tv CNN Newsroom With Alisyn Camerota and Victor Blackwell CNN December 3, 2021 12:00pm-1:00pm PST
confirmation or some communication with them? >> as i said, the attorney this morning told us if charges were issued and at that point they had not, that she would make arrangements to have them arrested, so, you know w, when e made that actual last contact, i don't know: but that's when she called us and told them that she would let us know and make arrangements to have them arrested. >> what's your degree of concern that they are armed? >> you know, anything's possible. i would not encourage anybody to approach them. i think it would be unlikely, but we're not going to take that chance. we're going to go get them. >> can you give us an idea of the breadth of the search for them right now? >> well, every available resource that is there is happening. it's going on right now. and if they're tuned in at all,
they should do what they originally were supposed to do with their attorney, and that was to make themselves available for arrest. >> are their vehicles still at the home? >> i'm not going to get into what our detectives are doing or cars or things like that, but we'll put something out as it develops. >> okay. your reaction to the charges being filed today, these four counts of involuntary manslaughter? >> well, i mean, certainly a lot of the information that came out today we've known for some time, but we couldn't talk about because the prosecutor had to make a determination of whether to charge, and we couldn't tip our hand. we thought some of the material that was contained in those drawings and notes were very troubling and the lack of reaction or responsiveness by the parents was very troubling. >> is there more evidence that speaks to the premeditation of this that we did not hear from the prosecutor today?
>> well, we have obviously digital evidence that our computer folks have recovered that he clearly talks about it in advance of it happening. what he's going to do, when he's going to do it, and what his plans are, so pretty clear it's p premeditated. >> at what point, and we learned a lot today from this prosecutor about the drawings and the search for ammunition, on that first day when that teacher saw the search for ammunition, contacted or tried to contact the crumbleys and there was no response, is that the point at which you wish they would have called you? was there an obligation to call you that first day? >> i wish we would have been involved the first day and certainly if not the first day, the second day in the meeting or immediately notified of the content and discussion of the meeting because, you know, we have a process that we would have triggered into action at that moment. >> we've got the crumbleys back up on camera right now, the
breaking news is there is a search for the crumbleys, the parents of this charged shooter in the oxford high school in michigan. they're missing. there was supposed to be a hand over of these parents after they were charged. is there any indication, s sheriff, that they would potentially leave the state or have a contact that would take them somewhere outsideo of michigan. >> again, given that their attorney said they would handle this if charges were an issue, and now they're not talking to the attorney is indicative their internet to flee, which is something we plan to stop short. >> let me play something we heard from the superintendent last night about the drawings, the writings from this suspected
shooter, and said that there was no reason for discipline, and i want your reaction from that on the other side. >> we've had a lot of talk about the student that was apprehended, that he was, you know, called up to the office and all that kind of stuff. no discipline was warranted. there are no discipline records at the high school. yes, this student did have contact with our front office. and yes, his parents were on campus, november 30th! i'll ask you, you said that you wish the school would have called you but considering what we all know now about the drawings, about what he wrote, did they have an obligation to contact law enforcement after that? >> well, certainly after the second encounter in the morning,
i believe it was more than appropriate and necessary based on the content of what was seen on the second day. clearly i believe that that would have been appropriate, and i also know that our school resource officer would have asked him to be removed from school while that counseling or whatever was ordered by the school takes place, and i know that school resource officer's practice would have escorted him from the school and made sure that he didn't have any weapons when he did it. >> let's put the video of the crumbleys back up on the screen. we know that law enforcement is now searching for james and jennifer crumbley. there was supposed to be this handover after the charges today, and now their attorney, according to the sheriff who's with us, cannot get in contact with them. what's your degree of concern, there's still evidence that must be potentially harvested in this case as it moves forward, that
they could destroy some of that. >> i don't think necessarily that they've got any evidence left because we've already executed search warrants against the home, and on digital devices and things like that. but what they have with them i don't think is part and parcel necessarily of anything furtherance along that lines. you know, obviously they may have some cell phones but if they had communicated with the suspect's cell phones, we have already had that in our possession. >> sheriff, it's been several days since their son was charged, and on that day, the prosecutor indicated that it was possible that they could be charged. it was even clearer last night. should there have been a deputy outside of their home? should there have been some surveillance to avoid a situation like this? well, taat that point we didn't have any ability to get a search warrant to monitor their devices
