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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  February 8, 2012 3:00am-4:00am EST

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good evening. it's been a huge night for rick santorum picking up victories throughout the midwest. right now, there's so much about the delegates, it is about momentum. and trul santorum is the man with the mo. at least for now. listen to his speech earlier tonight. >> tonight was a victory for the voices of our party. conservatives and tea party people who are out there every single day in the vineyards, building the conservative movement in this country, building the base of the republican party, and building the voice for freedom in this land. thank you. as a first generation american,
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whose parents and grandparents love freedom and came here because they didn't want the government telling them what to believe and how to believe it, that we had a first amendment that actually stood for freedom of conscience. we have a president of the united states who would roll over that and impose his secular values. on the people of this country. ladies and gentlemen, freedom is at stake in this election. we need to be the voice for freedom. in that founding document, the declaration of independence, at the end of that document, those founders signed their name. but the last clause of that document says we pledge our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor. ladies and gentlemen, every
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generation of americans doesn't create freedom but they have in many respects, a hard he job. they have to maintain freedom. you're charged tonight, you're charged tonight here in missouri because we're not done yet with you here in missouri. you have a caucus coming up next month. go out and pledge, pledge, no, not your lives. maybe your fortune. rick santorum.com is the website. but your honor. the honor that you stand on on the backs and the shoulders of your ancestors. the people here in st. louis, the people here in missouri, the people across this country who sacrificed for this country, for the freedoms we have.
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america's honor. your honor is at stake. go out and preserve the greatest country in the history of the world. thank you all and god bless you. >> a great showing for rick santorum tonight. is it a game changer? joining me now, the senior adviser for the santorum campaign. john, congratulations. what a night. >> thank you. these are the type of nights that you wish they could just extend for a while and you could enjoy it. unfortunately in presidential politics, another week comes, two weeks comes, there will be more states. right now you try to savor it and everybody joy it. it has been a spectacular night. >> what do you think is the key thing we can take away from this? in real terms, away from all the spin, what is the significance of tonight, do you think? >> i think you have to look at some of the states. i think missouri is particularly interesting for two reasons. one is, gingrich did not make it on the ballot. so it gave rick santorum a one-on-one shot against mitt romney. a pure conservative against a
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pure moderate. what would happen? rick santorum ended up winning by about 25 to 30 points over mitt romney. that's pretty spectacular. the other thing about missouri was, there weren't negative ads by anybody. what it meant is the campaign came down to not who could run the most tv advertising but the candidates themselves, their message and their record. and rick santorum succeeded very well when that became the critical factor in determining votes. so i think people will start at this and saying, rick santorum is clearly the one who should be up against mitt romney. second of all, people are starting to get a very big comfort level that rick santorum very well is the best and strongest candidate to take on barack obama. >> he certainly has the clearest point of difference, i would say. both with mitt romney and with barack obama. despite all newt gingrich's attempts to put himself in that position. you look at the way he spoke tonight, for example, your man. and he sounds very clearly as a traditional conservative who has principles that maybe others
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don't agree with but at least he sticks to them. >> well, the line that we've been using quite a bit in our advertising and on the stump, if you will, is that rick santorum is not just a conservative by rhetoric. he doesn't just talk a good game. he actually lives it. you look at the contrast with mitt romney. romney, you know, romneycare which included big government mandates was the core of obamacare. romney supported the big bailouts just like obama did in radical legislation. on the koresh use, the tea party supporters believe in, mitt romney is actually, his were where obama have been barack obama is. people are starting to look at the records and understand, do you want somebody who is a true and consistent and full spectrum conservative or somebody who just seem to talk about it but their action doesn't match their rhetoric. >> what is the strategy going forward for rick santorum? presumably the money will start to come in and even a larger number than it has been on the back of this big night for him.
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what is the way that you can tactically now gear up for say, super tuesday and indeed, beyond that. >> what is interesting, we have a good narrative to tell. there are only two candidates so far that have multiple wins. and we have three and mitt romney has three. maybe more. we'll see what happens. we have a good story to tell that we are equivalent as far as state victories. second of all, what is very important to us is that conservatives and tea party supporters decide that they should unite around rick santorum because he is not only the biggest one that can stop mitt romney but he is the one who can defeat barack obama. and we've got to make that story stick. we have to believe it. all they have to do is look at the results in three states tonight and people understand, rick santorum is the strongest hard core full spectrum conservative. >> well, whatever people say, it's been a great night for santorum trul and a great night for you.
