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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  November 15, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PST

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streets and in people's homes. the source of this video is unclear but aswan is a tourist center loecated on the banks of the nile. now, here they are, completely flooded out. the fat-tail scorpions are about three to four inches long. among the deadliest in the world, killing within minutes. right now, three people are reported dead. egyptian officials deny initial-state media reports that the deaths are from the scorpions. thanks for joining us. anderson starts now. good evening. kyle rittenhouse's fate is now in the hands of a jury. jurors got the case just a short time ago, having heard closing arguments from both sides. a rebuttal from the prosecution and instructions from the judge. for more on all of it, i want to go straight to cnn omar jimenez in kenosha, wisconsin. so what are the takeaways now? >> for starters, both the prosecution and defense spoke for more than two hours, each,
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at points jurors were riveted. at other points, they had to turn away because of the graphic images they were being shown. bottom line, this was the last chance for either side to sway these jurors with their arguments. the prosecution painted ri rittenhouse as an active shooter that night who did not have to kill but did. while the defense painted him as anything but. doing what he needed to do to survive. >> in this entire sequence of events, from the shooting of jacob blake on sunday, august 23rd, 2020, all the way after that, everything this community went through, the only person who shot and killed anyone was the defendant. >> reporter: after about two weeks, the prosecution and the defense of kyle rittenhouse had one last chance to leave an impression on the jury. >> you cannot claim self-defense against a danger you create. >> reporter: at one point during closing arguments, the prosecution even demonstrates a moment where they say rittenhouse pointed his weapon
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prior to the fateful chase that ended in the killing of joseph rosenbaum. even pointing out that, in the aftermath, people believed rittenhouse could have been an active shooter, and that the crowd had a right to defend itself that night. >> how are we supposed to know where he is going next? and i got to stop here for a moment, and highlight the hypocrisy of the defense because according to the defense, if someone has a gun, they're a threat. if someone points a gun, they're a threat. there is only one exception to that. the defendant. by their logic, he gets to run around with a gun all night. but oh, we're not supposed to take him as a threat. doesn't work that way. there is no exception in the law for kyle rittenhouse. >> garbage. just like his case. >> reporter: the defense doubled down on its argument this was self-defense. >> the state wants to call my client an active shooter. kyle was not an active shooter. that is a buzz word that the state wants to latch onto because it excuses the actions of that mob.
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he runs two blocks, from 63rd to 61st without firing his weapon. >> reporter: attorney mark richards argued rittenhouse did what he did because he had to, especially in regards to joseph rosenbaum. the first of the two killed that night. >> kyle shot joseph rosenbaum to stop a threat to his person. and i'm glad he shot him because if joseph rosenbaum had got that gun, i don't, for a minute, believe he wouldn't have used it against somebody else. he was irrational and crazy. m my client didn't shoot at anyone until he was chased and cornered. >> reporter: but during rebuttal, the prosecution argued there were plenty of steps rittenhouse could have taken before shooting rosenbaum. >> no one is saying that mr. rosenbaum should have chased mr. rittenhouse. no one is saying that mr. rittenhouse did not have a right to defend himself. this case is about the right to
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use deadly force. hit him, kick him, knee him. anything else. and mr. rosenbaum and mr. rittenhouse are alive. >> reporter: in total, rittenhouse faced six charges until the misdemeanor of a minor in possession of a weapon was dismissed early in the day. over the gun not being long enough, under wisconsin statutes to be considered illegal in the hands of a minor. but rittenhouse still faces five felony charges. all of which, he pleaded not guilty to. the most serious comes from the shooting and killing of anthony huber. second of two people killed that night. rittenhouse faces first-degree intentional homicide but the lesser offenses of second-degree intentional homicide or first-degree reckless homicide could also be considered. those offenses could be considered if the jury is not satisfied of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt on the original charge. in regards to the shooting of gaige grosskreutz, who survived after being shot, rittenhouse is charged with attempted first-degree intentional homicide with the use of a dangerous weapon. the judge said the jury could
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consider the lesser offenses of attempted second-degree intentional homicide and first-degree recklessly endangering safety. on top of those two charges, he also faces two counts of recklessly endangering safety tied to the shootings, either, at or near two people who were not killed and first-degree reckless homicide for the killing of joseph rosenbaum. the jurors now get to decide the fate of kyle rittenhouse over a year after he killed two people and wounded a third. >> members of the jury, the time has now come when the great burden of reaching a just, fair, and conscientious decision in this case will be placed wholly with you, jurors. >> omar, in terms of jury instructions and deliberations, will -- when they will actually begin, what's the latest? >> yeah, anderson. so, they will be following closely these instructions hammered out by the prosecution, the defense, and the judge. and there were two significant subjects that could make the difference in this case.
