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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  November 14, 2011 10:00pm-11:00pm EST

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and be interviewed by someone from great britain. >> well, brian, it's been a great pleasure and a great honor. i'm a huge fan. you are where all anchors would love to be one day. brian williams, thank you so much. >> thank you. that's all for us tonight. ac 360 starts now. it is 10:00 p.m. here on the east coast. breaking news in the penn state child sex abuse scandal. we confront jerry sandusky's attorney about the dozens of charges against his client. it's a shocker. we go looking for answers to what head coach joe paterno knew and when he knew it. you'll hear the outlines of a defense strategy, that includes downplaying the most serious eyewitness testimony, what mike mcqueary says he saw in 2002 when he was a graduate assistant. he saw sandusky raping a 10-year-old boy.
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how does sandusky's lawyer answer such a blunt and seemingly unshakable eyewitness account? how does he explain the behavior? his answers may shock you. jason joins us in a moment. so will an attorney for one of the victims. a lot happening tonight, including the removal of joe paterno's name from the big ten championship trophy. the ceo was replaced today. the judge who freed sandusky on bail, without requiring him to put up a penny on bail was herself a second mile member. posting a set of promises on the university website today including this, we will revisit all standards, policies and programs to ensure they meet not only the law, but penn state's standard. he also promised transparency and said never again should anyone at penn state feel unsure
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about doing the correct thing. this story broke nine days ago, there are a lot of unanswered questions tonight. still things that don't quite add up. things like how back in 1998 when the first allegations against sandusky sparked four agencies, both on and off campus to investigate, how is it possible that sandusky's bosses can say they knew nothing about it? head coach joe paterno, sandusky's men tour, close friend. he claims the first he heard of a 1998 incident was in 2002, four years later. is it even remotely credible that serious allegations are made against his right handman, the campus police are involved, that local police are involved, the district attorney knows, child welfare knows and not a single one of them utters a peep to joe paterno? is it believable that no one gives him a heads up about a
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mortal threat to his very program, to his status as king of state college. to briefly recap the allegation in 19989, victim 6, 11 years old at the time. according to the report, the coach took the boy to a campus shower, lathered him up with soap and bear hugged the boy. the boy's mother went to university police after she noticed his hair was wet after returning from a visit with sandusky. ronald schreffler got permission to eavesdrop on two conversations between coach sandusky and the mom. he told the mom, i was wrong, i wish i were dead. you have two police forces involved and an admission of wrongdoing. the county d.a. declined to bring charges. the child well fare investigator told the grand jury that sandusky admitted what he did was wrong. again, there is 19898.
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coach sandusky was joe paterno's right handman. he was accused of a serious crime. he admits wrongdoing, yet nothing further happens. his boss says he was never notified? we wantsed to know, was there a university procedure who should be told and when at that time? if so, was that ignored? were facts kept from paterno or is there reason to think he's being less than truthful. jerry larro, the child welfare investigator won't go on camera. when we asked lisa powers about it last week, she said, i don't have a comment to this question. it's my understanding that there is no formal protocol in place, these issues are handled on a case by case basis.
