tv New Day With John Berman and Brianna Keilar CNN January 26, 2022 5:00am-6:00am PST
investigation connected to the highest levels of trump world. we're talking rudy giuliani, and others. the department is reviewing the fake electoral college certifications from 2020 that falsely declared former president trump the winner of seven states, states that he lost. deputy attorney general lisa monaco told cnn's evan perez the justice department will address conduct of any kind and at any level that is part of an assault on our democracy. >> the fake electoral college certifications were signed by trump supporters who falsely claimed to be the rightful electors in nevada, arizona, new mexico, wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, and georgia. and some of the bogus certifications were actually sent to the national archives in mid-december of 2020, by top state republican party officials. >> federal prosecutor and the author of the wonderful new book "just pursuit: a black prosecutor's fight for fairness
," laura coates. cnn broke this yesterday. lisa monaco confirming there is an investigation, an active investigation into these fake electoral college certificates, which were something we know that rudy giuliani and others, senior players in trump world, were involved with. so how significant is the fact that we now know such an investigation exists? >> this is extremely significant. and one that should actually be happening. remember, it is not just the hypothetical conversations happening in some back room or war room about i wonder what it would look like if you tried to overturn an election or derail a certification process. you would actual steps, actual overt steps in the action and trying to create the perception that the lawful, the real legitimate slate of electors were not actually that. and so you had but for the actions and decision of the then vice president mike pence to not follow the advice, not to go through this, even having him on
the floor that day, used particular language as you recall, john, to suggest that there was essentially two different sets and this is what was going to be looked at and this was legitimate, it was far more nefarious and thought out and strategic than we even believed. so it is right that in a country where we have laws against trying to interfere with elections, laws against fraudulent activity, at the doj would look at this issue. >> can i ask you, the fact that the deputy attorney general lisa monaco said this to evan perez in this terrific interview, this was something that cnn broke, the fact that she said it doesn't seem accidental. it seems she wouldn't have answered the question unless she wanted that information out there, the whole doj did. why would they want this public at this point? >> well, think about the idea of how the public is viewing the -- what perceives as the contemplative action of the department of justice. questions about the length of the investigation, is anything really getting done? there has been accusations leveed against merrick garland, the attorney general, about whether or not he was
contemplative to the point of being paralyzed in thought or whether he was dotting every i and crossing every t. i suspect in part it was said to essentially say, listen, transparency, we're not sitting on our hands doing nothing, we are doing things, but she very well could have said what is more a customary thing, we don't comment on the existence of any investigation whether it is there. she said that i won't talk further about this ongoing investigation, which is very, very telling, given she is known for her precise and deliberate language. >> as i said, rudy giuliani is known to have been involved with this effort for the fake certificates, which were out of the public. this is not something they tried to hide. but how nervous should giuliani be this morning? >> well, this and you add that to the pile of other things going on, since the big lie, and his role in it, ideas about the dominion voting machines, ideas about metastasizing the big lie, whatever role he may have had, an individual jurisdiction as well, it is a pile-on and not one that is not justified.
remember, it is talking about the anatomy of the big lie here. it wasn't just said one time, it wasn't spewed in one conference room or one courtroom. this was part of a concerted effort that is appearing more and more to try to subvert the will of the people. and the certification process of the electoral college. and so anyone who had a hand in it, don't think that by virtue of being an attorney that somehow a privileged argument will shield you. if you're involved in criminal behavior, if somebody else knows about it, of course, the privilege, of course, is then conditional and qualified, or if you engage in the behavior yourself. there are many people now we're seeing whose fingerprints are all over it and i'm looking more and more to what the january 6th committee is doing and the timing of the people they have chosen to ask of late to come and appear, after hundreds of people have already given information. i wonder now if they are corroborating what they already know, or they're actually having revelatory information from any of these people. i suspect it is the former.
