tv Reliable Sources With Brian Stelter CNN January 2, 2022 8:00am-9:00am PST
that was awesome. and, the hits won't quit, with peacock premium included at no additional cost. all that entertainment built in. xfinity. a way better way to watch. . hey, happy 2022! let's make this a great year. i'm brian stelter and this is "reliable sources," where we examine the story behind the story, and we figure out what is reliable. this hour, new year's resolutions for the news business and how you can be a part of them. plus, the disinformation in the economy and how some experts are trying to disrupt it. david frum is here with insights. later, kara swisher is here to talk about what's coming down
from the tech platform from the streaming verse to the meta goal. but first the new year brings an anniversary that some are trying to forget, others actively denying and others determining to remember. the one-year anniversary of the trump riot is coming up on thursday. in the words of cnn's analyst, there are exceedingly stunning numbers of people who don't re-louise how close we came to cataclysmic and constitutional or democratic crisis on january 6th. or how alarming it is some nates are trying to make such a coup easier to pull off next time. yeah, the story of january 6th just keeps getting bigger and bigger, even though it keeps shrinking and shrinking at pro-trump media outlets. their line started right away, minimizing, denying, blame shifting. and their fictions have made it harder to stay focused on the
facts. so we're going to devote a good time of time this morning to the facts to remembering, to the role of the media and to making sense of aftermath. 1/6 is part of an anti-democratic movement in the u.s. but only part. as political co-reporter kyle chan observed recently, there's a five-alarm fire happening in real time but far from ignoring, the public press covered with urgency. the fact we are uncovering are alarming and focusization of reporters covering our small d, democratic government. it is, he says, one of the defining stories of our era. january 6th was a physical manifestation of virtual manification, online rage showed up at the steps of the u.s. capitol and some state capitols too. let's not forget about that. so let's go back to that day and look at how it was shown on your tv in realtime. >> throngs of protesters climbing the steps on the
western side of the capitol. >> a couple moments ago donald trump saying less go to the capitol. >> trump rally goers continue to make their way up to the capitol in this protest. the president said something big was going to happen. >> this is a moment i've never saw in my life. these individuals just rushed through security. >> president trump could stop this with one tweet, but instead he's on twitter attacking vice president pence for refusing to go along with his attempt at a coup. we're only seeing some of the violence on the outside of the capitol building. you have more information on what's going on inside in this armed insurrection and attempted coup. >> i do not believe the people who instigated this crime will be the solution today. the solution today is the rest of us. >> we are witnessing history and what can only be described as national disgrace. >> chaos and lawlessness striking at the heart of american democracy. >> improvised explosive devices found, several people injured, offices vantalized, windows smashed. >> it was an insurrection,
domestic terrorism, violence, it was illegal and the president of the united states said he loved it. >> so let's begin with two reporters who were there that day and are still processing it one year later. greg segers was a reporter for cbs news on capitol hill and now a staff writer for the republic. hunter walker is now the author of a sublet newsletter "the uprising" and contributor to "rolling stone." welcome. does this anniversary bring back unwelcomed feelings? >> i think it does. it's hard to realize it was a year ago already. on one hand it feels like it wasn't that long ago at all but it also feels like it's been a million years. so it's definitely offering an opportunity to look back at that time, see how i was feeling at the moment, sort of interact with other people who were there and knowing we were all feeling the same thing right now, this
sort of disbelief already a year has gone by and here we are. >> and we're still learning more about the attack and still processing what it meant to the country and to our lives. so hunter, is there a disconnect between the people who were there that day in d.c. and the people who were not. someone lwho only watched it on tv, will i ever really get it? >> i think this was a really unique incident in part because when it happened during the pandemic. this was a prevaccination moment. a lot of the press corps was working from home, remotely and unless they were capitol hill press corps like grace or someone like myself who went out to cover the protests, they didn't see this firsthand. while we were there on scenes, due to the crowds and due to the law enforcement response, cell phones were jammed. so there was a bit of delay also in that footage getting out. >> that's a great point. >> and i think that distance, coupled with the fact we see active attempts to deny the
reality of what occurred sort of prevented people from realizing what happened that day. and i found, and i know this from myself and in talking, there's a formidable group of reporters who were there that day and lean on each other and talk to each other, i also talk to members of the capitol staff and law enforcement and members of the capitol police and we're all still dealing with that and feeling like we need to convey to others how serious it was. one example, there are still members with the capitol police out with injuries they suffered that day. >> from a year ago? >> uh-huh. >> yeah. >> and some journalists had been candid about ptsd and trauma. but on top of that day, cell service, lack of awareness, i think it's important to remember it didn't look on tv as bad as it actually was. that wasn't the fault of the producers or anything. most of the shots were far from