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congratulations and i'm sure we'll talk again very soon. >> i still think it all started when you had him and his wife karen and all their children on on your show. it seems like the poll number pick up immediately there after. >> well, the old morgan magic. maybe we can have him on tomorrow night if you're feeling so grateful. >> we'll try hard. we would like to have him on with you. >> congratulate the governor for me. >> thank you for having me. tim pawlenty gave up his own run in august. now joining me, thanks for joining me. not a good night for your guy. what's going on here? >> piers, i don't think it went wrong. these states, missouri and minnesota, they were abbreviated campaigns. the full blown affects of the campaigns you saw weren't visited upon these states. they were smaller turnout states. they were nonbinding states. so i don't think they change fundamentally the trajectory of
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the election. in cases like minnesota, the small turnout traditionally means that the caucus attendees gravitate toward the candidate that seem be the the most conservative. that presented a more challenging environment for mitt romney as they turned to apparently rick santorum. as this unfolds and people get to see the full records, mitt romney will be the nominee. >> i would expect you to say that. the reality check is everyone expected mitt romney to fly through february into a sort of orgasmic super tuesday. and suddenly it hit the buffers. this will be a big shot. whichever way you dress up the significance of the stalts tonight, the reality is, if rick santorum has the night everybody believes he is now having, this has got to be very good for him and not very good for mitt
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romney. >> i think congratulations to rick santorum are in order. any time somebody wins a state, they should be congratulated. but let's face it, the people who have followed this closely knew that he was going to do well in minnesota and missouri. i for one have been signaling that for a number of days, more than a number of days. and most people sort of expected this. so with all due respect, it is not really a shock or an unexpected develop many. these are the kinds of states, the kinds of procedures that favor a certain candidate and wasn't mitt romney's night, oxley, in those states. i think you will see him dramatically reemerge with tremendous victories in the states coming up. >> what it might do is encourage people to put more money behind rick santorum. clearly newt gingrich has made it clear, he is going after super tuesday and then texas as his big goals ahead. this battle will get nastier and i would say more prolonged than perhaps you may have anticipated a few weeks ago.
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>> what it will also do, as a particular candidate surges, then that candidate through the mideast and his opponents gets better aquand with the voters. that means their record just just get short treatment. it gets the full treatment. as that has happen, the country, when they get fully introduced, the country has said, the republican party has said, i don't think so. they've come back to mitt romney. i think you'll see that happen again. >> how much are you concern about the potential back lash to all the negative campaigning? both from mitt romney's side and newt gingrich's. rick santorum hasn't gotten involved in that, certainly nowhere near the extent of the other two. people are beginning to say, look, he might be thriving with the co-conspirator vote. by the fact he is not beating up on his opponents. >> there may be some of that. now that he's entered the top tier of candidates, i'm sure
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he'll get more scrutiny himself from the press and the other candidates. for example, piers, if you look at his record, he is not the perfect conservative or pure conservative that he claim to be. he's been involved in all sorts of ear marging and pork barrel spending tactics, as you may know. he's voted many times tone crease the debt ceiling. more of those will come out as this race unfolds. and then also, keep in mine that the notion that he hasn't been involved in negatives really isn't accurate. he was in minnesota the other day and gave a scathing set of remarks about mitt romney. so he doesn't have clean hands when it comes to this. but these debates and campaigns going forward will be robust, vigorous, as well they should be. when these folk are running for president of the united states. they're not running for golf club president. this is much more serious and much more intense set of responsibilities. >> thank you very much indeed for your time. >> my pleasure, piers. thank you. a tough night for newt
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i just talked to governor