>> i will tell you this is a discussion for another time, court after court after court has decided that privilege does not shield a wide range of people who are being investigated for the january 6th insurrection at this point. that's worth watching going forward. laura coates, thank you very much for being with us this morning. >> thank you. president biden says he made it clear to russian president vladimir putin that any invasion of ukraine would bring severe consequences to russia, including severe sanctions against putin himself. this morning, russian troops are amassing on the border as the u.s. calls the invasion threat imminent. ukraine disagrees. so let's discuss this with ukraine's ambassador to the united nations, sergi kisliska. ambassador, thank you so much for being with us this morning. your country is saying an invasion is not imminent. the u.s. says it is imminent. which is it? >> in fact, first of all, good
morning, everyone. i would need to say that there is no contradiction between the ukrainian and american assessment of the position. that is basically playing with words. the invasion is possible and we are all on record alert. there is no different between the u.s. administration and the ukrainian administration about what is going on at the borders of ukraine. >> but there is. one is saying, yes, it is imminent. one is saying, no, it's not. >> i would need to repeat that we agree with the intelligence assessment that the russian troops are amassed at the ukrainian border at very impressive unprecedented numbers, which is not still in -- for russians to go in ukraine and to hold the ukrainian territory for prolonged period of time, which does not mean they cannot do that. you know? >> okay. there is a different characterization.
so i think especially for audiences that are trying to make sense of where things are, i just wanted to kind of get to the bottom of that. but nonetheless, how soon are you expecting a potential invasion? >> the invasion can take anytime now, but we should not panic and we do not panic. i can only speak about what we do here with the united nations in new york. and i need to assure you that all the partners, all the members of the security council have daily consultations, and we are ready to act anytime soon. >> president biden was pretty clear when he was talking about personally sanctioni ing vladim putin, something other presidents shied away from. he's looking at that. would that deter putin? >> the sanctions needed even as preemptive measure and we welcome what the -- what the
white house is saying and we commend to the very strong position of the white house as well as position of the prime minister of the uk boris johnson and he repeated that today speaking to the house of commons. >> you spoke on monday, i know, with your german counterpart. germany has been pretty vague about how much they'll support ukraine, raising doubts then about how much they will actually support you. do you think that germany, though, will give you more support than they have committed to publicly? >> i personally think that germany has no other option than sooner than later. they make the only right decision, and that's the decision to do everything possible to avert the military confrontation on the continent with potentially global implications. and i have confidence with respect to the germany position. i'm in contact with the german ambassador here in new york.
the normandy four including germany meets today in paris and we are all looking forward to the outcome of the meeting in paris today. >> because what happens if germany doesn't -- you're talking about germany, obviously, just needs to do -- needs to do this. what happens if germany doesn't? what does that look like? >> what happens -- i'm not going to discuss hypothetical situations. i'm very much confident that sooner than later we will make the only right choice, the choice is peace and doing everything possible to avert another war in europe. >> look, i don't know it is hypothetical. you're looking at russian forces amassed on three sides of your country. and, look, i ask you this because americans are looking at this, trying to make sense of it, and trying to understand why they should be paying attention to it. what happens if you don't have countries like germany and other
european nations providing you the support you need? >> look, we are getting the support, both militarily and politically and even if germany will procrastinate in expressing its support verbally or by action, the ukrainians will fight anyway. and, you know, ukrainians are determined to protect their country. and it will result unfortunately in many, many casualties. and that is a responsibility of everyone to do everything possible to avoid this bloodshed in europe. >> there is a lot at stake. this is a key moment in time, and ambassador, i really appreciate you taking the time to join us. ukraine's ambassador to the united nations, thank you. >> thank you. have a good day. >> you too, sir. moments ago, prime minister boris johnson taking an absolute grilling from parliament as he is awaiting a government report
that could determine his political future. and not for sale, a texas woman arrested, she is accused of trying to buy a baby from another walmart shopper. plus -- ♪ i'm still standing better than i've ever been ♪ >> so he's still standing, just not on stage. won't you come out to play? why some elton john fans are going to be disappointed this morning. i don't just play someone brainy on tv - i'm an actual neuroscientist. and i love the science behind neuriva plus. unlike ordinary memory supplements, neuriva plus fuels six key indicators of brain performance. more brain performance? yes, please! neuriva. think bigger.