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that's not much help in determining how much joe paterno or other staff members knew. the new york times cited prosecutors, university counsel, a guy named wendell courtney knew of the 1998 alleged incident. prosecutors say he believed that penn state's athletic director tim curley knew of the investigation and allegation and was unsure if other people in senior positions at the university knew of the episode. curley was joe paterno's boss, he's now facing charges of lying to the grand jury about lying about what he had been told by jerry sandusky. joining us now is jason carroll and joe amadolla. what is sandusky saying in his defen defense? >> reporter: as you know, i spoke to his attorney for about an hour today. sandusky tells his attorney that yes he admits to showering with young buys, and yes, he regrets
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it. he says he did not sexually assault anyone. >> do you believe in his innocence? >> i do. i do. jerry sandusky is a big overgrown kid. he's a jock. for anybody who's ever played sports, you get showers after you work out. i mean, when people hear he got showers with kids, oh, my goodness, he got showers with kids, that makes him guilty, right? anyone who gets a shower with a kid who's an adult has to be guilty of something. the bottom line is, jocks do that, they kid around, horse around. in fact, what jerry says in regard to the one allegation involving what the assistant coach or the grad student said he saw. he said we were horsing around. we were not engaged in sexual activity. >> i want to wait before we go to that. talking about the showering, i think a lot of people have trouble with the idea -- >> agreed. >> -- of a man showering with a
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young boy. what are your thoughts on that? i mean -- >> i wouldn't do it, i'm sure you wouldn't do it. i would feel uncomfortable doing it. but jerry did that. but that's a far different thing than saying he got showers with kids than saying, that he committed these other acts which the prosecution is alleged he did. i mean, what's going to come out in this case is that jerry did get showers with kids. what i think happened, what i'm told happened, jerry was in the shower with this kid, the kid was messing around, having a good time. you had mcqueary come in and see that, he felt uncomfortable, which is exactly what curley and shultz are saying, he saw sandusky in the shower with a kid and he felt uncomfortable. >> can we go back to the 1998 incident? that is when allegedly according
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to the grand jury report jerry sandusky admitted to showering with that young boy in that incident and apologized for it, and said, i wish i were dead. when you look at that, the presumption is there that something happened, more than just showering. >> we have always disputed -- when i say we, jerry, because i wasn't involved in that case with him. he has always disputed he made that comment that he wished he were dead. >> okay. >> that's number one. number two, the apology was for simply getting a shower with the boy. do you know that young, young boy who's now a young man never ever said that jerry did anything sexual with him. the apology was to the boy's mother for getting a shower with him. not because he did anything sexual. and in fact not only did he have children services involved in that investigation, not only did
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the center county children and youth services folks investigate that case, the penn state police investigated that case. it was investigated by one of their most respected investigators who has since retired. they turned it over to the district attorney who went missing, but the district attorney at the time was a totally nonpolitical person, he didn't go to penn state, he was a prosecutor from cleveland, he was a career prosecutor who couldn't care less who you were, and couldn't care whether you were associated with penn state or penn state football. he invest gated that case and decided it was not a prosecutorable case. they're taking that in the context, well, then he did these other things. it's the old saying, if you throw enough mud on the wall, that some of it's going to stick. from my view, what the attorney general's office has done here
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is they've thrown everything they could throw up against the wall. and they're saying, look, all these accusations, some of them have to be true. when you take it apart, they don't even have victims in several of their cases. we're looking for those victims, and we may have some surprises for people. >> let's talk about that. there are many ugly serious allegations in that 23-page presentment by the grand jury. let's go over some of that step by step, what you can talk about. where do you see inconsistencies in these allegations? >> well, when you look at it, when you take it apart complaint by complaint, person by person, because they're allegedly eight supposed victims, and you look at what the allegations are. we have answers for each one of those. in two or three, even perhaps four of those. the allegation is, jerry put his hand on a boy's knee at some point in a car.
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got a shower with him, and gave him a bear hug, all of which i might add don't involve criminal activity even if believed. in two of the indications, two of the more serious allegations, they don't even have victims. they don't even have people who are saying this is what happened. they have other people who are saying they saw something. but they don't have actual people who said, this is what jerry did to me. we're working on finding those people, and when the time comes, if we are able to do that, we think this whole case will change dramatically. >> why do you think these people would be making these allegations? >> well, you know, you don't like to -- other than the fact that they might be true, which obviously is a possibility, none of us were there. but you have the money issue. you have the -- and now what's happening is, really sad, if there are more people coming out because they've heard about penn state being sued and obviously
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the university having big bucks we may never know who's real, who's not, or we may never know what allegations were basically fabricated because people are looking for some money. we may never have the answers to those questions. in terms of why people would do this, it's their time in the limelight. it's their time to have people pay attention to them. who knows? why do people make allegations that aren't true? you run into it, i run into it. we see it all the time in court proceedings where people allege something happened that didn't happen. >> tell me about what jerry -- >> he's destroyed. people are throwing bricks through his windows at home. i have calls coming in from the police saying, how do we protect him and his wife. i suggested that they basically get away for a while. but his response was, where do i go? i've been all over the news. people, no matter where i go, they're going to recognize me. where does he go?
