tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN November 29, 2011 8:00pm-9:00pm EST
>> you're welcome. >> just an amazing story. thanks very much for watching "outfront" tonight. "anderson cooper 360" starts right now. >> erin, thanks. good evening, everyone. we begin with new word from mike lang, one of three accusers making sex allegations against bernie fine, syracuse university's fired associate men's basketball coach. he spoke to our gary tuchman who joins us shortly. new revelations about what might have been done when first accuser called police with his allegations but wasn't. it's a procedure followed in other big cities but not in syracuse. the accuser's name is bobby davis, a former su ball boy who is now 39. he told espn the abuse started in 1994 when he was 12 and continued for more than a decade. he waited until 2002 to phone syracuse city police who told him they couldn't pursue charges
because the statute of limitations had expired. the city's police chief admits they could have done a better job. he said that in 2002 that the procedures which are in effect today were not in effect back then, the procedures that would mean an allegation would be logged into a computer database. back then they did next to nothing. not only did they not pursue charges. they never started an investigation or filed a report. no paperwork at all. the question -- is that unusual? the nypd tells suzanne candiotti that its own investigators are required to document any and all interview with alleged victims. one reason sex abuser rarely stop at one victim. if the allegations against bernie fine are true -- and right now that is a very big if -- he hasn't been charged with anything gettettyet, but i
accusations are true he allegedly molested zachary tomaselli. that's an allegation. the university on the other hand is defending its role in the case. >> let me tell you that we've been very straightforward and candid about this whole process. we've gone through our due diligence. new things came up and we felt that it was important both for bernie fine and for the university to move forward. >> that's university chancellor nancy cantor this afternoon. back in 2005, the school conducted an internal investigation and concluded there was no wrongdoing on the part of coach fine. but keeping them honest, syracuse university has neither released the report to the public nor discussed it in any detail. the bottom line, if any evidence or corroboration of the allegations had surfaced, we would have terminated the associate coach and reported it to the police immediately. keeping them honest, sex abuse
allegations even highly credible ones rarely come with corroboration. though in this case coach fine's wife admitted on tape in a phone conversation with bobby davis in 2002 that her husband, quote, had issues. and according to a transcript of the recording t "syracuse post standard" davis asked her, you think i'm the only one he's ever done that to? and she replied no. this is laurie fine talking to bobby davis in 2002. syracuse university did not have access to the tape when they conducted their internal investigation. but we have yet to hear from the university whether they spoke to mrs. fine in that investigation. we have no idea who they talked to at all. the report remains off limits to the public. according to mrs. fine in that same taped conversation, we hear her say that her husband thinks he's above the law, which remains to be seen. authorities are looking into zach tomaselli's allegations which involve crossing state lines which could be a federal crime. first gary tuchman up in
syracuse with more on the investigation and accuser number two. gary? >> anderson, accuser number two is bobby davis' step-brother mike lang. he's 45 years old, the older brother. he was a syracuse university ball boy starting when he was in junior high school. he kept quiet about these allegations because he felt helpless and was embarrassed. now he's speaking out to authorities, and he talked to me today. when you saw the penn state story break, how did it make you feel? >> well, i was sitting here in my house all alone. and my stomach just turned. and all i can think of is what me and my little brother went through, and it's happening all over again. >> initially what did you think of bernie fine? >> i thought he was a good guy. and he would bring me to every practice, he'd bring me to all the games, he brought me to the big east tournament. i thought he was a great guy. >> you would go to bernie fine's house.
