Skip to main content

tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  November 16, 2011 8:00pm-9:00pm EST

8:00 pm
years, you know, what would that do? make hill for bitter, more angry and come out and do something worse? >> pretty incredible. thank you, and certainly something that's inspiring for many of us, certainly for me, reading that book. thanks again. >> thank you very much. thanks to all of you for watching. have a good night. anderson cooper 360 parts now. erin, thank you very much. we begin keeping them honest. with new developments in the penn state abuse scandal. more evidence that there's still much more to this story, much more people are covering up about what they knew and when they knew it. you're also going to hear a mom's account of what her son is going through. he's the boy right now known simply as victim one in the grand jury report detailing jerry sandusky's he alleged 15-year string of serial abuse. he was the first to come forward, this boy was, three years ago. that's why he's called victim number one, though according to the grand jury he was not the
8:01 pm
fist victim. he started the landslide that brought down sandusky, joe paterno, penn state's president, senior vice president for business and the school's athletic director. his mother says he's brave, but tonight he's afraid that people might find out who he is, afraid he might run into jerry sandusky, who's out on bail, afraid he may ultimately go free. but that's not all she's saying tonight. she's also describing to us the pressure she faced from people who tried to get her not to go to police. pressure from community members, from teachers she says, from people she trusted to put kids first and not defend jerry sandusky. you'll hear more of her story in a moment from her own mouth. also tonight, john walsh joins us from "america's most wanted". first, though, the shifting account of this man, penn state's wide receiver coach michael mcqueary, a grad assistant in 2002. that's when he said he walked in on sandusky raping a 10 or
8:02 pm
11-year-old boy in a shower. according to the grand jury report, quote, went to his office and called his father, reporting to him what he'd seen, talking about mcqueary. then the next day, a saturday, he told joe paterno. about a week and a half later, according to the grand jury report, mcqueary was debriefed by athletic director tim curley and gary schultz. schultz, by the way, also oversaw the university police. now, there's no mention in the 23-page report that mcqueary ever contacted campus mreels or law enforcement or is there any mention that he tried to stop the rape or protect the children. yet now in an e-mail he sent, former penn state teammates, mcqueary is claiming he did both. quote, i did stop it, not physically but made sure it was stopped when i left that locker room. in the e-mail which was obtained by the newspaper, he goes on to claim, quote, i did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police.
8:03 pm
not only is there no mention of that in the grand jury document, cnn contributor sara gannon reports that her newspaper, the patriot news, has seen a copy of mcqueary's handwritten events which he made for 0 police during the investigation. she verified it with a source cleas close to that investigation. that behind written account is consistent with the grand jury's report. in it mcqueary makes no mention of intervening during the alleged rape or talk to any police officers. what's more, spokesmen at the university say they have no memory of mcqueary filing a police report. that of course raises questions about his credibility questions and also raises questions about top ten penn state's officials and the university's lack of believability, lack of transparency. to start with, the judge was replaced. that's a pretty symbolic and frankly small step all things considered. here's why. this is important. now that we're 11 days into this story and some of the details
8:04 pm
might be getting hard to follow, if the allegations against sandusky are true, at least seven children were sexually abuse after the first reported incident. seven children since the first time university officials were told about it. and for reasons not entirely clear chose to look away. we're going to keep asking questions on those until those reasons get clear. yesterday our drew griffin went looking for answers. he didn't get a lot of cooperation. ette joins us from state college. drew, what did you find out today? >> reporter: anderson, yesterday we told you about this exemption that penn state has. they don't have to release documents which are usually public, justs about everywhere else in the united states of america. so today we went looking for the people, those officials, who should have, would have and most likely did know about these allegations against sandusky way back, the three officials in particular, former university president, graham spanier,
8:05 pm
