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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  April 26, 2022 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT

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tens of thousands of ukrainians being taken to russia against their will. cnn's phil black has some of their stories. >> reporter: the two didn't know each other before the russians came. n now, volodymyr was freed from the russian detention center. for weeks, sasha's family did not know he was still alive. seized and held by russian soldiers in early march. they heard nothing about his safety. volodymyr told them he knows his
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son dmytry was alive in the detention center. he heard dmytry's name everyday. there was comfort in that but not enough to soothe a mother. helena says i don't have haope anymore. they will kill them and no one will find them. dozens of people were abducted near kyiv. most held here in the russian site, the russian forces used as a command post. this is where they were kept? >> yes. >> reporter: the conditions those captured here were forced to endure. a small, dark cold room. people were packed together here and hands bound and eyes taped .
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>> reporter: he said people came and went. some spent weeks here. someone trying to keep track by scratching marks on the walls. all the people who came into this room had only one thing in common. they were civilians. several people who were kept here tell us they would frequently beaten and interrogated for local information. one man says his hands and fingers with cut to bones by russian soldiers because he could not help them. >> does it make any sense to you that they did this? >> nonsense. i don't know what kind of information they could take from these people. >> reporter: this video captures the moment when ukrainian forces attacked the industrial site, driving out the russians. a number of those still locked in the room at that time, that's
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when all remaining captives were able to escape. others including volodymyr had been taken elsewhere. a long road trip belarus ended in russia where he was given this military identification document. it says he resisted the special operation abducted by the russians. he was detained while volunteering with the red cross helping people. volodymyr has returned as part of a prisoner exchange. he says they took goods that could be exchange later like a mobile phone or another commodity. a list of more than 40 names provide pd by the local government, a registered and people from the area who are still missing. he recognized most of the names
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because he deliberately tried to remember as much as possible. he says sooner or later one of us had to be the first to be released and that's why we rye to remember the names of other people to let their relatives know they are alive. volodymyr says there were about 200 ukrainians in detention while he was the. he hopes all would get home quickly so the suffering their families are enduring can end and their healing can begin. phil black, cnn, in the kyiv region. >> kidnapping people as bargaining chips and forced detor deportation or shelling ve evacuees. both history and recent events show this is the way russia has and does. one of the reasons sided by the
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neighbor allies for support of ukraine. notions and more give us a lot to talk about with our analysts, former nato supreme commander wesley clark and general mark. terrible things happen in war on all sides of the conflict. people do terrible things. military that have a respect for law and order and for the rules of engagement do opipunish thei own troops for misbehaving or breaking the law, what do you make of what you have seen of russia's actions on the ground in occupied territories and how does that compare to what an
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army that obeys the rules of war would engage in. >> russian army applied military force. they attack and defend zp protect. the soviet army is always at a strong political component. enforce the obedience -- the commonist party carried into the military, they came into this opposition root out any potential - they're not just taking the territory, they're going in after the populists to find out who may be related to someone related to the ukrainian military. who may be giving information. they want to carve out anybody potentially was just their ok
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p ptheir occupation. this is war crime. this is not soldiers misbehaving. there is nothing to do, let's pick on some ukrainians and cut them up. no, this was a deliberate effort to interrogate and torture to get information and to find people to eliminate so that the russian occupation could not be resisted. >> and general holden, i was in bucha today, at least more than half a dozen people were shot and the bodies left found. the eye witness talked about the russian block that sat there beginning of march until the end of the russian's time there,
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march 30th or 31st, that people would shoot people as they cross the street or rode their bicycles. anybody taking ing the bodies t bury them would get shot as well. in any other army, that would not be tolerated, right? >> we have been talk about this for weeks now, the inhumanity continues to be staggering and jaw-dropping. for those of professional of arms, their requirement of leadership is to control violence. when a navy sends its army to war, it is seeking to achieve a political end state. those morality and ethics involved in that. that's why there is an ethos in the professions of arms. that's why soldiers live by a
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set of values and it is inherit by leaders of those in the organization to ensure violence is controlled and in fact, we talk a lot about that as leaders in the military. our job is to control violence, not to allow people to get out of control. i think i agree with my friend general clark complete l compcompletely. there are no military objectives to be achieved in this. i would contend that it is actually stoking the desires of the ukrainian military and the population to resist this kind of thing. when you read history. when you read some of the most babaric armies in the world, these are the k-inds of things they do and they always lose in
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the end. people understand the value of human life, the value of protecting society and advancing a social system and the russians seem to be doing exactly the opposite of that. >> general clark, do you believe the russians have had the ability to reconstitute their forces and reequip and bring new forces to the fight in the east. i am wondering what you make of the russian offensive so far? >> i think they had difficulty reconstituting. i think soldiers who have been traumatized by that kind of defeat they had north of kyiv is hard to remotivate those soldiers. actual leadership style is we are going to give you good equipment and you go out there and use it and you know how to kill people. they don't really train squads and individual crew level. what they have is, they are well