>> every day. >> why would you go there? would he invite you, ask you to go there? >> it was like my home. i can go there any time i wanted to. >> so you'd be at his house. would his wife be home? >> sometimes. she'd be doing whatever she did and he'd be in there watching the games, making phone calls to recruits or -- it was like a home to me. it was like my home. >> he'd invite you to his house and you would hang out there. >> right. i'd go over there every day. >> and most of the time you would just watch tv or would you just study? >> watch tv, rake his lawn, do whatever i wanted to do. it was like my house, you know? >> so you considered him like a fatherly figure? >> yes, absolutely. >> but when did you realize that there was something wrong with what he was doing, what did he do to you? >> he touched -- he kept touching me. >> so where, though? where were you touching? >> in my leg and my penis. >> did you say something to him? >> yes. i said, bernie, please stop this because i'm not that kind and i won't tolerate it. if you don't want me to come
over here no more, i won't come over here. but if you keep doing it, i won't come over here. >> you were a kid and you knew this was wrong and here's this grown-up man doing this to you. when you said this to him, stop doing it, what did he say to you? >> he wouldn't say nothing. he'd move his hand, then wouldn't do it for that night. >> do you have any idea, mike, how many times bern fiie fine touched you inappropriately? >> at least 20, 30, 40. i mean, when do you stop counting? >> did you tell him to stop doing that on another occasion after he did it the first time? >> yes. it continued to happen. then i told him, please don't do that no more, but you couldn't tell him no. it was hard to say anything because you think you're with a god, you know. just hard to come out and say anything to anybody about it. >> so you regarded bernie fine as this exalted figure. >> well, a father figure, you
know? yeah, everybody did. >> but later you introduced your brother to be a ball boy and your brother started making similar allegations? >> when i got back from college, yeah, that's what i heard. >> when your brother told you this, when your brother bobby told you this, you must have thought to yourself -- did you tell him this had happened to you also? >> not really. not at first i don't believe i did. >> were you embarrassed? >> yes, i was. i blamed it on myself because i'm the one that brought him along after me. and now i got all this guilt feeling to live with now, you know? >> what do you hope happens? >> i just hope that this -- no other kids get abused. and that's the main reason why i came out and said what i had to say and what happened to me is because i don't want this to happen to anybody else. >> mike lang has two teenaged sons. his younger son was the same age he was when he started as a ball boy. he tells us that he just told
his son what he told us today just last week. the first time his son found out about this. >> syracuse had a big game tonight. you were in the dome for the beginning of the game. what was the atmosphere like there like? >> yeah, it was very interesting, anderson. because a few days ago syracuse had a game before bernie fine was fired. they left an honorary seat on the bench for him. today there was no honorary seat left for him. jim boeheim got huge applause but there was absolutely no mention whatsoever of bernie fine. >> let's bring in jeffrey toobin and sunny hostin out of "in session" on our sister network trutv. sunny specialized in prosecuting sex crimes. they did not create any reports after these were first reported? >> somewhat, but i have to say i'm less outraged perhaps than i should be about the conduct of the syracuse police.
based on their report, they did not have a victim report. they had a friend of a victim who said something -- that fine did this. but the victim did not come forward. so i mean, that's not an absent of corroboration. that's an absence of evidence. yes, they should have kept a record. but should they have prosecuted? should they have proceeded with that evidence? i don't think they did anything wrong. >> i'm going to disagree with jeff. the way i read it the victim came forward later and called the detective contact. once he told that story, the detective said the statute of limitations has run and there's nothing we can do unless you come forward with other witnesses and other victims. he did give them the names of other people. they felt that the accusations didn't warrant an investigation, didn't warrant documentation. and i think they had enough at that point to, at the very least, anderson, document what they were told. at the very least perhaps to
follow up at syracuse. at the very least to do something more than what they did. and i think now the chief of the syracuse polices a acknowledged that, right? he said now that i'm the chief of police, i'm changing the procedures. the procedures that were followed in this case, in my view, having prosecuted these kinds of cases were woefully inadequate and inappropriate. >> jeff, if it's true that there was later contact, do you agree that they should have -- that it makes sense to have a record on file? >> yeah. i wasn't clear. they had no witness where they could conceivably have prosecuted anything. i mean, there was nothing within the statute of limitations that syracuse could have done. certainly they did more to get the information to syracuse. that's the thing that is so troubling is that even if you don't prosecute, you can do something to protect children. and that's what the real failure here was, not the failure to
