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tv   Don Lemon Tonight  CNN  November 13, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PST

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so here's our breaking news tonight. steve bannon, the onetime chief strategist to the former president, indicted by a federal grand jury on two counts of contempt of congress for ignoring the subpoena by the house january 6th committee. bannon charged with refusing to appear for a deposition and refusing to turn over documents. this major development as trump incredibly appears to defend the
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january 6th rioters who were calling for then-vice president mike pence to be hanged as the insurrection unfolded, saying in a taped interview, quote, the people were very angry and once again pushing the big lie. we're covering all fronts with cnn's senior legal affairs correspondent paula reid, andrew mccabe, laura coates, and ron brownstein. paula, i'm going to start with you since you broke this story, you and your colleagues. this is a huge win for the january 6th committee. what is next for steve bannon and this investigation, paula? >> don, i have to give a huge shout-out to our newly minted associate producer, hannah rabinowitz. she's been staking out the courthouse and will continue to do so as we watch this process unfold. we expect bannon will self-surrender on monday and appear in court monday afternoon. then like anyone, this criminal
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process will play out. he'll have the opportunity to engage in plea deal negotiations though that is not expected, and he has the resources to fight this through a criminal trial. if he is convicted, he can also appeal. so this could be a long, drawn-out process. but in the immediate future, the biggest consequence is for the committee. without any consequence for steve bannon's blanket defiance of this committee, this investigation, don, would have been crippled. i've spoken to witnesses who have been subpoenaed in this case, and they've been watching to see what was going to happen with bannon. would there be any consequence? now that they've seen criminal charges, those come with a cost, not only a cost potentially to your reputation but also legal bills. now those witnesses will have to weigh how they want to proceed, and it is likely we will see more engagement between some of these targets and the committee though it's not necessarily true that there's going to be total cooperation and they're going to get everything they want. >> merrick garland, paula, was under a lot of scrutiny for how long this took. what is he saying tonight?
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>> he was under so much political pressure here, don. even president biden weighed in in favor of prosecution. our colleague, evan perez, reports that, look, the justice department just didn't see this as a very simple case. it's complicated, and it's rare. we're told that the decision to charge was made by career prosecutors, and it was supported by the attorney general, and he released a statement today. look, not all indictments come with a statement from the attorney general. but in this statement, he said, since my first day in office, i have promised justice department employees that together we would show the american people by word and deed that the department adheres to the rule of law, follows the facts and the law, and pursues equal justice under the law. so clearly trying to do some reputation rehab for the justice department that took a lot of flak, a lot of rightful criticism during the previous administration. now, there is another big question here that is going before the d.c. court of
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appeals. there's ongoing litigation between former president trump and the committee over this big question that the justice department has been grappling with here, which is this question of potential privilege, executive privilege. and the biden administration believes that a former president, president trump, does not have the power to keep secret records when the current president, biden of course, wants them released. so far, one federal judge has agreed with that, but those arguments, that's going to go before the court of appeals on november 30th, and that will be huge not only for the former president and these witnesses, but for the committee and the success of its investigation. >> so, listen, you mentioned if merrick garland hadn't done it, it would have just taken the wind out of the sails for this committee. what about the other people who have so far stonewalled this committee? they have got to be, i imagine, pretty nervous because it's expensive to defend oneself, correct?
