tv Don Lemon Tonight CNN November 22, 2021 7:00pm-8:00pm PST
turkey dtongue. laura coates tonight, the upgrade for don lemon. >> i'm with it still. i'm glad about it. >> the intelligence alone knocks me speechless. >> wow. >> must be this new piercing i have. [ laughter ] >> that's a midlife crisis coming for ya right there. >> i don't know what to say. is that happening now, chris, you know what, happy new year in advance because wow. >> that's the least of my problems. hey, i got to ask you something. >> yeah. >> i got to ask you something. >> not about a piecing, please. let's go. keep going. >> no, never. the idea of all these trials, you know, it's not a coincidence. this is society on trial right now. these are really important questions. we haven't even gotten to the reproductive rights stuff yet with the supreme court in the mississippi case but ahmaud ar arbery, rittenhouse, wisconsin isn't a good law the stand your
ground vibe of self-defense laws make it easier to kill. this ahmaud arbery case, though, the one guy, the buddy whose lawyer calls him an idiot basically, they guy should have within a witness in this case turned by the state but what happens, laura, if they don't get the dad, they don't get rodey but they get the man that shot and killed ahmaud arbery but not on the highest charges? is that justice? >> i would say if i'm the family of ahmaud arbery, anything short of a full conviction after the video people have seen would not feel like justice to me. i watched his mother in the courtroom having to leave the courtroom, having to endure what she's gone through but eventually, it will be in the hands of jurors. we'll decide where the prosecution met its burden but that videotape and what we've seen. this is personal to me in the sense that every time if my husband says he wants to go out for a run, ahmaud arbery crosses
my mind. the idea of just running, the idea of debating whether to get a treadmill inside your house to be able to run outside as a black man in this country is a debate in conversation happening all across this country for far too many. we talked about the debate and the conversation with your kids. there are right now these conversations between people who love one another who are asking what will keep them safe and so you talk about justice coming down to just one trial, justice has to be more expansive. the idea of what it's like to not have a fear, a feeling of inevide inev ininevitable when i can have a conversation with my husband, he goes out for a run and i don't hold my bereath the entire time >> i can't wait to hear the defense counsel justify him having long dirty toenails.
>> don't hold your breathe for that. there is no reason for that. they know why. >> they know why. >> i know why. we'll see if 12 jurors know why. laura coates, nobody will cover it better than you, that's why you're the upgrade. >> thank you. appreciate you. have a good night. >> you, too. this is "don lemon tonight." i'm laura coates in for don. we got headline news on multiple big stories tonight. jury deliberations expected to begin tomorrow in the trial of three white men accused of chasing down and killing ahmaud arbery, a 25-year-old unarmed black man running through a georgia neighborhood. the crime ugly. what we heard from the defense was ugly, too. one attorney disspaparaginge dispadisparaging ahmaud ar arbery's presence and one saying he wanted more bubbas on the jury, no black pastors in the courtroom and compared a prayer
rally in support of the victims family to a lynching. that as the committee investigating the riot at the united states capitol on january 6th issues a new round of subpoenas that to the former president's allies including roger stone and conspiracy theorists alex jones. plus, in the latest in the civil trial against the organizers of the deadly unite the right rally in charlottesville, i want to go right to the trial of three men accused of killing ahmaud arbery. cnn's savidge has that. >> reporter: protests outside the glen county courthouse have grown in size and volume. for the first time, armed citizens with semiautomatic weapons were seen patrolling the perimeter of the courthouse grounds while inside the attorneys began making closing arguments. travis mcmichael, his father gregory mcmichael face charges
for the killing of 25-year-old jogger ahmaud arbery. >> this case is about assumptions and driveway decisions. they made their decision to attack ahmaud arbery in their driveways because he was a black man running down the street. >> reporter: and reminding the jury the definition of a citizen's arrest according to the law. >> they never, ever said on february 23rd, 2020 that they were doing a citizen's arrest. a citizen's arrest is for emergency situations when the crime really happens right in front of you. they never said that. none of the defendants saw mr. arbery commit any crime that day. >> travis mcmichael's defense attorney trying to drive home the argument his client was simply acting out of civic duty and responsibresponsibility. >> travis mcmichael spent almost a decade of his life learning about duty and responsibility. >> reporter: arguing to the jury