prosecute. >> the secret service is now the lead -- doing the lead investigation on this case. >> that's right. >> in the wake, i guess, of the third person who has come forward, zach tomaselli, because the possibility of crossing state lines. >> that's right. apparently his abuse allegedly occurred in pittsburgh. so the secret service taking the lead on the investigation tells me that the federal government is certainly looking at it. the u.s. attorney's office probably looking at it as well. that tells me this has become a federal investigation, as it should be, if these allegations are true, if children were trafficked across state lines for sexual purposes, if abuse happens in more than one state. >> right. >> that's a federal area. >> jeff, how did it change if it becomes a federal case? >> well, syracuse police department is a -- you know, it's a city, but it's a small city. you need really specialized expertise to take a computer and look at see if there's evidence of trafficking of kiddie porn of
e-mails that suggest that there was some sort of activity going on. that's the kind of thing that only a -- usually. i mean, not something like the new york city police department. but you really need the feds to have that kind of expertise. i think it only makes sense for them to be involved at this stage. >> i'd like to mention under the federal statute, the statute of limitations would not have run. and that's really what's important. because if you look at the federal guidelines, they have until the victim turns 25 or up to ten years after the alleged abuse, whichever is longer. when you look at it like that, now the federal government has a second chance of going after bernie fine if this is in fact true. >> is there a federal statute of limitation. >> there is a federal statute of limitations but it hasn't run yet. >> i think there's a chance they haven't run yet. >> that's right. >> that's the thing. we don't know exactly when these alleged actions took place. if they were in the '80s even
the federal statute has run. but if they were 2002, 2003 there's a chance for federal prosecution. >> that's right, that's right. >> one of the tragedies here is that a number of people seem to have known about these allegations for year, the university, the police, espn, the local newspaper, but no one could or did put it together because they seem to have different pieces of the puzzle? >> that's what's so maddening about this story. is if the cops had the espn tape or if -- this were individual pieces of very apparently incriminating evidence, but no one entity had enough information. >> i also don't understand why the first accuser, if he had this tape which he apparently made, why not hand that over to police? >> well, you know, i have to say the behavior of the accusers here is somewhat peculiar. it's very important to point out that being a victim of sexual
abuse, if that's what happened, is extremely traumatizing, extremely embarrassing, it is not like reporting your car was broken into. it's something very difficult to come forward -- >> he might say that he had already been told that the statute of limitations had expired and he felt the police weren't interested. that would be one argument. >> that would be the argument, but you would also hope that they'd be concerned about the possibility of future abuse in other victims and that they should have come forward. >> we'll continue on. sunny hostin, jeff tuboobin. follow us on twitte twitter @andersoncooper. i'll be tweeting tonight. coming up "raw politics" herman cain, is he saying anything about the affair allegations against him? allegations of a 13-year affair. we'll hear from the accuser's attorney tonight. later for first time a view from inside syria's most dang ru
city. through the eyes of waea wester reporter who was smuggled in. let's check in right now with isha and see what she's following. >> gary giordano the american held in aruba is a free man tonight. he was arrested in connection with the disappearance of robyn gardner but was never charged with a crime. shouldn't it be given in an amazing way? ♪ the lexus december to remember sales event is here, but only for a limited time. see your lexus dealer. but o i've tried it.ed time. but nothing's helped me beat my back pain. then i tried this. it's salonpas. this is the relief i've been looking for. salonpas has 2 powerful pain fighting ingredients that work for up to 12 hours. and my pharmacist told me it's the only otc pain patch approved for sale
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persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. get back to the things that matter most. good job girls. ask your rheumatologist if enbrel is right for you. "raw politics" tonight herman cain denies he's had an affair with an atlanta woman but admitted he's reassessing his campaign in light of the incident. he made no mention of the story which he says is taking a toll with his family and his fund-raising. whether it is hurting his poll number is still unclear. he's dropped out of first place after four accuser have come to light. the latest cnn/orc poll has him at 17% behind mitt romney and front-runner newt gingrich. in a moment we'll talk to the attorney for ginger white who said she had the long-running
affair with cain. but first tom foreman at how he got to this point. >> love ya! >> reporter: a tea party favorite, herman cain was a little known longshot for most voters when he entered the race. a former owner of godfather's pete za, a radio host and previously unsuccessful candidate, then the debates began and suddenly his wit and simple approach to complex issues like reworking the tax code had everyone talking. >> 9-9-9. >> reporter: in october, cain's poll numbers rocketed past perry, gingrich, paul, bachmann, nearly overtaking romney, but then came the stumbles on the occupy wall street movement. >> i don't have facts to back this up but i happen to believe the policy of the obama administration. >> reporter: on planned parenthood. >> planned parenthood was trying to put all these centers into
