tv Don Lemon Tonight CNN November 17, 2021 8:00pm-9:00pm PST
two committees after he posted an anime video showing him appearing to kill congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez and attacking the president of the united states, joe biden. it is the first time the house voted to censure a sitting member in more than ten years. plus the so-called qanon shaman sentenced to almost 3 1/2 years behind bars for his role in the january 6th insurrection. and verdict watch continues in the kyle rittenhouse homicide trial. jurors set to resume deliberations at 10:00 a.m. i want to get right now to the censure of republican congressman paul gosar and the gop's refusal to condemn a growing culture of violence. so joining me now, cnn political commentator charlie dent and cnn senior political analyst kirsten power. she is also the author of the new book "saving grace." we're so happy to have both of you. good evening. charlie, i'm going to start with you. but before you're going to speak on this i want you to hear what the gop said today ahead of
today's censure vote. >> the video was deleted. but democrats won't listen because they will do anything to distract from the failures of one party rule in one year, destroying a nation. >> today we're critique's paul gosar's anime. next week we might be indicting the wile e. coyote for unex -- for an explosive ordnance against the roadrunner. >> the left has nothing else to do but troll the internet looking for ways to get offended. >> i'm told if you stop it frame by frame you can see what democrat friends are talking about. i couldn't see it. >> democrats in congress later this week plan to spend 2 trillion more dollars which we all know will only exacerbate the already 30-year high inflation. and what are they doing today? censure's a member for a cartoon. >> it was every excuse. blame democrats. talk about immigration or
inflation or, you know, they say so what, it's just a cartoon. anything but gosar. how does this sit with you, kirsten? >> well, i mean, the idea that it's just a cartoon, it doesn't really matter whether it's a cartoon or in what form it comes when you are portraying one member of congress murdering another member of congress. so you know, this game that they're sort of playing doesn't work for me. and the idea that if this is reversed and somehow this was done to marjorie taylor greene or somebody that they actually care about that they would just say oh, it's a cartoon is absurd. but there just are no standards. they can't even come together on something as basic as members of congress cannot depict themselves murdering other members of congress.
>> charlie, my bad because i posed the question to you before the sound bite and then i went to kirsten. anyway. i was just being nice. anyway, what do you think about this, charlie? how does that sit with you? >> no, this is not okay with me. and the members that why just depicted there defending gosar and deflecting are really members on the fringe to be quite honest. i'll say the more pragmatic members, they were nowhere to be found. but what's most troubling to me, don, is yesterday morning for an hour and a half the house republican conference spent their time berating john cat co. of new york, a republican, because he voted for an infrastructure bill. that's what they did. and it wasn't about paul gosar. it was about john katko, who by the way is a former assistant u.s. attorney. if congress is going to ever try to sanction members of -- they should sanction them for misconduct or violating standards of conduct or just bad behavior. they're going after thoughtful
members over infrastructure but then condoning people like paul gosar and mtg who are clearly bringing discredit upon the house through their misconduct. that's what's so troubling to me, to watch this happen. it's painful to watch. >> i'm sure troubling, kirsten, as the house was voting gosar was standing with marjorie taylor greene who charlie just mentioned, andy biggs, lauren boebert. i mean, should we expect more characters like greene and boebert if republicans take the house in 2022? and they're saying we're going to get revenge if you continue with this. >> i think we probably will see more of that, especially because those are the type of people that donald trump likes the most and endorses. and while they behave like fringe people, i think i have to disagree a little with charlie that i don't think they necessarily are the fringe. they should be the fringe. but they're not. marjorie taylor greene actually
has quite a lot of influence. you can see how they all are running scared from her all the time no matter how outlandish and outrageous and unacceptable her behavior is. >> and she's saying she's going to get more and better committee assignments. but go on. >> right. so -- and she -- is she the one who gets censured or berated? no, she's not. right? and it's people who are -- the idea that people who voted for the infrastructure bill are being berated when 2/3 of the country support that, it just shows how this is just this cultish group of people who have now this purity test that they have been holding everybody to for the last many years, which is how much do you love donald trump. show us how much you love donald trump. and anything donald trump is against, it doesn't matter if 2/3 of americans like it it, it doesn't matter if it's going to help people, because he says he opposes the infrastructure bill we have to go along with this even though we know that it's good for the united states.
