tv CNN Newsroom With Poppy Harlow and Jim Sciutto CNN November 24, 2021 6:00am-7:00am PST
>> joining us now, cnn senior national correspondent sara sidner who is outside the courthouse in brunswick, georgia, this morning. after more than six hours yesterday, the jury is back at it this morning. what more do we know this morning, sara? >> reporter: we know a little bit about where this jury is because of what they told the judge last night. the judge called them in about 6:00 p.m., which is the longest they have been in court. and asked them if they were close to a verdict. and in other words, did they want to stay a little longer or did they want to break for the night and come back and try again today. and what the foreperson says gives you some sense. it sounded as if as first they wanted to stay longer. they said we're in the process of working to reach a verdict. and so it gives you some idea of where they are, and they may, for example, have been closer than everyone thought last night. but they eventually decided that it was time to break and they would come back and try again
this morning. we know that they started sharp around 8:30 this morning. and that they will deliberate until they reach a verdict. it sounded as if they were going towards that, they did not give any indication that they were hung or that they were having trouble coming up with a decision. that's what we heard from the foreperson yesterday. and as you know, they listened to closing arguments on monday. and then as in every trial, the prosecution gets the last word, the prosecution gets to rebutt, have a rebuttal argument, to sum up their case, and those are the last words that the jury hears, but as you know, it is not about the closing arguments, those help the jury understand from each side where they're coming from, but they have to look at the evidence. in this case, there are nine charges for each of the three defendants including murder and aggravated assault. and so you'll have this jury looking through a lot of information, ultimately the arguments go like this, the prosecution says these three men had no business going after
ahmaud arbery who was running down the street in february of 2020, they tried to act like police and didn't involve police until much later on once they had already started to chase him and that he was just trying to save his own life. the defense goes like this, the defense says that the guys were trying to arrest him, make a citizen's arrest because they believed he had committed a crime. ultimately a burglary, they said. and that they were in fear for their life. there was mcmichael who shot and killed him was in fear for his life when he shot him, saying ahmaud arbery had gone after his gun. as you might imagine, arbery was being chased down by men who were not police, didn't know what was going on at the time and suddenly found himself as the prosecution said cornered by these two -- three men and in two different trucks. i want to let you listen to benjamin crump, who has been here with the family, helping to represent the family along with lee merritt. there have been a lot of racial over and undertones in this trial and some moments that have been very upsetting to the
family. >> to say that we refuse to allow black pastors in, it was just so arrogant. it was the essence of white supremacy mentality, almost like thinking because a black man is jogging, that ordinary white citizens can stop him and make him comply. and if he dares not follow their orders, then they have the right to kill him. and to say that that's okay. >> reporter: so you heard there from benjamin crump, who has been with the family and hearing their concerns throughout this trial. we have also heard from the attorney for william "roddie" bryan, he was the person who did not know greg mcmichael and travis mcmichael, but took part in this chase. and his attorney says he expects his client to be exonerated in this case. the jury is the one that decides all this.
and we're just waiting for that, expecting to hopefully hear something, sometime soon. guys, back to you. >> that's surprising to hear, attorneys think they're going to win a case. joining us to discuss law attorney paige pate. as erica was noting earlier you tweeted yesterday, sounds like we won't have to worry about a hung jury. that's based on what sara was describing their answer to the judge's questions about perhaps how close they could be to a decision here. you spent a lot of time in a courtroom. tell us why you think that. >> if a jury is having trouble reaching a consensus, reaching agreement on a verdict, you're going to see that early and they're going to indicate to the judge that, you know, they're having difficulty. and eventually if they continue to have difficulty, you get to the point where the judge may declare a hung verdict. what we saw yesterday is a group of people that seem to be in agreement, and it seems they're getting close to reaching a verdict. i think that's a great sign.