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one revolves around self-defense, which these instructions critically say that rittenhouse could use deadly force only to prevent imminent death or great-bodily harm to himself. but also, in terms of provocation, these instructions say that a person who provokes an attack can't use or threaten force and self-defense until he has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape death o or bodily harm. those will be among the two major topics they will be looking at when we reconvene in the morning and when these 12 final jurors will be selected to be the ones that deliberate and, more significantly, decide the fate of kyle rittenhouse. >> omar jimenez, appreciate it. thank you. joining us now, harvard law school senior lecturer, nancy gertner. and ron johnson, former captain of missouri highway patrol. he was appointed in the wake of unrest there to coordinate law enforcement agencies in ferguson. judge gertner, what do you make of the closing arguments from both the prosecution and defense? >> well, i was sort of struck by things people haven't sort of
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identified before. in the -- in the defense, it was explicitly political. at one point issue he said literally that the government was just charging the first white supremacist that he could find. only, rittenhouse wasn't a white sp supremacist. he said that -- that the attack on some of the witnesses for being politically biased and that he said their viewpoints are kind of like my viewpoints. he was making this explicitly political. and he was making it personal. at one point, he talked about the prosecutor being whiny. and then, there was obviously the -- the call to what i have in other settings talked about vigilanteism. that has stopped them from wreaking havoc in kenosha like they had done the night before. those were the things that i start were sort of stunning. and then, in addition, his role, the defense's role was to show that in the chaos, rittenhouse had no choice. the defense -- i mean, the prosecution was saying this kid can't get a pass and wanted to slow down the action. and i thought that was
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particularly impressive was particularly slowing down the action with respect to rosenbaum. rosenbaum was stopped by the first shot. and therefore, there was no need for two, three, and four. but ultimately, the prosecution has the burden of proof here and it's hard to know what the themes i've just described how effective they'll be and particularly the judge's affect throughout the trial, it's hard to know. >> paul, do you believe prosecution made up any ground today? you know, late tonight, there was reporting from cnn that during the prosecution's rebuttal, some jurors were seen fidgeting. at least one appeared to be struggling to stay awake. i don't know what, if anything, can be read into that. >> i didn't think they gained a lot from the rebuttal case that -- that was put in. i thought that earlier in the day, um, they had presented really a compelling case against the defendant. and what struck me throughout the whole day is you had these two starkly different pictures of what happened that night.
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from the defense standpoint, it was like nightmare in elm street. you know, every time he turned a corner, there were people trying to attack him. coming out of the corners, coming out of the darkness. whereas, the prosecutor was saying they were all heroes trying to stop an active shooter. in the end, i think the jury is going to see the nightmare on elm street scenario and i say that because when they tried to establish provocation, they relied on some pretty shaky evidence. this picture that had been blown up and over-pixilated. but in the end, even if you saw him pointing a gun in that picture, there is no proof that rosenbaum was aware of that and that rosenbaum, because of that provocation, started chasing him. so, i don't see where they are going with that. it seems to me that that doesn't say he is deprived of his right to self-defense. so then, you are left with analyzing each encounter and with respect to, as judge gertner was just talking about,
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the shots -- number of shots that hit rosenbaum -- those shots were all fired, i understand, in under a second. >> yeah. >> so he was literally flying through the air when most of those shots were fired. so i don't think the number of shots adds up to much. >> captain johnson, if rittenhouse is acquitted, do you think law enforcement should be concerned about more armed people showing up to future, you know, events or demonstrations that they think may turn into -- to violence? >> i think we will have to put some rules in place and we will have to talk with our politicians and put some laws in place. we ran into this in 2014. we had a right-wing group that came out there armed with weapons. and what -- it was unnecessary, and it actually was inflammatory toward bringing peace to the protest. >> judge gertner, i mean, it -- this boiling down between provocation and self-defense. i'm still confused by this. i mean, just because he is there with a gun and has no business being there. he's not trained.
