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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  January 3, 2022 9:00pm-10:00pm PST

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and good evening. the year begins with a flurry of new covid developments as the omicron surge gathers force. the country is now averaging more than 400,000 new infections every single day. nationwide, they have risen 198% over the last two weeks. that's up 222% in new york and in florida where the state's surgeon general is now speaking out against so much testing, cases are up 947%. again, in just 14 days.
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but it is not just cases that are rising. so is the number of people needing hospital care. even as more healthcare workers get sent home sick. teachers, as well. with millions of kids going back to school today, mostly in person but in several large school districts they have gone back to remote learn for the time being. against that backdrop, today the fda signed off on booster doses of pfizer's vaccine for 12 to 15-year-olds and shortened the waiting period between second and third doses to five months from six. meantime, testing remains hard to get. questions about how dangerous low omicron is in general, and specifically to kids remain unanswered. early developments on that front as well. guidelines on isolation. the effectiveness of home testing kits, mask wearing remain confusing or controversial and sometimes even contradictory. feels like a lot to process because it is a lot to process so tonight we want to devote plenty of time to answering the questions most of us still have. our randi kaye starts us off with a quick rundown. >> reporter: what are we supposed to think about rapid tests?
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the fda has announced that rapid-antigen tests may be less sensitive to picking up the omicron variant. meaning, they will spot an infection less often. pcr tests are considered the gold standard. but the fda still suggests people should continue to use rapid tests, so do they work? >> the answer is they do. they are very good when they are given sequentially but as a single test, they are not as sensitive. >> reporter: adding to the confusion? a statement from abbott -- the company that makes one of the authorized at-home tests binax now. binax now detected the virus in all tests an equivalent sensitivity as other variants and data from customers has not shown any change in test performance. still, the cdc isn't recommending any rapid tests as proof someone is covid free after isolation. >> we actually don't know how our rapid tests perform, and how well they predict whether you are transmissible during the end of disease. >> reporter: on the issue of
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masks, when and where should they be worn? paris, france, is mandating all people 11 and older in that city wear masks outdoors, as well as indoors. the decision was made after a record-breaking number of cases reported in a single day due, in particular, to the omicron variant the city police said. that hasn't happened yet on a large scale here in the u.s. but should it? why is paris masking outdoors, and not new york or miami? this was dr. anthony fauci in may. >> if you are vaccinated and you are outside, put aside your mask. you don't have to wear it. >> reporter: it isn't clear if that still holds true. and which masks really work? for sometime now, people in the u.s. have been wearing cloth masks but now experts say your best bet is a k n95 or n95 mask. that cloth masks are not as effective against the omicron variant. >> cloth masks are little more than facial decorations. there is no place for them in light of omicron.
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>> reporter: and if you tested positive after exposure, how long do you need to isolate? those rules are changing. just last week, the cdc issued new guidance lowering recommended isolation time from ten days to five days for asymptomatic people. critics worry that new guidance may allow infectious people to return to work. >> our guidance was conservative before. >> reporter: and what about those soaring hospitalizations? if omicron is supposed to be milder than delta, in most cases, then why are more than 100,000 people hospitalized with covid-19 for the first time in nearly four months? the u.s. department of health and human services, also, says about three-quarters of hospital beds across the country are full. and one in seven are for covid patients. >> when you have so many, many cases, there is still the danger that you are going to have a surging of hospitalizations that might stress the healthcare system. so it is kind of like a very interesting, somewhat complicated issue. >> reporter: complicated, for
