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tv   Don Lemon Tonight  CNN  November 12, 2021 7:00pm-8:00pm PST

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that's right, the shizzel is rizzel when it comes to messing with congress' subpoenas that. now people know contempt has teeth. what will it mean for bannon and those else. that's the question and we take the question to the big show. >> the shi zrkzzle is for rizzl. that's the second time i had to correct you. >> what did you say that i said differently? >> you said rizzle. >> what did you say? >> for rizzle. >> you are no authority on anything. >> don't get huffy with me. >> i'm not huffing. >> everyone said -- you remember
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the old saying during the first trump lock her up, lock her up? [ laughter ] >> look, he could get two years. >> he's not going to testify. this is a badge of honor for him. >> it's him trying to take down america to build the america he wants and i really think that this is more about what it means for the other people. i don't think you see a lot of people sit in jail for donald trump. >> except for the people who tried to break into the capitol and -- >> a lot of them aren't winding up in jail, either. >> this is true. this is true. yeah, i agree with you 100% on that. i think this is from mark meadows and kayleigh mcenany and the other guy, steven miller and
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all those guys. this is for them. and we have been saying what is taking merrick garland so long? apparently, he was crossing his ts and dotting his is and here we are on a friday night and steve bannon is indicted criminal contempt of congress. >> look, it's a big deal. and it's also a good instruction for our audience in terms of how you should view coverage. there was nothing wrong and i'm not just saying this because i was one of them in saying what is merrick garland doing? why aren't they talking more about this? because it was such a political thing by nature, you would think they would be expansive in their explanation of it but they weren't but then there was another level of analysis that was really continuing up until today ironically that here is why he's not going to do anything. here is why it's so much more complicated. here is why it's so hard for them and all along he was presenting evidence to the grand jury. be careful what you listen to. >> the committee has no power.
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they lost their teeth. nothing is going to happen and whatever, they will disband. look, it was all out there. i think we got so used to over the last five years or so, everyone telegraphing, everyone boasting, everyone saver rattling we'll go after those guys and the fake news and blah, blah, blah and get all of this and, you know, nothing ever happened. it was all lies. now people are quietly behind the scenes doing their job and here is what we got, boom, indictment deal with it. >> that is not a conviction. ba bannon, in any case, best case scenario, he has to do it. it was very broad. very expansive. really what bannon did showing up, i can talk about this.
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i can talk about this until that stuff is settled. >> take the fifth. >> we understand why you have the right. it doesn't feel right. it seems like you're hiding something and he's the opposite. he wants to be on the attack. >> yeah, well, remember that, too. because the folks who were today and yesterday saying when the prosecution, i don't know sometime this week was, you know, criticized and i think rightly so for talking about kyle rittenhouse's silence, right, before he got on the stand and the judge said that is your right so you have the right to be silent and you have the right to take the fifth and have a right not to incriminate. anyone or people have the right to be silent. >> you changed stories very depthly. >> i did. >> i'll tell you what, just because you have a right doesn't make everything right and that judge going after the prosecutor
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about that constitutional point and i don't understand what the prosecutor's thinking was in attacking the silence. he'll have to explain that after all this is over. but when that prosecutor went into it with the judge, he wasn't talking about his miranda ruling. he was talking about the prior inconsistent statement ruling and say why doesn't the defense have to live by that? >> talking about the constitution. >> remember this, brother. if he's acquitted, there is no second bite at the apple in all likelihood for the prosecution because the judge stunk. unless you're appealing it in realtime like right now as you're doing that litigation, as well, it's not going to happen. if he's acquitted, double jeopardy will stand. if it's a hung jury, you may see that come out as a new argument. >> i'll definitely change the subject again, okay? because i'll do something today to you that happened today. i'll free chris cuomo -- >> what did you call me. >> crissy. >> call me that again and see
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what happens. >> see you carmen. >> i love you d lemon despite you. >> i'm reserving judgment this evening. >> never reserved judgment in your life. >> i'll tell you at dinner sunday night. safe drive home. see you later. this is "don lemon tonight." well, we've all been asking when merrick garland's justice department is going to do something about steve bannon's stone walling and now we know. tonight is the night. tonight is the night. remember that song? what was that? i forget her name. this is huge, this is huge. steve bannon indicted on two counts of a contempt of congress for defying a subpoena from the january 6th committee. bannon was charged with one count related to his refusal to appear for a deposition and another related to his refusal to produce documents. each count carries a minuimum o 30 days and a maximum of one year in jail according to the justice department. a source says bannon is expected
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to self-surrenderer on monday and appear on court monday afternoon. so stay tuned. the attorney general issuing a statement. i promised justice department employees together we would show the american people by word and deed that the department adheres to the rule of law follows the facts and the law and pursues equal justice under the law. today's charges reflect the department's steadfast commitment to these principles. quote. merrick garland issuing today. bennie thompson and liz cheney saying steve bannon's indictment will send a clear message to anyone that thinks they can ignore the select committee or try to stone wall the investigation. no one is above the law. we will not hesitate to use the tools at our disposal to get the information we need.
