile coming out but it does make, you know, a flash, it does make a loud noise. just so i'm clear, if somebody has a dummy round in and the gun is very close to them, could that potentially injure somebody? >> no, no, let me -- let me be clear. the dummy cartridge is totally inert. it's the blank cartridge that makes the smoke and the muzzle
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flash. >> so, sorry, i used the wrong terminology. if it's the blanch blank cartridge, the smoke and the muzzle flash. i mean, if someone's holding that up to their head or in close proximity, that is something that they would avoid doing? >> sure. in the -- the safety guidelines, it clearly states that minimum safety distance in front of a muzzle of a blank firearm is 20 feet. so, you should never have that situation where a full-flash blank is being pressed up against someone's exposed skin or anything like that. there is, again, a little bit of a flash, a little bit of smoke and stuff coming out so you would not want that in that close proximity and that's why we maintain a minimum 20-foot safety distance. >> it's fascinating to me, the skill you all have in a movie when it looks like somebody is right next to them or right in front of them and they are shooting, is that -- that's done with long lenses? they are 20 feet away? is there something -- is there something else they can do to
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allow them to be close? >> yeah, and thank you for saying that but we are professionals in this industry. and we work very hard at creating those illusions. they are done with either long lenses or what we call blocking the shot. where we're actually off access, we are not pointing a gun directly at someone but we are, like, pointing it six inches off their shoulder so they're not in the direct line of fire. there is, also, the ability to create a physical barrier in -- in our case, we use sheets of a clear material so you can separate the blank fire from another actor. and those are all safety implements that we use depending on the specific scene we're filming. >> yeah. well, gary, larry, i really appreciate it. thanks so much. appreciate it. coming up next, a parade of smat senators line up to accuse the attorney general of writing a memo they say target school parents as domestic terrorists. just one catch and it's a big one and they could have found the truth with just their eyes, assuming that they had actually
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read the mow memo. we ever keeping them honest next. later the chair of the house progressive caucus who can tell us the very latest on the push to pass president biden's agenda because she is one of the key players in it. congresswoman pramila jayapal joins us ahead.
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naenl looking for proof that irony is truly dead, look only to capitol hill and chuck grassley. here he is today confronting attorney general merrick garland. since your confirmation, in less than a year, the department has moved as far left as it can go. you have politicized the department in ways it shouldn't be. case in point. your infamous school board memo. >> so, more on that memo in just a second but spoiler alert as you will see, it's anything but infamous. first, though, the whole irony being dead thing because the chuck grassley you heard talking is the same chuck grassley who -- for each and every attorney general and acting
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attorney general the former president used as his personal political enforcer or fired when they would not go as far as he publicly -- publicly -- said he wanted them to go. it's the same chuck grassley, by the way, who is running for re-election at age 88 and who recently reembraced the former president, shortly after the man put out a statement saying the 2020 election was the real insurrection. and there he is shaking his hand. the same chuck grassley who dished up this word salad when cnn's gary tuchman tracked him down and asked him about it. >> this is your chance to answer that question. do you think the real insurrection what you said was in november? >> i don't think your question's even appropriate from this standpoint. i would -- i was given a chance to speak five minutes at this event. and i took advantage of that to say about what the biden administration's doing on inflation. nothing. what they are doing at the border, nothing. how they left americans in afghan -- nothing. and the -- and the tax and
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spending spree that we have. and i had a chance to -- to say about the last four years how i've worked to get strict construction on the supreme court. how i've worked to get tax cuts and how we have worked in conjunction with ethanol with -- with a president that's very appropriately has said how he and i have worked together to benefit iowans. he said i loved iowans. so i had an opportunity to be before 23,000 iowans and i wouldn't have that opportunity if he hadn't brought that crowd together. >> so, sir, was the real insurrection november? or was the insurrection on january 6th? >> i'll take you back to my -- >> your chance to answer the question. >> yeah. i -- i'm answering it. >> yeah. he -- wehe didn't answer it because he is afraid of losing the support of the former president. if he crosses or contradicts