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sure. and with covid confusion and the situation evolving at every turn, calculating personal risk is harder than ever. >> randi, it is really hard to keep up. but there is more changes in israel, as well. what is happening there? >> reporter: yeah, anderson. a bit of news out of israel today only adding to confusion for folks here in the u.s. israel now offering a fourth vaccine dose to those 60 and older so they have gone from the two doses of the mrna to the third dose which was the booster, and now this fourth dose for that age group. so that has a lot of folks here wondering are we going to have to get a fourth dose as well here in the u.s.? will people need the vaccine every three or four months? and nobody seems to be able to answer that question, at least not yet here in this country. so still, anderson, a lot of unknowns, a lot of questions and as you said, plenty of confusion. >> randi, appreciate it. joining us now, cnn -- or cnn chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta. also, dr. leana wen. cnn medical analyst, former baltimore health commissioner, and author of "lifelines, a doctor's journey in the fight
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for public health." so, sanjay, this is the first we have spoken since the omicron surge really took hold weeks ago. what do you make of what's and confusion over guidance from the government. >> yeah. well, happy new year, right? here we are back, again. i mean, i think there is a couple things that have really struck me. one as you just heard in randi's report is that the -- the number of cases is -- is really -- it's pretty staggering, right? if you compare this to last year's peak around this time, we are about, you know, close -- approaching two times what we saw around this time last year. now, at the same time, we have about 75% of the hospitalizations and this gets to that point that people have been making. look. this may be less severe for various reasons, because we have some existing immunity, because of the nature of this omicron variant, itself. who knows? we are not sure, entirely. but there does seem to be this decoupling of cases. but what you have heard, again, from randi's report and many other people is that when we start talking about such a high absolute number of infections,
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that's going to overwhelm hospitals. and that's really, i think, the biggest issue right now is that, you know, this gets back to the original dialogues we were having at the beginning of this about flattening the curve. we realize it's a very infectious virus out there. more infectious, more contagious than ever but the idea of having so many people become infected at the same time, no matter if it's less -- less lethal -- it's still going to be something that is going to overwhelm hospitals and that's the biggest concern. >> and, dr. wen, a pediatrician in houston, the co-leader of the covid command center at texas children's hospital told reporters late today they have, quote, staggering numbers of children hospitalized there. he said 80% of houston-area school kids are unvaccinated. how does that square with the argument that the variant isn't so bad? i mean, staggering numbers, obviously, sounds very bad. >> it is very bad and it's for the reasons that sanjay just laid out. that we have omicron -- omicron omnipresent at this point. it's just really hard to avoid
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this virus because of how widespread it is and so children, many of whom remain unvaccinated, are just getting infected at much larger numbers and as a result, a substantial proportion of them are now getting hospitalized. i will say, this is a major problem especially for our hospitals right now. not only because of covid but even before this wave, hospitals were being overrun. they were being overrun because of delta. but also, they are facing substantial staffing shortages, and also many patients put off their medical care and so hospitals that were already at the brink even a little bit additional from omicron is pushing them over the edge. and so, when it comes to children for parents of children 5 and above who are eligible to get the vaccine, what are you waiting for? this is the time that's the most dangerous for our children and the entire pandemic because of how widespread covid is. there is just virus everywhere. please get your children vaccinated, and that also, by the way, is key to protecting those kids under the age of 5 if older siblings, for example, are
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vaccinated, that is the whole idea of herd immunity to protect those who need our help the most. >> so, sanjay, all this confusion or frustration, shortage of rapid at-home tests, week-long appointments for pcr tests, long lines when you show up and five days for results. i mean, lot of people are just fed up, at their wit's end. what do you say to americans? >> i -- i -- i can understand that. and -- and you know, i think that the -- the testing thing still sort of baffles me as to how -- i mean, i think this is the original sin. and -- and in in medicine, you have to really diagnose a problem to best address it and we still don't really have clear eyes on -- >> i mean, it's nuts that we are still talking about not enough testing. i mean, this has been from day one in the old administration. i mean, it's ridiculous. >> it -- it is and i -- i'm not sure why it still continues to be this big a problem. yes, there are different tests out there. the antigen test, versus the pcr test and we spent a lot of time on your program talking about the differences and utility of each of those tests.