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committee member cro khanna als weighing in tonight. >> it sends a message no american is above the rule of law, that the same rules apply to everyone and i don't know why steve bannon thinks he shouldn't have to answer questions from the united states congress or produce documents to the united states congress when every other citizen would compile. >> like i said, this is huge. the doj hasn't charged anyone with criminal contempt of congress in 38 years and let's remember why the committee subpoenaed steve bannon in the first place. they want to know more about moments like this one. we're going to show the day before the attack on the united states capitol. >> all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. understand this. all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. it's not going to happen like you think. it will be quite extraordinary different and all i can say is strap in. a war room, a posse, you made
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this happen and tomorrow it's game day so strap in. >> that's what he said out loud. imagine what he knows that he doesn't want to tell. and there is this from bob w woodward bannon telling the then president quote we're going to bury biden on january 6th. the fact is, this indictment may never force steve bannon to talk but make no mistake, this is a warning shot aimed at the other members of team trump. let me explain. the message is loud and clear. if you defy a subpoena, there will be consequences. that's got to have a whole lot of them shaking in their boots tonight. okay? steven miller, kayleigh mcenany, michael flynn and maybe most of all, mark meadows who failed to appear for a deposition before the committee today. if he was counting on stone walling like bannon, he maybe rethinking that strategy tonight. cheney
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saying they refuse to join a group of witnesses defying a subpoena out right and mr. meadows and mr. bannon won't prevail in stopping the select committee's effortmerican peopl about january 6th but in that same statement, there is this intriguing quote. indeed, mr. meadows has failed to answer even the most basic questions including whether he was using a private cell phone to communicate on january 6th and where his text messages from that day are. i'm going to talk to the experts tonight about what investigators may be focussing on there. and it comes on the same day we have stunning new audio of the former president defending the january 6th rioters who chanted hang mike pence defending rioters who wanted to hang his
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vice president. john carl from abc. >> were you worried about him during that siege? were you worried -- >> no, i thought he was well protected and i heard he was in good shape, no. because i had heard he was in very good shape but no -- >> those chants were terrible. >> he could have -- the people were very angry. >> they were saying hang mike pence. >> it's common sense, jon, it's common sense that you're supposed to protect -- how can you -- if you know a vote is fraud fraudulent, right, how can you pass a fraudulent vote to congress? >> i mean, and any other time, think about what he said, in any other time, people would just be outraged. number one, you have someone condoning violence, condoning
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people saying, condoning violent language and people saying hang mike pence, hang the vice president. two things. on the right it has become the norm. they have become desensitized to this stuff, right? they're just -- okay. whatever. this is what it is. this is how we operate. on the left, they're just dialled out because they're exhausted from it. they're like oh my gosh again. dialled out. it's okay to want to hang the vice president over a lie. that is outrageous even for this former president. his then vice president had to run for his life on january 6th. >> hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence!
