tv New Day With John Berman and Brianna Keilar CNN April 5, 2022 4:00am-5:00am PDT
even this maternity hospital was damaged in a mortar strike. now the basement has been turned into a shelter and delivery room, if necessary. birth, life continues. we met elina 30 minutes after she delivered this baby. how are you feeling? >> not well. she's well, too. my first daughter. >> your first daughter? >> yeah. >> your first child? >> yeah. >> as we're leaving, she tells us i love my country, i love my daughter, my family, my husband. and in the delirium of new motherhood she says, everything will be great for us. christiane amanpour, cnn, kharkiv. ♪ >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. good morning to viewers in the united states and around the world, it's tuesday, april 5th. i'm brianna keilar in lviv, ukraine, with john berman in new york. we may only be scratching the surface of russia's atrocities
in ukraine with what we now know. other towns and cities may be worse than what we have seen in bucha, we are being told. a kyiv suburb that russian forces turned into a killing field before leaving. the world left reeling by the unimaginable brutality there. we do want to warn you that the images you're about to see are disturbing. a cnn team witnessed the removal of five bodies from a basement in bucha. they were in an advanced stage of decomposition, found in an area that had been held by the russian military. a ukrainian official says they were tortured and executed. the death toll in bucha alone is believed to be well over 300. and the deputy prime minister of ukraine told me that casualties could be even worse there than in other cities. >> translator: also fully o occupied for a while and we had no access. we could not see what was happening there. therefore we are inviting journalists, criminal experts and anybody with relevant
experience to come and witness what we will discover because we know that the animals in military uniform, there's no other way to call them, were torturing women and children. yes, because there are witness accounts. we know that women were raped and civilians were killed just for walking in the street or hiding in the basement. thousands of such people have been tortured and killed. this morning, ukrainian president zelenskyy will speak to the united nations security council on which, of course, russia is a permanent member. breaking overnight, the russians are on the attack in eastern ukraine. in the donbas region, over here. a ukrainian official tells cnn the situation there is difficult with heavy bombardment. i can push in and give you a closer look where the fighting seems to be getting very fierce right now. ambulances and rescue teams unable to reach some districts
where civilians we are told are now being buried in their yards. this just in to cnn, civilian ship in the port of mariupol in southern ukraine, that's right here, we're told that that civilian ship is on fire and sinking after being hit by russian troops, according to ukraine's interior ministry. the ship is flying a flag from the dominican republic. new overnight, evacuation convoy of seven buses heading to mariupol has been blocked and turned back by russian troops. this has happened time and time again. it will be news when those buses are actually allowed in. them being blocked is a daily occurrence. there are 100,000 people at this point trapped in mariupol. we want to bring you back, though, near the capital right now. that's where our frederik pleitgen and his team have been doing phenomenal reporting. we understand that his team has now made it to the town of makriv, west of the capital. let's go to frederik pleitgen on
the ground. what are you seeing? >> reporter: hi there, john. we have been talking so much about the fact that the ukrainians as they take some of these towns back and get back into them that they're finding a lot of dead bodies. we referred to some of it before, some of the bodies unfortunately that were found in bucha yesterday. we came here and the folks immediately said we need to go here to the outskirts of it because actually what's going on here right now is unfortunately more of the same. i'm sorry to have to show you this, there's a body collection team that they brought us to. they found a body here someone apparently riding his bicycle here when he was gunned down. the ukrainians say he was gunned down by russian forces. obviously for us it's very difficult to tell. but the teams here are doing something very similar than what -- as what we have seen in bucha as well. and that they're going around, they're getting called to places. now that the ukrainians are back in control of this area and being called to pick up the dead. they say they already today picked up 15 dead bodies. as you can see in the car there, there are several of those sacks which are unfortunately also
filled with corpses, as this team moves along and they also say that they've already gotten a call to go into the next place. so these grim things that we're witnessing and that we have been witnessing over the past couple days unfortunately they continue. you guys were saying that i think it was volodymyr zelenskyy was saying there's simply places they don't have information yet. you were talking the town down the road, that's where we're going again. makariv, this group of body collectors will go to the next place as it's slowly becoming more and more clear just how many civilians have come to harm in all of this. obviously we're still at the very early stages. some of these places have only been taken back a couple days ago, but it is already clear that a lot more civilians were killed, were wounded, were injured during the russian occupation than many people would have thought, guys. >> what are people telling you there, fred? i know that a lot of people that evacuated, but some stayed