counsel wednesday al courtney and the former police chief who's name is tom hartman, way back in 1998 these three people according to the grand jury most likely did know about the allegations that that mother was bringing forward that sandusky was showering naked with her son. and, in fact, a police investigation was launched but that former police chief decided, according to the grand jury report, to abruptly end the investigation. we went looking for him today. he works at an architectural and engineering firm now which has an office not far from where i'm standing. this company does a lot of business with penn state university. this is what happened when we went inside trying toed find him. is mr. harmon in? >> he he's not. he does not work in this office. he works out of his home. >> reporter: does he have an office number? i mean, a number that if someone at this office -- >> we can't provide it that
8:06 pm
information. sorry. >> reporter: you can't provide that information? >> no. no. >> reporter: via e-mail, tom harmon did eventually get back to us. this is what he said, not much, he can't discuss the matter citicit citing an ongoing investigation. neighbors say he moved from his home. >> did you go try to speak to the former legal counsel for penn state, du ta did you talk ? >> reporter:tried. wendell courtney, private attorney in town. he was university counsel in 1998 when the allegations surfaced. he actually gave a blessing for that initial investigation into sandusky. oddly enough, he went on to become the attorney for the second mile foundation, jerry sandusky's charity. we did go to had his office. we walked right through the front door, asked to see him. he was in but he wouldn't come
8:07 pm
out. instead he sent out an attorney and he told us to get off the property. they would not talk to us and just we also tried to talk to the current police chief. that was yesterday. this is the current police chief of the university. take a look at this. >> is the chief in? >> i'm not sure. turn the camera off. >> reporter: turn the camera off, right? we didn't turn the camera off. we sat there for about an hour. we were told then the chief would come out and talk to us. he didn't. he was behind the counter talking to us via cell phone. i was trying to ask him questions. take a look. he wouldn't answer any single question i gave him. are you concerned at all that members of your department may have helped cover this thing up? again he, no answer from the
8:08 pm
current police chief, frt former police chief. this is all because, as we reported last night, penn state has an exemption. they don't have to tell us us a thing. >> an exemption that it they look lobbied for at the state. there were other agencies involved here, including the pennsylvania department of child welfare. is there no one talking there either? >> reporter: yeah. we've tried to track down all these various pell. t -- people the vector investigator in 1998 reached out to me. this is what he said in a text message, i'm sorry, i cannot say anymore as i am bound by confidentiali confidentiality. good luck with your investigation. then this, please do not contact me again. i should also mention, ander he son, we tried to track down the former university president, he still lives in the president's mansion here at the university, private road, private residence. we've left two messages. we've askeded the university why
8:09 pm
he he still lives here. we just are not getting any answers. >> drew, keep at it. appreciate it. now victim one's story. you know, i do think it's important in all of the coverage of this not to lose sight of the victims here, the alleged victims, the people that we know about, stories that more people may be coming forward. as of now, eight victims, alleged victims, identified by the grand jury report. victim number one was 11 or 12 when he met jerry sandusky, may have been 10, through the second mile program. according to the grand jury, sandusky took the boy to pro college sport events, gave him gifts including golf clubs, a computer. invited him to his house for sleep-overs. that's when the grand jury report details the alleged abuse, sandusky getting into bed with the boy, saying he was going to crack his back and then fondling him, eventually having oral sex with him numerous times. there were other alleged incidents at the high school where so-called victim one was a freshman and sandusky volunteered on the football
8:10 pm
coaching staff. he was volunteering on the koechbing staff of this young man's high school or middle school. i spoke with the young man's mom a short time ago. we've altered her voice because she and her son are living in fear. how are you? how is your son doing? >> well, we're doing okay, i mean, i guess as well as can be expected. i don't know. >> i understand your son heard jerry sandusky's interview on nbc on monday night. what was his reaction? >> he was upset. he was very upset about it. he said -- i didn't watch it at the time. i watched it when it was on, and he watched it after that. he said that -- he cried and i said, why are you crying? he said, because i'm afraid he might go free. >> he's afraid that sandusky might go free. >> yeah. >> what was your reaction to it?