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educated generals and they are being directed by putin, of course, it didn't looked good artillery. they rely on artillery and mass and fear, if you turn around and look back, you are going to get shot. so i think they're going to have a hard time doing this but i will say this. the ukrainians did suffer losses. we don't know what those losses are. we are seeing some pretty desperate fighting in the early stages of the donbas offensive. there is been a lot of pre premature -- fighting by people in the west don't understand how vicious this battle is going to be with heavy artillery barrages. if the russians able to unscramble their attacks and line up 30 tanks or 90 tanks or
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hundred of tubes of artillery, they'll achieve success. they probably have a 3-1 artillery right now in the number of tanks. we are not seeing a lot about this battle in the western media. the ukrainians are not talking about it. we know it is a desperate for survival. >> it is important to keep in mind, general clark and general hertling, thank you. next more aid to get into ukraine and american diplomats back on the ground here and we'll talk to state department spokesperson ned price. hand, so you should really be focusing on both, and definitely at the same time. sensodyne sensitivity & gum gives us a dual action effect
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the full center has been set up in germany to coordinate shipments. the command post includes from 15 other nations and as well as the need to get war supplies into ukraine as quickly as possible. for more on the administration with all this, we are joined by mj lee. we heard secretary lloyd austin moving quickly to provide ukraine with the military needs they need. what more is the white house saying of their next step? >> there is so much money and aid that's pouring into ukraine from the u.s. the latest announcement comes from secretary blinken and austin announcing $713 million that would go twoowards ukraine and other ally countries. in the big picture that means the u.s. committed around
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$3.7 billion to help ukraine and along with this, we have seen in recent weeks the u.s. increasingly willing to send heavier duty equipment and weapons. we are talking about high prevision drones and this has come as ukrainian officials have been very vocal in saying, we can't receive this help fast enough, that's why we are seeing u.s. and allies are stepping up to send these kinds of heavy duty equipment. >> general millie told jim sciutto of the entire security order is at stake if russia gets away with attacks in ukraine. has there been a shift in tone of a broadening out of the administration? >> we are seeing this shifting and tone, this comes on the hill
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of lloyd austin saying that the u.s. would like to see russia weaken military, it can't repeat what we are seeing happening in ukraine now and other areas of the region. this is quite the contrast from the past when we have seen u.s. officials showing a real reluctant to engage in sorts of who of who's winning and who's losing conversation. i remember i sat in a white house briefing not long ago where kate bettingfield was asked many times, is ukraine winning and could ukraine win? she was careful not to engage in that narrative and engage in the question of who's winning this war. now, the war as it has been more protracted and as we have seen just the atrocities, images of horrific casualties we are seeing from ukraine, there is a
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realization and a growing recognition that it is so important to try to stop vladimir putin but also to make sure that the country is weaken including military so that this kind of thing can't be repeated in the future, anderson. >> mj lee, appreciate it. more now on all of this, i spoke with state department spokesperson ned price. >> thank you for joining us. when general millie says nothing less than the international orders at stake, defense secretary austin says he wants russia to eweaken to the point they can't launch this again. has the u.s. view a satisfactory outcome? >> long before this invasion began, we started to prepare and
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provide our ukrainian partners with security assistance. that's why we start to galvanize and organize the world to opposing. this conflict is about russia's decision to attack ukraine. the issues are everyn larger th that. it is about the principle that a large country can't attack a small country. a country can't dictates the aspirations of any other countries around the world. the chairman made that statement, he's absolutely right, if we don't stand up to what the russians are trying to do, we will undermine that international system and order, not only russia or ukraine but the world is over. >> you heard the colnflict is used against a proxy war, what
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is the biden administration say to that? is that rattling in response to the meeting today? >> i think what we seeing today is the russians engaged in that propaganda in this bluster, certainly is a means by which to distract from the fact that they are loseing the war and they lot the battle of kyiv and to distract from the fact that their economy and financial system is in ruins and to distract that president is a praia and russia is more isolated than it ever had been. we think the type of propaganda and the type of bluster that we are hearing is deeply responsible. we are watching closely and not only we are listening closely to what the russians say but we are watching closely to see what they do. it is what we care most about. >> do we have a sense of what's
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going on more moldova? there was an explosion there, was that false flag operation? are you concern of what it may mean? >> we are aware of a series of explosions yesterday. we don't have all the facts. we are works closely with our moldova partners and others to discern exactly what happened. this is a region that has the potential to escalate tensions even further. we have encouraged all sides not to do anything to in flame this situation. we sent a strong message to our moldova partners that the united states stand with them and we stand behind the solvvereignty d our integrity. we met with the moldovan president and her team, reinforcing the fact that the united states stand with them.