the other reason i think we're not going to see a hung jury, unless we hear this morning a request to see more evidence. normally if you have one or two people on the jury who don't want to go along with the rest, they're going to demand to watch the video again or see some piece of evidence that came in during the trial to try to prove their point. this jury has not requested to see any of all of the videos that were introduced in this trial one more time. and that surprises me. but it certainly suggests that we have some agreement on the jury, probably heading for a verdict later today. >> it is so interesting you point that out, that they haven't asked for the evidence. it is also, right, as we heard they may have been close to a verdict, there are still multiple charges and these are all intertwines, charges that apply individually and to them as a group. how does that impact the deliberations for a jury when they're dealing with charges of that nature? >> if you compare this trial to the rittenhouse case, i think
this is a much easier case. the arbery case, the mcmichael, roddie bryan case for the jury to sort through because we're dealing with one victim. and rittenhouse, there were multiple victims. so even though we have a lot of different counts in this trial, it is not as complicated. felony murder is a life sentence, regardless of which count the jury may find them guilty on. and this is one of those cases where i think we're going to see across the board guilty or across the board not guilty because they were either engaged in a felony offense that resulted in ahmaud arbery's death, or they were conducting a lawful citizen's arrest. the only exception to that analysis is william roddie bryan. the judge div good this jury the option of finding him guilty on lesser charges, misdemeanor charges. so his case say bit different, but for the other two, i think it is all or nothing. >> we'll be watching, page pate, stay with us as we are all still on verdict watch here. meantime, do also want to get
you caught up on the other headlines we're following on this wednesday morning. an 8-year-old boy, we learned, has died in waukesha, wisconsin. he's the latest fatality in that christmas parade tragedy from sunday. jackson sparks, you see his sweet face right there, died from injuries which he suffered after that suv plowed through crowds of people. ultimately now six lives taken, more than 60 injured. >> that poor little boy and his poor parents. the man responsible, the man police say is responsible, darrell brooks, is being held on a $5 million bail. he faces at least five counts of intentional homicide. that number likely to rise with the death toll. one officer says that brooks displayed no emotion as they tried to slow him down. cnn's adrian broadous is live in waukesha, wisconsin. one officer said brooks as we noted -- noting there showed no emotion as he drove toward the crowd. how did the police witness this?
>> reporter: that's what one officer said and that was detailed in a criminal complaint yesterday when we were at the court for brooks' initial hearing. he rocked, swaying back and forth throughout the entire proceeding. his eyes almost looked as if they were tearing up. here in waukesha, you see behind me, tributes continue to pour in. we are at this memorial site and for much of the week there were five crosses, now there are six. that sixth cross recognizing the child that died after sustaining injuries on sunday. he was 8-year-old jackson sparks. according to a go fund me page, his family says he had brain surgery on sunday, on that page the family wrote jackson needed a miracle, unfortunately the family didn't get the miracle they were hoping for. jackson's 12-year-old brother did survive. he was expected to be released
from children's wisconsin hospital on tuesday. his brother, tucker, who i mentioned, is 12, also sustained injuries including a fractured skull. this all happened after brooks, who has now been charged with five counts of first degree intentional homicide, plowed down that stretch of main street on sunday. like so many families, the sparks were there enjoying the parade. his bail has been set at $5 million cash. and during the initial hearing yesterday, the prosecutor said she knows this is an extraordinarily high bail, but she took about ten minutes outlining his criminal history. history spanning the last 20 years or so, jim and erica. and she said that is why she was requesting that high bail. now, we also learned yesterday that the number of people who were injured was nearly 62.
a tremendous amount of grief here, just days before thanksgiving. jim and erica? >> adrienne, appreciate it, thank you. still to come this hour, millions of americans hitting the road for the thanksgiving holiday. you may be among them. so what can you expect on the roads and in the skies? we will let you know next. plus, the january 6th select committee, issuing subpoenas for two extremist groups, the committee chair says they have information, critical, to how the violence erupted on the capitol. and a space mission that could one day save the planet. details on nasa's plan to crash into an asteroid and why coming up. is struggling to manage your type 2 diabetes knocking you out of your zone? lowering your a1c with once-weekly ozempic® can help you get back in it. oh, oh, oh, ozempic®!
