tv The Situation Room With Wolf Blitzer CNN July 29, 2022 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
just like schwab. schwab! look forward to planning with schwab. happening now, a cnn exclusive report. we now know when the inspector general over the department of homeland security first learned of those missing secret service text messages. the timeline is raising serious concerns for january 6 investigators. also tonight, new developments in the potential prisoner swap between russia and the united states. we have details. we'll share those with you and discuss with trevor reed who was recently freed from russian captivity. the historic flooding in kentucky killed at least 16 people including 6 children.
i'll speak to kentucky governor. welcome to the viewers here in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." we begin this hour with exclusive new reporting. multiple sources are telling cnn the top watchdog over department of homeland security learned about missing u.s. secret service text messages months earlier than previously known. let's get to ryan nobles. what are you learning about the missing texts? >> reporter: the timeline outlined by the inspector general of the department of homeland security just doesn't match up with exactly how it played out. that according to reporting. according to the reporters
learned is that he was notified as early as may of 2021, a couple months after the text mebsz ands were deleted and did not inform members of the january 6 select committee and the other oversight committees. this raises serious questions about the timeline of events and when he took action to try to retrieve the messages. this is just part of what we learn about the deletion of text messages from the important government agencies with information related to january 6. "the washington post" reporting that two key members of the homeland security administration the then acting secretary of department of homeland security and secretary had their text messaging deleted from the migration of old phones to new
phones. chad wolf responded in a tweeter feed saying he never issued any mess ablgs and a loss of the information after he handed it back around the time to resign from the post january 11 shortly after the attacks. chad wolf among the many people that the january 6 committee is interested in talking to. i learned that they spoke to wolf several months ago before learning about the missing messages. he could be among the people to talk to once again. >> i suspect that's true. let me turn to new comments from gop leader mccarthy about a key conversation with cassidy hutchinson. manu raja pressed us today. what did he say? >> reporter: he doesn't appear
to have a recollection and the content of the calls. hutchinson testified that mccarthy among the people that called her to try to encourage mark meadows to tell donald trump to tell the supporters to leave the capitol. >> reporter: she testified saying that you called her after donald trump urged the supporters to go to the capitol and you were concerned saying don't come up here. she said that under oath. did you tell her that? why were you concerned about january 6? >> i don't recall talking to her that day. or i recall talking to jared and trump. if coming up here i don't think
i wanted people coming up to the capitol. but i don't remember the conversation. >> why were you concerned about trump coming the capitol? >> i don't remember this. >> you don't remember? >> i didn't watch it. this is so confusing. i didn't watch the speech. i was working. i didn't see what went on. until after the fact. >> did you want him to come to the capitol? >> no. i never communicated with him about coming to the capitol or even going to come to the capitol. that's news to me. >> she said that -- reassured you through the course of the week he was not going to come to the capitol. >> i don't remember conversations with him about the president coming to the capitol. >> reporter: so of course this does not in any way contradict hutchinson's testimony or confirm it. the minority leader forgetting
what his conversations on that very important day. wolf? >> good reporting. stand by. i want to bring in shan woo and jennifer rogers. what do you make of that nondenial denial if you will from him? >> he seems like he is trying to suggest that he didn't have that conversation with her. of course we don't know for sure yet. if he called her from his phone the phone record are from. it would tell us that they did speak. >> do the comments from mccarthy show how difficult it is to get straight answers from trump allies about what actually happened on january 6? >> certainly does. sound like he is really warming up his -- to the best of my recollection i can't recall anything type of speech and
problematic. it is easy to say they don't recall. there are other people who are basically disputing what he said and it seems very hard to believe that on such an important occasion, a traumatic day he has poor recall specifically about conversation i they said they had with him. >> in terms of the secret service text messages, how cooperative have the secret service and the department of homeland security been with the january 6 select committee? >> reporter: i would say that the cooperation is uneven particularly related to the text messages. the committee felt frustrated they haven't gotten straight answers and then taking it a step further if there's an effort to retrieve this enl. the committee did subpoena the
