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tv   Don Lemon Tonight  CNN  July 22, 2022 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT

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a member of the january 6th select committee telling cnn they think they've made the criminal case against donald trump. of course, the only person who can actually make that call is attorney general merrick garland and nobody knows exactly what he plans to do but the committee has been filling in critical gaps of what was happening and perhaps, more notably what was not happening. during those 187 minutes on january 6th when they argue then president donald trump was derelict in his duties. tom foreman has been going
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through the evidence and testimony. what stands out to you? >> what stands out is how much trump was alone. this hearing laid out new and clear details how he urged supporters to converge on the capitol and even as it went out of control for hours, he refused to call off the attack. did he know about the violence? witnesses say absolutely it started minutes after he finished speaking. virtually everyone on the staff was aware of it, concerned about it and one witness after another say the president went to the dining room by the oval office where he sat all afternoon watching fox news showing the carnage next to the oval office. that's where think stand in terms of him knowing about it. did he try to stop it? no. indeed, witnesses say even the secret service agents afraid for their own lives were scrambling to try to get the vice president out to safety he wouldn't do anything. listen to some of the traffic between those secret service agents when they were concerned.
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>> we need to move now. >> copy. >> if we lose any more time, we may have -- we may lose the ability to leave, so we're going to leave, we need to do it now. >> gained access to the second floor and i've got public outside down here below. >> copy. they are on the second floor moving in now. we may want to consider getting out and leaving now. copy? >> will we encounter the people once we make our way? >> encounter any individuals if we made our way to the [ bleep ]. >> six officers between us and the people that are five to ten feet away from me. >> stand by. going down to evaluate. >> go ahead. >> we have a clear shot if we move quickly. we have to -- unknown smoke down stairs by protesters. >> is that route compromised? >> from all indications, these
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agents with the vice president were seconds away, feet away possibly from being caught. the white house counsel was messaging to the white house saying the mob wants to hang the vice president. and trump's chief of staff responds, he, trump, thinks mike deeveryt deserves that and trump was tweeting mike pence didn't have the courage to do what he should have done. what he wanted done is not to have results certified. mike pence didn't have the legal right to do it but trump kept insisting and then, then witnesses say that intensified the rage at the capitol so much so that pretty soon, there was a deluge of messages. tell the president to calm the people. and on and on it went. even the president's own son sent a message to the chief of staff mark meadows saying he's got to condemn this s-h
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s-h-i-t a-s-a-p. he said they had to do something. witnesses say the president kept watching tv, trying to call senators to stop certification and as far as they know, even as people were being attacked, police officers were being beaten, a person being killed and other not making a single phone call to law enforcement, the military or homeland security, laura? >> so i mean, it's unbelievable to think how you laid that out so methodically and fully. tom, how long did it take trump to actually reach the point of telling this violent mob to leave the capitol and to go home? >> well, we know that he tweeted a couple of times early on in this process about not early on but during it about the idea of things being peaceful. he wants everyone to remain peaceful, no violence, which is iconic because it was certainly not peaceful. there was already plenty of violence. we also know that this only happened even this much only
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happened because we were told by one of the witnesses, staff were pushing him to do something about it. listen to the account of what happened when one staff member talked to another one who had come back to try to convince the president to put out a statement. >> when she got back, she told me that a tweet had been sent out and i told her that i thought the tweet did not go forefar enough, there needed to be a call to action and he needed to condemn the violence. we looked directly at me in a hush tone the president didn't want to include a mention of peace in the tweet and it took convincing on their part, those in the room and she said that there was a back and forth going over different phrases to find something that he was comfortable with and it wasn't until ivanka trump suggested the
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phrase stay peaceful he finally agreed to include it. >> again, this was while police officers were being beaten. it was more than three hours before he issued the video statement at thing the rioters very gently to go home anden witnesses note the mob was losing stream anyway. let me jump on and say you're going home since you're going there anyway. the video out takes we saw of the next day when he issued a statement about the violence, he also revealed bursts of frustration in this where he clearly and openly said he did not want to admit that he lost the election. holding onto the very lie that launched this insurrection, laura, and i have to say what really emerged most of all again is a picture of somebody who was alone, hand picked people, people who dedicated their careers and lives to him reached the conclusion that he was in the wrong and this had to be stopped but he did not.