8:11 pm
>> i thought it made him look worse. >> does it make any sense to you at all when he says that he was showering naked with boys, that he -- it was just horseplay? >> no. no. i don't think that showering naked with any little boy would be horseplay. >> i've read the grand jury testimony about what your son has said, testified, happened. assuming it's all true, he's really a hero because, had he not k not come forward, we would not know about all of these other alleged victims. >> oh, he definitely is a hero. he is. he's a brave kid and he really, really -- for a long time we thought -- he thought he was the only one, you know? he thought that we were basically just on our own. then as more victims came out, you know he, he started feeling
8:12 pm
a little bit better about that. but, you know, it's been -- >> explain -- i just want to play one of the things that sandusky said and get your reaction to it. >> are you a pedophile? >> no. >> are you sexually attracted to young boys? to underage boys? >> am i sexually attracted to underage boys? >> yes. >> sexually attracted? i enjoy young people. i love to be around them. i -- but, no, i'm not sexually attracted to young boys. >> the answer to that question has raised a lot of eyebrows, the way he answered it. what did you think of that? >> i think that -- i don't exactly know what to think about that other than, i mean, it seems to me that that's -- he's
8:13 pm
a sick individual. he's sick. he can't even -- i see it as him not even be able to straightforward answer the question. >> you think the straightforward answer would be, no, i'm not attracted to young boys, but he didn't do that? >> no. no. >> when did you start to realize something was troubling your son? >> well, i guess it was the long haul of clues his behavior. he went from being a great child to being ornery and being arrogant and mean and we had a lot of different -- we he stast having disagreements. several times i asked the school to talk to him, and they said,
8:14 pm
oh, there's no man in my house. he's just trying to stake his place in the world. he's just -- that's what teenagers do. but when he started withdrawing from -- he started asking me to lie had when people called the house. >> after a while, he didn't want to see sandusky anymore and sandusky would call and he would ask you to lie, ask you to say he wasn't around? >> yes. >> and that started -- that made you suspicious? >> yes, very suspicious. then out of the blue one day he was sitting at the computer and -- >> he wanted to do a search about sex weirdos? >> yeah. he asked me what the web site to look them up was. i told them it was megan's law. heed sa esaid, how do i type it? i gave him the web address. i said, who are you looking for? he said, jerry.
8:15 pm
i was, like, wow, what are you looking hi looking him up for? he's, like, i don't know, i just want to see if he was on there. i said, why would he be on there? i said, do you have something to tell me? what is going on? and he said that -- he said, i don't know, sometimes he acts weird so i wanted to see if he was on there. that was the end of that conversation. >> so he actually wanted to search under jerry sandusky's name on a site for sexual offenders. >> yeah. >> wow. >> so that was like a big clue to me. >> we're going to have more of my conversation after the break including the lengths she says sandusky went to to try to have access to had her son. >> i never gave my permission for him to take my son out of class or to leave the school with my child, but he did.
8:16 pm
>> let us know what you think. we're on facebook, google plus as well. follow me on twitter as well. i'll be tweeting tonight. later our legal panel weighs in on mike mcqueary's credibility as a witness, joe paterno's story that he knew nothing about sandusky's trance glegss until 2002. also john walsh joins us. kids opening fire at the white house. we'll have the latest what we know about this man, details ahead.
8:17 pm
8:18 pm
8:19 pm
before the break you hearded from the mother of one of jerry sandusky's victims called victim one in the grand jury report. she talked about how her son first broached the possibility that something was wrong and sandusky was not what he seemed to be. now her antenna was p up, but as you hear her say, nothing could prepare her or her son for what was to come. >> jerry was also volunteering at your son's school helping coach the football team. >> right. >> and he had a lot of privileges at the school so he could call students actually out of class? >> i guess. i really that without parental consent he shouldn't be able to do that. i never gave my permission for my son to get out of class and leave the school with him. but he did.
8:20 pm
>> and how soon after your son said that he wanted to search for jerry's name on a sex offender list, how soon then did the story come out finally? >> i would say within a few days after that. >> do you know what jerry was doing when with he called your son out of class? >> i have no idea. >> but he would meet with him? >> i guess, yeah. >> and finally, how did you learn what had happened? >> the school -- i called the school and i had brought to their attention about jerry calling him out of class and things like that, and the school was -- they said, oh, well, you know, it's not uncommon for him to do that. i said, okay, let's look at this because i had already talked to this and told them that i had a suspicion of something but i didn't want to accuse anybody of anything. but i just -- something was off.
8:21 pm
and i said, you know, i told her, i'll not going to accuse him of that because, you know, i just -- what i want you to do is i want him to stop taking him out of class, number one. number two, i want you to pull him down to the office and just ask him how he feels. that's what i told them to do. >> and what happened when they did that? >> well, when they did, the principal had called me in tears and she was crying, i could tell she was crying, told me to get to the school right away. so i went to the school and met with the guidance counselor and the principal. and when i did they told me that my son had said some things about -- that there was a problem with jerry and he didn't know -- he didn't really admit
8:22 pm
anything at that point that was -- he just said he thought he needed to tell somebody or it would get worse. >> that's a really brave thing for him to have said. >> and then -- yeah, it is. and then the principal said, oh, you know, jerry has a heart of gold. >> the principal said that to you, that jerry has a heart of gold? >> yes. yes. and that -- and i said, listen -- i was very upset, i extremely upset and i was basically yelling at them that they needed to call the police. i said, i want you to call the police, call the police right now. i said it like three times, call the police right now. they said no. you need to think -- they said i needed to think about the ramifications of what would happen if i did that. >> what do you think they meant by that? >> i don't know.