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he is just a guy who wanted to be there, and clearly enjoyed being there. you know, high-fiving the -- or at least waving to the police. and, you know, he certainly seem today take some encouragement from the other people he was -- he was around. but just 'cause he's there, and maybe it is provocative to some people, does that justify shooting three people? >> well, no. i mean, the -- the point of the provocation. i think it was more than whether rosenbaum saw the gun. i mean, the notion is this kid is walking around with an ar-15. the prosecution has to walk a very thin line because there are a lot of people who thought, you know, he has a right to do that so what's the point? but certainly, the testimony had been that if he had gone from protecting property to, suddenly, walking in the middle of the street. and it was inconsistent with what he said he was doing. so, he had put himself in a -- in a situation where he was provocative. and the argument at that point is that he then loses his right
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to self-defense. i think the more substantial argument will be whether or not he -- with respect to one of the people he shot, he was hit with a skateboard. skateboard and ar-15. that's not -- he is not matching the force that he is receiving with -- with the same amount of force. and with respect to rosenbaum, there was great -- there was testimony and the prosecutor went on and on about it, about rosenbaum's height. that, you know, he seemed like a crazy person and he was unreunarmed. so i mean, i think it really depends upon whether the jury walks away with scared kid, chaotic night, he did what he had to do or he walks away with tissue -- who was essentially asserting himself into a situation he didn't belong. >> someone can look at someone running full force at somebody on the ground with a skateboard and swinging at their head as a potentially -- i mean, that's potentially lethal, isn't it?
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>> yeah, it is potentially lethal because were, he is not hitting him with the broad side of the skateboard. he was using the skinny side. itself almost like a knife hitting his neck and he was on the ground and there were other members of the crowd sort of coming in close to him at that period of time. all of that seemed to add up to a very, very serious threat. the thing that impressed me more than anything else during the defense' presentation, the final presentation. when they slowed down the film. of course, you see how the film, depending upon how you slow it down, depicts very, very different things. but every time he fired at a person, that person was approaching him and aggressively approaching him. he didn't fire at anybody else who was just standing around or who backed off. um, so it looked like he was evaluating a threat before he fired. so, i think when the jury steps back and looks at those -- all of those filmed encounters -- um, that there is adequate ground for a not-guilty finding.