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so we are doing everything we can to send a very clear signal not only to moldova but to anyone else in the region who would seek to threaten and intimidate and upset this balance. >> diplomats returning to ukraine today, specifically to lviv, when do the embassy here in kyiv reopen? >> the short answer is as soon as we possibly can. secretary blinken told president zelenskyy that our diplomats will be back to ukraine. that did take place today. we had a small team go across the border to kconduct business in lviv, ukraine. it is our goal to have that team back in our embassy in kyiv. we look forward to reopening our embassy to using it as a
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platform to engage with our ukrainian partners and ukrainian people. >> ned price, appreciate your time. thanks. >> thanks anderson. just ahead, russia makes another promise of letting civilians leaving peacefully. we'll take a look at the battle of a steel plant there. vladimir putin in a much desired history. details ahead. not all plastic is the same. we're carefully designing our bottles to be 100% recyclable, including the caps. they're collected and separated from other plastics, so they can be turned back into material that we use to make new bottles. that completes the circle and reduces plastic waste. please help us get every bottle back. before discovering nexium 24hr to treat her frequent heartburn... claire could only imagine enjoying chocolate cake. now, she can have her cake and eat it too. nexium 24hr stops acid
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. the forces shelling the city and firing on the plant. cnn's alex marquardt has the latest. >> reporter: the steel plant operating on this site for nearly a century covering four square miles and ten square kilometers right on the sea. it is a towering complex that employs 10,000 people with tunnels and pipes built to w
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withstand a nuclear blast. it is now a fortress for ukrainian fighters and civilians there defending. >> as far as we know 1,000 sifrl y civilians are still at the plant. this video shows how difficult a close quarter fight would be in this huge plant. putin has ordered his military to abandon the plan to take the facility and telling defense minister to seal it off so tightly that a fly can't pass through. >> this is a statement of convenience by president putin, his forces are able to go in and take all of mariupol without suffering worse casualties or more damage to the force.
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>> reporter: ukrainian forces inside said there are hundreds of wounded soldiers and si civilians. they have pleaded with the international community to find a way out. sheltering below ground with no natural light and no news. the children here are crying all the time. they have not seen daylight for weeks. the ceo that owns the plant said the under grown shelter can hold 4,000 people have been stocked with two or three weeks of food and water. the war started two months ago. >> reporter: the russians did not allow us to do this humanitarian convoy into the city. the prospect of mariupol looked
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grim. a long held goal. >> even if mariupol falls, it does not mean russia will cold it. ukrainians are getting better and better equip, they'll continue fighting. cnn, washington. >> for specific of the war and russia's war crime, we have a journalist for president zelenskyy. miss mandel, vladimir putin says russian ukraine managed to achieve serious breakthrough during negotiations back in istanbul. the situation changed in his words following the allegations against russia's war crimes in bucha. does that make any sense to you? >> well, thank you for having me. actually, everything that is said from the russian's side
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never made any sense to me. it is difficult to negotiate with russia because russia behaves as a terrorist state and they are changing their position all the time. it is really difficult to come up to some conclusion. >> was there progress in istanbul? i don't understand how he says that bucha would have changed any kinds of situations. he's claiming what happened to bucha did not happen in bucha and he's sticking to the russian lie that this was all made up. >> this is ridiculous. russians involved in fake news creation, of course they can recognize the fact that russian army, state-controlled propaganda turned into animals
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that made all these atrocities to unarmed civilians who were living peaceful lives. we understand many ambassadors and many mediators tried to influence putin and ambigutierrs the only one right to reach him, explaining why it is important for ukraine and russia and all the world to stop this brutal invasion. ukraine does not see much progress in negotiations these days. russia keeps demanding more and more. >> how important was the meeting between president zelenskyy with the secretary of state and this meeting of military leaders from nato and elsewhere today? >> absolutely. this meeting was important not only for -- it was important for every ukrainian here.
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on sunday when the secretary of state and secretary of defense came to ukraine, there were shellings not only in the east and south of ukraine but also in the east and central of ukraine. still they went through ukraine and kyiv. at that moment russia hit five strain stations in ukraine, maybe trying to threaten american officials. that shows that american officials came to ukraine when the war actually was ongoing and they were risking a lot and risking their lives to come here that meant a lot. >> kherson is your hometown. the pro russian forces are struggling to hold a referendum there but succeeded in changing the regional government. i am wondering what you are hearing from people in the city about all that? >> i am in charge of the
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citizens and my family from kherson region. i have a lot of relatives there. this is one of the most heartbreaking things that's happening to me. russia installed their regime and violation of human rights and it is carried there and this atmosphere of fear. people can be damaged and killed and raped and nobody can stand there. people don't want russia there. my father is celebrating his 61st birthday today and he said -- he's not leaving the land and he's waiting for ukrainian army to release kherson. >> i understand your fiance is joining the fight in ukraine. how is he doing?
