tv Don Lemon Tonight CNN July 12, 2022 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT
my blood pressure is borderline. garlique healthy blood pressure formula helps maintain healthy blood pressure with a custom blend of ingredients. i'm taking charge, with garlique. the january six committee heard a powerful presentation heard it -- to rally his supporters, to send descend on january. -- the committee saying the evidence confirms that trump's call to march on the capitol was not a spontaneous call to action. more now from cnn's ryan. >> the january 6th select committee is their seventh public hearing to build the case at all trump had a plan. to call his supporters to washington to march on the capitol and stand in the way of certifying the 2020 election.
one witness, stephen ayres, who has since pleaded guilty, answer trump's call. >> we didn't actually plan to go down there. you know, we went basically, to stop the steal rally. and that's it. >> why did you decide to march in the capital? >> basically, the president got everyone riled up. told everyone to head on down. so, basically, we fault but he said. >> the committee unveiling never before seen depositions and communications amongst trump insiders, showing that the former president ignored the advice of his own advisers and, instead, leaned on the council of election deniers like sydney powell, michael flynn and rudy giuliani. >> categorically describe it as, you guys are not tough enough. maybe, put it another way, you are a bunch of weaklings. excuse the expression.
that's the word that was used. >> trump knew he lost the election but was driven to overturn the results anyway. >> president trump is a 76-year-old man. he is not an impressionable child. just like everyone else in our country, he is responsible for his own actions and his own choices. >> a drive that led to iraq's meeting at the white house in the middle of december. trump wanted to name attorney sydney powell as special counsel in order to seize voting machines. >> the president said, okay. i'm giving her security colored's. >> possible any testified that he was just pleased to see people like powell and flynn in the oval office. telling trump, naming pell special counsel was a grave mistake. >> federal government sees those voting machines is a terrible idea. that is not how we do things in the united states. there's no legal authority to do that. i don't think any of these
people were providing the president with good advice. some, i didn't understand how they had gotten. >> cipollone also described his frustration dealing with people who couldn't produce any evidence of widespread voter fraud. >> i disregard, a general disregard, for the importance of facts. facts. >> after, trump shifting gears and not backing down from his pursuit of election lies. tweeting the next day, an invitation to descend on washington on january 6th. >> be there. we will be wild the president wrote. >> the committee also presented a draft tweet from the national archives showing trump planned before january 6th to tell his supporters, please arrive early. massive crowds expected. march to the capitol after. this, despite members of trump's cabinet and inner circle testifying that they told trump he lost the election and he should concede to biden
after the electoral college met in december. >> i conveyed to him that i thought that it was time for him to acknowledge that president biden had prevailed in the election. >> if your question is, did i believe that he should concede the election, at that point in time, yes, i did. >> the committee plans to hold another hearing next week. it could be a big one. that is what the committee plans to outline what they describe as donald trump's dereliction of duty during the 187 minutes of the capital was under siege. the committee concluded that the hearing took place on tuesday with it he's in a hint to that. also, a note about potential witness they say was called out of the blue by the former president, donald trump. they say that witness declined the call and informed his attorney. then, inform the committee. the committee confirmed that the department of justice for
witness intimidation. john? >> brian nobles. thank you very. much i want to bring into police officers who defended the capitol on january 6th, both were injured. michael is a former metric -- he's now an analyst. -- he is with the capitol police. today, genesis committee honored his heroism. his injuries have forced him to leave the job. gentlemen, thank. you appreciate joining us this evening. mike, i'm gonna start with you because you are both in today's hearing. you sat with your former colleague, details were incredible. disturbing when it comes to how premeditated january 6th attack was. what was it like to sit there in that room and hear that today? >> i mean, it just confirmed what i think,, each and every one of these hearings has led us to understand.
violence was part of the plan all along. that the president, former president, and those in his inner circle, like mark meadows, knew that violence was going to be, or play a part, on january 6th. and that it's nothing to stop it. in that, they supported the violence that was, you know, eventually played out on january 6th. the other takeaway for me was absolute cowardice on behalf of each and every member of the trump administration when it came to calling out the place inside of trump's white house.
