tv Early Start With Christine Romans and Laura Jarrett CNN April 27, 2022 2:00am-2:59am PDT
good morning, welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm laura jarrett. christine romans has the morning off. we begin of course in ukraine with russian attacks intensifying in the east. ukraine's armed forces admitted a short time ago they have now lost several towns and villages as heavy fighting rages on. three fronts in the region. ukraine says russian troops are being reinforced from bases inside russia. something putin's forces could not do during their failed
assault on far away kyiv. russia, however, is failing in the air. the uk now says ukraine has retained control of the majority of its air space. russia unable to conquer ukraine's air force or its air defenses despite having more planes in the sky. there is also new evidence emerging from bucha showing russian forces were indeed operating in the exact locations where the bodies of civilians were found after russia's retreat. isa soares is on the ground in ukraine for us. isa, good morning. russia has repeatedly denied that its troops had anything do with all the atrocities that we saw, but of course the pictures don't lie. >> pictures do not lie. good morning to you. what we are seeing is a very different story from what we're hearing from the russians. the very disturbing story, disturbing images we've seen this morning of the atrocities being committed in bucha and the cities just outside of kyiv of course where scores of civilians
were killed. if you remember back in april. now, ukraine's top prosecutor who is compiling the evidence of russia's -- of war crimes committed in you woulbucha prov anderson cooper with some of the images that he is looking into and these images are incredibly disturbing. so a washirning to our viewers. and these photos with were taken in march and they show just ordinary civilians in bucha going about their daily lives, some of them clearly riding their bicycles because that moment there, that is when their life was taken. incredibly hard to watch, to look at these images. so many bodies across the streets. and of course russia as claimed time and time again that these images are fake and that this was staged. but cnn has new drone footage that really pours cold water on that claim. i want to show you some of the
drone footage. this is from march 13, and this has been authenticated and geo located by cnn. and it shows you russian military vehicles in the middle of that bucha intersection. the march 13th also shows russian soldiers parked on that bucha main road. so incredibly worrying indeed. in the meantime, president putin basically pouring cold water yet again on all these claims, saying that the talk of bucha in itself was enough to derail peace talks. have a listen. >> translator: unfortunately, after reaching agreementses and after our clearly demonstrated intentions to create conditions for favorable conditions for the continuation of negotiations, we encountered a plof indication in the village of bucha to which the russian army has nothing to do. >> those comments from president
putin coming of course as he met with the u.n. secretary-general in moscow on tuesday. he agreed -- president putin agreed in principle to involve the u.n. and red cross in trying to evacuate civilians from mariupol. of course those people i've spoken to this morning are hesitant about that because of course the many humanitarian corridors that have been open here have failed. so far there are about 100,000 people still trying to get out of mariupol and about 1,000 stuck holed up inside the azovstal steel plant. >> isa, thank you for your or thing. russia is cutting off natural gas supplies to poland and bulgaria after both countries refuse to pay in rubles. ukraine and the european union called the move gas blackmail. and clare sebastian is joining me now on this angle. what is the impact of this
hitoffh shutoff so far? >> it is stream concern rather than economic impact in terms of poland and bulgaria, lights are still on. poland says that it has enough gas in storage and can source it from other places for the moment, but this is a warning shot to the rest of europe which relies on russia for about 40% of its gas supplies and will struggle overall to find alternative sources. the pipeline poland says supplies are no longer flowing through, that is there in green. and of course we expect that the flows are still going through poland to germany. russia says any sign that they are syphoning off supplies, they will stop their supplies. and this is something that russian has threatened, weaponizing its energy exports. and the eu commission president
saying that they have convened a meeting of the eu gas committee, that they will come up with an eu unified response because make no mistake, this is not just a poland and bulgaria problem, this is an eu problem. and it could plunge large economies like germany into a recession if we see more gas stoppages from russia. >> claire, thank you so much. i want to bring in former commanding general of the u.s. special operations command for europe and he's also been in involved inhe ukrainian militar 2016. nice to have you on "early start." i want to start with lsergey lavrov calling the threat of nuclear war serious and real. general mark milley said that was completely irresponsible with jim sciutto in an interview yesterday. what do you make of the threat at milley's comments in
