tv New Day With John Berman and Brianna Keilar CNN November 5, 2021 2:59am-4:00am PDT
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♪ good morning to viewers here in the united states and around the world. it is friday, november 5th, and i am brianna keilar along with john berman. it is decision day for democrats on capitol hill or it could be. it is supposed to be. will this finally be the day the party can get enough votes for the president's build back better plan and the infrastructure bill. house democrats will reconvene on the floor to debate and vote on both pieces of legislation. in the past, they have failed to meet these self-imposed deadlines to get the president's domestic agenda across the line in the house.
but after weeks and months of infighting between moderates and progressives, democratic leadership in the house feel confident this is going to get done today. >> they at least say they are confident. they probably want to get off the hamster wheel they've been on. let's find out where they stand. sunlen serfaty live on capitol hill. is this really the day, sunlen? >> reporter: that certainly is the big question up here, john. it is a very, very tense moment with a lot riding on today. we have democratic leaders who are projecting confidence going into today, saying there will be a vote on these two bills. but notably, the reality of the moment is there are still many outstanding issues. the social spending bill is not finalized. they still have to line up the votes. it was a chaotic meeting last
night, pushing leaders to have to delay the plan vote last night into today. but they were able to make some agreement. most notably on the state and local tax deductions. they have agreement on that. they will cap it at $80,000. there are some issues outstanding, immigration bill. and key moderates will not vote unless they have a cbo score. cnn heard from one of the moderates last night. >> well, i think until we get some of that information it would be irresponsible until we get the final text before we see the impact on the economy and our country. but, again, we're supposed to get some of those numbers any minute now. we're waiting on those. i think if we can get that analysis, that will be very helpful in moving forward. . >> and the house will be convening earlier than normal today in about two hours at 8:00 a.m. eastern.
when and if the infrastructure bill gets passed through the house today, potentially it would be sent to president biden's desk for his signature. of course the social spending bill will be sent over to the senate where we are all expecting big, big changes to be made over there. so still a lot remains on this legislative agenda. >> the infrastructure bill will become law today perhaps. as for the social spending, just the beginning. thank you so much, sunlen. >> reporter: thanks. let's talk with matt cartwright of pennsylvania. he won last fall in a district carried by then president donald trump. okay. did you get a call last night from the white house, from the president? . >> no, not from the white house or the president. i got calls from a lot of members wondering where we're at. i'm part of democratic house leadership. by the way, brianna, i'll thank john to refrain from referring to the united states house of representatives as a hamster wheel. . >> but in fairness.
>> but in fairness, there's been a lot of process going on. you know, everybody is interested in what happened today and what did this one say and what did that one say. in the end -- and, yes, we have a slim majority in the house. on some level, that he wants a really good thing. because you know what that means? everyone's voice is heard. people don't get run over. three people could stop the bill. so they have to be listened to. . >> it is not that no one gets run over. it is that everyone gets run over. but, look, this appears to be a big tay. you believe there is going to be the votes to pass this today. >> right. let me tell you, we're on the cusp of doing something amazing and transformative for america with these bills. we have the bipartisan infrastructure bill which does so much. $66 billion for increasing rail travel in this country.
the roads, the bridges, the water systems, the sewer systems that haven't been in vested in in the time i've been in congress, nine years. and much longer. we heard about infrastructure week after infrastructure week in the last administration. democrats are delivering now. we're not just delivering the hard infrastructure, we're delivering broadband internet for every place in america. it is like the rural electrification act from 80 years ago. we're going the get this done. and the build back better act is amazing. it just got scored by moody's analytics. it will create 1.5 million jobs every year for the next 10 years. that's 15 million jobs in 10 years. it will cut the deficit by about $60 billion by the end of 10 years. by the end of 20 years, it will cut the deficit by $2 trillion. this is something americans want.
it's going to deliver wonderful things for our country. . >> has it been scored by the cbo yet which is an issue for the democrats? . >> we have a score from the joint committee on taxation. it's going to be not only revenue neutral, but it's going to reduce the deficit. . >> can i ask you, there will be in cbo before the vote? . >> i think the senate needs it before their vote. the bbb has not gone to the senate. we're going to have a very good handle on what they think, too. but it's going to be good news. because that we're seeing from the jct, joint committee on taxation, which is nonpartisan, says this is going to reduce the deficit over 10 years in the times of $62 billion and into the trillions in the second decade. . >> have you been able to read the whole bill?
