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tv   CNN Newsroom With Alisyn Camerota and Victor Blackwell  CNN  July 22, 2022 11:00am-12:00pm PDT

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hello, everyone. i'm alisyn camerota. welcome to "cnn newsroom." >> i'm victor blackwell. good to be with you. today president trump and former vice president pence will hold dueling rallies in arizona. >> the hostility between these two former allies is coming into sharper focus. thanks in part to the january 6th hearings. last night in prime-time the january 6th committee presented new testimony about trump's deep grievances toward pence for performing his lawful, constitutional duty and certifying the 2020 election. we learned last night that trump's last words on january 6th before heading into the white house residence were, mike
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pence let me down. >> the panel also cited witnessed who described how trump watched tv for hours as the violent assault unfolded and the committee's republican vice-chair said the dam has begun to break as more pieces of the puzzle fall into place and new witnesses step forward. >> can a president who is willing to make the choices donald trump made during the violence of january 6th ever be trusted with any position of authority in our great nation again? >> cnn's manu raju is on capitol hill for us. what do we know about the focus of this committee for future hearings? >> reporter: well, they haven't decided exactly yet how they will split-up those future hearings in september. the committee members told me last night those are still issues that they are still trying to sort out. they plan to use the next month in august when congress is on recess to have more testimony from witnesses behind closed doors. liz cheney indicating that
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subpoenas have been issued and committee members indicating that depositions will occur. they plan to put together that report, the all-important report detailing all of the committee's findings beyond what we've seen in the hearings, but all the other interviews and record they've produced that test the ultimate conclusions they reach. they will be detailed in that report that they are now in the process of putting together. in talking to some of the committee members last night, they also said a criminal case has been made for the justice department, if they were to pursue it going forward. adam kinzinger, when i asked him last night if he believes donald trump has exposure, he said he does. >> i think the president certainly has criminal exposure. i'm not the prosecutor, i'm not doj, but i certainly think if you look at what we've presented tonight and in all these hearings that cannot be acceptable from a president of the united states. like the worst thing we can do is put out something that says the president is above the law
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and can do this again, because i guarantee it will happen again. >> reporter: the members are also indicating they have not reached a conclusion about whether to actually make a criminal referral to the justice department to potentially prosecute donald trump. that's an issue of debate. of course, the justice department does not need that referral, but nevertheless, that is one of the many issues they are going to sort out over the next several weeks as they head into the summer and into the fall, since the investigation not yet done. >> manu, former president trump's former deputy white house chief of staff, his former secret service lead agent, they both now have lawyers. what do you know about that? >> reporter: that is tony ornato and robert engel, the white house former deputy chief of staff, as well as donald trump's lead secret service agent. both have retained private counsel, who is according to one of the committee members. this comes as the committee itself is investigating everything that happened with the secret service, including those missing text messages that were gone from january 5th and
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january 6th, figuring out exactly why that happened. but also what we've learned through these committee hearings, that donald trump wanted to go to the capitol on january 6th and was irate, in the words of some witnesses, about the fact that he was not allowed to go to the capitol, despite his pleas to do so. cassidy hutchinson had testified that there was a confrontation in the motorcade as donald trump demanded going forward. yesterday we heard testimony from a metro police officer, washington, d.c. metro police officer, mark robinson, who was in the motorcade and corroborated parts of cassidy hutchinson's testimony. >> the only description i received was that the president was upset and that he was adamant about going to the capitol and there was a heated discussion about that. >> when you say heated, is that your word or is that the word that was described by the ts agent?