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>> oh, and a reality check, as i said, the vote was not fraudulent. the election was not stolen, it was the most secure election in our nation's history. according to all involved. his own attorney general said there is no evidence of wide spread voter fraud that could change the outcome. arizona's election fraud-it turned up more votes for joe biden and fewer for the former president. let me say that again. the fraud-it supposed to show fraud in arizona that the election was tilted towards joe biden because it was fake and they were going to uncover these fake votes and voter fraud actually turned up more votes for joe biden and fewer for the former president. so it actually didn't account enough for joe biden. state and federal judges dismissed more than 50 of the
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lawsuits by the then president and his allies. and he is condoning a bunch of vigilantes outside the capitol and threatened to hang mike pence. that's real gallows. so much for law sand order. so much for law and order. that can be said about a lot of things happening now and let's not forget really what this is about, okay? this is about more than a legal case. this is about the death of our democracy. that's not hyperbole. look at your screen. this is about a violent attempt to overturn the free and fair election, a bloody attack on the united states capitol. just regular ol' tourists and
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patriots. duly elected representatives of the american people forced to run for their lives as the mob surged through the seat of our demo demo democracy. >> riters -- rioters breaking through. american flags, blue lives matter flags. look at all those red cabs, too. i'm sure it was antifa. this is not a president that told rioters this, the whole blood and broken glass were being cleaned up.
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while that was being cleaned up, he said this, watch. >> go home. we love you. you're very special. you've seen what happens. you see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil i know how you feel. >> he knows how you feel. never forget. never forget. never forget. this is about a former president who doesn't want you to know what he did on january 6th. and in the days leading up to the insurrection because that's what it was an insurrection, a violent insurrection, a violent attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power. he doesn't want his inner circle to answer questions. you got to wonder, what's he trying to hide? so the big news tonight is that
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steve bannon is indicted on two counts of contempt of congress. we've got cnn senior legal affairs correspondent paula reed, senior legal analyst pete. paula got evening and i want to start with jessica snyder. paula, sto sorry, i'll start wi you. we're expecting steve bannon to turn himself in on monday. >> we expect him to self-surrenderer on monday and appear in court the same afternoon. it's not expected he would be detained while this plays out but like anyone, he has the option to potentially plead guilty, not something that would be on brand for him or he could fight this in a trial. look, not everyone has the resources to take on the justice department but he does. and if big if he is convicted, he would also have the opportunity to appeal. this could be a really long drawn out process but it appears right now, right out of the
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trump playbook his approach is to delay, delay, delay, fight, fight, fight. now, while it is possible that the house could change hands and the committee could go away, the indictment will not. these charges will not just go away. even though he tries to delay, these will remain. now, it's also important to note that one thing they're not likely to get here is his cooperation. they cannot compel him to cooperate. this is punitive for completely defying the subpoena. it's unlikely the committee will ever hear from steve bannon. >> paula, mark meadows and others are stone walling the committee, obviously, how much pressure does this bannon indictment put on them to comc comply? >> not everyone has the resources to fight. i've been speaking to witnesses in the case and some of the witnesses stone walling are waiting to see what happens to
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steve bannon. will there be blanket reperc repercussions. if no charges were brought, some of the witnesses i'm told would have felt more emboldened to do the same thing but now, they see look, there could potentially be consequences and a cost but again, that does not mean they're going to run to the committee and give them everything they want. some witnesses will likely engage with the committee in a negotiation to try to narrow the topics that they would be willing to cooperate on. some could also potentially shell up and plead the fifth. it is more likely that will get more engagement from the witnesses and it's unlikely we'll see too many more blanket refusals but no kwauguarantee t will get total cooperation from anybody. >> appreciate that. the committee says mark meadows failed to answer whether he was using a private cell phone on january 6th and where his text messages, where they are from that day. so prete, what could -- i mean, what could be on that phone they
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want? don't answer that. let me get to you after the break because i got to take a break and come back with prete. yeah. we're carvana, the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100% online. now we've created a brand-new way for you to sell your car. whether it's a year old or a few years old. we wanna buy your car. so go to carvana and enter your license plate answer a few questions. and our techno wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds. when you're ready, we'll come to you, pay you on the spot and pick up your car, that's it. so ditch the old way of selling your car, and say hello to the new way at carvana.