behind. and they witnessed all of this. i wonder what they're saying, especially since they've been going through this for well over a month and we're just learning act it. >> reporter: yeah, you're absolutely right. a lot of them have been going through this well over a month and a lot of them were extremely afraid as all of this was going on. this particular place saw pretty heavy battles this area in makariv. the russians occupied the town down the road and essentially this road which leads further into the actually town of makariv, that's where a lot of heavy fighting took place. a lot of destroyed buildings there and where the ukrainians stopped the advance, at least in this area, of the russian military. there's a lot of russian destroyed military vehicles there as well. but the people that we speak to in this town and in other towns, they say that the fighting was absolutely brutal. and that obviously a lot of them also say that the russians were really loose with their firearms. it was extremely dangerous for the civilians who were -- stayed
in this area. obviously also very difficult for them, you know, to get the things that they needed. to get things like food, to get things like water. on the one hand because those products were almost impossible to get, but also on the other hand going out of your house was something that was extremely dangerous. and especially here in makariv, there was some extremely heavy fighting, especially towards the end of the russian occupation as the ukrainian forces were pulling back, as ukrainian forces were moving in and the russians were obviously trying to stop them and hold that ground and further advance. this was really one of those places that saw a lot of really heavy fighting and, of course; also a lot of casualties as well. >> to that end, fred, talking about the heavy fighting it's hard for me to process seeing you on the streets of makariv right now just as it was to see you on the streets of bucha yesterday, given the battles that were being waged there, given the ferocity of the fighting. is the war gone completely now from makariv and bucha?
any shelling, any attacks from the russians at all? >> reporter: yeah no. there's nothing and no russian forces here anymore. i have to say, you really hit the nail on the head there, john. it is remarkable because just a couple of days ago we were hunkered down in kyiv and hearing the shelling and seeing rockets flying and seeing large plumes of smoke just outside the capitol in bucha, seeing it in irpin, for instance, but also around this area as well. then you had a sort of big bang before the russians left, where they seemed to be firing all the artillery shells that they had left maybe to cover, the fact that they were retreating. but it is really remarkable to see. i think one of the things that is also becoming clear is that the russians absolutely got beat here. every single town that we have been going through, whether it's here or around this area or around bucha has a lot of destroyed russian armor. we can tell that it's russian armor because it has the symbol v on it what the russians painted on their vehicles when
they invaded this part of ukraine so the ukrainians certainly took out a lot of russian tanks, a lot of russian armored vehicles a lot of russian trucks. you see very little in the way of ukrainian material that was damaged. there was a little bit that we saw yesterday in bucha being taken away, but it certainly seems as though the russians took seriously heavy losses and that's why they decided to move out. of course the russians or government is trying to sell that as a retreat that had always been planned. the fact that they wanted to weaken the ukrainian military here to then focus on the east. but if that was their plan, then they certainly have absolutely no regard for their own soldiers. i can say with certainty that many, many of them were killed in these battles and many of them were down right incinerated inside their vehicles from what we saw with some of these burnt out carcasses of vehicles that we're seeing, guys. >> frederik pleitgen on the ground in makariv. we'll let you and your team do more reporting but we would love to come back and check back in with you shortly. thank you. let's bring in cnn's phil
black now here with me in lviv. here shortly we're going to be seeing president zelenskyy addressing the u.n. we have seen him address them before and other countries as well, but i suspect this is going to be a different message he's delivering. >> i think that's right, brianna, a more heartfelt message, emotive. he is going to go there and argue that the world needs to be tougher still in its response to russia based upon everything that we have seen in the last few days, based upon the things that he saw himself when he visited bucha yesterday. the russians are going to bring their own argument. they say their own evidence, which shows that all we have seen, all we have heard, this gruesome detail that all of this is part of some complex conspiracy, misinformation campaign or in their words an anti-russian campaign perpetrated by the west and ukraine. but as i say, zelenskyy was there himself yesterday. and when he was there on the
