tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN November 28, 2011 10:00pm-11:00pm EST
starts right now. >> thanks, piers. it's 10:00 here on the east coast. we begin with breaking news. new explosive sexual allegations against gop presidential hopeful herman cain. these do not involve allegations of inappropriate contact or harassment. they're allegations of a consensual affair. an atlanta businesswoman claims she had an affair with cain that lasted 13 years, an affair that only ended some eight months ago when he began running for president. here's what ginger white told waga, an atlanta television station about the alleged affair. >> it was pretty simple. it wasn't complicated. i was aware that he was married, and i was also aware that i was involved in a very inappropriate situation, relationship. >> ginger white on the affair she claims she had with herman cain. she also showed waga cell phone records showing 61 calls for tex or text messages she claimed
were from cain's private cell phone. >> we've never worked together, and i can't imagine anyone phoning or texting me for the last 2 1/2 years just because. >> cain upstaged his accuser's announcement when he appeared on the cnn "situation room" before she spoke out. cain said his accuser was just a friend whom he helped financially. >> tell us about the nature of your relationship with this woman. >> friend and trying to help a friend because not having a job, et cetera, and this sort of thing. that's all there is to the relationship. and here again, i don't know what's going to be claimed in the story. it was someone who was supposed to be a friend, but obviously, they didn't see it as a friendship. >> when you say friend, i'm asking -- these are awkward questions, but i'll ask you the questions you're going to be asked. was this an affair. >> no, it was not. >> there was no sex? >> no. >> none? >> no. >> after appearing on cnn his
campaign released a statement saying in part, and i quote, detractors are trying once again to derail the cain train with more accusations of past events that never happened. the cain campaign is not surprised that another female accuser has come forward due to the fact that earlier allegations were unable to force herman cain to drop his presidential bid to renew america. joining me now john king in charleston south carolina and gloria borger along with joe johns. you heard him tell wolf ginger white's claims aren't true. here's a part of a statement from attorney lynn wood. this appears to be an accusation of private alleged consensual conduct between adults, a subject matter which is not a proper subject of inquiry by the media or the public. no individual whether a private citizen, a candidate for office or public official should be questioned about his or her private sexual life. the public's right to know and the media's right to report has boundaries and most certainly those boundaries end outside of one's bedroom door. is he right about this, that
this -- i mean, it's certainly different than the other allegations. but should this matter to anybody? is this something that should be a story? >> well, that's up for the voters to decide, number one. but what you have in trying to deal with this issue now that it is front and center, now that this woman has come forward, the cain campaign has a problem with being consistent with how it deals with a crisis. you have the attorney giving what sounds like legal advice saying this is none of your business, we're not going to talk about it and our candidate won't talk about it at the same time mr. cain himself was on "the situation room" talking to wolf blitzer in a very public way about it. so, the first rule of politics, anderson, if you talk to any of our good political strategists at cnn, they would say, get on the same page, be consistent in how you handle this, and try to put it behind you. we did not see that on day one from the cain campaign. >> gloria, i guess herman contain should have said to wolf, this is not anything that's anybody's business, this is a private matter and i'm not going to answer it. >> right. >> do you think this matters to people? >> well, it depends on the person. did people agree that bill
clinton's private life was relevant to how he served as president of the united states? you have people that disagree on that. it may matter more to the values voters in the iowa caucuses which is coming up in about five weeks. but i think the problem with what happened today for herman cain, yes, he tried to get out in front of this story. but the real problem was, that he denied this relationship, and his attorney sort of said, look, this isn't relevant to the voters. it shouldn't be relevant to the media. and kind of sidestepped that. so it raised another question, which is, okay, why then does the lawyer come out and deny it, when herman cain denied it. and why weren't they on the same page here? >> joe, do you think this will have an impact? the allegation is a 13-year-long affair. there has got to be plenty of -- i mean, over the course of 13 years, there's got to be