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him. grassley referred to a statement he made previously after the insurrection which if you look it up, was negative toward the president but he is not willing to actually say that now, to speak those same words because he is afraid. even if it means debasing himself. an 88-year-old man who served this country honorably for decades as a senator is now bowing down and debasing himself to the former president just to stay in office. some other republicans on the panel, including josh hawley, the guy who raised his fist in solidarity with the gathering mob on january 6th spent time with current attorney general merrick garland misrepresenting the facts surrounding the memo you just heard senator grassley mention a minute ago what he called the school board memo. now, before we go into it further, here is what the memo actually said. this is a memo from the attorney general dated october 4th to the fbi director, u.s. attorneys, and the head of department of justice's criminal division. quoting from the subject line, quote, partnership among federal, state, local, tribal, and territorial law enforcement to address threats against school administrators, board
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members, teachers, and staff. goes on to direct the fbi to convene meetings with those officials to discuss strategies for handling the rise in criminal conduct against school personnel. which, if you have been watching the news lately or involved in your community, you know is a real thing. now what has the senators upset is that the memo came several days after the national school boards association, not the fbi, the national school boards association wrote a letter to the president in which it likened some of the threats and actual violence to, quote -- their words -- a form of domestic terrorism and hate crimes. now, that association has since apologized for its choice of words. which drew a very negative response, understandably. and this is key. nothing in the memo by the attorney general garland -- not one single line refers to parents as potential domestic terrorists. in fact, there's no mention of parents or terrorism, at all, in this, none. so with that, listen to tennessee republican marcia
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blackburn how she characterized what garland wrote. >> i just have to ask you, knowing that you really helped bring to justice those that caused the oklahoma city bombing, would you really honestly put parents in the same category as a terry nichols or a timothy mcveigh? >> my god, absolutely not. >> then, why -- why would you ever release a memo -- i mean, did you write that memo? did staff write that memo? what would have led you to do this? it is so over the top. >> he didn't do that. and it isn't. but when garland said correctly that there is nothing in the
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memo like that, senator blackburn replied and i quote, that may be your opinion. actually, it's not. it's actually just what was in the memo. democrat or republican, fan of the administration or not, facts are facts and words are words and there's not a single word, phrase comparison, or insinuation on this page that parents are domestic terrorists. there is just not. only insinuations were coming from senator blackburn or senator cruz got in on it. >> this is a memo to the federal bureau of investigations saying go investigate parents as domestic terrorists. >> then, there was senator john kennedy. >> you don't think there are parents out there in the real world that said oh, my god, maybe we -- we shouldn't go to the school board meeting, there will be fbi agents there? >> and senator josh i raise my fist for insurrectionists hawley. >> it's wrong. it is unprecedented to my knowledge in the history of this country and i call on you to resign. >> senator tom cotton of
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arkansas, also, called on the attorney general to resign. >> this is -- >> that's wrong. >> this is shameful. this testimony, your direct ichbidirective, your performance is shameful. thank god you are not on the supreme court. you should resign in disgrace, judge. >> we should noetd three of those you just heard from are said to be considering a run for president based on their performance today, maybe auditioning would be the better word. joining us now, cnn chief legal analyst, jeefry toobin. jeff, are the comments from senator grassley saying garland has politicized the doj accurate? >> well, no, they are not accurate. and as you pointed out, they are rich with irony since he spent four years defending the incredibly politicized justice department of william barr and jeff sessions. but as you point out, this was theater where famerrick garland was really a prop more than a witness so that some senators -- some republican senators could
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campaign for president. some republican senators, like grassley, could run for re-election. but it all had very little to do with merrick garland. >> what does it say that grassley's suggesting the justice department is politicized when the former president whom grassley is clinging to for re-election tried nine times to get his justice department to undermine the election according to this committee's report? >> well, this is sort of the fantasy world in -- in -- in which we live. but, you know, anderson, it's really important to remember why we are talking about school boards at all. because it's about white supremacy and that's on the rise in the republican party. the reason school boards are controversial is that some school boards have dared to teach that, you know, civil rights and african-american rights have not been so great in this country over the centuries. like, when we had slavery and when we had jim crow. and that has so outraged the --
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the republican party telling the truth about race in america that they feel the way to win elections and to win the governorship in virginia is to demonize these school boards for daring to tell the truth about race in america. and that's really the core of what's going on here. um, and -- and that is a even more chilling in a way than the posturing that went on today in the senate. >> you know, someone who watched today thought attorney general garland should have maybe pushed back harder. are you surprised he didn't? or is that just not in his nature? >> you know, that -- you have to remember that merrick garland had spent, um, the last 20-plus years on the d.c. circuit where the judges treat each other with respect. where they deal -- even when disagreeing with each other -- in the realm of what you might call reality and facts. and he's not used to the -- the give and take in the surreal world of our contemporary politics. i think he -- you know, he -- he