the black communities because they wanted to kill black babies before they were born. >> yes. >> you still stand by that? >> i still stand by that. >> reporter: on illegal immigration. >> we'll have a fence, 20 feet high, barbed wire on the top. it is going to be electrocuted, electrified. and there's going to be a sign on the other side that said, it will kill you. >> reporter: later he said he was joking, but the controversies added up. later as president he said he would negotiate with terrorists, then he backtracked. he said china was trying to develop nuclear weapons even though the chinese have had them for decades. his campaign manager appeared in an ad smoking infuriating health advocates. amid all that comes the accusations of sexual harassment, infidelities, cover-ups involving women cain allege lid kn allege l
allegedly knew or worked with. >> i was aware i was in an inappropriate relationship. >> did you know her for 13 years? >> yes, but did not have an affair. >> reporter: so far he's repeatedly denied doing anything wrong. >> i have never acted inappropriately with anyone, period. >> reporter: but his numbers are plunging and with them perhaps his chances of ever taking the white house. tom foreman, cnn, washington. again, herman cain denies the harassment allegations and the allegations he had a long-running affair with ginger white. shortly before air time i spoke with ms. white's attorney edward buckley. herman cain sent a message to his supporters today. here's what he had to say about your client. and i quote, as you probably heard yesterday a troubled atlanta businesswoman used national media outlets to promulgate a fabricated story about a 13-year affair with me. i'm writing to you today to
assure you that this woman's story is completely false. he also said that she made it clear she was abusing their friendship. what's your reaction to that or your client's reaction? >> i think that's a mouthful, and i'm very surprised at how aggressive that is. and very sorry that mr. cain has chosen to take that approach. >> your client stands by her story? >> she has consistently. >> herman cain's lawyer confirmed for us that they've not ruled out a defamation suit against your client. is that something you had considered before, is that something you take seriously? >> i think that would be a very bad idea for a variety of reasons, and i think that -- well, i just think that that would be a very bad idea. >> his lawyer also says that
there's no documentation out there that could prove or disprove this story, that it was all going to come down to he said, she said. your client has spoken about trips, about flights, about dinners, which is all, i guess, verifiable information. do you or do your client plan to release any more documentation to back up her claim? >> we have some additional phone records, which we'll release. as far as tickets and that sort of thing goes, those are the sorts of records that, you know, airlines might have. she did not retain any of those. and so she doesn't have that, no. >> but is there anything to -- any evidence that she had of souvenirs she collected or anything, photos that were taken over the course of 13 years? >> no, no photographs. and i think that that was, you
know, a matter of choice that there weren't photographs. so no, she doesn't have anything like that. >> we saw the phone records of your client already released, allegedly showing text messaging between herself and herman cain which he hasn't denied. does your client have any of those actual text messages? >> she does have some of them. >> would she consider releasing them? would there be anything in those text messages that would be further documentation? >> i think that's something that she's considered and neither ruled in nor ruled out at this point in time. >> how does she feel about how herman cain has responded to all this? and is there anything about his response that would lead her to want to now release whatever other information or messages she has? >> i don't think that -- i think
she's saddened by his response, but i don't think it was completely unexpected, and i think that she expected that she would be spoken of in a disparaging way, and she was disappointed in the way that he spoke about some of the other women who have -- who have made concerns known and so she expected the same. and i don't think that her point of view is that she should respond tit for tat. >> thank you. >> thank you, sir. still ahead, the syrian government still not letting journalists into the country. but a few have been able to sneak inside including the bbc's paul wood with volunteers running guns to the opposition. we'll talk to him about what he
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bashar al assad began and began being harsh with violence. the report is based on interviews with victims and witnesses, u.n. observers were not allowed into the country. the syrian government has also kept reporters out. but the bbc's paul wood just managed to get in. he was smuggled in with volunteers running guns to the opposition. i'll speak to paul in just a moment. but first a look at what he found. >> reporter: syria's border with lebanon. we're traveling with men taking in guns to a growing insurgency. they enter syria. the area's heavily mined and full of army patrols. a man was captured here just hours earlier. in to homs. the syrian army is all around. they'll probably shoot if they spot us.