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>> that was the word described by the ts agent, meaning that the president was upset and he was saying there was a heated argument or discussion about going to the capitol. >> reporter: so this is one of the issues that the committee plans to sort out over the next several weeks. one of the holes in their investigation, exactly what the secret service knew, what it was doing and what those communications were. the question is, can the committee get to the bottom of it, guys. >> manu raju on capitol hill. let's bring in ellie honig, assistant district attorney for the district of new york. welcome to you both. there was a lot of really compelling elements, evidence that was revealed last night, but in the conversation of potential criminal case, is this about an outtake, a tweet, an exchange, or about the arc they're building? >> i think it's about the arc. i think last night was the final
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chapter in at least the first part of the arc. the key phrase we kept hearing last night was dereliction of duty, meaning essentially did nothing, or more precisely, refused to do anything. but you have to look at that in a broader context. remember all the hearings we heard before, the pressure on doj, the pressure on the vice president, the pressure on state and local election officials. and i think the case that the committee is making, and perhaps they're hoping doj will make, is that it's not just that donald trump did nothing while the capitol was attacked, it's that he did nothing while these events that he deliberately set in motion played out. and i think that's got to catch the eye of prosecutors. >> olivia, one of the, i think, really compelling revelations last night were the outtakes, the outtakes from january 6th of president trump struggling mightily through having to make this statement, and it's a moment for americans to kind of see behind the curtain of what was happening when they were just trying to get -- this was on january 7th.
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let me just play that for you. >> i would like to begin my addressing the heinous attack yesterday. yesterday is a hard word for me. take the word yesterday out because it doesn't work. heinous attack on our country. say on our country. want to say that? my only goal was to ensure the integrity of the vote. my only goal was to ensure the integrity of the vote. >> i mean, not only his behavior there, but the contortions that the people around him are going through. what did you see there, olivia? >> well, i think the reality is everyone in the circle had just lived through what was a very tragic awful 24 hours that they saw play out at the u.s. capitol and knowing that mike pence's life was in grave danger and the
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leadership of the country, and here you have the current president struggling, struggling to really address this because he doesn't want to is the reality i see there. he knows that those people were there in support of him and that's what mattered. it didn't matter that lives were lost and officers were hurt, even though he claimed during his tenure that he was pro law enforcement. all of that being in full focus, that he, himself, watched himself on tv, didn't matter. for him, it was bigger than that because he was trying to figure out how he was going to continue to support that movement and continue to support the lie of the stolen election. he was not going to walk it back. >> i saw you nodding during that. >> what i think was most interesting about the outtakes, obviously there's silly stuff in there and we've all struggled to say words from time to time, in
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fairness. the phrase that donald trump refused to say was the actions of the people who stormed the capitol were illegal. that was the first outtake we saw. originally the script called for him to say the illegal acts, and he stops and says i'm not going to say illegal. that, to me, is really important when it goes to his frame of mind. he's not even willing to say assaulting police officers, smashing windows at the capitol is illegal. that tells me that they were doing exactly what he hoped and wanted. >> one more thing, i know that you think that one of the most damning revelations is this tweet at 2:24 on january 6th. this is a tweet from president trump. he says, mike pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our country and our constitution, giving states a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones. blah. blah. blah. the point is what? >> we've known about that tweet but now we have it in full context. we are an hour and change into the 187 minutes. at 2:24 the capitol has been stormed, there is violence and we learned yesterday that donald
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trump knows the capitol has been stormed, knows that crowd is committing acts of violence, and sarah matthews said, we were all begging mark meadows and others to tell him, you have to calm this down. what does he do? the exact opposite. sarah matthews called it gas on the fire. >> olivia, one of the more compelling elements that resonated with me was the walkie-talkie exchanges between those who were watching what was happening at the capitol and those who were there. this is right after former president trump's 2:28 tweet telling people to support law enforcement, they're on our side. let's watch. >> trump just tweeted, please support our capitol police, they are on our side, do not harm them. >> that's saying a lot by what he didn't say. he didn't say not to do anything to the congressmen. >> well, he did not ask them to stand down. he just said stand by the capitol police. >> so we've known for some time