evidence built up that will come out if this does have legs. >> sure. and she already has phone records. you alluded to that. but he's got sort of a veracity problem here. and that veracity problem is with ginger white, the woman alleging this consensual relationship. she says it happened. he says it didn't. and when you look at the polls, they're pretty clear. cain's biggest problem is with women, and women just don't believe this guy or at least they're starting to not believe this guy. and until he deals with that, until he deals with the issue of the social conservatives in places like iowa and south carolina, he's going to continue to be in the middle of the pack. so yeah, it looks like a problem for him. and like john said at the top, he's got to get on the same page. and he's got to be talking with his lawyer, with his campaign, with his staff and saying the same thing. that would help. >> john, joe mentioned the polls, the latest cnn poll released a couple days ago had herman cain in the top tier just
behind gingrich statistically tied with mitt romney. do you think this affects the race? >> anecdotally when you talk to people, anderson, even before this, set the specifics of this aside for a minute, they said that herman cain was a candidate heading down, in decline, in part because of the sexual harassment allegations that came up but when you talk to activists in some states some with his campaign, some affiliated with his campaign and some on the other side, of course, they're partisan, they say the debate performances, the inability to answer the libya question in the milwaukee interview. not that long ago. he's still in the top tier in most state by state polling but his position is lower than two weeks or a month ago. in terms of enthusiasm, a month ago, six weeks ago, people were saying, who is this guy? they were reaching out to find out more about him. you get the sense that that has stopped. i'm inouth carolina. south carolina votes third, 54 days from now. a state where herman cain was on the rise. talking to people here today, you get a sense that that
momentum at a minimum has halted and he has the challenge to try to re-energize. >> i think the republican voters that i talked, to they don't want a candidate they have to worry about. they want someone who can go up against barack obama and take him on. and they worry that if these kinds of stories keep surfacing, that herman cain's message, no matter what it is, whether it's 9-9-9 or whatever, saving the economy, just gets derailed totally, and they don't want that. so when you look at the question of electability or somebody who could be a plausible president, this isn't the kind of baggage that i think republicans want to go up against an incumbent president with. >> the question for herman cain, what do you do tomorrow about this? do you from here on answer that saying i'm moving forward or do you try to pivot somehow? >> well, yeah, number one, it's about proof, it's about evidence. but also you have to realize that some of the voters have at
least sent a signal that they're willing to give a candidate a break who's had -- you know, gone outside of his marriage or whatever. a good example of that is newt gingrich. i mean, he has a long history of issues, if you will. and he's doing very well. a month ago nobody would have imagine head was in the top tier. but that was after basically confessing that he'd had an adulterous relationship, converting to catholicism and taking a whole bunch of other steps to show he's changed. and, you know, those are the options for herman cain, i would say at this stage. >> joe johns, appreciate it, john king, gloria borger. let us know what you think. we're on twitte twitter @andersoncooper. let us know what you think. does this matter to voters? follow us on google plus. up next also on facebook. the sexual abuse allegations rocking syracuse university.
associate basketball coach bernie fine has been fired after espn reported in a phone conversation his wife laurie fine had with one of his accusers. we'll play you some of the call ahead. the question is, why didn't the school and the police know about it when it was reported nearly a decade ago. keeping them honest. egypt, anger in the streets and voters heading to the polls today. what can be done to fix this mess? we'll talk it over with thomas friedman of "the new york times." first, let's check in with isha sesay. >> is there a culture of a cover-up. the parents of a drum major killed in an apparent hazing incident say yes, and they're suing the university to get answers on how their son died. ♪ the lexus december to remember sales event is here, but only for a limited time. see your lexus dealer. so i used my citi thank you card to pick up some accessories.