the suburb. the people are hemmed in by the security forces. the fear is suffocating. >> remarkable dangerous assignment. paul wood from the bbc joins me from london. you were there when a small number, five or six, syrian army soldier, low level army soldiers actually did defect. what did they say about why they defected? >> i mean, it was a story we heard all the time from whenever we met free army people, they would say we were told by our officers we would be fighting terrorist groups, then we came to homs and found that we were firing on our own people. more or less every single day we saw these defections.
it is not an easy thing for them to do. typically you'd hear gunfire and that would be people literally having to fight their way out of their bases. in homs one evening we saw a firefight with tracer arcings over the buildings. this was five men who had made it out. the sixth had not. he was shot trying to do that. a very difficult thing for them to achieve. once they do that, they're out with their weapons and they become part of the armed opposition. >> what is it like being in homs? i've seen it through cell phone videos of people being killed by syrian security forces. it's been under siege. what's it like actually being there? >> it was difficult to get in, first of all. the city is ringed by checkpoints. and they have built a large berm with a ditch, which is supposed to stop the motor bikes that the opposition and the free army, as it calls itself, is using to run guns and medicine into homs. first, you have to sneak in on
foot. there's random and unexplained gunfire. we were taking a tour. and passed in front of a checkpoint and we heard automatic fire going over our heads. did a quick u-turn, took shelter behind a building, then a few mins later a teen aged boy was rushed past in a car with very ugly looking wounds to his knee. there's a feeling of constant siege, constant pressure, constant tension. a feeling that the army will come in at any moment and kick down the door. and one of the very sad and upsetting thing that happened while we were there was that a 6-year-old boy was shot dead by a sniper while he was playing on his doorstep. of course, that is a very narrow view of the sunni protesters in one part of homs. homs is an ethnically divided city. while we were coming out, state television was showing a christian mother who said that her 9-year-old had been shot dead in similar circumstances. people who remember the balkan
wars, it felt like sarajevo, atmosphericcally, the kind of images we were getting. that sectarian question hanging there rather malignantly and pointing the way to what happened in the future in syria. >> a very troubling comparison. paul wood, thank you for being on. extraordinary work. thank you. we'll check in with other stories. isha is back with the 360 bulletin. >> britain is serious consequences after iranian students stormed it embassy. they blasted iran for failing to protect the embassy as international law requires. days after iran's parliament voted to expel him. in egypt's tahrir square at least a dozen gunshots were reported. the violence came on day two of historic parliamentary elections that will continue over the next several months.
vice president joe biden is in iraq. his surprise visit comes as american troops get ready to depart by the end of the year. the casey anthony trial was the number one searched news story of 2011. that's according to microsoft's search engine bing. they released a top ten list. osama bin laden's death was number two followed by hurricane irene. do you know the number one most searched celebrity? >> no. who? >> pretend you care. >> let me guess. does the name begin with k? >> no. >> okay. who? >> if i say the words baby, baby, baby, will that give you a clue? >> oh, justin bieber? >> there you go. >> interesting. >> cultural stuff -- no, not the kardashians. >> you never know when fame will find you. for nicole harris of el paso, texas, who was at the gym on a treadmill, this is going viral so we call her dancing queen.
she started treadmill dancing when she hurt her knee and heard that sideways walking on the treadmill can help you. >> she's got moves. >> i would find that distracting if she was doing that next to me. >> i find running on the treadmill fairly distressing anyway. so maybe that would be -- >> yeah, i would definitely be distracted. i would then be looking at her and i'd fall off the treadmill which is always painful. >> then you'd end up on "the ridiculist". >> wouldn't be the first time. dr. conrad murray's sentence in the death of michael jackson. the judge threw the book at him. but it doesn't mean he'll be in jail long. mark geragos and marcia clark. robyn gardner missing in aprub ba. the only suspect in the case no longer in custody. with thermacare heatwraps.