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rick perry today. our goal is through assumer tuesday, we then go to alabama and mississippi and then we go to texas and our hope is by the time we get to texas on april 6th, we'll be pretty close to a tie with governor romney. >> that was newt gingrich earlier from the battleground state of ohio. he is not much of a factor tonight. jacky, welcome again. >> thank you, piers, i appreciate you having me on. >> it looks like a fascinating night in the race. a big night for rick santorum. a very bad night for mitt romney. your father kind of detaching himself from this process. how will he be feeling about this big swing toward santorum on a rough night for his biggest rival, mitt romney? >> i think you're exactly right. the big news of tonight is that this really shatters romney's team, their inevitability saying
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it will happen, clearly it is not inevitable. this is not a good night for governor romney. this is a good night for santorum. and as you know, all three of these states. none of them are binding. no delegates are awarded tonight that are binding. >> that's true. politics is about momentum. what this does tell you is that mitt romney's train has hit the buffers pretty hard. but it's not great for your father either. he has trailed disappointingly in all three of these states so he is taking a big gamble in allowing santorum, i would argue, to build up a real head of speed, isn't he? >> you're right in a couple ways. there is always momentum in any race. dad clearly had momentum in south carolina. then we went to florida and got pummeled by a lot of neglect ads. and then interestingly about mitt romney, he won when we were in las vegas but he won with fewer votes. even though romney won there, he
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won with 27% fewer votes than four years ago. so his momentum is already slowing. there is a recent "washington post" poll out today that reflected the more americans got to know governor romney, the less they liked him. so there is a lot to be said about this contest. they have to have 1144 delegates to secure the nomination and there is a long way to go for all the candidates. this proves to your point that this race is wide open. >> it certainly is. it has been a fast it in aing race from start to finish. i suppose what some people are gambling tonight, that gingrich and romney attack dogs have buried each other so badly with so many negativity that santorum playing this kind of nice guy, not getting involved, may be appealing to people as an alternate way. >> i think you have a point in that both camps have been very negative to some degree. dad has suffered the brunn of that. he outspent five or six to one.
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he has really borne the brunt of the negative ads. but a couple things, one is santorum, some of the other front-runners might turn to look at santorum now. dad and santorum have a very good relationship. as you know, santorum served under my dad when my dad was speaker and he was, he often talked about how he helped reform welfare and that was clearly unmy dad's role as speaker. that was when welfare was reform as well as the budget balance for four years. it really says this race is wide open. that we don't know what will happen. what we do know is my father is the only candidate, including president barack obama, that has balanced the budget for four years in a row nationally and reform welfare, cut spending and cut taxes. and he is the leader that we need today. >> well, jackie, as always, a great place to talk to you and i'm sure we'll talk again very soon. >> thank you for having me on. >> has the race changed tonight
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or is this another swing of the pendulum? joining me now, ben smith. ben, welcome. from a media point of view, great stuff. it keeps the story going. it is exciting. the lead keeps changing. is it as good for the republican party? >> it much better for the media than the republican party. yes, the media has been cheering frantically all week for rick santorum to have a rise. i think the republican establishment would like this whole thing to go away. you've seen these candidates kind of get smaller and smaller and smaller as the primary proceeds. as obama gets larger. by comparison. >> that seems to be the big issue. until the republican party really finds their man, and they seem to be dithering and changing their mind almost state by state. until they make a decision and go with him enthusiastically, very hard for the republican party in the wider sense to really feel excited about the real election with obama.
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they've got to find the right candidate. >> they basically have chosen mitt romney. it is very hard to see how he doesn't get nomination. they seem to torture and humiliate him to make it hard and not easy. the less people, the fewer people are interested, the fewer people come and vote. and the few people who do show up is something like tuesday night. very semi meaningless primaries. the people who show up are the core conservative activists who don't like romney. >> everyone keeps talk b this as fits a done deal with romney. if colorado is even close, frankly, after rick santorum has won the other two states tonight, that's not a great endorsement of mitt romney at all. why shouldn't someone like rick santorum make your real run for it now? >> because i think people think that it is close to over. we've sort of seen this before.