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johnson facing a barrage of criticism from members of parliament avalon done police announced they're investigating multiple parties he threw during lockdown that possibly break the law. laws that he helped set. all this while he waits a government report that could determine his political future. >> i welcome the decision to conduct their own investigation because i believe this will help to give the public the clarity it needs. we got to leave the report to the independent investigators. and, of course, when i receive it, of course i will do exactly what i said. the reality is that we now have the shameful spectacle of a prime minister of the united kingdom being subject to a police investigation.
unable to lead the country, incapable of doing the right thing, and every day his cabinet fails to speak out, they become more and more complicit. >> how much longer before the mps let this go on for. how much more damage are they willing to do? and it is time to get this over with. show the prime minister the door! >> joining me now, salma abdelaziz and sony pernell, the author of "just boris," a stale of blond ambition. tell us where the investigation stands. because we are expecting the possibility of some news today. >> john, this is make or break for prime minister boris johnson. we are expecting one of the reports, remember, there is now two investigations ongoing into multiple allegations of parties behind me here at the prime
minister's residence and offices. one of those reports being led by a senior civil servant, the name sue gray. called the gray report here. that gray report is set to be released any minute now. opposition lawmakers have wanted it to go out before prime minister's questions. that didn't happen. and it is that report, john, that is going to outline for lawmakers minute by minute a breakdown of what occurred inside downing street. that information is going to be critical to prime minister boris johnson's own party because right now they're making a very tough decision, john. they're deciding whether or not johnson is still their man, whether or not he's still fit to lead this country. and if that inquiry shows that prime minister boris johnson is in any way implicated in, again, these multiple allegations of partying at downing street, that's when they could make the decision to push him out, to stop supporting him, and trigger the moves for a no confidence vote. >> one of the things that american viewers need to know, the conservative party holds all
the cards here in terms of boris johnson's future. it is the party that gets to decide whether or not he will remain as prime minister. sonya, you called boris johnson houdini for all of his political escapes. this time you think may be different. why? >> well, i mean, he has -- it really has been a scandal a day for most of boris johnson's life. he has always got away with it until now. i do think this is different. i think the reason is it is about emotion, it is about the nation's heart, the nation's soul. the fact was what we discovered was that here was a prime minister, setting rules to get through covid. and britain had one of the worst death tolls in the world from covid. and indeed one of the worst economic hits as well. but we went along with the rules because we thought they were sensible, the prime minister himself would be obeying them. so the day before the famous -- now famous downing street garden party for instance, i buried my
own, she died from covid, we were allowed only ten people at the funeral. i mean, it was heart breaking, so many family, friends, neighbors couldn't come. and then we discovered that the prime minister of great britain setting those rules was in the garden of downing street with 30, 40 other people drinking wine, eating cheese and all rest of it. this has become -- this is a real shock. it is something that everyone can understand, everyone can feel. and i think that's why this is a different scandal from all the others. it may seem trivial to you, particularly when all the other things are going on in the world. it cuts through to all of us. that's why it's different. >> i'm glad you brought that up. i think you could hear some of the american audience say, well, wait a second, we all now know that being outside with people is pretty safe. so why is he being punished for something we know is pretty safe. but your own personal story and, first of all, i'm very sorry for your loss, to have to go through
that during the pandemic on top of everything else would be very painful, but this is something that people connect to and relate to. >> absolutely it is. and you say, yes, of course, they were outside and of course being outside was -- it was and is safer. but it was against the law. if you met someone more than one person from outside your household and got within two meters of them, you were breaking the law. and many, many people were prosecuted and had to pay fines. some of those people, you know, really hard up. there was an absolutely heart breaking story of an elderly gentleman, going to allotments where he grew his vegetables, meeting up with someone else who was growing vegetables, he had no one else in his life, and he was fined 100 pounds, which is about $150. and this guy just didn't have $150. but meanwhile, in the same day, the prime minister is the
downing street guard arden withr 40 other people drinking wine. >> sonia, salma, thank you, both. a huge day, what will this report say and will boris johnson's own party turn on him? we could know within a few hours. thank you very much for being with us. so, here in the united states, the omicron surge seems to have peaked in large parts of the country. so what does it mean? how do we plan for what hopefully is a much, much better future? big papi adding a hall of fame induction to his three world series rings. that was a given. but then who didn't get in? the controversy, we'll talk about it. it was a tragedy. with knockoff batteries, little miss cupcake never stood a chance. until, energizer ultimate lithium. who wants a cupcake? the number one longest-lasting aa battery. yay! case closed.