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laura? >> tom, thank you. i want to bring in alex holder, the documentary film maker that testified to the select committee behind closed doors and turned over hours of his footage. his three-part docuseries is available on discovery plus, owned by cnn's parent company. thank you for being here tonight. i have to ask, when you spoke to trump and the people around him in depth and your team had really a front row seat to the horrific january 6th attack, so given your inside access, i wonder what surprised you most about the committee's case knowing what you already knew? >> so in someways, i think, it wasn't so surprising because i had actually predicted this would happen the day before. i mean, this is a man who really especially when i was watching the committee hearings yesterday can rally only be defined as a bullet.
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this is a man who is sitting there devoid of any moral responsibility where everyone around him is telling him to intervene while people are actually dying and being injured and he's refusing to do anything. and i think what the committee did so well is very difficult to show somebody not doing something because how do you put that all together? and i think they did a very good job of doing that. at the end of the day, this is a man who came to believe in his own lies so much he was devoid of reality, he was annish irratl player and the people closest to him had to beg him to intervene and it still took 187 minutes or whatever it was. >> the only thing i wonder is i wonder if he did believe what he was saying or wanted it to be true? there is a distinction between the two. check this out. check out this video this committee presented of what was happening in the crowd after donald trump sent that 2:24 p.m.
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tweet slamming mike pence about his purported lack of courage. >> stick up for donald trump! mike pence traitor! >> in case you haven't heard yet. >> what happened? >> it's mike pence. that's the word. mike pence has -- >> i mean, seems like the rioters were really hanging on trump's every word. you heard the same statement from sarah matthews that f testified what she saw on the campaign trail, is that what you also saw, the idea of the magnetism and draw of trump to the supporters? >> absolutely. it was like a religious convention in someways. these people were so hell bent on this idea that they could intervene in this ceremonial process and they would do
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whatever he said because they really genuinely believed in this insanity that he had in fact won and that the only way of being able to prove he had won was that they had to intervene in this process or at least hope that mike pence were to come through as he says and stop this ceremonial count of the elect toral college votes. the fashion you see in these people's conviction because at the end of the day, this wasn't a candidate saying this, this wasn't a random person. this is the incoumbent presiden of the united states of america spending the last six or seven weeks maintaining this position again and again and again and he had won and president biden did not and that this was now his election had been stolen. it was absolutely remarkable and these people believed it and cramming up the steps and in the series we see this horrific death of one of trump's own
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supporters who tragically dies because of the crushing of all the people trying to get into the capitol. i mean, absolutely shocking and really like a war zone. >> and speaking of the idea of not -- the loss of life. i'm so glad you continue to reiterate there were -- there was loss of life more than one person whose life was taken and claimed throughout that day and also in the days after including police officers and including civilians. we also saw some out takes from this speech that trump recorded just one day after the insurrection on january 7th where he was still clingi artic before that. here is a small part of it. >> this election is now over. congress certified the results. i don't want to say the election is over. i just want to say, congress has certified the results without saying the election is over, okay? >> but congress is certifying -- now congress -- >> yeah, right. >> now congress --
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>> i didn't say over. let me see. >> i mean, who thought that over was a four-letter word that a dirty one at that. i know it's the o-v-e-r but the idea of him not wanting to say it. did you see something similar doing your documentary series? he as refused -- defiant about trying to admit that election was over? >> absolutely. in fact, just two really interesting points from that that i noticed. one is his own daughter sounds scared of him, which i found interesting. she was quite sort of more subserving than you expect. in fact, when i asked him a question during the interview in the white house about sort of the way i phrased it was if the election were to potentially go, even though it had gone towards president biden, he just could not conceptiualize the idea at
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that point, when his own attorney general said there was no evidence whatsoever to support any of his claims, he still could not bring himself to accept that the election was over. he was furious and you can see that play out and what is also interesting is you really get an insight into who he is as a character in the fleeting moments where you see those out takes and the same of the series, as well, you see him moving the glass of water around for a minute and a half or referring to the tone of his -- the color how he looks on camera. these are the moments you really get an insight what actually is important to him -- >> let's play that. i want people to see what you're talking about. i want that to be vissual, this idea of what you're talking about. let's play it. >> i don't think you want to have the water in the picture, right? you can take it off. yeah. put it over there, nick. >> the table, as well?