. >> i've read the parts that are problematic. my staff, they all have to change their eyeglass prescriptions now. they have been poring over this bill constantly. any time something comes up they want me to look at the actual text, that's what i look at. >> what's the difference between last night and this morning? . >> work. working, talking, and a lot of listening. and i have to say democratic house leadership, i have never seen them working so hard. and you know why they're doing it? because they realize, certainly after tuesday night -- don't think that wasn't a wakeup call. americans want democrats to deliver, and we are ready to stand and give. . >> so let me ask you about some of the things in this bill. this s.a.l.t., the state and local tax deduction, up from 10,000 to 80,000 dollars in the house bill. it may not obviously be the final bill. why is that okay, a tax break for arguably wealthy people,
when you have seen things cut like medicare expansion. >> you can see parts of the country where s.a.l.t. makes a difference. on the coast, everybody's real estate costs more. they have to get a larger larger for a middle-class family to live. this is the restoration of the traditional deduction of state and local taxation. it doesn't blow the cap off completely. but these are things that people living on the coast, even people living in relatively modest homes -- >> 80 grand? >> -- have been screaming for. that's the cap. >> that's high. >> that is high for scranton. >> finally real quick, before i let you go, immigration. there has been a fight to get work permits for some immigrants and protection from deportation.
do you have buy-in from enough democrats on that? . >> i think we do. these are people attributing to the economy. i mean, we've been looking at this for years. it's pretty obvious, if we go out and deport 11 million souls who are contributing to our economy, economists have shown you are talking about the loss of 4 to 5 million jobs of american citizens because of the hit that our economy would take. i see this as just a reflection of what the economic realities are. . >> and the time of the vote, what do you think? . >> you're taxing me now, brianna? >> would you say before noon. >> i think we will get one done before noon and the other one shortly after. >> thank you. >> great to be with you. up next, cnn exclusive. rudy giuliani and other trump allies challenged under oath about their debunked election lies.
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toobin. the basis of this lawsuit, that does it say? . >> osha, which is the part of the deposit that is establishing these requirements, is issuing an emergency regulation. and under that emergency rule, they can impose a requirement if there is a grave danger to workers. that's the standard. and the question in these lawsuits is, is there a grave danger discussing this action by osha? frankly, based on what i understand of the law, i think it's not entirely clear. i think these lawsuits are not obvious in how they will come out. there may be different results in different parts of the country. i wouldn't be surprised to see this end up before the supreme court before long. >> and they have all held up, but this is different. >> it is different because it is the federal government and the federal government has smaller
jurisdiction and states have broader jurisdiction and clearer right to impose these sorts of requirements. the federal government is more limited. we'll see if this holds up. >> all right. i want to play sound that cnn explained exclusively. rudy giuliani, the former mayor of new york city, the former president's lawyer, deposed in a defamation case in anyone onvoting systems and other voting systems. i want to play the former mayor here. let's see it. >> we had a report that the heads of andominion and smartmatic, somewhere in the teens, 20, 13, 14, after, went down to venezuela so they could demonstrate to maduro the kind of vote fixing they did for -- for chavez. >> you said the heads of
dominion and smartmatic. . >> yes. that's what i was told. before the press conference, i was told about it. sometimes i go and look myself when stuff comes up. this time i didn't have the time to do it. it's not my job in a fast-moving case to go out and investigate every piece of evidence that's given to me. otherwise, you're never going to write a story and you're never going to come to a conclusion. >> so we have known some of that content had been reported before but we hadn't seen anything before. he repeated things at a press conference but never bothered to check at all. >> in order to win a libel, the plaintiffs have to show reckless disregard of for the truth. that looks like the definition for reckless disregard for the truth. the idea that you will go out and damage the reputation of a