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now, bear in mind. listen, he's a vigilante and if you come into this case saying we have to send a message that we're -- we're not going to tolerate this kind of behavior. he loses. and he'll go to jail. but jury's aren't supposed to do that. they are supposed to look at each encounter, and decide whether self-defense occurred and a legitimate self-defense occurred so we will he have to see how the jury reacts to the evidence. >> you know, when -- when you have seen folks show up with an agenda and a weapon to a demonstration, what -- what is the -- what usually happens? i mean, you've said it's caused tensions in the past? >> well, you try to separate them from the crowd and i think that's why it's important, when we have these protests, that law enforcement embeds themself within the protest, not only to engage with the protestors but when they see subjects like this who are interjecting themselves inappropriately, that they can remove them from the situation. >> and, captain johnson, are you
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concerned about, you know, unrest or demonstrations when this verdict comes down? >> i think they are preparing for that. i think depend on what the verdict is, i think we could see some of our protestors take the streets. because they -- many of those people were out there for change. their right to protest, speak their voice and so i think we will see some. i don't know if we will see it across our country, like we have seen in the past with some -- some other protests. >> ron johnson, appreciate you being with us. judge gertner, thank you so much. paul callan, as well. coming up next, steve bannon's attempt to make his prosecution for defying a congressional subpoena seem more like persecution at the hands of what he is now saying is a politically-motivated justice department. author josh green joins us. and later, white house chief of staff ron klain joins us on today's infrastructure bill victory. but also, the president's declining poll numbers and rising inflation. it made me feel like i was trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of people
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steve bannon, one of the organizers connected to the events of january 6th made his first court appearance today on contempt of congress charges. prosecutors did not ask to hold him until trial. he agreed to hand over his passport, check in weekly, and notify the court of any travel outside the jurisdiction. he will be arraigned on thursday. bannon's new attorney, today, said his client defied the advice of the attorney at the time. as for bannon, today, he spoke outside the court. >> this is going to be the misdemeanor from hell for merrick garland, nancy pelosi, and joe biden. joe biden ordered merrick garland to prosecute me from the white house lawn when he got off marine one and we are going to do -- we are going to go on the offense. if the administrative state wants to take me on, bring it. >> keeping him honest, president biden did not order the attorney general to prosecute bannon or anyone by name. he made remarks that bannon seems to be referring to.
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the president was asked by cnn's kaitlan collins about people who defy house select committee subpoenas. the president said the committee should, quote, hold them accountable. when she asked if they should be prosecuted by the justice department, the president replied, i do, yes. the president later walked those comments back. cnn chief legal analyst, jeffrey toobin. also, josh green, author of devil's bargain, steve bannon, donald trump, the storming of the presidency. jeff, i mean, arka, it was inappropriate as the president is later said to have made those comments at all. it was the kind of thing the former president would have done, and biden should be criticized for saying that. i am wondering what you made of what steve bannon said? >> well, you know, he is going to try to turn this into theater. the chicago seven of the right, as opposed to the left. but, you know, he had -- he had a real break, already in this case, which is the judge in this case. the judge assigned by random lottery is a judge nichols who is not only a trump appointee. but someone who, when he was a
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lawyer in the george w. bush justice department, argued a big executive privilege claim arguing for an expansion of executive privilege when harriet meyers, the white house counsel, was subpoenaed by congress. that case, ultimately, settled. but this is a judge who at least is very much aware of the idea that executive privilege should be expansive. we will see whether that carries over -- >> so this is not -- i mean, just because he defied this -- this subpoena, it doesn't necessarily mean -- i mean, he could still win this? >> absolutely because the defense in this case is i was caught between a rock and a hard place. i have an order from one president that -- not to testify. and i have a directive from congress to testify. now, the problem with his position is that there is lots to testify about that is not related to executive privilege at all. he was not a government employee, and frankly the scope of executive privilege has never