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for the first time, weekly jobless claims fell below prepandemic levels. last week's jobless claims totalling 199,000, when adjusted for seasonal swings. >> that's the lowest since 1969. that's even older than me. even older than me. cnn chief business correspondent christine romans joins us with more. christine, it is another example of the disconnect here, right? you got unemployment below 5%, stock market setting new records and numbers like this, and yet people rate the economy as being worse than, you know, in the midst of the financial crisis. what is going on? >> i think that's a really good point, jim, here. very important. these are layoffs. these are a very low number of layoffs and here's why. in a tight labor market when the
economy is recovering so strongly, you don't want to lay off workers if you don't have to, we are seeing conditions back to where they are before the pandemic. this could reverse next week, economists are telling me. the trend is absolutely in the right direction and that's why i have a smile on my face, because this means that the labor market is still healing and that's incredibly important here. you know, the labor market suffered something that we have never seen before, millions of people thrown out of work right after a coronavirus hit in march of 2020. and we're still getting back to normal and normalizing from that. but, you're right, people feel sour about the economy because of two things, covid exhaustion, right, and inflation higher gas prices, you know, it is just -- those are the things they're feeling now. these other signals in the economy are showing a very robust recovery, probably the strongest economy in the u.s. in years if not decades when it is all said and done at the end of the year, guys. >> it is amazing that the disconnect, as you point out, christine, i'm happy to see you smiling on this day before
thanksgiving. >> there were some grim days there, year and a half ago. happy vaxxgiving, a new kind of holiday for us. >> i'm happy it is bringing people back together. whether you are driving or flying for your thanksgiving this year, prepare yourself, because you're likely not going to be the only one out there. lots of crowds expected, the number of travelers expected to be near prepandemic levels and that is a major test for the airline industry. the tsa expected to screen more than 20 million passengers in the next ten days. >> not just air travel, if you're planning on hitting the roads, gas prices as i'm sure you've seen, they're the highest they have been in years. pete muntean and dianne gallagher join us now. travelers, those going by road, they don't seem to be deterred by the gas prices. >> are they at all? the triple a forecast says 48 million people will hit the road for the thanksgiving holiday, which is so interesting is that the numbers aren't really all
that far off from where we were back before the pandemic, down about only 3% from 2019, which also is so interesting here is that people are really going to swallow the cost, the price of gas, seven-year high, $3.40 for a gallon of regular on average across the country. that is up about $1.30 from we are were this time last year. the bottom line, the expense is back, the traffic is back, and aaa says so interestingly this is really not going to keep people off the road during this holiday weekend. >> there is a lot more confidence, people are feeling better about traveling. and no matter what the gas prices are, and they are quite a bit higher than last year, people are still going to take that trip. >> the worst time to drive, according to aaa, in general, is between noon and 8:00 p.m. today. so you might have to wait for the traffic to die down until after 9:00 p.m. tonight.
the maryland transportation authority which runs this transit center here in aberdeen, maryland, between wilmington and baltimore, responsible for this portion of i-95, and they say that you mite ght want to wait until after 11:00 p.m. tonight for traffic to die down on i-95. >> all good advice. that's what we're dealing with on the roads. in terms of the airports, how are they dealing with the surge in passengers? there is always a staffing question these days. >> reporter: and that is something that is going to factor into this. here at the airport in charlotte, the lines at tsa have been ebbing and flowing throughout the day. at one point, that line reached back to where i'm standing here. so we're seeing levels that, well, much like pete said, are looking more like the prepandemic airport levels on both monday and tuesday, the tsa screened more than 2 million passengers. that's 90% of what they did in
2019. and the truth is most of the people in this airport today probably haven't been at an airport since 2019. there are a lot of changes and so in addition to dealing with the crowds, there are also passengers that cope with new rules and restrictions because of the pandemic. we have seen some of the issues with airlines over the past month, dealing with staffing, multiple canceled flights for some of the airlines. each one of them say they feel like they're prepared for this thanksgiving holiday. the busiest day they're expecting at least as far as air travel goes will be this coming sunday for thanksgiving travel. so if you're traveling that day, they say to get here extra early. >> diane, i'll be at an airport soon and we'll see what it is like, pete muntean thanks so much to both of you. although president biden is now tapping into the strategic petroleum reserve to help fight higher fuel costs, do not expect lower gas prices just yet. experts say it will take weeks before those 50 million barrels
of oil hit the market. joining me now to talk about this and much more, republican congressman don bacon of the cornhusker state, nebraska. he serves on the armed services and agriculture committees. good morning, congressman. good to have you back on the show. >> good morning, jim. thank you for having me on. >> first, i want to start with the economic numbers. there is a disconnect here. you see them, these are the lowest unemployment claims since 1969, unemployment overall below 5%. economic growth this quarter is forecast to be very strong. is the economy as bad as republicans say it is? because when you look at a lot of these numbers, beyond inflation, which i know hurts, you look at the economic indicators, very strong economy. >> there are some contradictions. first of all, i'm glad unemployment is so low. that's great for our country. great for america, and nebraska it is 1.9%, the lowest of all 50 states. here is the contradictions, inflation, which is 6.25%.