or movements, and at that point also, it's not believed they were even home so that was the first indication that there might be something forthcoming was last night at the press conference when we heard it, and so that's when we began the process of trying to move forward, and the first thing we heard about the actual charges was this morning, so, you know, it's a time line thing, but we're working forward. >> so you say that there was no indication that they were at home, when was the last time that you knew where the crumbleys were, that you had an idea of if they were at home or if not, where they were located? >> well, again, they hadn't been cooperating and there were no pending charges, so there was not at the early stages, any surveillance obviously on them because there was no indication charges against them that were going to be leveed, so, you know, their movements from that
point were not monitored. as it got closer to last night, and it appeared as if the prosecutor was going to issue charges our detectives started to begin that process. >> i understand that you say that there was no search warrant, or there was no surveillance but when is the last time that your deputies, your department knew where they were? did you know where they were yesterday? did you know where they were on the day of the charging? it looks here like they're in a car watching this video. were they even in michigan as they were watching these proceedings? >> i'd have to actually talk to the detectives to find out where they last communicated with them or where they last had them, i mean, this obviously just recently happened. >> are there any other children in that home? >> i don't believe there are. again, i'd have to talk to the detectives. i believe this was their youngest child. if they had other children, i believe they were older and grown. >> can you tell us about the
vehicle potentially that they're in? >> that is something our detectives are in the process of right now, and as i said, you know, we'll push out information as soon as possible. >> what's the degree of communication with neighboring states or federal officials to try to find the crumbleys? >> oh, we're hand in glove. as soon as we knew charges had been issued and that they weren't any longer cooperating with the attorney that had pledged to bring them in, we began to activate our fugitive team, our detectives that search for wanted persons, the u.s. marshal service as well as the fbi. >> so the fbi is involved now in this search? >> yes. as is the u.s. marshal team and our fugitive team. >> okay. sheriff michael bouchard of oakland county there, thank you so much for spending some time with me to get the breaking news
out. now there is a search for the parents of this suspected shooter for being with us. do we still have the sheriff up. okay. let's bring the sheriff back. sheriff, what's your message to the public about the crumbleys as you conduct this search for them? >> if they know where they are or they see them, please call 911. don't approach them. you know, intuitively i don't think that they would be dangerous to the public, but i wouldn't take that for granted, and we're going to find them, if the public can help, that would be great. >> all right. sheriff bouchard, thank you. >> thank you. >> just incredible breaking news, incredible developments that the sheriff just shared with us about the parents of this suspect. joining us now is criminal defense attorney page pate and shimon prokupecz in michigan. they're now fugitives because the sheriff didn't even know the
last time they had made contact with their attorney or when the last time they were seen is. >> it was a great series of questions from victor there because i've been here all week. the prosecutor has been telegrapht teleg telegraphing that this is going to happen in a few days. yesterday we were asking them. we as reporters who have covered these kinds of stories were concerned that they were going to flee, and one of the things that signalled that to us is on the day of their son's arraignment, they were in a car. they were watching the arraignment sitting in a car. you can see in the video from the zoom video they are sitting in a car. they weren't inside the courthouse, and we started asking questions, we found that kind of strange, and we started asking officials questions, are you concerned that they're going to flee, do you know where they are, and we sort of weren't getting answers. we have been by the home. there's no activity at the home, so we knew police wouldn't go there, but this has been the big
mystery the last few days are where are the parents, and of course this morning we asked before the charges were announced, were they in custody, and i was kind of surprised to see that the officials and that the prosecutor and law enforcement here would be announcing these charges without them being in custody. that's just very rare and never happens. now obviously we're learning all of this new information that the attorney they hired, we have been calling this attorney, she's not returned our calls. they have stopped speaking to her. now there's this big mystery. this is a man hunt. the fact that they have the fbi involved, the u.s. marshals, which is some of the best in finding fugitives. they are usually brought in when someone is a high target, and they have all kinds of tools they could use from tracing cell phones to other things. that is a very significant development, the fact that the u.s. marshals, the fact that the fbi is being brought in now and that neighboring law enforcement
officials from the state police and other local departments, hugely significant because they really don't know where they are, and you would think they would have eyes on them. it could be now for a few days, they have not known where they were. >> let's bring in also to the conversation, cnn law enforcement analyst anthony barksdale, commissioner, i wonder how in the world could this have happened. the first hint is they're watching the proceedings from a car. also, the sheriff said that there was no search warrant to be able to surveil, how does law enforcement, how does this law enforcement lose track of people when they have been signaling for days charges are coming. >> it's a fumble. we just have to admit it. it's a fumble. let's hope to recover this, recover this fumble. there's no way that this should have happened. if they know they were going in this direction, you put surveillance on them. it's that important. after this incident, you keep surveillance on them.