ground having seen what -- some of what russia left behind, he says he believes diplomacy with russia will be harder. take a look. >> translator: the longer the russian federation delays the meetings, the worse it will be for them and for this war. everyday when our troops are liberating occupied territories, you can see what is happening here. it's very difficult to negotiate when you see what they have done here. everyday we find people in burials strangled, tortured in their basements. i think if they have any brains left, they should think faster. >> so president zelenskyy clearly feeling what he is seeing, i think, there. it was only a week ago some ukrainian officials were talking about progress in the diplomacy, breakthroughs on key points. the possibility in the near future of zelenskyy and putin getting together for a face to face meeting to hash out the final sticking points. today, zelenskyy has said that is not looking likely at all
unless russia were to accept full responsibility for its war crimes. and that's not likely either. >> how do you shake the hand of someone who has that much blood of your people on it? it's just impossible to imagine. phil, thank you so much. really appreciate it. berman? a cnn crew reporting near the city of mykolaiv narrowly escaped incoming russian artillery fire after stopping to talk to some ukrainian soldiers. one of the crews two vehicles badly damaged but they did imagine to make it to safety. cnn's ben wedeman part of that team. and he joins me now thankfully safely from mykolaiv, ben. why don't you walk us through exactly what happened. >> reporter: we were going forward, john, to an area where we knew that there was some fighting. we weren't going to go directly there. we were doing what we normally do under these circumstances, as you move forward you stop, you talk to people to gather as much
intelligence as possible. what we found out was that the russians were not far away. this is an area where there's been a fair amount of outgoing as well as in coming artillery. down the road is a town that has been fought over for several days by russian and ukrainian forces. in these vast open spaces the russians seem far away. they're not. down here, john. down here. keep on rolling. you see it over there? we hug the earth. two more artillery rounds. camera man john keeps rolling.
all right. so we have had two in coming rounds responding to artillery that's been firing in the russian directions. those shells came pretty close to us. no one has been injured. the officer tells translator we need to go now. i hope the car is okay. let's go. and so we run with full body armor to the cars.
our other car completely destroyed. crammed into this small car, we approach safer ground. >> we'll take a breather. producer checks the damage to the car. the soldiers we left behind are still out there. we could leave. they can't. and we have spoken to those soldiers since then. told us that there was more artillery bombardment overnight, but they're still okay. john? brianna? >> ben, let me just say i'm so happy to see you right now, to you and your team. i'm so glad you made it out safely. is that a line of combat right now? do the ukrainians feel like they're taking back that ground? or are the russians trying to push back in, ben? is there any way of telling? >> it seems that the line is static, but there is combat on going in a town just south of where we were. the ukrainians have managed to
push them back, but it's questionable because the ukrainians have good defensive weapons they've been provided with, but to really make progress in pushing the russians well beyond artillery range of the city, they need offensive weapons. john? >> ben, i should ask, was there any sense that the russians knew you were there? any sense they knew they were firing on media? >> reporter: we have been asking ourselves those questions for quite some time. it was at a cross roads, so perhaps the russians are bracketing that area. in any event, but when we listened to the outgoing and the impact of that first round, it doesn't seem like they were very far away. so perhaps, whether via drone or nearby outposts, they knew we were there. so, we don't know, but it was too close for comfort. >> too close indeed. look, ben, i know you've been
through a lot in your career and been in a lot of war zones, you never get used to something like that, the situation you and your team just went through. so thank you for everything you're doing. we appreciate you. and we're so glad you're safe today. thanks. so up until this point in this conflict, since the russian invasion began, ukraine has been able to repel a much larger russian force in some places, reclaiming some land they lost in the past couple months. now the white house says russia is shifting strategy to hold on to gains in southern and mostly eastern ukraine. >> at this juncture, we believe that russia is revising its war aims. russia is repositioning its forces to concentrate its offensive operations in eastern and parts of southern ukraine, rather than target most of the territory. all indications are that russia will seek to surround and overwhelm ukrainian forces in
eastern ukraine. the next stage of this conflict may very well be protracted. >> joining us now cnn military analyst and former nato supreme allied commander generally wesley clark. great to have you here, general. we're talking akts this region largely, the far east of ukraine that includes the donbas region there. i'm going to push in so i can show people exactly what we're talking about. what do the russians want out of this? >> so the russians want to move their forces from here, seize this key area of dnipro. and if they can breakthrough and bring forces here, breakthrough this way, lock this up and encircle the ukrainian forces, that are defending, these ukrainian forces have done a good job. they've held the russian forces that are in this area pretty much static. but we see the main force coming in from the north to try to encircle them. this is the typical strategy on the eastern front. you go behind. you encircle.