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but he's distraught? he's absolutely devastated by what's happened to joe paterno. think about a person's career, the history that joe paterno's had not only at penn state, but as a national figure, and it's all gone down the tubes in less than a week. his legacy now will be this scandal. and the tragedy here is either way you go, if jerry did these horrible things, it's tragic that he's victimized these kids. if he didn't do them, it's tragic, because he's ruined forever, the reputation of an outstanding person -- not only of penn state history but joe paterno, who's been brought down by this. he's beside himself. and i worry for his well being, his health. you know, he's 67, he's not a young man. i'm very concerned about his well being. >> fascinating to hear the early rumblings of what the defense
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strategy may be. i think it's going to raise a lot of eyebrows when people hear his attorney say, that's what jocks do. i think there are jocks out there that would never shower with a child or do it late at night when no one else is around. did he have an argument for why mcqueary would speak out against sandusky? he testified to the grand jury saying he witnessed a rape by sandusky of this boy who appeared to be about 10 or 11. >> right, that would be mike mcqueary. and when i asked him about that, he basically told me, that's the $64,000 question. he said, he's looking for the opportunity to interview mcqueary, he's hoping to do that very soon. but ultimately what he's hoping to do is find victim number two, that is that 10-year-old or 11-year-old boy is identified in
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the grand jury report. he's hoping to find that person as well, talk to him about what happened that particular night. but right now, he's calling that the $64,000 question. >> jason, appreciate the reporting, as always. i want to bring in our legal panel, jeffrey tuben, sunny hostin and mark geragos. jeff, when you hear the attorney for this man saying that's what jocks do. is he doing his client any favors? >> i don't think that interview is very helpful, especially now. if the day comes when there's a trial, and you have to explain each incident away. it is better to say they took a shower together than to admit that sex took place in the shower. when you are admitting showering with a 10-year-old, you got a big problem already. and i think that just indicates the depth of the problem he has in this case. >> do you agree with that, sunny? >> yes. it's just remarkable to me what we just heard. and i try a lot of these child
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sex cases, the bottom line,this is classic. this is a classic fact pattern. these predators often times groom children. it starts with the touching, the hand on the knee, and it typically progresses. i've tried cases where pedophiles have showered with children. it's classic to me. if you speak to anyone who's tried these types of cases and anyone who's an expert in this area, they will tell you it's such a classic fact pattern for him to admit he showered with these children and horsed around, and confessed to touching them. i in my mind that's already misdemeanor child sex abuse. i agree when the attorney says nothing criminal happened. that in and of itself is criminal. i'm flabbergasted. >> mark, i know, it's the job of the defense attorney to defend his or her client. what do you make of this attorney's excuse for sandusky showering with young boys, this is just what jobs do, and it's what people do after they work
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out? >> well, remember some of the things he's said to what we've seen in the last nine days. i enjoy a good old fashioned media lynching, and that's what we've had here. is there anybody that gives a presumption of innocence at this point? no, you've seen a piling on of a degree that's almost unprecedented. and i think he's absolutely correct when he talks about look at what's happened to paterno in the span of nine days. i don't know what you would expect him to do at this point other than to try to stop some of the hemorrhaging that's been going on around his client. and, you know, a lot of this is so reminiscent to me personally of what happened when michael jackson was first -- the charges were first brought against him. do you remember, all of the talk about sleeping with young boys and everything else. and people saying, that in and of itself to quote your other
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guests here, that's exactly what they do when they groom people and everything else? this is deja vu. and he ended up being acquitted. before we go and say this is a done deal, and we condemn them and everything else. i think maybe we step back and take a deep bridge for a second. there is a pretty good point that is made there. you had a number of different agencies that investigated this in realtime years ago, that didn't file anything. i'm not saying that this guy is not guilty, but at the same time, he is entitled to a presumption of innocence. we still live in america, and it's a little disturbing to me, kind of the assumption of guilt here, because everything that penn state has done both to the president and everybody on down has presumed guilt in this case. and i just don't know that that's the american way. >> mark makes a good point about