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but, you know, we should be doing in the billions of tents probably in a month. and right now, we are doing about a million, million and a half tests a day and we are nowhere close to where we projected we should be, you know, at this point in the pandemic. so, without the tests, everything else sort of falls apart. we don't know how widespread this is. there are a lot of people who are probably contagious walking around not knowing that they are even carrying the virus. some of these therapeutics that we talk about, like paxlovid for example, which could be very, very effective. we don't have enough of it, unfortunately. but if people aren't getting tested enough, they don't know that they even have this virus when they're developing some symptoms. they have to take these medications within five days. people can't get their test results or get a test within that period of time so it's really quite problematic. and again, going back to the hospitals, this is part of the reason why hospitalizations are likely to keep going up. i can tell you today, anderson, i -- i -- i operate on mondays. our hospital has been in and out of diversion over the last couple weeks, primarily because they are just getting an influx
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of all these patients. >> when you said diversion, what, asking people not to take some surgeries? >> yeah, so diversion basically you have a triage center in the hospital. so, you know, people are calling in. ambulances calling in saying can we bring patients to your hospital with, you know, whatever problem may be. non-covid-related problems. and oftentimes, because there is not enough bed or there is an anticipated surge of patients, the hospital has to go on diversion. so you have a situation where that affects non-covid patients, as well. people who, you know, aren't sick from covid, vaccinated and boosted not dealing with the problems of covid. this problem affects them as well. >> dr. wen, in randi's piece, you said cloth masks essentially are just window dressing or facial dressing. is that really -- i mean, you -- you -- people should not wear cloth masks? >> my point in saying this is not to say we shouldn't wear cloth masks if that is the only thing that's available to us. but rather that, at this point
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in the pandemic, when we are facing this contagious of a -- of a virus, that is airborne, that a simple cloth mask just is not going to do. i get so worried, anderson, when i see my patients walking around going to train stations and busy grocery stores wearing just a facial -- um, a simple cloth mask because i know that they think they are being protected when actually they're not. at the very least, people should be wearing a three-ply surgical mask. they could put a cloth mask on top for a better fit. ideally, they should be wearing a kn95 or n95. there are really good recommendations online about where to find them, where to find ones that are not counterfeit. and also, these could be reused often for a week or so at a time. they cost about a dollar. we should be distributing them free. also, people should be wearing n95s at this point and i know at this point in the pandemic, it's confusing. the risk to the individual person who is vaccinated and boosted is pretty low. but we are facing a potential collapse of our healthcare system. there are simple things that we
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can do to prevent that from happening, and one of them is wearing high-quality masks in all indoor public spaces. we should be doing that. while also trying to take away the stress from our healthcare system and just one last plea to everyone. if you are seeking a covid test, please do not go to the er. do not go to urgent care centers unless you know that is a service that they offer because our ers are getting so inundated, so overwhelmed right now that care for patients even who don't have covid is being -- is being compromised. >> dr. wen, thank you. sanjay gupta, as well. thanks so much. we have breaking news. big announcement by investigators running a separate civil investigation in new york state involving the former president and his children. details on the pushback tonight from ivanka and don trump jr. plus, many this week at the impact and fallout of the capitol insurrection, which occurred one year ago thursday. ahead, you will hear about the followers of the former president in a permanent state of denial about the facts. because a healthy life.
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lawyers for the former-president donald trump jr., and ivanka trump tonight are making the kind of legal argument you can only make when you are facing more than one investigation of the same kind of potential wrongdoing. they are trying to squash subpoenas for their testimony, two of which went out today to the trump children in new york's civil investigation into this type of alleged financial misdeed. >> it was my experience that mr. trump inflated his total assets when it served his purposes. such as, trying to be listed amongst the wealthiest people in "forbes," and deflated his assets to reduce his real estate taxes. >> that of course from former trump organization lawyer, michael cohen, testifying before congress in 2019 accusing the former president of doing what new york state and the manhattan da are both looking into, hence the subpoenas and now the attempt to squash them. joining us now with the latest, cnn's kara scannell. so what is the reaction from the attorney general of new york by the trumps to squash these subpoenas?