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so here is our breaking news tonight, steve bannon is
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expected to surrenderer on monday following his indictment by a federal grand jury for contempt of congress for ignoring a subpoena from the january 6th committee. bannon is a major trump ally and now he's charged with refusing to appear. bannon's lawyer said the former trump strategists would not cooperate because his old boss told him not to claiming executive privilege. a lot to discuss with a former u.s. attorney prete. sorry for the wait. i had to get a break in. i wanted to give you the time you deserve. thank you for being with us. huge development. you can't deny it's a standoff. bannon indiected for two counts for refusing to testify. is this a slam dunk case for the department of justice? >> i wouldn't say there is no such thing as a slam dunk case when you talk about a criminal prosecution because it depends on the judge and jury but i
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think it's pretty strong and, you know, part of the reason you know it's pretty strong is it's the first time the justice department as you said earlier brought such a case, criminal contempt of congress in 38 years. and of all the cases that we've been talking about and all the people who have been in defiant of the subpoenas that, it's probably true. we don't know the full list yet. more are coming. it's probably true steve bannon has the least good argument for defying the subpoena because he wasn't in the government at the time and so his claim of executive privilege i think falls very short of the mark and it's kind of good, i think, for the justice department and for the committee that steve bannon was almost so defiant he was practically begging the department to indict him for the first time in 38 years, which sends a message to everybody else. it will take time for his case to unfold. he'll be arraigned on monday. he will plead not guilty. at some point, i'm sure he'll insist on a trial and that will take some time.
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in the interim he'll move to dismiss the case. we'll see what happens with that. but it's not a slam dunk but pretty strong. >> so mark meadows failed to show up to testify today before the committee. the committee chairman bennie thompson and also liz cheney, right, the chair, as well, they say that they're going to consider pursuing contempt charges against them. there is a good chance bannon is relishing in this but what about mark meadows and others? does this change the calculous for them? >> you know, the psychology of individuals varies from person to person in prior conversations that you and i and others have had on the question of whether or not someone will flip it depends on what their tolerance is for defending themselves, paying the money it costs to defend yourself and possibly having a prison interm in your future. some people are built a certain way like steve bannon may like the idea of being a martyr and
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the idea of the attention and the idea of the battle. other people may natural accomplish it so much. unclear where mark meadows is on that but probably the rest of the group is not as excited about being charged, prosecuted and potentially sent to jail for a minimum of a month as steve bannon. >> yeah. i want to read this. this is from thompson and cheney's statement on meadows. it says indeed mr. meadows failed to answer the most basic questions including whether he was using private cell phone to communicate on january 6th and where his text messages from that date are. meadows is possibly using a private cell phone to raise the idea of missing texts as well there. text messages. it seems like no accident that they would include this in their statement. what could be on that phone and why is he using a private phone? >> well, there are -- people in government understand that the official phones they use, the official blackberries in the old days and iphones more recently,
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those documents are preserved. those communications are preserved and sometimes it's the case that they want to use other devices to have conversations with people around them up to and including the president of the united states and feel more comfortable having conversations that are more dubious and maybe not proper and maybe that would be incriminating on these other devices and so you always want to look for the other devices. what is not clear to me is whether or not the committee knows the information about the other device and is sort of, you know, playing psychological warfare here or got information from third parties knowing what the phone number is, knowing who the communications provider is but want to get the information directly from the witness. we'll have to see. >> if congress decides to refer more criminal charges to other trump aids who don't cooperate, and don't even both -- don't
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even bother to show up here, do you expect that merrick garland would seek prosecution on those too? >> so as i said, i think the easiest case to bring so far based on the nature of the arguments they have and the nature of the witness and their relationship to the president, the former president and their placement in or outside of the executive branch, steve bannon was probably the lowest hanging fruit. that doesn't mean there will be other prosecutions but i don't think everyone that doesn't cooperate fully will be on the other end of an indictment by the justice department. that doesn't make sense and not efficient and probably wouldn't go well for the justice department. they will have to pick their shots, pick their spots on who is being most having a viable case of being able to defend themselves based on executive privilege. i think the worst-case scenario for people is people like
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meadows that don't give the respect of the committee of showing up invoking whatever privilege based on the particular question being asked and jeffrey clark who is another interesting figure in this, former justice department official basically didn't do much more than steve bannon but showed respect by showing up to the committee with his lawyer, answering probably some mundane questions he didn't have any worry about and wouldn't incriminate him but refused to answer other questions. will he be charged if he doesn't bring more information forward? maybe. it's a smarter strategy on his part. >> have you seen anything like this? i mean, beyond watergate, have we seen anything like this? >> i was young when watergate happened. we haven't. by the way, i think it's important to always go back to a fundamental principle that is this. we see over and over again not just in this context but in the context of the pandemic and other things when some branch of the government, some element of the government says we need to do this extraordinary thing
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that's unprecedented whether it's seek an indictment against someone invoking executive privilege or mandates for vaccines or whatever the case may be, it doesn't end there. you have to look at what is the thing causing that action to be taken and if the thing causing that action to be taken is itself unprecedented and extraordinary that explains the situation a little better. and so the thing that's important here to remember when you zoom out for a moment is what are they inquiring about? it's not a stock trade. it's not a petty corruption of a corporation. it's a fundamental issue of an insurrection at the capitol during which people tried to bring physical harm to the speaker of the house and chanted they wanted to hang mike pence. when you have a congress that is trying to protect itself against attacks from within the country, i think extraordinary measures
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are called for and that's an important thing to keep in mind and the judges adjudicating these cases will keep that in mind. >> preete, thank you. >> we got more on former trump advisor steve bannon being indicted today as audio emerges of the former president making excuses for the violent mob that stormed the capitol screaming hang mike pence. >> you better run, cops! metamucil psyllium fiber, gels to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down. it also helps lower cholesterol and slows sugar absorption to promote healthy blood sugar levels. so you can feel lighter and more energetic metamucil. support your daily digestive health. and try metamucil fiber thins. a great tasting and easy way to start your day.