his quote duty was necessary that february day. >> this neighborhood was being covered in suspicious persons, in extra watches, in neighborhood patrols, in concerned citizens. >> reporter: insisting arbery's presence was suspicious. >> there is no evidence whatsoever that it was a place of exercise and jogging for ahmaud arbery. >> reporter: gregory mcmichael's attorney said arbery was in the neighborhood up to no good saying that was obvious by his appearance. >> does not reflect the reality of what brought ahmaud arbery to the neighborhood. he has khaki shorts with no socks to cover his long dirty toenails. >> reporter: laura repeated over and over that arbery was to blame for his own death. >> he was a reoccurring
nighttime intruder and that is frightening and unsettling. >> reporter: and william brian's attorney kevin golf arguing there wouldn't be a trial were it not for his client, his cell phone and the video he took. >> rodney bryant didn't shoot anyone. at the time of the shooting he was some distance back. he was armed only with his cell phone. isn't it time, isn't it time, ladies and gentlemen, that we send rodney brian home? >> reporter: the growing protests outside the court threatened the proceedings. the presence of demonstrators with guns had brian's attorney kevin goff again motioning for a mistrial. it was denied. the judge did say he decided to move the jury dell liiberations an interior room of the courthouse to keep jurors out of
side. th the family of arbery appreciated the protesters but urged them to be peaceful. >> we cannot allow anything to disrupt justice in this case. >> reporter: the family of a ahmaud arbery and their attorneys were outraged. they could not believe the victim in this case was turned into the villain by the defense attorneys in their closing arguments. not only blaming ahmaud arbery for his own death but then the way that they physically described him in court they just could not believe it. meanwhile in closing arguments will continue on the part of the prosecution tomorrow and gentlemen, the jury is expected to get the case to begin deliberations. laura? >> thank you, martin. i want to bring in michael moore. he's a former u.s. attorney for the middle district of georgia and joey jackson, he's a criminal defense attorney and
cnn legal analyst. glad to have you both. i can't help but shake my head when i hear the description of how the defense tried to characterize the victim in this case. michael, let me bring you in. just the prosecution's rebuttal is left tomorrow and this case in the hands of the jury. i want to know what you think of the closing arguments today and what side do you think was most effective? >> i'm glad to be on. i think the prosecution carried the day in the arguments. i think she was methodical when she went through dismantling the argument of self-defense. i wasn't particularly impressed with the defense closing arguments as you know sometimes you dance with what bring ya when you're sitting on that side of the aisle. i thought the efforts to make arbery out as somehow like he was a villain until the neighborhood was a mistake and i thought that talking about the neighborhood sort of in this way
bewa we want our neighborhood the way we want it and saying as long as the neighborhood is us, i thought that was probably an over reach. i recognize they got to defend the clients and let me address sort of the toenail comment. i know some of the lawyers in the case. they're friends of mine and good lawyers and so i know them personally and i don't make assumptions about their motive or bias racial feelings based on that because i know them not to be racist. and i think -- i do think the toenail comment was over the edge. the only thing i can think of and had me scratching my head because they are friends of mine. i know them. why would you say this? what is the motive? let me throw this out. if maybe during the jury selection the defense lawyers learn some of the jurors or just one because you just need to have one was a runner, avid
runner, marathon runner, whatever it is, they would be particularly in tune with sort of the care that runners take with their feet and what can happen and, you know, this kind of thing. >> michael, i'm sorry, i'm shaking my head because it's not even passing the straight face test for me. you know, i know you're trying. i know you said you know them personally but the idea of them not wearing socks, i see white people run without socks on in khaki shorts all the time. maybe it a washington d.c. thing. i'm also from minnesota. i see people running in those shoes that don't have the laces on them, joey, the ones that just have your pfeet in them lie a monster foot. i don't see any justification how that would move the needle but i hear you when you say this is part of sort of the attempt at a defense but joey, you're a defense attorney here and i got to ask you. you know, what did you make of the self-defense claim here? only one of them took the stand. they didn't really call any
other witnesses. you have them saying he didn't feel threatened by ahmaud arbery shouting or grabbing the gun. what did you make of the defense? >> yeah, laura, good to be with you. first, to the toenail comment. i thought it was deplorable and reprehensible and in this particular trial, it's part of a larger pattern. you have to look initially at the 11-1 mix in the jury and not be stereostereotypical. people can make independent judgments black, white, who they love and where they pray. the reality is that it seemed to be sis mat tick matic by the de the outset. it's further troubling and go into the courtroom i know this isn't your question, laura, you have one particular attorney constantly questioning the integrity of black past to past don't want them and an attorney