highest of 30 years. here is the other area particularly bad in nebraska. our workforce participation rate is at 61%. that is really low. and should be about 66 or 67% which means about 50% of the companies, small businesses want to hire people, they can't find anyone. we got to get these other people, 10% of the workforce that left during covid, we got to get them back into the workforce so we can grow stronger with our economy. so there is some good news and some problems in our economy as well. >> on the issue of gas prices, a lot of folks will be filling up today, and they're going to see higher gas prices. you called the move to release these barrels from the strategic petroleum reserve a dog chasing tail strategy. i wonder what your strategy would be to lower gas prices, because as you know, oil prices around the world are up. this is a problem across the world. this is largely an international problem. what is the domestic policy solution in your view.
>> there are multiple factors to the higher -- high prices. president biden, i think, shares some of the burden of these high prices. first day as president, he made restrictions on drilling and production for oil and natural gas and federal lands. and so the markets received in the future are reduced supply. and i think that is part of the higher costs, i also disagreed with those canceling of the keystone pipeline and at the same time, promoted the russian pipeline in europe. but i think by reducing our production, that has an impact on the markets and the perceptions what the future supply will be, so i think he shares some of the fault for these higher prices. >> let's talk infrastructure. you were one of the 13 house republicans who voted to pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill. it has been interesting because some of your republican colleagues who voted against it are now touting an i'm sure
you've seen some of the tweets touting some of the money coming to their districts from this plan that they voted against. what do you say to your colleagues who voted against it and yet seem to be claiming credit for it, particularly as you get flack for that vote. >> i'm more concerned about those who are trying to kick ooff john from being the ranking member on the homeland security committee and things like that. i believe infrastructure should be a republican issue. abraham lincoln, built the transcontinental railroad, eisenhower, the interstate system. we should have embraced this. and this is something for over a decade we have been wanting to do, we have not made major investments in infrastructure in over 40 years, a strong infrastructure is good for national security, good for commerce, great for our exports, and also for public safety. so i thought this was a good bill, wasn't a great bill, and so i wish our team would have embraced it, and it was a
mistake, i think like in august when the senate passed it, 19 republican votes, our leadership should have said, hey, we demand a bill be put on the floor now, not to be tied to the social infrastructure bill, and we could have embraced it in that way. but this is -- i think there is going to be a lot of great projects done through this bill. i'll give you one example, our locks, on the mississippi rivers and the ohio rivers, are 90 years old. brazil is building locks that are three times larger. we have to compete in this area if we want better exports. >> i hear you. i do want to ask you about leadership. you mensementioned it, you have odd dynamic now, where you have republicans for them to be removed from their committees. you have the presumptive next speaker of the house kevin mccarthy saying if he's speaker, he's going to put folks like congressman gosar, marjorie taylor greene, back on their committees, despite many of the controversial things that they have said. even spouting conspiracy theories. you said you're looking for some leadership that has a compass.
do you believe that kevin mccarthy has a compass to lead republicans in the house? >> i appreciate the words he said last week when he said we should be focused on the future. that is the bottom line. and we have a minority in our conference who are not. and we have to remember there are a small group, but they're loud. i wish leadership privately, not publicly, privately should say this is divisive. polling shows republicans up 11% in generic polling for congress. that's huge. that's one of the biggest in history. that could be a 50 to 70 seat pickup. if we divide ourselves, we are undermining that opportunity next year and we shouldn't let that happen. i'm hoping and i would ask the leadership to meet with folks privately and tell them to stop. >> as you know, the former president donald trump is not looking to the future, he's still claiming falsely the 2020 election was stolen.