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handled it in a low-key way but he was really irrelevant to what the republicans were trying to do, which was to lie in advance of a white supremacist agenda. >> jeff toobin, appreciate it. thank you. ahead breaking news from capitol hill on the president's domestic agenda. sources saying a key provision is out now as democrats try to get moderate senator joe manchin on board. and now, the president is planning another visit to capitol hill. i will talk with over with the chair of the progressive caucus, next. on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. what do you say we see what this bird can do? woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. looks like we're walking, kid. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ discover card i just got my cashback match is this for real? yup! we match all the cash back new card members earn at the end of their first year automatically woo! i got my mo-ney!
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source says president biden is expected to attend a house democratic caucus meeting on capitol hill tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. delaying his overseas trip to try to get progressives to vote on his infrastructure bill tomorrow. also, sources tell cnn that democrats are now expected to drop paid family and medical leave from the massive social spending bill. that's after objections from moderate senator joe manchin. progressives wanted 12 weeks. that was scaled back to four weeks. now, it seems to be totally out. how that's received has the potential perhaps to create another roadblock. also, senator man dchin is pushg back on reports that he was against the billionaire's tax to fund the measure saying that he is open to basically everyone paying. that's a quote. all of which is to say it's wednesday in washington. democratic congressman and member of the progressive caucus, brendan boyle, summed up the talks to bloomberg earlier this week saying, quote, we are just missing two things. what exactly is going to be in the bill and how we are going to pay for it.
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critical questions. joining me now, democratic congresswoman pramila jayapal, chair of the progressive caucus. great to have you back. what does it say that the president is apparently going to the democratic caucus's meeting tomorrow morning and is it going to have an impact? >> anderson, it's great to be back. i don't know what the president's going to say tomorrow. a ever of course, we always welcome hearing from the president but here's the thing. if there isn't a deal, which is what i am still hearing that we don't have agreement of senator manchin and senator sinema on a framework -- even on a framework, much less on legislate ichb text, then i'm not sure what the president is going to present to us. we have been very clear that this is -- we have been standing up for the 85% of the president's agenda that is in the build back better act. and that the two bills -- the only reason people were willing to vote for the infrastructure bill which has some good things in it. but for many people who care about climate, this see this as a net negative for climate. and so, the way that we were
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able to get people to say that they would vote for a bill that only 12 senators drafted but the house has not had any ability to weigh in is to pair it with the build back better act. and that's why the two have to stay together and we don't have an agreement yet on the framework. so i'm not sure what the president's hoping for but we -- you know, dozens of our members are still in the same place, anderson. >> yeah. so i mean, are -- are paid family and medical leave out of this bill, altogether? >> we -- we really don't know but that's what we are hearing. >> would it be acceptable to you if they were? >> look, i'm a woman who has had a baby and i know what that takes and millions of women across the country are wondering how the president can go to europe, and explain that we are going to be one of six countries that don't have paid family leave because one guy says he doesn't want it? i don't know how you explain that. um, so, look, we haven't drawn red lines but i just think that we need to be really thinking
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about what we are saying about the united states' leadership with this bill. and the best course of action is to keep the -- keep negotiating. we are close but we're not there yet. so, let's finish the negotiations, and then let's vote both the bif and the build back better act out of the house with a commitment from the senate that they are going to do it. >> but you said you are not drawing a red line on the no family leave? >> i mean, we are trying not to draw any red lines just because it's not a good thing to do in negotiations, right? calls from everybody saying how can this be out? >> where do you and your caucus stand on the so-called billionaire's tax and corporate minimum tax? >> well, we were very much in favor of the original set of taxes to roll back the trump tax cuts that were in the house bill. but senator sinema said she didn't like those. so, senator warren, senator wyden, um, i -- you know, we all put together this billionaire's tax. and senator sinema said she was okay with that. then, senator manchin said he didn't like it.