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the presumption of innocence. back in the '80s, we had a spate of accusations of satanic abuse in day-care centers all of which -- >> this is very different. we're talking about eight victims, eyewitness accounts, we're talking about children. >> that's correct. >> in mcmartin -- there were 65 people -- >> the point i'm making is that when you have an accusation, if you simply say, let's think about the presumption of innocence, that's a legitimate thing for a defense attorney to say. when you start admitting he's taking showers with boys, you make more trouble than you solved. if he had simply said, it's a media lynching, it's outrageous, but when he starts explaining the conduct in a way that sounds awfully incriminating to me, i think that's a mistake for a defense attorney to make. >> i don't know that i necessarily disagree at all with what jeff's saying, the answer to the question when jason asked, what did he tell you is
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to say i can't talk about it, that's attorney/client and just move on from there. if i'm going to critique, and i hate to do that to other lawyers, that's probably a very good point. >> it is hard for anybody to accept the notion of an older man showering with a 10-year-old child, soaping him up, and horseplaying, naked in the shower. >> and several of them. admitting to doing it, that in and of itself is of concern, i think to so many people. we're also calling into question an adult interpretation of what happened. if you want to assume that that behavior is okay -- and it isn't okay. i firmly believe it isn't okay, i think there was criminal activity right then and there. you're talking about mcqueary who says he witnessed a child being raped. when we're talking about presumption of innocence. let's keep in mind that we have
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adults and children. adults that have testified in front of the grand jury under penalty of perjury and have again recounted what they've seen. >> jeff, sunny, mark, let us know what you think. we're on facebook, also google plus, you can add us to your circle. follow me on twitter. a lot of you are already talking on twitter right now about this. a lot more on the story, we're going to hear from a lawyer of an alleged victim of jerry sandusky, and listen to jerry sandusky himself, why he once said his charity is so important to him. raw politics, rick perry's brain freeze? we have herman cain's version of it. that's what some people are calling his answer to a foreign policy question on libya today. months after the tsunami, months after japan's nuclear nightmare began, how much damage is being done? a new study out tonight has some
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very sobering answers. that and much more when 360 continues. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 there are atm fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and the most dreaded fees of all, hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, you won't pay fees on top of fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no monthly account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and we rebate every atm fee. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck tdd# 1-800-345-2550 because when it comes to talking, there is no fee.
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ask a financial professional about how pacific life's more than 140 years of experience can bring strength to your team. pacific life - the power to help you succeed. a vacation on a budget with expedia. make it work. booking a flight by itself is an uh-oh. see if we can "stitch" together a better deal. that's a hint, antoine. ooh! see what anandra did? booking your flight and hotel at the same time gets you prices hotels and airlines won't let expedia show separately. book it. major wow factor! where you book matters. expedia. breaking news tonight the penn state sex abuse scandal, lawyer for jerry sandusky speaking out for the first time
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here on "360" laying out a defense that includes describing the alleged raped of a 10-year-old boy as horsing around in the shower. sandusky is charged with 40 counts of child sex abuse. the grand jury report identifies eight alleged victims. this is new video of him surrounded by kids at his second mile charity. given the allegations against him, seems like these are -- well, you look at them in a whole different way. fair or not, his statements like this one from 2007, five years after the alleged shower rape now ring hollow. >> it's been an opportunity -- it's an opportunity for me, you know, to have have been touched by so many great people that volunteered their time and energy and opportunity to see some special young people overcome some challenges in their life and go on to lead a life of excellence. >> well, it's hard to comprehend just how twisted that statement would be if the charges against him are true. if. earlier i spoke with ben andreozzi an attorney representing one of the victims of sandusky and also with the director of the national centers for the victim of crime.
