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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  November 4, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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going to take it all in. i'm going to try to continue to learn and absorb, but i am definitely going to be a voice for the people. >> sweeney, who spent 11 years in office, said he will not concede until the final votes come in. thanks for joining us. " "ac 360" starts right now. two days after a punishing election made even more punishing perhaps by democratic perceived dysfunction, party voters appear close to a vote, first on the build back better spending bill and tomorrow on bit partisan infrastructure bill. that said, house speaker pelosi wanted at least the first part done by now, but it is still in flux. she's famous of not bringing votes to the floor without the
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votes. the holdouts are mainly r moderates. this time the progressives. it's an especially busy night tonight on both ends of pennsylvania avenue. we expect it to be a long one as we bring you the details in the hours ahead. and as far as what moderate democrats decide what to do, i spoke to congressman gottheimer just before air time. >> congressman gottheimer, i appreciate you being here. is there going to be a vote tonight? >> we'll see. we're closer to the bipartisan package which we've been working on for months, and then the social infrastructure bill, or build back better, which there are final details going back and forth. we are expecting final text now and we hope to get there. that's everything from child
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care or s.a.l.t. to universal p pre-k. both bills would be great for the country and we're close. >> i know you want to see some things go into the spending bill, but speaker pelosi feels it's ready to go to a vote now. without seeing those numbers, would you move forward? >> i think it's very important and something i believe deeply that i should read the bills, and i don't take the vote on anything to make sure you see the text and understand the impact on your district. we don't have the final text yet. i've seen a lot of it and so much is good for the district, but we need to see the final text. we have some issues with the revenues that we're still waiting for answers.
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we got some information from the joint tax office and we're waiting for numbers and analysis on some of the investments. >> so without seeing the numbers, you would not move forward? >> i think until we get some of that information it would be irresponsible until we get the final text and until we see the impact on our economy and country. we're supposed to get some of those numbers any minute now, waiting on those, and i think if we can get that analysis, that will be very helpful moving forward. >> do you worry -- republicans are sitting back right now looking at all this and saying, look, democrats can't even pass their agenda while they control both chambers of congress in the white house? is this a gift to the gop? >> listen, i'll admit i've been very frustrated with the fact that -- i worked with my colleagues, democrats and republicans in the house and senate, for most of the summer going back last spring on the bipartisan infrastructure
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package, road, bridges, the tunnel in new jersey, helping us fight climate change, 200 million jobs on the line. that has been sitting in the house waiting for action. i think we have to act. i think the country has spoken pretty clearly they expect us to act. we're going to get that bill done, i'm hoping any hour now, and get this infrastructure package, the social package across the line as well. i think it's very important we do our jobs and make sure we see final text and do the analysis to see the impact on our district and our economy and our country, and i believe, anderson, in the coming days we're going to have two big victories for the country, and that's going to not just help the country but, of course, i think change some of the messaging for democrats. >> on the messaging front, if progressive democrats and moderate democrats, you know, can't really trust each other to vote on two things separately at
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different times, i guess there is some of the country that might ask why should the country trust democrats. >> i don't think it's a question of not trusting each other at all. i think it's -- you know, would i have liked to vote on the infrastructure package months ago? yes. but i believe we'll all work this out, we've been working closely together, and everybody has been acting in goold faith and we'll get these across the finish line. but i think the country wants to see action. they deserve it. they want us to produce common sense results for them and for families, and they expect not just democrats to work together, they expect us to work with republicans. they want bipartisan solutions. so i think that's why the infrastructure package we're presenting is so important, because it's great for families in the country for our competitiveness, but also a strong sign that democrats and republicans can work together for them. >> congressman gottheimer, i really appreciate it. thank you. >> thanks for having me.