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so, this is what we're dealing with. and this is why we need to have the two of them come to agreement with the rest of us and with the president. we have made tremendous concessions to get them there but now they need to step up and recognize that we all need the build back better act to pass and they need to quickly get their act together. and figure out how we are going to get this thing done. we're close but we're not there. and the two of them have to agree. >> but is -- you don't think manchin and sinema have their act together? >> i'm just saying they haven't agreed yet and they both disagree on different things. so, you know, we have to -- they -- they -- we want to pay for this thing. we want to make the tax system more fair. we have multiple ways to do it. let's just agree on how this thing is going to be paid for. and then, we can get it done. >> it -- i don't know if it matters but is there a sufficient trust between the progressive caucus, i guess the more moderate wing of the married or the manchin/sinema,
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you know, two-person wing, to stick to whatever agreement finally takes shape? >> well, look, that's where i will tell you there's not a lot of trust. i have spoken to senator manchin quite a bit. i believe if he gives his word, i have to take him at his word that he is going to keep his word but he's got to agree, first. and this isn't -- you know, look. that's the problem right now. but i think i have my caucus to agree. you know, anderson, remember, we wanted a senate vote for exactly this reason on build back better first before we voted for the infrastructure bill? i have gotten my caucus to agree that we will accept both bills going forward in the house, together. that was a big concession. basically, what we are saying is we will trust them if they say they are going to do this. and we have an agreement. but we got to get the agreement, first. we've given and given and given and now it's time for them to, also, help us to get this done. >> yeah. congresswoman jayapal, appreciate it. thank you.
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>> thank you the. up next, the virginia governor's race sarting to look like 2020 with president biden taking shots at the former president and possibly trying to goad him into a last-minute trip to the state who if anyone is this back and forth actually happening? more on that ahead. balanced nutrition for strength and energy. whoo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, now introducing ensure complete! with 30 grams of protein. ♪ this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to know you have a wealth plan that covers everything that's important to you. this is what it's like to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. making sure you have the right balance of risk and reward. and helping you plan for future generations. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity.
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♪ i see them bloom for me and you ♪ (music) ♪ so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ with less than a week to go before the election, the virginia governor's race is
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becoming less and less about the actual candidates while stumping for democrat terry mcauliffe last night, president biden mentioned the former president multiple times and was less than su sut linking him to the republican candidate glenn youngkin. >> extremism can come in many forms. can come in the rage of a mob driven -- driven to assault the capitol. it can come in a smile and a fleece vest. either way, the big lie's still a big lie. so, virginia, show up! show up like you did for barack and me. show up like you did for me and kamala. and show up for a proven leader like terry mcauliffe. >> today, the former president released a statement teasing his own visit to the state. quote, chanting we love trump in arlington, virginia, thank you arlington, see you soon.