dehumanizing and revictimizing the person who is dead and in addition to that, laura, listen to the closing, it's our neighborhood. it was clear to me who she was playing to and i think that's reprehensible. i'm a defense attorney and glad to be but i think cases have to be about issues, cases have to be about justifications, cases have to be about a narrative that's resinating not predicated upon race but what is predicating upon facts very quickly to your point, i thought the defense fell flat in every regard. i thought the prosecutor really brought it home where citizens arrest law what? we don't have a crime here that he's committing. we don't have it certainly in your press sence or immediately knowledge of. there was nothing of him being in the construction site for 12 days before that. she completely nullified that showing there was no justification for chasing him. last point, she nullified theish shaw of self-defense by pointing
out the exceptions. you doesn't get it if you provo someone and certainly don't get it if you're committing a felony. i think the defense had an uphill battle to address that but address it in the manner they did, we have to play fair in this ethics in what we do. we know that, laura, michael, yo u know that. we fight hard for our clients and do everything we can within the bounds of the law but tran send that and call the character into question when you say things like that that are just reprehensible and i don't care what justification was provided, it's not enough for me. >> michael, i'll give you the final word here on this point. your point earlier is well taken. the idea you have to dance with what bring ya. i know that phrase. they work with the fact they have. you know, i know as a prosecutor that i would relish the opportunity to have my rebuttal be the first thing and the last thing they hear tomorrow before they deliberate. that's a good strategy for the prosecution.
will it be enough, do you think? >> it's always good to have your argument closest to the jury deliberations. i think you want them -- the proximity of the argument to the time they go out to think about it is important but let me say this. i mean, the defense attorneys and i have from the outset of this case said there should be convictions and i still believe there should be convictions but i also appreciate the fact that people have to defend folks. and that's not always an easy job and sometimes you push things. nobody expects when the defense is self-defense to extol the v virtues of the victim. when people are facing life in prison, i'm sure the lawyers are using what they can to combat it. here i imagine they were trying to say he's not a jogger through the neighborhood. he's been out here before. he's here for no other reason. whatever it is and again, we can
disagree with it personally and i do and that's what i tried to say. >> the problem, michael, briefly, there is a manner to do that. we know in this profession it's very difficult and we know we represent people in some very extreme circumstances but you have to thread that needle. yes, you have to defend your climate. yes, you have to say you're an immediate fear. you i have to say there are issues in the neighborhood that were amiss and i believe this is the issue but to completely dehumanize someone, what does nails or something else? i don't get it. i'll win cases and lose cases but i think i'll try the best i can to do what is ethically proper and not bury and nail the coffins of the dead and i just thought there is very little justification and all due deaf france to you knowing these people. the reality is i'm a little appalled and feeling badly for my profession on the defense you would stoop that low. >> obviously, your points are
both well taken. ahmaud arbery according to the prosecution was fighting for his life and the defense attorney is using this to fight for their client's life but it's up to the jury, not just us to talk about this and i want to bring in -- thank you, fellas. nice talking to you. i want to turn to robert who is a jury and trial consultant and i'm curious to hear his take because of course, ultimately it will go into the hands of the jury and as much as i can be appalled or joey or michael or anyone can have their view points about what precisely was said at the closing or any other state in time, the key is what did the jurors cumulatively understand and how will they take it? i want to ask you, robert, and welcome i'm glad your 're here. i want to start with what happened at the end of the day? the jury decided they wanted to hear the prosecution's rebuttal tomorrow morning rather than continue i want what i'm say
telling you about the advantage and what they're thinking about that. >> thank you for having me. you're doing a great job. >> thank you. >> let's talk. you got it. let's talk about this jury. lawyers love closing arguments but the reality is it's the least important part of the trial, most jurors have made up their mind by now. what happened with this is they wanted to go home. they've had enough. they know they weren't going to reach a verdict today by the way laura, i think it will be a verdict coming in before thanksgiving. so they wanted to, you know, have the night to rest because they have a big day tomorrow. it's advantage to go last because remember, remember the theme about rodey, the only thing that guy shot was the video.