response? >> so the threat is obviously escalatory. he has made the threat before. the comments that he made early on, probably about a month ago. and it got everybody's attention back then. and it has been calmed down since then. he brought it up again and it tells me that russia is getting increasingly desperate. the reality is that russia will not use nuclear weapons unless its sovereignty is directly and materially threatened. the ten year doctrine, they have been very open with it, i think that it is empty rhetoric out of russia at this moment. general milley's comment in response was i think measured as well. he recognized that it is a serious threat, something that we need to consider, but it is not viable at this point in time. >> putin meantime is saying that russia and ukraine had managed to achieve a serious breakthrough, those are his words, during negotiations in istanbul, but that the situation changed dramatically following
the allegations against russia for the crimes -- essentially crimes against humanity that we have seen in bucha. is that more empty rhetoric as well? >> it is not empty rhetoric, it is an actual problem that they have. russia has committed these crimes. and that changes the nature of the negotiation there. what one side or the other is willing to give up or to compromise on. there can be no compromise on human rights violations to the magnitude that we're seeing in ukraine now. many people have said this is genocide. the president of the united states said it is genocide. and i think that that is a reasonable deduction based on what we've seen in many places like bucha and beyond. >> defense officials have said that there have been close encounters between u.s. forces and russia armament, specifically unmanned aerial vehicles or drones during this ongoing war. that seems like those are not close encounters that you want.
>> of course not. we don't -- we are not at war with russia. it is a war between ukraine and russia. we are enabling ukraine's success by providing them the armaments that they need to be able to counter the invasion from russia. and more importantly, to push russia out of ukrainian territory. we are there to enable them, we are not at war with russia. so these encounters are brought on by russian recklessness in my opinion. >> all right. general, thank you so much for getting up bright and early for me this morning. always nice to have your insight. >> thank you, laura. coming up, new intrigue surrounds vladimir putin's alleged mistress, how the u.s. could leverage their secret relationship. plus, new recession warnings from a big wall street bank. and four astronauts right now rocketing into history high above the earth.
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the city of kharkiv has been a primary target for putin's forces with residential neighborhoods shelled nearly around the clock. clarissa ward found a group of people facing the onslaught with remarkable grit. >> reporter: there is no rest at night for the people of kharkiv. flares light up the sky as artillery thunders through the air. for nearly nine weeks, ukraine's second largest city has been shelled relentlessly. only by day do you see the full-scale of the destruction.
this neighborhood was hit repeatedly last month as russian forces tried to push into the city. no site was spared. not even the local nursery school. so it looks like this was some kind of a dormitory. you can see children's beds here all around. and then in the next room over there was their classroom. their shoes still litter the locker room. mercifully the school had been evacuated, so no children were killed in the strikes. the mayor of kharkiv says that 67 schools and 54 kindergartens have been hit here since the war began. and what is so striking when you look around is that it is so clearly not a military target.
this is a residential neighborhood. just a few blocks away, the bare skeleton of an apartment building. authorities say more than 2,000 houses have been hit here. sounds of war are never far away. you can see this is what is left of the bedroom here. just astonishing. two doors down, we see a figure peeking out. this 73-year-old is still living there alone. she's saying that she does have a sister who she could stay with, but she also lives in an area that is being heavily hit and she's living in a shelter at the moment. it is from all sides, she says. from there, and there, they can shell. with her fresh lipstick, she is a picture of pride and resilience. much like the city, still standing tall in the face of a ruthless enemy.
clarissa ward, cnn, kharkiv. it was a symbol of russian/ukrainian friendship, and now this monument is being dismantled in the midst of a brutal war. it stood tall in the center of ukraine's capital since it was erected back in 1982. kyiv's mayor says the sculpture of two workers is being removed. just ahead for you, the lawmakers who have a major beef with the top bosses in the meat industry. plus, there are more tapes. new audio just released of kevin mccarthy saying in private what he wouldn't say in public around january 6. you're an owner with access to financial advice,
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new audio obtained shows after the january 6 attack on the capitol, the republican leader of the house knew his party had a problem. in frank conversations with colleagues, congressman kevin mccarthy sounds generally worried that some of the rhetoric could incite violence against other lawmakers. >> the tension is too high. the country is too crazy. i don't want to look back and think that we caused something or we missed something and someone got hurt. i don't want to play politics with any of that.