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ben, we just heard from jerry sandusky's lawyer who maintains his client is innocent and suggests that sandusky was a jock and was kidding around in the shower. and this is what jocks do, they shower together. would your client call what sandusky did kidding around? >> absolutely not. i've got to be honest, it's very disappointing to hear that sort of reaction. i had hoped that we would get a different reaction from his attorney, but i guess he's got a job to do. so from my client's perspective, to answer your question, no, he would not agree with that statement. >> when you hear this attorney saying, well, this is what guys -- what jocks do, what do you think? >> i think it's kind of outrageous that somebody would say something like that. it's a slap in the face to athletes around the country. and i think that what lass been alleged in this is not joking around. >> ben, how is your client doing? i mean, i can't imagine not only what he's been through, but also just seeing the aftermath of it. >> it's been extremely difficult
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for him he's coming to grips with the sexual abuse itself which is emotional enough. but in combination with that, he's also seeing the complications of coming forward and the impact that coming forward is having on the penn state community. you know, jerry sandusky essentially intertwined some of these children, who are actually victims in this case, into the penn state football community, and in recent weeks we've seen what's happened with the penn state football program, and that has been extremely difficult for my client to watch. >> what do you make of not just obviously what he did but the actions or lack of actions of a whole host of people on the penn state staff? >> well, i think that's exactly what this case highlights, anderson. i think that when institutions don't create a culture where staff and visitors and people
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working in the institution feel encouraged to come forward when there is any kind of allegation or any suspicion of abuse, that's a real lack of leadership. it's really important for institutions and leaders inside those institutions to create a culture that says, if you see anything that's going on with a child, if you suspect anything that's going on with a child, come forward and tell us. >> ben, at this point, do you thing we know all there is to know about how many alleged victims there may be out there? >> absolutely not. i think in a case like this, what you're seeing is there were a few select victims who had the courage to come forward, and it's my sincere hope that others see that people have mustered up this courage to come forward and it encourages them themselves to say it's okay to step forward and do what's right, which is going to be, i believe, to put
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mr. sandusky behind bars for the rest of his life. >> ben, and mai, i appreciate you being on. you're extraordinarily busy. please give our best to your client. and his family. thank you. >> thank you. let's go to cory giger from "the altoona mirror" and sports columnist christine brennan as well. when you heard his attorney saying that jocks like to horse around in the shower. what goes through your mind? >> okay. well, guys on a team of the same age might take showers together and might slap towels or what have you, if you're in a locker room with guys on a team, you'll see that. but a man in his mid-50s should never be alone in a shower with a young boy who is 10 or however old this young boy might have been. you have to have standards and protocols in place. unless that kid is your son, there's no way any man of that age should be alone in a shower with a boy that young. >> christine, when you heard sandusky's lawyer saying this, what did you think?