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>> yes, we almost immediately after the motions to squash the subpoenas hit the court docket, the new york attorney general letitia james tweeted out that she is undeterred. she said donald trump, donald trump jr., and ivanka trump are trying to stop my office from interviewing them under oath as part of our investigation into the trump organization. mr. trump. over two years of delayed tactics won't stop our investigation because no one is above the law. now, this comes, as you mention, as letitia james has subpoenaed not only donald trump jr. and ivanka trump but also the former president for testimony in this investigation that she is looking into widespread allegations by michael cohen and others that the trump organization, its executives have manipulated the finances. now, this subpoena is seeking not only their testimony but also records, the statements of financial condition that were provided to insurers and lenders, as well as any of the supporting documents that went into how they came up with these evaluations. now, trump's team is moving to quash this subpoena. trying to do an end run around
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state grand jury rules. in a criminal proceeding if you testify before a grand jury, you get what is called transactional immunity, meaning you can't be prosecuted unless you lie under oath. but if you testify in a civil case, you don't get that same protection. and they are arguing that she is trying to leverage her position in one of the investigations to help the other one. anderson. >> that's what's confusing. the subpoenas are part of a civil case. the attorney general is also involved in a criminal investigation, which is being run by the manhattan district attorney's office. >> that's right. i mean, this -- this -- she had launched this civil investigation into 2019. the manhattan district attorney's office launched their investigation, initially looking into the payments that were paid to stormy daniels to silence her allegations of an affair with trump. but then, they also began looking into the same conduct. michael cohen's interviewed with the manhattan da's office at least eight times. james then joined the da's investigation earlier-this year and she participated in the indictment that was announced against the trump organization and its cfo, allen weisselberg, relating to an alleged tax fraud
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scheme. so now, they are working together -- two attorneys from the ag's office have joined the prosecutors and that investigation is still ongoing. it's been active in recent weeks. there is a new, um, manhattan district attorney, alvin braggs, who was sworn into office on january 1st and he is now getting briefed on that investigation and it will continue on its own track, separate from the civil investigation. >> kara scannell, appreciate it. let's get some perspective from cnn legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, jeffrey toobin and preet bharara. who served as u.s. attorney in the district of new york. jeff, do you think the trumps are going to succeed in squashing these subpoenas? >> no, i don't. i think it's worth focusing on just sort of the big picture here, which is this isn't a prosecution. this is simply an attempt to take depositions. get information. and judges, basically, don't like it when witnesses try not to answer questions. there are certain, well-established privileges.
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you know, attorney-client privilege, spousal privilege, privilege against self-incrimination. there is no such thing as a father-son or parent-child privilege. so, you know, there is no basis that i can see that will allow the -- don jr. and ivanka to avoid testifying and i think a judge is going to say, no, you have to answer the question. >> and, preet, i mean, other people in the former president's orbit have publicly defied congressional subpoenas. if the trump children and the former president fail to squash these subpoenas in court, can they just try to blow them off and not comply? can people do that? >> yeah. you know, what gets complicated when we talk about the trumps is that there are so many investigations by different bodies. federal investigations, state investigations, congressional investigations. they are all governed by different precedents, different standards, different courts. it is a little bit easier, i hate to say, to flout a congressional subpoena because some of those precedents are not clear. um, there are separation of powers issues. this is a standard garden-variety civil
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investigation by a particular attorney general in a state. and all of those other things that we have been talking about for months and months -- executive privilege, deliberative process privilege, all those things going on in washington -- they don't pertain here. and so, i agree with jeffrey that i don't think there is a way to get out of it. it is true, from time to time, litigants will say, look, the investigators have asked for 100 things. it's onerous, it's overbroad. it doesn't relate to the basis of what they are looking at and the court will sometimes say you can't have 100 things, you can have 89 of those things but barring that, i don't see what the argument is. we will wait to see what the briefs say. i haven't seen it. but they don't have much of a leg to stand on and by the way, it is also my understanding that another sibling -- eric trump -- did testify in this particular proceeding so i think it makes even a more uphill battle for them. >> and, jeff, how -- go ahead, jeff. >> add one point there is one big issue with the january 6th
