tv Don Lemon Tonight CNN July 13, 2022 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
hey, thanks for watching everybody. i will be back tomorrow. don lemon tonight starts right now. don lemon. hey, don. hi, i will see tomorrow. i will see margaret's store lock forma president trump to call in number of the white house staff who was talking to the january 6th committee. that's in addition to the person that committee cochair liz cheney talked about yesterday at the hearings with the sports staffer was not somebody who routinely communicated with him. he was concerned about the content that's according to sources. informed their attorney. this is a big development. we will have a lots more in just a moment and we have a reporting on that.
people up in washington will give us the various latest on that. the big question about january 6th is, who is going to stop it from happening again? who will stop it from happening again? is it you? is it the committee? maybe it's the republicans? who will stop it from happening again? who will stand up and the next time defend our free and fair election. to defend democracy from the lies that can take it all down? what we are hearing from the january 6th committee, the testimony from eyewitnesses who were shocked by what they saw and heard behind closed doors in the trump white house, who were pressured by the president determined to hold under pressure no matter what it took the fake electors. the wild conspiracy theories. the mob that stormed the capitol. none of that is about the past. it's about, what could happen
the next time. if nobody stands up to stop it? should have put the media in that. the media, journalist? that's why it matters for the committee to follow the investigation wherever it leads. that's what matters for journalists who follow the investigation wherever elise finch we are learning that committees looking to provide transcripts to the justice department, right now they're especially interested in the testimony on the fake electors scheme. next week, another hearing is in the works. the committee says it will add to the case against the former president. focusing on 187 minutes as the capitol was under attack and donald j trump did nothing to stop it. the committee is not ruling out more here. >> never say never in this process. there are people coming forward
all the time. >> never say never. people coming forward of time. that was gaskin. time is running out. the midterms are less than four months away. can you believe it? what happens in november? what happens if the gop takes control of all of this? right? some republicans like the congressman in arizona took evers to object to the election. into debunked election fraud allegations from, i guess you could call it a movie. 2000 meals. i think we talked about it? a movie about wild in totally baseless claims. trumps attorney bill barr mock the whole thing during the deposition. >> my opinion then and now, is that the election was not stolen by fraud.
and i haven't seen anything since the election that changes my mind on that. including the 2000 meals movie. >> he laughed at it. like i said, the question is, who will stand up next time? i will tell you who could have -- mainstream republicans, who knew better. conservative media knew better. mainstream media knew the election lies, or just that. lies. they knew. far too many of them did not speak up. they did not tell the truth. that matters. stephen errors -- he's a convicted capitol writer who breached the capitol and said he might not have gone there if so many within the trump circle already knew. >> we have also talked about
today and and previous hearings, the extent to which the president himself was told the election had been stolen. by his justice department, his white house camp counsel, his campaign. would it have made a difference to you to know that president trump himself had no evidence of widespread fraud? >> definitely. you know? who knows, i might not have come down here? >> then, there is this -- the soundbite from yesterday's hearing. the day before the attack on capitol hill. congresswoman debbie lesko of arizona saying this -- >> we also have, quite honestly, trump supporters who actually believe that we are going to overturn the election. when that doesn't happen, it most likely will not happen, they are going to go nuts. >> she said, they most likely were not going to overturn the
election. yet. the very next day, january 6th, she voted to do exactly that. she was right about one thing though, trump supporters went nuts. there was a time when republicans knew exactly who was responsible for what happened on january 6th. >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob writers. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. these facts require immediate action of president trump. except his share of responsibility. the brewing unrest. ensure president-elect biden was able to successfully begin his term. >> let's go to more videotape. >> do you feel that the january
6th committee release has shown enough information that donald trump was personally responsible he for what happened that day? >> i think ultimately, answering that question leads to a number of other questions that i think are best settled by transferring whatever information the january 6th commission has to the doj and let them settle it. >> a simple, no, would suffice. after all this, still will not say that donald trump bears responsibility for january 6th. back to my original question -- really, who's going to stop it from happening again? i want to go to cnn ryan noble, dana bash. tell us more about you reporting that jump had a call a member of the white house support staff who was talking
