tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN November 6, 2011 1:00pm-2:00pm EST
can to bring it down and never take military force off the table. >> and that's today's "sound of sunday." thank you so much for watching "state of the union." i'm candy crowley in washington. tune in next sunday for the first installment of our america's cities series, a look at how mayors are trying to bring back jobs to their towns. we start with los angeles mayor antonio villaraigosa. up next for our viewers in the u.s., "fareed zakaria: gps." > this is "gps," the "global public square." welcome to all our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we have a great show for you today. first up, cnn was given special access to an upcoming article in the "atlantic" magazine with some stunning revelations about pakistan's nuclear arsenal. we talk to the reporter, then a response. i'll ask former pakistani president pervez musharraf about
these charges, about more in pakistan, and also about america's impending drawdown in afghanistan. he's worried. next up -- >> when they ask me who's the president of ubecki -- becki-stan-stan, i'm going to say, you know, i don't know. do you know? >> the least of herman cain's problems now but they are causing trouble. i'll explain. then, new studies confirm what we know. america is slipping behind in education worldwide. we take an in-depth look with the secretary of education and bill gates. but first, here's my take. i've been thinking about occupy wall street, which is now occupying a number of other cities in america, and wondering what is it really about? the protesters don't like bank bailouts, they feel the 99% have been hard done by it, and they're protesting what they see as inequality. but america has always had more inequality than many countries. i think the underlying sense of frustration is over a very
un-american state of affairs, a loss of social mobility. americans have so far put up with inequality because they felt they could change their status. they didn't mind others being rich as long as they had a path to move up, as well. the american dream is all about social mobility in a sense, the idea that anyone can make it. well, "time" magazine has a great cover story this week that highlights the social mobility in america is declining. she points out that if you were born in 1970 in the bottom one-fifth of our socio-economic spectrum, you have only a 17% chance of making it into the upper two-thirds, in other words, moving from the bottom toward the top p. the data now show that it is much easier to climb up the ladder in many parts of europe than in the united states. rana forova points out that while nearly half of american men with fathers in the bottom fifth of the earning curve
remain there, don't move up, only a quarter of danes and swedes and only 30% of britains do. in other words, the europeans do much better. the american dream seems to be thriving in europe, not at home. what happened, and what can we do? well, there are a number of reasons why we find ourselves in this predicament. but the most important of them is how much we have lagged behind in education. no other factor is as closely linked to upward mobility. education is the engine of social mobility. and for all its current troubles, europe, especially northern europe, has done a much better job providing high-quality public education, particularly for those who are not rich or upper middle class. so it helps them move up. we talk a lot about the genius of steve jobs these days and justifiably because he was a genius. but he also grew up in an environment that helped. for example, he graduated from high school in 1972 at a time
when the california public school system was ranked first in the country and american public education was the envy of the world. the public school he went to in cupertino was very high quality with excellent programs in science as well as the liberal arts, his twin passions. today, california's public schools are a disaster, and the state spends twice as much on prisons as it does on education. so how do we fix our education system? well, i'm not going to give it away right now. watch my "gps" special tonight. it's called "restoring the american dream: fixing education." it airs at 8:00 p.m. and 11:00 p.m. eastern tonight. now back to our regular show. let's get started. the issue of the "atlantic" magazine that will hit the newsstands next week has a
terrific story that adds significantly to a growing body of evidence on the pakistan problem. cnn has special early access to it. one of the authors of the "atlantic," jeffrey goldberg, joins me now. welcome. >> thank you. >> let's cut to the chase. the most interesting part of the piece is this conversation that you report between the head of the pakistani army and the head of the unit that is basically in charge of nuclear weapons. >> right. what happened after abbottabad, the u.s. raiders can come in, kill someone, kill someone in an army garrison town, leave without the pakistani military even knowing. so after, this the pakistani military gets very, very worried it american access to pakistan's nuclear weapons. and of course, as you know, pakistan treasures its nuclear weapons more than any other aspect of its arsenal certainly. and -- and --