>> well, listen. charlie, i want you to respond to what she said, but i do think she has a point. only two republicans voted with democrats who censured gosar and that was liz cheney and adam kinzinger. so is it really the fringe or is it just where the party is? because they were the only two who had the courage to do it. >> i think what happened -- i mentioned the katko situation a few moments ago because i think in many respects what they were doing to him and the other 13 who voted for the infrastructure bill, this is a brushback pitch. they threw it at katko. basically sending a signal, don't go after gosar or marjorie taylor greene because we can come after you. they're actually worried about their own committee assignments right now. so they're not in a position where they can go out and censure another and remove someone from committees. so they're vulnerable. so i think they were really pushed into a very bad corner, the more reasonable ones. i think if you did a survey of the house republican congress i would think most of them are appalled by what gosar had done and they realize that leadership
should be dealing with this. the way you deal with situations like this is that the top leader, the minority leader, in this case kevin mccarthy, you know, has to have serious conversations with these members who step out of line. i've said before. i served with john boehner and paul ryan and i watched nancy pelosi. they dealt with members who became embarrassments or distractions, often getting them to resign. they could force them out. that's not happening. they were trying to enforce standards of conduct as best they could, and they did it oftentimes successfully without a whole lot of media attention, but they did it. that's not happening now. the standards bar has been lowered so low, i blame the former president a lot for that, it's so low that it just seems that they'd rather not deal with it and mccarthy wants to become speaker of the house and he doesn't want to alienate any member who might vote against him. they might end up putting the screws to him anyway. they did five years ago when he wanted to become speaker. the right-wing freedom caucus basically took him down.
they may do it again. taylor greene just came out and said she wasn't necessarily voting for him for speaker. so he's trying to placate them. and i don't think it's going to be successful in the end. >> and kirsten, to be clear, right? to clear things up. if the shoe was on the other foot, it had been a democrat that had posted a video like that, would they have censured one of their own? >> would the democrats? yes, i think they would. yeah. i mean, i think -- i just think this goes so far beyond anything that anybody i can think of has done. you know, they like to pretend that something that maxine waters said once to some protesters was somehow the same as portraying yourself murdering somebody. you know, it's an apples to, you know, artichokes kind of comparison. and so yeah, i think if somebody posted an image of them murdering another member of congress, yeah, they would be -- i think they would be held accountable for that. >> thank you both.
i appreciate it. i want to bring in now cnn's chief media correspondent mr. brian stelter and cnn global affairs analyst mr. max boot. welcome. to the studio. it's good to see both of you. let's continue on with this conversation. because today's vote, it's not -- this isn't happening in a vacuum. all right? max. because we still have january 6th, the investigation. there's furious opposition to that. there's trump's revenge tour. when you add all of these things up, what is happening to our democracy? >> i think what you're seeing, don, is frightening polarization and an embrace of violence by some of the extreme elements in the republican party. there was actually a poll that came out this summer which showed that something like 40% of republicans think that violence is justified if political leaders are not, quote unquote, protecting the country. and of course you have mass approval of the -- what happened on january 6th, the insurrection, the attack on the capitol. republicans have no interest in investigating that. many of them are turning people
like ashleigh babbit who was killed in the course of this attack, into heroes. this is just a very frightening scenario where you have one major party in america, don, being radicalized and flirting with violence. and of course paul gosar is exhibit a of that. just inconceivable that in any other workplace you can get away with depicting the murder of a colleague. >> i want you to respond to something. i'll put up a quote. this is from your -- to your colleagues at the "washington post." paul waldman and greg sargent. they said, "in today's gop voting for infrastructure is heresy. threatening violence is not." do you think that they're right? >> absolutely. i mean, we see the evidence that the 13 republicans who voted for this bipartisan, popular infrastructure bill are getting death threats. just a couple days ago you had liz cheney getting drummed out of the party in wyoming because she calls out the big lie and says it's not acceptable to lie about the election outcomes. that has become heresy. it's become a litmus test within the republican party to embrace