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>> and likely talking to their lawyer about their options. traditionally you engage in a negotiation with the committee, trying to narrow down and bartter about what you are willing to talk about, what kind of documents you are willing to provide, and if you can come to an agreement, then perhaps you get a deposition or some documents. now, that may not be possible in all cases. these witnesses still have the opportunity if they want to show up to invoke their fifth amendment if there are questions they don't want to answer. and at least showing up, you make it harder for the house committee to argue that you should be held in criminal contempt or refer you for contempt. the person who should be worried right now is former chief of staff mark meadows because he defied a deadline to show up early this morning. he has really followed the bannon method here, complete defiance. no nuance. just completely defy the subpoena and argue privilege to everything. even a lot of what he was asked about wouldn't be covered by privilege even if he had it. so he's going to be watching what's going on in the court of appeals, and the committee has
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signaled they could potentially pursue criminal contempt against him as well. >> appreciate that. paula, thanks so much. joining me now, cnn's senior law enforcement analyst, andrew mccabe. good to see you. thank you. >> good to see you. >> you say the biggest part of the bannon indictment is what it means for the other witnesses. look at meadows. he refused to testify. i think tonight's news might change some minds here? >> i think it's going to weigh very heavily on many of these witnesses for a variety of reasons. you guys have already touched on the expense issue. you know, this is in many ways an easy decision for steve bannon, right? his entire media personality is built around this image of being the fighter and the resister, so this is all very good for his brand. and it's also easy for him to raise money to assist with his defense. i'm not so sure that every other witness who is associated with the former administration can say the same thing. plus many of those folks are going to make the opposite
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assessment of steve bannon, and that is that being indicted by a federal grand jury is not a good thing for your reputation. it's not a good thing for your career prospects. so i do think, don, that folks are recalculating how they want to proceed now, realizing that the committee is going to stand up and doj is going to back them up under the right circumstances. >> steve bannon probably, as you said, likes the fight. he thinks it is good for his brand, right? >> that's right. >> this is what he was saying the day before the insurrection. watch this. >> all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. just understand this. all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. it's not going to happen like you think it's going to happen, okay? it's going to be quite extraordinarily different. and all i can say is strap in. the war room, a posse, you have made this happen, and tomorrow it's game day. so strap in. >> okay. i mean i'm not really -- it's
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kind of obvious, right? it sounds like he would have a lot of critical details about january 6th. like he knew something. >> yeah. i mean once again, in almost a very trumpian way, this guy has basically painted himself into a very troubling corner with his own statements. you know, i think we're a very, very far way off ever actually having someone sit in front of steve bannon and ask him questions. i'm not convinced that will ever happen. but if it did, this is right what you go at, right? okay. here he's clearly indicating some sort of advance knowledge of something that's going to happen on january 6th. i'd open with, steve, let's talk about what you said in your podcast. what did you mean? >> i'm kicking myself for not asking preet this earlier, so i'll ask you. what are you expecting on monday when bannon says he's going to turn himself in? >> i think it will be the
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standard kind of kind of bizarre pageantry around a high-profile arrest. i'm quite confident his lawyers will negotiate a self-surrender. you'll see bannon pulling up at the courthouse, walking inside, and then the cameras will catch him on the way out. it's a very ministerial process. he is officially informed of the charges against him. i'm sure his lawyers will ask that he be released on bond, that it's likely to happen. he'll go home monday night. he's not going to be detained. and then the case will begin its slow grind forward. >> well, there you go. slow. okay. well slow and steady. let's hope that means something in this case. that old saying. thank you, andrew. i appreciate it. >> thanks, don. >> now i want to bring? cnn senior legal analyst laura coates, a former federal prosecutor, and senior political analyst ron brownstein. laura, you have earned your keep this week. i have seen you on television all day for the trials, for this. there's a lot going on.
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good evening to both of you. laura, let me start with you. the january 6th committee needed this win. i mean the big picture, is today an affirmation of congressional oversight that, you know, their subpoenas should not be ignored? >> yes. and actually it was a win for the rule of law. this is really an open and shut case in the sense that if somebody is issued a congressional subpoena, it ought to and should mean something and should carry some weight. to say there was some contemplation by the department of justice, it was likely around the notion of what the other 34 witnesses would try to assert. was there some colorable claim for them as to privilege? preparing for a case-by-case assertion of that privilege with the idea of it was very simple. was there a congressional subpoena issued? yes. did you comply with it? no. that's open and shut. everything in between, though, the assertions of privilege relate to somebody who was not an employee of the executive branch, was not an adviser since
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at least 2017, does not have the same even plausible colorable claims of privilege as, say, perhaps a mark meadows, a former chief of staff, which might be more likely to gain the attention of a court looking at valid assertions of privilege. steve bannon's case was probably a likely test case, figuring out all the different scenarios of what were the contingencies, what were going to be the arguments made, and ultimately preparing for the next 34 potential stonewalls by people subpoenaed by this actual committee. >> i don't know if there's a strategy here, but is this a warning shot from merrick garland to other witnesses? >> yes, and it is more than a warning. it's a federal indictment now. >> all right. >> it's a grand jury independently finding that that is actually what is happening, and it's not just a warning shot. although the trial may be long away, this actually bodes well for an appellate court looking at the issues to figure out is there a legitimate legislative and oversight function here?