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santorum rising and then voters at large, at him a little more closely thinking he is not conservative enough. and also the romney death star. the super pac which is just hovering in the wings here. just blasting away at him as he starts to rest. >> that romney death star which has been effective in taking on newt gingrich and goaded almost into doing the sail. rick santorum is playing a clever game. he's risen above this negative stuff and insists he will keep doing so. just plows his quite lonely furrow. by staying out of that bitter fray, it is clearly beginning to work. >> he has a nice help a warrior feel to his campaign right now. i mean, i think you can see he is feeling a level of personal vindication about this after having been written off and laughed at all through 2011. i mean, the problem for him is that he has not mounted anything like a presidential campaign. he is not even in the ballot. he is struggling to get on the
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ballot and indiana. a very big state. hard to say how you can compete when you are not on the ballot. >> what would it take for you, a cynical hard bitten political hack to start taking rick santorum genuinely seriously. what has he got to do? >> this is all about mitt romney. these votes for santorum are about romney, rejecting romney. it seems the thing, the way that this thing could change is after it feels like a done deal, there is something like a jeremiah wright moment was, it seemed like a done deal. then something so crazy happened that people started, that you could imagine the super delegates just fleeing. i think something beyond the signs of problems for romney. something really dramatic and negative would need to happen. >> well, events can happen as you and i know very well. thank you. >> thank you for having me. >> when we come back, the
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question of the night. rick santorum, mitt romney, newt gingrich, maybe ron paul. who knows who will face barack obama? dad, why are you getting that? is there a prize in there? oh, there's a prize, all right. [ male announcer ] inside every box of cheerios are those great-tasting little o's made from carefully selected oats that can help lower cholesterol. is it a superhero? kinda. ♪
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>> weir going to stand united behind our nominee to defeat barack obama and to restore the
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values that have made america the greatest nation in the history of the earth. >> so not a very good night for mitt romney. what does he have to do to regain his momentum? a question for my all-star panel. and host of real news, andrew, michael, and of course, the son of ronald reagan. and carol. a most state hospitalar lineup. we maintain our record. what a night. >> they said it was a beauty contest. i think romney got a bit of a black eye. i think it started last week when he stemmed on his own victory with that gap on cnn about not caring about the poor people. you can say it was a gaffe or taken out of context but it had momentum. and i heard michelle obama, at least in minnesota what may have been part of rick santorum's big
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win there was president obama's decision about the catholic hospitals and university's institutions, et cetera, vis-a-vis obama care. that this was a vote for the strong social conservative in the gop primary to go up against that decision. >> yeah. you can certainly tell by rick santorum's speech tonight that he sees a real gap now, opening up for him as what he calls the real conservative with real conservative values. and it is hard to argue given tonight's performance that he may not have a real shot now. >> i heard ben smith in the previous segment talking about mitt romney being the fait accomplice. she was about being mitt romney playing pretty good defense. as we've watched in football games in the last minute with defense, we've seen team lose that which was a given.
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and i'm looking at the big conservative conference at the end of the being which starts on thursday and goes through saturday. and you've got people like sarah palin showing up. newt gingrich speaking. you've got i believe, rick santorum is going to be there and even mitt romney is going to be there. i think that you'll see at c-pac speeches and a coagulation of thought that is going to potentially change the dynamic that you see here. until mitt romney reaches out to conservatives, which he's chosen not to do, this thing is not over. >> michael reagan, this is obviously a pretty bad night for mitt romney. not a great night for newt gingrich. all the talk tomorrow will be about rick santorum. no sign of newt gingrich anywhere in these three states. he is saying it is all about super tuesday in texas but it might be all over for him. >> before i came on the air, i tweeted, is giuliani running the newt gingrich campaign? the southern strategy, the
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florida strategy which didn't work. and it is not a good night at all for newt gingrich. he didn't show up. he wasn't there. he has this new strategy about taking the reagan southern states here. and by walking away from it he really left it open for rick santorum to say, hey, one-on-one i can beat mitt romney and this is the first time anyone has gotten over 50% of the vote in this whole primary season. that is huge for rick santorum. he does it because he has passion. he has a great story that he tells. and that story brings you into him and he is able to deliver. >> having interviewed him at length ten days ago, whatever it was. >> it was fascinating. >> he draws you in on a personal level. and not to say the others don't. but i felt with santorum, i said this before on the show. whether you agree with him or not on policy, as a human being, he is impressive. he has an empathy, a directness about him.