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been precisely defined. and one area the courts have said is not covered by executive privilege is discussion of wrongdoing. and if the court finds that discussions of wrongdoing are involved here, um, he could lose. >> josh, is this a great day for -- for bannon? i mean, is this exactly -- isn't this kind of exactly what he wants? he stopped -- i am going to show this to our viewers -- he stopped even to address a camera for his i guess podcasting audience or his -- his followers. i just want to play what he said. or not. >> i just want to say -- tell everybody live stream, get it right now, everybody watching in the war room. we're here today. i don't want anybody to take their eye off the ball what we do every day. okay? we got the hispanics on our side, african-americans coming on our side. we are taking down the biden regime. >> so because this like the
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greatest day of his life? >> this is exactly what steve bannon wants. a platform for self-aggrandizement. i mean, he did everything there but try to sell you a set of steak knives, right? >> or have you invest in the border wall. >> i thought they'd shut that one down, but maybe not. >> probably. >> but, look, it's exactly what bannon wants. it is a platform for him to demonstrate, you know, his loyalty to trump. to enhance his own power in the maga circle, and to try and, um, you know, continue the stream of misinformation that you get listening to his podcast about how, you know, biden supposedly stole the 2020 election. and bannon is being persecuted. it all plays into this larger story and if you talk to bannon and talk to people around him, they really don't think that there is going to be a price to pay for this. either, he will win an executive privilege case. or this will drag on so long that republicans, if they win back the house of representatives next november will shut down the investigation. but at least for now, this is exactly what bannon is -- is -- is wanting and hoping for and
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you saw that in the video you showed. >> this is also a misdemeanor. i mean this is not -- >> two misdemeanors. they'll rarely go to trial in federal court. and just on the subject of timing. i mean, timing is so important here and that's why thursday's arraignment could actually be very interesting and important because that's when you will start to see a schedule be set. if the judge says, look, well, we'll have motions in -- in january. and maybe, we will have a trial date if april. which under normal circumstances, would be a fairly common schedule. that's death for this committee because this -- this committee is not going to be in existence much past the summer because that's when the campaign season starts. so, whether judge nichols sets an aggressive schedule or not is really going to determine how much this case matters at all or whether it's just theater. >> josh, there's -- um, there is new audio of the former president talking to abc's jonathan carl about an important conversation president trump had
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with then-vice president pence the morning of january 6th. i want to play that. >> there was a report -- excuse my language, not mine it was in the report -- you talk today him that morning and you said you can be a patriot or you can be a [ bleep ]. did you really say that or is that -- is that incorrect? >> i wouldn't dispute it. >> josh, he made the point that steve bannon is essentially casting himself as the anti-pence and making this very public display to the former president. do you think bannon is actually willing to go to jail for the former president? >> you know, i don't. i don't think he is actually willing to go to jail but i also don't think that he thinks he's going to have to. you know, bannon's calculus here, which has been borne out just in the last 24 hours, is that he could use this kind of public display of fealty to trump which, by the way, didn't begin with today's perp walk and it didn't start on january 6th. this has been going on for three years, ever since bannon got fired from the white house. you know, three years ago, trump essentially excommunicated him. >> didn't he call him sloppy
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steve? >> if you want to see how well bannon's strategy worked, trump put out a statement yesterday praising steve bannon saying quote this country has never done to anyone what they have done to steve bannon. so bannon here has an audience of one and that audience is donald trump and he clearly likes what he sees from bannon. >> wow. the former president of the united states is saying that this is the greatest injustice that has ever been committed on any american citizen. >> right because it's not just one misdemeanor, it's two misdemeanors. that's a pretty big deal. >> yeah. josh green, thank you. jeff tunen as well. up next, it's actually infrastructure week for real. key part of president biden's agenda getting his signature at the white house. his approval ratings, though, as you know, not good. we will talk about both and more with the white house chief of staff.