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they were taking direction from the president's tweets, but here they are parsing and taking some endorsement from what the president is not saying. >> yeah, that's sickening to hear. i attended that hearing and i've got to tell you that that was probably the hardest one for me to get through yet, to hear that, the kind of exchanges that were going on at the time. all while people are fighting for their lives. i was sitting with the families of the fallen officers, i can't tell you the emotional in the room and how it was at the time to hear that and knowing that this was going on in the background, and the tremendous national security failure as well, by the way, by the president of the united states that the government institution is being attacked here, the leadership are being attacked, and this is what's going on in the background. and i'll tell you, hearing the knowledge of the secret service family members, saying good-bye
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to their family and trying to figure out how they were going to keep mike pence and his family alive in that moment, i don't know how any american can give donald trump a pass for that. again, that is still so striking to me and i think it's very dangerous, because, again, this is someone who is looking at running for the oval office again and he has clearly shown that he has no respect for any of the leadership in the country. it is about him and i think that's something that we as americans really need to kind of reckon with and decide if that's the kind of country that we want to be to the rest of the world. >> i mean, not only that, no respect for law enforcement, obviously. olivia, i really appreciate you saying all of that, because i was thinking about that. the trauma of having to sit through all of this. it's valuable for it to come to light, but you're speaking so eloquently about how traumatic it is to have to hear all of
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that again. olivia, i really appreciate you being here. ellie honig, we're out of time. thank you both very much for your insights. a new exclusive update about the potentially deleted secret service text messages. cnn has learned that secret service investigators had focused on a group of personnel whose phones indicated missing messages. >> cnn law enforcement correspondent whitney wilde joins us now. what have you learned? >> reporter: sources tell us that of 24 secret service agents whose text messages were requested by the inspector general last year, ten had metadata to show that there were text messages exchanged around january 5th and 6th, 2021, but the content of those text messages was lost due to a data migration. investigators at the secret service were scrutinizing the 24 devices and determined ten had no text messages at all, three had only personal text messages, one person, as we've reported, did save a text message change, and, again, ten devices showed
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there was some activity. secret service investigators learned all of this because the house select committee had issued a subpoena last week, last friday through the secret service, demanding records after the inspector general complained thursday that he couldn't get text messages -- last thursday, rather, that he couldn't get text messages from key agents due to a data migration that launched before his probe began. >> so what are they doing now to determine if these ten phones have relevant messages? >> reporter: they were doing a rigorous probe, according to a letter sent from the srkt service to a house select committee on july 19th, they had planned to conduct forensic exams of any devices that were used to identify individuals, as well as conduct additional follow-up interviews with identified users to determine if messages were stored in locations that were not already searched by the secret service, victor and alisyn. >> so what happens now? >> well, now these efforts by the secret service have ground to a halt. as cnn first reported yesterday, the ig sent them a letter
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basically saying you need to stop in your tracks, and this came after the ig had complained to the hill about stonewalling from the secret service. the secret service tried to abide by the house select subpoena that was prompted by the ig's complaints. then it was wednesday that the ig, again, told them stop what you're doing because they were concerned that any efforts by the secret service to investigate itself could interfere with an ig investigation, which as cnn first reported yesterday, the ig's office is now describing as criminal. >> the latest for us from washington. thank you very much. let's go to arizona now and these duelling rallies. former vice president mike pence is set to stump for republican candidate karen taylor robeson. >> but former president trump will hold a rally to support kari lake in what he describes as the entire trump ticket. kristen holmes is in pea your.