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>> yeah, might as well take the table. look good. very good, thank you. you know what you can do, nick? >> sir? >> put the table back because it's missing something. put the table back and put the water on the table without the thing on top of it. okay. how does that look? go ahead. take it out. yeah. all right. right? let's go. >> i wonder why did you choose to release this particular clip? what was the motivation? do you hope people will see? >> i mean, i think there is a different -- there is a few ways of looking at that clip but for me, it completely person sopers sonifies who he is.
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he's a showman. he's the president of the united states of america spending a minute and a half moving around a glass of water in the midst of this turmoil he created and i think that's what is important to him, how it looks but more than just the super official th things. he's micro managing a glass of water to be in the center of a table is extraordinary. others think he has attention to detail and very important to do. i'm open to all interpretations. for me, the way that he comes across in those candid moments is really the way that you get an insight into who he is as a character, that above all else he's a showman and it's all about the brand and trump. everything else is second. democracy, elections, january 6th. that's all much later. for him, it's just how does he look, you know, is he asserting enough control and power? the image, the brand, he's a
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showman. >> i mean, listening to you and all i can think of is perception is king and along with that idea of just last night hearing testimony i think from mark milley suggesting that mark meadows said look, we have to change the narrative that mike pence was running the show. it's got to come from as you articulate the showman. really fascinating. thank you so much. >> thank you. pleasure. seven former top officials of the u.s. military are accusing trump of dereliction of duty as the capitol was attacked writing in a powerful essay he not only failed to restore order but even encourage the rioters, endangering lives in america's democracy. steve abbott joins me next. ♪ ♪ it's electric... made extraordinary. ingenuity... in motion.
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the january 6th hearings how when the seat of american democracy was under attack, the commander in chief did nothing. how amid pleas from staffers and political allies, he refused to call off the mob and this week, seven retired generals and admirals blasting the former president for dereliction of duty in an opinion essay in the "new york times." one of the authors joins me now. retired u.s. navy admiral steve abbott. admiral, thank you for joining the program this evening. i read your piece. it's very, very compelling. what the former president was doing and was not doing was so
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striking in january 6th's, the committee's hearing last night. i want to listen for a moment to what they found when it came to any kind of request for assistance that day, from the military or frankly any top law enforcement. >> so are you aware of any phone call by the president of the united states to the secretary of defense that day? >> not that i'm aware of, no. >> are you aware of any phone call by the president of the united states to the attorney general of the united states that day? >> no. >> are you way our after phone call by the secretary of se security that day? >> i'm not aware of that, no. >> did you speak to the president. >> no. >> for the -- >> no. >> did you ever hear the president ask for a law enforcement response? >> no. >> well, your "times" piece was
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written before last night's hearing, i know we're having difficulty with your camera. what do you think now hearing that a call was not made, ever? i think we're having a little problem still hearing admiral, as well and i really want to hear his answer given this thought provoking piece. we'll take a quick break, regroup, get admiral back on. we want to hear his insight on this piece. we'll be back in just a moment. . only to realize... what if i can't sell my place? ♪ don't worry. sell it directly to o opendoor and we'll helplp you buy your next one. aah. when life's doors open, we'll handle the house.