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keeping them honest tonight with new questions about who knew what and when about the scandal that's now engulfed syracuse university. the allegations deal with coach bernie fine, associate men's basketball coach who's been accused of sexually abusing young boys. fine was fired last night after 35 years on the job. syracuse university cut ties with fine after espn and the post standard, a local newspaper, reported on a 2002 phone conversation one of his accusers had with his wife
laurie fine. espn says audio experts confirmed her voice is on the taped phone call. this is undercover video of mrs. fine also obtained by espn. as for the accuser in question, that's bobby davis, a former su ball boy who is now 39 years old. back in 1985, according to the "post standard" when davis was 13 he attended bernie and laurie fine's wedding. but davis told espn the abuse started a year earlier and continued for more than a decade. he's one of three men who accuse bernie fine of molestation. the others are davis' stepbrother mike lang on the left and a 23-year-old man named zachary tomaselli. tomaselli's father says he doesn't believe his own son's story. bernie fine hasn't been charged with any crimes and he denies the accusations. a syracuse spokesman said the penn state story caused them to reopen the investigation. earlier this month police told
davis back then they would not pursue the case because the statute of limitations had expired. the questions tonight, however, why didn't the police, the d.a. or syracuse university know of this taped phone conversation between fine's wife and one of his accusers back in 2005 since it was recorded three years earlier? could the tape have changed the way the case was handled? and did it take the penn state scandal for syracuse to take the allegations seriously? in a moment we'll talk with our gary tuchman who is in syracuse trying to get answers. we'll talk with mark schwarz wart, the espn reporter who broke this story. but first we want to play portions of the espn tape for you. we want to warn you, if you have young children in the room, you may want them to leave. some of the talk is graphic. keeping them honest, when it comes to the question who knew what and when, it does seem that mrs. fine did know and didn't tell police. or at least had some suspicions.
listen. >> i know everything that went on, you know. i know everything that went on with him. bernie has issues. maybe that he's not aware of, but he has issues. and you trusted somebody you shouldn't have trusted. >> yeah. >> bernie's also in denial. i think that he did the things he did, but somehow through his own mental ta help think has erased them out of his mind. >> there's more. she believes davis is not her husband's only victim. >> do you think i'm the only one that he's ever done that to? >> no. i think there might have been others, but it was geared to -- there was something about you. >> yeah, that's what i'm wondering is why was i the worst one? >> davis and fine also discuss a $5,000 loan davis received from coach fine in the late 1990s when davis was about 27 years old. the money was for paying off student loans.
the time of the phone call, davis had not repaid coach fine. here's that exchange. >> you wanted the money, what was it for? what did he want for it? >> he wanted to do me. he wanted me to touch him too. he tried to make me touch him a couple of times and he'd grab my hand and then i'd go away. and then he'd -- >> right, right. he just has a nasty attitude. because he didn't get his money nor did he get what he wanted. he didn't get -- >> it's not about the money. >> it's about the [ bleep ] you're better off staying away from him. you know what? go to a place where there's gay boys, find yourself a gay boy. you know, get your rocks off, have it be over with. >> yeah, but -- >> you know. he needs a -- that male companionship that i can't give him nor is he interested in me
and vice versa. >> laurie fine on the troubles with her marriage. adding yet another twist to the story. bobby davis said he and laurie fine had a sexual relationship that she initiated when he says he was 18 and a senior in high school. as for the sexual abuse allegations at one point she says on the tape, that she did confront her husband. here's that. >> i said to him, you know, bobby and i talked, and i know some things about you that if you keep pushing are going to be let out. >> yeah. >> he didn't even flinch. >> i know. that's what i'm saying. >> he said, beautiful, let him go ahead. sure, let him go right ahead. >> he doesn't think he can be touched. >> he thinks he's above the law. >> according to bernie fine's wife, he thinks he's above the law. his attorneys released this statement last night. mr. fine will not comment on newspaper stories beyond his initial statement. any comment from him would only invite and perpetuate ancient and suspect claims. mr. fine remains hopeful of a credible and expeditious review of the relevant issues by law
enforcement authorities. now to what gary tuchman uncovered in syracuse, gary, i understood you spoke briefly with gary fine's wife today. >> that's right. we went on a search for bernie fine and laurie fine. we did not find bernie, but we did find laurie. we thought that was very important because of her alleged role in this disturbing affair. why did she say things on the tape or would she deny she said them or say it was creative editing? we did hear from a nephew of hers earlier today, that she was going to come out with a statement, but it was misinterpreted it it was supposed to be on paper. we wanted to see her in person. so we walked up her driveway here in suburban syracuse, upper class neighborhood. we weren't sure if she was going to be home, but i knocked on the door of the house. and to my surprise, she came to the door and had a short conversation with me. i'm gary tuchman with cnn. i'm sorry to bother you. >> you're not bothering me. >> i was hoping i can ask you
your nephew was saying that you might have a statement. i have no comment. >> you don't have a statement? >> we have no statement. >> you're not going to make a statement. >> not today. >> is that tape misinterpreted though? >> i have no comment. >> how come you can't comment? >> i cannot comment. >> she did ultimately slam the door, but i was surprised at her disposition. she didn't look angry to see me, she had a slight smile when i came to the door. but we still don't know what her statement will be and if she will come out with a statement. we can tell you something very interesting, you've heard throughout the time that her husband bernie fine and jim boeheim have known each other for years. believe it or not, right across the street from where the fines live is another house and that's where jim boeheim lives. they live across the street from each other. they each have basketball hoops on their driveways.