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give us the latest there. >> reporter: this is really not just about a split between trump and pence, but it's really about another one of these republican primaries in which there are six of the republican party. on one side you have the group that really wants to continue talking about the 2020 election, they promote donald trump's lies about the 2020 election's conspiracy theories. on the other side you have people who just want to move forward, get away from the 2020 election. the latter camp is where you find former vice president mike pence, as well as outgoing governor doug ducey, also a republican. you'll remember that he faced trump's ire for not overturning the results of the arizona election in 2020. so both pence and deucy will be behind me just in a few points and they are squarely behind robson. she is the established favorite. she was appointed to the board of regents in arizona. they are falling in line behind her. on the other side you have kari
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lake, a former tv news anchor, who has made campaigning on trump's election lies the centerpiece of her campaign and she refuses to say that joe biden is the legitimate president. what we're looking at here, i want to talk about the two sects. i talked to two voters before i got on the air. one said they were tired of talking about the 2020 election. the other one said they were here to hear about robson because they don't think she cares enough about the 2020 election. now, all of this, again, as you said, setting up what might be a preview for 2024. we have been hearing these rumblings, hints out of pence world that he is planning a potential run for president in 2024. on the other side of that, we know from donald trump himself that he has said it's not a matter of if, but when he makes that announcement to run. so a showdown between these two essentially people who were
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thick as thieves colleagues in the white house. the two men have not spoken to each other in more than a year. >> really interesting context. kristen holmes, thank you. there was a scary moment on the campaign trail. a new york gubernatorial candidate attacked during a speech. we're going to speak to the man there who helped take down the attacker. >> and president biden's covid symptoms have apparently improved. we'll have the latest on his condition with details from his doctor ahead. like many families, the auburns value time spent together. to share wisdom... i got some of my gold before i came to this country. i got some of my gold d before you passed the bread. encourage one another... i can buy gold for this?! you can buy gold for this. and talk about life's wins and misses. responsibly soururced like my gold but not responsibly cooked. because at the end of the day, nothing keeps it all together quite like - gold. visit to see how gold is everyone's asset. hey, i just got a text from my sister.
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>> this is our last stand for new york and there's only one option . >> police say the suspect showed signs of intoxication and approached zeldin while wearing self defense knuckles, saying, you're done. he was charged with attempted assault and released on his own recognizance. we have one of the people who helped to restrain the also running for office in the new york state assembly. thank you so much for being here. just describe what you saw and heard and what happened on that stage last night. >> thank you for having me. so we were about an hour into the rally itself, about 15 minutes into congressman
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zeldin's speech, when a guy who had just walked in a few minutes earlier, kind of stumbled in, jumped up onto the stage. i could see that he was going onto the stage. i ran behind the stage because i couldn't get to where he was. didn't know exactly what he was up to, didn't know if he was coming up to argue with the congressman or maybe give him a hug, which i've seen. and then he pulled this weapon out of his pocket or off the right side of his body and swung at the congressman towards his face or throat and said, you're done. and at that time the congressman blocked his first strike, as he pulled back and tried to strike the second time i was able to wrap him up in a bear hug and get him down to the ground, as i think your viewers just saw. we were able to restrain him. i got the weapon away.
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the lieutenant governor, allison es esponito was able to get the weapon away from him. fortunately, no one was seriously injured. >> joe, you were there. you're the person, who we watched this slowed-down video, you're the person in the red t-shirt. i mean, right there, you're already getting up on stage. i know that you're a former marine combat vet. i mean, was your antenna up for danger? how were you able to so quickly be in the right position? >> so when he walked in, we were already an hour into the rally and he walked in kind of out of nowhere. it was very positive, energetic feeling in the air. when he walked by, just something felt different and i actually watched him walk up to the edge of the stage. there were several other people there. i saw him stop. he seemed fine. and then i was still kind of
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watching a few minutes later when he jumped up on the stage. something just seemed off about him. he was stumbling a bit. i'm not sure if he was actually intoxicated or possibly experiencing a mental health crisis of some sort. so my day job, if you will, is a veterans advocate. i'm the executive director for amvets at the national level and mental health has been our number one priority for a long time. there's a crisis, unfortunately, in the veterans community. it turned out that he is a veteran and he was incoherent when he was speaking, but the two things i could understand that he said was at the beginning when he said, you're done, to congressman zeldin, and at the end, after i had been holding him on the ground for five minutes and he was being handcuffed, he turned to me and said he had served in the iraq war. and my mind-set instantly changed from making sure this guy doesn't hurt anyone or
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myself back to veterans advocate, and i let him know at that time, there are services and care out there and if he's experiencing mental health issues i want to help him get those services he needs. and i told him he can contact me. i said you've done something very serious here tonight, and when you're done dealing with that, i want you to reach out to me and we'll make sure you get what you need. >> that's so generous. it's so good you were there on so many levels. not only did you take him down, but then you were able to have that generous exchange and offer him help. is this just an isolated incident? we are seeing more political violence in this country against judges, against politicians. do you think that police need to be at all of these campaign rallies now? >> i know congressman zeldin has said that they will be in the future. going into the rally last night, it wasn't my decision, but i didn't feel that it was necessary, up until that moment.