don't care about manpower, don't care about overtime, if you're heading in that direction, you stick with these parents. >> page, this is astonishing, it's astonishing because there's there picture. they now have to ask the publisher for help. anybody that has seen these parents, call 911, the fbi, the u.s. marshals, the police are looking for them, and as the sheriff just told victor, they don't -- she doesn't believe they have any other minor children at home. nothing is tethering them to pontiac, michigan. they can be anywhere at this point if it has been days. >> that's certainly true. they could be trying to flee at this point, but that's not necessarily the case. i mean, i have been in this position before representing someone who's just been charged with a crime. they tend to panic, and when they panic, they do stupid stuff. maybe they're shopping for other lawyers right now.
maybe they're trying to find someone who will give them the answers they want to hear. i have seen this situation happen before where you have a relationship with one lawyer, that lawyer's talking to law enforcement, but then you panic. you're like, i don't want to be charged. i don't want to go to jail, and you try to find someone else, so it's possible they may pop up later. another lawyer could get in touch with law enforcement, but shimon is exactly right that you don't publicly announce you're going to arrest someone. you announce the charges and the arrest once the arrest has been man. i agree with the analyst that this was a fumble but i don't know necessarily they're out of the jurisdiction at this point. >> page, let me stay with you, you're the constitutional effort here. the sheriff said there was no surveillance in part because they did not have a search warrant. do you need a search warrant to be able to surveil? >> it depends on the type of surveillance, victor. if they're trying to attach a gps locator to their car, yes, you need a warrant from that. we know that from a recent
supreme court case f. you're simply hanging out on the street, if you're watching them from the public in a place where you're authorized to be, you don't need any warrant for that. you can put a car down the street, you can follow them around town, absolutely no warrant required if you want to have that type of surveillance. >> shimon, i really appreciate page's reminder to all of us to sort of keep a cool head. they could be anywhere, but part of why i think we're feeling alarmed is because what little we know about the mother and about the parents basically from the prosecutor today was that when her son was caught looking for ammunition during a class time in school on his cell phone, the school officials tried to contact her. they tried to contact both parents. they got no response, but later they found a text from her that said lol, i'm not mad at you, to her son, you have to learn not to get caught. >> right. and keep in mind, also, alisyn,
that the parents have not been cooperative with law enforcement at all. throughout this entire investigation. which really frustrated them and annoyed them and aggravated them because the parents, honestly, just made up a story in the beginning saying that they had an attorney for their son and they told the police, don't question him. that was not the case. they never hired an attorney from the beginning. they were not cooperative with the police from the beginning. and as the police started doing their investigations, getting search warrants, getting subpoenas, there were indications that the family was not being truthful. through these text messages, right, the one you just read now, that should have been a red flag for them. you don't need a warrant to do surveillance on someone. when you know you are about to arrest someone, the fbi does this, other law enforcement officers from all across the country do this. when you know you have probable cause and you're getting close to arresting someone, you want to make sure that they don't flee, and so you sit on the
house. that's what it's called, you sit on them. that's the way law enforcement refers to it, you watch them, you keep an eye, make sure they're not communicating with anyone so they will flee. if you see any signs that they may flee, you move in. there was something going on that people weren't communicating or perhaps, as we're saying here, this is a fumble. this should not have happened, the bottom line. they should have had eyes on them for days because they knew this was going to happen, and the fact that it now is, and the idea that they don't -- that, well, maybe, perhaps that they have a new attorney, and they're not communicating, perhaps, but i don't think anyone here at this point is taking any chances. the fact that they're calling the fbi in, the u.s. marshals, the state police, these fugitive task forces to now come in and join together in what is now a man hunt throughout this area, and perhaps outside of here as they start to look for these two. and while they may not feel that they have any firearms on them because they believe they took