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he sticks to his principles. all those things work with voters. >> you have to have passion. people want a story. i've said this for so long. my father spoke to us in parables. we have too many politicians speaking to us in sound bites. and mitt talks to us in sound bites. newt speaks to us in sound bites. and trul trrick santorum is out telling a story. so is ron paul. conservatives again outpace the moderate in the race. >> carol roth, a fascinating race to observe from the outside. what is the reality? romney obviously has all the money. he has all the infrastructure. he has this image of the front-runner. and yet right now, if i was a betting man, i would say this will run for a long time. and i wouldn't rule out somebody like rick santorum. not after tonight. >> no. and we just came off the super bowl that started with a safety. so 2012 is wide open for anything to happen here.
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i think the learning here is that this reminded me about like a bunch of guys trying to woo a woman. and you have gingrich and mitt romney who are duking it out. having this macho contest and they're forgetting about the woman. then you have this guy here in a sweater vest saying, hey, i'm going to pay attention to you. i'm going to flatter you. i might buy you some flowers and chocolate. and he is building that connection that michael was about. that's what people want. the american people want a connection them want an emotional connection. mitt romney is not giving that to them. and this is again, a time. he needs to evolve and learn, it is his race to lose but he needs to pivot. >> yeah. amy, why is mitt romney not able to seal this deal? why is he unable, it appears, to show the kind of passion that maybe rick santorum is filling that void now? >> well, i think it's interesting that mitt romney to, he was very explicit that he is the guy in the race who is
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running as an outsider. he has never held a job in washington, in elective office on capitol hill which was of course kind of a sideswipe at rick santorum. but at the same time, he hasn't been in the conservative trenches either. so when he made that gaffe last week, a lot of conservatives said, hey, wait a minute. one of the reasons why i poverty. civic institutions, those intermediating institutions are important. mitt romney didn't know that. that wasn't a natural go to place. on the other hand, it's a weakness he hasn't been marinating in those conservative ideas that have been propelling the conservative movement inside washington. >> yeah. andrew breitbart, we have super tuesday looming. it seems to me it's becoming ever more crucial when you have so many states so many delegates at stake. really right now this kind of unstoppable romney momentum has
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stopped in the tracks. somebody described it -- i think it was david gurgen described it he's limping into super tuesday with two flat tires. >> i would say that mitt romney is having a bad tuesday night. i would also say that we pundits who are so great at pontificating is quite the loser because every single tuesday we come here having proved we were wrong the week before. >> speak for yourself, andrew. >> well, i was wrong. i'll admit it. >> i think we called the conservatives winning. over. >> and hold your thought, andrew. let's have a break and come back. i want you to regroup. a group of pundits. let's start again after the break. [ female announcer ] if whole grain isn't the first ingredient in your breakfast cereal, what is? now, in every box of general mills big g cereal,
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back with my all-star panel. andrew breitbart rightfully pointing out if i was to replay most of your predictions over the last few weeks we'd all look stupid. andrew, why has it been such a roller coaster race, do you think? >> i think a huge issue here is that the momentum in the conservative movement started with the tea party and mitt romney has never really had -- broken bread with the tea party. and they're waiting for him to call them and say, hey, maybe we shouldn't get together and have
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a conversation. i think that with santorum he just doesn't have the money. people don't know him that well. the mainstream media would like him to be the candidate against barack obama because in those blue states, in that new york and l.a. media market they sure have them targeted as a certain type. but i think that as michael reagan was talking about earlier, there's something likable about him and the american people as you saw tonight don't necessarily listen to what the mainstream media tells them to do. >> yeah, i mean, he is likable. one of the reasons i think is that he has the amazing family. this extraordinarily powerful story. and goes with him. which i spoke to him about it at length. there's something inspiring about him. >> he tells the story about the grandfather. >> all of it. i think that speech he made in iowa when he really did move people. and he went to every place in
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iowa to guarantee -- that kind of hard graft and real old fashioned american story is what's drawing people in, isn't i? >> absolutely right. he's got the story. he's got the passion that really we have been looking for. what the electorate has been looking for. i mean, one of the problems that mitt romney that andrew was talking about is reaching out the conservatives. in the last two or three weeks who's endorsed in fact mitt romney? bob dole, john mccain. how did they do when they ran for president of the united states? and the tea party exists because of people like john mccain. and so a tea party when they see john mccain on your team, start to back off. and so all of a sudden he starts to lose traction because even though he's making inroads in the tea party, the second they see john mccain show up, they leave. and george bush didn't have the doors open and they don't want to go through that again.