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we're still working to bring back on admiral. we really want to hear his insight this evening and as we work on that, there is more news out there including from california where their governor gavin k gavin newsom is signing a new bill, guns that are illegal in the state of california and the law is modelled after a texas law that allows citizens to sue doctors and other medical professionals who provide abortion services. for more on this, i want to bring in cnn legal analyst areva martin and david. happy friday evening to both of you. i'm glad to see you both here. i'll begin with you here, david. because many democrats have been calling for a stronger response to the gop assault on rights like abortion and newsom is fighting fire with fire. we heard about the idea will
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this be used in other capacities? we talked about this over time, as well. these ideas of this bounty laws as they are often described, they were controversial then, they're controversial now. is this a political move, a policy move? is it prudent? are your thoughts? >> it's a policy move, a democratic rallying cry. it's a finger in the eye to a couple other large sun belt state governors in this case, governor abbott in texas and it's maybe the sort of undeclared start of a 2024 presidential campaign if democrats decide to bring someone like governor newsom off the bench. you and areva are the legal eagles. i'll say here that i definitely think and governor newsom said this law will be challenged on the grounds that guns generally are legal even though some are banned like ghost guns and 50
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cals in certain situations, ar-15s in california and that people have a second amendment right to own firearms but the premise of this lie is look, if the supreme court can allow people to use these bounties to sue people over abortion providing abortion care in texas, why can't we use it to sue manufacturers of ghost guns in california? and the law has a provision in it that says if the supreme court strikes one down, we can strike the other down and in that way, governor newsom is making a legal and policy point and also saying to democrats, look, i'm not just going to stand around. i'm going to fight back. >> areva, i'll extend his analogy about legal eagles. you're the legal eagle here, in fact, i respect you so much. what is good for the goose, bring another bird here, what is good for the goose is good for the begagander.
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why wouldn't other so-called blue states do this? i want to read through the aclu put out a statement on the law and here is some of what they said, areva. they said this legal frame work is unsound and invali activity because constitutional government destroys an individual's ability to petition a court to block the state from violating a legal right. i'm wondering from your perspective is that right to you and will these so-called bounty laws, will this undermine maybe fatally the power of the j judiciary to intervene and weigh in. >> you said knewsom basically stated, he was emphatic when the supreme court refused to strike down that texas bounty law that law which allows individuals to sue individuals that aide and
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abet those who assist someone getting an abortion after the six-week ban in the state of texas. newsom invited democratic state legislators to send a bill to his desk based after that texas law but had to do with gun safety and senator bob here in the state of california did just that. he sponsored this law. it made its way to gavin newso m's desk and he signed it and had a big ad trolling state of texas saying if you can protect women's, what you believe women's lives by banning abortion, we'll protect the lives of citizens by preventing individuals from selling and transferring assault weapons and ghost guns in the state of california. now, he knows, gavin newsom is smart, they expect and anticipate they want a constitutional challenge to happen with respect to this bill and want to see this bill make its way challenge this bill make its way to the supreme court and in someways, gavin newsom is
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trolling the supreme court. he's saying if you were willing to allow this flawed legal reasoning to let this abortion law stand in the state of texas, then you must act consistently and allow this law to stand in california and if you don't, shame on you and i will call you out for the hypocrites that you are. so a lot of politics going on, laura, as well as some legal i'll call shenanigans by governors like newsom. >> i got a chuckle at the idea of consistency and we'll chuckle in harmony, if that's a thing, the idea of the supreme court on the very case overturning roe v. wade, the dobbs decision trying to compartmentalize saying this rule will apply here and here is the base logic, not anything else that comes from the same thing. i wonder the idea of trolling the supreme court on a matter of
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consistency might be an exercise we will see. david, the law also comes as states are dealing with other politically sensitive issues like contraception, who knew that would be polit politically sensitive and voting rights. could these types of laws fuel political battles? most likely they will, right? >> yeah, and just to areva's point about governor newsom and the california legislature wanting to have a challenge so it's not consistent in the application of constitutional pr principles, they can say shame on you if you twist the wording around becomes a campaign rallying cry. it becomes an issue that obviously governor newsom can run on and other democrats if they follow his lead can run on. governor newsom has some quite open runway right now. he won his runoff -- excuse me, his recall challenge last year.