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>> some perspective now from former democratic congressman, also with us senior anchor dana bash. dana, what do you make after such a poor showing at the ballot box this week, democrats still have not been able to pass the president's agenda? >> well, it seems to me that in part it is the poor showing. what you're seeing right now is the moderates, those who have the most to lose politically because they have the potential of losing, many of them, josh gottheimer is one. we heard from abigail spanberger who is in virginia and others who won in -- most of them in 2018 and they made the democratic majority, but they won because they're in conservative districts, and now they're facing a situation where they're looking at passing this large social safety net bill, and most of them say they support a lot of it, but there's
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some of it in there that i'm told many of them believe could be politically really, really dangerous for them. immigration is one example. not a lot of people have talked about it, but in here some of the moderates believe what that would effectively do is allow -- not that they believe, this is actually in there -- that would allow undocumented immigrants to stay for a decade and able to work. that is going to be used as a cudgel to democrats by republicans on an issue they know they're very vulnerable on. >> is there a senior moment here? >> i'm surprised that so many people are surprised this is tough to do. anderson, this is what happens when you bring a blend of the great society and the new deal and the apollo project with respect to climate technologies and try to balance it on a 3-vote majority in the house and a 1-vote majority in the senate. are they missing the moment?
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the one glimmer of hope for my former colleagues is whether you are a progressive or a moderate, you understand that if you don't pass both of these bills, the midterm is over. you're back in the minority. as dana knows, i've been in the minority. it's not fun. so there is pressure on both sides to get these two bills passed in one form or another and try to have a fighting chance in what is going to be a very difficult midterm environment. >> dana, even now, though, if these do, in fact, pass, all the bipartisanship of getting the first one voted on initially, has that just kind of gone out the window? the benefit of having a bipartisan bill was that you show you can work across the aisle. it's been so long since that was done, does this now all just get lost in the mix? >> yes, and it has been for some time. when you look at sort of the
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messaging, the political messaging that, see, this is a president that said he could bring two sides together. he did, and nobody can take that away from him. the sort of reality is that what you're going to see is when the bipartisan infrastructure bill gets passed in the house after it passed by huge bipartisan majority in the senate, you're going to see the republicans go home who voted for it, and even some who didn't, claim credit for all of the jobs and the projects that they're bringing back home. so there is a lot of benefit for republicans politically. totally, and they're going to continue to do that and try to whack it at the democrats. but i just think it is so fascinating that for so long, anderson, we were talking about the progressives using their leverage. now we're seeing the moderates at the last minute use their leverage to deal with things like the taxes that josh
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gottheimer was talking about, the state and local deductions, prescription drug benefits and being able to negotiate drug prices, and of course, immigration ask nd just the ovel cost. >> you were part of the democratic committee after the house lost 60 votes. david axelrod said last night that he saw those losses coming a long way away because of the economic situation. do you think your party is in store for a similar shellacking? >> yes, unless we can get our act together. what happened in 2021 is eerily reminiscent of what happened in 2009. we lost new jersey, we lost in many parts of the country. we knew we were in trouble in august of 2009. it wasn't until august of 2010 that we realized, this isn't
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just uphill, this could be really bad. when we lost three seats in november, i don't believe anybody can really forecast the loss of 63 seats we suffered. this is shaping up. the trends, the climate are very similar. it's like watching a hurricane and tracking it and understanding where it's going to last. the potentially good news is that democrats can remember how bad it can get, and they understand they need a course correction. if they can get that course correction, pass these bills, produce tangible results for voters, regain faith amongst suburban voters, then they have a fighting chance to survive this but will be a very tough midterm. >> steven, dana bash, appreciate it. go ahead, dana. >> they do see the reality coming in november next year which is why there is a race to get this done as soon as
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possible. >> dana, jeff i seesrael, thank. a report that the president is facing another new york grand jury. what they're said to be examining next. ♪ i had a dream that someday ♪ ♪ i would just fly, fly away ♪
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but as long as it's music to theirs. bring the volume back to the venue with exclusive ticket access to unmissable events. one of the many reasons you're with amex platinum. the president wanted to run the justice department to advance a scheme to overturn the election. he's finally ready to be interviewed tomorrow by the house select insurrection committee. jeffrey clark is his name. is h he was subpoenaed by the committee before refusing to testify. there are 20 more subpoenas that
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could go out tomorrow. a federal judge said there were documents to keep away from the committee. hundreds of pages of records, especially if they're material, to a congressional investigation. in addition, she threw coal water on the request that each throw cold water on it which she said could take years. joining us now, senior political analyst carl bernstein and bob woodward. he also famously wrote with carl, "all the president's men in his final days." if the judge does grant all the documents about the former president, how damning do you think it could be for his and his allies? >> that may happen, but it will, of course, be appealed, and i
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think if you look at the nixon tapes case going back to 1974, the ruling was that a prosecutor can get, in the case of nixon, his tapes, but the senate watergate committee could not. i'm not sure the january 6 commission has really got a strong hand. but this is very important if you digest the mechanics of an investigation like this. liz cheney said if you talk to 150 people, you can get a name, you can get a list. i doubt if there is anything in these documents that is going to be the smoking gun, but they have to find a witness, a participant who will cooperate or some sort of secret taping system, so there's a great deal of work to be done here.