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>> if you're newt gingrich or mitt romney now, what do you do, given there's not much going on before super tuesday. we have maine and arizona, but really it's all gearing up to the hugely important day where there could be casualties. i mean, people may well be pulling out afterwards and you would have thought before that that might be rick santorum but you won't be thinking that now. >> certainly not. if you're newt gingrich the first thing to do is you go to edellson and beg for more money. he has no momentum here and if he runs out of money even though he's sort of the t.j. maxx of candidates, he does the maxx with the minimum, he needs money in order to compete. i think that's his strategy. mitt romney on the other hand needs to get out of his bubble. you're talking about rick santorum's family. we know very little about mitt romney's family. they seem like they're really nice and that they have a fantastic family unit, but he's shield them.
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he hasn't leveraged them an asset. so he needs to talk with his p.r. team, he needs to do more interviews and bring his family in. we need to get to know him better. if we don't this could be a very different race. >> i also think bringing -- bring in amy homes here. i interviewed mitt romney twice earlier in the year. he's gone awol, he doesn't do many interviews with cnn. won't come on this show at the moment, for reasons that baffle me. whereas the others will put themselves forward and i think they benefit from doing more personal interviews. you get to warm to them. mitt romney seems fixed on the strategy of i'll just do sound bite interviews and i'm going to keep being robotic. >> well, you know, i have -- i don't have an inside track on his campaign strategy but i would imagine they're trying to control the message and they have plenty of money to be running the campaign ads. you know, strategically to try
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to project that message. whereas his opponents, rick santorum and newt gingrich, they need that earned media. they need to sit with you in order to get the attention to keep moving forward. but in mitt romney's defense, he gave a touching story about his own father's boot straps to riches story. >> i suspect we'll see a lot more of that. my money would be on mitt romney would be on this show for an extended period of time. i hope he's watching. don't get too down about the terrible prediction, andrew, because mine have been worse than anybody's. that's the beauty of being a pundit. you can change your mind. thank you for your time. when we come back, will santorum's big night mean more donors will show him the money? . [ male announcer ] even if you think you can live with your old mattress... ask me how i've never slept better. [ male announcer ] ...why not talk
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at meineke i have options... like oil changes starting at $19.95. my money. my choice. my meineke. on this big night for rick santorum, is the republican race being reshaped? we'll talk with that to kathy pryor, ladies, welcome. >> hi. >> let me start you lynn. a pretty dramatic night i would think for the republican party. because the apparently run away romney train has firmly hit the buffers, hasn't it? >> i don't know if you can say it's hit the buffers. i think we should be pleased for rick santorum. he's such a nice, earnest man.
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it is his time in the sunlight. there are so many non-mitt candidates, sort of seems like this is probably his turn. as well-spoken as his campaign manager with you a moment ago, mitt romney is going to limp and maybe even get a little steam up to the nomination. john mccain lost 13 primaries out of 23 after he won florida. so you kind of have to bet it's still going to be romney's, but santorum does change the dialogue and let it go a little bit longer which is fun in an election year. >> yeah, the interesting thing i think here is i guess how the money men respond to this. because they need to work out where to put their cash. and if rick santorum is showing real legs here, then the money men may think hang on a second,
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we might need to get behind the guy. >> they have to hustle seriously because i was locking at numbers and the -- looking at numbers and the romney campaign had many millions raised and rick had 2.2. i think the biggest conversation coming out is he is at the forefront a vp candidate and might be a real match for romney. this is not in the bag for romney. there's a very, very long way to go. a lot of slipups could occur, but rick santorum has to find a lot of deep pockets that haven't emerged yet and has successes in places like arizona, other states that were already putting, you know, pretty seriously into the romney column for that picture to change. >> i mean, lynn, it's interesting, because rupert murdoch pretty much endorsed
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santorum in iowa. if more people decide he had a real chance, if he does well at super tuesday and gets more momentum and gets more money, why couldn't he be a serious threat to mitt romney? >> well, i think he could be a serious threat. i mean, it was a very bad poll number for mitt romney where 52% of the people who say the more they learn about mitt romney the less they like him and 38% of the people who left florida who went to the trouble of voting said they wish they had another alternative. so i think that santorum does have an opening here. his working class background, his sincerity and intelligence. his ability to run against washington is a little flawed.