with the january 6th committee. what do you know? >> our colleagues were able to officially confirm tonight, and we want to make clear this is the same person liz cheney talked about at the end of the january 6th committee hearing on tuesday. they were so concerned about this interaction that they referred it to the department of justice. they feared it could be an example of witness intimidation. we are learning more tonight about why they have that concern. this individual was somebody who worked in the white house for separate so, not a member of the political unit of the white house. but, a professional staff member who was there to support the service as necessary at the white house. it is someone who would not be accustomed to receiving a phone call out of the blue from someone like the former president, donald trump it was someone who knew donald trump, but didn't have a personal relationship with him in a way that they would just get a phone call unprompted. the timing of this call is important, as well. it came a couple days after the bombshell testimony from
cassidy hutchinson. the former aide to the white house chief of staff, mark meadows. we were told that this individual could collaborate parts of the testimony. that's why they were so alarmed when i got the call by trump. he immediately passed the information to the attorney. they give the information to the committee and they handed it over to the doj. there were a lot of questions, don, after liz cheney made that statement yesterday. what about a run a phone call would lead you to believe this is witness intimidation? the committee did not fill out a lot of information. this is the information we are able to confirm tonight. the timing of the phone call, the individual went to, the relationship they had with the former president, that raised a lot of red flags for this person, their attorney, and the committee. >> is that it wasn't the same person, to your understanding, it is the same person? >> yes. >> thank you for correcting me.
>> dana, this raises a lot of question about what this person may know if they're getting a call from a former president. no? >> absolutely. this person that ryan just mentioned, we understand, has corroborating evidence. at least can corroborate. maybe not evidence, but perhaps, witnessed something that cassidy hutchinson testified to last week, under oath. she testified about lots of different scenarios. lots of different events that she witnessed. what the committee has been doing, is saying publicly, well, we have a way to corroborate. our understanding who the former president put a phone call into, is one of those who can help corroborate.
like brian said, one of the really important things to remember here, when there was a mad scramble to figure out who liz cheney was talking about? they understandably, the unclear thing, how would they know? how would they know what the president was trying to do? how would they know that he was actually trying to tamper, just because they saw a phone call or heard that he was calling? ryan just explained that the reporting shows that is because this is not somebody who would have any reason to hear from donald trump. >> dana, can i dig in a little deeper that this person could potentially corroborate aspects of hutchinson's testimony? what aspects? including scenarios where other people's can corroborate? >> just remember, she testified for many, many hours. she told many stories about different advance that she
witnessed. she was mark meadows right-hand woman. mark meadows isn't talking. so, the idea is that there are other people who were there, who the committee believes they can get information from. who was inside the white house. as ryan said, this particular person who got the phone call, according to the committee, according to what liz cheney said publicly yesterday, our understanding now based on reporting was a member of the white house support staff. >> ryan, with the new reporting, the committee has given this information to the doj. is it clear if it will go anywhere? how can something be witness tampering if the person never picked up the phone? possibly intimidation of some sort? >> we don't know the first breath of what happened.
the reporting that we have tonight illuminates a big part that we did not understand. what this person's role was and why they were worried that the former president called them out of the blue a couple of days after hutchinson is testimony? they also had informal conversations with this witness. they have not deposed this witness. they have not had a lengthy deposition transcription behind closed doors which would put a person in a position where they could not perjure themselves. you're not allowed to lie to congress. it would be an informal conversation. we know they have these a lot. there could be more information i came to the communication that we don't know about. there could also be other information around the timing of the phone call. perhaps other pieces of communication that happened that would leave them to believing there is more of this being witness tampering. i think the committee did not want to make the judgment for themselves. they wanted to remove whatever
work that they were doing, they obviously have a vested interest in their investigation. they wanted to move that from their workflow and hand that over to prosecutors who have been understanding of the law and would be able to pick up this particular piece of the investigation. to determine if it is criminal and tiffany. we don't know how the doj plans to handle that information. they have not responded to our request of what they plan to do that. even though we eliminated so much more from what we knew yesterday, there is still a lot that we don't know about this particular situation. >> thank you, bo. my question is -- dana, go ahead. >> i want to add one thing. even before this new reporting, pretty much right away after liz cheney said what she said at the end of yesterday's hearing, i was getting messages from people in and around the former president that he was
really, really, agitated. think about it, there's a lot he carbon agitated about in yesterday's hearing. they testified that they had a text message chain from his former campaign manager. saying, he basically has blood on his hands. it was a lasting and the hearing suggesting that he did something that was untoward and may be illegal enough that they gave it to the doj? i am told that that was the thing that sent donald trump through the roof. i think that is very telling. >> if he didn't do anything, why doesn't he talked to the committee? that would clear some things up for the committee and everybody else. thank you, lord. my question, why is the committee of this information as that of the doj?