the big lie, to say that donald trump won. and you know, there is no appetite in republican ranks for condemning people who take the law into their own hands or who carry out acts of violence or advocate acts of violence as long as it's in the maga cause, it's all okay. >> but let's talk about, brian, with you about the echo chamber in which this is all spread, right? conservative media. much of it through the fox propaganda channel. there's so much disinformation out there fueling anger, potential violence, whether it is the aftermath of january 6th or a fight over school masks or mandate or if it's a fake thing about crt. we see it every night on the fox propaganda channel. what is the echo chamber doing to our culture? >> well, i think it's splitting the culture into two. that there is no single shared culture. no single shared reality. and i think all of us feel that in our personal lives, you know, whether we feel it at thanksgiving next week or we just feel it kind of more commonly or more casually when
talking about school meetings, when talking about what students are learning, when talking about where people are getting information. it is a splintering of one culture into two where you have these republicans who are making the argument that they are under attack from the left. and that is the narrative on fox, which i think is really -- it's not pro trump anymore. it's anti-biden. the best way to view these right-wing outlets is they're anti-biden in every way, shape, or form. they're not airing biden's events live. they ignore his events. they only focus on the news that makes the party look good. they do not talk about the gosar video. fox barely mentioned the gosar video today. >> i just want to ask you because i was watching -- i have to give props to a colleague at another network, nicolle wallace when she had chris christie on and she said how can you write a book and talk about the spreading and proliferation of misinformation -- >> and not talk about fox? >> and not talk about fox news but talk about cnn and msnbc. disingenuous. and i thought her question was
right on and it was brilliant. >> christie complains in the book about bias from major networks but then doesn't address fox. you know, that says it all. look, you can't have a republican rescue the way christie wants to have without addressing the disinformation poison that's -- >> and where it comes from. yeah. so rupert murdoch addressed shareholders of newscorp. today and he appeared to have a message for trump. what do you think? >> he said -- this is really striking. i've never seen this before. where he comes out and says the conservative movement needs to have a loud voice and the public needs to be leading the way but we can't do that if trump is litigating the past. we can't talk about the past anymore, we have to build the future. so basically, murdoch is sending a message to trump saying we need to focus on the future. which i think is fascinating. it's kind of like saying hey, to the arsonists in the room if you just don't light any more fires we can all move on and pretend like the fires didn't happen. we can all just move on.
but does anybody believe that donald trump is willing to move on from 2020? i thought it was so naive on murdoch's part to come out and say let's talk about the future, let's not focus on the past. donald trump is the one that's relitigating 2020. he's out there talking to mike lindell on the my pillow delusional livestream. there is no way to move past the damage this arsonist did when he is still out there trying to set more fires. >> and it's hard to believe that murdoch is serious about this when he allows one of his highest-paid employees, tucker carlson, to air a multipart, quote unquote, documentary alleging that the january 6th insurrection was a false flag operation, which is just outright crazy and incendiary. and murdoch does nothing to rein that in. >> you're saying rupert should watch his own network before he comments. >> exactly. >> as a former republican. >> right. >> since we're talking about all of this and the means through which it is spread, give us the final word here. >> i mean, i think we're in a frightening situation, don, because i think what we're
seeing is growing political violence. you have kyle rittenhouse on trial right now for taking the law into his own hands and shooting several people. remember, you had mass shootings during the trump presidency at a walmart in el paso, at a synagogue in pittsburgh. you had the storming of the capitol with people who had gallows with them on january 6th. and republicans are really playing with fire. they are pouring fuel on this fire. people like paul gosar and others. this is going to end in tragedy. >> thank you both. i appreciate it. fascinating conversation. see you soon. good to have you here. conversations are better when you folks are here in person. when we're all together. thanks. so he was the face of the capitol riot. now the qanon shaman jacob chansley is sentenced to 41 months in prison for his part in what happened on january 6th. what will his sentence mean for other rioters facing prosecution? bill, mary? hey... it's our former broker carl. carl, say hi to nina, our schwab financial consultant. hm... i know how difficult these calls can be. not with schwab.