8:23 pm
i guess -- i'm assuming what we're going through now. i don't really know. >> what do you want to see happen to jerry sandusky? >> i want jerry san dusk canfdu to jail for the rest of his life. >> would that be justice? >> i don't even know, to tell you the truth. at this point i don't even know. >> i'm glad you were willing to talk and tell us what you've been through and your son as well. thank you. >> you're welcome. late this evening we got a response from the alleged victim's school system, the district's lawyer david lindsay saying he doesn't have time to respond to specific allegations but sent this statement, quote, due to the ongoing nature of the investigation and prosecution of jerry sandusky, it would be inappropriate for the keystone central district to provide any comment at this time. the statement continues, nonetheless, the school district has been and will continue to be fully cooperative with authorities in this matter. let's bring in our legal panel, jeffrey toobin, defense attorney
8:24 pm
mark geragos and former prosecutor sunny hostin. jeff, talking to this alleged victim's mom, i couldn't help wonder if her son had never come forward, these allegations against sandusky could still be under wraps. >> it is just so astonishing how many people knew some piece of this story and yet it was only 11 days ago it that he was arrested. i mean, the years that have passed since 1998 and, as you have pointed out, the number of children who apparently have been abuse since 1998, it just makes you crazy. >> mark, i've enjoyed having you on the program the last couple of nights because you keep, from a defense lawyer standpoint, raising very good points, you bring up the preschool and rush to judgment back then. the mother also said that hearing sandusky's interview on nbc news made her and her son more determined than ever to testify against him. do you think that interview has already kind of backfired on the
8:25 pm
defense? >> well, the interview with him i think was not helpful. we said that the other day. the question that i have is, there's two other stories. i know that it doesn't pertain directly to the interview you just had, but my understanding is that the attorney general has now filed something saying they're not ready to proceed on the preliminary hearing against the school president, which i find to be fascinating. why is it that if the ag was in such a hurry to prosecute this thing that they're not ready to proceed? and i have, you know, other questions as to why it is at this point that people are saying this happened, that happened, i listened to that interview and he was saying -- the mother was saying, i was going to -- i begged them to call the police. well, why didn't the parents call the police? i'm as perplexed as everybody else, but for a lot of other different reasons, you know? there is a phenomena of piling on at a certain point.
8:26 pm
i don't know, you don't know, none of us know what the real truth is here. but there's a lot of things that strike me as very peculiar. >> she said she actually -- when the principal wouldn't call the police, she took her child and they immediately went to child welfare and that's how the police were finally involved. to hear, sunny, this mom claim that she was basically being pressured not to go to the police or at least to consider that jerry sandusky has a heart of gold by a school official is pretty surprising. >> you know, it's not surprising to me because, again, child sex crimes are always shrouded in secrecy. people don't want to talk about it, touch it. they start thinking about themselves and their personal exposure, the exposure of the school, because they let jerry sandusky take this child out. all sorts things come into play instead of what is best for the children, what is best for the victims. so actually i'm not surprised that the mother was pressured. i'll not surprised that she didn't immediately call the police because people he don't
8:27 pm
want to believe these things happen. but they happen all the time. they happen every day. they happen every hour to a child in our country. and i know this and you know this,ed anderson because i spent a lot of my career prosecuting these kind of cases. unfortunately i'll not surprised at all that this is what's happened. >> well, then how do you explain that supposedly she said, call the police, screaming at them three times,s and then she didn't call the police? or the father didn't call the police? i mean, something -- >> but what she -- >> doesn't make a lot of sense. >> what she did is she said to her child right then, grab your backpack, we're leaving and literally didn't drive home. she drove straight off to child welfare and an officer met her at her house. >> right. why didn't she call 911? why didn't she call the police? why was she screaming at somebody else to call the police? if she was that concerned -- >> mark, that's not fair. >> that isn't fair. >> jeff? >> you can siay it's not fair.