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steve bannon's indictment turning foeltcus on other promit trump allies like mark meadows that failed to show up for a deposition today. that as new audio shows that the former president defended rioters who threatened to hang mike pence on january 6th so joining me now, cnn political commentator ana navarro and scott jennings. the band is back together. good evening. good to see you. the doj showing it is not playing around. bannon predicted all hell would break loose on january 6th and it did. he kept stone walling. i imagine you have a few thoughts on this this evening. >> i'm happy about it.
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i think it was about time. i think you should really not be able to flaunt privilege and be so arrogant and have such risk and just disregard the law and get away with it. that's not what america is. that's not what america is founded on. i'm glad that the doj is taking him accountable. as everyone else said before me, i'm sure he's going to love this. i'm sure we're going to see a lot of images and videos of him going into the court and holding up his hand and a sign of defiance so he's going to bask in the attention. listen, steve bannon is worth tens of millions of dollars. the other people are not and need jobs and board seats and speeches and contributorships.
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i don't know many that want to hire folks that are indicted in a case like this. >> scott, mark meadows, that's the next one, he could be facing his own criminal contempt referral, lawmakers especially want to know if he used a private cell phone on january 6th. do you think those like meadows who aren't compiling, try to go down his martyrs, holding on to, you know, undying loyalty to the former president or do you think they're going to cave? >> yeah, meadows and the other staffers have a better argument. bannon does not have an argument. there is no privilege here. he's on the wrong side of the law here. meadows has a stronger argument here. my suspicion is that they would rather not be in the position that bannon, i think, is trying to maneuver himself into which is as anna suggested to be a totum for this movement. this is probably not what their angling for.
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one way to cure this is show up and answer some questions, try to invoke privilege on others and try to work with the committee that's something that's been done in the past to try to avert these sorts of situations. so i don't know what the ultimate end game is for him but my recommendation is try to not be indicted if you can avoid it if possible. [ laughter ] >> good advice, scott jennings. >> i'm not a lawyer, hey, i'm not a lawyer but that's my outside looking in. >> but you play one on tv. listen, i've got to -- >> listen. >> i've got to ask you -- >> federal -- don, getting indicted in federal court could add up to hundreds if not thousands in legal fees. >> the former president defending the threats from riters to hang mike pence. i mean, any other time i think people would be outraged and it would be breaking news and that's all we would be talking about. now i think this is -- it has
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sadly become the norm but it insane. >> i'm not even sure what the news worthiness of it is. it would be news worthy if he had said something differently. but this is donald trump. he's going to be in his death bed and in his last breath he's going to be blaming mike pence for having allowed the election to be stolen from him in a fraud length way. he is never going to change his story. donald trump cannot accept that he is a loser, that he is a loser, a loser. let me say it in spanish [speaking foreign language]. his ego cannot take it. he's convinced himself after this evening if it means not caring about the fact that there was literally actually a noose hanging there for mike pence. the mike pence thing is relevant. if i'm one of the trump loyalists who is looking at a possible indictment and i see
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the lack of loyalty towards somebody like mike pence who practically shined the guy's boots for four years, i really have to question whether it's worth the pain, the emotional distress, the financial distress and everything that comes with it. >> yeah. anna, listen, next time i want you to really tell us how you really feel. scott, sorry, we don't have any more time to -- but your facial expressions said everything, i mean, a million words as she was speaking. >> thank you, yes. >> thank you. >> always -- >> try to emote and tell the viewers how i feel. >> esquire. scott jennings esquire. >> she didn't have power over her life, her body, her money. now she's free. ♪ ♪ all these people talking all this stuff about me, why don't they just let me live ♪ ♪ i don't need permission, make
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she is free. talking about britney spears 13-year conservatorship over. terminating the arrangement today, fans of the singer cheered and celebrated outside the court just moments later. look at them. the pop star shared her appreciation in an instagram post saying god, good god i love my fans so much it's crazy. i think i'm going to cry the rest of the day. best day ever. praise the lord. can i get an amen? #f #freed britney. can i get a woop woop? joining me is areva martin the author of "awakening" i had to do the woop woop.