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>> carl, what do you make of how it's going so far? >> i think that the committee sat a great disadvantage because there is a cover-up going on, and the cover-up is the most grievous undermining of this country done by the president of the united states since the civil war. and the republican party is now complicit in the cover-up because it does not want to see this investigation go forward. in water gate,gate, you had a situation where the senate voted unanimously to investigate on a bipartisan basis what had happened in our electoral system. we have the opposite happening now in the republican party, including the leadership, mcconnell, kevin mccarthy doing everything in their power to see that these facts do not come to light. we have a republican party which is a party of voter suppression, which is trying to ensure that
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democrats are not having their votes counted fairly. and it's very interesting, we just had an election, we watched donald trump cry foul about the election when, in fact, we know it was the big lie. last night we had an election in virginia where the republican candidate for governor won. and lo and behold, we didn't hear any cries of foul in this election. and i think we got to look at this larger question of a cover-up and manipulation of our voting system to the disadvantage of democracy and a coup occurred here by the president of the united states. >> bob, you mentioned those 20 subpoenas by bennie thompson. he didn't say who they were for, he just said they had valuable information. who would it be for? >> you have to do a dragnet.
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doing our book "peril," we found the eastman memo which is really blueprint for a coup in a very clear way, and we found that just by calling people. in fact, we got that from sources who were trump supporters who were willing to provide it. it wasn't classified, it wasn't secret, but carl is right. there is a cover-up going on here. the question is, when you get into the courts that the president, the former president, does have some rights here. unfortunately, there is a right to conceal information. it certainly is wrong in this committee, and what i worry about is do we really have a
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mechanism in this committee or in the justice department to get to the bottom and explain what happened? this is where carl -- you really have to do that. this was what h-- what happened january 6 was a monumental event. it was unparalleled and there are all kinds of avenues to pursue, and quite frankly, i think there is a giant responsibility again on the media to do the reporting, get these documents, get the witnesses, find out precisely what happened. it's senator irvin who led the senate watergate committee used to tell carl and myself, we want to call everyone up here to get their story and we are going to give them an opportunity to
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exonerate themselves. and i think that can apply here. everyone should testify. i think there is not just a constitutional, i think there is a moral and a cultural responsibility to explain this and not let it drift off into the fog of history. >> carl, as bob was saying, does congress have the abilities, the tools, to actually get people to be able to exonerate themselves? i mean, how likely is it that the former president and his allies, steve bannon, for example, he's already been found in contempt. will he be able to successfully stonewall or slow down the election so they can win back both chambers? >> that's the question.
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the clock ticking in the midterms would seem to indicate that what we've seen so far is republicans will probably capture the house and close this thing down. but let's look at the bigger picture for a moment. including what bob just said about the press, but it's not just the press. the business of this nation needs to be above almost everything else. we are in a civil war in this country. and the successionists are winning the civil war right now. the republican party of donald trump is winning this civil war. it's winning this battle. and it needs to be the business of the nation to find out what happened in this most authorita authoritarian grievous interruption in our country.
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it must be found with every stone turned up what happened here. we cannot let this lie. as for the press, it needs to be the unflagging top of our agenda until we find out and find these witnesses. bob has started the pros in his book with bob costa in "peril." there are other witnesses. this is what we need to be doing and the successionists are planning on us dropping this fight. this is our job above all else. >> carl bernstein, bob woodward, i appreciate it. thank you both. more breaking news. what we're learning about a second grand jury and panel to investigate the former president's company. we'll talk to jeffrey toobin when we return. are you gonna leaf me hanging? soothe your cough naturally. you get more with aarp medicare advantage plans from unitedhealthcare. like $0 copays on tier 1 and tier 2 prescription drugs.