jim came out of his house while we were on the street, we wanted to talk to him and see what he had to say about the situation. but he got in his car and drove off very quickly. >> what do local police have to say about the investigation, gary? >> we went to the syracuse city police office today hoping to get them on camera. they did not want to talk on camera. they say they had never conducted an investigation into the allegations by bobby davis. they say in 2002 that alleged victim came forward and asked what the statute of limitations was. the syracuse police told him five years, that was the extent of their investigation. they say they've never heard this audio tape until the other day. the same thing with syracuse university. it did conduct a four-month investigation in 2005. it's not clear why their investigation was in 2005, but they say they didn't hear the audio tape until our viewers heard the audiotape too. >> the alleged victim who supplied the tape to the newspaper or espn, he didn't give it to the university or to police? >> no, he did not give to it the university.
he didn't give it to the police. according to the university and police. he gave it to espn. he gave it to the newspaper, the syracuse post standard. you may be wondering, why didn't they do a story on it back in 2002? the fact is that courts have statute of limitations, journalists don't. we do stories when they're good, when they're important and when we have the facts. the obvious answer would be, both those news organizations, felt they didn't have the facts back then. but it's fair to ask them are there other reasons you didn't do the story back then. we went to the post standard, they said they'd have a statement in 24 hours but we really wanted it earlier since we're on the air at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. we wanted the statement tonight. we went to the newspaper, asked them to give us a statement on camera. they ended up not talking to us on camera. we took pictures of the newspaper building and a guard from the newspaper kicked us off of the property. a representative told us not to
take any pictures of the building. so maybe tomorrow night we'll have a statement from that newspaper. >> is mr. fine still married to his wife? >> that's a very valid and good question. and we just don't know the answer if the fines are still together. we can tell you that mr. fine did not appear to be in that house today. mrs. fine did. >> it does seem that when that tape was made, though, if in fact that tape is accurate and was made when it's reportedly been made, that they were married at that time? >> it appears they were married at that time. there's no records of them getting divorced, but we just don't know if they live together today. >> gary, appreciate it. let's get more insight on the scandal that rocked the university, and frankly still has a lot of questions outstanding. jim boeheim, the head coach, as gary mentioned, of the men's basketball team is expected to talk to reporters tomorrow. joining me is mark schwarz of espn who broke this story. laurie fine's nephew alleges that portions of that tape were tampered with. they say they may have a press conference tomorrow. you heard the tape. what's your reaction to the idea that it may have been tampered?
>> i did speak with bobby davis about exactly that earlier this afternoon. i said, that laurie fine may be about to allege the tape was tampered with. he was sort of stunned by the concept of that. he goes, what do you mean? i'm not sure because i haven't spoken with her. but i guess, bobby davis said, look, i'm not real good with technology. if there was equipment in front of me, i wouldn't know what to do with it. i only recorded one time a phone call with her and, you know, if laurie want to put her foot in her mouth, that's okay with him. >> why did bobby davis give you the tape? >> well, at the time, anderson, back in 2003, when he contacted "outside the lines" he made allegations against a very popular and established figure here in syracuse, bernie fine, associate basketball coach. and he told us the story at first on the phone.