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>> complete shock, anderson. the same thing that cory just said. this is a 10-year-old boy. this is not the 20-year-old quarterback. of course it sounds like kids were around the penn state football program all the time in the company of jerry sandusky if the allegations are true and the grand jury report is true. so this was, you know, this is something that apparently jerry sandusky was doing quite often. and it's just appalling and alarming. as joe paterno is in charge. he is penn state football. and i think he's ultimately responsible for everything that goes on on his watch and as the venerable coach of that team. so the fact that this is all going on and then that's the excuse? it's appalling. that's really shocking and seems to slap right back at those victims and they get to go through this all over again, unfortunately. >> cory, it is hard to believe that in 1998, allegations by the mom was made and they're investigated by multiple
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different agencies, that joe paterno isn't informed of what is a potentially major threat to his program. >> yeah. it's hard to believe that joe -- i said on your program the other day, there's no reason to believe that joe did not know what was going on with the 1998 allegations. they're so similar in 2002 with another shower involved and another young boy involved. so the similarity of the two is really eerie. and you would think that they would all have learned from the 1998 incident regardless of if there were charges or not. the fact that it happens again four years later, i'll take christine's word, that's just appalling and a complete lack of oversight. >> christine, you don't think this is the worst scandal in the history of college sports, you think it's going to turn out to be the worst scandal in the history of u.s. sports? >> i do, anderson. i know that's quite a thing to say at this point, but because of the magnitude, because it's penn state, it's joe paterno and this institution -- >> do you think all the coaches are going to go? >> i do. i think there has to be a complete housecleaning at penn
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state. anyone who was involved in this, you have to wonder about the board of trustees, and other officials. i think it's that bad. but yes, there has to be a complete housecleaning in the football program. >> you think anybody on the staff at the time may end up going? >> i do. we don't know exactly what we're going to find out completely. so the legal process will take its course. but i think that penn state has to deal with this before then. the culture, this incredible stunning, awful, revolting culture that apparently has been going on there for years, clean house. start from scratch. >> cory giger, christine brennan, thank you. more fallout from the penn state sex abuse scandal. the first advertiser pulls ads from penn state games. details on that coming up. also the violence hasn't stopped in syria. for the first time a leader calls for president assad to step down. that and the herman cain brain freeze.
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isha is back following important stories. >> anderson, for the first time an arab leader is calling for syria's president to resign. jordan's king abdullah urged him to step down as the eight-month crackdown continues. the united nations says more than 3,500 syrians have been killed. a new study finds that radioactive fallout from the disaster at japan's fukushima daiichi power plant is likely to leave farming severely impaired in the province where the plant is located. farming in other provinces in eastern and northern japan is also expected to suffer according to the researchers. as expected, the supreme court has agreed to rule on the constitutionality of the health care reform law that congress passed last year.
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the law's individual mandate is a key issue for the justices. a ruling is expected in june. anderson, look at this. seaworld orlando, a pilot whale rescued in may after she beached herself has been fitted with a custom brace to straighten a deformed spine. she has a condition known as scoliosis which keeps her from swimming normally. the first time a device of this sort has ever been used on a whale that size. >> that's amazing. raw politics next, herman cain, kind of an amazing moment caught on tape. you can judge for yourself. newt gingrich in a virtual tie with front-runner mitt romney. [ man ] i got this citi thank you card
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awkward moment for herman cain was caught on tape. the video's gone viral. he was meeting today with the editorial board of the milwaukee wisconsin journal cen continuingal. he was asked about president obama's libyan policy. here's what he said. >> president obama supported the uprising, correct? president obama called for the removal of gadhafi. just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing before i say yes i agree, i know i didn't agree. i do not agree with the way he handled it for the following reasons. no, that's a different one.
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i got to go back and see. i've got all this stuff twirling around in my head. specifically what are you asking me did i agree or not disagree with obama? >> cain eventually said that president obama had not done enough to determine who the opposition was in libya. not the first time cain has struggled on matters of foreign policy. the gaffe came as his popularity fell 11 points in a new national poll. cain has dropped to third place behind mitt romney and former house speaker newt gingrich. romney's two-point lead is within the poll sampling leader. cain is two points ahead of rick perry. how did newt gingrich basically tie up the race seven weeks ahead of the iowa caucus? joining me are ari fleischer and paul begala. paul, i got to start with you on this moment by herman cain. the whole answer goes on for about five minutes.