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it's not just rough going in federal court for the former president. according to the "washington post" he is now facing a second grand jury head bid cy advance. jonathan mcconnell shares a byline on this now. what is your suggestion at how significant this grand jury might be? >> well, it's hard to know. what we know is the new grand jury will be looking at the way trump and his company sort of evaluate their properties. we know from some of the previous reporting and some court filings that the new york ag letitia james and also cy
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vance have looked at how trump presents his stuff to banks versus how he presents them to appraisers. most when they go to a bank, they're boasting about their property. when they go to the appraisers, they don't want to be charged too much. they're sort of humble about how much it could be worth. the question is whether trump did this in a legal way or whether he just did it in a way that others always do it. >> are these new areas of potential exposure? there's been reporting on this before about him kind of speaking out both sides of his mouth to different people, or is this just a continuation of what the d.a.'s office has been doing for some time now? >> well, you'll recall the grand jury that is expiring right now, they charnld trump cfo allen weisselberg and the company with a different type of fraud.
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they would comment employees with apartments or homes or cars or school tuition in a way that would avoid taxes. and the cfo allen weisselberg pled guilty and so did the company. this is a different kind of category of allegations. it's saying that the company knowingly misled tax appraisers or misled banks for insurers that were providing the company with either loans or insurance policies in a way that would violate law. >> we should also point out the former president has not been charged. has the trump organization responded? >> they did not respond today, at that time eric trump, the president's son, and president trump have both called these investigations really politically motivated. they sometimes point to letitia james who is now running for governor and some comments she made running for a.g. where she said she would come after trump before she was even attorney general. so they view these as
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politically motivated investigations. >> jonathan, appreciate it. thank you. joining us now, analyst jeffrey toobin. how concerned should the former president be? >> it is important because the existing case, the weisselberg case, is really a small potatoes case. it is very bad news for weisselberg personally, but the amounts of money it issued, the kinds of crime, paying for a car and not paying taxes on it, paying for tuition at his grandchildren's school, not paying taxes on it. it is a criminal case but it is certainly not one that really implicates the former president in any way that's apparent from the face of the indictment. the investigation of the double booking, as you were talking about, you know, giving one valuation to tax authorities, one valuation to banks, that's a potentially much more serious
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case, also one that potentially implicates the former president. so it's a big deal, but we should, of course, say just because there is an investigation doesn't mean there are going to be any charges coming out of it. >> also just how tough an investigation might it be? as long as allen weisselberg isn't cooperating with prosecutors, there's no public indication that he is, who else would know what he knows, or is this all public -- i mean, is this kind of a document investigation they can get access to because it involves banks and taxes? >> you're right that it's very hard to make a white collar case without someone cooperating from the inside. however, there is at least the possibility. obviously i haven't seen the documents and so i don't know what they say and how different they are. but if you start with the identical property, evaluating one's for taxes, one's for banks, that's potentially a big
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problem, something that could be the basis for a criminal case. but if you want to charge someone with intentional misconduct with an intentional crime which is how most crimes are defined, you really have to have someone on the inside who says, you know, we knew we were lying to the tax authorities, we knew we were lying to the banks, but we did it, anyway. that's why weisselberg is such an important potential witness, but he's not a witness yet, all he is is a defendant and he's not guilty, either, at least so far. >> jeffrey toobin, appreciate it. powerful testimony in the kyle rittenhouse trial. why the judge kicked one juror off the case.