he -- a lot of reporting about -- he wants to announce for 2024. do you believe donald trump has the compass as you asked for to lead the republican party and would you support him? >> i believe that we agree with him on many issues, but i think many of us do not like a lot of the twitter, a lot of the name calling, so, for example, what he said about jerome powell a day after he died was inappropriate and lacks class. we have to win the suburbs. president trump did great in the rural areas, but got defeated by 11% in the suburbs. you can't win the presidency without doing -- i think center right policies work in the suburbs, but they also want decency, diplomacy and tact as we deal with all americans. and so i would hope we could find someone that has a lot of those issues and policies of our previous president, but we have to engage the american people in a kinder, more diplomatic fashion. that's what we want.
we want a more unifying message, not a divisive message. over last four years, it was too divisive. >> we'll be looking. congressman don bacon, thank you for joining the program. we wish you an your family happy thanksgiving. >> happy thanksgiving to you and all your listeners. >> thank you. next here, the january 6th committee issuing five new subpoenas targeting right wing extremist groups including the proud boys and the oath keepers. so will they cooperate? we are moments away from the opening bell on wall street. futures down slightly this morning ahead of the thanksgiving holiday. big name retail stocks taking a hit this week after earnings reflected poor quarterly results. this afternoon, the federal reserve is set to release the minutes from their last meeting, investors keeping a close eye out for that. we will be watching all of it as well. stay with us. clinking in jar] ♪ you can get it if you really want it, by jimmy cliff ♪ [suitcase closing] [gusts of wind]
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(vo) plan your getaway with norwegian. sail safe, feel free. - san francisco can have criminal justice reform and public safety. but district attorney chesa boudin is failing on both. - the safety of san francisco is dependent upon chesa being recalled as soon as possible. - i didn't support the newsom recall but this is different. - chesa takes a very radical perspective and approach to criminal justice reform, which is having a negative impact on communities of color. - i never in a million years thought that my son, let alone any six-year-old, would be gunned down in the streets of san francisco and not get any justice. - chesa's failure has resulted in increase in crime against
asian americans. - the da's office is in complete turmoil at this point. - for chesa boudin to intervene in so many cases is both bad management and dangerous for the city of san francisco. - we are for criminal justice reform. chesa's not it. recall chesa boudin now. in brunswick, georgia, we're learning this just in from the courtroom, in the trial of the three men who were charged with killing ahmaud arbery, the jury we learned has asked to see a video, according to a sheriff's deputy who came in at 9:27 a.m. which video they're asking to see is not clear at the moment. also not clear if the jury will need to be back in the courtroom to watch that. we'll monitor the developments and we'll keep you posted as we
know more. meantime, we're also keeping a firm focus on the house select committee investigating the january 6th insurrection. five new subpoenas issued, lawmakers are now targeting in those new subpoenas right wing extremist groups that were involved in the attack. among them, the oath keepers and the proud boys. >> dozens of members of both groups are already facing criminal charges tied to the capitol insurrection. paula reed joining us now from new york. what does the panel hope to learn from these groups? what are we learning as well by who they're targeting with these subpoenas? >> it is interesting that they're targeting this group. it appears they're focused on planning, preparation and wanting to talk to people who allegedly engaged in violence that day. here the committee has issued these five subpoenas, targeting right wing extremist groups that were involved in the attack. now, first on the list, the proud boys, lawmakers say the group called for violence leading up to january 6th. a few dozen individuals affiliated with the organization
have been charged. the group's leaders were actually involved in some of the early clashes that overpowered police lines and breached the building. investigators are targeting the group's leader enrique tario. he was not in d.c. on january 6th because of a prior arrest, was allegedly involved in preparation for the events at the capitol. now, another subpoena went to the oath keepers and their leader stewart rhodes. the members of that group were seen weaving through the crowd in military formation, and entering the capitol rotunda. they're accused of even stashing weapons at a virginia hotel before the riot. more than a dozen members have been charged and prosecutors say they conspired ahead of time to disrupt the electoral college proceedings. mr. rhodes has not been charged. the panel also subpoenaed robert patrick lewis, chairman of the first amendment preludetorian, a group that provided security at