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i mean, it is painful to watch. what do you make of it? >> it may not be a full-on brain freeze, but it was at least a slushy, wasn't it. give mr. cain free advice, this is maybe advice that fleischer came up with. when george w. bush was debating al gore, gore knew a lot more about foreign policy than the governor of texas did. you know what he did in the debate? i went back and looked at the transcript. ari, you'll love this. it was a brilliant performance. on so many issues bush surprised gore by saying i agree with president clinton on this. yugoslavia, a triumph. he said that clinton was right about rwanda, israel. east timor, which i don't know if he knew anything about, didn't matter. i think president clinton got it right. if herman cain had said i agree with president obama, let's talk about my 9-9-9 plan, it would have been much better.
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>> ari, you agree with that? >> what i agree is it's very hard to run for the presidency and make it your first time you hold elective office. i said this about herman cain for a while. he's an exciting outsider but he needed to have more strong credentials by having run and won. and it would give him a different approach about how he gets ready for substantive issues. that's really the problem here, anderson. >> take a look at what this new cnn poll found. almost half the country doesn't think he should even be in the race at all, even among republican, almost a third say it's time for him to go. i mean, is this the tip of the iceberg, is this a downward trend now? >> well, downward trend, yes, herman cain has been on a downward trend since the allegations broke against him and he doesn't have a strong enough wall beneath him to propel him forward in case anything like this broke in the public eye. i don't think he has to drop out of politics. people in politics need to resist the perception, just because you had a bad day or a bad week, you need to quit. these races are marathon. the strong ones keep going
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through it. so many on the top have fallen behind and people who were dead are now coming back. nothing says people can't turn things around. that's the test of a campaign. >> paul, people have written off newt gingrich months ago. he's now not just up, his support has almost tripled. is he just the latest anybody but romney candidate? or could this be a start of the real shot at the nomination? >> at least i think it is this abr phenomenon now, anybody but romney. they had their flirtation with donald trump, then michele bachmann. then it was governor perry, and mr. cain, and now apparently it's newt. something there is doesn't love mitt romney. it's three-fourths of the republican party. i don't know why. maybe ari can us. they just don't want to be for him. they're looking for a fresh face, you think of a guy who is 68 years old and first ran for congress when nixon was president. >> it's also called math. when there are eight candidates in a race and one person has a 25, 28% plurality and the rest or closely divided, it's the way numbers work out.
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it's interesting in that poll that mitt romney has a three-point lead over barack obama. so i do think at the end of the day as this campaign goes along, the fact that somebody can beat barack obama becomes tremendously important, makes that person even more attractive, but there's still two months to go in this republican race. i don't discount that this is going to continue to be topsy-turvy. only about 30% of the people in the cnn poll said they strongly support their candidate. there's a lot of room for change in the republican race. it's that volatile. >> it's interesting. thank you very much. the republican presidential candidate will face off again at the cnn republican national security debate on november 22nd at 8:00 p.m. eastern, just a week from tomorrow live from washington. coming up, more arrests today in the kidnapping of wilson ramos in venezuela. we'll have the latest on the investigation, and hear what ramos had to say after he was rescued. the latest on the search for a 2-year-old boy missing from outside seattle. what police are saying about the
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hundreds of tips they're getting in the case when we continue. ♪ sen♪ co-signed her credit card - "buy books, not beer!" ♪ ♪ut the second at she shut the door ♪ ♪ girl started blowing up their credit score ♪ ♪ she bought a pizza party for the whole dorm floor ♪ ♪ hundred pounds of makeup at the makeup store ♪ ♪ and a ticket down to spring break in mexico ♪ ♪ but her folks didn't know 'cause her folks didn't go ♪ ♪ to free-credit-score-dot-com hard times for daddy and mom. ♪ v.o.: offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com
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starting within 5 minutes. and that makes a difference in my breathing. today i'm back with my favorite team. ask your doctor about symbicort. i got my first prescription free. call or click to learn more. [ male announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. i tell you what i can spend. i do my best to make it work. i'm back on the road safely. and i saved you money on brakes. that's personal pricing. crime and punishment tonight, the saga of a major league baseball player kidnapped in venezuela. wilson ramos was reunited with his family after being rescued friday in a mountainous area about 60 miles away from where gunmen kidnapped him from his mom's house two days earlier. five new suspects were arrested today. the total number of people detained to 11.