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historic day at the white house. president biden signing the $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill this afternoon into law. crucial part of his agenda. also, a rare moment with both democrats and some republicans at the ceremony. the package includes, among other things, money for roads and bridge, train, climate change, and a whole host of other things you see there. at today's ceremony, president biden said the bill will also ease supply-chain issues. >> the bipartisan law will modernize our ports, our airports, our freight rail to make it easy for companies to
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get goods to market, reduce supply chain bottlenecks as we are experiencing now. and lower cost for you and your family. >> so big day for the president's agenda i spoke about it just before air time with white house chief of staff ron klain. >> mr. klain, the bipartisan group of lawmakers who supported the group of infrastructure bill. um but the latest abc news "washington post" poll shows only 41% of americans approve of the way the president is doing the job. only 35% believe he has estab accomplished much overall. how do you reconcile those numbers? >> first of all, i think while the poll was taken after the bill was passed, it was before bill was signed. and certainly, before the bill was implemented dh starts tomorrow morning. so i understand why the american people are in a show me, don't tell me mode. the pandemic has gone on a long time. our economic struggles have gone on for a long time. we have made a lot of progress on both those problems here at the white house so far but the public wants more progress. they want it more quickly. i am glad the congress passed
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this bill last week. now, it's signed. now, it can go into law. the president will take the case on the road. look, we passed this bill not to change polls but to change the country. and i think as the country sees the improvement this bill will bring -- better roads, better bridges, internet for everyone, clean-drinking water for everyone, historic investment in mass transit and rail. i think the results will speak for themselves. >> in the same poll, 48% of americans blame the president for the current inflation rate which is the highest in 30 years. what does the administration have to try and -- is there anything you are planning to try and ease inflation? does -- and -- and you did seem to downplay the threat of it back in april. the white house was saying it would only rise moderately due to what they called tefrmmporar factors. >> i think the bill we signed is one step on combatting inflation. i was pleased to hear senator rob portman -- a republican today at the white house -- validate this bill will help abate inflation. equally importantly -- maybe
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more importantly, the build back better bill that the house is supposed to consider this week -- 17 nobel prize winning economists have said it will ease inflationary pressures and while that is a bunch of economic talk. i can make it even simpler. that bill when it passes will lower prescription drug prices. it will lower cost of childcare. it will lower the cost of elder care. it will cut taxes for middle-cass families. those are the kind of bottom-line economic issues about what people pay for some of their most important and largest expenses that we have a plan before congress this week that will help deal with those high cost. >> yeah, when we spoke this past august, you said you hoped to get them to his desk in september. obviously, over the finish line today. do you have the votes, though, for the build back better bill? i mean, you control, obviously, both the white house and both chambers of congress. but there seems to be a lot of mistrust within the democratic party. do you have the votes? >> well, we showed we have the votes on the infrastructure bill and i think we'll show this week
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we will have the votes on the build back better bill. look i understand these things always take longer than they should or than you think you should but america waited 50 years for the road investments we made today. 70 years for the kinds of investments in rail that we made today. and so, yeah, it took a month or two longer than we wanted it to. >> what about senator manchin? >> well, i will let senator manchin speak for himself. >> do you know if he is on board? >> i will let senator manchin speak for himself. i am not going to speak for him what i know is he has played a key role in advising us, and talking to the president many times about the framework for the build back better bill. he says his number one concern is inflation. we have a concrete plan in that bill to lower the costs that face most americans. it's fully-paid for, without raising the deficit, without raising taxes a penny on people who make less than $400,000 a year. >> i want to ask about steve bannon as he left federal court today, he claimed president biden ordered attorney general garland to prosecute him.
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that was probably a reference to the president responding to a question of whether those who defy a subpoena should be prosecuted by saying, quote, i do yes, which the president then walked back. um, how concerned is the white house about steve bannon, other allies of the former president, seriously delaying or even derailing the work of the january-6th committee? >> well, i want to be clear. president gave no direction to the justice department in taking its action. president wasn't even informed in advance that the justice department had taken this action. this was a decision made independently by the department, by the attorney general in his own judgment. so, let's just make -- be clear about that, notwithstanding what steve bannon said today. i am going to let the law enforcement matters be handled by the justice department and that is at way it should be. in a well-functioning administration, an administration that respects the rule of law. >> cnn vorreporting some in the west wing are worn out by disfunction and lack of focus from vice president harris and her staff. the vice president, her
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loyalists say they are frustrated according to the reporting, as well as -- as feel she is being sidelined. i am wondering what you make of that report. can you say tonight whether there is total agreement inside the white house about the vice president's portfolio? >> there is. she is doing a magnificent job. by the way, in that report, i am quoted as saying what i believe, which is that there is no vice president i have seen that's gotten off to a faster start than vice president harris. she is doing amazing job for the president. i had the pleasure/honor of being with her the friday night we passed this infrastructure bill in the house of representatives. she was on the phone, working the phones. delivering votes. she is a big part of the reason why we had this bill signing today. >> her -- her poll numbers seem even lower than the president's. >> well, again, anderson, polls go up. polls go down. what i know is she is delivering for the mariannamerican people. she helped us deliver on this infrastructure bill. she went over to france and spent a week over there helping to repair and strengthen our alliance with america's oldest ally. she is delivering for the american people every day.