away. we didn't see from inside the capitol the attacks on police. there were only a few videos that came out on the day. it took several days to reckon with just how violent this was and several weeks to learn about the security failures and all of the rest. in other words, it was worst than it looked on live tv and that's why people like you have been telling people what really happened. >> what hallmark of posttraumatic stress disorder is having flashbacks and clear memories. for one moment that haunts me is the moment i was on the phone with my editor and i was a white house correspondent. i started that morning covering trump. i was there at the ellipse. in the final 120 words of his speech, that's when over an hour, he told the crowd to march to the capitol. i just kind of went with them. when i got to the buildings, the barricades had already been breached. i saw everyone crawling over the inaugural stand but it took a moment for me to realize people were inside. i got a call to the my editor and the moment i hung up from
that call, and it's a simple, stupid thought, the thing that rang in my head as i looked in one of the windows was this is bad. it was immediately apparent to me shooting could break out from either side at any moment, just because people had breached such a secure building and those of us who work as a reporter in d.c. know how seriously law enforcement takes that. i was so aware of the possibility of gunfire and trampling in addition to the violence that went out around me, and frankly the police officers talked about this in the july hearing with the select committee, they held back from shooting because they knew how dangerous that was. and that's among, including the bombs not going off, a series of small miracles that prevented this from being as deadly as it could have been. >> grace, do you have some of the same memories of fearing for your life during that day? >> it's interesting because i was actually inside the building. i was one of those people who was inside the building as hunter just mentioned, and so
for me, i was in the senate chamber. we're not allowed to have electronics inside the chamber, so even after we had been locked into the chamber after the breach at the capitol and after vice president pence had been evacuated, i was told off for having my laptop out. so there were a few minutes i wasn't on my phone, i wasn't on my laptop. none of us were in the reporters' gallery, and we just really didn't know what was going on. now every time i go into the senate chamber, into the press gallery overlooking the floor of the senate, looking over where the senators conduct their daily business, i do think about that, every single time i go in. i notice the seat i had been sitting in and just for a flash of a moment, i remember being there on january 6th when we were locked in before we were evacuated. and it was very different for us
on the inside because we just really didn't know how bad it was until afterwards. it's interesting because a lot of the worst of it is really in hindsight that we realize how bad it was and how much worse it really could have been. >> which is why there has to continue to be reporting and information about this. grace, you wrote for pointer at the end of january last year, sometimes i'm fine. sometimes i want to sob for hours. sometimes i just want to sleep. that sounds to me like trauma. that sounds like ptsd. do you feel like you still experience that? >> i do think so to a certain extent. there's definitely still reactions that i feel and i go to the capitol on an almost daily basis and every time i go to the capitol, i think about that experience that i had on january 6th. not only that i had, but that my colleagues had, my fellow
reporters, lawmakers, capitol police, justify staffers. it can be difficult sometimes to come to terms with that, and as time goes on, it gets a bit easier to move forward from it. but i do feel as if it is something that's always going to stay with me, no matter how long it is. >> hunter, is that true for you as well? >> well, i had an experience in my life with a really bad car accident where i was diagnosed with ptsd. this was as a 2 1-year-old in 2005 and i have been really grateful for this since january 6th. >> knowing the signs of ptsd. >> because i had been through treatment, i knew what it was and one of the most important things is being aware of your ptsd and you have these flashbacks and signs and feelings say okay, this is my ptsd. but what great is touching on is really, really important. i'm from brooklyn and i'm very
proud of that but for the past five years i live in d.c. as a reporter and washington is my home. this is a place that can be a boogieman for much of the country. >> washington, pretend to hate it. >> right, but it's our city. so this morning when i got on the train to come down here to see you, brian, i was looking at the capitol belt. my parents recently came down to visit me and we were near it and i thought man, i can't wait until i can look at this and not feel sad. for me every time i see that building that i was once so happy to live near and proud of it, it just brings back my thoughts to the moment i called my wife just to tell her i love you because i didn't know if i was coming back home. for those of us in d.c. this hits home on multiple levels. yes, there were the people who were there but also this was our city, this was our home that was under attack. >> then how do you feel when you
hear the denialism, when you read the lies to try to whitewash that day? >> it's just been stunning to me. for me being in that crowd, it was so clear what i was seeing, a violent attack on the u.s. government, act of terrorism, anti-democratic attempt to overturn a free and fair election. and i expected that there would be immediate outrage in coverage. instead we've seen silence. what's the ribbon for january 6th? what is the hashtag? >> that's interesting, what's the ribbon? what's the hashtag? you're saying when there is a terror attack in this country, there are certain things that happen and they didn't happen after the riot. >> and demured to violence slowly over the past couple of years. i'm 37, i remember columbine, the nation almost stopped. in the steady stream of mass shootings and other incidents including political violence like the 2016 congressional baseball shooting, like what happened to gabby giffords, we