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so you know him, right? you know his face and the outfit and whatever. the get-up. one of the most well-known faces of the capitol riot, the so-called qanon shaman. sentenced to more than three years for his role in the insurrection. there he is, standing in the well. the judge showing little sympathy for jacob chansley, giving him one of the harshest sentences of any insurrectionists, any of the insurrectionists. 41 months in prison. chansley was one of the first 30 rioters inside the capitol building on january 6th, equipped with face paint, a bullhorn, and a flagpole as a spear. so joining me now, cnn legal analyst and former federal prosecutor elliott williams. elliott, good evening. good to see you. we're back to the qanon shaman here. chansley became a symbol of this insurrection, roaming around the senate chamber, yelling,
carrying an improvised weapon. he even left a note for mike pence. >> yep. >> what do you think of the sentence, sir? >> yeah, you know, it's interesting, don. it could have been higher. so look, the way federal sentencing works is that you punch numbers in based on the severity of the offense, the crime he's charged with, his criminal history, any factors that might bump it up, were kids present or something like that. you get a range. the range here was 41 to 51 months. a judge knows that if he or she se sentences someone to within that range it's going to be good, it's going to stand up on appeal. look, he could have gone up to 51 months. what the judge seemed to be convinced by was that he accepted responsibility and spent a half hour today in this stem-winder of a speech, the defendant did, saying how sorry he was, that he accepted responsibility and so on. we'll see how that plays in the future cases. right? and if these guys do say they're sorry. >> well, let me follow up on that because he's one of the first felony defendants to get a punishment among more than 660
capitol riot cases. do you think it's going to set a standard for other rioters facing prosecution? >> let me tell you this, don. it should because that's the way federal sentencing should work. but the system wants to get uniformity across all sentences and across all similar crimes. and so when you have a body of defendants all of whom have committed the same or similar offenses you want them to get other judges to follow sort of the lead that this first judge set. now, there are other factors that are going to bump up other people's sentences. number one, people who helped plan and coordinate and bring other folks to washington. number two, people who engaged in acts of violence. throwing bear spray and things like that. that may bump people up, higher up in the range. and again, acceptance of responsibility. if folks just dig in and say look, i'm not sorry, we're patriots here, then those are the kinds of things that might lead to higher sentences. >> there was a whole circus around chansley's case. he asked the former president, the ex-president, for a pardon.
trump, right? he wanted to testify at trump's impeachment trial. he went on a hunger strike to get organic food. he spoke to "60 minutes" from jail without permission. let's watch some of it. here it is. >> yeah. >> my actions on january 6th, how would i describe them? well, i sang a song. and that's a part of shamanism. it's about creating positive vibrations in a sacred chamber. i also stopped people from stealing and vandalizing that sacred space, the senate. okay? i actually stopped someone from stealing muffins out of the break room. i also said a prayer in that sacred chamber because it was my intention to bring divinity and to bring god back into the senate. >> okay. listen, i mean, right? the judge -- what did you want to say? >> delusion is one hell of a drug. >> he did get rebuked from the judge for that. it seems like he didn't really
take anything seriously. so how did that play into -- >> you know what's interesting, don, i'm actually not surprised but it's interesting that they could even get him to enter what's called a knowing and voluntary plea. the guy has to know the charges, understand the charges against him and know that he's pleading guilty and so on. i don't think this guy's all together. and at times if a defendant can't understand in effect the words that are being said to him or what he's agreeing to you can't actually get him to plead guilty. now, look, here he's smart enough or savvy enough to be giving interviews to "60 minutes" and so on. but this is clearly not a well individual. now, i'm not intending in any way to justify this conduct. this is reprehensible conduct. but this is -- we can chuckle about it here. but this is somebody who's just not all together. >> yeah. well, i'm not going to do the psychoanalysis here. but i understand the thrust of what you're saying. listen, i want to ask you about steve bannon pleading not guilty to contempt of congress.