everything out of the home, we just don't know, and law enforcement really doesn't know at this point because they haven't been in touch with them for days. so now they have this man hunt, and they're bringing in all of these resources to try and find them. >> remarkable, what we have learned in just the last 20 minutes, these two, james and jennifer crumbley, the parents of this suspected shooter at oxford high school are now considered fugitives. shimon prokupecz, page pate, anthony bargsdale, thank you. >> just remarkable. if they stay together as couples sometimes do they'll be much easier to capture. sometimes they split up and it makes it much more complicated. starting right now this has gotten tougher for law enforcement, and it didn't have to be this way. >> shimon has talked about the pain and frustration of the parents after what they learned what the school nuknew, after ty saw the drawings, the search, and there was no contact of law
enforcement, and now the parents are missing or running. we don't know. page made a good point. maybe they are now looking for a new attorney, but there is now a federal search for these parents. >> and they're not at their home. we know that because the fbi and u.s. marshals are now involved. we'll continue to follow the breaking news, of course, we are also following the number of omicron cases across this country growing, the threat from the delta variant still present as well. some doctors are saying president biden's plan to combat the virus is not bold enough. we'll talk about that next. e ye. especially at t-mobile! let's go to dianne. i got the awesome new iphone 13 pro and airpods, and t-mobile is paying for them both! and this is for new and existing customers. upgrade to the iphone 13 pro and airpods both on us. only at t-mobile. ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance so they only pay for what they need. (gasps)
. six states now have identified the new omicron variant in the u.s., and that number is expected to go up. that's according to health officials, but they also say that this is not a reason to panic. >> president biden is hoping to prevent a winter surge with his new covid strategy. this requires stricter testing for travelers to the u.s. it also emphasizes boosters for all adults. cdc director rochelle walensky reiterated the importance of boosters moments ago with our dr. sanjay gupta. >> the more mutations you have in a variant, the more you would like to bolster your immunity to have as much immunity as possible to overcome that variant. and so what we know now with the omicron variant is more immunity will be better. so if you have previously had infection, you will definitely be more protected if you also
get a vaccine, and that's really the goal here is to provide the most amount of protection as possible, so people will be protected against severe disease, and ideally against infection all together. >> emergency room doctor rob davidson joins us now. great to see you again, i want to pull up the white house strategy. the president announced in nine-prong strategy that he hopes will be able to combat covid so we don't get into the horrible conditions we have been in at other times, and we have already heard from some of our doctors that have some strong feelings about some of these things. the things that jumped out at me were the expanding free at-home testing. i think that will go a long way. that's something that people have been clamoring for. the new treatment pills could be a game changer, and then boosters for everyone over 18. what jumped out at you from the white house strategy? >> listen, what jumps out at me is the unfortunate reality of what i'm seeing on the ground where i am. we have a delta surge.
we think about omicron, i was just in the icu picking up an extra shift helping out there because the icu i'm at has three times the number of patients they're supposed to have and have expanded into other parts of the hospital. >> all right. unfortunately we lost dr. rob davidson there, but we thank him for being wus. we'll try to get him back if we can. >> and for all of his hard work. he takes a break to come on and talk to us but he has been in the emergency room around the clock. the numbers in michigan are horrible. they're as bad as they have ever been during this entire pandemic, and he's fighting it on the ground every single day in the emergency room. >> we will take a quick break, and we'll be back to move forward on the breaking news, the parents of this charged now shooter in michigan are on the run or at least they're missing. we'll get you the latest that we know after the break.