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every day, something comes up. landslide of new information about the january 6th. revealing this week, including the new semi, former president trump tried calling a member of the staff who was talking to the january 6th committee. questions are growing about what is happening at the doj? democratic senator from minnesota, amy klobuchar. thanks for joining. >> good to be on again. i need to get to your reaction about the news tonight about trump placing this call to the staffer? someone he would not usually communicate. with. >> i certainly hope that they
speak with him. to me you have a line employee working the white house, doing their job. you find out that the former president is calling them on the phone. we don't know the details. your great reporters just pointed out. the fact is, witness intimidation, tampering, is a federal crime. if you have a corrupt intent in trying to persuade someone, sounds familiar. sounds like someone we know, don. the focus of it is to try to intimidate them in terms of their testimony. that's a crime. of course it has to be looked into. we will not know the exact facts. the committee is doing the right thing and having this information over to the justice department. i will say, this last hearing, there were things i didn't know. the thought that he's been told, we did know this by the interregional that there was no fraud. by his lawyer, cipollone. he was in the middle of the
five hour crazy meeting where he talks about federally seizing voting machines. since out the tweet, when he knows his own lawyer, campaign staff, attorney general barr, told him there was no fraud. he still goes out and basically decides he's going to tell people to go wild. get there on january 6. that puts the series of events in the place. which led to the insurrection at the capitol. i thought that was really damning testimony, yesterday. >> listen, there's a lot coming out. as a former mentor, said, no, dan. you do not backwards. you know what that means? doesn't seem that this information, it should be the doj pushing the committee instead of the other way around. soon they already have this information? they are investigative unit of
the government. the leading far behind? >> first of all, we know -- i'm a former prosecutor. they have charged over 850 people. i know from the cases we worked on, from those people, when you charge people from the bottom up, you get information. you use that and you use that a new user, to get to higher- level people. unfortunately, we don't know everything they are doing. what we do know, both things have to act in concert. in my mind, you got the investigations going on. you also got a public hearing of reckoning. i think a lot of people thought, this is over. we don't want to hear about this again. inside, i think very clearly this committee, bipartisan committee, has made it really clear why this still matters to our democracy. donald trump is still out there periods to alter endorsing candidates. more and more people are learning this, they've artie had issues with him.
we have seen that in the polls. we see that in the georgia race a while back. we are starting to see that again as people remember the threat to our democracy. i think these things going on in the family. you are asking, what can we do to make sure this doesn't happen again? both of those things have to happen. the reckoning and the doj action. the other big thing we have to do, bo. we have to vote for candidates that believe in democracy. that is not that far away with elections coming up in november. >> think you are talking about that. i want to turn to the, if you would allow? the dispatch reporting that a man has been arrested and charged with the of a 10-year- old girl who had to go to indiana for an abortion. president biden brought first this case msps.