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really, i didn't imagine anything like this happening. but you are unfortunately correct, we're seeing more of this and i think more violence in society in general at this point. >> joe chenelly, thank you for your service. thank you for telling us this story. good thing you were there. >> thank you very much. not much relief in sight for much of the country. look at these temperatures. scorching all week and it's going into the weekend. what you need to know, that's ahead. >> plus, there have been at least six shark biting incidents, i call them attacks, along the new york coast. >> they don't mean it, really. >> they're just tasting. this is just in the last three weeks. we're going to speak to a survivor from one of the latest attacks. oh, gosh, that's his foot.
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. we're getting new information about how president biden is doing after being diagnosed with covid. his physician issued a letter this morning saying that the president had a low-grade fever overnight, but responded well to tylenol and his other symptoms have improved. >> the white house tweeted this new photo of the president working in isolation. cnn's jeff zeleny is at the white house. >> reporter: dr. kevin o'connor released a one-page letter here
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and it ticked through a few of the updates. it said his temperature had climbed overnight to 99.4, which is just on the touch below the fever. a fever is actually 99.6. so fairly close to that. but was still given tylenol because of that. he also has a dry cough, which is nonproductive, the doctor said, and he has a runny nose and fatigue. otherwise, white house officials say the president is feeling just fine. they say he was meeting with his national security team this morning by zoom from his residence of the white house, and he'll be holding a meeting this afternoon with advisers about gas prices, as well as a meeting with advisers talking about the legislative priorities. so you get the sense the white house is trying to show that the president is engaged, yes, he is slightly sick. you saw him with a mask there, unlike we saw him yesterday, he did not have a mask on when he was sitting at his desk in his residence. they're trying to show he's essentially business as usual as he's riding out this isolation of covid.
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we are going to get a briefing in the next hour, at the top of the next hour, from dr. ashish jha, the covid coordinator here. and one question is his age, 79 years old, how are his oxygen levels. the doctor said this morning that they are normal and fine and they are clearly monitoring him at the white house. twice vaccinated, twice boosted and on paxlovid right now, the antiviral. so clearly being treated here. the briefing starts in the next hour. >> we'll look forward to that in about 25 minutes. thank you. meanwhile, russia and ukraine signed a deal that could ease the global food crisis sparked by the war in ukraine. >> and the head of the british intelligence services says that he believes russia is about to run out of steam in ukraine. hear what he tells cnn next.
