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tv   New Day With John Berman and Brianna Keilar  CNN  November 16, 2021 4:00am-5:00am PST

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>> so i think that's the most unique thing about this case, is that you took probably the most -- one of the most tragic events in the recent history of the united states and then you had somebody parade for 5 1/2 years this conspiracy theory that either it didn't happen or there was something behind it or that no one died. he's kind of jumped back and forth a number of times, trying to say he's sorry, trying to say that it never happened, then he said it did happen. he's gone back and forth. it is just for click bait. he takes an extreme story, then he makes it even more extreme. that's just to get, you know, web traffic to his website. >> well yailliam, look, this is outcome, and thank you so much for joining us. of course, as always, we think so much of those families from sandy hook, including the ones you represent. william ogden, thanks. >> absolutely. thank you for having me. >> "new day" continues right
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now. welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. it is tuesday, november 16th. i'm brianna keilar with john berman. a jury in kenosha is about to begin deliberations in the homicide trial of kyle rittenhouse. 18 jurors, ten of them women, eight men, will be parred down to the final 12 this morning in a random drawing that uses a raffle tumbler. yesterday, jurors heard more than five hours of closing arguments. >> both sides really portrayed different versions of the defendant. the prosecution painted rittenhouse as an armed ri vigilante, an active shooter. the defense portrayed him as a frightened teenager trying to defend himself and the community, they said, from a violent mob. joining me is senior analyst elie honig, former federal and state prosecutor. so the audience knows, we've been talking about this, you identified the key moments of the closings.
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i want to start with the very first thing the prosecution said. listen. >> this is a case in which a 17-year-old teenager killed two unarmed men and severely wounded a third person with an ar-15 that did not belong to him. this isn't a situation where he was protecting his home or his family. he killed people after travelling here from antioch, illinois, and staying out after a city wide curfew. >> the very first thing. >> so this was a strong start. when you stand up to address a jury in a murder trial, and you're looking at those, in this case, 18 jurors, what you see is fear. it's a scary thing to be a juror and have to render a verdict in a murder case, but confusion. they've just heard hours, days testimony, evidence, more than any human being can process. your job right there is to cut through the noise, bring them back. it was smart for the prosecution to start there with, a teenager with a very dangerous weapon killed two unarmed men and
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wounded another. however, i think they went off the mark with what followed. they were trying to set the stage for provocation. if the prosecution proves provocation, it overcomes self-defense. it was a weak version. it doesn't mean he was out of place. provocation doesn't mean he was up to no good. you single someone out, say, i'm going to attack that person so they come back at me so i can kill or maim them. things like he was out after curfew, coming from illinois, it was a weak version. >> the first line was a concise argument that they were unable to make in the last few weeks. >> yeah. >> you said another the defense some ground in some cases. listen to this. >> no one is saying that mr. rittenhouse did not have a right to defend himself. punch him in the face. kick him in the testicles. knee him in the face. hit him with your gun. you don't just immediately get to shoot someone. >> again, that's the prosecution
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there. >> yeah. there was an important legal line between a situation where a person may be entitled to use some force and where a person can use lethal force. the prosecution's argument is rittenhouse crossed that line. but the problem is, they made some real damaging admissions there. they admitted kyle rittenhouse was being threatened. he was being attacked, and he was at least entitled to use some force. that's a big concession. and if you look at the kind of force he would have been justified in using, hit him with a gun, pistol-whip? they're giving aue ing up a lot ground. it was a tactical mistake. >> this is the sound from the defense. if you think the prosecution encapsulated their whole case with the first thing they said, the defense encapsulated its whole argument with this. >> every person who was shot was attacking kyle. one with a skateboard. one with his hands. one with his feet.