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>> mr. brownstein, let me ask you, trump and his followers want us to believe that this is about defending executive privilege. isn't this really about people flagrantly defying congress, trying to shut down questions about an attempted coup? >> yeah, and it's also about, i think, fundamentally, about trying to normalize and excuse and explain away the insurrection itself. i mean, you know, one of the biggest macro issues we have been dealing with since trump came down the escalator is whether our institutions, all of our institutions, are capable of defending the rule of law and democracy as we have known it. and, you know, we have seen those defenses be much more rickety on many fronts for many years than most people expected. i still find it incredible that so few republicans in congress
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are willing to stand up to the institutional prerogatives of congress to compel testimony and to obtain information that it needs from the executive branch. i mean we saw that. we saw it when trump was in office. he tried to stonewall completely and in fact did on the impeachment committees. now we see it extending even beyond office and still crickets from republicans in both chambers refusing to stand up for congress' authority, which ultimately, you know, they will need someday as well. and i think that before we celebrate kind of the victory for the rule of law, we still have to see whether those republican justices on the supreme court, probably at the end of this line, are going to have to decide whether to toss out those claims of privilege for a former president, and i don't think we know that they are going to do that. >> ron, i was looking for jim jordan tweeting this. let's put it up. joe biden has eviscerated executive privilege. there are a lot of republicans
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eager to hear testimony from ron klain and jake sullivan when we take back the house. he's threatening to go after the biden administration, but none of them staged a coup. i mean, this is all just b.s., and i mean -- yeah. >> well, first of all, there's a difference between executive privilege, and laura can probably speak to this better than i can. but there's certainly a difference between executive privilege for a current administration and an executive privilege claim by a former president and kind of this blanket claim of privilege that trump has done. but, yeah, look, you know, the larger context of this is you see trump, you know, in the tape that you played earlier and are going to talk about later defending the attack. you see a declining share of republicans saying this was inappropriate. you see threats of violence becoming more routine, you know, in american politics from not only the top but even, you know, at the local level with school boards and public health officers.
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the character of the democracy is changing, and it is frankly not only distressing but astonishing that there haven't been more republicans willing to enter what, you know, effectively a popular front to defend the basic rules of democracy against the threats that trump has mounted. and you see, if anything, people like jordan kind of abetting trump, enabling trump by threatening those who would stand up against his kind of assault on democracy. >> he said -- he invoked your name, laura. >> well, you know, executive privilege is not about protecting the political ambitions of the incumbent. it's really about preserving the institution of the presidency, and there are instances when you do want to have the protection of these frank, candid, forthright, open discussions with members of your cabinet, members of your advisory panels, people who are close to not only the inner circle but the inner oval office as well.