>> that was then. and that wasn't in public. zachary cohen is live in washington, d.c. with more on this story for us. what the tapes really show to me is a man who says one thing in private and another thing in public. but if he won't hold the people that he thinks are actually doing damage to the country accountable, the people in his own party that he is talking about, where does any of this go? >> yeah, i think that is the big question here and one that i think that the january 6th committee really wants to ask kevin mccarthy. again, the chairman bennie thompson said yesterday that the committee is weighing approaching mccarthy again and asking him to voluntarily come before the committee and talk about what he knows. we are more than a year removed from january 6 and we know that the concerns that mccarthy was voicing in this audio about the safety of lawmakers and the potential for the kind of rhetoric we were hearing from some lawmakers and continue to hear from some lawmakers could incite violence are i can't last jat matt.
the usdp, fbi and other agencies have consistently been warning about that since january 6. some have taken to heart, others vice president. but what is interesting about mccarthy, despite how worried and concerned he sounds, he shifted back to his natural posture pretty quickly after this. and all of this is happening with trump in the background and really top of mind for kevin mccarthy going forward. especially if he wants to one day be speaker of the house. now, we have to see what happens there and we have to see if he can continue to keep the support of his own party. we were already seeing a lot of criticism from people like matt gaetz who kevin mccarthy does name as one of the people that he is worried about. gaetz actually pits liz cheney who is the vice chair of the january 6th committee and mccarthy against gaetz and trump. and so this sort of line is already being drawn there. we know the committee wants to
hear from kevin mccarthy, but that being said, we have to expect that he is probably not going to be willing to do that if he wants to be speaker of the house one day. >> so what do they want to hear from him? haven't we heard basically everything, the unvarnished version already? what more do they want from him? >> yeah, that is a great question because what you said, we know that kevin mccarthy has voiced concerns like this what is on the audiotape and there has been a lot of public reporting about his comments about trump and the immediate aftermath of january 6. but as you pointed out, there is a big difference between what somebody says in private and what they say in public. we know that the january 6 committee at the end of the day wants to hold public hearings, they want to produce a really comprehensive report that outlines what happened in the leadup to january 6 and proposes ways to make sure that it never happens again. and they think that kevin mccarthy could share information that would help them do that. >> tear
fair enough. zach, thank you. up next, russian leader's alleged mistress. could the u.s. find a way to use her proximity to putin to their advantage? and the meat executives about to get grilled on capitol hill. emerge tremfyant®. trememfya® is approved to help reduce... joint symptoms in n adults with active psoriatic arthritis. some patients even felt lessss fatigued. serious allergic r reactions may occur. tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. emerge tremfyant® with tremfya®... ask you doctor about tremfya® today. (heartbes) ice works fast...
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putiputin's inner circle, but one person spared so far, his rumored girlfriend. nic robertson has more. [ speaking foreign language ] >> reporter: she is back in the news again, first romantically linked to president putin more than a decade ago. a relationship he has denied ever since. they met years earlier, reportedly when she was a young medal winning gymnast. he looks smitten. last week stepping out at a moscow gymnastics event, rallying the nation as it slips to international isolation. >> translator: competitions will be held only in russia, but on the contrary, the gymnastics will be better and more spectacular and the russian gymnastics is not losing anything in the situation. >> reporter: her life transformed much richer u.s. officials say according to the "wall street journal" following her purported proximity to
putin. questions now, why hasn't she been sanctioned like him. >> why you would refrain from sanctioning someone arguably close to putin. >> i don't have analysis at this point because we're still reviewing. there is more we'll likely do. >> reporter: the two rarely if ever seen together. their precise relationship, if any, unclear. but more than a decade of rumors undimmed with time. now against the backdrop of wartime symbolism, calling on the country to support putin's war. >> translator: every family has a history of war and we shouldn't forget about it. we should hand it over from generation to generation. >> reporter: her wealth and ties to putin are hot political topic since the "wall street journal" wrote treasury officials decided last minute not to sanction her. >> there is articles in the paper about family members that have been used by putin to sort