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>> my fiance was in the south. there were heavy fighting and shelling and it was getting terrible messages from him. it was very difficult to understand the connection some where they're in the shelling and we don't know if he's going to come back and when he's going to come back. this is even bad to complain because i understand this is the faith of ukrainians now to fight and i am proud that he made that decision. >> miss mendel, i appreciate your time tonight. >> thank you, anderson. january 6 exclusives ahead. some loyalists and what the former president saying running up to the election.
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surprising text messages from the days after trump lost the to 2020 election. cnn's brian nobles with the exclusives. >> reporter: congressman scott perry has been steadfast in pushing the big lie of the 2020 election was stolen. >> it is all going to come down to the skeystone state. >> a new batch of evidence, he enrolled every turn in scheming
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to reverse or delay the certification of the 2020 election. on november 12th, five days after the election was called for joe biden, perry texted mark meadows. dni needs to task nsa to seize and look for international comms related to dominion and looking into false conspiracy of voting machines being hacked by the chinese. perry claimed the quote "britt" were behind this. he texted meadows, dni needs to be tasked to audit their overseas accounts at the cia and their national environment. perry insisted that meadows,
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investigate voter fraud claims. perry was the one introduced clark to trump. perry texted mark, "you should call jeff, i just got off the phone with him and he explained why the principle departuty won work especially with the fbi. meadows responded, "i got it, let me work on the deputy position." perry replied, "just sent you something on signal." that's why they asked perry to appear before the committee, something he refused to do. meadows handed over these texts and more than 2,000 have been obtained by cnn. and we went in search of scott
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perry today to get an explanation of what he was looking for from mark bmeadows, his staff ignore all of our requests so you found him today at the capitol asked him to respond and all he would say to me is "heck no," no explanation for the effort he made trying to prevent the certification of the 2020 election. anderson. >> yeah, he plans to communicate on signals now. shanghai has been on a strict covid lockdown with many residents blocked from leaving their home. the city is trying to rush to contain a new omicron outbreak. we'll have the latest on that, next.
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nearly 20 million residents after a total of 80 cases had been reported since friday. the new covid outbreak is sparking fears of a lockdown in beijing as shanghai is a month into their strict lockdown after an outbreak spiralled into tens of thousands of cases. joining me now in shanghai, cnn correspondent david culver. david, describe what's happening in shanghai. >> it is a real mess right now, anderson. you have tensions rising, fatigue and frustration also going up. it's seemingly endless can with this lockdown. i was reading through my neighbor's chat. that's how we communicate with our community liaison, the gate keeper, responsible for china's implementation strategy receiving orders from the top. in my own neighborhood there have been fights, tears. resident didn't asking a few hours ago, why are you dragging us out to another covid test?
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we've had the same number of pcr and antigen tests in the same period. the lockdown is tightening. anderson, you have fences going up. people in some parts of the city being caged in. more roads being barricaded this week. there are no real signs of any easing of this lockdown, and even when the government now tries to reassure that there is a road map out of this, people are no longer buying it. anderson, there is a major credibility issue with officials now. >> so, wait, can you leave your house, your apartment? >> so, i can technically leave with permission from the community liaison. i've got to reach out to them. once they message me back and give me permission, they'll let me leave. they'll ask where do you need to go? take trash out, get another covid test. right now trash is piling up in the terrace. >> in beijing, mass testing is taking place. how many positive tests have
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they had and could there be a lockdown there? >> actually we just got the new numbers from just a short time ago. officially, these are government figures, we have to stress, they are at 107 cases since this outbreak began last week. but for now it's calm in the capital city. we have a a team up there, too. over the weekend they did notice there was panic buying and people stocking up. empty shelves were quickly replenished. that would be a dream here in shanghai. nearly 20 million residents required to get three pcr tests this week alone. that is essentially the entire population. they have targeted lockdowns, anderson. while officials call this urgent and grim, they realize it could get bad. it is also possible, anderson, after what played out here in shanghai, beijing may try to get hold of the outbreak and show the world, see, zero covid, it works. >> david culver, man, hope you get out of there soon. we'll be right back.
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with a 2-year price guarantee. call today. the news continues here on cnn with the latest from ukraine. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. hello and a warm welcome to our viewers in the united states and right around the world. i'm isa soares live in ukraine where we have new evidence of russia's brutality. photos of the dead in bucha now being used to build a war crimes case. >> and i'm rosemary church at cnn world headquarters in atlanta. i'll have all our other top stories, including a dire warning from a wall street bank. why it says a major u.s. recession is coming, and how that news is affecting the stock