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later, the former president's communications director confirmed he quote looks forward to being back in virginia, end quote, and details would be released when appropriate. to that, the lincoln project responded quote donald trump is too big of a coward to come to virginia and campaign with glenn youngkin. clearly, the former president is living large in this race but who does it actually help and who does it hurt? harry enten joins. is there argument to be made that he should be campaigning for youngkin in the final days of this race? >> he wants donald trump to take a two-week trip to stral dwraia. here is the situation if you look at the polls right now. look this lead that mcauliffe had. five points in august. three points in september. now, down to a singling point. well within the margin of error. now, compare this to donald trump's popularity in the old dominion. look at this. among lightly likely voters, donald trump's net popularity voting, minus nine points. registered voters, it's minus 18 points so if donald trump comes to the state of virginia, he may
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get some democrat who are staying on the sidelines and get them to say you know what? donald trump's involvement in this case and we are going to get south and vote he wants no part of this. >> but he is popular with his base and certainly turning out those voters could be crucial for youngkin, wouldn't it? >> i mean, it could be. but the fact of the matter is is that he doesn't just motivate republicans to come out and vote, he motivates democrats to come out and vote and what we see in virginia is very moti motivating for your decision to vote. look at that. feelings about donald trump. 5 1% of likely voters in virginia said that, yes, he is very motivating for them to dm o come and vote. compare that to joe biden at just 48%. i have never seen that before. the idea that a former president would be more motivating for voters to come out and vote than the current president. it's bizarre land. and what is truly bizarre is if you look at a slightly different question which is essentially how big a factor is trump in your choice for virginia governor? look at that. 41% of voters say yes, now.
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compared to 2017 when it was 43%. there is no drop off. it's the same. he is still a factor in voters' minds. >> what type of voters -- i think they can hear you in virginia tonight. what kind of voters -- i mean, can youngkin win over some voters that the former president couldn't? and what might that mean nationally for midterms and beyond? >> i don't know if i necessarily need the miecrophone for this. i probably yell enough. but look. it's white voters with a college degree. look at the net favorability ratings among white voters with a college degree. among youngkin versus trump and look at white voters without a college degree. among white-college voters, youngkin is basically even. look at trump at minus 16 points. that is a 16-point difference. youngkin is basically holding the white noncollege base that trump got, look at that just a two-point difference. they are both quite popular among them and the i think the question is what glenn youngkin doing in virginia able to translate nationally? because what we have seen in the trump era is white voters without -- with -- with a
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college degree, excuse me, moving away from the republican party. look at that. in 2012, romney won white college voters by eight points. it was tied in 2016. then, biden won it by eight. republicans want to get those voters back and if glenn youngkin is able to win on tuesday on the strength of white voters with a college degree, it could provide the roadmap for republicans going forward post-trump. >> in that -- i mean, the school issue is something that obviously glenn youngkin has really seized on and to great effect. >> absolutely. absolutely. i mean, it's suburban voters. suburban-white voters who are the ones basically saying i might not have liked donald trump but i will be willing to cast a vote for glenn youngkin because i don't like what these school boards are doing. >> it's a fascinating race, we will continue to follow it. harry enten, i appreciate it. >> i will try and be a little quieter next time. >> no, please don't. >> oh, okay. >> i like it. i like it. >> okay, i'm always boisterous. >> harry, thanks.