of launder money and talk of a girlfriend in sweden. do you know anything about an effort to bring sanctions against her? >> first answer is no and the second answer i guess is if i did know, i wouldn't be able to discuss it here. >> reporter: whatever kabaeva's proximity to putin, her financial moves never more closely watched than now. nic robertson, cnn, brussels. and back here in the u.s., deutsche bank is predicting a major recession for the u.s. economy. the bank claims the federal reserve will likely raise interest rates too aggressively making the recession even worse than the bank's economists initially expected. matt egan is here with me on set with the very latest. so deutsche fwbank has researcho back up its claims. >> this is really all about high
inflation. doich do you ha deutsche bank to say recession in the united states but they first said a mild one. but now they say that inflation is so high, it won't be mild, it will actually be a major one. and the crux of their argument is that the federal reserve is really, really late here when it comes to -- >> and too reactive. >> well, in this case that they are not reactive enough up until now, and then that they might overreact. they found that when you look at inflation and the unemployment rate, the fed is further behind the curve than it has been at any point since the early '80s. and the concern is that to catch up, they are going to not be able to just sort of tap the brakes on the economy and gradually raise interest rates. they will have to slam the brakes. this is a key line from their report. they wrote our view is the only way to minimize the economic and societal damage is to err on the side of doing too much. the problem is that the harder
they hit the brakes, that raises the risks of an accident either in markets, in the economy, or in both. >> the bank does say that it sees the economy rebounding by mid 2024, but that could be a lifetime from now. i mean, a lot can happen in between now and then. is there any hope on the immediate horizon? >> well, they are saying that they think that this downturn would begin at the end of the 2023 and that by mid 2024, yes, the economy would be rebounding. i think the good news is that their gloom and doom is not universal on wall street. other economists think that the fed could pull it out. goldman sachs says they don't think that recession is needed to get inflation under control. but i would point out that investors are starting to get nervous about at least the slowdown in the economy, the dow fell more than 800 points, 2.4%, yesterday. it is down as you can see on that chart about 1700 points in just the past week. stock futures, they are back up this morning, but markets do remain on edge.
i mean, the truth is that no one has a crystal ball here. we're really in unchartered waters and so that probably mean as bumpier ride ahead in the economy and the economy. >> and when they speak, the market listens. all right, thanks to explaining it. and we talk a lot about how inflation is driving prices higher on just about everything from gas to food. still, america's meat packing industry has some explaining to do as consumer prices are soaring, and their corporate profits are surging. ceos of the four largest companies will be grilled at a house hearing later today. daniella tee asdiaz is live on i will for us. what do the lawmakers want to hear from these execs? >> reporter: these ceos will come under a tough line of questioning from house members later today at a committee hearing where they will be asked repeatedly about the rising cost of food. now, those ceos of course being
of cargill, tyson foods, jbs and the national beef packing. they are expected to testify. and this is at a time when households are facing 40 year high of inflation and it has put a lot of pressure on the biden administration and congressional democrats ahead of the 2022 midterms, of course effect affecting americans in their pockets. this is why that they are of course trying to call the ceos to testify today. and i just want to put a little bit of data on why this is so important. since the last year overall meat and fish prices have risen nearly 14% on an annual basis, this is according to data from the u.s. department of labor. and this is of course spurred on by covid-19 pandemic, supply chain issues, and there are bills under consideration in congress that would set up a new enforcement division in the usda increasing competition, a lot of congressional democrats think that competition is the problem here, that there needs to be
more competition, which would lower prices of food. but look, really the biden administration and congressional democrats have vowed that they will crack down on, you know, these issues of inflation. they want to lower the prices on food to help americans directly. and we'll see a lot of line of questioning later today on this issue. >> daniella, thank you. just ahead, if you have been like many people taking an aspirin every day, you will want to hear about the new research that has scientists changing their minds about the drug. and this -- dr. anthony fauci skipping nerd prom in washington, d.c. due to covid concerns. should the president do the same? you're an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalalized pln that helps you build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner.