i came out to meet with him out in utah where he lived at the time. he also mentioned that he had in his possession a tape that was recorded before we had ever met with him a year earlier in 2002. we don't know exactly how he recorded the tape. the tape was purportedly a conversation between laurie fine, bernie fine's wife, and bobby davis. he supplied us with this tape which we listened to, but at the time we have no way of verifying that it was indeed laurie fine. we spent some time with bobby davis in utah. we also came back to syracuse with him. we interviewed him extensively. he actually told us at the time that he was not the only one who was sexually abused by bernie fine. he told us that he can produce others. he knew that there were others or at least strongly suspected that there were others, and he led us to three or four individuals who we did contact, and all of those people at that moment in 2003 either would not
speak with us or would not corroborate bobby davis' story. >> that's what the university has also said. they said, look, we conducted an outside investigation for several months, and all the people who mr. davis said for us to talk to did not corroborate the story. >> well, i have a source that is familiar with that report, and i think what really happened, anderson, is not that bobby davis supplied people to the university that would corroborate his story. i think it's more accurate to say that bobby davis made a list of several names of people who might be familiar with the allegations that he was making against bernie fine. >> okay. now, you waited eight years to make this reporting public. the police didn't even know about the tape until very recently. was there -- i mean, obviously, they're very serious accusations. there is the possibility that other boys were being victimized.
was there a discussion at espn about releasing this tape at the time or about even telling the authorities about the tape at the time? >> well, journalists are not necessarily required or expected to hand over evidence that they did not obtain or create themselves to the police, anderson. i'm sure you know that. but i think at the very highest levels of our network, the best and brightest talked about this story, and it was worthy of some serious debate. we talked about it. we had bobby davis who made very serious allegations, who made them consistently over the course of many different interviews. his story never varied. if he didn't have an answer, he would not supply one. he would say he did not know. however, we did not have a second corroborating witness. we did have that audio tape which we did not produce. but until we have a second corroborating witness, and that
turned out to be his step-brother who we did speak to briefly in 2003, we would not go forward with the story. that was our decision as a company. it did not meet our standard of reporting. >> in 2003 did the step-brother have a different story or not want to talk or what did he say back then? >> i remember speaking with him briefly on the phone. bobby davis put us in touch with mike lang. i asked him what his experience has been with bernie fine. he said, well, bernie used to grab my leg. i said did he do anything more than that? and he said, not really, i don't want to talk about this any more. that was our experience with a lot of the young men that bobby davis introduced us to eight years ago. >> how much did the penn state scandal, that story breaking, affect or impact your decision to go forward with this story now or revisit this story? >> well, it didn't affect our decision to go forward with the story at all, but what it did do, when that scandal broke,
bobby davis texted his step-brother, mike lang and said, here it goes all again. this sounds just like what happened to me with bernie fine. mike lang remembered talking to me in 2003, he called his brother, who he says he's only spoken to three times in the last eight years, and he said, bobby, this penn state thing makes me sick. this bernie fine thing makes me sick. we've got to do something about this. i want to talk about what happened with me, bobby. what do i do? bobby said, what i would do is possibly call mark schwartz. he was fair to me the first time. i got a tearful call. i was sitting in a satellite truck covering the scandal at penn state. i got a call from a man who said, i'm mike lang. do you remember me? i said, i very much do, mike. bernie fine abused me, too. we've got to do something to stop this.
that is the first time that mike lang came forward and corroborated what his brother said happened to him eight years before. >> have you looked into this new accuser that's come forward? >> i have spoken with him. zachary tomaselli from lewiston, maine. i have spoken to him. and the police have spoken to him. he's told me his story in depth. >> mark schwartz, i appreciate your time. thank you. >> absolutely. up next, we'll have more on this syracuse sex abuse scandal. where do the developments in the story leave bernie fine? he hasn't been charged with any crime so far. mark geragos, sunny hostin, jeff toobin. violence in syria. there's a new report from the u.n., that blames that country's government with the most violations of human rights. so i like control in the rest of my life... especially my finances. that's why i have slate, with blueprint.