you force your enemy to fight in 360 degree directions until they're exhausted. then you close in. >> there's been a war being waged here for eight years. so people know there have been lines here where there's been fighting back and forth ever since russia annexed crimea. so this is a well-worn battle front. we all know, we think, what the russians are going to try to do. so what can the ukrainians do to prevent this? >> so the ukrainians first of all they have trench lines here. they have three lines. they're tough to get through. and they've held these lines pretty well. but what they have got to do, is they've got to either with the forces here working this way or the forces coming through here, they've got to blunt these offensives and hold this area open. this is a force on force battle. this is maneuver warfare. this is not about guys hiding in houses or behind trees and firing javelin missiles. what they need is they need tanks. they need mobile artillery and
they need air support. >> tanks. >> this is real battle. this is war we haven't fought since we invaded iraq really. >> t 72 jim sciutto is reporting these russian-era tanks, soviet tanks, some in nato hands. the u.s. is trying to get them to the ukrainians. will they help? >> absolutely. and the pols have hundreds of these tanks. now what kind of condition they're in, how modern they are? do they have night vision capacity and so forth, have they been upgraded? then if the pols and others give up their tanks, are they back filled by what are old m1's? what's your production rate. what about the ammunition. it's not just tanks, john. really the major killer is the artillery. what you need for every tank, you need four or five mobile artillery pieces. those mobile artillery pieces look like tanks and often called tanks but they're firing hundreds of rounds per day. so you have a huge logistics train behind you with lots of trucks going back and forth.
>> logistics train that has to come across the country in order to help the ukrainians. general wesley clark, you'll come back in a little bit. thank you for being here and helping us understand all this. this morning, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy set to address the u.n. security council as he warns the atrocities taking place in cities other than bucha might be worse. we'll bring you that speech live. breaking news, getting news that a nitric acid tank has been hit by russian forces in eastern ukraine causing a cloud of toxic smoke to cover the area. residents now being advised to stay inside. we have new details on that ahead. ♪ (thank you, have a nice day.) ♪ (trumpet solo) ♪ (bell dings) (pages slilipping) ♪ ♪ ♪ (trumpet solo) ♪ ♪ ♪ (typing) (bell dings) ♪ ♪ (cheering ♪ ♪ (typing)
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a war crime trial. this guy is brutal. and what's happening in bucha is outrageous. >> president biden joining the growing list of world leaders who are calling for president vladimir putin to be held accountable for atrocities committed by the russian military in ukrainian. but will the russian leader ever face the consequences of committing war crimes? joining me now is james carr professor of international criminal law at washington university in st. louis. she also has served as a special adviser on crimes against humanity for international criminal court since 2012. thank you so much. you are witnessing what we are seeing, these pictures coming out of bucha, as reporters move on to makariv, they're on their way to other cities as well. it just seems like more of the same. what are you hearing about these atrocities? >> thank you so much for having me on. these atrocities, this video
footage, the photographs we're seeing are absolutely shocking actually. >> they're incredibly shocking. i wonder at this point what is the accountability? >> well, so as you know, brianna, the international criminal court has jurisdiction over this situation. the prosecutor has already announced that he is opening an investigation and 41 states actually referred the case to the icc so that he can begin his important work immediately. he's dispatched an advanced team to the region and investigators are collecting information. the government of ukraine sis obviously collecting information as well as other organizations and governments essentially around the world. so a lot of evidence is coming in right now. and the evidence that we're seeing is very disturbing. >> it seems like the russian military, the russian government
is never really held to account even when things are investigating, even when it's very clear they have happened. they don't extradite people, protecting themselves, insulating themselves. why is the reason to believe there will be accountability here? >> well, that's a good point that there has been a pattern and the prosecutor has said this that we have seen in georgia, we have seen it in syria, we have seen it in other situations as well. and here the pattern and practice has gotten to a level combined with what an act of aggression against a sovereign state. i think the international community has a new resolve. the investigation is open. i think the prosecutor is determined to act quickly. i think we see political will. so the big difference here, brianna, is in other situations you could compile the evidence but you couldn't necessarily get the political will to go guard. remember the icc itself was
under sanctions from the trump administration for two years. and so it was very, very difficult to get this kind of unity that we now have, that these crimes are the worst crimes we know to humanity as a whole and that there is an absolute mandate to go forward and make sure that they are investigated and prosecuted. >> what happens to putin personally, nothing? >> well, it's complicated. he is the head of state. he is a sovereign in his own state. we've seen in other situations like the conflict in the former yugoslavia, he was indicted. he wasn't indicted at the very beginning of the war. he was indicted actually many years into the war. and ultimately once the indictment happened it wasn't that nato marched in to belgrade and captured the former president, it was that his own people actually arrested him and held him. and ultimately he was turned
over to the yugoslavia tribunal for trial. we have seen the same pattern with omar al-bashir of sudan who fought an arrest warrant from the international criminal court for many, many years but ultimately was brought down inside sudan and arrested by his own population. what we have seen is that the atrocity crimes what we call war crimes, crime against humanity and genocide are almost always accompanied by financial crimes, by corruption, by other crimes that ironically sometimes are more problematic for the state in which they're occurring. and so, president putin there will be a try anogulation obviously of international action and at some point probably action within the russian federation itself. and he will face justice. but it takes patience. it takes perseverance. and it's really kind of an all hands on deck moment right now. >> leila sadat, appreciate your insight.