secret service for a bevy of records and has handed over thousands of documents, call record and other things. we saw some of that pop up in the last hearing and concerned about the text messages being deleted. they don't buy the text messages just lost in a migration of phones. h he believes there's something more to it and feel they are not getting the straight answers. part is because of the secret service. part of it is because of the issue of oversight. which department should they respond to and i think secret service is unclear who to talk to. >> not the only member of the select committee deeply worried about the missing text messages. jennifer, "the washington post" is reporting that text messages
between top trump homeland security officials from a key period are now missing, as well. increasing number of records regarding the insurrection seem to be unaccounted for. >> yeah. this is a major problem and shaping up to be a massive scandal. you have missing information. the secret service information. all the record from january 6 itself. the presidential diary and call logs. this suggests tampering with evidence. whether they prove that or not i don't know. the problem is exacerbated by the inspector general who really needs to be removed by the biden administration. time and time again refused to do investigations and now we learn over a year he didn't inform congress and the dhs secretary what he learned about the messages going missing and time to go and at least if we got someone independent in there
we could be more confident that there's true oversight going on at secret service. >> shan, what do you make of this? >> i agree with jennifer. he needs to go. the sad thing is this type of whether it's ineptitude complicates the investigation. someone has to untangle the messages and really the point was getting to the evidence in those messages but you have to do the side investigation to look backwards and makes things harder. >> sure does. thank you very much. more deaths confirmed in a devastating flooding in eastern kentucky including a number of children. that's next. when you have technology that's easier r to control...
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governor. cnn's joe johns is in hazard, kentucky, for us where first responders are racing against the clock. >> a little room completely crushed. >> i'm so sorry. >> it is okay. >> reporter: tammy's home in pefr ri county now in the middle of squabble creek. like heifer hurndreds of familis lost everything. >> no electricity. no nothing. >> reporter: joe crest is a lucky one but he said many neighbors lost their homes. >> houses are gone. washed away. people in them. we don't know how many is missing at this point. nobody ever got a warning. just happened so quick. >> reporter: nearly 300 people cut off by the flooding rescued so far according to the governor. the devastation widespread. debris along this creek.
broken bridges. downed trees. >> i never seen this before. in all the years i lived here. >> reporter: the storm broke down communication. >> the area of the storm is totally annihilated the infrastructure. water, telephone, internet, electricity. all the basic roads. all the basic things you would build a community around disappeared. >> reporter: more rain is expected. eastern kentucky has a slight to moderate risk of flash flooding through saturday evening. >> i have done three plus flights and or tours over flooded areas. this is the worst. >> reporter: after flying over the hard hit region the governor with more grim news.
>> they have located the bodies of four children. hundreds of homes, ball fields. parks. businesses. under more water than i think we have ever seen in that area. impassable. just devastating. >> reporter: we did just get a blast of one thing people don't need one thing. that is more rain. fortunately that storm moved in and out very quickly. you can see just a little bit of evidence of the power of the flash flood taking many whole buildings with it with the belongings of so many people here in eastern kentucky. wolf? >> joe johns in kentucky, thank you very much. joining us is the governor of
kentucky. thank you for joining us. what's the latest you can tell us right now? >> i just finished an aerial tour. it is devastating. this is a type of flood that even an area of flooding has never seen in our lifetime. hundreds of homes wiped away with nothing left. as we silt here right now the off official count that we have lost is 16. i believe we have at least six children, six dead children. that are families in the communities are missing. >> governor, you have said that the death toll will continue to rise. what are you bracing for coming
to this loss of life? >> we think that certainly it could potentially double. there are so many areas we can't get to. the water hasn't crested in eastern kentucky. we can't get in to some hollers and see who is there. people are scared because they can't reach the relatives with cell phone service down. water systems overwhelmed. so we are in search and rescue for an ongoing disaster. in the days ahead as the water goes down we'll turn to rebuilding and going to take years. it is devastating for us, especially after the western part of the state went through the worst tornado disaster 7 1/2 months ago an i th.