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one with a gun. hands and feet can cause great bodily harm. >> the other part of that was a lot of that evidence over the case was actually introduced by the prosecution. >> yeah. it hits extra hard when you can point at the prosecution's evidence to make your case. it took the defense a little while to get going. i thought the first hour, 90 minutes or so, were really bland and hard to follow, but that's the strongest part of the defense. when they say, he only ever shot anyone who physically attacked him. now, i don't know that the jury is going to be on board with grouping gun, skateboard, hands and feet. i mean, all of those things are not created equal. so one risk is the jury may say, okay, when threat ened with a gun, skateboard, he could use lethal force. hands and feet, that was debatable. >> feels defense may have been playing to a larger audience than outside the courtroom. there listen to this one. >> this is a political case. we can take politics out of it, as in democrat and republican,
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but the district attorney's office is marching forward with this case because they need somebody to be responsible. >> completely, completely inappropriate to make that remark. the whole point of a jury trial, the judge instructed the jury over and over yesterday, you are to decide this case on the law and the evidence in this courtroom, nothing outside it. to stand up and say that's political, if a prosecutor could do that, you'd have the case dismissed. improper. the other thing, it suggests weakness by the defense. if you're arguing political prosecution, that takes away from the focus on the facts and law. frankly, the law is good for the defense here, and the facts are pretty good. >> does that go up to a line where the judge would have stepped in during the closing? >> the judge had that prerogative. it is rare for a judge to interrupt a closing, but he was right on the line. it would not have surprised me if the judge said, "hold on, that's inappropriate. jury, disregard that." >> interesting he didn't because the judge had been hard on the prosecution for things close to politics during the trial itself. finally, one more for the prosecution here.
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one more argument they made. let's listen. >> it simply cannot be reasonable for someone to be holding an ar-15 semiautomatic rifle and be chased by someone who is unarmed, who is smaller than him, who is shorter than him, and the first thing that you do to defend yourself is you plug four rounds into him. >> so that was on rebuttal. i thought, where was that earlier? i thought that was the clearest statement of the prosecutor's case. this chase with rosenbaum went from a hands and foot chase right into four shots very quickly. i thought it was effective. >> elie honig, thank you. a lot to think about as the jury heads into the room. >> let's talk about this with an attorney to worked to help select the jury in the trial of george zimmerman. robert, good to see you this
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morning. you say this case won't be decided based on race but on guns. can you explain that? >> you bet. good morning, brianna. thank you for having me. on behalf of all your viewers, i want to say you and john are doing a great job as shepherds of "new day." so, listen -- >> thank you. >> -- in terms of this case, it is not about race. it is going to be all about -- in terms of these deliberations, jurors' views on guns. are they gun right jurors, or are they gun control jurors? when you're talking about whether or not the conduct of this teenager -- we have to remember, teenagers don't make really good decisions, especially 17-year-olds -- but for him to go down to what was -- to this part of the country at the time, which was a hotbed of action, for him to go to the fight, i think it depends on your view. is he defending himself in terms of once he put himself in that
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position, or did he put himself in harm's way to be more of a vigilante? so the bottom line, brianna, is what i think this jury is going to be thinking about and discussing in deliberations, is did mr. rittenhouse, teenager rittenhouse, was he acting as a vigi vigilante, or was he acting in self-defense? >> robert, what did you think about the jury instructions? >> yeah. great point. so it's 36 pages. you know, this is why, brianna, they call it jury duty. they don't call it jury fun. they call it jury duty. it is the second highest calling behind military service we have in our country. they're really complicated. it has what is called lesser included offenses in there, that if the jury either acquits the defendant of the murder charges, or if they hang on the murder charge charges, they can't reach a verdict, they can consider these lesser charges. here's my point.