thank you so much. >> thank you so much. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy -- yes, thank you. and our correspondence on the ground are going to keep that up, of course. president zelenskyy now casting doubt on the possibility of meeting with vladimir putin after accusing russia of genocide. he toured bucha yesterday where negotiations could be going from here. and more on our breaking news, people in eastern ukraine being told to stay inside right now after a russian strike on a tank of nitric acid. stand by for that.
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the u.s. ambassador to the united nations is calling for russia's removal from the human rights council and has been on a tour of moldova, visiting refugees who have endured weeks of russian attacks. cnn's bianna golodryga went on that trip to moldova, where you were born. >> right. >> and joins us now. >> reporter: it was surreal. i haven't been back in 35 years. i was asked to accompany the secretary and the ambassador. and gladly went, of course. and this was a mission where she wanted to just express u.s. sympathy and solidarity with this country, a poor, neutral country, right, not under nato, right? and the security there. and also the poorest country in europe. so the u.s. was going to pledge about 50 million dollars in their continued effort to help these ukrainians coming in, so many of them have families there but they clearly inupdated this besieged country of 2.5 million countries. we visited moldova and neighboring romania, obviously a
member of nato still concerned about russia's aggression and all was overshadowed by the horrible scenes out of bucha. >> we're going to seek russia's suspension from the u.n. human rights council. >> linda thomas greenfield, the u.s. ambassador to the u.n. addressing the horrifying images out of bucha. you think you're going to get the two thirds needed? >> i know we're going to get it. >> sergey lavrov, foreign secretary of russia, dmitry peskov have both call what had the u.s. and what the world has seen as lies. how do you expect to respond to your counterpart at the u.n. who will likely say the same? >> well, he's said that time and time again when we have exposed their actions. we will continue to expose them for the liars that they are. they told us that we were seeing actors, dead bodies acting. so, i expect that i will hear that in the security council. no one will believe them.
and we will continue to isolate and expose them in the security council and around the world. >> reporter: do you expect that china will believe them? >> i can't speak for the chinese. i would hope that the chinese will see what we're seeing and also join us in condemning these horrific actions. hi, how are you? >> reporter: six weeks into russia's war in ukraine, cnn accompanied thomas greenfield as she toured refugee sites in romania and moldova, just over a million ukrainians have flooded into these countries to the west. 90% of them women and children. what made you decide to come to moldova? >> you know, i have been watching the news reports of refugees crossing borders into poland and as i looked at the map, moldova is the smallest country. it's the poorest country. and per capita it's taking the most refugees. so, i felt it was important to
come here to thank them. >> nearly 400,000 refugees have crossed moldova's border with ukraine since the war began and 120,000 of those remain in the country of only about 2.5 million people. each one of them with a story, a history, a life abruptly uprooted and left behind. >> what messages you want me to carry back to -- >> reporter: like this 19-year-old. she and her mother left their home in mick lie yaef nearly one month ago. leaving behind boyfriend and grandmother. >> it's been a month, what's it been like for you? >> it's been so challenging because my first emotions i didn't really have them because everything was so fast and quickly i couldn't really understand myself. but then i thought that maybe i shouldn't have left. shouldn't have left. >> reporter: why? >> because i don't have any children.