i had waited 18 months to hear from these people. i can't understand it. >> you cut out a little bit. there you said that you had to wait months to hear from the. you can't understand that, correct? jake that correctly? >> yes, sir. >> we're having a little bit of trouble. we'll try to fix the signal and i'm gonna talk to the sergeant. sergeant, you wrote an op-ed in the new york times this weekend titled, i was betrayed by president trump. what was the impact on you up today's testimony? >> well, thanks for having me on, don. good to see you. the impact it has that it had on my life is pretty much every single part of my life. it's up ended. a long recovery.
the physical therapy. the trauma. not being able to perform my job like i normally was doing before january six. to the point that i no longer able to fulfill that job. i have no more capacity. i'm no longer recommended by my doctors and mental health provider, as well. just like mr. i or. he is trying to get on with his why life. january 6th, for me, it wasn't just january 6th. it continues to be. even if i leave the department,
i seem to be involved with investigations. by the, trial in the future. it's not going to, and for me, for a lot of people that was there that day. that's it. as you -- >> yes. sergeant, i'm want to get airs in the second. you got to say that you weren't able to perform their duties, right? congressman raskin, at the end of today's hearing, list what he said. then, we will discuss. >> last month, on june 28th, sergeant gonell's team of doctors told him that permanent injuries he has suffered to his left shoulder and right foot now make it impossible for him to continue as a police officer. he must leave police frigate and figure out the rest of his life. sergeant gonell, we wish you
and your family all the best. we are here for you. we salute you for your fowler, your eloquence, your commitment to america. >> you said you want to move on. how do you move on? this is a job that you love, sergeant? >> today was very emotional because prior to me going to the hearing, i was in a room with the fbi agents going over some trial prep, stuff like that. i don't please work for 16 years. reach 17 just last month. i was getting ready and excited too, because i found it a couple weeks ago that i passed the lieutenant test. i got my scores. we are celebrating that. i had to plant my, possibly, my life after being a police officer.
everything has come to a halt because of january 6th and the person who perpetrated it is still in mar-a-lago, living the life and don't care about how many lives he ruined just for his loss of power. >> still saying that he won an election that he lost. >> correct. >> but he got to the people took the capitol. >> correct. >> correct. >> sergeant, are starting to sergeant gonell. above capitol hill writer testified today. the hearings are, this have been. cnn tkachuk guard. tell me about this moment. what was said. i know i spoke to after the hearing. i want the audience to hear what you thought. >> yeah, i don't remember exactly what mr. air said to me. like i said, it caught me off guard. i know that he did apologize.
not to take away from his apology, i'm not looking for apologies from anybody. i'm looking for apologies from the people that assaulted me. not looking for apologies from the former president or any of those that supported him on january 6th. i just want accountability. people broke the law and should go to jail. period. i said that if, you know, his apology to me didn't really do anything for me, i hope it did something for him. that is how i felt about it. >> surging in the, go on. well as a luxury? >> i don't feel the same way. just like mike said. to be honest, if that was genuine done by him or as a photo op, that's on him.
the actions of the things that were done on january 6th, somehow the future, he'll have to answer to the charge legally or when everything is said and done. i know i'm trying to live a life and move on. based on minus circumstances. one of things i'm planning to do, put in writing would happen to me. hope somebody picks it up. if not, i can look at that. people need to learn from what happened on january six. one of the ways we can learn from it is if we investigate everything and hold those people who planned on orchestrating this something that didn't do something by action, it should be held accountable. >> certain? michael, thank you very much. gentlemen, thank you very much. >> don?