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dose of aspirin in the hopes of preventing heart attack and stroke, but now scientists say that they see little benefit for most healthy people and they are worried about the risk of bleeding in the stomach or brain as patients get older. let's bring in the executive vice chairman of the department of emergency medicine at massachusetts general hospital. doctor, so nice to have you back on "early start." help me out here, why the 180 in this recommendation after years of doctors suggesting that people take aspirin? i think of so many aspirin ads that i've seen over the years saying this is the safest pain reliever out there. and also if this is in fact something we should avoid, is there an alternative? >> a great question. you know, the way aspirin works is it actually stops platelets from sticking together and stops blood clots from forming. so over the years i've seen tons of patients in the emergency room who come in with heart attacks and strokes, and almost all of they will put on aspirin to prevent the next woxt one.
but here the u.s. preventive services task force, as a panel of clinicians that gets together to not talk about what you do after something happens but what we can do to prevent disease. and what they came out with is the fact that for healthy people, not people who have had heart attack, not people who have had strokes, but for healthy people over the age of 60 who have been taking aspirin to prevent disease, well, because of the bleeding risks, because your body has a harder time forming blood clots, it is not worth it for them to start taking aspirin. now, this is probably because of the fact that lot of the newer studies that they are basing the recommendation to have been done on patients who are on good medications for blood pressure control and for cholesterol control. and when are you on those, the added benefit of aspirin really isn't there compared to the bleeding risks. and so what i want to emphasize though, if you are already on aspirin, don't stop all of a
sudden this morning after listening to laura and me. >> because i'm about to call my mom and tell her to cut it out. >> don't do that. have her call up her clinician, the person who talks to her about her individual risk for heart attacks and strokes. and make that decision together. >> so maybe perhaps don't listen to her daughter who is not a physician. you probably heard the news that the vice president has tested positive for covid-19. the white house says that she is being treated with this drug paxlovid that so many people had a really hard time getting their hands on frankly unless their symptoms were severe or they some how had connections to get it. but now the biden administration is making it more widely available. perhaps this is not the way that they wanted to roll that out, but bottom line, is this essentially something that everyone should be giving if they test positive? >> it is a good question. you know, paxlovid works. it can lead to up to a 90% reduction of hospitalization and death if you give within five days and if it is given to patients who would otherwise get pretty severe disease.
but the trouble is, it actually has a lot of drug interactions. so talking about your mom who takes aspirin, it has a lot of drug interactions with other medications. so it shouldn't go to everybody who tests positive, but what we need, we need to be able to quickly get people who test positive to talk to an expert clinician about it and then to get the prescription. so i love the fact that the white house is making -- i think they have 20 million -- enough medication for 20 million people to get treated ordered, but what we need is test to treat sites where patients can take a test and if they test positive, talk to a clinician right there and get a prescription filled so it can all happen all at once. >> and i heard so many doctors say look, i'd love to describe it if i could, but i have a hard time getting it. so hopefully that does help out with that and glad to know that the v.p. so far is not experiencing any severe symptoms as far as we know. i also want to ask you about this. cnn is reporting now that dr.
anthony fauci has pulled out of the white house correspondents dinner that is supposed to happen this weekend over covid concerns. dr. fauci looks like he is in really good shape, but is he still 81 years old. should president biden, who is 79, be going to this event? >> you know, it is interesting. i've heard dr. fauci on a lot of podcasts that gets up and he still running every morning and he seems pretty healthy. and we can't know anything different than that. this is really about personal risk and tolerance. the fact is that the organizers of the white house correspondents dinner are doing great job. they are requiring that everybody who comes this is vaccinated and that also shows a proof of negative covid testing. not over the past few days but that day. so fully vaccinated, and a negative covid test that day. and therement w won't be zero r but about as minimal as you could get. so i think that it is safe for the president to be there. >> and i don't know if you've
been there, but they pack you in like sardines there. so if you saw covid cases coming out of the gridiron, you will see covid cases come out of the white house correspondents dinner mark my words. doctor, thank you so much for getting up early this morning. >> thanks a lot. a last second lay-up lifted the grizzlies to a huge comeback win over the timberwolves. andy scholes has it covered in the "bleacher report." >> yeah, what a night for ja morant. he is arguably with the dunk of the year and made the winning shot to beat the timber wolfs in a pivotal game five last night. ja's dad looks almost identical to usher. check it out. can you it he will who is who? not easy. and he watched his season glide through the air. and the crowd going nuts over that. the grizzlies trailed by as many as 13 in the fourth quarter but took a three point lead with under ten seconds to go and that
is when edwards comes up big. he will hit the three here in the corner to tie it up with three seconds left. memphis then draws up a play for ja and he will hang in the air and get the layup to go with one second left. timberwolves had no time-outs. and memphis would win a thriller 111-109. >> just one more, man. one more. saving my grit for that one more win, man. one more. >> ja pretty happy there. the heat meanwhile looking to close out the hawks last night, butler and lowry sitting out game five with injuries. the slam here put the heat up by four. hawks had the balling down three with five seconds left, but miami just stifling defense. atlanta doesn't even get a shot off. and that is how their season ends. miami moves on with the win.