>> it would be fair for them to think, as you point out, that there might be an american plan, a kind of a plan deep in the pentagon that in a worst-case scenario if something terrible happened in pakistan, we would find a way of going in and securing the nuclear weapons. >> there -- there are plans, in fact. it's a very, very high priority for american planners. we'd rather have those nuclear weapons not fall into the hands of jihadists, if the taliban gets closer to some of these bases. so what happened was this -- the spd, this pakistani army branch, gets a call from general kayani, chief of the army staff, very powerful, saying do we know for sure these weapons are secure, not from jihadists, which is what the world worries about, but from america? >> and what does the head of this nuclear unit, what does he do in response to kayani's concerns? >> well, this is very
interesting. what happens is the nuclear program has already dispersed around the country. there are 12 or 15 sites where you could plausibly believe that there are nuclear weapons stored or components of nuclear weapons are stored. one of the pakistani doctrines to keep those weapons safe and away from prying eyes -- not only america's but india's -- is to move them around, move them around the country. sometimes they're moved by helicopter. but often they're moved by road. and -- and what happened after abbottabad was the pace of this movement increased. in other words, they accelerated the velocity of this shell game, if you will. and here's the troubling -- the really troubling aspect of this. there are two ways you can do this, obviously. you can have huge armored convoys that are -- that are driven at night, well protected, moving weapons and components. but of course that draws attention. not only the attention of
jihadists or whotever might be interested, but -- but spy satellites and et cetera so what happens is very often these war heads and material are moved around in the equivalent of delivery vans. over -- >> u.p.s. trucks basically? >> you wish. i mean, u.p.s. would probably do a fairly good job of it. it's an open question of how good a job is being done. now obviously if the intelligence is good, if they have good operational security on the movement of these trucks, put aside the issue of how dangerous pakistani roads are on a daily basis, but put that aside, if they have good operational security then no one knows where these trucks going at any given moment. but because we know that the pakistani military has been infiltrated to some degree by people who are sympathetic to organizations like the taliban, that's a whole other level of worry. >> you mention in the article very specifically that the weapons in these unsecure or insecure convoys, perhaps one truck moving around, were both
unmated and mated. this struck me as very, very worrying. explain what the difference is. >> right. well de-mated weapons are weapon in which the warhead is in one place. the fissile core is in another, the delivery system is another place entirely. so if you were plotting to steal a nuclear weapon, you're going to have a harder time when they're separate. and so we got reports that sometimes these weapons are actually the smaller tactical sized weapons that are -- that are mated permanently. the way they're designed is such that it's not possible to de-mate them. so you could have a complete nuclear weapon being driven around the streets of -- of pindi or la hor or karachi, where the naval base was that was attacked not long ago. and that's a whole -- another level of worry. and i know that people in the united states government are obviously very worried about that level of security. >> you also point out, and this is somewhat public knowledge,
that you flush out some of the details. there have been attacks on six different bases in pakistan that are considered to be -- or rumored to have nuclear weapons on them, correct? >> there have been several attacks over the past five or six or seven years. the -- the attack that to me is the most interesting was the attack that came a few weeks after the abbottabad raid. it was an attack on this naval air base outside karachi, which some people believe might be a place that you would have nuclear weapons ready for delivery in case of a war between pakistan and india. they managed -- it's not only the fact that these guys penetrated the base, it's that they stayed on the base for i think 16 or 18 hours before they were neutralized. and they had a specific target. they were going for the p3 orien spy planes. they blew up two of them. they had a very good idea of what they should be attacking, what they should be destroying, and they succeeded.