company for any concern with whether what you're saying is true, seems to be clearly libelous. and i think giuliani will be on the hook for millions of dollars. the libel is supposed to address harm to reputation. these company's reputations were horribly damaged by these total falsehoods that he put out there with reckless disregard for the truth. i think these will be disastrous for him. and they may well be disastrous for the media out looks like fox news that put it on critically. >> what did you make of his demeanor and does it matter in this case? >> if it goes to a jury, it could mean a great deal. jurors look at how they look and feel and sound. and him failing to recognize the
seriousness of what he was doing and the impact of what he was doing and his complete lack of interest and lack of curiosity and lack of work in determining whether what he was saying was true, other than with something someone told him, it's just outrageous. . >> he just said out loud i didn't go check the facts at all. in at all. at all. >> all right. jeffrey toobin, thanks for being with us. >> all right. the trial of three men charged with killing ahmaud arbery. with a nearly all white jury. a juror tried to be funny when talking about the trial of the killing of jacob blake. the judge wasn't having it. what happened next.
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in just hours, opening statements will begin in the trial of the men accused of killing ahmaud arbery. race is a central factor in the case. and the nation's attention is on the nearly all-height jury. amara walker live in brunswick, georgia. what are we expecting today? >> reporter: hey, john. well, on thursday, the state and defense spent much of the day arguing what evidence should or should not be admissible when the trial begins this morning. a graphic body cam video worn by the responding officers shows ahmaud arbery, gravely wounded after he was shot three times as prosecutors say, by a shotgun. the jury selection process has been extraordinarily long. it finally ended this week.
and in the end, it will be a nearly all-white jury that decides the fate of three white men accused of killing a black man. >> there's so much wrong with what happened in this trial. it has been racialized from the beginning. that was done purposefully by the defense. >> reporter: outside the courthouse, outrage and disappointment. >> we want people to understand that in this moment that there has to be some serious work done in our country. >> reporter: while more than a quarter of the residents in glen county where the trial is taking place are black, a nearly all white jury, 11 white members and one black member, will hear opening statements in the trial of three men accused of murdering ahmaud arbery. on wednesday, the prosecution accused the defense office striking qualified black jurors based on race. while the judge seemed to side
with the prosecution. . >> this court has found there appears to be intentional discri discrimination. >> reporter: he ultimately ruled that the case could move forward. . >> they have been able to explain why, separate from race, those individuals were in fact, struck from the panel. >> reporter: on thursday, the prosecution and the defense worked on ironing out some pretrial motions. one of them whether a vanity license plate on travis mcmichaels' truck should be excluded. it is an old georgia state flag that prominently features a confederate flag. >> we would ask that the court limit the playing of any photograph or video of the front plate. because it's inflammatory and because it injects into this case something that we all have been trying to avoid and trying to obtain jurors who don't have strong opinions about this as well. >> this is something travis
mcmichael put on the front of his truck. he wanted the world to know this. he put it out there for people to see him driving around with this particular plate on the front of his truck. a little disingenuous to be asked for it to be blurred out, that it is not relevant to this case. >> reporter: the defense argues there is no way of knowing arbery saw the plate. while the prosecution states they can't prove arbery saw the flag, they say the placement of the vanity plate is essential evidence. the judge will issue an order in opening statements. a white woman was replaced by alternate 1. another one for other reasons. all three have pleaded not guilty to the murder charges.