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investigation is that, you know, the committee just doesn't have a lot of time. you know, the -- the -- the -- you know, you have the campaign coming up. you have the likely republican takeover of the house. that doesn't apply. the attorney general james she is going to be there. the district attorney. they are going to be there year after year. so, you know, delay is certainly always something that the trumps are going to try but it's going to be a lot less effective when you are dealing with elected officials who have terms that go on for a period of years, unlike congress. >> and, preet, how does letitia james joining the investigation change things? does it somehow raise stakes for their testimony? >> i mean, so far, we understand the current dispute that we have been talking about to relate to the civil investigation. now, kara scannell brought up an interesting point and i will see how it's explained by the trump folks in their papers. it is true, as a general matter,
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by which you need to be careful. that if you have a parallel civil proceeding and a criminal proceeding, that you don't use the more generous and loose standards of the civil investigative proceeding to serve to help buttress your criminal case. that happens in -- in -- in ways that are familiar to a lot of people when the securities and exchange commission investigates some conduct of insider trading or something else and you also have prosecutors investigating it criminally. those things have to be kept separate and parallel in particular ways or you will get in trouble on the criminal side. so that is all true as a general matter. i see no evidence here, so far, that any kind of, you know, crossing over is happening in inappropriate way that would cause the subpoenas to be appropriately quashed. something i think is being thrown up against the wall but -- but there is that basic principle that people should be aware of, true. >> guys, appreciate it. thank you. just ahead, violence of the capitol insurrection almost one year ago and followers of the former president embraced conspiracies and their defense of him. the uncertain legacy of that day, when we continue.
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thursday marks the one-year anniversary of the capitol insurrection. the facts of what happened that day are not in dispute. followers of the former president tried oh overthrow an election. pushing a false story about a stolen election. a house select committee as you know is investigating. a source tells cnn the committee
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now has firsthand knowledge from multiple sources about what the president was doing during the riot, and two committee members -- bennie thompson and liz cheney -- say the information they have makes the case that he did nothing to stop the rioters who, again, were his followers. despite all of this, there are supporters of the former president who claim not to believe this accepted history. they say a dark-world conspiracy -- conspiracies were involved and those who pushed them. donie o'sullivan has more details about it. >> january 6th attack was not the republicans, nor trump. it was the democrats were behind it all. they are the ones that caused it all. >> reporter: you really believe that? >> i know it. and there is no way that a republican would act that way. there's no way trump had anything to do with what happened on january 6. >> what about trump's voters that have been indicted? >> because it's all democratic
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judges and people that were on the take from the democrats. >> reporter: it's been a year since the attack on the u.s. capitol. and because of disinformation, denial, and diversion, americans don't have a shared history, a shared understanding of what happened here on that day. >> i think the whole reporting of it is a giant hoax. we are very peaceful people, so it was a total setup to me. it was -- the fbi had set it up. i don't believe that they were trump supporters that did that. >> reporter: you said the whole thing is a setup. you don't really believe that, do you? >> i do. i do. because trump won the election. they -- they -- they've proven it over and over, again. >> i really don't think trump had much to do with it and people that were supporters for him -- some were involved but i think they were enticed by the fbi. and by -- by, you know, undercover agents.
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>> reporter: when i spoke to trump supporters here in washington on january 6th, most were in denial about the results of the 2020 election. do you accept that biden won the election? >> absolutely not. biden did not win this election. >> reporter: on january 6th, we walked with trump supporters who marched from the white house where trump was doing his speech here to the u.s. capitol. and as we arrived here that is when the first security barrier was breached. at the time, some trump supporters told me they were happy with what happened here at the capitol. are you proud of what happened here today? >> absolutely. i think we should have gone on in, and yanked the -- our senators out by the hair or the head and drug 'em out and said no more. >> i'm absolutely -- stand behind, 100%, what happened here today. 1,000%. i think it's terrible how this election was stolen.