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. russia's war on ukraine is approaching the five-month mark and the chief of mi-6, brittain's foreign intelligence service has a new assessment of where things stand. >> i think they're about to run out of steam. i think our assessment is that the russians will increasingly find it difficult to supply manpower, material over the next few weeks. they will have to pause in some way and that will give the ukrainians opportunities to strike back. their morale is still high, they're starting to receive increasing amounts of good
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weaponry. >> cnn's nic robertson is with us now. is there a sense, nic, there that russia will have to pause and regroup? >> reporter: there's a hope and there's a belief from the president's office on down that ukraine can push russian forces back. i haven't heard a specific intelligence assessment here saying that they think russia will have to pause, but russia's hitting them hard at the moment in many different places, north, east and south, all the way along the hundreds and hundreds of miles front line and russia is not gaining any territory. i think one part of what the head of mi-6 had to say was important, it's important that ukraine continues to make gains because that boosts morale and the coming winter is going to be a really tough one. so i think that was a very important message for the international community and whatever gains ukraine can make, his assessment appears to be that they're not going to be
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quick. russia, he says putin has made a strategic failure, may have lost more than 15,000 troops, may be forced into this pause, but it doesn't mean the rest of the fight is going to be easy. that's the real ground reality here right now. >> nic, tell us about this very important deal that was reached today between ukraine and russia that will allow for the grain export from ukraine. what does this mean for the global food supply? >> reporter: yeah, for the global food supply it means there should be more wheat becoming available, maybe a week or two weeks' time it should start hitting the international market. and what i found interesting in this was it wasn't russia and ukraine signing a deal together. indeed, they didn't even sit at the table and sign the document at the same time. they were at the table at different moments. this is a deal that russia has signed with the u.n. and ukraine has signed with the u.n., and it's interesting because what russia gets out of this deal is for it to be able to export its
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food and its fertilizer, which is kind of interesting because they're the ones that have been stopping ukraine getting their food to the world market. the world generally sees russia as holding ukraine's grain stores hostage to ransom here. it's about 20 million tons of grain that are expected to be released and there are about 37 ships that are currently in ukraine's ports ready to go because they've been stuck there since the war began. so that should be the sort of leading edge of the wheat getting out. how does it get out? there's agreed with the u.n. and turkey some safe sea channels and turkey, along with the u.n. and russia and ukraine, will oversee what comes in and out of the black sea in those ships. but there's a real lack of trust. there's no hard cease-fire here. ukraine has made it clear if russia continues its shelling, and remember just a couple of days ago it was shelling one of ukraine's ports, odesa, if that
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sort of thing continues, there will be a military response. so right now this is great, it looks good, but it's tenuous. >> nic robertson, thank you for helping us understand all of that. in just a moment we'll introduce a teenager who said this, i felt something on my foot like a bear trap. turns out it wasn't a bear trap. it was a shark. he joins us with more of his story and these pictures in a minute. wait!!! let me help—land o' frost premium meat. delicious and no by-products!
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criminal contempt of congress that steve banno n faces. fou we wait. steve bannon did not have a lot of defenses available to him. he did not put on a defense. he did not take the stand. he did not call a witness. but the burden of proof, of course, is on the government to prove that steve bannon was guilty and that is what they hope the jury will conclude. we do not know the verdict. we are standing by and waiting for the judge to go over this in court. >> let's bring in our cnn senior legal analyst. three hours. we don't know, again, the verdict. but if you're the prosecutor in this case, how are you feeling? >> hold on, we have the verdict. go ahead.
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. >> reporter: we now have the verdict. the jury has found steve bannon guilty of contempt of congress for defying a subpoena, guys, that is the latest that we are hearing. again, as i pointed out, they did not mount a defense. he did not call witnesses. it's clear they are hoping to go to an appeal. finding him guilty means that steve bannon faces a minimum of 30 days behind bars. he faces potentially thousands of dollars in fines and this is a big deal for the house select committee. they are still trying to get information. they are still trying to get witnesses to testify. this is an affirmation from this jury of their investigative powers, of their subpoena powers. frankly, it's also a win for the justice department. this has been a very public highly scrutinized case, and the justice department has come under a lot of attention and some criticism for how they are investigating the january 6th attack at the u.s. capitol. obviously steve bannon is a big name in all of this. >> let's go back to elie now.
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guilty on both counts, there was a count for testimony, also a count for document production. so this is a real moment of accountability, no matter what, steve bannon has to serve 30 days at least in a federal correctional center. >> can it be more? >> it can be more. up to a year on each count. in all likelihood, the judge is going to sentence concurrently. he's not going to serve the sentences back-to-back. the sentences in all likelihood will be somewhere from 30 days up to one year. now, he has the right to appeal. he will appeal. i don't see any real basis on which he will succeed in this appeal. and let's just remember the history here with steve bannon. steve bannon has flouted justice a number of times. he was indicted for a major fraud case by the southern district of new york back in 2000, and he was pardoned by donald trump on donald trump's last night in office. meanwhile, two of steve bannon's codefendants from that case have been convicted. they pled guilty.