travis and gregory mcmichaels claims they were conducting a citizens arrest and acting in self-defense. william roddie brian maintains he had no part in the killing. the trial expected to get under way in less than three hours, john. . >> amara walker, we appreciate you being there for us. please keep us posted. joining us now is cnn political commentator and attorney, bakari sellers. i first want to ask about the makeup of this jury. he accepted the individual arguments from the defense about their vetoes of several black potential jurors. . >> yeah. i've actually never use the term intentional discrimination. when you echo that sentiment, you can't walk it back. one of the things that you'll
hear a lot when you look at the layout of jurors is batson. it's the challenge that you make about people are excluded simply because of their race. we also know about batson it is very easy to overcome. all you have to do is overcome that you didn't exclude this person because of their race but because of the fact that, you know, they were a part of madd or the democratic party or they were part of something else that was ancillary to their race. so it's very easy to get around. the problem we have in these cases, people are seeing how the law is doled out. when you have tpraeutsz like intentional discrimination it is difficult to believe even in death arbery will get justice or fairness. . >> i have to believe. the concept of batson was formulated to protect defendants that were minorities. and it's very interesting here we have height defendants that
are now benefiting by something that was supposed to benefit minorities so they would have a fair jury. so it is fair play. but we do have to question whether or not this has been properly employed here. as just stated, the judge remarked, yes, i saw discrimination. if we contrast just what happened yesterday in kenosha, where a judge eliminated a juror for a comment because of the poe ten ality of bias. they are there to made referees. the judge made the call as he saw the call. what was noted, as stated by my colleagues. >> race-neutral reasons were given, and that is all that is necessary to overcome batson. >> we will talk about that quote-unquote joke in the kyle rittenhouse case in a second. i want to know what you think about this debate over what should be allowed in. this video of a gravely wounded ahmaud arbery.
this is like police video after the response. and then also this license plate with the confederate flag. what do you think? do you think those should be allowed in? >> in both cases, you look is it more prejudicial than probative? what is probative to the facts that are going to be decided to the jury? the death of ahmaud arbery is, and his final moments, is going to be horrific for the family, horrific in terms of how it may affect the jury. do those last dying moments, are they probative to what happened to lead to the death? to they tell us what was the inept? are they indicative of that? so that will be one of the things the judge is factoring. similarly, with the license plate, this goes to the mentality of the defendants. this is what they were out doing that day.
this is what informs us as to their mind-set. but the question that the defense raises, well, it's more, again, what they're saying again. they're using what is to be concerned for the defense. was it more prejudicial than probative. . >> how significant, abbakari,s you think the outcome will be? do you worry there will be unrest? . >> i dare not talk about michigan platform and the unrest. yeah, i'm afraid of a not guilty verdict in kenosha and a not guilty verdict in the trial of the three men who murdered ahmaud arbery. both of which are very plausible. part of the reason that it reasons me, people are seeing the uneven way justice is doled out in this country.
when you have a county a third pack and you have a jury 11-1, of course you can talk about voter registration, et cetera, but that doesn't necessarily fix the problem that we have. one white woman was replaced by another. it even shows you the alternates are white. in kenosha, the judge is more interested in being a fox news colleague and attacking jeffrey toobin and he has to be pressed up against the wall figuratively about a juror being an outright racist. . >> let's be clear about that. the juror in the kyle rittenhouse case, and people will recall kyle rittenhouse is in kenosha during a night of protest and unrest, shot and killed two people and injured another. a jury in this case was dismissed for telling a joke about jacob make.
jacob make was the reason why he was behind all of this unrest. this joke was why he was shot so many times. the judge did remove him. but clearly you think that's just sort of, you know, that's not much? . >> well, i mean -- i can't recall the joke, but it was along the lines of the fact that he was shot seven or eight times and the only time he was shot seven or eight times was because there were no more bullets. it was a gruesome joke. in court, one of the things you try to do is exclude people who may not help your case. but you definitely try to exclude the racist on the jury. and that apparently didn't work. if this is the mind-set of one of the jurors in this case in kenosha, which i think will be a much more difficult battle for the prosecution, then it will be a long day for justice in this
country. . >> you would think jurors should be thoughtful people. and i think certainly what we saw in wisconsin challenged that notion. bakari, thank you so much. stacy stacy, praoes you being with us as well. we should see a swing in the races. harry entin is at the wall. will smith talking about his abusive upbringing. what he contemplated doing to his abusive father. ugh! and then...the present. and finally, ebenezer...the future! introducing the all-electric eqs.