i want to get your reaction? >> for anyone that doubted this and were listening to those sources or saw something on loud that doubted the story, it's in black and white. this man a 10-year-old girl. this girl got pregnant. what kind of country are we living and right now, where you require a 10-year-old girl, because of the supreme court. because of justices that donald trump put in place, because extremists justices were put on that court, what kind of life do we live in right now where this 10-year-old girl had to go to another state to get an abortion? i think the vast the majority of americans who are ready, 80% support codifying roe v wade. depending on what the numbers
are, they would never want this to happen. that is the result. the patchwork of laws that we will see across the country. women and girls have less rights than their moms and grandmas. for anyone that doubted this story, it's right there in a criminal complaint. this happen. >> you are cosponsoring the legislation that safeguarded a woman's right to cross state lines. >> exactly. this is something catherine cortes mastro -- this would allow women to safely travel back and forth to seek reproductive care. without being in fear of being prosecuted. by the way, there are bills introduced in states like missouri that would make helping someone to cross lines be a crime. that's why it's so important with these protections in place for >> thank you, senator. >> thanks, don. i look forward to seeing you again. so in more come on the news that x president trump called
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sources telling cnn the former president trump try to call a member of the white house sports staff. now someone who routinely communicated with him. he was concerned about the contact, according to sources. he informed their attorney. georgia lieutenant governor jeff duncan. ron, let's start with you.
you heard what i said about this person. why on earth with the former president be calling this person now? >> it certainly out of the ordinary. we heard from ryan and dana, a big reason why, this person would be in position to corroborate the testimony that we heard about what he was doing. in particular, potentially on the day of january 6. this is the way donald trump has operated his entire life. he is pushed every volunteer of the in the system. what we are watching, i think this is another reminder of all the big overall point that the committee is making to the american public. not whether this guy committed a crime, they are making a case for. also, as of someone who you feel you want to trust with the power of the presidency, given the way he used it when he had it? now, even after. when he doesn't have it.
>> he believes that he should. i want to get your take on this, lieutenant governor. watching this from georgia. it's a red state, still. what do you make of what's happening with the committee and the former presidents alleged actions are? >> i just got bits and pieces on the way to the studio. some information coming out on his activity. i think it goes to show the pattern that continue to develop during the process of how granulated donald trump operator. we certainly felt that growing group, grassroots operating during the post operation time. i think the committee has outperformed a lot of people's expectations. they are not taking a partisan angle. it's fact-finding. the testimony has been from republicans. i think it's interesting to watch this play out. by the time we get to january 6, how few people in donald trump's inner circle were actually with them. they were in his air, saying
this is a good idea, this is what you should be done. it feels like a lot of the energy was being pushed by him. >> do you think they will be able to connect back to the pressure in georgia? >> i don't know? i will let the lawyers, i'm not a lawyer by trade, i'm going to look at that and can you to do the best we can. it's been traveling to watch. it's also been troubling to see how coordinated and planning went into the lead up from the november election, through january 6th unfortunate events. it certainly troublesome. >> despite all the evidence and testimony from mostly republican witness, showing trumps skiing to stay in power, you still have gop senators like thom tillis who is saying trump is responsible for january 6th. wises so hard for people to do that? >> the argument that so many republicans may, they can't come out and say that what he
did was wrong. they fear the base. as i said before, during watergate, richard nixon approval rating upon republicans fell 40 per soy points, because there were so many republican elective issues -- >> that did take time. >> it did happen. they stuck out and said that what he did was wrong. look, there have been very few republicans willing to do that now. that is an interactive process for you see for example the polling today, the new york times poll, obviously a large share of republicans continued to say things like, the election was stolen. trump was within her rights. it was a legitimate protest that got out of hand. what the party will be willing -- >> but, again, even in this
pulling, there are 25% of republicans who understand that what happened was wrong. it was dangerous. they have a lot of leverage in the party, if they will use it. they continue to vote, give their votes to republicans who enable and amplified trumps big lies, all of the pressure in the party will be toward standing with him, rather than standing up for the constitution. >> i find it interesting. you have people like liz cheney and a few other republicans who are sending up. you are one of the lawmakers who set up to trump, early. you called out his pressure campaign on states like georgia. fast forward to where we are now, would you have expect to to see more republicans joining you and liz cheney and adam kissinger? >> i certainly think there is a growing number of republicans. is painful to watch. as part of the healing process for republicans. i think it's also a big time for change in america.