this, of course -- in pakistan, where i did this reporting, it's widely assumed among people who are trying to deal honestly with the subject that these taliban figures who broke into the base had inside help. they wouldn't have known where to go otherwise. it's a large base. and so you have multiple situations where over the last years where these bases have been attacked. sometimes the attacks have been successfully repelled. sometimes it's not been so instantaneously successful. >> jeffrey goldberg, fascinating article. thank you. >> thank you. when we come back, we're going to put jeffrey's findings to a pakistani who may have answers. the former army chief, the former president, pervez musharraf. stay with us. doesn't this worry you that this is happening? >> i don't think so. our nuclear ethics are very, very dispersed. if you've just signed up for medicare or will soon,
there's no time like the present to consider all your health insurance options. does medicare alone meet your needs? would additional coverage be better for you? well, now is a good time to take a look at an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. get started by calling for your free information kit and guide to medicare. as you probably know, medicare only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. a medicare supplement insurance plan helps cover some of it. that could save you up to thousands of dollars a year in out-of-pocket costs. and you can visit any doctor who accepts medicare patients. with medicare supplement insurance,
you'll find a range of plans to choose from to fit your needs and budget. there are no networks. no referrals to see a specialist. and you could get a pretty good idea what your out-of-pocket costs will be every month. plus, these plans travel with you anywhere in the u.s. don't let this time go by without considering if an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan is right for you. it's as easy as a phone call. rates are competitive. and these are the only medicare supplement insurance plans exclusively endorsed by aarp. remember, medicare doesn't cover everything. medicare supplement insurance plans help pay for some of the rest. you could save up to thousands of dollars a year in out-of-pocket costs. and you can choose any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan could be an option to get the coverage you need at a competitive rate. so don't wait another minute. be sure to call today.
call now for your free medicare guide and information kit about aarp medicare supplement insurance plans, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. aspercreme breaks the grip, with maximum-strength medicine and no embarrassing odor. break the grip of pain with aspercreme. as we were discussing, the new article in "the atlantic" paints a frightening perspective of pakistan. my next guest has a unique
perspective on all of it. pervez musharraf ran pakistan's army and government for much of the last decade. thank you so much, president musharraf. >> you're welcome. >> i'd like to talk about some of the revelations in the article in "the atlantic." the first one which in this par is widely known is that over the last years there have been six attacks by militants on sites that are generally known to be pakistani nuclear sites. you know, the sergoda air base, the atonement, the dara ghadzi site. doesn't this worry you that this is happening? >> you are referring to dangers to our nuclear assets? >> yes. yes. >> well, no, i don't think so. our nuclear assets are well dispersed, strongly held. and placed in very reinforced ar areas, which are not accessible. >> you don't think that these attacks were an effort by
militants to get at the nuclear arsenal -- >> no, i don't think so at all. >> so in this article, the allegation is based on multiple conversations with pakistani and american sources that after the abbottabad raid, general kay jani called the head of the group and asked them to make these weapons more secure from the possibility of a raid by the united states. and what the general then ordered was that these weapons move in low-tech, low-security convoys, just trucks, and start moving around pakistan. that these trucks had both de-mated components, nuclear components, but also mated ones, intact nuclear weapons. what's your reaction? >> first of all, as far as movement, et cetera, is concerned, i am not privy to any such thing so i wouldn't be able to comment. i don't know.
>> was it -- in your day, was it a policy to move these weapons around in trucks? >> no, that was not a policy, and i don't know whether it's being done now. i don't know it. but as far as this mating and de-mating is concerned, they are all de-mated. i think even when we had a confrontation with india, we never mated the weapons. and i don't think india did. so because we have conventional strength to meet the challenges of war. so we don't have to go unconventional right away. therefore they were kept mated. >> you always ensured they were de-mated because they were effectively live nuclear weapons. >> yes, and they are not required to be mated. and therefore, they were never mated. i don't -- whoever has written this, i don't know whether this is true. >> under your rule you did not allow this -- >> everything that the spd does doesn't have to be informed to the president or the prime minister of pakistan. things are done independently, they're -- their locations,
their movement from science organizations to the force. nobody tells you all the time everything that is happening. governance is not such a one-sided, one-track issue. there are a thousand things happening. these thing are not -- >> but an issue when nuclear weapons were being moved around the country, surely as president you would have been told in general this is the process, not every time that these things happens -- >> no, no, never told. there are locations to be held, and there are forces to hold them. now it is not that every time something moves, okay, we are moving this from point a to point b. such regular information, running commentary is not given, you know. >> but you really have no worries about the security of the -- of the arsenal? the fact that they're moving them around, if they were, would that suggest to you that there is some kind of nervousness about attacks either from -- by militants or potentially a plan
by the united states -- >> no. i don't think it is possible from my military perspective for anyone including the united states to attack them that easily. they are very well dispersed and in good positions and guarded. so therefore, i don't think it's as simple as osama bin laden action or one point action which is a soft target. this is a very hard target. these are very hard targets. and in places which are not accessible. >> with the rise of militant and terrorist attacks in pakistan that the isi has suffered, that the pakistani army has suffered, you don't worry about the security of pakistan's nuclear weapons? >> i don't. i don't. unless pakistan is -- the
governance of pakistan is taken over by some religious extremist political organization. >> do you think that could happen? >> i don't think so. the moment, religious parties only have 3% or 4% of the total seats. and i don't see that happening in the near future. >> let's talk about the osama bin laden issue because osama bin laden presumably went to abbottabad and started living there while you were president. there are, as you know, an enormous amount of suspicion and there are some modest amounts of intelligence evidence that suggests that he had to have had some local support. he was living as people often point out one mile from pakistan's version of west point, your military training academy. what is your sense of what happened? >> my sense is very clear that it's not a sense of complicity, it's a sense of terrible negligence.