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what it takes to win an election. it all comes down to turnout. and it truly does. definition alley. but for whom? some often conventional wisdom is it always helps democrats. is it true? senior taught reporter, harry entin. these off-year weird elections, people tend to think turnout will be way off here. turn turnout was pretty high. . >> it was pretty high. all of a sudden the enthusiasm for voting go down. turns out no. in new jersey and virginia. look at this. the turnout up. about 400,000. look at this. virginia, the turnout up a little less than a million. but in both places, in new jersey and virginia, it's just not a virginia-specific story, turnout was higher even with trump not in the white house. >> conventional wisdom has been
high turnout helps democrats. true this time? . >> not really. here again, turnout, this is the change in votes by party for governor from 2017 to 2021. look, democrats gained votes in new jersey and virginia. up at this point again. up nearly 70,000. but look on the republican side. look how many more they got. 500,000 votes for young kin than gillespie in 2017. the people who were more likely to turn out may have in fact, been republicans, not democrats. . >> there is off a they bait in political circles. is it better to go out and turn your voter out, work to get the people who support you to the polls or to change minds. that's called persuasion. . >> that is correct. that is called persuasion.
one group who can be persuadable are inspects. look how much they changed the last five years. trump won independents by five. kaine won by 14 in 2018. in 2020, biden winning independents by 19 points. 21 governor, youngkin by nine points. there are in fact, voters out there not set in their ways. there are people among independents who are willing to change their minds. with he see it clearly in the numbers. in it is worth trying on change people's minds when you run for office. . >> or there swing voters out there, believe it or not. >> so in 2020, we're talking about turnout. one of the questions has been, oh, was joe biden able to turn out new voters or democratic voters. it's hard to tell. . >> it really is. one of the ways we can to this, pew research looked at verified
research. look at 2020 you not 2016. these were new voters, many younger folks, under the age of 18 that weren't eligible to vote. they favored joe biden by 8 points. that's only slightly more than the folks who voted in both elections. over the age of 30, definitely eligible in both elections, there was no difference. you can see all the numbers are pretty much the same. basically the same politics. . >> changing minds again. . >> persuasion, persuasion, persuasion. i think we will get high turnout again. we saw it higher in 2021 than 2017 even with from ump not on the ballot. 48% is higher than in any of the
past cycles at this particular point lead to go a midterm. right now it looks good. good for americans. very proud. >> one thing i know for sure, today is friday. which means it will soon be sunday. . >> it is soon going to be sunday. you know i love the buffalo bills. you love your new england patriots. look, you have more super bowl wins at 6-0. this year's chance of questioning the super bowl, that leads the national football league. your new england patriots, lagging, just lagging at 1%. this is our best shot to win. i used to say bills haven't won the super bowl since my barmitzvah. >> so you are saying there is always a chance? . >> there is a i chance i could go up into space.
. >> i'm old enough to remember when the bills were in the super bowl every year. >> i am not old enough. . >> they lost. >> i do recall that. . >> living in the past but here. >> living in a dream. . >> you might have a better chance to go to space than your bills winning it. . >> we will see what happens in february. don't count your chickens before they hatch. . >> both of those numbers are pretty terrible. but i'm here for you. . >> long-distance "smackdown". . >> i don't have to teal with the fallout. a major development in the long-term fight against covid. what we know about a new pill. this is really amazing you to hear this. s at world sounds the alarm on a climate crisis, new cnn reporting on a group of republicans looking to change the party's image on the issue. but there is one big obstacle. i'll give you one guess.