8:28 pm
there's been nothing fair about the coverage of this case. >> she went to child welfare. i don't think that's significantly different from going to the police. >> exactly. >> if i could just -- >> she didn't scream, go to child welfare, go to child welfare. >> can i raise one thing that i think is very significant today? >> go ahead. >> mcqueary's e-mail saying, in fact, he did go to the police, i think this is a classic example of why prosecutors tell their witnesses, don't talk about the case, don't give interviews. it's frustrating to us. he is generating material for him to be cross-examined on at trial. he appears now to have told contradictory stories. >> exactly. >> that is a big problem. >> jeff, that was the other story that was out today. it's a huge problem it that you've got the person who supposedly is the eyewitness, they don't have -- >> it's not necessarily contradicto contradictory. >> it's contradictory when the police say he never contacted them. it's not contradictory? >> no. perhaps there's such a cover-up no report was filed, no report
8:29 pm
was taken. but in terms of -- >> right. three police departments decided to deep-six the report. >> there's no transcript for the grand jury because of course grand jury proceedings are secret. all we have is this presentment, basically a summary or report. it's quite possible in front of the grand jury he did discuss his police encounter. >> we've got to go. jeff, sunny, mark, thanks. up next, john walsh on how pedophiles think. >> they never have any remorse. they're great liars. they work themselves into society. lots of them are respected and admired by the people in that society. but they're still pedophiles and it's a compulsion. >> also tonight, newt gingrich on the defense about his former relationship with mortgage giant freddie mac. he criticized democrats from taking money from the company. freddie mac paid ahim close to $2 million. we have the raw politics ahead. ugh, my sinus congestion,
8:30 pm
and it's your fault. instead of blaming me try advil congestion relief. often the real problem is swelling, not mucus. advil congestion relief reduces swelling due to nasal inflammation. so i can breathe. [ mucus ] advil congestion relief. that is better than today. since 1894, ameriprise financial has been working hard for their clients' futures. never taking a bailout. helping generations achieve dreams.
8:31 pm
buy homes. put their kids through college. retire how they want to. ameriprise. the strength of america's largest financial planning company. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you, one-to-one. together, for your future. ♪ and here's what we did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy... we're at work providing power to almost a quarter of our homes and businesses... ... and giving us cleaner rides to work and school... and tomorrow, we could do even more. cleaner, domestic, abundant and creating jobs now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power, today. learn more at
8:32 pm
8:33 pm
a new clip from that stunning interview jerry sandusky did with nbc's bob costas. had when sandusky decided to speak out about the charges and his lawyer allowed him to, a window opened. people are asking, is it a window into the mind of a wrongly accused man or a monster. the moment that raised the moment eyebrows -- >> are you a pedophile? >> no. >> are you sexually attracted to young boys, underage boys? >> am i sexually attracted to had underage boys? >> yes. >> sexually attracted? i enjoy young people. i love to be around them. i -- but, no, i'm not sexually attracted to young boys. >> that's the clip you're
8:34 pm
familiar with, the rambling answer that got people talking. here's the new clip from the nbc interview bob costass asked jerry sandusky if his actions were like a pedophile. >> i didn't seek out every young person for sexual needs that i helped. there are many that i didn't have hardly any contact with who i have helped in many, many ways. >> joining us is john walsh who's seen his share of predators and people falsely accused stateme d d at the same. he's the host of "america's most wanted." john, we just heard the new clip nbc hadn't released that said sandusky had a lot of people that he helped that he had no contact with. many, not all. what do you think? >> i think it's appalling. the charity second mile has done some really wonderful work, but it was his private had huunting
8:35 pm
grounds. he's the classic pedophile, no remor remorse, don't think they do anything wrong. they are great liars, work themselves into society, lots of them are respected and admired by the people in that society. but they're still pedophiles and it's a compulsion. >> did it raise your eyebrows when with you heard him answer when costas asked him if he was sexually attracted to young boys, i don't like to put myself in someone else's shoes, wow think the answer is, no, no, i'm not, being outraged about it. his answer kind of went meandering until he finally got around to saying no, he's not. >> it really is appalling. there's no other word for it. if he was innocent -- and i don't think he is, that's my personal opinion. and because we live in this politically correct society we have to say he ae's an alleged pedophile, which he is. but if he was innocent, the first thing he would say is, this is outrageous. i love and respect young boys
8:36 pm
and i work with them. first thing he should have said is no. but that's the classic pedophile, ander son. >> it does seem like -- i've done interviews with pedophiles and shows about them -- there are the ones who grab kids off the street, the wynnes we hear the most in the head lines. it's the ones who are groomers, who look for a family where maybe there's not a dad around or a mom in need or a child lonely or on his own a lot. explain what parents should be looking out for. i mean, we all know about the people who grab kids off the street. but people insinuate people into their children's lives over time, that seems when we often don't hear about. >> well, statistics have proven that the vast majority of children, at least 80% of them, are molested by a trusted authority figure or someone they know or a relative. and what's really appalling is that this guy was on the radar for 15 years, reports were made to the charity that he founded.