they will meet the winner of the 76ers/raptors series beginning next week. suns now one win away from advancing to the second round. phoenix never trailed in this one. bridges scoring 31 points including a perfect 4 for 4 from beyond the three point line. and the suns 50-0 this season when leading after three quarters including 3-0 in this series. they can close it out tomorrow night in game six in new orleans. the bucks can move on to the second round if they beat the bulls tonight in game five. so can the warriors if they win at home over the nuggets. both on tnt. to baseball where the tigers found a really weird way to lose. they were up by one in the bottom of the ninth against the twins when this lirn liner rolls all the way to the glove. thinking the ball would be caught, he stopped at third base. and so there was rundown between second and third. but the catcher throws the ball
over the head of the third baseman allowing him to score. and then the game winning run. minnesota gets the wild victory on one of the strangiest walk-offs you will see this season. and check it out, a foul ball bounces towards a dad who was feeding his baby a bottle. jacob reaches out and makes the grab while the 11 month old never stops eating the entire time. as you can see, he and his wife super impressed by the catch. she said that it was like the coolest thing ever. you know what, laura, we've seen a lot of great catches. but i don't think that i've ever seen one where the bottle never left the baby's mouth. that was pretty cool. >> you have like somehow made this a cottage industry of finding all of these tapes of dads holding their babies. never take that bottle away from the baby. good for that dad knowing the
priorities. >> multi tasking. >> andy, thank you. and new explosions overnight, this time inside russia. more on what that could mean just ahead for you. and next, the historic first happening right now in space. kitchen? sorted. hot tub, why not? and of course, puppy-friendly. we don't like to say perfect, but it's pretty perfectct. booking.com, booking.yeah. (vo) verizon n business unlimited is going ultra! get more. like manny. event planning with our best plan ever. (manny) yeah, that's what i do. (vo) with 5g ultra wideband in many more cities, you get up to 10 times the speed at no extra cost. verizon is going ultra, soour business can get more. psoriatic arthtis, made my joints stiff, swollen, painful. emerge tremfyant®. tremfya® is approved to help reduce... joint symptoms in adults with active psoriatic arthritis. some patients even felt less fatigued. serious allergic reactions may occur.
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four, three, two, one. zero. ignition. >> the spacex falcon 9 rocket lifting off just a short time ago from the kennedy space center headed for the international space station. let's bring in cnn defense and space correspondent kristen fisher now. we've seen a couple of these in recent months. what is so significant about this mission in particular? >> good morning, laura. so this mission is really a science and research mission to the international space station. and so nasa really looking at the impacts of long duration space flight on the astronauts. and the reason why that is so important is because nasa of course is gearing up for its
ar artemis program and so they want to see how they do for extended periods of time. and that is particularly important for one astronaut on this mission in particular. jessica watkins, she is about to become the very first black woman to spend an extended period of time up at the international space station, or a long duration space flight as that is called. and nasa has said that when they return american astronauts to the moon, they want one of the first people to touchdown on the moon to be a woman of color. and so this mission is really about training these astronauts to potentially some day be on one of those artemis missions. we got to see the spectacular launch just a few hours ago from the kennedy space center, these four nasa astronauts on board a spacex falcon 9 rocket inside a crew dragon capsule. and they will spend the next 15
hours or so on the mission. whaend the and when they get there, the hatch will open and they will be greeted by those already up there. and very interesting given the current geopolitical tensions over the situation in ukraine. and laura, it is not just the launch we got to see. the landing too, that booster return at night, always spectacular if you've never had a chance to see it. >> yes, very cool. kristen, thanks so much. thanks so much for joining me today. i'm laura jarrett. "new day" starts right now. breaking news. good morning to our viewers here in the united states and all around the world, it is wednesday, april 27th, i'm john berman with brianna keilar. breaking news, word just in of an expanding war, possibly inside russia. and economically for the first time in a new way over the
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