and i'm young. and i can help more. i could have helped more if i stayed in ukraine. >> reporter: we also met 74-year-old grandmother valentina from the nearby port city of odesa. she left behind her daughter and grandson who refused to leave the country. she worries about the recent russian bombing in odesa, but also says that she's so appreciative of how moldova has opened its borders and arms to people like her. what moldova doesn't have to offer is much financial assistance. which is one of the reasons for the ambassador's visit. >> we will be announcing an additional $50 million in support to moldova for their efforts supporting refugees here. >> reporter: but moldova needs more than just financial support. what more can the u.s. do and is willing to do to support this country, not just financially but its own security? >> you know, i will be meeting with the president and the prime
minister later today. and that will be part of the discussion i will have with them in terms of what else can we do to give you more confidence about your security, to address the problems that you might foresee in the future. and i will take that back to washington and share it with other cabinet officials to see how we can better support them. >> reporter: moldova's prime minister acknowledged russia's presence along the break away region, but says that for now their intelligence shows no signs of additional russian troop buildup. thomas greenfield's final stop was in romania where some 600,000 ukrainian refugees have come through the main train station in the city's capital since russia's invasion. unlike moldova, romania is a member of nato and thus is protected by the organization's article 5 charter.
still, signs of concern and vulnerability are becoming increasingly evident. starting this month i just read that here in romania, those under the age of 40 will be given io dine pills in anticipation, romania, a member of the eu, what does that tell you about the trepidation and fears among european allies? >> it just tells you how much fear people have and what they know putin is capable of. and so that's why we have to stay unified in our efforts to stop him from going any further. >> and john, as you mentioned earlier, president zelenskyy will be addressing the u.n. security council later this morning. one thing of note, though, russia is a permanent member, right? and so, we're not expecting russia to acknowledge any of the atrocities that we see with our own eyes, but i would expect to see a very emotional and defiant president zelenskyy as we have seen. just to go back to that romanian story of people being given io
dine pills. i met a woman, a reporter who just opened her purse and showed me her pills in her bag. this is the world they're dealing with right now. >> what a world it is. bianna golodryga, also special you got to go back to the country you were born in with the u.s. ambassador. thank you for that report. >> thank you. the pentagon issuing a very specific and candid warning about where vladimir putin is heading next and how long this war could last. plus, why putin may actually be winning the propaganda war inside russia. ♪
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partner of washington correspondent of puck. julia, i'm so excited you're here because i was reading your reporting along with that of russian journalist last week. i actually had a chance to speak with her. and i think it paints a different picture than americans might think of what's happening inside russia, or at least hope what's happening inside russia. we like to think the russians must understand this is an unjust war. that's not what's happening at that point, is it, julia? >> no, it's not. and the reason for it is on one hand quite simple, this is what happens when you monopolize -- when the russian government monopolizes the entire media space. there is no more independent journalism in russia. there was very little left before the war, now there is basically none. and so this caps off 22 years of vladimir putin and his government taking over the media directly or pushing any media that disagrees with him to the
margins where fewer and fewer people can see it. and normal people, if you just -- if this is all you're hearing and you have no countermessaging, it's very natural to start to believe it, especially if it's happening for years and years and >> one of the things we're seeing is the approval rating is up in the polls. people think russia is on the right track. those numbers going up as well. how else is it manifesting itself among the russian people right now? >> well, it is hard to trust the polls, because we saw a similar effect in 2014, when the situation was significantly freer, but at the time felt terrifying to a lot of russians who disagreed with russia's invasion of ukraine then and the annexation of crimea. what happened according to a lot of pollsters is people who disagreed with the government's position would just duck out of participating in polls. polls have problems here in the
states as well, and we have a pretty fair or pretty open society. maybe not as fair as we would like. but what they said was people who disagree would just not answer the phone or say i don't want to participate, where as people who did agree who were very much on board with what the government was doyneing was hap to share their enthusiasm with pollsters. it skewed the numbers a bit. we're seeing that effect now as well as a rallying around the flag in war time, plus the fact that sanctions often have this effect of, you know, when outsiders destroy your economy, people tend to blame the outsiders and not the actions of the government that brought the punishment to begin with. >> julia, you say at the beginning of the conflict -- i didn't mean to interrupt -- but at the beginning of the conflict, there were anti-war protests in russia that maybe should have rattled putin a little bit. but you suggest now probably what he fears most is pro war