8:37 pm
there were reports made to penn state. that's also appalling, that he was allowed to continue. it's all so appalling. >> i just talked to the mother of victim number one and she was saying that when finally her son started telling school officials and shi was cae was called in a son began to indicate there was a problem with sandusky according to him, one of the -- the principal said to her, you know, you need to think about what you want to do because he's got a heart of kboeld, jerry sandusky. often it seems like -- do you think because of his reputation, his standing in the community, that people may salt lake looha other way or ignored instincts they he had? >> oh, without a doubt. they're great at isolating themselves with the children and this guy was so respected by so many people in the community. i think they were all in denial, anderson. i always say that -- that mother was right. boys don't tell until later.
8:38 pm
they're embarrassed. they feel thieve lost their self-esteem. they feel there's no one they can trust and tell. i really believe that there's a big, huge cover-up here because there were lots of incidents, lots of reports, and this guy was on the radar for 15 years. >> do reporting laws need to change? >> oh, absolutely. absolutely, anderson. first of all, in three states it's a felony if you don't report it. it's a misdemeanor in every state. it should have been reported. that coach who saw it in that locker room, anderson, 0 r here is a great big tall guy, 6'4", choking and sodomizing a boy. should have been stopped there, the cops should have been brought in that night and the university should never have let this guy retire and still bring guys into the locker room at 9:30 at night? just appalling. >> thank you, john. appreciate you coming on. >> thank you, anderson. one final note. throughout the evening we've been ugz the name victim one,
8:39 pm
how he's referred to in the grand jury report. obviously he's an alleged victim until and unless jerry sandusky is convicted of a crime. still ahead, a major break in the white house shooting. also, raw politics. new reporting on how much money newt gingrich was actually paid by freddie mac and what he was hired to do. today, investors want retirement planning on their terms. i want to work with people who are objective. how about a plan with my name on it? can we start with realistic goals, please? show me how to keep more retirement money in my pocket. now and down the road. those are my terms. then this is your place. td ameritrade, where millions of investors plan for retirement on their terms. [ male announcer ] trade commission-free for 60 days.
8:40 pm
plus get up to $600 when you open an account. what's in the mail? well, it just might surprise you. because this is how people and business connect. feeling safe and secure that important letters and information don't get lost in thin air. or disappear with a click. but are delivered. from person to person. and, sometimes, even face to face. have a great day. you too. for some of the best ways to connect and protect... it's all in the mail. learn more at at liberty mutual, we know how much you count on your car and how much the people in your life count on you. that's why we offer accident forgiveness, man: good job. where your price won't increase due to your first accident. we also offer a hassle-free lifetime repair guarantee, where the repairs made on your car are guaranteed for life
8:41 pm
or they're on us. these are just two of the valuable features you can expect from liberty mutual. plus, when you insure both your home and car with us, it could save you time and money. at liberty mutual, we help you move on with your life. so get the insurance responsible drivers like you deserve. looks really good. call us at... or visit your local liberty mutual office, where an agent can help you find the policy that's right for you. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?