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it is 36 pages of really technical, legal issues that the jury has to go through. i suspect that these deliberations are going to take quite a while. because you have 12 people, collective iq, collective life experience. they're going to have to all work together to see if they can reach a verdict because they know that this case is under a national and international microscope. >> how do you think the jury will view his testimony as they deliberate? >> yeah, if you're referencing when he was crying, it might have helped a lot more. you know, the judge gave -- i call it a time-out. the same kind of thing when you want to get things to kind of calm down and get everybody to be reasonable and thoughtful. so the judge kind of gave the jury a time-out, so to speak, like i would give my son jaden if he did something i wanted him to calm down. so the idea is that the jury really has to look at all the testimony. i think rittenhouse's crying, i
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don't think -- personally, i don't think it was going to be that effective, unless there was testimony that he was remorseful right after he shot three people. you know, if it was consistent with remorse, then it might be effective. unless there was that kind of testimony, i just don't think it is going to be that powerful, brianna, because it seemed like those were tears for him and not for the victims, not for the people that he shot. by the way, i just want to say one other thing about what elie said. i'm sorry, no one ever died as a result of being hit by a skateboard. now, you point a gun at somebody, you have the right to defend yourself. but being kicked or being hit, you don't bring a gun to a fistfight. you don't bring a gun when somebody is hitting you with a skateboard. again, that's what this jury is going to have to figure out and decide, and we're going to have to all be patient because this is going to take a while. >> the defense said -- look, i think they saw that highlighted
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repeatedly, and this is something rittenhouse testified about, he was worried, he said, that his gun would be taken from him and used on him. we're going to see, robert, that's part of it, we'll see if the jury agrees with that. robert, thank you so much for your perfspective on this. >> thank you, brianna. appreciate the invitation to be here. >> of course. just revealed, secret conversations at the cabinet level about removing donald trump from office hours after the insurrection. >> what i want to know is how robert knew about my shepherd outfit. plus, the judge in the trial in the ahmaud arbery killing calling the defense reprehensible for demanding a mistrial because of certain people in the courtroom. the vote in wyoming to kick liz cheney, or to no longer consider liz cheney a member of the republican party. because the tempur-breeze° transfers heat away from your body... you feelel cool, night after night. save up to $500 on select adjustable mattress sets during the tempur-pedic black friday event.
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some new details on the january 6th insurrection from journalist jonathan karl's book discussions about removing then president trump from his post. >> i learned rock solid sourcing on this. i learned that steven mnuchin had a conversation with mike pompeo on the evening of january 6th. and i learned that mnuchin had several conversations about the 25th amendment. further, that mike pompeo actually asked for a legal analysis of the 25th amendment and how it would be -- how it would work. >> let's talk about this bo bombshell with a former prosecutor. these were two of his most loyal
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allies. i wonder just what your reaction is to learning about this. >> well, two things. the first is most obvious, which is, it was an appropriate reaction. i mean, the president on january 6th had kind of lost it. some of us think he'd lost it earlier, but, clearly by then, he'd lost all sense of reality, and he continues to have a lack of that sense today. but the second thing, of course, is that the 25th amendment is really not well suited to problems like trump. it was designed for a president who had a heart attack or who clearly had gone around the bend and was, you know, spouting gibberish out of his mouth. it's a cumbersome process. in a rational world, we would fix the 25th amendment process. it actually provides an opportunity for congress to create a secondary process, and do something about it. but, sadly, i don't think we live in a world where that sort of legislation is possible anymore. >> it's interesting because not
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being able to -- it seems like you should be able to foresee a circumstance where, talking about the 25th amendment or conceiving of it, that if you got to a point as a country where you needed to use it, things were going to be in disarray, right? there may not be agreement in congress to address it and reform it. >> i think that's right. that's why we try and set the process up in advance. but the way it's set up now, the judges of the president's capabilities are his closest political allies, the people he appointed to the cabinet. they're the least likely to be dispassionate in their judgment. whatever else you might think about them, they're there because they owe their job to him. so they're going to put the thumb on his scale. >> let's talk about potentialre 6th. is there enough to charge trump or any ally with sedition? >> sedition is a really hard charge to prove because you have to prove intent to commit violence. trump is a master at hiding the