real quick, man. during today's testimony, i heard passable one nominate the former vice president for presidential bunch medal of freedom. i just wanna say this, there was recently 17 individuals that were nominated and for throwing out nominations. i think someone was forgotten. chief robert from the metropolitan police department, assistant chief, i'm sorry, commander robert kluber from the metropolitan police department. and commander kyle from the police department. if those are out there in the audience, if they want to know who is responsible for our victory in general sixth at the u.s. capitol, those are the three people that are intimately responsible. joe biden, get your head out of
your behind and award those individuals the presidential medal of freedom. >> thank you gentlemen. >> wanting to include to that, in respect to lloyd from the u.s. capitol police. >> thank you, i appreciate it, thank you for what you did. it may have been the craziest part of the plot to overturn our election, wipeout cipollone told the committee that's not how we do things in the united states. discover is accepted at 99% of places in the u.s. ["onlyly wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish]
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sydney powell, michael flynn, rudy giuliani. focusing on wild ideas to overturn the election, like invoking martial law and seizing voting machines. now we know how's and white house counsel pat cipollone reacted. i want to discuss with former assistant prosecutor nick akerman. and the former head of intelligence of the d.c. homeland security department. to perfect people to talk about this. good evening, thank you for joining us. nick, i will start with. you -- in this new testimony from the white house counsel pat so belogna. on what he said on the idea to seize voting machines, an idea for a loaded at that meeting. i want you to watch this. >> had the federal government seized voting machines it's a terrible idea. that's not how we do things in the united states. >> i mean that was one of the wild ideas, -- >> he's absolutely right i mean
there's no basis to do it if you look at the actual order that sydney powell showed with general flynn. it basically goes on to say that there was probable cause of election fraud which was there was not. it goes on to allow sydney powell to bring civil actions and criminal actions against anyone involved in this. which would be a complete craziness. the idea she could go out and prosecute people willy-nilly and people and sue people willy-nilly for no real basis. look at the lawsuits she brought in the country. this was nuts! and basically, i think what struck me about this was finally the normal people in the white house. the white house counsel and the people around the staff, prevailed upon donald trump to get rid of these clowns. and to get them out of the oval office. and then, with an i don't know, hours. somehow he spoke to somebody, somehow he came up with this plan, to basically send out that tweet. inviting all of the crazies to
washington for january 6th. >> that's what i was going to say. i want to -- speaking about tweets, when trump realized he wasn't going to get what he wanted. he went on twitter just hours later. and posted that infamous tweet saying january 6th would be wild. what did trump supporters in some of those extremist groups take from that tweet? >> they took a cue from the tweet. we have been monitoring that event for a few weeks before. it was really -- very little interest in a particular date. the next day, twitter, and what we call open source intelligence completely blew up. we saw a lot of information that suggested that a lot of people were going to be showing up. not just regular trump supporters, but really violent individuals. that's what concerns us. >> and so even after that, your concern was -- you said your concern was about the capitol, and protecting? it >> absolutely, they weren't coming to say, who's got the high bocce. they were saying, who's got the guns, where do we hide the guns,
who has the plans for the capital. how do we penetrate into the capital. these weren't regular first amendment protected activities. this had nothing to do with the first amendment. they were coming to take over the capital. and we expressed that. >> your concern about the capitol not being protected? >> i personally wasn't concerned about the capital not being protected. it's not in my jurisdiction. and i had no idea, that it wouldn't be protected. that's what i am really curious about. they were clearly putting this out on open source, media, that they were going to do this. why weren't things protected they way they should have been? >> here is some of the testimony the committee showed today, what's watch. >> we got a information, suggesting that very very violent individuals were organizing to come to d.c.. and not only where they organizing to come to d.c.. these groups, these non aligned groups were aligning. and so, all of the red flags
[inaudible] when you have armed militia, collaborating with white supremacist groups, collaborating with conspiracy theory groups online. all towards the common goal. you start seeing what we call in term: a blended ideology. that's a very very bad sign. >> again, that was your testimony. it's pretty clear that there was some very bad actors, as you said, converging. you have this open source information, converging on the capitol. has the committee been able to directly connect those plotters to the former president? >> i don't know if they have been able to. i think that's the direction that they are leading into. i think they are making very good cases after the seventh hearing. that there was a lot of nexus there, between these individuals, who are waiting for the call. i mean, literally they are waiting for the call. the next day, they started
talking about what they were going to do. i want to tell you why they did this. we're not talking about the deep and dark web don, we're not talking about encrypted chat rooms. they were doing this on twitter. why would they do this on twitter? they were invited to do so. they thought it was a legal action. that's what you see, a lot of individuals like the person who testified today. they thought they were getting a legal direction, to come to the capitol, and prevent something that should not have happened. >> nick? >> yeah this was all part of a concerted plan. i would like to know, who donald trump called after all the crazies left on december 18th, and before he did that tweet. we have several suspects here. one is roger stone, who was involved with the proud boys, he was involved with the oath keepers. you have stephen bannon, who was out of the war room at the willard hotel. you heard the testimony of cassidy hutchinson, who said that her boss called roger stone. we don't know what was said.