8:42 pm
8:43 pm
in raw politics tonight, new questions about newt gingrich's ties to freddie mac, the presidential candidate was repeatedly asked about the work he did for the group for years. >> i was approached for stereo teeth ick advice. i was glad to offer strategic advice. we did it for a number of companies. >> the gingrich group is the consulting firm he founded after leaving congress. we confirmed that freddie mac paid the firm between $1.6 million and $1.8 million for two separate consulting stints. a lot more than gingrich acknowledged. during a debate last week, he said his firm was paid $300,000. this is the same freddie mac whose risky lending practices led to the financial crisis. the same freddie mac he's railed against ever since his consulting contract ended. >> i'm very saddened that john
8:44 pm
mccain hasn't had the nerve and the coherence to go nose to nose with obama and force obama to give back the money he's taken from fannie mae and freddie mac, forced him to -- who after all got $90 million in six years while totally mismanage fannie mae. >> that was gingrich in 2008, implying that freddie mac's money is tainted. what he didn't mention is his group was paid handsomely by freddie mac in the years leading up to the crisis. what was the firm being paid to do? gingrich first told reporters that freddie mac hired him as a histori historian. cnn has talked to four people who worked at freddie mac at the same time gingrich did. they said that isn't accurate. gingrich now says he was a strategic adviser. he denies he ever lobbied for freddie mac. we asked freddie mac. they told us gingrich was a consultant and didn't lobby for them. it's a fact gingrich was never a
8:45 pm
registered lobbyist. some say it's a matter of kmant icks. gingrich says he'll make the records public to the extent he can. had his campaign released a list called a fact sheet about gingrich'ses ties to freddie mac. they said that's all they'll be releasing. let's talk about it with ari fleisher and hilary rosen, both worked as lobbyists themselves. no, you haven't? >> no, never. >> how big a problem is this for newt gingrich? >> anderson, i think this is neither a tempest more a teapot. i think there's any number of people who have worked for these companies and given advice to them, which is what newt acknowledged he did. he said he didn't lobby for them. i think it's problematic the 2008 interview where he said president obama should return the money. obviously that's a little inconsistent with him keeping the money. but on the day that the debt topped $15 trillion, who newt gingrich worked for i don't think is a significant issue in the debate. there's a lot bigger issues this country is wrestling with. >> hilary, there's nothing wrong
8:46 pm
with lobbying if that's what he was doing. is this a big deal? >> of course it is because it piles on top of year after year of newt gingrich's sort of saying one thing and doing another. and this just proves it. you know, for two years he made it his number one priority to trash president obama and barney frank and other democrats for their handling of freddie mac and fannie mae. and here at the same time he was taking money from them. you know, this is the same guy basically who said he cheated on his wives out of a huge amount of patriotism. this guy is just completely not credible. but, you know, the big picture here is really that the republicans are so desperate to find an alternative to mitt romney that newt gingrich, despite all of this, keeps rising in the polls. herman cain hasn't actually it fallen off the radar screen yet. and this is all because of mitt romney really, that he's just not a good enough candidate for them and, you know, that's why ari is sitting here today saying, oh, maybe this is really
8:47 pm
a fine thing for newt gingrich to dog, lbe doing, lying about money. they just don't want mitt romney. >> i love to hear that because, if mitt romney has all of those problems, why is he beating barack obama in all of the polls. >> he's not. >> back on the substance of the question you asked me and had hilary, i think it's far worse that freddie mac and fannie mae have taken so many trillions of dollars that in effect was taxpayer money, taxpayer guaranteed money and squandered it on giving loans to people who had no means of paying back the loans. that in many ways is what triggered the 2008 financial crisis and has not been addressed by president obama in any shape, way or form. whatever newt took dwarfs the damage those institutions have done. now the right question is, what reforms are necessary to fix fannie mae and freddie mac. at least newt is on the right side with those issues. now he's seeking reforms. that's the bigger picture that is a more healthy thing for the
8:48 pm
country's economy. >> those institutions actually weren't fixed under ari's former boss george bush and when barack obama came to office he and the democratic congress actually did pass new laws that reined them in and considerably changed the way they do business. i don't know what ari is talking about. the real issue for newt gingrich is, can he credibly go on week after week and change his story every day? today it was i'm going to release the contracts, then tonight it's no, i'm not going to release the contracts. last week it was i was for a single payer. then it's we shouldn't have single payor. we've got to repeal obama care. 's not a credible candidate. as smart as he is, he's almost too clef by half. >> ari? >> on the issue of president bush, he repeatedly pressed for reform. it was blocked by barney frank and chris dodd.
8:49 pm
the there's the sharp newt and bombastic newt. we'll see which one comes out in the course of the election. that still is an open issue. >> hilary, ari, thank you. a man arrested in connection with the shooting at the white house friday. we'll tell you what led to had his arrest and where the bullitts were found at the white house. that's next. bullets were found at the white house. that's next. is this a chevy volt? [ stu ] yeah. it's electric. i don't think so. it's got a gas tank right here. electric tank, right over here. an electric tank? really, stu? is that what you pour the electricity in? it's actually both, guys. i can plug in and go 35 miles gas free, or i can fill up and go a whole lot farther. is that my burger? oh. i just got bun. i didn't even bite any burger.