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>> reporter: federal prosecutors have charged more than 700 people in connection with the capitol riot and repeatedly documented the rioters' support for president trump. but some people in right-wing media have pushed the dangerous idea that it was all an fbi plot. >> fbi operatives were organizing the attack on the capitol. >> reporter: there is absolutely no evidence, whatsoever, that this was some kind of false-flag event staged by the democrats or the fbi. what would you say to people who said january 6th was the biggest attack on american democracy since the civil war? >> absolute rubbish. >> reporter: amid all the denial and deflection, i met one trump supporter who said it was important to be real about what happened on that day. what do you think of the trump supporters that stormed the capitol? >> um, i -- you talk about mis -- mis-found feelings. um, seeing the folks from my side of the state that were
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there, and not the campaign that we would like to have. >> do you think some trump supporters that say it's antifa, it's black lives matter that they know it's bullshit but don't want to admit it's easier to blame someone else? >> everyone is afraid to, you know, take the blame. it's that simple. >> donie o'sullivan joins us now. that question you just asked -- that last question -- it is the one i think about all the time. i mean, you know, the people you are talking to -- do they really, really, deeply believe it and a lot of them seem to really believe it when they say it to you. or do they just know, you know, they don't want it to be true and so they say it's not? >> yeah. i mean, i think there are some folks there who just know this is the talking point and that's what they should say and they really do know what happened. but as you see in that piece, you know, there are people just like who genuinely believe the election was stolen and that american democracy is a joke,
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they really, really believe the lies about what happened here at the capitol a year ago. and, you know, that is stunning to hear it but it's not necessarily surprising when you think of there was a very sophisticated infrastructure of disinformation by design. whether it's the right-wing cable media or online on social media. so, if you want to live in this narrative and plays into your biases, you can really -- you can -- you can live happily in that world and not really have your viewpoint challenged at all. >> donie o-sullivan, appreciate it as always. up next, report you just saw and what it may say about the state of our country with "new york times" columnist tom frieden. a'. 100% online car buying. car vending machines. and now, putting you in control of your financing. at carvana, get personalized terms, browse for cars that fit your budget, then customize your down payment and monthly payment. and these aren't made-up numbers. it's what you'll really pay, right down to the penny. whether you're shopping or just looking. it only takes a few seconds,
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thank you, san francisco. gracias, san francisco. -thank you. -[ speaks native language ] let's keep making a difference together. one big question about the january 6th attacks one year later is how do deal with the republican base who refuse basic facts of that day. this is what someone told our reporter. >> january 6th attack was not the republicans, nor trump. it was the democrats were behind it all. they are the ones that caused it all. >> you really believe that? >> i know it.
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>> i think the whole reporting of it is a giant hoax. we are very peaceful people, so it was a total setup to me. it was the fbi had set it up. i don't believe that they were trump supporters that did that. >> joined by "new york times" columnist tom frieden, who is author of a number of best sellers including "the world is flat." tom, those ladies seem like lovely ladies who were probably great citizens in their communities and have great families and it's -- it's -- what do you think when you hear them say what seems so obviously not to be the truth? >> well, you know, more and more, it's becoming obvious, anderson, that we're -- a lot of people in our country, whether it's on january 6th or on vaccines or any other things, they're marinaded in, um, social network sites. they are down rabbit holes. and um, we no longer share basic truths. um, and the country, as a whole, is kind of losing its cognitive immunity, its ability to really
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sort out fact from fiction. >> you know, i was -- i mean, i think about this a lot -- i was thinking in, you know, when there were demonstrations in the '60s and the country seemed in turmoil, and there were fights with construction workers and antiwar protestors. i mean, is it -- i -- i guess it's worse now than it was then? i mean, i -- as somebody who grew up just kind of seeing those images, and -- and seeing it in documentaries and stuff. that just seemed like real turmoil. is it worse now? >> well, it was real turmoil, first of all. but it was filtered through basically a kind of edited news filter of abc, nbc, cbs, "new york times", "washington post." there were basic shared facts in truth that we trusted -- all of us. you know, i think what's happened since then. i think of america today, anderson, as kind of a boiling pot. the pot would be boiling no matter who was president. it is boiling because we are going through huge social change, culturally in the country.