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he's going to costa reelection in the regular election this year. he's got that band width to be able to say look, i'm going to be the fighter of the democrats need. he's got the sort of obama-like exterior, the tall trim perfect family guy out front and he's taken on a little bit of that elizabeth warren, i'm going to fight, i have a plan here mode and maybe that's a formula that will work for him individually and maybe some other democrats will sort of imitate it as we get into the midterms and into the 2024 election cycle. >> it is areva, i'd love you to weigh in. the bounty law out of texas was a case the supreme court looked at and allowed it to go into effect even though the dobbs decision was pending. it overturns roe v. wade but they returned it to the state
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level i believe to flush out the constitutionality at the state level. so we go back to the supreme court fully to be exhausted. i wonder now if it will be part of the supreme court sort of consideration of these things but as the name notion as you respond to that, this is a theme. leave it to the states, almost like bring it back to the states, go back to the states, a patch work is going to befected here and really, if it's always a patch work, is it legally the united states of america under one law? >> well, that's a great question, laura. let's be clear, it's not leave it to the states when it came to that new york gun safety law passed by the state of new york. we saw the supreme court expand its authority and its role and strike down new york's ability to control who could open carry a gun. so we see some inconsistency in laws as they relate to blue states versus red states so on the abortion question, yes, send
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it back to the states and let states have a patch work of laws to make it difficult and confusing for women, particularly women to know what they can do and whether they can travel outside of a state where abortion is banned to go into a state where it's legal and have an abortion without that state trying to reach a cross state lines and hold it criminally responsible but when it comes to something like the second am amen amendment, we know is important to conservatives and this court, the court relied on some really tenuous legal arguments to strike down that new york law. so i don't think we can read much into this court, laura, other than they're conservative and every opportunity they get to rule in a way that is consistent with conservative ideology and politics, they're going to do that even around co coc contraceptive and gay marriage. we should be really clear what clarence thomas said in that
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concurring opinion opens the door for challenges and i think, laura, he was inviting conservative. >> oh, yeah -- oh, no. sorry. >> a bill -- i think he was doing the same thing governor k newsom was doing. he was telling the red states to send him contraception lawsuit or case and send him a gay marriage case so that he can do what he did in dobbs. >> i got to say, i don't know what either of you are talking about. there has never been double speak in washington d.c. everyone here says what they mean. it's always consistent. i don't know what you guys are trying to pull here about washington d.c., i hope you see my sarcasm through these pink lips today. thank you so much. >> something in the water in california. >> something up in the water. but in the water in new york, it makes good pizza and bagels. i don't know what is happening here. we'll move on. that's fine. >> thanks, laura.
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quick break. we are going to get admiral back. i definitely want to hear his insight as to this really compelling and thought provoking piece in the "new york times" talking about the dereliction of duty, which is normally a military concept and will a civilian commander in chief be held to the same standard? you'll hear his insight in just a moment. the old you is still hanging around. younger zoe: i'm listening to music. yoyounger zoe: you are a libra and he is a pisces, that is like a cosmic dungeon. older zoe: you know what,t, can you? younger zoe: cosmically, no. ththat's why i only date musicians. younger zoe: what are you guys eating? older zoe: it's lasagna. younger zoe: (chewing sounds) younger zoe: i love lasagna, that's you guys. so today, let's paint... ...with behr, america's most trusted paint brand, and make your home, yours. behr. exclusively at the home depot.
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back now with retired u.s. admiral blasting the former president for dereliction of duty. thought provoking piece. i'm glad you're here. dereliction of duty is one thing but what the committee seemed to paint was a man who was almost by his inaction wanting them to be perhaps successful by not providing help and guidance. what do you make given this piece was written before the actual hearing, what do you make of the way this actually went do down? >> i can tell you the hearing reinforced the opinion of the group of us that had got together and witness what occurred after the november election and concerned that it was going to have a serious
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effect on military relations and watching the hearings reinforce the views. we felt strongly that the committee established two things. we thought one is that there was a conspiracy underway that would overturn the will of the voters if successful and the extent of that conspiracy is not clear yet and the second thing is establishing that president was derelict in his duties for failing to call off the rioters and as you established in the earlier piece, he certainly knew what was occurring and we believe he knew his duty to call off the mob that he sent to the capitol and so as you pointed
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out very clearly, did nothing for three hours and gave encouragement to them. >> i want everyone to read your piece because it's so thought provoking not only the dereliction of duty but the notion of what you think the military ought to be considering to safeguard against this very thing from happening again. it's available in the "new york times." thank you so much. with the overturning of roe v. wade, many states are putting strict anti abortion laws in place but what if i told you some of the founders in the country thought abortion ought to be a private matter? we'll talk about it, next. ♪ you had me at allison® 10-speed transmission. ♪
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legal fights playing out in more than a dozen states as the supreme court overturned roe v. wade last month. justice aleto's premise that the constitution can protect the right to abortion only if it is deeply rooted in our history and traditions, unquote. but tonight calling that into question is a history professor at george mason university and she joins us now. cynthia, i'm so glad you're here because as you know he wrote the idea in his opinion. this is a case from 1792 that you point to that might show how
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wrong that is. tell me about it. >> okay, well a, a while back i wrote a book that resolved around scandal involving the termination of a pregnancy in an unwed woman in a very prominent virginia family. at the time i was really unclear about whether it was a purposeful abortion or it was a miscarriage. i was more interested in the scandal. but i was approached by an ob/gyn, dr. sarah pojy who had read my back and with her medical knowledge she absolutely convinced me that what happened was a purposeful abortion. and in the current context of 2022 the interesting part about that story is really that there were all of these very prominent virginia men, founding fathers, involved in this case. >> like thomas jefferson.