this comes ahead of bannon's hearing tomorrow before a judge. he's doing his best to make -- to really drag this on, make it last as long as possible, no? >> no, absolutely. now, what he's done tomorrow is waive a formal arraignment. he's not going to come in and sort of hear all the charges that have been brought against him. now, look, it's still an opportunity to make a circus. there's going to be a hearing. i would think we would hear from steve bannon tomorrow. but this is -- you heard his own words about how this is the misdemeanor from hell and we're going to dig in and we're going to make a fight. this is a pr opportunity for him far more than anything else. >> elliott williams, whor where i'm from in louisiana they say elliot. >> how's your mom and them? >> they're good. thank you. i appreciate if. i'll see you soon. 16 hours of deliberation and no verdict yet. but the defense is calling for a mistrial.
the court and asked to review video evidence. joining me now, paul buccar, former district attorney for waukesha county wisconsin. and robert hirshhorn, a jury trial consultant. thank you for joining us this evening. the conversations we've been having on the subject with the two of you have been the most enlightening. so i should say -- or most enlightening. we're happy to have you back. robert, another day without a verdict. our reporters on the scene say jurors looked fatigued. what do you think is happening in that jury room? >> yeah. number one, not surprising we don't have a verdict yet. complicated charges. 36 pages of jury instructions. there's lots for them to go through. it's a really good jury. they're being thorough. one of the things they asked for today were the videos, don. and the question is why was the jury asking for the videos? and i'll tell you because i think i know exactly why -- >> we'll show this as you talk about this.
i want to warn our audience, the video you're about to see, it is graphic. it's from the night rittenhouse shot three people, some of which is up on the screen right now. there it is. the jury spent about 45 minutes looking at this video this afternoon. so go ahead. continue, robert. >> okay. so don, the jury, what they're trying to figure out is what was this defendant's intent? what was going on in his mind? they heard what he said on the witness stand. but these videos represent what he was doing, his actions, his conduct on this particular night. so because the jury has to decide this case based on what his conduct was, that's why they asked for and that's why they spent so much time looking at the videos. do you agree, paul? do you think that's right? >> hang on one second because i'm going to get to paul. again, what does this tell you about the be deliberations of the jurors? anything? >> don, they're in for a fight.
there's people on both sides on this one. remember last night i said to you it's a second amendment case. there are some people that are gun rights kind of jurors. there's other people that are gun control jurors. the gun rights and the gun control jurors are duking it out. because they see that video, don, looks different depending on your perspective. >> okay. now let's bring paul in. paul, you can answer him, and i think my question you'll get to it because the defense is also calling for a mistrial today over a technical problem. they're having a whole back and forth over the state providing them with a lower-quality video for a key piece of evidence. let's listen and then you'll respond. >> we would have done this case in a little bit different manner if that was the situation. we didn't have the quality of evidence that the state had until the case had been closed. i'm going to be asking the court for a mistrial. >> but their client lied about this on the stand is the state's position. there seems to be evidence to support the position that he
lied on the stand about raising the gun. he was confronted with the exhibit. he denied it. the jury wants to see these exhibits. >> okay, paul. your turn here. you know the judge. do you think there's a possibility of a mistrial over this? >> no. absolutely not. they got a crappy video. okay. big deal. i get really bad copies. i get bad photographs. they got them. you know, part of the defense is to make sure they ask for -- they call it the best evidence. i know leo has called it the best evidence and others. it's really a matter of what you have and if you can't decipher it, which i've had, you ask for a better video. it's not grounds for a reversal. what are grounds for reversal is the comment on the defendant's silence after arrest. but i think they're laying the
groundwork, they're throwing -- just like the government threw as much as they could against the wall when they charged, the defense is throwing as much as they can against the wall for post-conviction motions. i know it's not going to be -- that's not a basis for mistrial. but i think it would be ineffective for them not to at least ask for it. and the government has been playing cat and mouse the whole game. >> hey, don, can i add one thing to this, please? >> go on. >> what would they have done different? like how would that have changed their defense? the fact that it's a clearer showing of what their client did, that now they're going to change their defense? i don't think so. i completely agree with paul. they have to do their job and preserve the rights for appeal. but the judge would not grant a mistrial based on that. >> so paul, i want to go back to something robert talked about and he asked you because i said what is this when you think of the judge allowing them to see this video, right? what do you think that means? and them asking for it. quickly, if you can. sorry. what do you think that means for the jury and for the possibility
of what's to come here? >> nothing. and i'm sorry to burst everybody's balloon. i mean, 75% or thereabouts of this entire trial has been video, video, video, video, video. and so it's not surprising that the jury wants to see the video. what's surprising is the jury wanted to see 36 pages of jury instructions. so i'm not surprised. i think they're past the self-defense. they've already made that decision in my opinion. and now they're looking at the substantive offenses. i would guess, and it's a guess, i'll defer to robert, he's the expert in this area, that we can expect a jury verdict tomorrow. my experience has been after the jury sends out notes for readbacks or more evidence, whatever it is, that you normally get a jury verdict shortly thereafter. i think they've come to 80% of certainty in this case. what that certainty is, i have no idea. but i believe we'll have a