i say that, yes. if it was for -- if he believed that he was there for five years, i say "if he believed" because i'm not fully convinced that he was holed up there for five years. however, might take the word of the united states that they ought to give some evidence about that. two years was in my tenure. and i know that i didn't know. one thing i am very sure of, 500% sure of is that i didn't know. but is it possible at the lower level, is it possible that the army or intelligence was following a policy which was not given by me? i don't think that is possible because -- because they -- i am from them, i am from the army. an officer mainly by the army. >> you've been critical of president obama's decision to withdraw -- draw down american troops in afghanistan. you've consistently said you thought having timetables was a bad idea. now you've begun to talk about
what afghanistan would look like as america draws down. do you see a great game beginning where pakistan and india are struggling for influence in the battleground that is afghanistan? >> india is certainly, certainly doing that. and unfortunately, one government is going along. i know that diplomats, intelligence personnel, military men, security people, go to india for training. i have been bending backwards -- >> from afghanistan? >> from afghanistan. i have been be bending backwards asking president karzai, we opened our training institutions free of cost, come to afghanistan and we'll train you. not one has come. >> but he gave a speech or statement the other day saying if america were to attack pakistan, afghanistan would be by pakistan's side. what do you make of that? >> i think -- i think this is -- totally preposterous to imagine
this kind of thing. and then i thank him that this is the first time he's made a pro-pakistan statement. >> so you really don't trust him? >> not at all. >> what do you think that will happen to him? will he be able to hold on to power as americans draw down? does he have support in pakistan? >> i think it's going to be very difficult, very difficult. very, very difficult. he is not liked by the majority of pashtuns was because of what he is doing. >> what you're describing, though, as the united states draws down, is the potential for very unstable afghanistan with a weak karzai at the head. pakistan and india struggling for domination. >> yes. there's confusion. there's confusion. i get a feeling that maybe we really will work toward whatever happened then. now if we have a strong army which they are trying to develop, i think a strong army there, but is it ethically balanced?
is the strong army again going to be taliban dominated? so therefore, are they starting a new war with the taliban? really i don't know these things. maybe this something happening which is much wiser than what i am thinking, but i don't know. >> pervez musharraf, pleasure to have you on. >> thank you. thank you very much. >> and we will be back. -- who's the president of ubeki-beki-stan-stan. that has all the luxury you'd expect. then you put in an 8-speed transmission that gets 31 miles per gallon. that combination of luxury and efficiency only comes from one place in the world. ♪ now lease the 2012 chrysler 300 for $339 a month for well-qualified lessees.
we've mentioned afghanistan. but there are other stands that are important to america. not, of course, according to herman cain. >> when they ask me who's the president of uzbeki-beki-beki stan-stan, i'm going to say, you know, i don't know, do you know? >> mr. cain i think was talking about uzbekistan. americans actually familiar with a whole other stan. >> my name is borat, i came from kazakhstan. can i say first we support your war of terror? [ applause ] >> but there's another one yet that was in the news this week, and it made a decision that historians might mark as an inflection point for america in the 21st century. i'm talking about kyrgyzstan, a landlocked mountainous former soviet state. it elected a new president, and one of the first decisions he made was to announce that he would shut down the manas air base once its lease expires in 2014.