haven't stopped and really taken stock in these moments in a way that we're used to but even by those short attention spans standards, we didn't have the three days of thinking about the capitol. we never had the ribbon, the normal morning we might associate with something like that. and then as you point out, we had active attempts to deny it occurred at all. for me what that's done, seeing this, knowing how serious it is and watching it be denied has almost made me want to stick to the story and even more and made me mission-driven in my approach to showing everyone everything i can about what happened that day. >> grace, is this why accountability is so important? >> for sure. i think it's really important to continue looking at this problem, not letting it go, looking at the larger causes of what happened on january 6th and not just what happened on the day itself, although that's really important, it's really important to look at the
failures that led to these specific moments of violences that led to the breaches, it's important to look at all of these small things but it's also very important to look at the larger causes and then look at the relationships between members in congress itself. i remember as hunter was talking, thinking about how we really had no time to process what was going on. as soon as the capitol building was cleared on january 6th that evening, we just went right back to work. and that's understandable, that's what had to happen because the electoral votes needed to be counted. it needed to happen for our democracy, for our country. but it also is just incredible that all of us, reporters, lawmakers, staffers alike, all of us just went back to work as if nothing happened. i think it's important for all of us to have personal accountability as well to look at what happened to us, what
happened between these relationships between members of congress be to look at it on a personal level as well as a professional level. ahead the conspiracies, the prosecutions and the cover-ups. some of my best memories growing up were cooking with mom. so when she moved in with us, a new kitchen became part of our financial plan. ♪ ♪ find a northwestern mutual advisor at nm.com clerk: hello, how can i? sore throat pain? ♪honey lemon♪ try vicks vapocool drops. in honey lemon chill. for fast-acting sore throat relief. wooo vaporize sore throat pain with vicks vapocool drops.
welcome back to "reliable sources," where we are analyzing 1/6 one year later and the role of the media in it all. with us now is ryan riley, senior justice reporter covering the doj for huff post. he's writing a book on the january 6th manhunt, the working title "sedition hunters" and also with me, author of "messengers of the right." ryan, you're tracking the prosecutions day by day. what are they saying, who are they blaming in court? how are they blaming pro-trump
media for rallying them up? >> and one called them tyrannical and trying to hold on to power unlawfully when now he realizes he was misled, lied to. we see men in the case of danny rodriguez, the rioter who actually jammed a taser into the neck of officer michael fanony on january 6th and when he was picked up by the fbi, we see in his confession, he realized he got caught up in this, didn't believe they were going to take over the country and called himself so stupid for believing that. we see this theme where a lot of rioters are telling the court and judges they are misled. judges have been willing to accept that up to a certain point and realizing a lot of people who are the most morally responsible for this are not going to be held the most legally responsible in the end. it's going to be of on small pawns who will be held accountable. >> tell me why tucker carlson's
name keeps coming up in your reporting. >> tucker carlson, one of the first things i always see when i go to the facebook pages of a lot of these insurrectionists, posts from tucker carlson, reshare from someone else. sometimes it's don jr., sometimes it's better johnson with turning points usa. a lot of these are often memes shared of tucker's show. in one instance it was actually really fascinating because last month in december, tucker carlson went through and said, hey, here's this individual. who is this individual in the red paint? he's on the frontlines. and tucker carlson had a january 6th defense attorney on who was accusing this individual who had his face painted red and wearing a keep america great again hat as being an agent provoke tour, being an undercover law enforcement officer. that's not the case, as i reported, it turns out this is just a guy who was a little bit on the edge there and kind of runs around cardinals stadium in st. louis during cardinals' home
games and apparently during away games, he will run around the empty stadium but that's -- so that's who that individual is and he's a huge fan of tucker carlson. he posted all of these posts after january 6th explaining his entire journey and explaining that he thought the election was stolen. so everything that sort of lines up with this theory of these sort of -- these either people who are secretly blm or antifa or going undercover to be trump supporters just doesn't make any sense. we've seen repeatedly over and over it was disproven. these are actually people who believed the big lie and the election was stolen and they're taking what they see in their minds as justifiable action in order to respond to that what they see as the crime of the century as been described to them by their leader, by donald trump. >> i feel like that's why as a psychological level this remains such a big story.