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huge change in the demographic of the country. technology changes chlts. so the pot would already be boiling then along comes facebook, twitter, news media, in general. uh, fox. and they turn the heat up on the pot and they are boiling the pot. and then, along came donald trump. and he took the lid off the pot. he made it permissible to say things to and about each other that we never said, before. that we never said before in public. and to me, the big question i have on my mind is what is the republican party after donald trump? i don't know when that will be. um, and -- and i'm not talking about his life or death but after he would hopefully leave politics. okay. what would it be? because there is only one good thing about donald trump. god only made one of him. god only made one of him, and there is no one you know in your life or have ever experienced that is as shameful as he is -- shameless, excuse me -- shameful and shameless -- to literally lie about -- about the most obvious things.
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so, what is the republican party after then? what people follow ted cruz? i don't think -- i wouldn't follow ted cruz into an elevator. so, i -- i -- really asking for the republican party come back to some senses after this? >> to that point, in a column you wrote following the january 6th attack, i remember when you wrote this and i think you were on to talk about it. you said my number one wish for america today is for this republican party to fracture, splitting off the principled republicans from the unprincipled republicans and trump cultists. that was -- i mean, that was basically a year ago. why do you think that big split didn't happen? >> well, you know, partly, i think we all wanted -- covid. we were absorbed by the pandemic and i think we all -- we just wanted this to go away. okay? i think 2022 is going to be crunch time. you know, larry hogan -- my governor in maryland -- um, he has been going around the country raising money for republicans who are on trump's enemies list and that's a very interesting experiment going on.
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and let's see what -- what energy he galvanized. at the same time, the american business community. the big business community of america. many of them announced after january 6th, anderson, that they would not donate to anyone who voted to decertify the election. are they going to hold to that promise going forward? will their shareholders hold them to that promise? will their employees hold them to that promise? so i think 2022 is going to be a real year of decision in the way 2021 was not. you know, liz cheney, anderson, she said it so beautifully. you know, we can be either loyal to donald trump or we can be loyal to the constitution. but we can't be loyal to both. >> cheney said over the weekend that the committee had firsthand testimony about what the president -- then president was doing on january 6th that ivanka trump asked her father at least twice to intervene to stop the attacks. i mean, is there anything you think, any information that could come to light, that would change the minds of some of the people we just heard from tonight in -- in the very strong
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trump base? >> i don't believe there's any information that will change anyone's minds. what i do believe is there are principled republicans out there who do not want donald trump to be their party's candidate. they don't think it is good for the party or the country and i think if enough of them get together whether it's behind larry hogan or someone else and run a principled republican candidate so trump cannot win one more round, um, and return to the white house. that would be doing the lord's work. at the same time, democrats have to hue to the center, too. i really believe, anderson, the country, america today sits somewhere between don't dismantle the police and don't dismantle the constitution. now, one is -- than the other, no question. this is not false equivalency. one is much bigger than the other but emotionally, there is a big part of america that really sits between those two and they don't like when progressives tell them not to worry about the first and they don't like it when republicans tell them not to worry about the second. >> you write about and report about russia a lot.