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still ahead a wisconsin judge rules the two protestors shot and killed by kyle rittenhouse during a demonstration against police brutality can't be called victims and what the judge may allow, instead. . ♪ que me va a frenar ♪ ♪ si acele.. ♪ ♪ y si acelero no me paran ♪ ♪ el viento pega en mi cara ♪ ♪ si acelero no me paran ♪ ♪ el viento pega en mi cara ♪ ♪ estoy brillando con mi drip drip ♪ ♪ una luz que no se apaga ♪ ♪ ♪ align. fast acting biotic gummies helps soothes occasional abdominal discomfort, gas, and bloating and it works fast. in as little as 7 days try fast acting biotic gummies from align. the #1 doctor recommended probiotic brand. ♪ your new pharmacy is here. to make sure you don't run out of meds here. and with amazon prime, get refills
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a controversial ruling from a wisconsin judge. in a pretrial hearing the judge said the victims of kyle rittenho rittenhouse cannot be referred to as victims. sara sidner has the latest. >> reporter: before the jury is even selected, controversy erupts in the case of double homicide suspect kyle rittenhouse after the judge rules on evidence in his upcoming trial. judge bruce schroeder ruled that
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the three people rittenhouse shot cannot be called victims by prosecutors in front of the jury. but if there is evidence to prove it, rittenhouse's attorneys may refer to the dead and injured men as looters, rioters and arsonists. the judge and prosecutor sparred over it. >> if the evidence shows that any or more than one of these people were engaged in arson, rioting, or looting, then i'm not going to tell the defense they can't call them that. >> i think, your honor, if i were to count the number of times you've admonished me not to call someone a victim during the trial, it would be in the thousands. >> you have made that point. and this is a long-held opinion of mine which very few judges, i guess, share with me, that i think it's a loaded -- the word "victim" as a loaded, loaded word. and i think "alleged victim" is a cousin to it. >> to put it mildly, it's very
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odd. >> reporter: a former law enforcement officer and former prosecutor is floored by the ruling. >> it begs the question of, what else would you call someone who's been shot? they're not bullet recipients. >> reporter: he says judge schroeder's decision is highly unusual and will hurt the prosecutor's case. >> if you're going to use the loaded term, you've got to apply that easily across the board. here there didn't seem to be any real explanation as to why what's good for the goose is not good for the gander. >> reporter: but longtime wisconsin criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor dan adams has a very different take. do you think the judge made the right call here? >> yes, i've been making this motion to stop the government from calling their complaining witness a victim for years. >> reporter: has it ever been granted? >> yes, this motion is granted with some regularity. some judges like judge schroeder
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will grant it as a matter of course. you can't be a victim unless there has been a crime committed. and the decision whether a crime has been committed is the provenance of the jury only. >> reporter: kyle rittenhouse became a household name after this video emerged of the then 17-year-old with a semi-automatic weapon strapped to his chest, walking right past police. moments after he had shot and killed two people and injured another. his attorney says that rittenhouse was in danger and acted in self-defense. prosecutors say rittenhouse shot and killed josephine rosenbaum first. this video shows what happened next. rittenhouse is chased by people trying to catch him. >> i shot someone! >> reporter: he shoots and misses one person. the video appears to show anthony huber hits rittenhouse with a skateboard. huber is shot and killed. three seconds later, a man goes towards the shooter and is shot in the arm.
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[ sound of gunfire ] this is all happening during protests that at times turned volatile and violent after an earlier shooting, the police shooting of jacob blake. rittenhouse said he was in kenosha trying to protect businesses. prosecutors later charged rittenhouse with two felony homicides, felony attempted homicide and possession of a dangerous weapon under the age of 18. rittenhouse has pled not guilty to all charges. the only person who survived being shot told me this before the trial. >> i'm missing 90% of my bicep, i'm in constant, excruciating pain that doesn't go away. >> sara sidner joins us now. what does the judge say people should call the three people shot if not victim? >> he said they should be called decedents. the prosecutor was clearly
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unhappy with that idea, it's not a word we use in general conversation and a word a jury may not have any reaction to. but attorneys say, look, this is all for the defense who is the person that is on trial is kyle rittenhouse and that is who the judge is most concerned with in this particular case. but it has caused quite a bit of controversy, anderson. >> sara sidner, appreciate it, thank you. we'll be right back.
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as we showed you in our reporting on the virginia governor's race earlier, the former president still holds considerable sway over his party. dana bash's report "stop the vote" starts now. >> announcer: the following is a cnn special report. [ yelling ] a deadly insurrection trying to overturn a fair election. >> the 2020 election was the most secure in u.s. history. >> yet donald trump continues to lie. >> this is all about a rigged election. >> why are republicans changing the rules after a record turnout? >> my fellow republicans in legislatures are trying to stop that participation. >> what might it mean fo