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ball. kind of like henry ii years ago. will nobody rid me of this troublesome priest? everybody took that as an order to kill thomas beckett, but the king could say, "i didn't actually mean that." trump says, "well, ill nobody sy election?" when they get violent and try to save the election, he can say, "no, i didn't mean to be violent like that. i meant legally." he has some deniability at this point. unless we get testimony from inside the room from his closest allies, like steve bannon, about what the president actually said, what they actually intended that day, in advance in terms of violence, or afterwards once the violence was going on, what they intended by letting it continue, it'll be a tough case to make. >> so then what is the legal recourse? >> well, in some ways, the best legal recourse is to take the law and fix it so that the president can't do this over again. for me, if i were doing this, i would actually be thinking about
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something like local assault conspiracy charges. the district of columbia has all of the laws that any other state or territory does against violence, and the president was, at a minimum, i think, an instigator and complicit in that. i think that there would probably be viable charges in that regard. >> what about planning a coup, even if it is nonviolent? >> well, that -- >> which happened. >> well, that, too, ought to be, ought to be a crime, but sedition requires the violent overthrow of the government or the violent intent to interfere with that. for the most part, sadly, i think, our founders left responses to political coup kinds of ideas to the political process, to things like the january 6th commission. the problem now is that one of the two major parties in the united states has bailed compl
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completely out of defending congressional prerogatives and defending democracy. when you're in that situation, you could maybe find a criminal charge that's tied to the violence. but the real solutions are political, and that's in the hands of the voters and the politicians. >> it does feel like this whole thing has been a stress test of the constitution. yet, we talk about some of the strengths. here we are talking about weaknesses as well. paul, thank you. >> thank you very much. steve bannon's attorney david schoen will be joining us live here in the next hour of "new day." new this morning, congresswoman liz cheney effectively canceled by wyoming's republican party. the state party's central committee voted 31-29 to no longer consider her a member of the party. that news broke in the "casper star tribune." this stems from cheney's efforts to hold donald trump accountable for his role in the insurrection on january 6th. with me now, former republican congressman and former republican presidential candidate joe walsh.
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cheney banned. so says the wyoming central committee effectively. central committee is maybe an apt term here in this case. what does this tell you? >> hey j, john, good to be with you. it should be funny, but it is not funny because it is so damn sad and pathetic. john, look, it's just another reminder that my former political party is a cult. and i know everybody says that, but i want everybody to hear it be again. one of america's two major political parties is a cult. john, there is no room in that cult if you do not get down on your knees and pledge allegiance to the cult leader, donald trump. liz cheney won't do that, hasn't done that, and because of that, and she may not realize it yet, there's no room in this party for her. >> i want people to listen to what you're saying there.
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because this isn't about some political position on issues. you know, no one questions liz cheney's conservative credentials, where she is on the issues. she's arguably or definitely more conservative than donald trump, more republican in definitional terms than donald trump, except now the wyoming republican party says the most important, defining feature of being a republican is what, is fealty to donald trump. >> it's fealty to trump. look, john, i'm still the same tea party conservative that you were talking to four, five, six, seven years ago. i no longer have a place in the republican party because i will not get down on my knees and worship donald trump. john, this is what is so, so dangerous. listening to brianna's interview just before, i mean, the cult leader -- remember, we're talking about donald trump -- this is the guy that all republicans want joe walsh and
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adam kinzinger, liz cheney, all of us get on our knees and worship him. the leader plotted a coup against the united states of america. so not only is the cult leader donald trump, he's actually a guy who incited an insurrection. that's how gone the republican party is. >> one last thing. the vote was 31-29 though. that did stick to out to me. it was basically split there, joe. >> i think the 29 were almost embarrassed to even comprehend. because think about what they were doing, john. they're saying that liz cheney can't belong to the party. i mean, that's pretty damn dramatic. i think the more important vote
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will be liz cheney's primary challenge next year. right now, unless things dramatically change, there's really no way liz cheney can win a primary in the state of wyoming. >> that 29 though, things chris christie said -- and this is a discussion for another time -- makes me wonder if there is post-trump curiousness among some of the republican party who were, perhaps, blindly loyal to trump before. we'll see. we'll see if that 29 is 35 in six months or if it is 19. that'll tell us something. joe walsh, thank you for coming in. appreciate it. >> thanks, john. see what happened when the defense called for a mistrial in the case of the three men charged with murder in the death of ahmaud arbery. new this morning, what presidents biden and xi debated hours ago in a high-stakes summit. before nexium 24hr, anna could only imagine a comfortable night's sleep without frequent heartburn waking her up. now, that dream... . her reality. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts, for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn?