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i want to ask you about the ongoing tensions right now between the u.s. and russia over ukraine. president biden spoke, again, with ukrainian president on sunday saying that the u.s. and its allies will, quote, respond decisively, end quote, if russia invades ukraine. what actions are -- i mean, what's in the quiver here? >> yeah, what's in the quiver is, you know, taking russia off the swift system that will really, you know, inhibit its ability to transfer capital through global banking system. there will be a lot more sanctions, i'm sure. one thing we are not going to do is go to war. we could also arm the ukrainians. this is -- this is madness when you think about it, anderson. i mean, vladimir putin woke up in about 2012 and said you know what? i am actually not going to run on trying to build a silicon valley in -- in russia. try to focus on economic growth. i am actually going to run on these sort of cultural religious symbols, restoring the great glory of the soviet union, russia, and the motherland. he has been doing that ever since but to now put himself up
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a tree to say to us, look, you basically -- you, the west, nato, you, america, you have to recognize russia's authority and its -- um, you know, sphere of influence over both the former-soviet satellite and eastern europe, the warsaw pact. that's not going to happen so i don't know how this is going to end. i'm worried, anderson. vladimir putin is up a tree. >> tom frieden, thank you. >> reminder this thursday cnn is going to mark the one-year anniversary with the attack with a live two-hour broadcast from the capitol to honor those heroes who protected our democracy that day. police, lawmakers, leaders who remembered that day will join jake tapper and myself live from the capitol january 6th one year later begins thursday at 8:00 p.m. up next tonight, more breaking news. the jury reaching a partial verdict in the trial of elizabeth holmes -- the former ceo and founder of failed blood testing startup, theranos. use a. starts with a healthy immune system. with vitamins c and d, and zinc.
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breaking news tonight, a jury has found elizabeth holmes, the former ceo, guilty on 4 out of 11 charges. she was convicted on four charges of fraud and acquitted
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on four other charges, those related to patient fraud. the jury was deadlocked on the three other charges. the jury deliberated for seven days and more than 50 hours. you have been following the trial closely, what is your reaction to the verdict? >> it was truly a mixed verdict, we knew earlier today it was likely to come back like this. the jury said, hey, we cannot reach a unanimous verdict on three of the charges, so we knew it was coming. it was more mixed than i thought. they had a mistrial on the patient count, as you said, or the mistrial on the investor counts and not guilty on the patient counts. it seems that the jury went carefully looking at the evidence specifically and said, hey, yes, they proved this count. no, they didn't prove this count and split the difference here.
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>> i also want to bring in sarah, jury consultant alan, what did you make of the verdict? >> a lot of times juries come in to it with a predetermined verdict in mind. and then they work backwards and then use the law to fit with how they want the case to turn out. this jury did not do it. it was a legalistic jury, they focused on the law and they treated each count distinctly and they read carefully the words and key passages and decided that she was guilty on four of the counts and not guilty for the other counts. for the remaining three, at some point in the deliberation, jurors on both sides, not guilty and guilty camps said something to the affect of, look, this is how i feel and you are not going to convince me otherwise and they decided to tell the judge they were deadlocked. >> sarah, i mean, this whole
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story of theranos is fascinating. i read the book "bad blood," if you have not, you should. there's a great documentary called "the innovator," i thinks it is. can you explain for those that have not been following it, can you try to explain what happened with theranos. >> she arose in 2003, it's been more than a decade. it was really, captured the imagination because elizabeth holmes was very intriguing. it was an image that captivated people and what she said was captivating. she said, hey, i can eliminate the large vial of bloods and take a finger prick and test for a couple hundred health conditions with it and people wanted the technology to work. it was a start-up that had a lot of hype and had hundreds of millions dollars and what with
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came out in the trial and the reporting is the technology never worked like she said it did. it was limited to what it could do and instead, she was using conventional blood testing machines that any other lab testing company could use. but was not being transparent about that and so it started to unravel as they reported on it and other legal consequences followed. >> the "wall street journal's" reporting has been unbelievable. what is next in terms of sentencing? >> sentencing will follow, first we have the three counts that the jury did not reach consensus on, and in the coming weeks they will have hearings about it and the government could retry them, it seems like it could be unlikely given that they did have some guilty verdicts but we will find out, sentencing will be likely months from now. she faces a maximum of 20 years from the counts she was found guilty on. stacking is not likely in these cases but we will see what kind of sentencing they suggest, it could be months away. >> i appreciate it, thank you so covid hospitalizations children
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reaching the highest numbers ever, if omicron is a milder strain, why are we seeing a peak in children's cases, we will take a look at that and go in inside the largest children's hospital next. ancestry threads all of the little facts together into a narrative so you get to feel like you're walking the same path they did.
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