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she is doing a fantastic job, whether it's on domestic matters or international matters. i am delighted to be her next-door neighbor in the west wing. have a chance to talk with her almost every day. she's in the white house. and i can tell you, she is doing a fan -- phenomenal job as vice president. >> ron klain, appreciate your time. thank you. >> thanks, anderson. more ahead including the top house republican after days of silence weighing in on the animated video congressman paul gosar put out depicting him murdering a colleague, threatening the president. we will have congressman kevin mccarthy finally came up with and what it says about the party he leads, next.
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house minority leader kevin mccarthy is finally commenting publicly on the video his republican colleague congressman paul gosar posted last week on twitter. video was a photo shopped anime depicting killing alexandria ocasio-cortez and swinging a sword at president joe biden. what may be even more surprising than the video was mccarthy didn't directly condemn it. instead, he told cnn today that he spoke to gosar last week and gosar had deleted the tweet after their conversation. chief political correspondent, co-anchor of state of the union, dana bash, joins us now. do you think this -- i mean, is this emblematic of just the hold that the former president still has on the party?
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>> yes. there's no question about it. that, the minority leader did finally say, under questioning by our cnn colleague, that he spoke to paul gosar. but the fact that he didn't condemn it -- and gosar's own family, anderson, has done so. they're strange, to be fair. >> yeah. they have been criticizing him for quite a while. >> yeah. yeah. and they don't like the kind -- the kind of rhetoric that he uses. and the -- the reality is that we are in a world where that kind of messaging, that kind of -- that kind of video is incredibly dangerous. we know that because of so many tragic examples of that. and in particular, with somebody like alexandria ocasio-cortez, she is obviously beloved by progressives. but already, vilified and has met -- has -- has had, historically, a lot of threats against her. so, the fact that this wasn't
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condemned in a very aggressive way is -- is quite telling. for what -- for the fact that he didn't say it as much as what he did say. >> it's also interesting that he only said it because of questioning as -- as you said by -- by, you know, by -- by us. and that -- that he remained silent, not even saying last week that he had called him to take it down. you spoke with former-new jersey governor chris christie for your special report "being chris christie" which comes on at 10:00 tonight. he clearly thinks the republican party needs to move past the former president. >> that's right, and we talked about this kind of behavior from and among republicans, including the leaders here in washington, vis-a-vis donald trump. listen to a clip about that. >> a lot of your fellow republicans, particularly in washington -- they denounced the insurrection after january 6th. and they have either changed their tune since then. or they've just clammed up.
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is that a mistake? >> well, sure it is. everyone's got -- but -- but look. everybody's accountable for their own statements and their own conduct. >> are they scared of donald trump? >> oh, i'm -- i'm confident some of them are. um, i'm -- some of them -- look, i think hey fall into a number of categories. some of them believe him. they want to believe it. some of them are scared of him. some of them just don't want to talk about it. they want it to just go away. i think there are lots of republicans who believe exactly what i believe. but no one's saying it to them. the only voice they're hearing right now, you know, are voices that say that the election was stolen. and that's just not true. so, you need other voices to speak out. you know, so i'm -- i'm doing it. >> and, anderson, he's pretty clear that he is trying to give his republican colleagues, particularly here in washington,
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some cover in their criticism of the former president on the idea of the election in 2020 being stolen. saying it was not. that is what his book says in a very clear, detailed way. really, debunking the so-called evidence that the former president has. having said that, he -- chris christie -- is not at all upset about the fact -- he doesn't regret the fact that he voted, not once but twice for the former president and helped him. he said he wouldn't change that. so it's very complicated when it comes to someone like him. but he is trying to walk that fine line that so many -- so many republicans are. his is a little bit different because they have had a 20-year friendship. >> dana bash, special report tonight 10:00 p.m. eastern time, being chris christie. second episode in dana's being series, tonight 10:00 p.m. here on cnn. up next, big victory for
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sandy hook families in their battle against the lies by conspiracy spreader, alex jones. woman: i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer ♪ ♪ yeah i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin, yeah that's all me. ♪ ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin that's my new plan. ♪ ♪ nothing is everything. ♪ woman: keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. most who achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months had lasting clearance through 1 year. in another study, most people had 90% clearer skin at 3 years.