important because i think we need to start asking, okay, what now? i know that there is still omicron cases, hospitalizations and deaths are still high, but we also know that we're past the peak in cities that were hit first and worst here. so we can now talk about the future, and you say it is very important that when the cases get down low enough that we lift some of the restrictions like indoor mask wearing and what not. why? >> yes, good morning. thank you for having me back. first of all, we're two years into this pandemic and people i think are feeling rightly exhausted by all of this. what i lay out is that we need a new strategy moving forward and that strategy does not have us in emergency mode all the time because none of us knows how long this pandemic is going to last. we don't know which variant is going to come. second, we got to get out of the prediction business of knowing which variant will hit us when. none of us have been able to do that very well. let's relax things when infections get better, signal to
people if we see another surge, we're going to need to go back and put some more public health restrictions in place. and let's prepare for future surges. if they never come, terrific. but the bottom line is, we need to have a much more aggressive preparation mentality. >> if cases are low, and things are good, act like it. so that when things get bad, you can make the changes you need. so how do you prepare for the possibility of a surge in cases? >> yeah. so, you know, because we're two years in, we know a lot about this virus. and every variant, they're all a little different, they're still the same underlying virus and we know how to manage it. you know the list. what we need to have lots and lots of tests, ramp up production, have it in stores so the next time we have a surge, we can get them out to people and flood the zone with tests. we need to develop -- and we have some great therapeutics, we don't have enough doses, we have to build up our stores of that as well. we should start working on future generations of vaccines. the vaccines we have now are
terrific, but they were developed for the original variant, we should start thinking about kind of broader vaccines, broader protection. and then the key here, i think, is communicating with people, we're not going to be in a forever emergency, we'll be able to manage future surges, let's relax when we can and then let's manage the surge when it hits us again. >> i think it is interesting that people aren't talking more about the fact that we're past the worst of it in places that were hit hard by omicron. it would actually help. it might help. what are the chances that after omicron, given how many people are vaccinated in the u.s. and how many people had omicron infections that we could hit a stage, you know, i hesitate to use this language, the best ever for all of us in terms of coronavirus since it started. >> yeah, i'm pretty optimistic that that's what we're going to see. obviously, again, you have to be a bit humble about what happens in the future, but, look, we have got 60 some odd percent of people fully vaccinated. we have probably 120 million
americans will have got infected by omicron alone in this surge. put it all together, very high levels of population immunity. that should mean the spring is reasonably good and the summer too. assuming we don't get a new variant. >> again, now is the time to start talking about this. talk about things that they might get better. it will help people. dr. ashish jha, thank you very much. >> thank you. a surge in gun violence has new york city's mayor cracking down, but do his tough on crime tactics conflict with the new district attorney? manhattan d.a. alvin bragg joins us next. robert kennedy jr. rightly getting some major backlash for comparing vaccine mandates to nazi germany, including from his fa famous wife. we'll tell you what she said. midnight to morning, she's in command. all-day comfort. all-night shift. head nurse. heart on h her sleeve. so, when leaks show w up, our protection helps kekeep them dry.