demonstrators. why? >> to be clear, there is still anti-war protesters going out in the streets and over 15,000 russians have been arrested, which is very brave, given the extreme punishments they're facing. but the reason people say that putin might be worried about pro war protests is because he has been so successful in brainwashing and propagandizing to his people. he has been telling them for months that the goal of russia is to dismember ukraine, to change its government, to win back land to russia, to make it cease existing in the form it existed before the war. and now that it seems like russia may be dropping some of its demands, we'll see if they really are, but there were hints of it at last week's negotiations, there were huge outcry including among people who were very public, very loyal, very important, including the head of chechnya, the head of russia today, saying publicly
that we shouldn't stop until total victory. this is unacceptable, that if we're fighting nazis, we have to go all the way. >> it is something to behold at this point. julia ioffe, so glad to have you on, to help us understand what is happening inside of russia. we'll speak to you again soon. all right, the breaking news, a nitric acid tank hit by russian forces in eastern ukraine, residents being advised it stay inside. plus, torture rooms, executions, kidnapping, what villagers of the southern city of mykolaiv are saying about the russian occupation of that city. carvana's had a lot of firsts. 100 percent online car buying, car vendinding machines, and now putting you in control of your financing. atat carvana, get personalized terms, browse for cars that fit your budget, then customize your downpayment and monthly payment. and these aren't mamade up numbers, it's what t you'll really pay, right down to the penny. wheather you're shopping or just looking, it only takes a few seconds and it won't affect your credit score. finally, a totally different way to finance your ride
reality check. >> we need to talk about war crimes. that's what president biden accused russia of committing as horrific images of civilians in mass graves and bodies strewn along the streets of bucha come to life. let's be clear, the deliberate targeting of unarmed civilians is a war crime by any definition. the evidence being collected could one day lead to a war crimes trial at the hague for vladimir putin and his commanders. but true to form, the kremlin is trying to say it is all fabricated, a false flag operation. satellite images prove otherwise. truth is always a target in russia's way of war. now, some people think that prosecuting war crimes is like giving out tickets at the indy 500 as captain willard says in apocalypse now. the rules of war exist for a reason, they have been hard won and it might be surprise you to learn they were handed down to us by none other than this guy, abraham lincoln. it is true. he issued first modern rules of war known as general orders 100 in the spring of 1863, as the
civil war was turning to its bloodiest chapter. the drafting was done by a prussian immigrant law professor, francis lieber, who believed that warring soldiers do not cease to be moral beings, responsible to one another and to god. his rules propose protections for prisoners and unarmed civilians, prohibiting the wanton destruction of whole districts, prohibiting the use of poison, rape, and assassination, calling them war crimes. they understood without a battlefield code of conduct healing the wounds of war would be even more difficult. these rules endured to inform the geneva conventions and the nuremberg trials, imposing law on the lawless, and evidence presented the world aiming to make denial of war crimes more difficult for the future. now those denials are being pushed by putin in a world where many thought a land war in europe was a thing of the past. but this brutal invasion has been a wake-up call. it is a reminder of why the international organizations
established by america and its allies after the second world war are so necessary. it doesn't mean they all work as intended, and here's where it is worth taking a clear-eyed look at the u.n. human rights council. it is an important sounding body, right, given the u.n. charter is dedicated to the defense of human rights. but in their attempt to be inclusive, the council has a record of letting some countries with extensive alleged human rights abuses sit on the council. this includes venezuela, china, cuba, and, you guessed it, russia. now the biden administration is pushing to suspend the kremlin from the human rights council, its participation is just too sick a joke to sustain. some folks will look at this and russia's permanent seat on the security council and say that the united nations itself is hopelessly compromised. that's shortsighted. for all its flaws, the world is far better off with the u.n. than without it. that doesn't mean that america shouldn't look to build additional alliances between democracies or atlantic trading
partners. in this contrast between democracy and autocracy, we need to combine strength of liberal democracies to stand up for the rule of law. because that's what's also been assaulted in putin's invasion of ukraine. this is a live fire test of whether fear and brute force will determine the trajectory of the 21st century. or whether we will insist on the standard that lincoln gave us, daring to live up to the faith that right makes might. and that's your reality check. >> all right, john avlon, thank you so much for that. "new day" continues right now. this is cnn breaking news. >> good morning to viewers in the u.s. and around the world. it is tuesday, april 5th. i'm brianna keilar in lviv, ukraine, with john berman in new york. street by street, town by town, russia's atrocities in ukraine are mounting. the savagery that we havse