the new york times on monday, over two thirds of democrats do not want joe biden to run again. the last two presidents in our country are now going to be not at the top of the ticket. i don't think we actually see them run again as president. the democrats will wise up and find some more more competent. the republicans will wake up and find someone more focused on solving problems, instead of the ego. hopefully that will be better for america. >> we will see. i also found it frustrating, this is interesting, and perhaps one of you can respond to this? democrats are so happy with liz cheney and adam, and the moment they say something conservative, liz cheney supported the law for banning abortion. democrats got mad at her. you can't expect her to all of a sudden become a democrat. republicans are going to be republicans reconsidered river -- that will fall republicans
are not going to become democrats. >> it would be great if we could get back to the point about policies. we are at a point where a big portion of the republican party, the dominant fashion in the party, is not committed to democracy as the way that we have known. there are election tires on the ballot for key offices. republican nominees. pennsylvania, nevada, michigan, minnesota. still to come maybe in arizona. wisconsin. lieutenant governor's successor. the party nominated to succeed the lieutenant governor, is an open election to buyer. we are in a different place at the moment. it would be great to get back to those arguments. i don't think americans want either of us, either party to be in the extremes. i think they want people to solve actual problems. we spent seven minutes into an interview and we have not talked about the highest inflation ever read at least,
and my lifetime. people are worried about gas and groceries and small businesses. that's what leaders should be talking about. thus the issues that matters. >> january 6th does matter. >> we don't solve problems, we should take our medicine as republicans and democrats. get to work and get things done for americans. that's what we are hired to do. >> we were talking about what you said. some of it. >> in queue, i appreciate it. resident joe biden ran in 2012. uniting a divided country. he's admitting that he has worked to do. .
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talking about why he ran for president and whether he has accomplished his goals? listen. >> i was running for three reasons. to restore the soul of america. to get back to who we are as a people. the way we talk to one another. the way we treat one another. the second thing, to read build the backbone of this country. the middle class. when they do well, everybody does. thirdly, to unite the country with i still have not accomplished the third piece. that's alternative. >> cnn political commentator and former obama senior advisor, david axelrod. >> don, good to see you. >> biden is facing a bad economy. a war overseas. major fault lines. fear over gun rights. abortion rights. how is he going to unite the country in the next two years?
>> yeah. is going to be difficult. i think right now the task is to create a choice for the country. if he goes into the fall election with this set of facts, or the set of indices, it will be a difficult november. he has to create a choice for people and make clear what the republican party is offering. that by its very nature involves being a little more contentious. more comparative. more challenging. you know, i have no doubt that this is what in his heart. by his very nature, he is a conciliatory person. he has worked across party lines for half a century. >> is that realistic right now? i'm not saying that the country shouldn't be united, but i think the country wants to be. i think people are dug in on both sides.
>> don, i think a lot of people in this country who want to see people working together. i think there are a lot of people in this country who are aligned by the shrill voices. i also think that the parties themselves are not in that place. the activists, particularly the politicians, are not in that place. joe biden was elected because he said for that. that's what the country voted for. right now, some of those things that he most values, are not what is needed. he needs to be more contentious. he needs to really draw the choice of the people. i will say this, say what you will about cooperation bipartisanship and so on. he's got more done than anybody thought he would. the infrastructure built he obviously got the rescue act. he got the gun belt. he got some things done. i think it deserves credit for that. there is a big stark choice now. it goes to the tone and tenor
of the parties. what the republican party stands for. the republican party that exist today is not the one that joe biden grew up with all those decades in the united states senators two certainly right. i don't know if he was elected because of unity. i think people wanted sanity. they wanted a steady hand. i'm not sure if unity, how high up on the shirt the unity was in bowling. i want you to take a look at item. what he is saying about a rematch with tron. >> are you predicting a biden rematch in 2024. >> cannot predict him. i would not be disappointed. >> you would not be? you look forward to that? >> no. the one thing i know about american politics, there is no way to predict what's going to happen. i'm not even halfway through my term yet.