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>> we all need a good laugh on a friday night. >> can we put that book back up real quick? look at areva, okay? [ laughter ] >> bring it -- >> you had a good move, don. >> awakening, you're making it rain on that cover. >> i love it. those are both of my book titles. i love you. >> huge day for britney spears after 13 years finally free from this conservatorship. how long have we been talking about -- does she have full control of every aspect of her life? >> every aspect of her life, don, her finances, her personal decisions, her reproductive rights, who she dates, who she married, how many kids she has, every decision an adult should be able to make britney can make and thank the lord, i agree with her. can we get an amen on that. >> #freedbritney. her attorney said a safety net will be in place for spears' finances and personal care.
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that's good but what does it entail? >> well, what we know is that he's going to transfer her assets into a trust and that's probably a team of lawyers and financial people and people that will help her make her own decisions rather than having her father, which is what happened for the last 13 years and other lawyers and conservators make decisions for her. clearly, britney did not require conservatorship and unfortunately, there are over a million people in this country that find themselves in conspirator shipsh and $50 billn in assets. you can imagine these situations are right for fraud. >> yeah. i wonder if this legal battle with her father is just getting started. she said this conservatorship was abusive and asking for the recording devices until the bedroom and all that. is this just the beginning? >> she has a really skilled attorney. he came and turned this case
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around in months. he's filed a 110-page document and deposition and questions how money was spent and britney was surveilled saying she had listening and cameras in her bedroom. this attorney will get to the bottom of things. these are serious matters, if there was mismanagement or embezzlement of funds, not only might there be civil charges filed but criminal charges. these are very serious matters. >> areva, thank you, awakening, "making it rain." appreciate you joining us. >> play more of the bobby brown to take us out. ♪ everybody is talking all this stuff about me, why don't they just let me be ♪ ♪ tell me why ♪ ♪ i don't need permission, make my own decisions, that's my prerogative ♪ ♪ that's my prerogative ♪ air. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really?
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so take this, a republican that lost an election conceded the race and rebuking any claims of voter fraud. seriously. don't believe me. take a listen to new jersey republican candidate for governor jack ciattarelli. >> i hate to lose. i'm also someone that believes strongly in our republic and democratic processes and enough votes have been counted. there does not appear to be a path to victory or the basis for a recount. more do we know of any system make or wide spread fraud so no, i see no proof that this election was stolen. >> wow. see how easy that is?
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telling the truth. see how easy that is? goes to show not everyone is buying into the big lie and truth still matters to some republicans. it should not be a race for an election loser to -- rare i should say for an election loser to admit they lost. well, we'll let you know when it happens again. up next, steve bannon indicted so will the rest of team trump refuse to cooperate with the investigating committee on january 6th, are they thinking of talking now? so subaru is growing our commitment to protect the environment. in partnership with the national forest foundation, subaru and our retailers are proud to help replant 1 million trees to help restore our forests. subaru. more than a car company. [sfx: radio being tuned]
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are you a christian author with a book that you're ready to share with the world? get published now, call for your free publisher kit today! so here is our breaking news tonight, steve bannon the one time chief strategists indicted by a federal grand jury on two counts of contempt of congress. refusing to appear for


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