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we have him with us now. let me start with you, commissioner, now that you're with us. listen, the sheriff told us just a few minutes ago that we knew that they weren't at home, right, they were not at their home. he could not tell me the last time that he knew where the crumbleys were, and this is northern michigan, right? i think we have a map to show you just how close this is to the canadian border. they could be anywhere. >> look, they're on the run. if the police don't have them in pocket right now, if they don't have them, then they could be anywhere. so if they went to canada, okay, fine, if they want to run, fine, because i'm going to go back to what's been mentioned before, the u.s. marshals are in this game. the fbi is in this game. so if we're going to have a man hunt, they're dealing with the best that the united states has.
>> yeah, page, the last time that we know of them being seen is what're showing on our screen right now. this was during their son's arraignment. they're clearly in a car, which as victor has pointed out could have tipped off people that they were on the move, at least. but that was wednesday. so that was wednesday. so today is friday, and the sheriff was, i mean, i really appreciate this sheriff and how forthcoming he has been with information this whole time, but page, i mean, he admitted he couldn't tell us when these folks were last seen. >> right. alisyn, i mean, i think we've talked about it and it bears repeating. you really should have surveillance in place if you're about to issue an arrest warrant for someone because they do panic, they do stupid things. they try to run away. that's exactly the wrong thing to do in this case. i mean, if these parents would step up and accept responsibility for their role in all of this, they probably wouldn't be looking at a decade
in prison. so the opposite of a good strategy here is to try to run or not face responsibility. because that's just going to make the charges, not just more serious because that's a separate crime, trying to evade law enforcement but it's also going to make the ultimate punishment more serious. the longer it takes them to accept their role in this, the worse it's going to be in the end. >> you say that there could be additional charges based on what we know now. >> absolutely. yeah, if they're a fugitive, they're aware the arrest warrant is out, and they're somehow hiding from law enforcement, evading law enforcement, potentially obstructing in some way law enforcement, that could lead to additional charges. >> go ahead, shimon. >> yeah, i'm just trying to look at some -- i think we're getting in some new information. i'm just trying to pull it up here. they just issued a bolo. alisyn, i have it. you guys may have it already too. they have just issued what
basically is the type of car they're looking for and i'm reading a release here for -- from the police here saying that the sheriffs detectives are looking for fugitive parents charged with felonies in connection with the oxford high school deaths, and then they issue some information about who they're looking for. locally they put out this bolo, they told everyone around this area, and outside of this area, the canadian border, that is something we have talked about. since the day of their son's arraignment. seeing that video of the parents in the car, knowing the fact that prosecutors were moving towards filing charges, this morning when they finally announced the charges we asked where are the parents, and all we were told is there's going to be an arraignment. it will be this afternoon. but they never had them in custody. now there is this man hunt, and it's significant. when you think about the resources that they now need to put into trying to find them,
from the fbi to the u.s. marshals, and this is going to be a top priority for the u.s. marshals. the fugitive task force, some of the best in the country. so a lot of work here teo do. this could be going on for days. they could be on the road for days. >> shimon, very quickly, in the bolo, did they say the name of the car, the make of the car, did they give any details about that? >> not the car but the type of a car it is, and it looks like an suv. i can't make out the make, but it is an suv. they also issued two photos. one obviously of the father and then the mother as well in the press release here. >> shimon, you have made clear over the last couple of days of reporting there just the level of frustration the people have had with the school and not calling. just detail for us now on top of
what happened now that the parents are fugitives. >> reporter: the parents are fugitives, the fact that the school, right, the fact that the school had information, these drawings, the fact that he was looking at video on his cell phone of ammunition. these two things combined that the school never notified the police. there's a sheriffs deputy that's assigned to the school, has a relationship with the school, and part of that is because of these types of situations. they never told the sheriffs deputy, and this is frustration, and anger that the sheriff here feels, that the deputies who ran into that school. when that call came over that there was a shooting at the school, and they all ran to that building, and then to find out that night and the next day that the school had information that perhaps could have prevented this, and no one told the authorities, it really angered a lot of people here.