there's not a lot of examples like this in history, nicole, a masked illusion of thousands of people who believed trump won. we're in chartered territory in america because of fox and media outlets, we're experiencing a mass delusion event and in january 6th it happened in real life but it kind of continues in virtual life. what are the receoots? what do we know from the research? >> the denialism is very much rooted in kind of a desire not to be pinned with something that was so horrific. remember, the reactions as things were happening on january 6th? this real horror that was happening across both sides of the aisle from conservatives and republicans as well as democrats and liberals, people who don't identify politically. but that horror had a partisan vector. they were people who were responsible for this and trump supporters and people within the administration. so the need to distance yourself
from responsibility for that crime, for that sin against the country, for that terrorism is a big driver. >> so it's like a face-saving move. that's why they talk about antifa, to save face. >> to save face for donald trump and reclaim higher ground. it's pretty much the same thing donald trump went through when donald trump was nominated, where you had so many people who came out on the right who said he does not represent our believes, he's dangerous. all of that recognition disappeared pretty quickly once he became the nominee and once he became president. so there's a history of amnesia about the things that people once knew were bad. >> amnesia, right, right. joshua benson of neiman lab wrote on twitter, an accurate cultural memory of that day, january 6th, needs to be
imprinted onto the american psyche. it's important for this to have an accurate cultural memory. i agree, but can i be cynical? >> please. >> i don't think that's possible. i don't think there will ever be a shared agreed-upon narrative of january 6th. >> no, i don't think it will either because it served partisan purposes not to have achievement. there are too many fences for dismissing the right of january 6th for that narrative to hold. it is something we've seen in history before. we saw it at the end of the civil war, this call for reconciliation between the north and the south and that reconciliation required denying that the south had done anything wrong. and that myth lived in the united states for 100 years. >> is there a real parallel you think to this? >> i do think that donald trump is the new lost cause. >> the new lost cause. as we head into 2022, whether he
runs for president again, that he's going back to what was stolen, that's what is animating his movement now. >> and not just stolen but there's a whole class of conservatives being held as political prisoners. i think it's important to recognize how much the right sees itself as a victim of january 6th rather than the perpetrator. >> ryan, i think one of the more hopeful angles of this story as it evolves is the role of citizen hunters, the people you're writing about, amateur investigators who help the fbi find the criminals. tell us about that. >> yes, it is really average people who have taken it upon themselves because they were so alarmed and so worried about what happened january 6th because they saw it as an attack on their country, because it really was, they had the motivation to go out and hold these people accountable. i think the january 6th committee will get into some of the issues why the fbi wasn't
prepared that day. i was talking to people a week after the election of 2022, an fbi informant saying this is going in a bad direction. really what we -- so figuring out why the fbi wasn't prepared is going to be a big question that's going to loom over the next couple of years. but really in the meantime, a lot of these sedition hunters are trying to make up for the work the fbi sort of lost there and figuring out all of these people who went into the capital and attacked law enforcement officers has become this really motivating force for them. i think one thing people really have to recognize is we're only a partial part of the way there. we're very much in the beginning stages of this. there's more than 2,500 who entered the capitol. if you go on the fbi's website, there are upwards of 500 people wanted mostly for attacks outside of the capitol. we're about a quarter of the way there. >> wow. >> so we have over 700 people charged now at this point but really it's going to be a long way up and i think these sedition hunters are inspiring a
lot of people to keep on this and make sure especially those people who committed violence on trump's behalf ever held accountable. >> one response to denialism and memory hauling is pursue the truth even more aggressively. ryan, nicole, thank you both. coming up later this hour -- some new year's resolutions for the news media. first, david frum is here with a message about american democracy and the f word -- fascism. en my windshield broke... i found the experts at safelite autoglass. they have exclusive technology and service i can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ new vicks convenience pack. dayquil severe for you... and daily vicks super c for me. vicks super c is a daily supplement with vitamin c and b vitamins to help energize and replenish. dayquil severe is a max strength daytime, coughing, power through your day, medicine. new from vicks. we hit the bike trails every weekend shinges doesn't care. i grow all my own vegetables shingles doesn't care.