we know that he also called into a meeting at the war room, we know that steve bannon was involved in this, after he spoke to donald trump. we learn today, immediately after that, he went on his podcast, talking about what would happen the next day, at the january 6th, at the capitol. i mean the whole point of this, was not so much that they were not letting people know, for -- because it was a dereliction of duty. this was very purposeful. the whole point was to create violence, and mayhem, to stop the count of the electoral vote. so that joe biden could not be certified as the united states president. it was to stop the peaceful transfer of power. and so anything that trump did, the fact he sat around and didn't do anything during the day on january 6th was very purposeful. >> but also the bombshell that liz cheney you know -- talked about, at the end of the hearing right. she said that donald trump
attempted to contact a witness, and they turn that over. they informed the doj. is the doj obligated to follow up on that? >> it's very hard, nothing actually happened. because the person ever reached the witness. but there is a general overall problem here. the fact that they are paying -- the lawyers fees, for all of these various people. what it means is, that these lawyers have all entered into a joint defense agreement. something that is very common. when you enter into a joint defense agreement. it means you can then tell each and every lawyer who is part of that agreement. who is testifying, what they are saying. all of that is normally proper. but if you are using that information in some way to find out, who the people are that might be writing you out. or might be talking or cooperating. that's when it comes into a problem. i don't think that's really been explained, that's the underlying issue here. >> where do you see this, going quickly? >> i see this going, being tied up next week in the final hearing.
i think they are going to tie in the people to the actual extremist roger stone, and the others that were involved in this are going to be shown to be the conduit to donald trump. that's where i think this is going. >> nick thank you, darnell thank, you i really appreciate both of you joining us. he's a 76 year old man. not an impressionable child, that's what liz cheney is saying about donald trump. her argument that he is responsible for his actions, not the people his advisors called: the crazies. stay with us.
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with testimony from witness after witness about one of the most shameful episodes in our history. joining me now, analyst philip mudd and ashley allison. cnn legal analyst analyst and political khan -- stewart. good to see all of you, except for phil mudd. [laughs] so, i'm going to start with helmet. >> don't start ugly with me. it won't end well. >> trump wanted everyone to march the capitol. preplanned. how do you think the committee did laying down trump's culpability in all of this? >> shockingly. you started wrong, don. they didn't hammer it home. they hammered home one piece of the story here. that is if you look at the election interference, attempted election interference, what happened and the presidents responsibility for it. for example, calling down to jordan saying, i want to find fake votes. i don't know how you get around that one. the president is culpable. his intent is clear. his involvement is clear. i miss one, you have comments
from the president. it is going to be a big day, come down for a major event. if you are defending the president, remember, there is no defense here. someone is going to, say they never told him to break one's at the capitol. i think the committee on issue of election interference is clear and compelling. i think on this, today, they didn't make a case. not even close. >> elliott? you're the attorney here. >> i am. that is true. okay. the question of did they make a case or not? as much as i love my friend, phil mudd, i think we're holding congress to the wrong standard, right? it is the justice department's ultimate job to decide whether you can move forward the case. congress is quite persuasively making the argument that, number one, historically, things happened on january 6th. number two, there may have been any number of crimes committed. won by president trump. to, by a senior visor. three, rudy giuliani is getting
free pass here. i'm talking about him. this argument that we are are falling into quite often that somehow congress needs to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that anybody has committed a crime, it's holding caucus strong standard. it is a political body that has the power to refer charges to the justice department. you know, i think congress to great job for what they set out to do. >> a lot of this, if you sort of pick up but they're putting down, as they say, it sounds like congress is signaling to the department of justice. the committee should the committee members with roger stone. here, with michael flynn. they also show roger stone in group chats with the leaders of the oath keepers in the proud boys. stone denies this. discuss the threat to follow that can link trump to knowledge of what was happening, phil? >> go ahead. elliott. you are gonna answer. >> no.