we have yet to hear from the families. we're respecting them, as we should, but imagine for these families who are sitting on this information now knowing they sent their kids to school. yeah, there's problems with these kid's parents obviously, but there should have been another safety check in place that was not followed through. there's a lot of frustration, and a lot of anger in this community over all of this, and now you have the police, really the sheriffs here who are supposed to be tracking the movement of these folks, now they're telling us, well, we don't know where they are. >> yeah, i mean, commissioner, you know, in your vast experience in law enforcement, these are parents that are -- were not respecting the law before this. according to the prosecutor she posted -- the mom posted mother and son day. for his new christmas present, a 15-year-old is not legally allowed to possess a gun in
michigan, but she was flouting that, and when he was in trouble in school for looking up ammunition during class, she said lol, she texted him, lol, i'm not pmad at you, you have t learn not to get caught. what do you think the likelihood that these two are going to be captured in the next 24 hours. >> i don't know about the next 24 but i do believe they'll be captured and i don't think it should be extendedm. i don't think it should go beyond 70, 80 hours. i say that because of dealing with the marshals and everything like that. to think that they're going to stick with their vehicle that they left in, i don't know. i don't know their financial situation, but i would expect them to try to swap out the vehicle. i would expect them to try to drop their cell phones at some point in time, but they're dealing with the marshals. they're dealing with the fbi. the right resources are now in this man hunt, and i'm very optimistic that these two
parents that -- these two parents will be captured in my opinion. >> all right. we do have more information about the vehicle that they are searching for. they may be in, according to this bolo, a black 2021 kia celtos, it's an suv, there is a tag number. somebody has that. give it to me in my ear. i don't have it in my e-mail in front of me. they're serging for these parents. dqg 5203. again, a black suv. it's a 2021 kia celtos, that's the vehicle that they believe they're in dqg 5203, michigan state license plate. page pate, shimon prokupecz, anthony barksdale, thank you so much for helping us through this breaking news. >> yeah, we really appreciate it, guys, and of course we'll
continue to follow this breaking news. we'll bring you all of the latest developments. it's obviously changing very quickly. in the meantime, we're going to take a quick break, and we're going to bring you our panel of independent voters next. how they feel about another possible donald trump run for office and president biden, that's next.
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we have a host of detectives out, including our partners with the fbi and the u.s. marshal service. my fugitive apprehension team, like i said, if they think they're going to not come with their attorney but going to run, we're going to remedy that. >> okay. we are back now with our breaking news. there is a man hunt underway right now for james and jennifer crumbley, they're the parents of the suspected school shooter in michigan. they were charged earlier today with involuntary manslaughter, four counts each, and now they are missing. >> joining us now, criminal defense attorney page pate. cnn's shimon prokupecz in michigan, also with cnn law enforcement analyst anthony barksdale, and senior law enforcement analyst and former fbi deputy director, andrew mccabe. let me start with you, and what this search looks like now as
these parents are fugitives. >> well, victor, i think, you know, the comments you have been discussing thus far are spot on. the prosecutor has been telegraphing this move, these indictments, these charges for the last few days. the fact that these folks weren't maybe under surveillance during that time is going to be the cause for a great question after the fact, but right now, i can tell you at the fbi, they are analysts in the office are putting together every piece of information that's known about these two individuals from their address to former addresses, family members, friends, work addresses, telephone numbers, social media accounts, any known e-mails, credit cards, anything, and all of that information is being coursed over to distill leads that will be pushed to the streets for agents and task force partners to be released. people are being interviewed, locations are being looked at not just around their residence and this area in oakland county but any place around the country
that they have a history of frequenting, going on vacations, relatives, any sorts of things like that. there's a big dragnet that is beginning to expand over this issue. >> and andy, i mean, obviously the fbi is so good at this. the fbi finds fugitives all the time. they have such a long history of success in this field, and the fact that you -- we have a car description. i mean, at the moment, the sheriff wasn't clear in terms of whether their vehicles were missing from the house. all he would say is that they are not in their house and the sheriffs deputies have not been able to find them. the car, we're going to put it up right now, is a black 2021 kia seltos suv, michigan license plate number dqg 5203, and we all know how effective it is putting their pictures, the fugitives' pictures and the car pictures up on tv, and even just talking about it like this, because we have a lot of people listening right now on the radio to us, so andy, we don't even