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here in a few hours, prosecutors will resume their case in the murder trial of three men charged in the death of ahmaud arbery. the judge monday rejecting the defense request for a mistrial and blasting one attorney for comments objecting to black pastors being in the courtroom. cnn's martin savage is live in brunswick, georgia. martin, tell us the latest here. >> reporter: morning, brianna. yeah, for a time, it looked like this case was going to come to an abrupt and ugly ending. not because of what was said on the witness stand but because of what was heard and seen in the courtroom. >> context of this trial, we object to presence in the public gallery inside the courtroom. >> reporter: an explosive morning in the trial of the three men accused of murdering arbery, with a smoldering debate spurred by defense attorneys over black pastors in the courtroom.
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>> if somebody is in the gallery here as a member of the public, that's their right to be here. i'm not going to track individual members of the public who come in and out of this courtroom. >> reporter: defense attorney kevin gough objecting to reverend jesse jackson's presence in the gallery. >> how many pastors does the arbery family have? we had the reverend al sharpton here earlier last week. which pastor is next? is raphael warnock going to be the next person appearing this afternoon? we don't know. your honor, i would submit, with all respect to the reverend jesse jackson, that this is no different than bringing in police officers or uniformed prison guards in a small town, where a young black man has been accused of assaulting a law enforcement officer or corrections officer. >> reporter: this, a recurring issue for william "roddie" bryan's defense attorney, where race has been front and center. jackson arrived at court monday morning after gough said this thursday. >> we don't want any more black pastors coming in here or other
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jesse jackson, whoever was in here earlier this week, sitting with the victim's family, trying to influence the jury in this case. a bunch of folks came here dressed like colonel sanders with white masks in the back, that would be -- >> reporter: he was actually referencing the reverend al sharpton, who was in the courtroom on wednesday to support arbery's family. gough apologized to the court on friday but brought up the issue again monday. the judge rebuked the defense attorney. >> now with individual members -- or individuals coming into the courtroom, i will say that is directly in response, mr. gough, to statements you made, which i find reprehensible. the colonel sanders statement you made last week, i would suggest, may be something that has influenced what is going on here. you need to understand, everybody, that your words in this courtroom have an impact on a lot of what's going on. >> reporter: ahmaud arbery's
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neighbor, carol flowers, was called as a witness. during the testimony, arbery's mother tried when a photo of him alive was shown. after the break, gough asked the judge to again take account of every person in the gallery, saying he was fearful certain individuals could sway the jury by being present. adding -- >> your honor, the case law out there in mob cases, in other cases, demonstrates all the ways that presence in a gallery can influence jurors in a case. i certainly don't mean to suggest that al sharpton or jesse jackson or any other pastor belong to a mob. but at the same time, we are talking about organized behavior by whoever outside the courthouse leading up to this case, where we have all these community leaders fearful that the city is going to burn down. >> reporter: that's when all three defense attorneys moved for a mistrial, claiming their clients were not receiving a fair trial. also citing arbery's mother's
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emotions. >> based on that outburst, the court is not granting a mistrial. >> reporter: jackson said this later outside the courtroom. >> challenging my right to be the judge. it's my constitutional right to be there. i have a moral obligation to be there. i have people who are in need, backs are against the wall. it's what we do. we're going to keep serving this family as a priority and focus of ours now. >> reporter: the trial resumed with a series of forensic experts testifying about fingerprints and enhancements made to a cell phone video. the video shows arbery's death in 2020 after he was chased by gregory and travis mcmichael, armed father and son, and their neighbor, william "roddie" bryan. they pursued the 23-year-old in pickup trucks before cornering him, and travis mcmichael shooting him. the weapon used in the shooting was shown, even holes in arbery's shirt.
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>> can you show how close the gun would be to that t-shirt? >> reporter: an expert from the georgia bureau of investigations testified arbery was shot at close range. >> the end of the shotgun was very close to that fabric when it was fired. to have something that large, it had to be made by the, in my opinion, made by the gas from the tearing of the large amount of gas that exits the end of the barrel of the weapon. also observed is the rolling of the fabric where the edges of it are seared and rolled up. >> reporter: arbery's mother reportedly kept her eyes closed during the replays of the cell phone video of her son's last moments. she later said she was satisfied by the prosecution's case. >> the state is doing a very fantastic job in presenting the evidence in the case. i'm very confident we will get justice for ahmaud. >> reporter: as he was getting into his car last evening after trial, i caught up with attorney kevin gough. i asked him what's next?