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they have not been sentenced but they likely will go to jail. steve bannon got away with it, because he has this relationship with donald trump. he gets a perfectly lawful subpoena from the january 6th committee, he doesn't defy it, he celebrates his defiance, and a jury has spoken and he's going to prison for at least 30 days. >> and we're going to hear right now how he responded to that guilty verdict. sara, what was he right in the courtroom? >> we are told that bannon smiled as they read the verdict, and to be honest, this is kind of indicative of how he's been behaving the entire trial. he has been pretty nonchalant in the courtroom. he was nonchalant in the run up to his trial, even though he decided not to take the stand on his own behalf, he has been coming out of the courtroom every day, and talking to the reporters, slamming the house select committee. i think this is indicative of their strategy going forward, they are absolutely eyeing an appeal. i think, you know, they hope they may have a better chance on
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some of the legal alternrgument they have been laying out in the courtroom, they didn't feel like the court allowed them to put forward their best defenses. i think what we are seeing is a very defiant steve bannon, even in the face of being convicted on two criminal contempt charges. >> could those 30 days or whatever the sentence start immediately? >> theoretically, yes, i think it's unlukely here. sometimes in a situation like this where you have a defendant who's been out on bail as steve y bannon has. the prosecution will say we remand to send this defendant to prison and often the judge will do that. here, given that we're talking about a real sentence but a fairly light sentence, it will be a year or less, i think it's unlikely the judge does that. it's possible. i think what's more likely is the judge lets steve bannon stay out until he's sentenced. usually sentencing would be three months from the verdict, so we're looking september, october, into the fall, octoberish, november, when he
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will be sentenced. >> we're not going to find out the sentence today. >> the judge will not set the sentence today. there's usually a 60 to 90 day period during which there's about investigation done, the parties submit letters and recommendations. he'll set a sentencing date today. we'll know when the sentencing will happen. >> this did not have to go to trial, and steve bannon didn't put up a defense. is that taken into consideration when typically the sentence is determined? >> so first of all, it didn't have to go to trial because steve bannon could have complied with the subpoena. let's start with that. anyone has the option to plead guilty. if you do plead guilty under the federal sentencing guidelines, you usually do get a sentencing reduction. if you don't plead guilty you don't get the sentencing reduction. the judge does take into court, did you lie to the court. he didn't testify so he didn't put himself in danger of lying to the court. perhaps that's one of the reasons he didn't lie to court. it's not uncommon to see a defense put on no defense. naturally you would think,
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wouldn't any defendant want to defend himself. it happens, no case, your honor, our argument is the prosecution has not met their burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. the jury had little problem given the speed of the verdict with the strength of the evidence. >> elie, thank you, sara murray, stand by, we will have more on the breaking news. stay with us. what in n the world is goin on in texas right now? momoney is what's pushing texaso the far right. >> why? is this about being conservative or is it about control? cnn investigates deep in the pocket otexas. sunday at 8. and anticipates your everyeed. with intelligence... that feels anything but artificial. the eqs from mercedes-benz. it's the car electric has been waiting for.
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this is cnn breaking news. top of the hour on cnn newsroom. i'm victor blackwell. >> and i'm alisyn camerota. our breaking news this hour, a jury has just found steve bannon guilty on both counts of criminal contempt of congress. the former trump strategist faces a mandatory minimum of 30 days in jail. >> cnn's sara murray joins us now from the courthouse. we're also joined by elie honig and nick ackerman here. tell us what's just happened in the courtroom? >> reporter: well, steve bannon has been found guilty on two counts of criminal contempt of congress. he smiled and smirked. my colleague katelyn polantz says when the verdict was read. she was in the courtroom as this was hang. the former white house chief strategist is as defiant as ever. with the conviction, he faces 30 days behind bars at a minimum, as well as potentially thousands


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