know when they were last seen. they were last seen on this video, on arraignment which you can see right there, their faces. that was wednesday. so how far is the dragnet of the fbi looking for them right now? >> yeah, you know, alisyn, that's where they were last seen, and it kind of surprised me when we saw that video a few days ago that they were in their car at that time. so they could have been anywhere during that arraignment video. it's pretty i don't want to say easy, but there are a lot of tools to use to search for a vehicle now. there are so many cameras, traffic cameras, you have police vehicles equipped with license plate readers, you have easy pass and electronic toll subscriptions that can track where vehicles have been. so there's a lot of ways that you can look for that car. the smartest thing they could do obviously is get rid of that car and start traveling in some other vehicle. it's much harder to get rid of your access to cash, so it would
be tougher for them to get rid of credit cards and debit cards that they'll need, if in fact, they are on the run to support that effort. we talked about this in the brian laundrie issue, to stay on the run, to avoid law enforcement takes an enormous amount of money and support and kind of pre-planning, so two people who have just been thrust into this at the point of, you know, as a result of a tragedy are unlikely to be successful for very long. >> andy, i mistakenly earlier suggested that this was in northern michigan. it is not, but i i know from being in detroit that windsor in canada is just a short drive away. the canadian border still is not far from oakland county. what's the coordination with canadian officials? >> so, you know, the proximity of that international border doesn't make things any easier, but in this case, it's with canada, and we enjoy great
relationships with canadian law enforcement services. these are the sorts of things that the fbi and their canadian counter parts all the time, the canadians have pretty good visibility on the major traffic crossing points certainly in that area at the border, so if if they attempt to cross into canada that is one place they could be picked up. there's extradition treaties in place that would enable them to be returned. >> page, a couple of interesting things here, the sheriff told victor that he doesn't think they have any other minor children. they may have other children who are not living at home, but their son is in custody, so they may have just been willing to leave him behind languishing in custody. that's one possibility. and as you pointed out, now that they have eluded law enforcement, once they were charged, other charges will be heaped on them when they're
captured? >> that's certainly possible. they are making a series of stupid mistakes. almost every decision they are making is counterintuitive and not in their best interest. here's the thing. an involuntary manslaughter charge, you are probably going to get a bond. once you turn yourself in, get processed, go in front of a judge. now that they are a flight risk, they're not going to get a bond once they are apprehended. so it's stupid. i think if they are talking to any competent lawyer, that lawyer will tell them, let's contact law enforcement immediately. let's arrange your voluntary surrender now. the longer you refuse to do that, the more difficult it will be for you to ever get out of custody. i don't know why they're doing it. >> the sheriff is on another network or was on another network and suggested that thus far, there have been no tips that have come in, but andy, let me come back to you. he also said that he would have liked to have gotten some heads-up that he could have done
something electronically to avoid this. i think we all got the heads-up three days ago when the son was charged. there was the suggestion that shimon reported that there were going to be charged for the parents, and last night we all knew they were pending, they were imminent. >> yeah, victor, if the heads weren't up, i'm not sure where they were. as i said, the prosecutor has been telegraphing this for days. front page articles even in the paper here in the washington area for -- about it. so, yeah, i think this was an entirely predictable outcome. and it does raise a question as to whether the residence and parents weren't placed under some sort of surveillance following that very public release of that indictment. you don't always surveil a subject before they're indicted but in most cases, certainly the federal kaurs kais cases that i people aren't aware they're
being indicted. in this case, quite the opposite was true. they probably had pretty good reason to believe this was coming. >> commissioner, i think we might have some new photos of the -- in a minute. as soon as the police -- the sheriff's department has put out that be on the lookout for alert and that includes some new photographs of the parents that we'll put up as soon as we can. but isn't it standard operating procedure where deputies sit on a house as shimon was describing where you just have a car some place. this is interesting. these are the pictures. these look like dated pictures of them because they certainly looked different than we saw them in the -- oh, these are dr. driver's license pictures that we're showing right now of the suspected shooter's parents who are now on the run. this is jennifer and james crumbley. these are their driver's license photos so we don't know how many years old -- >> it looks nothing like the video we saw on wednesday in the car.