it's our only major base in central asia and has been a crucial conduit of supplies to the war in afghanistan. come 2014, whether we're still in afghanistan or not, it will be time to move out of kyrgyzstan. and russia is moving back in. after implicitly supporting kyrgyzstan's mass uprising last year, moscow is now rebuilding ties with its former soviet substate. not only does moscow keep its military air base there, the new leadership has also said it would consider joining a proposed eurasian union led by moscow. but let me return to why the story is relevant to the u.s. just last month, you heard the news that washington was going to pull out all its troops from iraq by the end of the year. while it's great that american troops are coming home, it is now well known that the white house didn't get the outcome it wanted. it was hoping to keep some troops in iraq to train iraqi forces. it was hoping to ensure that
iran wouldn't gain influence there. so in both iraq and kyrgyzstan, democratically elected governments, governments that america has encouraged and helped, have requested that the americans go home. it sounds like bad news, but i don't think this is such a bad development. the united states has to manage its foreign policy resources more carefully. that means we will likely do fewer massive military operations like iraq. that's good. those kinds of operations have proven to be incredibly expensive, fraught with troubles, and rarely produced the benefits that justified the costs. we have, for example, achieved a good outcome in libya at a fraction of the cost of iraq and with no lives lost. we've shared the responsibility with other stakeholders, the europeans. so drawing down on our various commitments abroad will give us greater flexibility. there's an indian scholar, roger
mohn, who says if the u.s. steps back, it will see that it has a lot more options. he's talking about our presence in afghanistan. he says at this point you're sitting in the middle, and you are everybody's hate object and everyone sees some great conspiracy what whatever you do. once you powell, you have a lot more options, and you can influence and affect outcomes rather than being pushed around and attacked by everyone. remember, the u.s. still has the largest military in the world and by a long margin. in the last decade, by spending trillions of dollars in iraq and afghanistan, we lost our top billing in other crucial fields at home, education, innovation, infrastructure, and more. the irony is that by asking us to leave kyrgyzstan and iraq might actually be doing us a favor. by investing less and more shrewdly abroad, we might be able to get back to being number one at home. also, we might be liked by other countries because we are not seen as occupying them.
remember, that's what brought one fictional character from the stans to america in the first place. >> king in the castle. king in the castle. >> and we'll be right back. is there a crisis in education? because there are a number of people who feel that some of this rhetoric is overblown, that we're scaring people unnecessarily. >> well, hopefully we are scaring people because i think it's quite necessary. [ both ] our camaro. [ man ] chevy silverado -- third one. [ male announcer ] people love their chevys. that's because for 100 years, chevy has offered the best value in america. come in now and help us celebrate our centennial open house, november 1st through the 7th. and fall in love with your next chevy. ♪ at liberty mutual, we know how much you count on your car and how much the people in your life count on you.
that's why we offer accident forgiveness, man: good job. where your price won't increase due to your first accident. we also offer a hassle-free lifetime repair guarantee, where the repairs made on your car are guaranteed for life or they're on us. these are just two of the valuable features you can expect from liberty mutual. plus, when you insure both your home and car with us, it could save you time and money. at liberty mutual, we help you move on with your life. so get the insurance responsible drivers like you deserve. looks really good. call us at... or visit your local liberty mutual office, where an agent can help you find the policy that's right for you. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?
hello, everyone, i'm fredricka whitfield with a check of our top stories. this is likely the last weekend in greece with george papandreou as prime minister. he's expected to step down after the particulars of a new coalition government are finalized. the move is designed to try and save greece from national bankruptcy. that would drag down other european nations. for the second time in 24 hours, an earthquake rattles central oklahoma. the record 5.6 quake was centered near sparks about 45 miles east of oklahoma city. roads buckled and items fell off shelves but only one minor injury has been reported, a smaller quake hit is the the same area early saturday. the nba is giving players
until wednesday to accept a new collective bargaining deal. the players association rejected a proposal yesterday during eight hours of talks, and there are no new scheduled talks. i'll be back with more news at the top of the hour. now back to more of "fareed zakaria: gps." tonight don't miss a brand new "gps" special, "restoring the american dream: fixing education." it airs at 8:00 and 11:00 p.m. tonight on cnn. i look at just how bad our education problem is, other countries that are tops in education, and what we can learn from them. one of the people featured in tonight's show is my next guest. bill gates might actually be the wealthiest man in the world if he didn't give away so much of his money. don't feel bad, he's still number two. and recently one of the biggest recipients of cash from the bill and melinda gate foundation has been american education. $5 billion. what has he learned? let me let gates tell you that.