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so president biden has already said that they're going to look at it through a case-by-case basis as what to assert privilege and what not to because as i said, there is certainly not a colorable claim of executive privilege when you're talking about steve bannon. not a part of the administration in any way. had the bad blood, was out and ousted for quite some time at least in 2017. mark meadows, a chief of staff, you could see there might be some indication and some conversations that actually could be meritorious and worthy of thinking about how you want to deal in the future with that sort of conversation. but you don't get a blanket level of privilege and protection if the nature of the conversation is antithetical to democracy, is somehow involved in a criminal enterprise or otherwise. you don't get to say, listen, because i spoke to the president of the united states, then all bets are off. so they have to actually make that claim on a case-by-case basis, and bannon versus meadows, there is a wide
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spectrum in between. but the person that actually has bannon's case, for example, is somebody who has already ruled twice against interests that trump has tried to assert, whether it be the dominion voting and the big lie or aspects of handing over his taxes to the house of representatives. the idea of balancing democracy against transparency for the public is always of paramount concern, and a supreme court worth their salt should recognize that you cannot use the privilege for political gains. it has to be about something that's colorable, meritorious, and not trying to destroy democracy. >> laura, ron, thank you. by the way, laura, you've been on television all week, but i know behind the scenes, you're marie kondo-ing. between live shots, she's been spring cleaning in the fall. >> i have been -- i have to find my ways to spark joy, okay? that's my decompression.
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thank you very much. you know what? whatever. i've been calling goodwill. pick up a lot from my house. all i'm saying, out with the old. >> thank you, laura. thanks, ron. i'll see you guys. i have some new developments to tell you about today in the trial of the killing of ahmaud arbery. a defense attorney says that he is apologizing to anyone who might have been -- his words -- inadvertently offended when he said this. >> we don't want any more black pastors coming in here or other jesse jackson, whoever was in here earlier this week, sitting with the victim's family, trying to influence a jury in this case. olay body wash hydrates to improve skin 3x better, from dry and dull to firm and radiant. with olay body, i feel fearless in my skin.
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new zzzquil ultra. when you really really need to sleep. tony here from taking to the streets to talk about credit. can you repair your credit yourself? yes. -great. how? uhhh... how long does credit repair take? i don't know, like 10 years. what? are you insane? what's a good credit score? go. 600. maybe if you're trying to pay thousands extra in interest rates. cut the confusion, get started with a free credit evaluation at . a defense attorney in the trial over the killing of ahmaud
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arbery trying to walk back outrageous comments he made yesterday when he said he doesn't want black pastors in the courtroom. he claimed he didn't want their presence influencing the jury. now he's apologizing, sort of. >> if my statements yesterday were overly broad, i will follow up with a more specific motion on monday, putting those concerns in the proper context. and my apologies to anyone who might have inadvertently been offended. >> cnn's martin savidge is covering the trial and he joins me now. there was huge outcry over what that attorney said yesterday. this incident shows just how big of a role race is playing in this case. >> yeah, as if we didn't already know that. and of course there's so many ways that race has been impacted. you've got three white men who are up for murdering a black man. you've got basically an
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all-white jury with one african-american that's serving on it. then on top of that, there are all these insinuations that in the community in which it's all taking place, there is a divide. you have brunswick itself, which is primarily african-american or mostly african-american, but glen county, which is predominantly white. over and over again, race plays an issue. then you've got kevin gough, who just gets up and makes that statement. what does he mean by overly broad? i just found that, when i listened to his explanation, it made no sense. and of course the defense -- other defense teams were outraged because what they fear is that the blowback is against all of them, that whatever kevin gough said is going to make all the defense teams look bad, and thereby their defendants. in fact, it was jason sheffield who came out at the noon break, and he just unloaded against gough. here's a sample of what he had to say. >> there's been a lot of reporting on a statement made by
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kevin gough yesterday in court about wanting no more black pastors. that statement was totally asinine, ridiculous. >> you know, i will point out that kevin gough, in giving his apology today, said he will be filing a motion early next week on the subject matter. so it sounds like kevin gough has still got more to say when it comes to the issues of black pastors. meanwhile, we know that there is just dozens and dozens and dozens, perhaps even hundreds of black pastors that are now planning to make their way to brunswick, georgia, next week. and among them is jesse jackson, who kevin gough mistakenly said was in the courtroom the other day when in fact he was not. but jesse jackson says he will be there next week. >> when he was being overly broad, he said that, made those claims. thank you, martin. i appreciate it. as martin just said, he's not
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only bringing 100 black pastors to pray with the arbery family next week, but he is filing nearly 100 lawsuits over the deadly travis scott concert. who am i talking about? ben crump. he's up next. ever rushed to a doctor's appointment and thought: [whispers] "couldn't i do this from home?" only to get inside, where time stands still. "how long do i have to wait here?" healthcare makes many of us feel anxious, confused, exposed, and overwhelmed—but it doesn't have to be that way. letsgetchecked offers virtual care with home health testing.