there is a lot of room to figure out what's going to happen. >> listen, one thing he said is true. it's hard to predict. 64% of democrats say they want a different nominee in 2024. he has an uphill battle with his own party before he can potentially battle trumped for the white house again. >> don, look, discontent is not heard of among democrats or republicans when the president is doing well in the polls. when you're heading to a fall campaign. we felt some of that when i was in the obama white house. the fundamental thing i would be worried about, 54% is a large number. also, when they were asking people to volunteer what it was that the objected to about biden, the people said -- the third of them, the largest number said, age. he was too old. that's not a political problem. that's an actuary problem. he's not going to get younger. we know that. that's a political prediction one can make.
so, that's the thing that he has to confront when he makes his decision. he's got time to make this decision. yes, partisans presidents have fought back. none of them were in their 80s when they did it. that is a concern that he has to address. you know, i think it's frankly difficult one. >> reagan was not a spring chicken. >> reagan was younger when he left office than the president as now. so -- >> he's having issues. >> there were concerns about reagan at the end of his term. listen, i think joe biden, i think he is in command of what is doing. we have seen it on ukraine and other issues. he has offered strong leadership. but, you know, when you are going to face the voters and asked them at 82 for another term and you will be closer to
90 than 80 at the end of that term, that is a very difficult case to make. ultimately, he's going to have to confront that question. it is not like other presidencies. >> even with the headwinds, he still leads strong. three points. 44% to 44%. with all the bad news of the economy that he has now. thank you, david. i really appreciate her >> nancy pelosi calls it trading a trigger for a civil rights hero. mary facing a federal general in the capitol. marking the first for a american statutory hall. i will t tell you all about tha next. minions: the rise of gru, only in theaters.
you should learn french because it makes you sound smart. i got you. you know what else is smart, alec? donating to shriners hospitals for children. i thought you'd say that. and you know what? you're right. just think what it would be like if people didn't support shriners hospitals for children every month. i don't even want to think about it. i know so many kids whose lives are completely different because of the specialized care shriners hospitals for children provides. yeah. like sebastian, who can stand now? yeah. and the best part is, it's so easy to become a monthly supporter. all you need to do is call the number on your screen or go to loveshriners.org your support will make sure our amazing doctors and nurses keep helping kids like us who need them now and in the future. alec, do you think i could try this part? go for it, buddy.
when you call right now. and your $19 a month only $0.63 a day, we'll send you your very own love to the rescue blanket as a reminder of all the kids you are helping every day. your monthly support makes a huge difference for kids like us. so please call now or go to loveshriners.org to give. on behalf of all the kids you're helping, alec and and i just want to say - thank you. you got that right. thank you so much. please call the number on your screen or go to loveshriners.org with your monthly support right away. your support shows you care too. history in the making at the capitol today. maybe i should say her story. the unveiling of the statue of mary mcleod, and in statuary
hall. the first black american honored with the state commission statue in the hall! can you believe? 2022, the first african american. this one is from florida, it replaces a statue of a confederate general. born in 1875, the daughter of formerly enslaved people. she was an adviser to five presidents and an educator. her statue includes a cap and gown. she was the founder of a school for black children, that later became the college. and lane the university. there are statues of other distinguished black americans in the capital. such as martin luther king junior and rose are parks. she is the first any black american to be commissioned by a state. and directed in statuary hall. the fact is, there are still statues of confederates inside the capitol for no. first on cnn, we're learning trump try to call a member of
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first on cnn. sources say the former president tried to call a member of the white house support staff who was talking to the january 6th select committee. this staffer isn't someone who routinely spoke to trump. and was concerned about the contact. so informed their attorney. also tonight, we are learning the committee is providing the doj with witness transcripts the trump's fake elector plot. that is according to chairman bennie thompson. this was central to the former presidents plan to overturn the election. a member the select committee, joining me, now. thank you congresswoman, i appreciate you joining us. is there anything that you can add to our reporting tonight on this witness