>> what sort of situation are people in that need rescue? >> we have thankfully had national guard, fish and wildlife, kentucky state police, the fire group from lexington with boats. there's a group from mayfield that drove an ambulance across kentucky, the area hit hardest be i the tornadoes because they were there for them and they want to be there for eastern kentucky residents in the time of need. we had over 150 i think it is affair rescues on the roof or the tree where the state police, national guard from west virginia and tennessee helping us out lifting people up because they otherwise can't get out. you look at boats and different
level. bringing in the zodiak boats with serious current in some places making it dangerous to get to people. so we try to get them. all the belongings are gone. they didn't have a lot to begin with that are losing everything. >> governor, western kentucky still recovering from last december's tornadoes. what does it say about the state's vulnerability to the climate crisis and the resilience? >> first, we are resilient people. we love each other and when this happens we open the homes and the hearts to each other. i want to thank the hundreds of people out there trying to bring people to safety. feeding them. caring about them. certainly us and the whole rest of the world has to be more resilient. i don't want to lose another
kentucky recognize department. we have lost far too many. right now i want to make sure that the conversation that i focus on is of the loss of the families suffered and that we'll be there to rebuild and as we rebuild we rebuild stronger. we have offers from fema. the administrator on the ground tods to unlock funds to help us do that. i talked to the president two hours ago. pledged to do anything and everything to help to get direct fema assistance to the families. we are grateful to him and the administration. >> good luck. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. how you can help victims of the flooding in kentucky visit
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jeremy diamond is here right now. how vicious was it? >> so much reporting revealed how vicious but the new book gets at providing new details and insights and the first time haefring publicly from him about the that infighting with steve bannon describing the infighting that wept on and describing steve bannon as a quote toxic figure saying quote from steve bannon responding to kushner saying jared you are the one understood mining the president's agenda. i will break you half. don't "f" with me. strong words from bannon there and not the fist time. another instance bannon confronted kushner he thought was leaking about him saying how
f'g dare you leak out on me? this is his account of this. kushner claims that he was woefully unprepared for the media battle but figured it out quickly and bannon learned if you went against kushner you usually lost. in these excerpts you see kushner taking credit for bringing him in the fold and the firing of bannon writing this admitting that i didn't have any major policy successes i joked at least i was able to get steve bannon fired. look. we know that jared kushner and
stooe bannon butted heads repeatedly. what's interesting is that jared kushner described steve bannon as being toxic. the west wing was a toxic wing fostered by donald trump to watch them go after each other and steve bannon got pardoned by president trump and he was also advising him as we learned of january 6. >> certainly was. thank you. also want to get analysis from former republican congressman charlie dent. thank you for joining us. is this a typical white house to operate? >> having spent time in that white house in a few meetings this was a toxic, hostile work environment. in fact, a team of vipers.
that's a book written by a former staffer. jared kushner's book doesn't ab solve him from enabling him. the fact to bring steve bannon in the white house in the first place he is an anihilist. we have heard about how he just is an and and architectist. it just speaks to how dysfunctional the white house was and the president of the united states is responsible for it. >> i want to bring in john kasich of ohio for thoughts on this. what is your reaction on hearing what currentkushner?
>> look. i ran a big state here. seventh largest state in the country. when they back bite and the other things it is really hard to get anything done. i'm not surprised by this and that there's tremendous chaos inside that building. it shows you why you have seen what you have seen in that administration. so there's no real surprise to me. what i would say is for anybody who wants to assume an administrative role if you don't get the people together and move in the same direction you won't get good results. >> charlie, how concerning is it to learn about this dysfunction within trump's west wing as he seems to be gearing up for
potentially another presidential run? >> i'm not surprised. governor kasich may recall, too, i witnessed how the dysfunctional president berated me. i was trying to show the problems with the repeal replace bill in 2016. i learned quickly that policy didn't matter. this was an environment that was vicious and cruel and the fact that the former president wants to run again and try to give us four more years of this dysfunction he can run again but i i don't see how he can win that white house again in a two-person race given all we know about how the white house was run. >> governor, both trump and
pence the former vice president there eyeing visits to the iowa state fair why what does that mean? >> they want to run. it is a long way between that 2024. there's going to be a lot of changes but you will see people going to iowa. they will do the soap box in iowa. they eat the funny food out there. he is serious about running and pence is. it's somebody to have a lot of new, bold, good ideas and money. we'll have to see if donald trump does this or not. he is not a lock at this point. >> john, charlie, thank you. we have exclusive new information on a potential prisoner swap with russia. it'g rush... ...zapping millions of germs in seconds. for that one-of-a-kind whoa... ...which leaves you feeling...