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>> thomas jefferson, john marshall, patrick henry. and not one of them thought that this abortion was a matter to be adjudicated in the courts, to be discussed in public or to be in any way, you know, punished. >> it's fascinating because we often hear about, well, the founding fathers wanted and thinking about constitutional interpretation. we actually don't have a hypothetical me. we know what people like thomas jefferson and the like actually thought. it was a private matter. it wasn't a matter for public discourse. and so if that's the case is the aleto opinion fundamentally flawed in. >> well, as an opinion based in history, yes, indeed it is. because in the founding era there were no laws against abortion. the historical survey that the opinion uses to justify the idea that abortion was not
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quote-unquote, you know, deeply rooted in the american past is a single case from the colony, not even state of maryland, in the 1650s. and then just sort of catapult ahead to the late 19th century, a century after the founding fathers were actually dead and gone to talk about state laws that were passed in that very different time period. so, i mean, i suppose that there are perhaps moral or religious arguments that you can make against abortion, but the historical argument simply, you know, it's not factual. >> got to read your book. thank you, professor. nice speaking you today. i appreciate it. and speaking of history and of course what's happening now, the russian invasion continues to upset lives in ukraine. in fact, a third of the population has had to either flee their homes. and nearly 6 million people have left the country. we're featuring this week's cnn hero who's doing all she can to
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help. here's theresa gray. >> what we were expecting to see was large groups of people housed in tent cities, and actually they are housing these refugees in individual dorm rooms. they've got food. they've got shelter, but the trauma is the same. >> they've lost almost everything. >> this is filled with women, children, and elderly. there is a flu outbreak currently that obviously affects the children. we also have pre-existing conditions. it isn't just about fixing a broken arm or giving you medicine, it's making that human connection. sometimes you need to hold their hand and walk them down a hallway and listen to them. we try to meet the needs of whatever presents to us. >> smile, everybody. >> human suffering has no borders. people are people and love is love. >> theresa is back in romania
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helping once again. to see her full story go to, and while you're there nominate someone you know to be a cnn hero. thanks for watching. our coverage continues. (dad)) ohhhhoooo.... (man) woah, woah, woah! no, no, no, no! ugh... (woman) huhhhhg.... (woman) ughh. ohh... (dad) ! ohhhhhh. (man) ugh, ugh, gaaahh. (woman) n, n, n, n... uggggg... (vo) don't worry. you may feel every ding, but your subaru's value won't. the subaru outback has the best resale value in its class. (man) check please. fishing helps ease my mind. kinda like having liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. woah! look out! [sfx: submarine rising out of water ]
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and switch to xfinity mobile. from medieval to defenseless to guilty as charged. steve bannon's next stop for defying the house january 6th committee could be federal prison. john berman here in for anderson. far from carrying out his pre-trial threat to go medieval on the prosecution, steve bannon did not even put on a defense in his contempt of congress trial, and it did not take long for a jury to convict the former president's one-time chief strategist and insurrection rabble-rouser on botts


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