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"crime & punishment" tonight. a judge sentenced conrad murray to four year in jail for the death of michael jackson. the maximum punishment. jackson hired murray to be his personal physician. he trusted murray with his life. instead murray violated the trust, became involved in a, quote, cycle of horrible medicine, that's what los angeles county superior court judge michael pastor told the courtroom today.
he spent 30 minutes explaining why he was issuing the harshest sentence possible. here's some of what he had to say. >> the court has determined that the appropriate term is the high term of four years imprisonment. i do so because, once again, i find that dr. murray abandoned his patient. dr. murray repeatedly lied, engaged in deceitful misconduct. he has absolutely no sense of remorse. absolutely no sense of fault. and is and remains dangerous. >> here's the thing, though. murray will likely serve less than half of his sentence. let's talk about that with mark geragos and marcia clark, who is also the author of "guilt by association." so marcia, your reaction to today's sentencing?
>> i have to say, it's no surprise. we were all predicting that he would max out, conrad murray, at the top term of four years. and also because of the realignment sentencing laws now, he's not going to go to state prison because he's not considered a violent felon under the laws that have now been enacted. so he's remanded to the custody of the sheriff which means l.a. county jail and perhaps house arrest. >> is that just? >> that's it. that's all that we can really do. and of course, don't forget, involuntary manslaughter only carries four years. and it always has been allowed to be given what we call halftime, good time work time credit of 50%. in that sense the sentence is exactly what the charge is, you can't ask for more than that. but the actual place he does the time, that's because california's prisons are bursting at the seams. >> you can hear the anger in the judge's voice.
he was talking about the recording he made when he was barely conscious. do you think this was a fair ruling? do you think he should have received the maximum sentence? >> well, there's a bunch of questions in there. number one, did i expect it to be four years? absolutely. did i think it was a fair ruling? given the fact -- i mean, there is this backdrop that he could have been charged with what we've discussed before, anderson, implied malice, second degree murder, where he would have faced a life sentence, so he got that break that way. would somebody else have received this sentence or been prosecuted to this extent? i don't think so. i think but for michael jackson, he wouldn't have had the resources that were expended. was this judge frustrated? i think that he actually was and i think you can hear it. his voice betrayed the fact that he was disgusted by what happened here. and so i'm with marcia, i don't think that there was anybody who was around the court system who thought for a second that he was
going to get a minute less than four years. >> murray's attorney said that maybe his appearance on the "today" show in a documentary were not a very good idea. do you think that's an understatement? do you think those appearances hurt him? >> talk about an understatement, anderson, really, you think? yeah, horrible idea. why would you do something like this? it really just kind of underlines his self-centeredness, his remorselessness, his sense of entitlement, his sense that he did nothing wrong. it underlines every bad thing that you can imagine of what a judge looks at in sentencing. and one of the primary factors that a judge does look at is an acceptance of liability and responsibility and remorse. and what he did in doing the documentary and making these appearances and these denials of culpability, he shows no remorse at all. any judge will be frustrated
with that. >> a sense of remorse can have an impact on sentencing? >> one of the things you hear is there is no remorse or there is remorse. if somebody pleads early on, if somebody accepts responsibility early on, if somebody says yes, i did it what i call confess and avoid. that's the whole nature of the term confess and avoid, you embrace it, you say i did it. that's something that's a huge factor under the rules of court and it goes a long way with judges and to some degree it mollifies people who have been wronged, gives them -- i know the favorite word now in the victim's right movement is closure. nobody ever gets closure if there's no remorse. >> mark geragos, marcia clark, i appreciate your perspectives tonight. a man being held in connection with the disappearance of robyn gardner, he's a free man tonight. we'll tell you why. the latest on the lotto drama in connecticut. are these guys the true winners? we're america's natural gas and here's what we did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs
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giordano. joran van der sloot, the man long sochd murdering natalee holloway in aruba has filed a lawsuit against authorities with the chilean and peruvian government and the father of the woman he is claimed to have murdered. american airlines parent company has filed for bankruptcy reorganization. the airline posted a profit in only one quarter since 2007 and has lost nearly $5 billion over the same time period. anderson, there's lotto drama in connecticut. the day after three asset managers claimed the largest powerball jackpot in history, they're denying that there's a fourth winner who wanted to remain anonymous. the men netted a payout of 1.3 million. only one of the guy spoke at the
press conference on monday and all he had to say was, it feels good. >> i wonder do they have to do a press conference, i wonder, by the lotto rules? >> i don't know that they have to do one. i mean, surely there have been winners in the past that we've never seen on camera. i don't think they have to. >> seems like all the people could have theoretically won, asset managers, it's not like -- >> i hear you. but you know, at least you're more interested in what i just said because when i clearly brought the last news, you weren't interested until we brought up the shot. what was that about? >> what do you mean? >> i'm just saying this relationship, you need to work a little bit. you need to give a little. >> i was interested in that. >> all right. well, be quiet and listen to the commentary on the short again. >> see that. >> she's breaking it down. >> she's got style. >> did you see her drop it?