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a cnn exclusive. sources saying tonight that russia wants a second man to be part of the prisoner swap proposed by the united states for griner and whelan. fred pleitgen is in moscow working the story. what can you tell us? >> cnn learned that the u.s. put forward trading viktor bout for whelan and griner but now the russians also wanted someone in a german jail. he's been in german custody
since 2019 for a murder in berlin the government says was carried out by the russian government. the russians have denied that. according to information obtained by natasha bertrand, with that deal the russians said they also wanted the second prisoner and thei u.s. did inquire whether that might be possible. the germans didn't take that as a serious inquiry. but it does show that the u.s. is very serious about trying to bring both home. >> as you know the russian foreign minister said the u.s. should return to quiet diplomacy. is there risks to it being
public so far? >> reporter: yeah. the russians seem to believe that it make it is negotiation process more difficult. it could be that it makes it more difficult. state department is saying that they won't comment on this process simply to have the best opportunity to achieve a good outcome. i also asked if spokesman for the kremlin for vladimir putin whether or not they had anything to say about this and they said no comment. >> thanks very much. let's get more. joining us is trevor reed freed in april in a prisoner exchange after being held by russia for more than two years. what is the reaction to the russian response asking for another prisoner exchange?
>> yeah. i'm not surprised by that at all. i would think if they have the opportunity to get more out of a possible exchange they will attempt to do that. >> you are encouraged by the transparency but having it play out so publicly could give russia potentially an upper hand? >> no. i don't believe so. i think that it's probably slightly embarrassing for the russian government to have to make the possess public and may be a useful tool to discourage russia from taking hostages and wrongful detainees in the future. >> you said the russians would be stupid not to take the deal. what do you think needs to happen for russia to say yes to this potential swap?
>> i think that the proposal by the president of the united states by president biden and his administration is an excellent opportunity both for the united states and russia to get citizens which they value back. i think that that's an even trade. obviously viktor bout is a serious criminal with a serious criminal past and paul whelan and brittney griner are not criminals. they are innocent americans and that would benefit both sides. i hope that they're able to accomplish that. it's been a few months since you were released in a prisoner exchange. did you get an indication ahead of time? >> i did slightly before. i won't go into detail on that but a little bit before that
exchange occurred i did have a little bit of information that something may possibly be going on. i didn't know that it involved exchanging prisoners but knew that there was a possibility to be going home. >> what would you say to paul whelan and brittney griner right now if you could because you've been in their shoes? >> yeah. i would tell them to hang in there. do what they need to do to be able to survive. and to hope for the best. and also to prepare for the worst. these are difficult deals to accomplish. there's a lot of detail and different things that go into these types of situations so i'm optimistic about it. i hope they are as well but they should be cautiously optimistic. >> good point. before you go, how are you doing
personally? what have the last few months been like for you? >> to be honest with you it's been the best few months of my life. i can't ever remember having as much fun and feeling as good as i do now. it's been incredible. >> we are grateful that you are free now. you look and sound good. thank you. we'll continue this conversation down the road. >> thank you. a new threat to a fragile deal for food supplies around the world. ukrainian authorities are holding a russian ship full of grain. we'll tell you what's going on when we come back. green? [goose squawks] i was just looking for my ball. 19th hole, sam adams summer ale. [goose squawks] (here you go.) (cheers guys!)