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and this comes as new york city is seeing an increase of gun violence, which has prompted the mayor, mayor eric adams, to crack down. let's talk with manhattan's district attorney alvin bragg. thank you so much, and, of course, you know, our heart felt condolences to your city with the passing of yet another officer. we do appreciate you joining us on this very important day, this important moment. we hear the mayor talking about instituting an anti-gun police unit. do you have any concerns with that? >> it is a horrific tragedy in our city on friday night, and the city is mourning and standing side by side with members of the nypd. i've been in touch with the mayor throughout the early part of the year here. and in consultation and talking and guns are, you know, an urgent issue that i've been working on for years and we have to redouble our efforts and i look forward to partnering with the mayor and the nypd and
specifically, you know, the mayor talked about the revamping and doing this in a different way, and so i'm looking forward to having conversations with him about how it is going to be rolled out differently. for example, i understand they won't be plains clothes, they'll be marked as new york city police officers. >> any other concerns about the anti-gun police unit? >> i'm looking forward to talking with the mayor and hearing more about the rollout. we need to be responding and what i call an all of the above way, which is using our kind of gun possession cases, gun trafficking, community violence interrupters and looking forward to engaging with the mayor as we go into more of the logistical nuts and bolts. so looking forward to having that conversation with him. >> let's talk about your approach here, your approach generally has been more to use
resources on more serious crimes, to prioritize, i think is sort of how you characterized it, let emphasis on prosecuting nonviolent crimes, including not prosecuting people for possessing a weapon unless they were involved in a violent crime. so they're arrested, it sounds like, for a nonviolent crime, they have in their possession a weapon, that seems to be at odds with what the mayor is proposing and also seems to be a little bit at odds of what you have been talking about of prosecuting more in the traditional sense these gun charges. >> yeah, look, for those that don't know me, i'm a career state and federal prosecutor. i've done gun possession cases, i've done cases involving guns. i talked about a couple of exceptions like my brother-in-law who was prosecuted and went to jail for more than a year for a gun he didn't know about and didn't touch, it was on -- during a college schoolyard fight, but that's the exception. the rule in my office is, you
know, gun possession is serious. prosecuted as a felony. we have been doing that since the beginning of -- been doing it throughout my career. >> why the emphasis then on holding people accountable in what you would say is the traditional sense? why the need to make that clear to people? >> well, because i think we're in an urgent crisis now. i know around the dinner tables and the water coolers, we're all talking about guns and want to be clear as the district attorney of manhattan that that's what i'm going to sleep thinking about, what i'm waking up thinking about and that it is all of the above, gun possession cases, it is taking the gun possession cases and using technology and tracing to turn them into gun trafficking cases. it is working with our community groups that are interrupting violence before it happens, it is doing all of that. so, yes, i'm talking about guns, i've been talking about guns -- in the last six months, the last 20 years. but right now with renewed urgency given the spike in gun
violence in our city. >> so as an example of someone, you know, either by themselves, maybe they do it in a group, commit a nonviolent crime, say they steal food from a bodega or something, it turns out that they or one of them has a gun, they're arrested, do you prosecute them for possession of a weapon? >> yes. yes. the example i gave, which i talked about, which may have led to some confusion is, my family member, this was years ago, not in new york, he wasn't the person, it was someone else that was arrested, the gun, didn't know about it, didn't touch it, but someone who was walking around our city, carrying a gun, we're doing those cases, we're doing those cases vigorously and those are important to our public safety, you know, message and to the deterrence in our city, they're high priorities for my office. >> just to be clear, you have multiple people involved in that theft, one has a gun, one makes an argument they didn't know
about the gun, whether or not that is proven or not, you're saying you would prosecute the person possessing the gun, not the person not possessing the gun, is that correct? >> obviously upon the circumstances, the example i was given, which, again, was, i don't want to get stuck on that example, was a schoolyard fistfight where it wasn't involving the use of the gun, and the evidence showed that the others didn't know about it. obviously we have instances where people are -- people go to rob a store together and one has a gun, they're working in concert to do another crime. so the general rule, rather than dwelling on the -- if you got a gun and you're walking around manhattan, we're going to prosecute you, hold you accountable for that as a felony and that's important to me and to the office. >> all right, sir, i do appreciate you joining us. and, again, we're so sorry, so sorry to your community as they are dealing with this loss. manhattan district attorney