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more on the syracuse sex abuse investigation. the university has fired associate basketball coach bernie fine after espn and a local newspaper reported on this 2002 phone conversation with -- between one of his accusers and the wife of bernie fine, laurie fine. that's her. espn says audio experts confirm it is her voice on the tape during the phone call. she tells accuser bobby davis, a former ball boy for the team, that she knew everything that went on with her husband. she also said that bernie fine thinks he's above the law. we want to point out coach fine has denied the allegations against him. he's never been charged. the wife will hold some sort of press conference or statement tomorrow maybe saying the tape has been doctored in some way according to a nephew of hers. a lot of legal questions surrounding this case. here to talk about them,
criminal defense attorney, mark geragos, jeffrey toobin and sunny hostin, a little expert for our sister network, trutv. jeff, what do you make of this? it is bizarre all the way around. >> but the thing that's so peculiar about it is every person who heard about this, or every organization, espn, syracuse, seemed to act rationally with the information available to it. different pieces were available to different parties. and frankly, i can understand why no criminal case was brought. i can understand why espn didn't go with it in 2003. i can understand why espn didn't report it. >> i don't understand that. >> we disagree about that. but also, it's just a shame that this has gone on for so long when, at least based on this evidence, he could have been abusing more people. >> you believe that espn should have reported the tape to authorities? >> i think so. maybe a journalist doesn't have the legal reporting requirement, but what about doing the right thing? i mean, you have someone in a position of power around young
boy, who's been accused of being a pedophile. who has been accused of molesting. i think as a human being certainly you have to do something about that. if you see something, if you hear something, you have to say something. why not just report it to the police? why not say we've heard about this and there are tapes. and i believe those tapes corroborated in large part that something happened here. >> she never said that she had an actual eyewitness on anything necessarily happening. >> but she did imply that she had some sort of relationship with him. and she also implied she knew what was going on between bernie fine and these young boys. >> mark, what do you make of this from a defense attorney's standpoint? >> well, i tend to agree with jeff, and i've said for a number of years, we see a sea change in what happens in the media, in terms of reporting and a lack of sources. we've evolved to the point now where if this tape had been
presented now to some outlet without penn state being in the background, i don't think that there's any way that this thing would have just been shelved. i think it would have been reported immediately, number one. number two, and this is nonlegal comment. i think you're going to see a "saturday night live" skit that imitates this tape because i don't know why they had to hire audio experts. that is a rather unique voice on her part. and there's going to be a lot of chatter about this tape. >> mark, if she's making an allegation that this tape has been doctored which is what her nephew says she may say tomorrow in a statement, you probably looked into this kind of thing, can you tell in a tape has been edited? >> absolutely you can tell if a tape has been edited. it wouldn't be the first time that we've had a scandal d du jour, where we've had an edited tape. the same thing came out with the mel gibson tapes. i assume if somebody's going to say it, there's a very easy way to test it. you take the tape. audio experts can tell you immediately by playing it back
and doing the things that they do so well whether or not somebody spliced and diced it. the fact of her voice and what they -- remember, what's been done so far is espn says they've got somebody who says that's her voice, that doesn't tell you if somebody spliced or diced the tape. >> well, her nephew admitted it was her voice. >> i don't see any way that davis can be criminally prosecuted at this point -- >> you mean davis the accuser. >> i'm sorry. fine. because you can play with statute of limitations in various ways, but i don't see any way you can stretch it back to the 1980s. he can lose his job. i suppose there could be some civil lawsuit although the statute of limitations might bar that. >> the question is if this is, in fact, true, then this isn't generally the kind of behavior that just stops all of a sudden, so there may be more people out there and the statute of limitations for them might be -- >> right. >> right, but you can't talk about prosecutions, where you don't even have an allegation of a crime. >> so legally -- >> legally there's really nothing that can be done except that he could lose his job, which is very important since it's a job that's being around
kids and it's a good thing that he lost his job. there's no proof beyond a reasonable doubt standard for losing your job. >> sunny, another man came forward who says at age 13 he had an interaction with fine. >> that's right. >> there's another man who came forward and said, he had an interaction with fine when he was 13. >> that's true. >> but his own father is saying, he's completely -- this is not true. and he himself, this man who is now 23, this is him being interviewed by the local affiliate. he himself is facing accusations of inappropriate conduct with a child. >> some people are calling into question his account. but the bottom line is unfortunately some that are abused become abusers. >> thank you everyone for joining me on this discussion. it's megan. i'm getting new insurance. marjorie, you've had a policy with us for three years. it's been five years. five years. well, progressive gives megan discounts that you guys didn't.