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major legal victory for eight connecticut families and a first responders who sued alex jones why for years jones spread the despicable story that the 2012 massacre at sandy hook elementary school where six adults and 20 chirp were killed was staged. here are the faces of victims, young children, teachers and the principal. they were murdered. we remember them. today a judge ruled that jones is libel because he repeatedly refused to hand over records. a jury will decide how much he has to pay in damages. in september he was defaulted in texas for failing to turn over
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documents in a similar case. joining us now attorney chris maddy who represents the defendants in the lawsuit. can you explain what liability by default means? >> thank you for having me on, anderson. today what the connecticut supreme court determined was that because alex jones had engaged in a long series of misconduct in discovery abuses he prevented the plaintiffs from getting a fair hearing, the evidence and because of that forfeited the right to present evidence in the case. and as a result of that the allegations against him are considered proven and liable which include defamation, violations of connecticut's unfair trade act, distress and the question for the jury will be the extent to which the families that we're honored to represent were harmed by his conduct. >> how can you actually collect
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from him? does he have assets? >> well, you know, this case is not really about money. it is about accountability. and so our goal and when we get in front of that jury is to show them how devastating his conduct has become. now we have avenues to investigate his assets and his resources. but what's most important is that we get our day in court and that we expose alebs jones for what he is. >> jones and his attorneys had years to turn over documents. do you have a sense of why they just chose not to at all? was it to drag it out longer in some way or assume he was going to lose? >> i think the court made the point today that the evidence that he deliberately withheld was precisely the evidence to show that he engages in outrageous inflammatory and dishonest rhetoric to drive
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traffic to the website to ben benefit financially. he withheld data about the company finances. precisely the type of evidence that would expose the business model and why he does the things he does. we think it's a calculated determine nation to defy the court's orders and made false representations about the evidence and when the court prevented him from succeeding he declined to turn it of. i think he preferred default to having the truth about his business exposed in court. >> i certainly understand that for the families it is not about money. it is about stopping this person from saying this and showing the world what a fraud he is and what he's been saying. but to stop him for permanent
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one certainly stopping him and getting the finances would obviously be helpful in that regard. is there law -- i mean, someone can't be forced to pay -- what is the law allowing you to do? >> the first step is to get in front of the jury an ento get a judgment and we expect that a connecticut jury is going to find mr. jones's conduct and the harm caused to the families to be extensive and we expect that that verdict will reflect that. now, we will then go about collecting that verdict. and we have legal resources available to us to do that. it is not uncommon for defendants who are exposed in this way to do things to hide their assets. i'm not saying that's what mr. jones is doing but we have remedies for that. >> chris mattei i appreciate your time tonight and a big
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night for families going through a nightmare over this. appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you. >> and the families are in our thoughts tonight. we'll be right back. unlimited cashback match... only from discover. bipolar depression. it made me feel like i was trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place... ...and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts.
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♪not a sign of a cloud passing by♪ ♪if my heart won't behave in the usual way♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list event. the news continues. let's hand it orr to chris for "cuomo prime time." chris? >> thank you. get me in the center of the frame why this is an important night. ellie's the director. everybody is finally back. it's been over a year. my ep as he says it's been one year and eight months almost to the day since we were in this studio. and for you it may matter, it may not. for us this is a big sign that things are getting back to normal. literally i have dreamed about being able to do the show here again. having the people around. understanding the energy. having guests that you can actually see