but for that video, you've got no case here so i think the prosecution is going to have a big advantage in the morning because she's going to get two hours no response from the defense, that's good but i got the tell you, laura, with respect to a couple defendants, i think the state has problems with their case and problems as i've said with the filmer with rodey. they have problems with the dad's case. travis' case, the shooter, i think that is the strongest case that the prosecution has but i want to say because you're really great wondering what the jury thinks about it. only one black juror with an opinion and actually pursued for as long. how do you think the jury is
going to address the role that race may have played i use the term may have played loosely in arbery's killing knowing they're sitting for a federal hate crime prosecution, as well? >> yeah, so they've got one black juror in there with them. i think that black juror is going to have a lot of power back in that jury room. okay? because those other jurors and by the way, i want tore clear with everybody. those defense lawyers, we may think what they did was reprehensible but they're not playing to the court of public opinion. they're playing to that jury and that courtroom. they're playing to those 11 white jurors that are in there and i'm going to talk truth to power right now, laura. you ready? they wanted bubbas and they were talking to bubbas. that pathetic line about the dirty toenails, that was straight dog whistle is all that was. they are playing to that jury because what they're trying to do is get the jury to feed into stereo types that they have that
they want to keep their homes safe and we got to be careful about people that come into our neighborhoods and the only point i want to make is i really hope the prosecutor says tomorrow close your eyes. and if those three men, if the man that was running was white and the three men that were chasing after him were black, what would your verdict be? it ought to be the exact same in either case. so the defense lawyers are playing to that jury. that's all they care about is that jury. the prosecutors, they want to inpassion the jury with they have to treat everyone the same. people that are gun owners and conservative are much more lenient and much more accepting of self-defense and that's the mo mountain the prosecution has to fight against with the filmer and the dad in terms of the season who shot the man, we'll see. i think he'll be convicted of
something. we'll see what it is. >> we'll see what it is and if you're right. the voir dire process probably contemplated each aspect of it and the idea of asking questions to surmise somebody's ability to be impartial with perhaps a wink. thank you for your time. appreciate it. >> thank you, laura. the january 6th committee issues a new round of subpoenas that targeting trump allies including roger stone and alex jones. what do they know? and what is the committee looking to find out from them?
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more subpoenas that tonight from the house committee investigating the capitol insurrection setting sights squarely on the stop the steal rally planners including trump allies roger stone and alex jones. joining me now to discuss, cnn senior law enforcement analyst and former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe. nice to see down. a lot going on tonight and the committee is issuing subpoenas that for five people including roger stone, alex jones, two pushers by the way of the big lie. so what does this tell you about where their investigation is
truly focussed, andrew? >> laura, i think it's clear that the committee is really focussed not so much on the mechanics of the assault on the capitol but rather the planning, the recruiting, the raising of funds and the decisions that were made in the days leading up to january 6th. a lot of that focus is on the activity and individuals around the so-called war room at the willard hotel. many of these folks fall into that category. >> so kind of the premeditation leading up, not a coincidence january 6th happened. that's the theme of this and the committee saying that roger stone was reportedly using the oath keepers as personal security guards while he was in washington d.c. and that one of them of course has been indicted for involvement in the capitol riot. so this is an example of what they're trying to figure out, maybe a possible connection between the rally planners and what was going on on capitol hill? >> absolutely because you know that gets to the very heart of the issue with the planners is
was violence ever a part of the plan? you know, we know all the different steps that the trump administration went through to kind of, you know, to try to force the vice president not to certify the election and to mount their legal attacks. so the question is when all of those efforts fail, was the final step that they were prepared to take actually inspiring and driving the violent assault on the capitol? was that part of the plan? it will be interesting to see if they can peel down to that. >> and whether a subpoena lies for the president himself donald trump. andrew mccabe, thank you for your time. >> thanks, laura. a lot of trials happening right now that have the entire country watching as you well know. but the one without cameras in the courtroom could just have the biggest inmplications for democracy and civility in this country. i'll make my case next. excuse me! roll it back everybody! charmin ultra soft is so cushiony soft, you'll want more!