alvin bragg, thank you. >> thank you. a walmart shopper arrested after allegedly asking a fellow customer if she could buy her child. plus, you know the rule -- >> the first rule of fight club is you do not talk about fight club. second rule of fight club is -- >> honestly, one of the craziest stories you'll ever hear. what china just did to the ending of fight club that has us all breaking the rules. because we are talking about fight club. my plaque psoriasis... ...the itching... the burning. the stinging. my skin was no longer mine. my psoriatic arthritis, made my joints stiff, swollen... painful. emerge tremfyant®. with tremfya®, adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis... ...can uncover clearer skin and improve symptoms at 16 weeks. tremfya® is the only medication of its kind also approved for adults with active psoriatic arthritis. serious allergic reactions may occur. tremfya® may increase your risk of infections
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president trump the winner in seven states he lost. trump allies in nevada, arizona, new mexico, wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania and georgia signed the fake certifications claiming to be rightful electors. the white house calling a russian invasion of ukraine imminent as american troops are placed on high alert to deploy to eastern europe. president biden also said that he would consider personally sanctioning russian president vladimir putin if russia invades ukraine. that's a step that previous presidents shied away from. elton john's farewell tour hitting another sag. he tested positive for coronavirus. two of his tour dates in dallas are postponed. elton john is fully vaccinated and boosted. he says he has mild symptoms. he just returned to the stage after almost two years because of the pandemic and hip surgery. and anti-vaxxer robert f. kennedy jr. apologizing after comparing vaccine mandates to nazi germany. his wife actress cheryl hines is
condemning his comments as reprehensible and insensitive. >> yikes. about to break the first rule of fight club by talking about fight club. but i have to here, china has released a different ending for the film where, spoiler alert, in case you intend to see the chinese version, instead of fireworks and taking down consumerism, you see only this caption, explaining how police saved the day, captured the criminals and sent tyler durton to the insane asylum. >> that is not what happened. what's the point? what is the point of the movie then? >> i have to say, it is really an unbelievable case of censorship right there. >> gosh, it makes me want to rewrite other movies that didn't go the way they were. those are the five things to know for your "new day." we'll have more on these stories all day on cnn.com. check that out. and don't forget to download the 5 things podcast every morning, go to cnn.com/5things and you can also find it wherever you get your podcasts. texas police arresting a woman after she allegedly tried
to buy another woman's 1-year-old child for $500,000 at walmart. cnn's rosa flores is live in houston with more. rosa, tell us about this. >> reporter: brianna, good morning. according to police, all of this happened in crockett, texas, a small town, 120 miles north of houston here where i am. police say a woman by the name of rebecca taylor, approached a shopper at walmart that was at the self-check out, she was there with her baby, and 1-year-old son and this woman started commenting about the boy's blonde hair and blue eyes, and then offered to purchase the child. the mom laughed it off thinking it was a joke, but taylor according to police actually offered the woman $250,000. the mom responded, no money will do, the mom waited for taylor to leave the walmart. but taylor was outside of the walmart, and in the parking lot, according to police, taylor
approached this mother again saying that $250,000 wasn't enough, what about $500,000? what about half a million dollars? this mom, locked herself inside her car with her children, and according to police, taylor continued to scream at this woman, that she was willing to pay $500,000 for her child. eventually taylor drove off, according to police, that's when this mom called the police, officers responded, reviewed the surveillance video from inside the walmart, and, remember, this is a small town, police identified taylor from that surveillance video, they then arrested her, charged her with the sale or purchase of a child, a third degree felony. she has since bonded out and, brianna, cnn's attempts to reach taylor have not been successful. >> so many more questions about this. rosa, thank you for that report. here's what else to watch today.
a scary situation involving apple ceo tim cook, who is the target of an alleged armed stalker. plus -- >> baseball has selected you to the national baseball hall of fame. >> yes! >> he's in as he should be. but who's not? creating a giant controversy. at fidelity, you can make a free plan for what matters, even if you don't have it all figured out. it's more like...a feeling. turning that feeling into a roadmap...for free?