that probably is more valuable in the search for those parents. yes, these are the photographs that have been issued from the state. this is what they looked like on wednesday as they were attending the arraignment of their son. >> be on the lookout for the black suv. >> but isn't it, am i wrong, is it just standard operating procedure to just put a deputy's car there unobtrusively keeping an eye on it? >> when you have an incident, a tragedy like this, you invest your resources wisely. if you are headed towards charges against the parents you need to stick with them. you need to have your team conduct surveillance. this is inexcusable. i don't know what happened here. but we see the results of not keeping them under surveillance. so what -- i feel that it's already done now. we have to focus on their capture, but this is a fumble
that needs to be looked at, and there must be accountability for this mistake. >> shimon, we're also learning that the sheriff said that he got no heads-up from this new prosecutor that the charges were coming. he was asked if that was frustrating. he said that's an understatement. she's new. help us understand the interaction, the cooperation between those two and now the finger-pointing begins as they're trying to find the crumbleys. >> so i have gotten the sense just from being here for the week that they don't have the best relationship, right? he's elected. she's elected, whatever, politics aside. but i have certainly gotten the sense that it's the relationship is not the best. he has not been present at her press conferences. she was present at a press conference that he had yesterday. this question came up yesterday at the press conference and, obviously, they said we'd have
more in the next 24 hours. remember, she was standing next to him when that all started. and then she was on last night. the prosecutor with anderson cooper indicating that something was coming. so we all knew. you don't need to necessarily communicate between two people, you know, they should be communicating. they have been working really well in this investigation. but, you know, this has been out there for the last several days as we've all been saying. so i don't know. i don't know where this breakdown occurred but we've been honestly, victor, both me and my producer carolyn sung have been asking them for the last two days, do you know where they are because we knew this was coming. so we were trying to figure out, well, are you going to announce this before they are in custody or are you going to do this after they're in custody? and we frankly, thought this was the scenario that was likely going to occur. and here we are today. here we are right now with these
two on the run. the sheriff's office did the entire investigation here so they went out. they've done all the investigations and had to present everything to the prosecutor. so as far as that goes, they have been working well together, victor. >> yeah, it is possible that they show up at their arraignment. maybe they're just missing at the moment. the arraignment is coming up. we'll see what happens. appreciate all of you with this breaking news. the breaking news coverage continues on "the lead" with jake tapper after a quick break. when it comes to autism, finding the right words can be tough. finding understanding doesn't have to be. we can create a kinder, more inclusive world for the millions of people on the autism spectrum. go to autismspeaks.org.
emergency planning for kids. we can't predict when an emergency will happen. so that's why it's important to make a plan with your parents. here are a few tips to stay safe. know how to get in touch with your family. write down phone numbers for your parents, siblings and neighbors. pick a place to meet your family if you are not together and can't go home. remind your parents to pack an emergency supply kit. making a plan might feel like homework, but it will help you and your family stay safe during an emergency.
michigan police activating the fugitive team. "the lead" starts right now. a manhunt under way for the parents of the suspected michigan school shooter. parents went missing after prosecutors announced charges and laid out a rather scathing case against them. as we wait to understand more about the omicron variant, the biden white house is hoping to make it easier for every american to get a covid test. dr. sanjay gupta just sat down with the head of the cdc to talk about how. then -- all ey