verdict verdict sometime midday tomorrow. >> okay. so i can tell from robert's expression he doesn't think so. >> i don't think he is. don, i hope he's right but i don't think he is. i think this goes at least till friday. >> all right. thank you, gentlemen. and we will see you tomorrow. or the next day whenever it happens. thank you. i appreciate it. >> thanks, don. >> thanks, don. so they were found guilty 55 years ago and now two men convicted of killing malcolm x are about to be exxon onerated with us. ♪ and even when things go a bit wrong, we've got your back. here, things work the way you wish they would. and better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today. get help managing your money for the life -- and years -- ahead. with fidelity income planning, we'll look at what you've saved, what you'll need, and help you build
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two men convicted in the 1965 assassination of civil rights icon malcolm x will soon be exonerated. a 22-month investigation found evidence of their innocence was withheld at trial. manhattan d.a. cyrus vance saying today, and i quote, "this points to the truth that law enforcement over history has often failed to live up to its responsibilities." so joining me now, cnn national correspondent athena jones. athena, good evening. this is fascinating what is happening now. these exonerations are coming after muhammad aziz and khalil islam, it's a big deal, but 55 years in the making? i mean, how did this happen? >> it is a big deal. it's rare to see a reversal in such a high-profile case like this. and these men spent the prime of their lives decades behind bars. once they were released they still had to spend years dealing with the stigma of being
wrongfully convicted of this. now, this came about because of a documentary that aired on netflix last year. it was a six-part series called "who killed malcolm x." it was hosted by howard university educated man who had converted to islam, i historian, a writer and a journalist. and it raised enough questions about the case that the manhattan d.a., cyrus vance, said they would be reinvestigating, they would be essentially reopening the case. and they did so with the help of the innocence project, which we know is the non-profit that works to help the wrongfully convicted. and lawyers for the two men. but don, one of these men, khalil islam, died in 2009. the other one, muhammad aziz, is 83 years old. so they waited a long time to have their names cleared. >> they maintained their innocence for a long time. islam and aziz. what are their lawyers saying tonight? >> well, their lawyers are saying among other things that this was long overdue, this result was long overdue and these convictions were the result of gross official misconduct and of a criminal justice system that is weighted against people of color. now, muhammad aziz, we reached
out to him and he gave a statement saying while i do not knees this court, these prosecutors or piece of paper to tell me i am innocent, i am glad that this my family, my friends and the attorneys who have worked and supported me all these years are finally seeing the truth we have all known officially recognized. >> the third man convicted said that aziz and islam were innocent. the innocence project says there was no physical evidence linking them to the murder. aziz had an alibi. what is the innocence project saying about how these convictions even came up in the first place? i mean, it doesn't seem like they had a strong case. >> well, no. as you mentioned, we're going to hear more about this in a press conference tomorrow but "the new york times" is reporting several details. among them this idea that there was i ath third man who testifi in the trial. he confessed to being part of the killings. and he said these other two men were not his co-conspirators, they were innocent. he insisted this on the witness stand. we know both of these men had credible alibis. we also know in the reinvestigation a lot of these witnesses are dead, they can't
re-examine this evidence but the people reinvestigating did find a witness who corroborated that aziz was at home that day, at home at the time of the shooting. we also know that while prosecutors say that khalil islam, the man who's now passed away, was the man holding the shotgun another witness said no, the man holding the shotgun looked completely different. he was short, he was stocky, he was dark-skinned, he had a beard. khalil islam was light-skinned, clean-shaven, lean. there were a lot of problems with this case. and one other thing that came up is that prosecutors did not disclose there were undercover officers in the ballroom, in the audubon ballroom on that date in 1965. so all of this leading to what barry scheck of the innocence project saying the assassination of malcolm x was a historic event that demanded a scrupulous investigation and prosecution but instead produced one of the most blatant miscarriages of justice that i've ever seen. officially correcting the false historical narrative around one of the most significant events in the 20th century of u.s. history allows us to learn from
and prevent future miscarriages of justice." >> wow. wow. wow. great reporting. thank you so much, athena. fascinating story. we'll see you soon. and there's another case that you need to know about. 20 years on death row, only hours left until the deadline, a man's life fully rests in the hands of oklahoma's governor, who hasn't said what he will do. julius jones' mother and best friend are here, next. (man 2) definitely higher. (man 1) we're like yodeling high. [yodeling] yo-de-le-he... (man 2) hey, no. uh-uh, don't do that. (man 1) we should go even higher! (man 2) yeah, let's do it. (both) woah! (man 2) i'm good. (man 1) me, too. (man 2) mm-hm. (vo) adventure has a new look. (man 1) let's go lower. (man 2) lower, that sounds good. (vo) discover more in the all-new subaru outback wilderness. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru.