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he has the votes on earmarks. he did vote to raise the debt ceiling. and focusing so much on the tea party and the conservative might play to the base for the nomination, or maybe like katherine says for the number two spot. but it's not going to play so well against barack obama. i would say the second happiest person in america after rick santorum is barack obama. >> yeah, probably even happier. the turnout looks like it was pretty low again. we're seeing a trend of this now. i mean, katherine, if the turnout continues to be low you have to be assume one of two things. one, the republican vote is not exercised enough against barack obama to come out and vote for their guys in big numbers. and second, they're not enamored with any of the candidates in the way they should be in the run-up to the election. >> i think it's the latter. because there's still talk of a brokered convention that someone
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might come out of the wood work. i think the likelihood is very slim. we can all remember the heated races or even the disaffected voters in one camp or the other. then when the general election comes along, particularly with if -- you know, the vehemence that republicans seem to have toward obama i think that will change. i think that i'll rally as difficult as that might seem, they'll rally behind the candidate. but right now what that's demonstrating as much as we're watching the campaigns, the voters are not fired up about the candidates, they're still looking for someone else. i'm going to see how the press deals with rick santorum. he didn't get it in iowa. we didn't learn for three weeks that he had actually won iowa and whether the careers as a lobbyist, the washington insider activities will taint the social
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conservatism that seems to be driving his campaign at this point. >> let's take a little break. i want to ask a really big question about mitt romney. is he just not sexy enough? is that the problem? vacations are always wasn'ta good ideaa ♪ priceline negoti - - no time. out quickly. you're miles from your destination. you'll need a hotel tonight we don't have time to bid you don't have to bid. at priceline you can choose from thousands of hotels on sale every day. save yourself... some money it's what he would have wanted. we want to protect the house. right. but... home security systems can be really expensive. to save money, we actually just adopted a rescue panther.
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back now with lynn forrester roth child and katherine crier. one of the problems with mitt romney people say he's dull and not sexy enough as a candidate. that's why people aren't getting overexcited by him. >> i'm more comfortable with the would you want to have a beer with him question. and how would you answer that one? >> i don't want to have a beer with him, frankly. he's not a person who is right there on the empathy scale. you don't feel like he's someone you really would want to spend the evening with, even though there's every reason to believe he's intelligent and competent and would be a very good president. but he definitely is lacking that touchy feely thing that he needs. i think he needs to sharpen up his message. he should read mitch daniel's response to president obama's state of the union address. it was this beautiful optimistic statement of we as republicans
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are the ones who will take care of people on the way up the ladder or who zoom in the way up the ladder. we don't have have's or have not's, but about to have's. i think rick santorum can do that a little bit better than mitt romney. i think that's the really important thing. we've got to have somebody strong and we've got to have somebody optimistic. >> and catherine, let me bring catherine in. having interviewed rick santorum a few times now, i find myself not agreeing with much of what he says necessarily. in fact, quite the contrary on several issues, but i do admire the fact he stuck to his guns even when things haven't been going well for him. he doesn't flip-flop.
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one of mitt romney's problems, you look at his track record, he doesn't hesitate to flip-flop if he thinks it will suit him. that may be a problem in terms of authenticity. >> and particularly on the social issues that are rick santorum's forte. but rick santorum, what you're saying about him is what lynn was saying. even when you disagree with him, he has an empathy. see it. i don't know that he has it. i don't think it can be trained between now and the general election. so rick santorum certainly is bringing a lot to the table with that, because people respond to that. even when they don't agree with all of his policies. >> thank you both very much for staying up at this unearthly hour. we'll actually be back tonight, that's how late i

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