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he implied he was going to be busy last night working on a new motion. what that motion is about, we're not quite clear, but it's pretty obvious we haven't heard the last on the issue of black pastors and the threat he believes they pose to brianna and john. >> martin, thank you so much. >> joining me now is charles coleman, civil rights attorney and former prosecutor and trial attorney. thank you so much for being with us this morning. we don't want any more black pastors here. how many black pastors does the arbery family have? what's the strategy behind what defense attorney kevin gough is go doing? >> the strategy is simply to try to appeal to the lowest common denominator, the lowest factor he can, in terms of throwing out a hail mary, in hopes that somebody is going to leak something to the jury and potentially get someone on the same waivelength he is.
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he is going to go all out in terms of putting down the dog whistle and picking up the bull horn about what it is to spout racist rhetoric as a means to trying to connect to the 11 white jurors, as well as the 1 black. i have long said that race is the 13th juror in this case. it is being held in brunswick, georgia. from the outset, what we saw with respect to jury selection and how this trial has proceeded, and with bryan's repeated -- sorry, with gough's repeated attempts to keep certain people out of this courtroom, it is undeaniable that he is -- undeniable that he is playing the race card for his client. >> you can't deny it. william barber last week said, i'm not a black pastor. i'm a pastor. >> right. >> i'm a pastor. these are pastors who are in the courtroom there. what the defense is doing is just blatant. there's no subtlety to it. i want to focus in on something
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you said there though. because all these speeches had been made with the jury out of the courtroom. >> sure. >> out of the courtroom. so he's got to be thinking then, or hoping, that, somehow, they catch wind of this. >> not just that. i think that's a big part of it. i think he is hoping that, at some point, something leaks. if he is able to connect to one of the jurors are what he said. not directly, but through what is going on in the news. we're talking about it. it is being talked about everywhere. he is hoping someone gets wind of it and begins to think about it as they look across the room into the gallery of that courtroom and see the prominent figures there. there is another angle as well. he is trying to do whatever he can to make an issue for appeal out of, for his client in case he is convicted. i don't think this is a viable issue for appeal or one he can win on appeal if his client is convicted, but it is something he is trying to create a record around in case that happens. >> the judge called it reprehensible. >> yes.
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>> what more could or should the judge be doing in your mind, if anything? >> i think the judge did the right thing in terms of calling it ref reheprehensible, denying mistrial, and calling it directly. 1857 dred scott versus stanford. in that case, the united states said the black man in america had no rights which the white man was bound to respect. i think about the whispers of dred scott along with what is going on with this case. ahmaud arbery in the eyes of the mcmichael family and mr. bryan didn't have the right to go into a house, look at what was going on, and go jogging. now according to mr. bryan's attorney, mr. gough, al sharpton and other black pastors do not have the right to sit in a trial and comfort ahmaud arbery's family. that family deserves to be comforted by anyone who they choose and anyone who is sitting there not trying to influence that trial but interested in justice for ahmaud arkansas ber
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should -- arbery should be allowed to be there. >> would it be an objection if it was a white pastor? >> good question. >> thank you. why president xi is warning president biden, don't play with fire. later, russia blows up a satellite in orbit, sparking an uproar on earth. [gaming sounds] aming sounds] [gaming sounds] st think, he'll be driving for real soon. every new chevy equinox comes standard with chevy safety assist, including automatic emergency braking. find new peace of mind.