she has a little salsa move she does every once in a while. >> 360, oh, there she is. >> i'm hearing a little 360 there. you know, it does annoy me at the gym when people like dance and stuff at the gym. >> why? >> i don't know. it's just annoying. doesn't it annoy you at all? i don't know. it just bothers me. >> don't be crotchety. >> i'm too crotchety. that's my problem. i should just open up my heart. >> yes, feel the love. >> all right. thanks very much. let's check in with piers morgan for what's coming up on "piers morgan tonight." >> i can assure you no british people dance in gyms. >> british people don't go to gyms. >> not really, no. anyway, tonight -- moving
swiftly on -- i'll sit down with an insider from the herman cain campaign. one person claiming an affair, is the cain train permanently off the rails? we'll look into that. and i'll talk to conrad murray's defense attorney. will his client actually do the time? plus from "america's most wanted" john walsh, his takes on scandals in college sports and the biggest crime of the day. back to you. >> piers, look forward to it. coming up a guy in vermont makes t-shirts in his garng and gets threatened by a major fast food corporation. congratulations. congratulations. congratulations. today, the city of charlotte can use verizon technology to inspire businesses to conserve energy and monitor costs. making communities greener... congratulations. ... and buildings as valuable to the bottom line... whoa !
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tonight we're adding a david and goliath story we call chick-fil-a versus the t-shirt zbi. chick-fil-a with more than 1500 locations and sales totalinging more than $3.5 billion. in this corner, bo muller moore, a guy in vermont who may bes t-shirts in his garage. some of his t-shirts read eat more kale. and chick-fil-a does not like that, no, sir, not one bit. the company is threatening to shut the guy down because it says that eat more kale is too close to its eat more chicken slogan and will confuse commerce and dilute its brand. >> this is ridiculous. >> couldn't have said it better myself, t-shirt guide. he sells his t-shirts on his webside and also emblazoned with words like cheese, compost and
free range. he says it is all about eating healthy and supporting local farmers. he says that chick-fil-a's argument doesn't make a lot of sense. >> t-shirts and chicken sandwiches. apples to zebras. >> you've not sold a chicken sandwich in your life. >> no, and will not. >> this is a chick-fil-a chicken sandwich and this is kale. now, i don't know, you can make the call. i don't even know what kale, frankly. bo said he's one man with one squeegee and that's how he likes it. chick-fil-a states its corporate purpose to glorify god by being a faithful steward of all that is entrusted to us. the company hassan been entrusted with the care of a whole herd of cows with dubious spelling skills. ♪ you notice at the end there
chick-fil-a's other slogan, we didn't invent chicken, just the chicken sandwich. they invented the chicken sandwich? i think maybe the earl of sandwich might have had a little something to say about that. unfortunately, he's been deceased since the late 1700s. maybe chick-fil-a can go after him as well and start using a new slogan, i sue dead people. thank to al gore's invention, the internet, there's a petition to support the t-shirt guy. he said this isn't the first time that chick-fil-a has come after him. in 2006 he got a cease and desist letter from the company demanding that he stop using the eat more kale logo and send the company all of his t-shirts. back then he got his own lawyer and the company backed off and he said he's willing to do it again. >> it is not going to be an easy fight and it will cost me a lot. hopefully it won't cost me my busine. >> keep fighting the good night, t-shirt guy, because when it comes to epic battles involving esot