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this is an important one, y'all. pay attention to this. pressure growing on georgia's governor to grant clemency for julius jones for a crime he says he didn't commit. the board granting to vote the a stay. the family's supporters have waited outside the governor's office to speak with him. his best friend, jimmy lawson, who were on this very program and they return with me this evening. good evening to both of you. >> good evening. >> good evening. >> madeleine, i can't. listen, i am so sorry you're going through this. i can't imagine what you're dealing with. pins and needles.
the hands of your son are in the governor's hands. how are you now? >> no communication with the governor. and i was just stating today to jaime that i just feel like -- feel empty. unidentifiable, no identity. you know. earlier this week we went to visit with the governor, no response, even though we delivered a letter to him. and i feel -- i guess i shouldn't say this. but i feel like a second class citizen. i'm a voter a part of our community and yet no response from our honorable governor.
so, i feel a little bit invisible. >> you describe your son's scheduled execution as a lynching. talk to me about that. >> well, i feel like it's a modern day lynching. how can i say i think about the word "lynch". i was discussing with my son over here. you might enjoy sports and competitive but this lynching, it seems is a barbaric thing. >> you know, jimmy, let me bring you in. because julius is your long-time friend. parole board found fundamental breakdowns in the system tasked
with finding his guilt and says there was racial bias among his jury. an inexperienced attorney, alleged prosecutorial misconduct. i can't understand. why do you think the governor has pushed this decision down to the wire? >> you know, it's a great question. because we provided what the governor asked for. after the first commutation, he said i'm trying to decide and i want you to go through clemency. and we did that and the parole board voted in favor again for the second time. so, we provided him not one time a vote, but a second time of approve. so, we provided the governor exactly what he asked for. now we're coming right down to the wire, you know, with pure silence on his behalf. it's kind of an unsurreal moment. it feels like one of those dreams you're in that doesn't
seem real but it is real. >> listen, you never know who's watching or what could happen. madeleine, any words for the governor tonight? anything you want to say? >> first of all, i'd like to really know the governor. i haven't had the opportunity to meet him as i have other governors and politicians. and i don't know what to say to him because he had assured us that he would make the decision swift. and if this is swift, we're in trouble again. >> please though keep the faith. >> but i would like for him to do the right thing. >> and at the very least, let there be some communication. so rb keep the faith. the lord works in mysterious ways. so, thank you both. best of luck.
god bless. >> we appreciate you, don. thank you for allowing us to be here and believing in what we're doing and believing that we could still pull off a miracle. the miracle could happen. >> amen to that. thank you both. thanks for watching, everyone. thank you, thank you. imagine what that poor family is going through. i can't imagine, really. our coverage continues. and he gets one-on-one coaching when he needs it. so ben is feeling pretty zen. that's the planning effect from fidelity [oof] i'll also be needing, stain remover, club soda and a roll of paper towels. [sfx: doorbell rings] lifesaver! [blegh] you're weird, man. to each his own.
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