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in the trial of ahmaud arbery a killing who said black pastors shouldn't be in court. he said, quote, a public trial involves public observation. arbery family attorney ben crump says next week he plans to show up with 100 black pastors to pray with the family. and ben crump joins me now. ben, thank you so much. good to see you. >> good to see you as always, don. >> let's talk about this defense lawyer. he's now apologizing for his comments, but you plan on bringing 100 black pastors to pray next week. what is the message you want to send here, ben? >> first of all -- [ ina [ inaudible ], and he's not backing him up because they were racist, only because people are calling him out for them being racist. and so that's why which feel we need to make sure the family of ahmaud arbery and any other
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victims who are trying to be marginalized by racism and discrimination know that the black pastors are always welcome to pray for these families in need. and so we are going to be very careful not to give them any reason for a mistrial. however, we won't do anything to abridge the first amendment rights of our clients, especially when it comes to prayer. >> you know, we see that -- look, race is such a central role in this case. we see it in the defense lawyer's ignorant comments. we see it with the makeup of the jury while in the rittenhouse trial, those who were shot can't even be labeled "victims." what do these two trials show about the justice system in this country? >> well, it's what i wrote in my book "open season: the legalized genocide of colored people." it's bad that they kill us in the streets, but it's even worse when they use the laws to kill
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us and try to justify them with technicalities. don, when you think about if the roles were reversed and you had a black son chase down an unarmed young white man and shoot and kill him, you would not find anybody who wouldn't say it was bloody murder, and every ruling would go against that black father and son. and with the rittenhouse trial, the judge seems to be so biased in favor of rittenhouse even though this is a young man who killed two unarmed people. now, think about if he was a young african-american, and that's what the issue is in america. we can't have these two justice systems, one for white america and another for black america. and every time it happens, we have to hold a mirror to america's face.
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>> i want to ask you about the astroworld tragedy, and, boy, it is that. it left nine people dead. you're representing more than 200 people, including a 9-year-old currently in a coma. you've already filed more than 90 lawsuits. what are your clients looking for, ben? >> well, don, you won't to hold those accountable on every level starting with live nation, the world's largest concert and music festival promoter. they do concerts all over the world, and we want to make sure that they give justice to those who were catastrophically injured and psychologically injured, but also those families who are dealing with losing their children. some of them in high school, some of them in college. some sense of justice but most importantly, we want to change the industry so we can make sure this never, ever happens again. don lemon, when you go to a
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concert, you should not have to risk your life. >> ben crump. ben, i just want to say in the ahmaud arbery case, can you please just give our regards to mrs. cooper-jones. i can't imagine what it's like being in that courtroom and watching that footage and reliving this daily. thank you for what you're doing, and i appreciate it. i'll talk to you soon. >> thanks, brother. the january 6th insurrection, kyle rittenhouse, what happens when people take justice into their own hands? we'll talk about that next. bossx all-in-one... and get back to your rhythm. feel the power. beat the symptoms fast.
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the role of vigilantism a key factor in the trials playing out in wisconsin and in georgia. but what does it have to do with january 6th and the rioters who stormed the capitol? let's get right to it now. cnn political commentator bakari sellers and cnn legal analyst elliot williams both here. good evening to both of you. happy friday. bakari, i want you to look at all the people at the center of these incidents, the january 6th insurrectionists, kyle rittenhouse, the three men charged with ill ckiling ahmaud arberiry. >> what you're seeing is individuals are taking what they believe to be misdeeds in their own hands.