8:50 pm
♪ sen♪ co-signed her credit card - "buy books, not beer!" ♪ ♪ut the second at she shut the door ♪ ♪ girl started blowing up their credit score ♪ ♪ she bought a pizza party for the whole dorm floor ♪ ♪ hundred pounds of makeup at the makeup store ♪ ♪ and a ticket down to spring break in mexico ♪ ♪ but her folks didn't know 'cause her folks didn't go ♪ ♪ to free-credit-score-dot-com hard times for daddy and mom. ♪ but my nose is still runny. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't treat that. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your runny nose. [ deep breath] awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is. that's the cold truth! [ male announcer ] spreading joy in a pair of santa swimtrunks? [ buzzer sounds ] scoring a kindle with special offers for only $79 at radioshack. so right.
8:51 pm
for only $79 at radioshack.
8:52 pm
what are these guys doing? [ horn honks ] could you please not honk while this guy's telling me about his chevy volt? is that that new... is that the electric car? yeah. but it takes gas too. ask him how much he spends on gas. how much does he spend on gas? how much do you spend on gas? how much do i spend on gas? if i charge regularly, i fill up like once a month. he only has to fill up about once a month. [ woman ] wow. that's amazing. we're following a number of other stories tonight. susan hen drix is here. >> a man has been arrested in pennsylvania in connection with a shooting incident at the white house. it happened friday night. oscar ra mere row hernandez is scheduled to appear in court tomorrow. two bullets were found in the white house. one was stopped by a bulletproof
8:53 pm
glass, one was found outside the white house. a weapon registered to the suspect was found in a car nearby. energy secretary steven chu is looking into a federal loan guarantee for the solar power company. text of his opening statement shows it will give the decision to give that company $535 million in federal loan guarantees was not influenced by any political favoritism. house republicans have claimed the solyndra benefitted from political ties between president obama and george kaiser, a major solyndra investor. the company went bankrupt this year. how about this? stocks took a dive in late trading today, the dow sank 191 points, s&p lost 21 points. and the story of 110-carat yellow diamond reportedly sold for more than $12 million in auction. it was found in south africa, the eighth highest price ever paid for a diamond. >> there you go. pretty. coming up, rebecca black is
8:54 pm
back. we just could not wait until friday to put her critics on the ridiculist. congratulations. congratulations. congratulations. today, the city of charlotte can use verizon technology to inspire businesses to conserve energy and monitor costs. making communities greener... congratulations. ... and buildings as valuable to the bottom line... whoa ! ... as the people inside them. congratulations. because when you add verizon to your company, you don't just add, you multiply. ♪ discover something new... verizon.
8:55 pm
tdd# 1-800-345-2550 you and your money deserve. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, that means taking a close look at you tdd# 1-800-345-2550 as well as your portfolio. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 we ask the right questions, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 then we actually listen to the answers tdd# 1-800-345-2550 before giving you practical ideas you can act on. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck online, on the phone, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 or come in and pull up a chair.
8:56 pm
8:57 pm
time now for theory dick list. tonight we're adding all of rebecca black's critics. those rare individuals who don't live their whole lives online and instead do things like read books or go outdoors, also for our executive producer who just today dared to ask, who is rebecca black. a little refresher. ♪ friday friday getting down on
8:58 pm
friday ♪ ♪ everybody's looking for forward to the weekend ♪ ♪ partying partying partying ♪ fun fun fun that was rebecca black's "friday" which burst into our consciousness eight months ago. it's not just about "friday." the lyrics help point out the days that come directly before and after friday. there's also a section about the decision making process in deciding whether to sit in the back or front seat of a car. it's a fun fun fun fun fun little song, and, yes, now it will be in my head for the rest of night. anyway, the internet nearly imploded after then-13-year-old rebecca black came out. there were a ton of parodies online and late-night talk shows made fun of it. a lot of people call it the worst song in the history of music, which is ridiculous because that honor according to multiple sources belongs to "we built this city on rock nl roll."
8:59 pm
guess what, critics? rebecca black is back. that's right, she has a brand new song called "person of interest." here is a taste of the new video. ♪ there's a crime scene on the dance floor ♪ ♪ ring the alarm ♪ police tape on the front door you are a person of interest ♪ >> crime scene on the dance floor. police tape on the front door. you are a person of interest. make no mistake, rebecca black has matured as an artist. i'm guessing all the people who blasted her for "friday" are eating their words right now. so you should. the reaction to "friday" was outrageous. people wrote horrible things online. she even got death threats. much to her credit, rebecca took it all in stride. she posted this video about what her summer was like. >> over the summer