is there a crisis in education? because there are a number of people who feel that some of this rhetoric is overblown. that we're scaring people unnecessarily. >> well, hopefully we are scaring people because i think it's quite necessary. if you believe this is a country of equity, that people have equal opportunity, we're failing to deliver that because the inner city school systems are dropping out the majority of the kids. and that's terrible for those individuals, and it's terrible for the country. and yet we're spending massively on these schools. we've more than doubled what we spend on the schools the last 30 years, and we should be age to engage those kids and give them skills so that they're qualified for work. >> what about compared with the rest of the world? do you think these comparisons are meaningful? >> absolutely. now, it's not a bad thing that the rest of the world improves their education systems.
it's not some zero-sum game where if you got told tomorrow that china messed up their education system, you don't go, yeah! they're starting to drop out kids like us, yeah, they're messing up. it's not a game like that. it's good that human potential globally is being tapped into. but, yes, others are in many cases catching up, and in many moving ahead of us. >> i've heard people say, you know, the american system needs to be one which encourages people to be curious, adventurous, taking risks, not -- not the sort of asian-style system where everyone's hurtling toward the test. and they will often cite you as an example. they'll say, look, bill gates dropped out of college, spent hours and hours in computer labs just dreaming up stuff. this was not working methodically toward a test.
what do you say to them? >> well, certainly if my example is meaningful, it's just one data point. my success as an engineer is because i was good at math. and i had good math teachers. and, yes, i memorized the tables and how things worked and -- and gaining those facts helped me think about the patterns in those facts and looking at those patterns helped me think about what -- what computers could do in a very rich way. we don't have countries that are good at education who aren't inventive and creative. you know, is china creative? yes, there's all sorts of inventive stuff being done there. now there's a huge lag time between when you get basic education right, which is very helpful to your economy broadly, and when you start to have the superstars who are inventing new software, new drugs and things like that. and china is proceeding down that path, creating research
institutions, having smart scientists come back to their country. they're further along than india is, but there's still quite a gap. the u.s. by that measure is benefiting from 50 years -- the entire post-world war ii period where we believed in education, we put a lot of state resources into it. we funded research. it was part of our culture that you wanted to learn and contribute in those areas, and, you know, the fruits of that are very clear. >> what do you think makes a good teacher? >> as i've watched the videos of the great teachers, they are constantly looking out and seeing if the kids are starting to fidget. they are bringing up the energy level. they're calling on this kid. they're using examples. it's a fascinating thing. when we first got into this, that was the first data point i was interested in, are there some teachers who are really great. if it turned out they were all plus or minus 10% the same, i would say, okay, we have to discover something new that's not been discovered.
and the likelihood of that is very low. instead, all we're doing is taking what the great teachers are doing and spreading that to the other teachers. so this is not it us deciding what good teaching is or inventing, you know, new, wild theories about how kids think or something. it's simply having a system that spreads the vast ways that teaching gets done. >> you're saying you don't know what makes a good teacher. but you spend a lot of time now thinking about how to excite three kids in particular, your own. when you watch your kids, what do you try to do to get them interested in math and science and stuff that's sometimes a little harder? >> well, one-on-one teaching is kind of the ideal that you -- you'd like to achieve, where you see where they're confused.
you see where they're bored, and you're tuning what you say according to that. a classroom is much harder than that. i also get to take kids around to neat places. you know, my son and i have been to garbage dumps and toilet paper factories and particle colliders and museums, and all sort of things that are unusually stimulating. you get to work hands on, you get to talk to the people who work there. and, you know, i wish every kid had the chance to go around and try out these things. >> over the last few years with all the money you've spent, are you disheartened at where american education is, or do you think you can actually bend this curve? >> i believe it can be done. i think it's important enough that the r&d money should be there. that the new measurement tools should get tried out. and i do think that a lot of these things will be adopted. i think it can make a big difference. it's unfortunate that this is a time when the amount of money going to education will not be increasing.