it can, right? i think in order to get the president, which is the question everyone has. what, specifically, did the president have? you need more direct communication then is available right now. now, again, is this disqualifying for a future office? absolutely. now, there's all sorts of other crimes that they have committed here, namely, witness tampering. we're gonna talk about this today. conspiracy against the united states. but this incitement to violence question and whipping up hate groups and charging the president, it's gonna be incredibly difficult to do based on the information available to the public. again, we don't know what the justice department has. the way justice department works, it's not public with what is going on investigations. right now, at this minute, charging the president for those connections is gonna be incredibly difficult. >> liz cheney has advice there.
i think there's two different lanes here. there is the court of public opinion. there's a court of law, which the doj will make a decision on. without a doubt, without question, this committee has moved the ball and move the needle in the court of public opinion. not just liz cheney. not just democrats on the committee. we're talking publicans and trump's inner circle. what we heard today, before, during, and after, his involvement and culpability in this in the capital. we heard from top aide jason miller say that early on he told the president, with regard to voter irregularities and voter fraud, evidence of that is, then if not, nonexistent. we heard top advisor acknowledge and tex katrina pierson that trump's rhetoric did lead to the riots and even death. he feels bad for his involvement in.
that we heard from cipollone, which was credible, reliable, trusted, legal adviser for the president and acknowledge that that meeting on december 18th should not have happened. trying to take the ballot boxes is not what we do in this country. he gave him good legal advice with regard to that. the morons today that were out there on january 6th acknowledge that they were going to do, willing to do, anything that the president said. did so until the president finally pulled them away. there are indisputable evidences and information that he is directly responsible for what happened. how big of an impact will that be on voters? what will doj decide to do? that's what we've heard in these hearings. >> you have been sitting by patiently. i just want, she mentioned liz cheney. she think that she feels trump allies are attempting to defend
trump by saying that he was influenced by some rogue operatives. listen to them discuss. >> this new strategy is to try to blame only john eastman, or sydney powell, or congressman scott perry, or others. and not president trump. in this version, the president was quote, poorly served, by these outside advisers. the strategy is to blame people, his advisors, called, quote, the crazies, for what donald trump did. this, of course, is nonsense. president trump is a 76-year-old man. he is not an impressionable child. >> so, ashley, the idea that trump could claim ignorance or, that's falling apart. >> absolutely. he wasn't the person that made the call that said come to the nation's capital. the other thing is that it's not like when he learned, when he knew, because we know he
knows he lost that election in december. but that is not the first time donald trump started to say to the belief that he lost the election. he had laid bread crumbs the in a whole year trying to undermine our institution of democracy. so that when he, when an if he lost the election, he could claim, oh, there's no way could be possible. the election didn't have any integrity. he knew. he incited people to go to the capital. i think he should be held accountable in the court of law. whether or not the committee made its case today, i don't think it was the strongest hearing today it. i do think ignorance is not the defense he should try and claim. he is the president of the united states! >> was. >> was. thank gosh. he was the president of the united states. he knew and his responsible. >> a couple things here. after all of that, right? after all that he's been accused of doing, they are not accusing him of trying to
intimidate a witness, or to influence in witness, right? when i talk about. that alice brings up something that is very important. what does this mean for the midterm? what does it mean for the next election? just this weekend the former president? stick around, everybody. we'll be right back. it's started. somewhere between a cuddle and a struggle, it's...the side hug.