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it has been chaotic couple of weeks in egypt. military violently cracking down on egyptians who are demanding the military regime running the country step aside, demanding the democracy they fought for last january be put in place. today was a step towards that democracy with regular egyptians voting for a new parliament. the first voting since the revolution brought down president hosni mubarak in february. they sealed boxes with candle wax. some voters said they were willing to wait as long as it took. they believe for the first time ever their votes would actually count. still, there are fears the military won't make good on its promise to turn power over to the new government. i spoke about it with thomas friedman of "the new york
times." "that used to be us. how america fell behind and how we can come back." it seems now there is calm on the streets of egypt. what's your assessment of the voting today and the importance of it? >> it's very exciting. it shows you how much pent-up demand there was in egypt for people to be able to vote in a legitimate election. by all reports they waited in long lines to be able to cast their ballot. this is the beginning of the process. it will take a long time. we've seen these scenes going back to iraq. we know it's just the beginning. but it's a good beginning, and i think we should hail it. >> there are a lot of folks on this side of the world who say -- who look to what's happening in egypt and see large groups of islamists, hear about the power now with the muslim brotherhood, they're working with the egyptian military and say, well, look, we're going to see, you know, a hardline islamic government in egypt? >> it's interesting, again, i go back to iraq because iraq, you know, is an interesting example of what happened.
you recall the first elections there, people really voted almost straight sectarian lines. cond election, you saw mixed parties. then suddenly you saw mixed coalitions of even islamists and secular people. and i think that's the process we're going to see in egypt and these other countries. one thing we've learned, anderson, from all these events is that you don't go from saddam hussein to thomas jefferson without going through khomeini. you don't go from one process -- from an autocratic regime to some kind of democracy without going through some religious phase. these regimes when they cracked at the top, the elevator went straight to the mosque. there was nothing in between because they never allowed anything in between. >> we've been covering syria a lot on this program and trying to keep focus on it as much as we can. obviously, arab league has now imposed sanctions over the weekend. a pretty remarkable move given where they were even a short time ago. one of the things you wrote this
weekend was that there there's a particular danger in syria, that in libya, in egypt, those revolutions imploded, but that if syria goes into revolution, it will explode. what's the difference? >> well, the reason is, you know, syria is so much more a patchwork of ethnic groups, first of all, you've got alawite, the ruling assad family, the big sunni majority, you've got christians there. you then have many parties who have a huge stake in syria. you have hamas has its external headquarters there, hezbollah with a huge stake in the stability of the regime. syria is the launching pad for iran into the arab world. turkey has a huge stake because of the kurdish population and a history of syria harboring anti-turkish kurds, if the lid blows off, all the different factions will reach outside to get external support inside. and these all have an interest and they'll reach inside. it will look -- i would
suggest -- a lot like lebanon only much bigger. just kind of a big regional brawl. and that would be very dangerous. >> is it -- we're now seeing and hearing reports about the opposition in syria starting to arm themselves. is that a mistake or is that just inevitable given that there's not some group like the egyptian military which -- they didn't side with the demonstrators, they at least kind of stayed on the fence? >> i think it's inevitable because you have a regime that's really offering no kind of legitimate transition to a more open politics. and is basically killing people right and left. now in the thousands. and so it was inevitable that the resistance movements would begin to arm themselves, but again this is the beginning of potentially a civil war which makes it so dangerous, which is
why you hope assad would leave, turn it over to a kind of transition authority that can hopefully create a peaceful transition, but the odds of that are -- one has to be realistic. i mean, you know, it's diminishing every day. that makes it very, very scary. syria is the centerpiece of the whole region. if that collapses that will be a an extremely dangerous situation. >> all that's happening, though, is this something that the u.s. really can impact? or is this something that the u.s. has to just basically stand by and watch it play out? these are things that are happening internally. which we don't have much impact on. >> we learned how to impact it. we learned that in iraq. it takes a trillion dollars, seven years, 4,000 casualties, 20,000 wounded, a civil war and a conflict that kind of tests the other, what you got, baby, what you got? think get they get exhausted and
then we help them midwife a social contract. we did it in iraq. we're not doing it anywhere else. all these arab revolutions -- and god bless them, you hope they're going to end positively, but you have to be very sober arbitor. they're all going to have to do it without a midwife, without any external, impartial arbiter. the only question now is the instability we're having. will that lead to an indonesia, south africa transition to democracy? let's hope so. or will it be a downward instability that leads to a pakistan, somalia kind of military or failed state? you hope it's not the latter, but stability has left the building. >> tom friedman, thanks. >> pleasure. still ahead on the program, fallout from the death of a drum major. officials have called robert champion's death hazing related. now the family wants to expose what they call the school's culture of cover-up. plus standing up for freedom of speech when it comes to twitter. the story of a high school senior called on the carpet for dissing the governor of her state in a tweet. we're sure j. lo meant no disrespect to new york city.