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during an emergency. the juror in the kyle rittenhouse trial was ejected by telling a joke about the shooting of jacob blake. he has pleaded guilty to all charges. jimenez reports tonight about a charged day of testimony. >> reporter: a third day of testimony in the trial of kyle rittenhouse focused on how the shooting began the night of august 25, 2020, starting with the killing of joseph rosenbaum, one of two killed by rittenhouse
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that night. mcguinness, from "the daily caller" was the fifth witness called in the trial, who emphasized rosenbaum was unarmed. >> did you ever see a weapon on mr. rosenbaum? >> i did not. >> didn't see him have a knife? >> no. he took jurors to the night of the shooting. >> i noticed he was trying to advance and mr. rittenhouse was standing still based on the way rosenbaum was running and lung slunged into the weapon, and i didn't want to be on the other end of
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that. >> he even spoke to rittenhouse before shots were fired. not long after, he was forced to render emergency aid. >> i was under his right shoulder. there was another individual under his left shoulder, and then there were maybe one or two people carrying his legs, and i was just telling him that we're going to have a beer together afterwards and it was all going to be okay. it seemed that his eye was looking at me, but it was kind of rolling back, and then when i started talking, it rolled back kind of towards me, and i was looking at him, so i'm not sure if he heard me, but i think perhaps he did. >> did he say anything? >> no. >> reporter: during cross-examination, the defense focused on why rosenbaum's pursuit of rittenhouse continued. >> he could have stopped any time he saw an armed individual, correct? >> i suppose he could.
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>> he kept advancing? >> correct. >> he continues to advance until he makes a lunge for the weapon, right? >> yes. it appeared he was lunging toward the front of the weapon. >> reporter: trying to paint the picture that rosenbaum was the aggressor as he lunged and rittenhouse was defending himself. >> you know, as you sit here today, that you yelled the words "f you" but the whole words, correct? >> yes. >> what was the tone of his voice as he yelled that? >> very angry. >> reporter: roizead rosenbaum' attorney focused on the other witness. >> did he say that to the defendant as well? >> the defendant was there, so yes. >> reporter: ryan walsh who was with rittenhouse that night laid it out.
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>> did you ever see mr. rosenbaum physically hurt anyone that night? >> no. >> you had your glock pistol, right? >> yes. >> did he ever reach for that? >> no. >> did he ever touch you? >> no. >> the first witness mentioned in your piece, at one point he testified that rosenbaum was advancing toward kyle rittenhouse while rittenhouse was standing still. do you have any idea why the prosecution called this witness? >> when you go back to the prosecutor, one of the questions he said that's going to be central here was, was this level of force necessary to produce bodily harm. he said rosenbaum was not armed and there was no way to know his
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mentality at the time. there were hundreds of people on the street and everyone was going through the same stress, chaos, and having the same verbal altercations, but only one person shot someone that night, being rittenhouse. of course, the jury will go into their own arguments of why they believe this was self-defense. coming up, the covid pandemic shouldn't be measured in life or death. we have a long report by dr. sanjay gupta on what the virus can do to our bodies.
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it's also about damaging the body and the brain, and for some survivors that damage can be profound. here's chief medical
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correspondent dr. sanjay gupta. >> social media is full of this information to address your agenda. the algorithms and just what you want to hear. >> like tens of millions americans, 71-year-old jim sell saw misinformation on social media as well as facebook. as a result, the former pilot and marathon runner decided not to get vaccinate. >> they constantly repeat the high survival rate. out of 100 people that covid affects, the vast majority can stay open and take an aspirin. >> what do you think the survival rate is? >> what they post is 98.5 to 99. >> that means 100 people die. arn around the country, nearly 4 million people will die. and some say 97% are good. what's the big deal? >> covid isn't just about life and death.
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it's also about damage, damage to the body. >> i tested positive for covid. two days later i was talking to a friend and really exhausted, and she recommended that i go to the hospital and get a breathing treatment. so lisa drove me to the hospital. they wouldn't let her in. >> i didn't get any sleep that night worrying about him. i did a lot of praying. any time you tried to call the hospital to the emergency room, you would ask where he is. he's in the er and they're working on him. so i wouldn't have any information. >> after about ten days he had fairly typical symptoms for covid pneumonia. he had a cough and shortness of breath. he immediately >> reporter: this man is a doctor. by his own account, he has seen hundreds of covid-19 patients throughout the pandemic, like
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jim. >> to avoid undue stress on his heart, on his brain, on other vital organs on a cellular level, it took five times more oxygen to get him to where it was safe. >> they put an oxygen mask on, down real tight. started putting the heart monitor on me. then asked me if i wanted to be resuscitated. i'm in shock. she said, i don't know if we can help you. we're going to do all we can. >> reporter: did they spend time telling you what this virus was doing to your body or explaining what exactly was happening? >> they showed me the chest x-ray. the pull momonary doctor said i supposed to look like two black panels. ike looking at two white sheets. >> the very top of his lungs. you can see affects of covid pneumonia on his left lung here.