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welcome back to "reliable sources." i'm brian stelter. was january 6th of last year the end of something or the beginning of something? david frum says that if you shrug it off, you shrug off the riot, that you already accepted and enabled the next one. frum is a writer for "the atlantic" and author of "trump open list." and in the past was a speechwriter for george w. bush. david, thank you for joining me. >> thank you. >> you wrote about halfway through the year as people try to justify january 6th, as trump allies try to justify it, we're moving towards fascism, the trumpists are moving towards fascism. do you feel that way a year later? >> what is fascism, what do we mean when we say that? to my mind fascism is a popular movement that justifies violence
in the same of some kind of overthrow of outdated institutions and create some kind of national regeneration. that is what you hear more and more from the people who are minimizing this. they're not horrified by the violence anymore, they're increasingly accepting it. and they're accepting too that our institutions, the institutions of the united states, are so ineffective they need to be overthrown and rebuilt in some new way as violence in the background by which the tool this will be done. >> certainly there are conversations about that here on cnn on msnbc but do you think the rest of the national news media is taking january 6th seriously enough? is there enough focus coverage on this? >> it's difficult to keep up. that's been the story since 2015. there's a scandal and then another scandal and another scandal. an outrage and another outrage and another outrage. we kept saying through trump
presidency, at least in the beginning, the mantra many people used the phrase, this is not normal. this is not normal. the truth is now we have to accept, this is now normal. this is now normal. it's not normal in the sense of justifiable or laudable or acceptable, it's normal in the sense of this is our reality, this is what's going on. the central question, a central question of american politics for the future is going to be in 2022 and 2024 what -- do you accept this and if you don't accept it, what would you do to keep the country true to its democratic and liberal traditions? >> this is a question i get from viewers every time we talk about january 6th, democracy, danger to democracy, i constantly hear from viewers all the time, okay, we know the problem, you keep telling us the problem, when are you going to tell us what to do? when are you going to tell us the solution? i don't know if i can, david, can you? >> the solution as always is citizen involvement. the question i get, like you
with what do we do, the question i often good are you optimistic or pessimistic? my response to that always is i don't accept those categories because to be optimistic or pessimistic is to accept the future already exists. you can see it, have an opinion about it and make a prediction about it. the future is what we make and make together. whenever i get that question i have to turn it back on the questioner, okay, if we're agreed, what will you do? you're the actor here. this is a democracy still if you can keep it. what will you do? and it begins with engagement, it begins with political participation. not just the single act of voting but a real commitment to participating in the institution, this society and not accept, for example, not accepting lies as legitimate or normal or tolerable behavior. >> even if the lying is normal, we can make sure we're not numb to it, make sure we're aware of it. i like that spirit for this new year, david, it's up to everybody individually to do their part. >> everybody individually, and
then everybody collectively, all people of goodwill anyway. and this is unlike the 9/11 trauma, this is an interior challenge. it makes it in some ways more difficult and in many ways more painful. >> yeah. i want to stick around, david, more questions for you after the break. also coming up on the program, kara swisher with a look at what to expect from tech, big tech, in 2022. ted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein. clerk: hello, how can i? sore throat pain? ♪honey lemon♪ try vicks vapocool drops. in honey lemon chill. for fast-acting sore throat relief. wooo vaporize sore throat pain with vicks vapocool drops.