multiple rallies leading up to january 6th. in a statement, representative bennie thompson, mississippi democrat, who chairs the committee said we believe the individuals and organizations we subpoenaed today have relevant information about how violence erupted at the capitol and the preparation leading up to this violent attack. at this point, several dozen subpoenas have been issued as part of this investigation. but they had mixed success. investigators say they have spoken to more than 200 witnesses, but most key trump allies, they stone walled lawmakers and refused to testify or even produce documents. jim, erica? >> we'll continue to watch for more developments. paula, thank you. joining me now to discuss, cnn senior legal analyst laura coates, former federal prosecutor and host of "the laura coates show" on sirius xm radio. she laid out why the subpoenas were issued. we heard from bennie thompson to look at how the violence erupted and the preparation there. earlier in the week it was roger
stone, alex jones, those subpoenas announced as well. the way that we're seeing the subpoenas issued, what can we take away from that if anything? >> i think you can take away that they know that this was not a spontaneous occurrence. this wasn't a coincidence, that everyone showed up, had some level of coordination and as we saw everything unfold. it was the idea this was premeditated in some way, there was a coordinated flurry of activity that took place long before january 6th and that was not just the beginning of the story, but perhaps the middle near the end of it. so trying to figure out who had a hand in the preparation and the planning, and this notion that somehow this is a res spontaneous event, to which nobody could have prevented, nobody could have undermind ed d no one could have stopped. >> there is not a lot of expectation that roger stone and alex jones are likely going to talk, even bernard kerrick issued a subpoena.
he said he will comply, but he wants an apology and also a little more time to determine if there could be some privilege claims for him. how much is some of this stone walling or this refusal to comply, how much is it in your sense that it is impacting the investigation itself. >> as it relates to privilege, it is going to be a spectrum, erica, there are some people who are going to have a far more viable claim of executive privilege, people in the administration, in the inner oval, so to speak. and others who were not part of the administration, not a part of the government, have made public statements, so if they even had privilege arguments, they already waved them. they're trying to build -- >> laura, can i stop you for one second? i'm sorry, i know you're also following this case along with us as well. we want to listen to the judge is back in the courtroom in the case for the killing of ahmaud arbery. let's listen in. >> if i could ask you to read the first thing, you said the original video. >> short version. >> okay. >> which i understand would be
the one that -- we'll make sure, but the short version as i understand it would be the video that was shortened at the scene, in order to see if it could be transmitted. that's the way i understand that. >> that was not entered into evidence. the only thing that was tendered, that's why i think we need to ask them about this short version, because the original video is from ahmad turning around and running back. if it is a different -- how do i put this? we did tender four different versions that were shortened that were high contrast, high definition, and things like that. so i just want to make sure -- >> i think we have to play the whole -- the longer version. and indicate it is not in evidence. if that's what they want. we'll clarify. >> thank you, judge. >> and what -- while playing the enhanced, however we want to call it, just make sure we
identified it as such for the jury. >> we'll identify it by exhibit number. >> it would be our position if they asked for the short version and we know where that short version begins, the large version -- the long version, we just start the video at that point. >> that was going to be my suggestion. maybe have the foreperson explain it, just the foreperson, want to pick it up from after mr. bryan picks his camera -- phone back up again if that's what they're looking for, then we could adjust it with the one that is in evidence. >> and, your honor, i think i may have discovered what they're talking about. state exhibit 1 90 is the complete video. 191 is the half speed individual y video and the shortened video and the high contrast video at 192. i believe that may be what they're talking about, with the 191 half speed and 192 high contrast. >> as long as the half speed
video is clearly identified as such, otherwise i think mr. bryan would rather have the whole video -- >> let's see what they're asking for. go with that -- give those numbers, 191 is the half speed short version. 192 is the high contrast version. you said 190 is -- >> the actual full video. >> full video. >> and then 911 call. >> and the 911 call is the 223, 911 call. >> yes. and that would be -- i believe it is state's exhibit 144. >> are the alternates excluded from this, your honor? >> no. >> they're not.