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according to venezuela's justice ministry. after the rescue, ramos had this to say. >> i want to say thanks, nats fans, for everything, for your support. i'm very happy with my mom. i'm saved now. that was a hard time for me, but i'm very, very happy with my mom right now. you know, i want to say thank you for everything and i see you in spring training. >> cnn international anchor luis carlos velez joins us on the investigation. the chavez regime had released a few details. but it seemed to be suggesting that a colombian man with ties to paramilitary was behind the plot. have we been able to verify that? >> we have not been able to do that. keep in mind this is a country with no free media. no no independent power to investigate what really happened.
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obviously venezuelans are happy that wilson ramos is home, he's safe. but there are many people who question what really happened here. they say this was just too good, too perfect to be a true rescue operation, anderson. >> that's interesting. venezuela has produced a lot of great professional baseball players over the years including several all-stars. kidnappings have been on the rise in venezuela. they've got to be concerned about their safety any time they go back. >> absolutely. kidnapping is becoming a common practice in venezuela. there were no numbers available for 2011. but last year, the number the government said that there were 686 kidnappings in the country. the practice is so widespread that there's even a movie about what is locally known as sequestro express, anderson, kidnapping express, where people are kidnapped for a short period of time by criminals that demand money. they kidnap you and call your family and demand a modest ransom, not one that's so extravagant that a family would have trouble paying.
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i've seen it. i have friends and family who have been victims of it. venezuela is a very difficult country. >> reporting those kidnappings in mexico as well all across the economic spectrum. thank you for the reporting. up next, a different crimes story, the case of the stolen bike and the owner who fought back. that is the ridiculist. first, isha with a 360 bulletin. anderson, police in bellevue, washington say they've received 900 tips in the search for a missing 2-year-old. they've expanded the search at the apartment where he lived with his mother and a wooded area where she told police she last saw her son nine days ago, after she left him alone in a car. the website cars.com pulled its ad from saturday's game against nebraska and will do the same this coming weekend in the game against ohio state. and the entire nba season could be in jeopardy. players have rejected the owner's latest offer and started the procession of disbanding the union. accept it.
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time now for the ridiculist, and tonight we're adding the guy who stole this lady's bike. she's the most clever thing on two wheels. she managed to track down her stolen bike by herself and steal it back. her bike was stolen from outside a bar in boulder. she went on craigslist and found a posting for a bike for sale, her bike. she called the guy and asked if
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she could go for a test ride. >> i knew it was my bike, i kept riding it, rode it to my car, threw it in my car and drove away. >> after she completed her one woman sting operation. police told her for future reference, she probably shouldn't take the law into her own handlebars. we love her moxie. sometimes the police just don't take bike theft quite as seriously as the victim does. >> what exactly leads you to believe the soviets were involved? >> well, i know that -- >> look, let me be hon effort with you. hundreds of bikes are stolen every month. very few of them are ever recovered, we just don't have the resources. >> you're saying you can't do in addition? my bike means everything to me. >> peewee is not alone, not by a longshot. many people don't bother reporting them when their bikes get swiped. no one is immune.
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lance armstrong had a bike stolen a few years ago. i don't think we're talking about a chain and padlock here. sean bradley had his bike stolen too, he's 7'6", the bike was custom made. it's about 50% larger than a normal bike. those guys both got their bikes back, but we're not all that lucky. i too have been a victim of bike theft. >> i talked to a doorman on the block where it was stock market stolen. oh, yeah, i saw it being stolen. probably was stolen at night. it was parked on -- it was chained very aggressively to a parking poll with a sign saying, don't park here. those things are like eight, ten feet tall. he came with a box, got on the

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