you know, i wish it was, you know, i'll push for that in any way that i can. >> so you're going to keep putting money into education? >> absolutely. something like this, you shouldn't go into it unless you've got, you know, at least 15, 20 years' patience to figure things out, tune it, try it out. push for the adoption and the real-time learning. there are no quick wins in this space. but, you know, you can see in the charters, you can see in the early piloting of some of these online hybrids, combined with the classroom, you can see a glimpse that we could make it a lot better. >> we'll be back in a moment with more on america's education crisis with the man responsible for making sure our children are properly educated. president obama's education secretary, arne duncan. >> if you look at college graduation rates among young people, we are now 16th in the world. one generation ago, we were first. we've flat lined, stagnated. the first thing you got to do is make a car that's worth building,
that has all the luxury you'd expect. then you put in an 8-speed transmission that gets 31 miles per gallon. that combination of luxury and efficiency only comes from one place in the world. ♪ now lease the 2012 chrysler 300 for $339 a month for well-qualified lessees. you know what else is early? medicare open enrollment. now through december 7th. can i stick with my old medicare plan? sure! or find a new plan with better coverage, less cost, or both. medicare plans give you free cancer screenings and wellness visits and 50% off on brand-name prescriptions when you're in the doughnut hole. it's part of the healthcare law. so it's time to look, compare... and choose the right plan for you. learn more at 1-800-medicare or medicare.gov. and choose the right plan for you. but don't just listen to me. listen to these happy progressive customers.
i plugged in snapshot, and 30 days later, i was saving big on car insurance. i was worried it would be hard to install. but it's really easy. the better i drive, the more i save. i wish our company had something this cool. yeah. you're not... filming this, are you? aw! camera shy. snapshot from progressive. plug into the savings you deserve with snapshot from progressive.
secretary duncan, thank you for joining me. >> thanks so much for the opportunity. >> how does the united states compare with the rest of the world, particularly the rest of the advanced or rich countries in education? if you were to put it very simply. >> not nearly as well as we should. i think part of my job is to wake up the country. i think we've been far too complacent. many different ways to measure it. if you look at college graduation rates among young people, we are now 16th in the world. one generation ago, we were first. we've flat lined, we've stagnated, 15 other countries have passed us by. if you look at math results, we're anywhere from 15th to 30th, so we're nowhere where we should be, where we need to be. i think many americans still think we're at the top in terms of these international rankings. we're not. that's the brutal truth. >> why do you think it happened? why did we go from being first in the world this college aggression to 50th? why did these areas -- a generation ago we were doing pretty well. >> we weren't doing well, we
were doing great. we were leading the world, we were number one. we got complacent. we got self-satisfied. and other countries were hungrier than us, they invested more, they outcompeted us, they worked harder, they made this a national priority. we have to stop resting on our laurels from 25, 30 years ago, we have districts, cities, and states or in the country, we're competing with india and china and south korea and singapore to keep good jobs in this country. good middle-class jobs where folks can own their own home and support their family. jobs that are going to go to where the knowledge workers are and the world shrunk. these jobs can go anywhere. if we want to retain these jobs in this country, we have to do a better job of educating young people so that companies will want to invest and want to build here in the united states. >> and when you look at high school kids who are graduating and then go on to college, both at the high school level and college level, a huge number of dropouts, right? >> on the high school side, it's actually staggering. we have about a 25% dropout rate from high school.