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you had people storm the capitol because they get like government wasn't doing their job. you had people in kenosha or rittenhouse in kenosha allowing his mom to take him across state lines with an ar-15 which still blows my mind because my mom asks me if i have mcdonald's money. so i can't even imagine if she would take me across state lines with an ar-15, but that's a whole other story about where's his father. and because government was not doing their job. in georgia, you had individuals who thought ahmaud arbery was breaking into homes and trespassing. so it's this through line where white men feel as if they have to take this vigilantism into their own hands. this is what happens, bloodshed. >> isn't it similar -- well, we'll get to january 6th because it's the same thing. government's not doing its job. then we've got to take back our country. there's a whole thing there. so what is it about justice in this country today, elliot where
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these people think that justice is to take matters into their own hands? >> right, and just to underscore what bakari said about the rittenhouse trial, which is sort of the hot one right now, it's really remarkable that someone would, number one, procure a firearm that's unlawful under wisconsin law, cross state lines, if he did not intend to agitate and certainly not just to protect himself but to sort of cause trouble. so it is a pretty remarkable state of people feeling empowered, right? january 6th is a little bit different because it's tied into this political question of a president that started going back to frankly june 20th, 2020, by my count, undermining faith in elections. it can't surprise anyone that then you reach january s6th, thn people are taking arms against the government because they believe their cause is just because they were fed a diet of lies that just sunk in.
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so, yes, this is all a question of empowerment, misunderstanding of the law, and the entitlement to harm other people. anyway, yeah, there it is. >> bakari, i want you to listen to this. this is from court today. elliot is just like, i'm done. this is from court today from defense attorney jason sheffield, who represents travis mcmichael in the killing of ahmaud arbery. here it is. >> it appears that the evidence in this case is overwhelming about one thing and one thing in particular. this case is not about a lynching. this case is not about racism or racist motives. this is just a neighborhood and some people trying to do the best they could to stop the crime in the neighborhood. >> okay. it screams privilege to me, but what do you say? >> as a fellow lawyer, i mean that is -- i mean that's the best b.s. you can do. i mean i hope he's getting paid top dollar for that one. look, this is -- what we're talking about, and just so every
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viewer understands, is this is a privilege that elliot, that don, that bakari cannot get away with in this country. and i think that the resentment -- and i said this earlier today and bears repeating. i think some of the resentment that all of us feel is the fact that we've seen individuals who look like us succumb to the inability for the country to give people who look like us grace. and when we see people be able to flaunt the system, to abuse the system, to finagle the system or bamboozle the system where our brothers and sisters are not able to even get the grace that this system is supposed to allow us, that's what bothers us the most. and i've always said i think all of these cases bring to mind kalief browder. i think about him often n a rikers prison, in solitary confinement, hangs himself for
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stealing a backpack. it's obscene. so that is the frustration in this country that everybody doesn't understand. >> don, just to add one additional point about whether the arbery case is about race, there's at least an allegation in the case that one of the defendants uses an ethnic slur after arbery is dead on the ground. so this whole idea of this is just people keeping their neighborhood safe, look, i want to keep my neighborhood safe too. but, you know, this whole idea that race is divorced from it makes literally no sense. >> elliot, they were driving a truck with a confederate flag on the front. are we saying that's -- >> all of the above. b bakari, we know what the n-word means, and there's at least this question that he uses it when the guy is lying, bleeding out on the ground. so this whole idea that you can totally separate everything from race merely because it's people
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seeking to protect property or defend the neighborhood just makes no sense. again, it's just an allegation, i want to be clear. but that's a pretty significant one, don. >> what is the distinction between patriotism or keeping your community safe versus just straight-up vigilantism? because i think it's a -- you know, keeping the neighborhood safe seems to be like keeping those people out or from exercising whatever right that they have, or i'm just, you know -- >> we have a system of laws in the country. there are times where you can defend yourself. it's going to vary from state to state when you can use force to defend your property. but you don't have a right in every state anywhere in the country to merely cross state lines to kill people. that's just vigilantism. it's not a blanket license for violence. >> gotcha. i got ten seconds only, bakari, please. >> there's a difference between