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a jury in virginia will continue deliberations tomorrow in the civil trial over the 2017 unite the right rally. this is not a criminal trial where the prosecution is required to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. it's a civil trial where plaintiffs must prove their case with evidence meaning it's more
likely than not the defendants engaged in wrongdoing. ten plaintiffs have sued ten white supremacists and nationalists organizations and 14 individuals claiming that the violence that occurred over two days in august of 2017 was no coincidence. plaintiffs that include town residents now seek to hold the defendants financially accountable to the tune of millions for their physical, emotional and psychological harm. now unlike the successful criminal prosecution of james alex fields junior who is serving two consecutive life sentences for plowing his car into a group of protesters killing heather heyer and injuring many others, this case has not been brought by
prosecutors, instead, this case is brought by private litigants under a 150-year-old law called the ku klux klan act. the law was enacted after the civil war to allow private citizens to sue other citizens for civil rights violations in federal court. but like a prosecutor, they must still prove their case. the defendants claim they were simply exercising their first amendment right to protest because law enforcement failed to maintain order and they only reacted to violence they did not initiate it. well, the jury will be back tomorrow morning for now a third day of deliberations and those 12 jurors they have been asked to decide whether there were very fine people on both sides or just right and wrong. next, getting kyle rittenhouse's
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and complete required activities. kyle rittenhouse's first interview airing tonight giving an exclusive to carl tucker son. listen. >> this case has nothing to do with race. it never had anything to do with race. it had to do be right to self-defense. i'm not a racist person. i support the bml movement and peacefully demonstrating and i believe there needs to be change. i believe there is a lot of prosecution misconduct, not just in my case but other cases and it's just amazing to see how much a prosecutor can take advantage of somebody like if
they did this to me, imagine what they could have done to a person of color that maybe doesn't have the resources i do or not widely publicized like my case. >> and it's not just tonight's interview, the fox team followed rittenhouse throughout the trial for what they're calling a documentary. joining me now, cnn senior media reporter oliver darcy and elliott williams. glad to have you both here. elliott, let me start with you. i want to know what do you think about what rittenhouse said there? >> look, he shouldn't be talking. if i were his attorney and i think any sound attorney would just advice him to keep his mouth shut for a couple reasons. number one, he's going to be sued for wrongful death and a number of things. he may believe he has a righteous moral or political case to be made but at the end of the day he'll face a number of lawsuits and everything he says on the record here ultimately can come back to bite him. so number one there is -- he has a huge interest in not talking.
number two -- >> you know, ocn that point, hi attorney said he's not worried about civil suits. is he worried about glass half full or naive or trying to down play it? >> i think he's down playing it. any attorney knows that an individual who commits an act of homicide, don't say that as an insult. he acknowledged he did it will face those kinds of civil suits and again, being followed around by a camera crew, he might have waived attorney client privilege if someone else is in the room. there is all kinds of legal risks and pretty unwise to take that on. >> you know, oliver, to elliott's point the idea of just advising your client not to speak. kyle rittenhouse's own attorney did not approve of the access fox was getting. li listen to this, oliver. >> i did not approve of that. i threw them out of the room
sel several times. i'm not suggesting fox or some other network. i don't think a film crew is appropriate for something like this but the people who were raising the money to pay for the experts and to pay for the attorneys were trying to raise money and that was part of it. >> oliver, tell me more about that. what do you know? >> it's certainly intriguing his attorney is coming out and saying he was not comfortable with some of the fox cameras but if you did watch tucker carlson's previous coverage of him, it sort of makes sense, right? tucker carlson is extremely sympathetic to rittenhouse's case and if you watched the interview tonight he compliments him and calls him a sweet kid, those are carl tucker son's words, not mine. he is not on excusing his actions on that night but really saying that we need more people like kyle rittenhouse in society. and so it's not too surprising i