okay. >> i'll bring them in so they're aware of what's happening. though they're to begin deliberations again with the panel, if in fact somebody does not -- or somebody is replaced on the panel, i think it is good for them to know what has been presented to the panel as a whole. >> makes sense. >> okay. i'll ask for clarification once i get clarification i'll make sure we are clear on what exhibits are going to be played. i'll ask the state to go ahead and play those exhibits, just maybe easiest way to do them on the board that we have. okay. we're good. let's get the panel. >> so the judge there calling for the jury to be brought in, this is after we have learned the jury is asking to see a video, what we were just hearing there from the attorneys and from the judge -- he's saying they'll play each exhibit three
times. they're trying to determine which video, jim, the jury wants to see here. a question of whether it is a shortened version of the video, what it would be, would it be the video, half speed, as they're figuring that out, there is a mention of the jury, i believe, wanting to hear the 911 call that was made by greg mcmichael. this is the first time they asked for evidence. >> yes, page pate, laura coates with us now. page, i'd like to ask your read and, again, with the proviso that a lot of things go on in the jury room, we can't know what's inside their head, your experience when a jury asks for evidence, particularly video evidence to be played back and the specific evidence they're talking about here, what is the significance? >> well, jim, as we were talking about earlier, i was surprised they had not asked to see a video and now they have. so that doesn't surprise me. i don't think it is they're trying to figure out what happened. i think what we have here, i've seen this many times in my own trials, is, one, two, three, we don't know how many people, but
there is some disagreement about what happened in that critical moment that ahmaud arbery was shot. is there any justification for self-defense. you may have one or two people arguing there is evidence of self-defense, the others say i don't think so. and they say, well, let's get back in and look at the short half speed video because that way we can really see carefully what was going on at that critical moment. >> and, laura, remind us here, too, as we're looking at these charges, as the jury is looking at the charges, there are three defendants in this case. they're facing individual charges, but these charges are also charges in many cases that are about parties as it is worded, parties who were part of a crime. that's important as we look at what could be happening behind closed doors in that jury room. >> it is extremely important. in georgia, they have a pretty broad notion of who can be a party to a crime, essentially you lay down with dogs, you get up with flees, be careful of the
company you keep mentality there and if you are a part of some criminal activity, even if you have a role that was not the actual shooter and we see here, of course, we know the actual shooter is travis mcmichael, he's the one that took the stand, the only defendant to take the stand in his defense, articulating he felt in fear, which is in stark contrast of course to what he told officers closer in time, and he also admitted on the stand that ahmaud arbery had not threatened him, he had not tried to hurt him in some way. i think what you're seeing here are the jurors trying to figure out not with respect to say a roddie bryan or greg mcmichael on the flatbed of the truck, but with respect to what happened with this particular defendant. now, even if they were to find that everything came down to travis mcmichael, you still had this very expansive notion of the party to a crime. and finally, you know, the idea of showing the shorter video, versus the longer video, think about the two sides of this case. the defense does not want this
very limited portion, they want the more expansive notion, they want to be able to have greater context, more wiggle room in context. if you're the prosecution, you want that slowed down video to show that exact moment in time that ahmaud arbery was fighting for his life. and lost it. >> laura, as you were speaking there, you saw the counsel stand up there. the jury has now entered the room to rewatch this video as the judge noted, i believe they play it three times for clarity. as we continue to monitor page pate, from your experience in a courtroom, is a request like this from the jury at this point of deliberations good or bad for the prosecution? >> it is really difficult to say. i mean, the only thing that i would take away from this is that there is some disagreement. it could be half the jury, it could be one person. but it is -- >> okay, page. point taken. hate to rinterrupt. let's listen to the judge. >> the request i have, we the jury request to see the following videos, three times
each. one, the original video, short version, two, the enhanced high contrast version, and then we would also like to listen to the 911 call on 2/23 made by greg mcmichael, and there was a request that folks could spread out in the gallery which i already addressed. i'm going to go ahead and play this evidence, though i want to make sure that we are in fact playing what is being requested. the reason i say that is because on this first bullet point, the original video short version, the original video, the full video was tendered into evidence as exhibit 190. there is a half speed version of the short version of the video, which is exhibit 191. and then there is what was described as the high contrast version of the video, which is exhibit 192. i do want to make sure that i understand what is being