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this is elodia. she's a recording artist. 1 of 10 million people that comcast has connected to affordable internet in the last 10 years. and this is emmanuel, a future recording artist,
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and one of the millions of students we're connecting throughout the next 10. through projectup, comcast is committing $1 billion so millions more students, past... and present, can continue to get the tools they need to build a future of unlimited possibilities. president biden met virtually with chinese president xi for 3 1/2 hours in some kind of long zoom, wouldn't you say? a senior white house official saying these two leaders had a healthy debate, but that there were no breakthroughs. china's president did have a warning though for president biden. here's what the chinese government said about that overnight. president xi ascribed tensions
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by the repeated attempts by taiwan authorities to look for u.s. support in their independence agenda, as well as the intention of some americans to use taiwan to contain china. such moves are extremely dangerous, just like playing with fire. whoever plays with fire will get burned. joining me now, cnn global affairs analyst susan glasser. what is your reaction to that reaction from the chinese government? >> well, you know, it's a lot of tough talk. remember, just a few weeks ago, you saw an enormous number of military overfights by the chinese, a more overt signal of threatening taiwan than you've seen recently. it's remained official chinese doctrine for this years, the idea of retaking control of t taiwan. recent years, that's become hardened up. there is a serious question, of course. the united states has maintained what it calls strategic ambiguity. would the united states go to
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taiwan's defense? is there anything they could do to stop a chinese military takeover of taiwan? this rhetoric has gotten very serious in recent months, against a general backdrop of a very cold start between dealings with the biden administration and xi. this summit coming ten months in is the first major step by the two to look each other in the zoom eye and to, you know, ratchet it back just a little bit. >> can you imagine a 3 1/2 hour zoom though, just as an aside, susan. my goodness. so i want to listen to something that president xi said. >> translator: china and the united states should respect each other, co-exist in peace and pursue win-win cooperation. i stand ready to work with you, mr. president, to build consensus. >> i mean, those are just sort of the platitudes, right? what's behind that? >> well, look, joe biden has come into office pledging
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essentially a much tougher mind than, say, the obama administration when he previously served in government. that reflects a changed reality, obviously. trump used very masculine rhetoric. what you see from biden is the opposite of the feel good platitude when it comes to china. secretary of state said dealing with china is the greatest geopolitical and existential threat for the united states of the 21st century. biden has talked about his foreign policy as a conflict between democratic nations and the autocratic nations of the world, like china and russia. and so there's been this very kind of hostile surround sound to the dealings. the chinese, until recently, you know, were giving the cold shoulder to u.s. diplomats, like former secretary of state john kerry. just in the last week, you've seen xi kind of dial it back. not only those words -- >> all right. unfortunately, i think we've
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lost susan's signal there. susan glasser, sothank you so mh for that. ahead, how democrats could capitalize on president biden's big bipartisan win on infrastructure. >> let's hope the technology between biden and xi was better than that. steve bannon surrenders, vowing to go on the offensive in the face of contempt charges. we'll speak to his lawyer just minutes from now. e ergo smart be from tempur-pedic responds to snoring- automatically. so no hiding under your pillow, or opting for the couch. your best sleep.p. all night. every nightht. save up toto $500 on select adjustable mattress sets during the black friday event.
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should we have another one? talk to us about retirement today. feel comfortable about tomorrow. massmutual. ♪ baby got back by sir mix-a-lot ♪ unlimited cashback match... only from discover. president biden signed a landmark $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill into law. in march, he signed a bill that injected covid relief money into the u.s. economy and yesterday biden's approval numbers are slipping and democrats face a bleak picture. why? one democratic politician thinks it is because the party has a messaging problem, saying, quote, i don't think democrats brag enough. i don't think we celebrate enough.
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i don't think that we tell people why we are bragging and why we are celebrating. joining us now, steven reed, the mayor of montgomery, alabama, and the source of that quote in the washington post. mayor, thank you for being with us. what do you mean? >> well, thank you for having me. the first thing, i mean, is we have to make sure as democrats we're telling people we're working for them. unfortunately in a culture that is a zero sum game here in washington, that's not often communicated clear enough. i think what we have to do as democrats is really celebrate this win, enjoy this win, and tell people what it means for them and their everyday lives. i think if we can do that, people will understand the work that the biden administration has put in for this and they will appreciate what the democratic congress has done in leading this effort. >> if it were making a difference in their everyday lives, why wouldn't they be feeling it? >> i think, you know, there is a labor turn on some of that. everyone want to see the
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benefits of change. very few people want to go through the process of change. whether that's keeping your new year's resolution or whatever you say you're going to do over thanksgiving holiday, everyone wants to see that goal, but it takes work in order to get there. this is the work that has been done by the biden administration, and i think what the biden administration should do now is exactly not only go to new hampshire and go to other states like that, but also make sure that they're utilizing people like myself, mayors, governors, congressmen, union leaders and others to help connect the dots for the everyday american in terms of what this means. >> help connect the dots in a way this sounds like a bad high school breakup, where, you know, i would tell someone, how come you can't see how great i am. >> well, listen, i think that people don't understand often what goes into the political process. and as a mayor, we don't have a luxury of playing some of the games they play here in d.c. we have to get things done. and i think that's what a lot of my colleagues who were there yesterday to witness this
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signing would tell you. t this is what the governors would tell you as well. what happens here is a stalemate that only works in the outcome of if you lose, i win. that's not american. so what i want us to really focus on is when the biden administration is putting an unprecedented amount of money into public transit, into workforce programs, rebuilding our airports, roads and bridges, that's something we should all see as a win for america. not for any particular party. and i think that should be the takeaway. >> how much of this is on president biden? >> well, listen, the win comes to those who let it. he's the quarterback of this team. so we have to go out there and really do our part as part of this administration and one of the beneficiaries to share locally at the state level, neighborhood by neighborhood -- >> is he doing enough? does he need to sell it more, better, differently?