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patriotism and prejudice. >> right. >> people in this country, they confuse the two so often, and it's not a new concept. but this privilege that people are putting forward is not patriotism. elliott, don, and myself, we're just as patriotic as anyone else. we just feel like nothing is irreparable about this country. we just want to re-imagine what she looks like and that's the fundamental problem that we're having from -- it's a long story, but we'll talk about it. >> thank you both. i appreciate it. good to see you. thank you. so he makes inappropriate jokes. he plays "jeopardy!" with the jurors, yells at the attorney, and now people are questioning if he is the right person to lead the court. we're going to look at the judge in charge of the rittenhouse trial. that's next. just the soothing vicks' vapor for the whole family. introducing new vicks vapostick. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even a term policy - for an immediate cash payment. call coventry direct to learn more. we thought
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the brand i trust is qunol. closing arguments set for monday in the kyle rittenhouse homicide trial, and then jurors begin deliberations. wisconsin's governor has put 500 national guard on standby for the verdict. the high-profile case has gained national attention and so has the judge. here's cnn's kyung lah. >> it makes no sense, you're out of luck. >> reporter: kenosha county circuit court judge bruce schroeder as animated today -- >> i would not say that about this law. >> reporter: as he's been throughout the high-profile murder trial of kyle rittenhouse. wisconsi wisconsin's longest serving -- connecting with the jurors with
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"jeopardy!" >> who is florence griffith joyner. >> reporter: trying to keep the mood light with jokes that sometimes fail, like this culturally insensitive remark. >> i hope the asian food isn't on one of those boats in long beach harbor. >> reporter: but doesn't hold back when crossed. >> the court left the door open. >> for me, not for you. you should have come and asked. don't get brazen with me. >> i've been yelled at. i mean if you push the line, you will get him yelling at you. if judge schroeder's yelling at you, you know you're still in the game. you're not going to get a mistrial. >> reporter: defense attorney john anthony ward says he's argued before judge schroeder hundreds if not thousands of times in nearly four decades of practice. >> many a defendant have entered a plea bargain thinking they were going to get probation to
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end up in prison, totally to their shock. >> reporter: schroeder's every word, decision, and behavior has come under intense scrutiny in this two-week trial. schroeder has not allowed attorneys to call the three men shot by rittenhouse victims, but could be described as looters or rio rioters. but schroeder is no stranger to the spotlight. >> one of the things that i've read over and over and over again is about how i messed up the state against jensen case, which is now pending downstairs. actually, i had it 100% correct in the first place. >> reporter: schroeder was the judge in an unusual condition of parole for a woman convicted of shoplifting at the pleasant prairie outlet law. schroeder ruled the woman had to tell any store that sells goods
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that she walked into that she had been convicted of shoplifting. earlier this year, the wisconsin state court of appeals, saying schroeder's ruling falls into the category of shaming. in the rittenhouse trial, where national politics and race are clashing, even the judge's ring tone is being watched. that's "god bless the usa" by lee greenwood, one of donald trump's rally songs. >> this judge is apolitical. if you try to define judge schroeder on the basis of politics, you're going to get lost. what's important to him is if the person's guilty, that he's found guilty, and if he's not guilty, that he's found not guilty. >> reporter: all of this interest surrounding the judge is going to shift to the jury. closing arguments are scheduled to begin on monday. don. >> kyung lah, thank you. and thank you for watching. our coverage continues.
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live from cnn world headquarters in atlanta, welcome to all of you watching in the united states, canada, and the around. i'm kim brunhuber. criminal tempt of congress sending a message to others who could be called before the committee investigating the capitol riot. global works are hoping to strike a deal at climate 26. and free britney. she's regained control of her money an


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