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ukrainian authorities are holding a russian ship full of grain in the black sea. this comes just a week after ukraine and russia signed hand otheric deal on allowing shipments of grain to restart critical defeeding around the world. anybody, you've been speaking to kyiv officials on the ground. what are they saying? >> reporter: yeah. the ship that has 60,000 tons of grain on board has been already purchased by egypt and has been stuck in port here since the war began. ukrainian officials have impounded it or according to sources cnn is talking to, in essence, because it is a russian-owned ship and the
sister ship of the ship, the ii, has been involved in transporting what ukrainian officials say is stolen wheat from russian-occupied parts of ukraine. so this is a dispute between ukraine and russia that's preventing that one vessel. but being in the port today with the minister of infrastructure today and president zelenskyy came down to the port from odesa, along with ambassadors of g7 nations, the ambassador of the united states, the ambassador of the uk, the ambassador of germany and various other nations were all there in the port facility and talking to them. the reason the grain deal is not working at the moment is down to one reason, and that is russia not signing off on the last details of this u.n.-brokered deal to get the grain out of ukraine's ports. ukraine has put forward shipping
channels that can be used by these ships. russia is yet to sign off on it. i asked a british ambassador, the u.s. ambassador about this, and both of them said to me very clearly, russia is at fault. the ball is in russia's court. it is up to russia now. russia still, despite signing that deal last week, is still essentially holding up these grain shipments. >> is ukraine, nic, still on alert after they struck the odesa port just days after signing this historic deal? >> reporter: absolutely. there's very title security in and around the area of the port. there are precautions that the government here has taken. they have anti-aircraft gunfire systems ready in case any other cruise missiles are fired. they're very concerned about it. because it undermines the deal because it undermines confidence that these ships can leave and other ships can come in.
and the way that impacts the way the deal is expected to work is it drives up the insurance of any other ships coming in here, making it prohibitively expensive. at the moment, the insurance is 10% of cargo value. so 25 million tons of grain aboard a ship will therefore cost a shipping company and everyone on that chain $2.5 million. and that's just too expensive for shippers, for farmers, to sell their wheat. so more missiles will essentially wreck the deal. and that's what officials here are worried about. >> obviously very serious. nic robertson in odesa, ukraine, for us. thank you very, very much. up next, 9/11 families are speaking out against former from the f-- former president trump for welcoming the saudi government to his gogolf course.
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some families of 9/11 victims are slamming former president trump for hosting a controversial saudi-backed golf tournament that started today in his new jersey course. polo sandoval is with us. polo, the families are speaking out pretty aggressively. tell us what's going on. >> reporter: wolf, they are outro outraged. that's why they traveled here hoping their voices will resonate. much of their anger is fueled, at least in part, by donald trump's most recent remarks where he told the outlet that nobody has gotten to the bottom of 9/11. you hear from the family members, at least as we did today, wolf, say that does not match from what they heard from then candidate donald trump back in 2016 when he basically put out there the possibility of saudi involvement in the 9/11 attacks and does not match recently released federal
documents released by the fbi in which investigators concluded several of those saudi highjackers that were involved did have some form of support. and that's what is really fueling the frustration here. i want you to listen to sandra felts whose husband was on flight 93. the plane did not make it to its target after it was forced down by the highjackers when the passengers fought back. >> there can be no happy ending. what we want is accountability. i want my grandson to learn the truth about how his grandfather died and the people that supported it. that's what i want. that's why i'm here. >> reporter: now, as for him himself, they deny allegations of the 9/11 attacks and in the kidnapping and murder of jamal khashoggi. >> polo sandoval, thank you very much. tonight, good news. 60 days after a gunman slaughtered 19 students and two teachers at a uvalde, texas,
school, one young girl is finally heading home from the hospital. 10-year-old maya zamora was being cared for at university health. doctors and nurses cheered her as she passed roses along the way. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. outfront next, breaking news. the white house responding here on outfront tonight to cnn's exclusive reporting. putin wants to add a convicted killer to the prisoner swap in exchange for two americans. that on top of the notorious arms dealer biden already offering to russia. plus, missing texts. from the secret service and top homeland security officials. cnn learning the department of homeland security inspector general knew of those missing secret service texts month