tonight why the controversy about a commercial she made ends up on the ridiculist. ps. thermacare works differently. it's the only wrap with patented heat cells that penetrate deep to relax, soothe, and unlock tight muscles for up to 16 hours of relief. that's 8 hours while you wear it, plus an additional 8 hours of relief after you take it off. can your patch, wrap, cream or rub say that? so if you've got pain... get up to 16 hours of pain relief with thermacare. [ knock on door ] cool. you found it. wow. nice place. yeah. [ chuckles ] the family thinks i'm out shipping these. smooth move. you used priority mail flat rate boxes. if it fits, it ships for a low, flat rate. paid for postage online and arranged a free pickup. and i'm gonna track them online, too. nice. between those boxes and this place, i'm totally staying sane this year. do i smell snickerdoodles? maybe. [ timer dings ] got to go. priority mail flat rate shipping at usps.com.
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school. they say they want answers about hazing and an alleged culture of cover-up at the school. kansas governor sam brownback apologized for what he called his staff overreaction to a tweet. during a field trip to the state capitol last week, emma sullivan wrote to her 65 followers on a school trip. she refused to apologize, she now has more than 4,000 twitter followers. stocks surged on reports of strong black friday sales. the dow added 291. the nasdaq and the s&p 500 both rose about 3%. tobey maguire has agreed to pay $80,000 to settle a lawsuit over hundreds of thousands of dollars he won in secret highstakes poker games. the winnings were paid out by a convicted ponzi scheme operator. at least ten others are facing similar lawsuits, seeking money for the conman's victims. that's the latest, now back to anderson.
time for the ridiculist. tonight we're adding j. lo's commercial controversy. in a commercial for fiat, jennifer lopez is seen driving through the streets of the bronx, the neighborhood she grew up in, and she implored listeners not to be fooled by the rocks she got, she's still jenny from the block. it features a dramatic voice-over and more pauses as she extols the virtues of her beloved bronx. >> this is my world. they may be just streets to you,
but to me, they're a playground. >> well, j. lo, turns out that jennifer lopez did not actually drive through the bronx for that commercial. i know. a reports are, a body double shot the bronx scenes while lopez shot her scenes on some block in los angeles. some people seem shocked. her reps issued a statement saying the commercial was, quote, indeed filmed in the bronx as well as outside locations. the statement went on to stay, as you may know in today's world people are increasingly mobile and their work takes them to many locations. we took the opportunity to film wherever ms. lopez was working at the time to accommodate her schedule. the revelation has some people's world turned upside down. i don't know what to believe. what about j. lo's razor commercial. >> put your best foot forward
followed by your best shaved leg. your smooth, sexy venus leg. >> now, i can't be sure was there even a blade in the razor that jennifer lopez ran over her smooth sexy venus leg. what about her kohl's ad? >> can i see your i.d., please? >> i know it's in here. it's lopez, jennifer, 23rd floor? >> still need to see your i.d. >> what are we supposed to think? does jennifer really get carded at kohl's or not? does she even work on the 23rd floor? america needs answers. she re-created her commercial at the amas so her affection for fiat is genuine, i'm sure her affection for the bronx is as well. but how are we to function in a world where we can't rely on the sanctity of television commercials. if you can't trust advertising to give it to you straight, who can you trust? we'll find out that the aflac duck doesn't talk. the bands in those free credit report commercials we'll find out that they're lip syncing and every kiss does not begin with k. i bet that where's the beef lady, i bet she knew where the