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stewart. so elliott, cheney dropping this bombshell that trump was contacted, has contacted a witness that we have not seen yet. cheney says that person never picked up, instead, telling their lawyer who told the committee, who then inform the doj. what does it tell you that trump himself made the call, instead of a staffer? >> right, you have to find out who the person is, if it is ivanka trump, it may not be a big deal. if it's another witness, may much be a big deal. so it depends on number one, who he called, why he called them, and what the purpose was? >> okay elliott -- ivanka trump would not be calling the committee saying that my dad called me. >> all i'm saying -- okay come on man. >> it's somebody we haven't heard from yet. >> all we know is that a potential witness was called. let's find out more about it. but look, witness tampering, it's not that hard to get to. if a person, in a position of the president, calls someone with an attempt to suede or
stop them from testifying. we have seen before that it's happened. i'm not really disagreeing with you here on this, i think we need to find out who it is, and we don't know right now. >> you know better than that [laughs] i'm kidding. alice, multiple republican aides told the committee how they appalled they were, by what was going on in the white house. today the new york times is out with new polling. polling that shows half of the gop is ready to part with trump. is that it discussed felt by some of trump aides? is that now reverberating through the gop? >> it is a dawn. look, the cake is baked on at the january 6th, on the edges. trump's base, loyal base, is going to stand by him. those that don't like him, democrat and republican party, have already thrown him off the reservation. those in the middle, rational republicans, they are frustrated, they are looking for someone who will be a conservative without the chaos. would we have seen in this hearing, all the hearings, a
former president, we have seen, who is unhinged, detached from reality. and certainly is not someone that is the right person, and many minds to lead the party moving forward. that's why we are seeing people like ron desantis and others raising millions and millions of dollars. because people are looking for another option. >> phil, you changed your mind on this. you thought it was going to damage him, now you think? >> aside from the fact that republicans are thinking of changing their minds after the man spent his career as a businessman allying, and started his campaign saying the former president was born in kenya! and with the crotch tape, and now people are saying i'm not with this guy. we'll leave that aside, i think that is completely absurd. in terms of the hearings, three weeks ago, when we spoke, i was more skeptical about the hearings. i thought they would be a little more partisan, frankly, a lot more boring. but as someone who looked at investigations, at the fbi, their breath of information, and the depth of what people were involved in and at the white house. has led me over the last few
weeks, to say not on the january 6th issue. on the election interference issue, if you are in doj, you are in one hot place! if you ignore this, you are ignoring a lot of advocates who say, how can you ignore this, this is pretty clear. they try to change the election. >> what do you think this means ashley, final thoughts, moving forward for trump? >> i think what we saw, and the testimony today was a trump supporter, who said, he was brainwashed basically by what he was getting on social media platforms. there are still a lot of voters who are still in these chat rooms, and on right wing sites that are getting bad information. that are not allowing them to pull away from donald trump, i think there are other issues that are at play. this election cycle. the issue of abortion, gun rights, obviously the economy, and i think if democrats can tell the story. that the republicans, particularly all these republicans that donald trump has endorsed. they have been using him, on the campaign trail. are obstructionists, and our
authoritarians. the dems have a chance in the fall. >> thank you all, i appreciate it. i didn't fight with anyone, except for elliott. he deserved it though [laughs] thanks. we'll be right back [laughs] le in just a few clicks. and we'll come to you with a a replacement you can trust. >> man: looks great. >> tech: that's servrvice on yor time. schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ ♪ age before beauty? why not both? visibly diminish wrinkleskin in just two days. new crepe corrector lotion only from gold bd. champion your skin. bubbles bubbles so many bubbles! as an expedia member you earn points on your travels, and that's on top of your airline miles. so you can go and see... or taste or do absolutely nothing
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