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as we move down to the middle and lower lobes, the right lung, you see diffuse and involvement of covid pneumonia. >> reporter: wheninfected, it cr flan inflammation. it can scar the tissue and stiffen the lungs. >> it's the lack of oxygen and its toll on the rest of your organs. >> reporter: 15% of all hospitalized covid patients experience some sort of kidney damage. many of them needing dialysis. like jim, 43-year-old travis campbell wasn't vaccinated. the noise of social media was overwhelming. in the rural part of virginia where he lived, covid just didn't seem urgent. after three days of being extremely fatigue and having difficulty breathing, travis was admitted to the hospital. >> you are in a fog.
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nothing makes sense. >> reporter: travis' wife and two of his kids had become sick with covid. while they got better at home, he got worse. keeping his family and friends updated on facebook. >> covid starts doing blood clotting. and with the pneumonia, start clotting, too. they've been fighting that. it's tough when your oxygen drops. because you can't breathe. so you start having panic attacks. >> reporter: one analysis of several studies found between 20% to 30% of all critically ill patients will develop blood
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clots, like travis did. potentially causing heart attacks and strokes. some experts argue that covid is probably more of a vascular disease than a respiratory one, because of its impact on the blood vessels that line so many of our organs. things became so serious that travis wrestled with his own mortality. >> last night i come to the realization that the chances of me not being able to give my daughter away at her wedding is greater than walking out. >> reporter: jim was hospitalized for 16 days and nearly 11 weeks later, he still is trying to regain his strength. >> i'm moving along. i'm 40% now after two months. what i lack is duration, stamina. i don't do anything strenuous, because that will send my oxygen way too low right away. i don't want anybody to go through what i went through.
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we really need the world to know the truth and consequences of not being vaccinated. >> reporter: you are talking about this. is this going to affect your social interactions with people? are you going to lose friends? >> i have. >> reporter: you almost die and you are losing friends over this? >> yeah. >> reporter: travis has left the hospital. like nearly 1 there 20 unvaccinated people diagnosed with covid-19, he is still experiencing many of the symptoms, at least two months after his diagnosis. >> the real confusion, it's every day. very forgetful, headaches, still on oxygen, struggling to breathe. it's been one thing after another. >> reporter: unlike before he went into the hospital, he is part of the at least 80% of american adults who have gotten at least one shot. >> that shot could have prevented all of this. four weeks in icu, stop at your
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local pharmacy, vaccine is free. nothing political about it. check in, get it done. >> sanjay joins us. travis received his first dose. has jim? >> not yet. he will get it monday. we checked in with him. it's been a contentious topic where he lives. people won't talk to him just because he has come on and talked about the fact he will get vaccinated. he will do it and get his booster when his time is do. >> 70 no0 thousand new cases. how is the medical industry going to have to adapt. >> there may be wings dedicated to long covid, maybe hospitals to this. we are talking potentially millions of people dealing with this. there's a study that came saying there's 1.3 million people who are out of work right now due to covid. the numbers keep growing. it's a problem. >> appreciate it. we will be right back. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression.
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a busy night. let's go to chris. >> thank you. i am chris cuomo. welcome to "primetime." learn or lose. that's the proposition for democrats. question. why would speaker pelosi tell her caucus earlier she wanted votes on the build back better bill tonight and infrastructure tomorrow? why won't they learn the lesson? don't promise what you can't deliver. so far tonight, no votes scheduled as of this program. it may be worse if they do vote on build back better, because they know the senate is not ready to pass it because of their own party. the speaker chose to put four weeks of paid family and medical leave back in the $1.75 trillion plan after scrapping it to get senator manchin on board. he is still locked in the same position he has en