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>> donald trump may say it is a hoax. many republicans may follow suit. but some members of the gop are taking the climate crisis seriously and trying to change the gop's image on the issue. that is no easy task when the defacto leader is a total climate change denier. this is interesting to see this shift happening but also the obstacles the republicans are facing. >> climate change say top priority in both parties, not just democrats. and republicans recognize that. they think this is the potential electoral weakness if they don't do more to acknowledge the problem but also offer up their own solutions aside from railing against the green new deal.
we have seen a concerted effort to address the issue. house minority leader kevin mccarthy appointed a task force this year. and a newly formed caucus. i think lindsey graham summed it up well. south carolina, very conservative. we could win the solution debate. if we're in the denial camp, we've got a problem. i think in 2024 we need to have a plat to were in our praert that speaks to the issue. here is the issue with that statement. you know what else may happen in 2024? donald trump. the last time he ran he didn't even adopt a plan. he called it a hoax. i believe in one email he called it the seventh greatest host in america. not the first, the seventh. alongside the russia investigation and the 2020 election. this just speaks to the problem.
republicans won't push back on him. in fact, a lot of them sound like him oreck co him. steve scalise of louisiana, whose state has been hit hard by hurricanes anded tphraoing, what are your party's plans? his response was to down play the impact of climate change on natural disasters. i think this gop mission of trying to shake their image as the party of climate change deniers, has a long way to go. . >> yeah. and i will say conservative climate caucus. say that three times fast. it is not easy. mel, thank you so much for for the reporting. we have breaking news. pfizer announced its new anti-covid bill is 85% effective at preventing deaths and hospitalizations. what more we are learning about that drug next. so we are about an hour away from learning if they will take a big vote in the house of representatives. this could be the day. the house finally weighs in on president biden's agenda.
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breaking news, pfizer announced its pill reduces hospitalization or death by 89% among people at high risk. this is a huge deal potentially in the battle against the pandemic. a pill that fights covid once you get it. joining us to discuss is gregory zuckerman author of "a shot to save the world." the inside story of the life or death race for a covid-19 vaccine. thanks so much for being with us. . >> pleasure. >> i want to get to the book in a moment. it is very connected to the breaking news this morning. pfizer announced its own results not peer reviewed yet.
other people have to look at this. but about 90% effective in preventing hospitalization after you get covid. . >> it is remarkable, progressive. modern science has got this under control. i want to go crazy. it hasn't been approved yet, as you suggest. but we have to embrace it. it has to be given early on. you still need a vaccine. but it will be a great fool for us all, for mankind. >> to rewind a little bit, had something like this existed early on in the pandemic could have saved a lot of haoepbs. >> along with the vaccines. we need to emphasize we still need the vaccines. but this is going to be a great one-two punch for us all, to help us all. >> and it did not exist. this is something that did not exist before. talk about how hard it is to come up with something like this as quickly as it did. >> we were close to it perhaps, the enormity of these scientific
achievements. until last year the average vaccine took 10 years to develop. the fastest one, mumps, was four mumps. this was done in a year. i want to emphasize for the viewers, it wasn't like they cut corners to get the drugs or the vaccines done. >> your book goes into great detail about the vaccines. i call it a miracle. it really is unprecedented. . >> it is fascinating to me who did it. moderna, who no one really heard of over a year ago. biontech in germany, behind the pfizer vaccine. fascinating characters. scientists laboring. immigrants. an american kind of story. for years people dismissed mrna. these scientists were skeptical.
to me there was a lot of drama that i didn't realize until i started to do the research. . >> like what? >> moderna almost didn't have enough money to make the vaccines. in may 2020, they went to the government, to merck, to charities, nonprofits and said we don't have the money. nobody helped them. they had to enter wall street. biontech had the executive had to convince pfizer, yeah, after this is going to be a pandemic and then they got on board. we have to be appreciative of the modern miracles. >> compared to polio, it was done more quickly and impressively than polio. with the speed, they got the polio vaccine, everyone rejoiced. this one, the country has been handed a miracle and people are saying, nah, no thanks. >> it is sad to me. and the people that worked on