requested. we can play the full video, a shortened version of the full video, if i get a clearexactly the jury is looking for. or 191, the half speed version of the short video. did that make sense? >> i believe so. we do not want the half speed version. >> okay. it is the video itself from what point? from where the camera gets picked up, that's what i'm understanding. >> correct. that's correct. >> all right. when the camera -- so can the state find that point on the video. and then the high -- the high contrast version, i understand, is the shortened version that is in high contrast, and then i want to make sure that you all understand the 911 call made by greg mcmichael on february 23rd, the entire call is about five minutes. the first part of it was played
and then there is some dead air and some follow-up to see if somebody is on the line. if i could get you to just raise your hand at the point at which we no longer need to keep listening to that 911 call, we'll stop it at that point. do you understand? >> yes, sir. >> okay. understand where we are? >> yes, judge. >> let's go ahead. i understand you're requesting that each of the videos be played three times each. >> that's correct. >> okay. let's start with the original video picking up from when the phone comes up. that would be 190, a shortened version of exhibit 190. yes. yeah. you can sit wherever you are most comfortable . on the record, we'll say we're
>> where at satilla shores. >> i don't know what street we're on. >> stop. >> travis! >> sir, sir. >> hello. >> sir, where are you at? >> okay. thank you. ladies and gentlemen, if you would -- >> did they want that one three times? >> no, that was just once. >> okay. i'm sorry. >> thank you, ladies and gentlemen. if you would go and return to the jury room to continue with your deliberations. >> all rise for the jury. >> the jury making their way back to the jury room now after hearing that 911 call placed by greg mcmichael and also rewatching some video. page pate and laura coates are still with us.
i'll start with the 911 call. the call is about five minutes. there are some pauses. i need you to raise your hand when you've heard the portion you want to hear. the portion they want to hear is at the beginning when you hear him say there's a black male running down the street. it sounds like he's yelling stop, and then they ask for the call to end at that point, laura, which is interesting to me that that's the portion they wanted to hear. >> that goes right back to what the prosecutor said in the closing arguments. in the theme throughout the case, she's been criticized in some respect for not mentioning race enough during this trial. keep in mind there's a federal hate crimes trial that happens after this one even if there's an acquittal or conviction. that moment in time is where the prosecution wanted to hone in, to suggest and say, look, this person was being pursued. what was the crime committed? they don't mention the idea of the citizen's arrest, don't mention the potential of a crime
having occurred, a burglary, a trespass, anything. what he says is there's a black man running down the street, that's the emergency. she's trying to fatally undermine this pretextural notion that they were trying to have a legitimate basis to stop him. instead, his only crime was he was a black man jogging down the street. >> let's acknowledge that we've just seen in high-resolution video the death of a person. we saw someone shot multiple times on the air. i'm sure for folks at home, it was as shocking for them to see it as it was for me, even if you've seen it before. i want to ask you, page pate, the san francisco of the jury asking for that particular piece of video. we're not going to re-air it. what you see is arbery, as the prosecution had described, running. the pickup truck with the mcmichael father and son blocking him. he seems to turn a little left, a little right, comes to the other side.
then you do see an altercation between the two of them. legally the significance -- first of all, the significance in your experience of the jury asking for that particular moment, but legally how the question enters into the conversation here of false imprisonment versus the defense argument of self-defense. >> well, jim, this is obviously the most critical piece of evidence in the trial. we knew that going into it. in fact, i don't think we would have the trial but for this piece of video evidence, the one that the jury was focused on. it's not surprising they want to see it. again, we think of the jury as a whole right now, as one entity. in reality these are 12 different people. it may be one or two who say, look, i'm not exactly certain how he grabbed for the gun. did he really lunge at him? was there that fear there? others say let's look at the video again. you can clearly see it's not. it's all in how you perceive
what happened. it's obvious to many of us that this was murder. there were people who testified in this trial that they thought this video was clear evidence of self-defense. the perceptions can be very different. you go back to the judge's jury instruction, citizen's arrest, self-defense. if they're walking through the legal issues, they want to apply the evidence to it and come up with their own conclusion. there's some disagreement in there. just don't know how many. >> as you noted and others, all you need is one. all you need is one to have a different point of view to end up at a hung jury. but again, we don't know what's inside the jurors' heads. laura coates, page pate, thank you to both of you. we're watching developments in the courtroom. please stay with cnn for updates. intelligence to eliminate waste, and collaboration tools that