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this jersey we wear today, it doesn't say red sox. it says boston. this is our [ bleep ] city. and nobody going to dictate our freedom. stay strong. thank you! >> that was david ortiz, the boston red sox, putting a city on his burly shoulders after the boston marathon bombing. should i call him hall of famer david ortiz. the baseball writers elected big papi to the hall of fame with his first year on the ballot. the controversy is about who did not get in. barry bonds and roger clemens, whose stats and careers, their numbers put them among the greatest players ever like greatest five or ten players ever. they missed out on the final year of eligibility. their links to performance enhancing drugs sparked a debate should they be in?
joining us now, susan lesslesse former president of the baseball writers association of america and bob ryan, columnist for "the boston globe," susan, barry bonds, roger clemene enclemens, let them in, why? >> my thinking about this has evolved over the years and thank you for having me on to talk about this because it is such an important top nick saic in san francisco. i did not vote for bonds and cl clemens first couple of years they were eligible. as soon as the leaders of that era went in automatically, upon their eligibility, i'm talking about people like bud selig and sony la russa, i decided it did not make sense to hold two guys responsible for that entire era. and also on that ballot, the year that selig and la russa went in was pudge rodriguez, who i covered for two years with the dallas morning news. and one year his body type was completely different from the second year. and they say don't use the eye
test. don't use hearsay. i wasn't going to, he's arguably the best catcher i've ever seen, but at that point it just got too scrambled. i'm going to go with the results on the field. >> bob ryan, rebuttal. >> well, i leave the blame here is with the hall of fame itself. it is their museum. all they had to do to avoid this entire controversy was post a notice outside the room where the plaques are. and say there was a period in time in baseball when peds were prevalent and many of the people you will see in here were participants during that time. we have instructed our voters to vote on the numbers only. and you, the fan, can feel however you want about those people that are in there. now, concurrent with that, i have said for years that some day i may wake up and say, you know what, we don't know which juiced pitchers pitched to which
juiced batters, let them all in, that day didn't come. >> why not, bob? >> i wrote this in "the globe," it is a matter of having to look yourself in the mirror and are you comfortable letting these known cheaters and arrogant in one case cheater and when other people weren't. and i just couldn't do it. and i heard all the arguments about they were hall of famers before they allegedly starting doing it, yes, i know all that, and they are two of the greatest players of all time, i know that, very well, but it is just a matter of how you feel about yourself as a voter. i couldn't do it. >> susan? >> the problem is the character class, which is on the ballot that the hall of fame voters are given. in every way, shape and form, it is spelled out, you must consider character. what does that mean? we know there are cheaters in the hall of fame. one is celebrated. there are people who have, you know, been involved with
domestic violence, segregationists, miss misogynis. there is a tangle that we're dealing with now, they left it up to the writers to sort it out. that shouldn't be our job. we have got to -- a large membership with a lot of opinions, and the bar for entrance is high. it is 75% of the vote you have to get. >> is it just character, though, or the possibility that whatever they may have taken really did enhance the careers. i think there is no doubt that steroids, absolutely, and what terrible role models. they cheated, for me, you don't have a sport when you have cheaters. it is not a level playing field. however, if the hall of fame wants to make a player ineligible for their ballot, they can do that. a la pete rose. anyone on that ballot is eligible and probably we don't
know who did and don't know who didn't. so two guys, no, that's not a big enough sample size. >> bob what about the argument, there were so many people doing it, how can we be sure who was and who wasn't? >> we don't know for sure. we have more evidence than some people and a lot more than we do on others. go read the book of the brothers, go listen to people who talked about clemens and know what he did. we know a lot more about some people than others. as i said to you earlier, john, we do not know all for sure how many juiced pitchers, pitched to juiced batters. we do not know that. i understand that. it is -- i hate this, this has taken all the fun out of being a voter. this this only be about baseball and once again, i put the blame on the hall. all they have to do is tell us vote on the numbers, period. and then we will be comfortable. >> i will say, if bud selig is in, boy, that is the tough pill
to swallow. se susan, bob, a terrific discussion. the most important thing that happened in the hall of fame, which is that david ortiz, big papi, is in. i did sleep in this shirt last night. smells like victory. >> glory. it smells like glory, right? >> glory. cnn's coverage continues right now. very good wednesday morning to you. i'm jim sciutto. >> i'm bianna golodryga. we're following two major stories this hour. first, a cnn exclusive. the justice department is now investigating fake electoral college certifications that falsely declared former president trump the winner of seven swing states that he lost in 2020. the boeigus certificates were st by top officials representing the republican party in each