as you know, there are no good jobs, none, in today's economy for a high school dropout. we lose about a million young people each year from our schools to the street. to me that's both morally unacceptable, and it's economically unsustainable. >> so what are we doing wrong? i mean, one of the things i notice is the school year. and you've talked about it. and if you -- if you accept malcolm gladwell's line that you've got to practice 10,000 hours before you get proficient at anything, well, the koreans and even the europeans, particularly northern europeans, they get that 10,000 hours a lot faster than we do. >> when i talk about us being far too complacent, r academic calendar, our school year is based upon the agrarian economy. a 19th century model. i don't think your children, my children are working in the fields anymore. and somehow our calendar is still based upon when children worked in the fields in the summer. our children in this country are as smart, as talented, as committed, as entrepreneurial as children anywhere in the world. but children in other countries, india, china, south korea, going
to school 25, 30, 35 more days than children here. >> what does that add up to over a high school lifetime? >> what this adds up to, if you're a sports team and your team is practicing five days a week and i'm practicing three days a week, you're going to beat me more often than i'm going to beet you. i want to give children a chance to compete in this global economy. we need longer days, longer weeks. we need to get rid of long summer breaks, especially for disadvantaged children. we need to think differently. middle-class children who have access to libraries and parks and museums in the summer, that's okay. but we have so many children where during the summer they fall behind. they come back to school in september, further behind than when they left in june. that doesn't make sense. children shouldn't just be learning six hours a day, sitting in a chair, 24/7, children can and should be learning today. >> we have these bad scattered scores in comparison to the rest of the advanced world. and yet we spend not just more but considerably more money. is it fair for an american taxpayer to say, where the hell is all that money going? >> it is a fair question.
we have to invest, but we can't invest in the status quo. so where we have crumbling schools and where schools lack math labs and science labs and computer labs, we do our children and ultimately our country a great disservice. and we're trying to rebuild that. the president's job act is asking for $30 million to put into that. where you see class size skyrocketing, that's not good for children and education. we need to invest and need to invest wisely. other countries, high-performing countries, do a couple things that we don't do. first of all, they pay their teachers a lot more. they really get great talent to come in. they also invest more in disadvantaged communities. so there's -- you don't have the great disparities, great achievement gaps that you have here. do we have to invest? absolutely, we have to do it in a much more thoughtful, strategic way. and you have to do this to career. people look for one simple answer. it's not that simple. i stay up at night worrying about the challenges, worrying about the 25% dropout rate. worry about making sure we have
got great middle-class jobs in this country. but i know we can get this done. we just have to challenge the status quo and ways we haven't, and have to stop pointing fingers and work together. can america get this done? i know we can get this done. >> arne duncan, thank you very much. >> thanks for the opportunity. and we will be back. what's in the mail? well, it just might surprise you. because this is how people and business connect. feeling safe and secure that important letters and information don't get lost in thin air. or disappear with a click. but are delivered.
from person to person. and, sometimes, even face to face. have a great day. you too. for some of the best ways to connect and protect... it's all in the mail. learn more at usps.com/mail. [ male announcer ] if you're gonna build a fuel-efficient car, the first thing you got to do is make a car that's worth building, that has all the luxury you'd expect. then you put in an 8-speed transmission that gets 31 miles per gallon. that combination of luxury and efficiency only comes from one place in the world. ♪ now lease the 2012 chrysler 300 for $339 a month for well-qualified lessees.
the "gps challenge." on which country was that first aerial bomb dropped 100 years ago? was it current day turkey, libya, italy, or egypt? stay tuned, and we'll tell you the correct answer. make sure you go to cnn.com/gps for ten more questions, and while you're there, check out our web site, the global public square, you'll find fresh content all the time, interviews, analysis, insights. and don't forget, you can follow us on twitter and facebook. this week's book of the week is titled simply "steve jobs." i know, i know. everyone is reading it. but it really is a great read. it is a quintessentially american story of a working class kid who dreamed up a new world. the book tells the story of jobs' business success, but it also explores the fascinating personal life of steve jobs, who was deeply affected by the counterculture of the 1960s and stayed true to its ethos and
practices to the end. it's the compelling story of a compelling man. and now for the "last look." seemingly unremshgble glass of water. except it's not just any water, it comes from the flooded basement of the fukushima nuclear power plant in japan. officials there have been insisting for weeks that the water is safe to drink. but it seems people didn't buy that theory. so one government official set out to prove a point. now that is dedication to your job. as you can see, he doesn't look entirely comfortable. is that a nod to the skies? maybe he shouldn't be. experts confirm this wasn't a smart move. water is a shield against radioactivity, so it's very difficult to gauge how radioactive that water was. good luck. the correct answer to our "gps" question was b. the first aerial bombing happened over libya when an