guess from a public relations standpoint if you're handing out an interview to someone, you know, tucker carlson has the biggest microphone on the right. he's certainly talking to an audience very sympathetic to his case. >> a double edge sword comes with that. here is more from the interview because he's explaining what he said to police right after by the way he killed two people and injured a third. here he is. >> i said hey, i just had to shoot somebody. i just had to shoot somebody and then they say go home and i didn't know this until -- >> go home? >> yeah. the officer said to go home. i don't think he knew what happened or heard me. there was a lot of chaos going on. >> yes. >> i mean, elliott, he says his case is not about race but just looking at this objectively, police tell him to go home. i mean, this says something about the justice system to you,
doesn't it, elliott? >> i mean, to some extent. we're seeing this playing out down in brunswick, georgia right now and sort of the freedom and flexibility that people have flowing. it's hard to envision a scenario a young 17-year-old black kid with an ar-15 is treated the same way but look, that's where we are. he's spoken quite clearly, kyle rittenhouse has about how kind the police were to him. so yes, it does say something quite profound about the justice system. >> well, i mean, oliver, i've got to ask you speaking of tucker carlson and his reaction. there is two fox contributors that quit the network over tucker's january 6th quote unquote documentary that was just a conspiracy latent push for the big lie to be honest. what are they saying? >> this is remarkable. these are not only two conservative fox news
contributors but really the backbone for sometime of the intellectual conservative media movement. so for them to quit says something about where fox has gone where these two people have been sidelined. they're no longer comfortable working at an organization like fox and it's because according to them, tucker carlson and the things he's promoting on his program. it's beyond conservative policies but really promoting things like 1/6 truth and that makes them uncomfortable and they had to quit. >> rising sea levels, extreme pollution, disease, these are threats to the whole world but some minority low income communities in this country are facing much higher levels of threat. cnn goes there, next.
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the climate crisis, extreme weather and rising rates of disease from pollution are problems that potentially affect all americans, but often it is low income communities and people of color who bear the brunt of those growing threats. and some areas of louisiana are a prime example. here is cnn's rene marsh. >> it has been nearly three months since hurricane ida, a category 4 storm slammed louisiana. yet, this small black community of ironton looks like the storm hit yesterday. >> they have people who lost everything, and they don't know where they are going to get the next meal from. >> reporter: what is that like knowing that every hurricane
season, you don't know that you will lose everything? >> i have never been to war, but i can imagine that a young man who has been to war, and has post-traumatic stress. >> reporter: and steps away from the homes, the caskets with the dead inside are steps away, and the resting place has not been returned after floodwaters have fosted them from their resting site. >> it is heartbreaking to see that nobody has really tried to put them back. >> reporter: this is in plaquemines parish south of new orleans. much of the area is below sea level and the dubious distinction of one of the fastest vanishing places on the planet due to climate-induced sea rise. a study found that minorities are more likely to live on land that is endangered by rising sea levels and more likely to die
from extreme temperatures. but the temperatures are not the only dangers, a drive from new orleans to baton rouge reveals an 85-mile stretch of more than 100 petroleum and chemical companies that have sandwiched whole neighborhoods while spewing emissions and more vulnerable to climate change and more exposed to pollutants and it is the proverbial one-two punch that michael everly came to see from the biden administration. the general feeling is that the government has failed them. >> i think that the federal and the state government has failed them in effectively communicating and being transparent and offering them some levels of relief. >> reporter: failing people like 81-year-old robert taylor a life-long resident of cancer alley, a place where the highest cancer rate is concentrated.
>> we want him to stop the slaughter. this is outright slaughter. >> reporter: these are all of taylor's family members diagnosed with cancer. almost everyone here has a cancer story. >> when you look at how much industry is here, and the suffering that we are seeing, there has to be a correlation. >> reporter: the state has not declared this a public health emergency. are you prepared to go against that? >> we are going to assess the data, and we are going to follow the facts and the science and follow the law. >> reporter: and so, the people within these louisiana communities did get a commitment to fix the decades of environmental justice, but what we did not hear from the administrator is a specific time line for when he is going to have deliverables for the communities, and these people within the community are very clear that they want to see action, and there is a level of urgency. as far as the caskets in the
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