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trust in media is at rock-bottom low. distrust is now the norm. there are entire networks that exist to tear down the mainstream media. and, look, there are a lot of legitimate media critiques to make. but there are also a lot of cheap, lazy, cynical critiques of the media. and david frum's been writing a lot about those lately. he's back with me for more. david, i have enjoyed your twitter threads lately about what we mean when we say the media, and what we oftentimes mean is the disinformation industry. you have newsrooms that try your best. and then you have media outlets that just try confuse and distort. how do you think people as they navigate this world, how should they think about the quote/unquote media in 2022? >> we should stop thinking about the media as if it were 1972 or
1992. >> what do you mean? >> i think a lot of people when you say the media, they think the big old three television networks that broadcast over the air, they mean powerful big-city newspapers. they meantime a"time" and "newsweek" and perhaps cnn if they're up to 1992. and it means a division or part of western society and they're not ready for a world in which by far the most media corporation in the world, the biggest, is facebook. i say that with no disrespect. facebook is where above all people get their information. institutions like youtube and red reddit are a important information. you can have more broadcast ability than people like walter cronkite ever had. >> right. >> and i want to turn it back on the consumers saying remember, fox news has its impact because
people want it. one of the things we need to study is not just why do people produce it, but why do people believe it? because many of the popular news items the past few year is so obviously untrue, so they doing something for the user because who else would believe it unless you badly wanted believe it? >> the way to disrupt the economy is critical thinking skills but it's really hard to say and really hard to implement and have everyone be more critical of what they consume with what they consume. that's almost impossible. >> the first critical thinking skill to understand is the purpose of the universe is not to validate your preconceptions. so when you get a story that validates your preconceptions, be careful. this applies to people from all points of view. when you see a piece of viral video, ask yourself what happened five minutes before that video was shot? what happened five minutes after? where is the camera?
think of the camera as a character in every story. how does the camera got present? why is it there? who invited it? and that -- whatever the viral video is, whether it's a dog and cat doing something adorable together, whether it's something that makes you proud, whether it's something that makes you upset, interrogate the video because the camera is not to be trusted. it's a character, and like all characters, it has an agenda. >> that's so interesting we have to think about where it's coming from, where is the camera. makes me think this is becoming a harder and harder country for a president to govern. right now it happens to be president biden but compared to the bush years, which you know intimately, you ever think about how different it is for a president or administration to try to navigate this media ecosystem? >> when president bush ran for the first time, w. bush in 2000, there was no social media and barely any social media in 2004. there was no youtube. there was no realtime video. it was very difficult for ordinary people to capture
realtime video. but, you know, we just have to accept this as progress. it's harder today to buy the proper, right mortgage product than it was 30, 40 years ago because there are more choices. it's harder to make wise food choices because there are more choices. so we're going to all have to be -- in every aspect of our lives, the material abundance, incredible diamondism and creativity of modern society and thank god for it also imposes not only greater opportunities on us but also higher responsibilities. >> right. i always say to students the future of the media is all of the above. there's going to be more garbage and also more incredibly beneficial journalism but it's going to be hard to figure out in how to navigate the difference. >> still, that's the reality, there's no arguing with it. so let's for this new year focus on the positives because it's possibly the better informed, more responsibility citizen today than ever before in the history of the world, so live up
to that task. >> right, live up to it. david, thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. there's much more still to come here on "reliable sources." after the break, kara swisher on all of the talk about facebook and whether there's ever going to be any action. hear from her in just a moment. >> vo: my car is my after-work decompression zone. ♪ music ♪ >> vo: so when my windshield broke... i found the experts at safelite autoglass. they have exclusive technology and service i can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ some of my best memories growing up, were cooking with mom.
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what will covid bring in six months, a year? if you're feeling anxious about the future, you're not alone. calhope offers free covid-19 emotional support. call 833-317-4673, or live chat at calhope.org today. if last year was all about a facebook reckoning, what does this year have in store for meta? facebook whistle-blowers will remain in the news and so many big feck makers and mark
zuckerberg will hype the metaverse and a lot of us will wonder what that means. but there's a lot of other things going on in the anti-media, the stream wars with max and disney plus and cnns and cnn getting into the streaming service in a few months. i'm joined to one person to talk authoritatively about all of this, that is kara swisher, who is among other things, the host for th e so many hearings, there's the appearance of action. do we have any reason to believe all the talk will actually strans late to legislation and regulation? >> well, there is legislation at least. it's moving through the system. it's a question of whether they can pass it. they don't seem to pass anything. it's frustrating to some of the legislators who steep themselves