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>> well, listen, i think certainly we can all sell it better. i think we can all do more. and certainly that includes the president. that includes everyone that benefits from it, whether they voted for this bill or not. >> is he not explaining it well enough? >> i think it is hard to get through the muddle of the media in today's day and age and that may be a little tough for someone like president biden who is used to straight talk. but there is a lot of noise out there. we have to cut through the noise and tell the american people what this is going to do for their pocketbooks, what it is going to do for their job opportunities and what it is going to do for their ability to live a better life. and i think when people hear this, over the course of time, we'll see those numbers change. and ultimately i think when you're in leadership, you don't do things based on the polls. you can't lead with it into the ground and finger into the wind. you do it because of what's right, and that's what the entire administration have done. now it is up to us to carry the
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message out to the communities across this country and i believe you'll see a different response. >> what is the possibility that the priorities of some americans, maybe many americans, have changed since president biden began working on this, whether it was the $1.9 trillion relief bill, the infrastructure bill, work began last spring, in the summer we had delta, now inflation. what is the possibility americans care more about different things that they don't necessarily see as much work being done on? >> well, first of all, i think if you ask the average american what inflation is, they couldn't tell you. i think you have to let -- >> inflation? you don't think they could tell you what inflation is. >> i don't think the average american could tell you what inflation is. >> i think they could tell you. i think that may be the one thing people will tell you, i'm paying more for gas. that's inflation. >> i agree with you. they can tell you what they're paying for milk, bread and eggs at the grocery store and gas. but when you talk about what's in the bill and the level being put in for public transit, road improvements and how that improves their quality of life,
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how it increases mobility, how it increases the good-paying jobs that will be out there for workers in various trades and skills of which there is a shortage, that changes things. these are good paying jobs and these are the type of opportunities that americans have been looking for to get access to the full prosperity of this nation. and i think that is the message, not the message of how much it costs, not the message of what inflation or deflation may be, the message is it is better for you, better for the average american because of what we're investing back into this nation, back into our states, back into our cities, and that is the takeaway i believe for president biden and all of us who supported this bill. >> mayor reed, always a pleasure to have you on. thank you so much for joining me this morning. >> thank you. >> "new day" continues right now. good morning to our viewers here in the united states and all around the world. i'm john berman with brianna keilar. it is tuesday, november 16th.
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so kyle rittenhouse, the jury begins deliberating today, in just a few hours they head behind closed doors in this highly watched homicide trial. panel of 18 jurors, 8 men, 10 women, narrowed down to the final 12 in a random draw. >> this follows more than five hours of closing arguments yesterday. the prosecution painting rittenhouse as an active shooter who provoked the violence that caused him to kill two people and wound a third. the defense portraying him as a scared teen who is just trying to defend himself and the community from a violent mob. shimon prokupecz is following this in kenosha, wisconsin. our top story, of course. the stakes here very high as the jury proceeds. >> reporter: very high. and they're going to have a tough task ahead of them. the verdict sheet, 14 pages for the 7 counts they will need to consider. the judge adding two counts, two


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