in it like senator amy klobuchar, representative david buck and david cicilline. senator john thuns, there's many, many pieces of legislation. it's not for lack of effort. there's all kinds of different legislation attacking different issues. it's difficult to get anything passed. what we really need overall is a national privacy bill which is a long time coming. >> a national privacy bill. why is that the most important? >> because it attacks the business incentives around this whole thing. a lot of stuff that is in congress right now have a loet of first amendment issues. we don't really want the government wading into speech. they can't, by the way, because of first amendment issues. it's really important to think about things that focus in on the business, which is the use of information for money making by companies like meta and others. i keep wanting to call them
facebook. but i'll call them whatever they want to be called. if you start to attack -- not attack, if you start to regulate there, you start to have other effects down the line, business incentives in line with consumers. >> do you see any evidence that consumers are changing their behaviors an their habits as a result of the revelations about how these devices are sometimes hurting us, or are we all just too addicted? >> well, it's not just addiction. it's necessary. during the pandemic, everything accelerated. the use of the internet and the use of remote work or education, communications, delivery, retail, all kinds of services really did go crazy during the pandemic, and it makes sense that we have to rely on these tools to do so. it also made these tech companies become more valuable than ever by tripling in wealth and size and this and that. they were there with all the devices needed for a pandemic. it's still continuing. so people have gotten used to
it, including working at home. every aspect of society which is already headed in that direction, already addicted to a lot of these things, it's a necessity now for pretty much everybody. >> that's a very good person. in-person conferences is coming back. ces is about to happen, the big tech expo. is there interesting hardware on the horizon? or is it all about software and how we use the apps? >> apps is the center of the university. there is interesting stuff happening around ar and vr. meta has been trying to push that with oculus. apple is going to weigh in. snapchat is working on glasses. there's all kinds of areas. it's not quite ready for primetime. you've seen a lot of ads for oculus. it's like let's put this on and look kind of terrible. >> with the goggles or something. >> yes. you're not going to see any at ces necessarily. it's a direction people are
going into to get to this metaverse level. i think you'll be seeing a lot of that. obviously in transportation, all these electric vehicles, all these autonomous vehicles, these values have gone up like crazy. you're not going to see that at ces. it's still a software app game right now and services. there's really interesting stuff coming along for sure. >> right. it takes time. in the entertainment space, how do you view the streaming wars, or do you even call them streaming wars? how do you view what's going on with netflix and everyone trying to tackle netflix? >> well, netflix has had like nine laps around the track before entertainment companies have caught up. they certainly are trying to catch up. the numbers went up quickly during the pandemic. now disney and other places are sort of waffling because what people do, they churn and return. you sign up for something, watch it and then cut it off. i think everyone is going to have to offer stream services. that's the way people want to
watch television. it's impacted movie going. i know hollywood is resisting it. look at a great movie like west side story. it just didn't see anybody in the theaters. they're going to have to put all these things online. you'll see enormous amounts of content moving here. the question is how is it going to be served to consumers? >> finally, kara, do you have any new year's resolutions you can share with us? >> to stop having children. i had my fourth kid this year. i'm going to stop having children. i feel like i've done enough. i'm really going to focus a lot on climate change. i talked about it last year, but i think that's one of the -- it's an existential crisis as you're seeing all over the globe. there's a lot tech can do to change that. it has changed people's behaviors, especially autonomous cars, the way we buy and sell, the way we consume. there's a lot tech can do.
including space travel. i know it seems like silliness right now, billionaires shooting themselves close to space, but the idea to -- i hate to repeat the "time" man of the year, elon musk, humanity has to be space faring. >> sign me up. i'd love to go with you. cara, sthan, so much. >> you're going up in space? you can do cable from sfas. >> or streaming. >> i have too many children, as i said. streaming from space. >> kara, thanks so much. >> thanks, brian. more new year's resolutions for the media right after a quick break.
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last but not least this hour, some new year's resolutions for the news media. nicole hemmer is back with me, author of "messengers of the right." do you have a resolution for us, nicole? >> i do. the big one is to have a long memory. the destruction of democracy is not a 2020 story, not a 2021 story. it's going to be less splashy, in statehouses, in the supreme court, in congress. it's not going toe come dressed up as an insurrection. keeping an eye on the story even when it's not those gripping images we've had for the past two years. >> it's one of these drip, drip, drip events or stories. that's an important challenge for the media.
nicole, thanks so much. >> thanks for having me. thanks for joining us for this new year edition of "reliable sources." sign up at reliablesources.com. the letter will come out in a few hours. we'll see you back here in the inbox and on tv this time next week. ♪ ♪ one year later, the investigation into the deadly january 6th riot enters a new phase, what the committee has learned about the impetus of the attack and the role of the former president. i'll speak to january 6th committee chairman bennie thompson and maryland governor larry hogan next. and tidal wave, hospitals brace for more covid patients, as the omicron variant triggers more remote learning and travel delays. >> what really counts is making sure people don't get sick
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