tv State of the Union CNN September 16, 2012 9:00am-10:00am EDT
thafts fun. thank you. >> thanks, randi. >> thanks for watching today, and happy new year to all of our viewers celebrating rashashana. if you like, continue the conversation with me on-line. state of the union with candy crowley starts right now. is it really about an obscure promotion on youtube, or is there a bigger picture? today as anti-american protests hit the arab world a challenge of a different sort in the prickly relationship between president obama and israeli prime minister benjamin nut hue. >> what's guiding me is not the american political -- it's the iranian -- >> and the future of the president's outreach to the muslim world with u.s. ambassador of the united nations susan rice.
then democratic leader nancy pelosi, bullish on winning back the house. >> that was the pivotal day. >> plus, foreign policy and poll numbers with romney supporter and former new york city mayor rudy giuliani. i'm candy crowley. and this is "state of the union." another middle east problem this week. certain that iran is pursuing nuclear weapons, but pressure not to take military action right now. the prime minister of israel is pushing back. benjamin netanyahu argues the u.s. must set specific limits for iran. he suggested otherwise israel will move forward on its own. >> those in the international community will refuse to put red lines before iran don't have a moral right to place a red light before israel. >> netanyahu's call for a red line before iran is presumably the main top nick a private one-hour phone conversation with president obama this week.
secretary of state clinton said publicly the u.s. will not set any deadlines after which netanyahu told an israeli paper i hear all those people who say we should wait medical the very last innocent, but what if the u.s. doesn't intervene. that is the question. we have to ask. >> joining me now is israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, thank you so much for joining us, mr. prime minister. there has been all this talk about red lines put before iran that you have talked about. can you tell me what you would like that red line to be m best of all possible worlds for you and for israel, away would you like the u.s. to admit to in terms of a red line? >> i think the issue is how to prevent iran from completing its nuclear weapons program. they're moving very rapidly, completing the enrichment of the uranium they need to produce a nuclear bomb. in six months or so they'll be 90% of the way there. i think it's important to place a red line before iran, and i
think that actually reduces the chance of military conflict because if they know there's a stage in the enrichment or other nuclear -- they cannot cross because they'll face consequences, i think they'll actually not cross it. that's been proved time and again. they push back the wlikt and maybe purchase decades of peace, and there wasn't such a red line before saddam hussein, before the gulf war when he invaded wait. maybe that could have been avoided, and i think iran, too, has received some clear red lines on a number of issues, and they have backed off them. i think as iran gets closer and closer to the completion of its nuclear program, i think it's important to place a red line before them, and that's something i think we should discuss in the united states. >> let me read you something i know you're probably quite familiar with. for our viewers, something the
president has said repeatedly. this he said at the beginning of the year. as president of the united states i don't bluff. i think both the iranian and the israeli governments recognize that when the united states says it is unacceptable for iran to have a nuclear weapon, we mean what we say. do you disagree with that? >> i think that when he says that implicitly is that he will stop them before they have a nuclear weapon, which means they'll draw red lines. i think it's important to communicate it. i wouldn't bet -- i wouldn't bet the security of the world and my own country's future from a country that threatens our annihilation and murders civilians en masse in syria and brutalizes its own people. i wouldn't bet the future on intelligence for simple reasons. american intelligence and israeli intelligence that cooperate together. that wonderful success about saving lives and alerting the
people, and also, you know, you just marked 9/11. that wasn't seen. none of us, neither israel or the united states, saw iran building this massive nuclear bunker under a mountain for two years they proceeded without or knowledge, so i think the one thing we do know is what they're doing right now. we know that they're enriching this material. we know that in the six, seven months they'll have got the bomb material, and i think that we should count on the things that we do know in setting the red line. >> what we know is, of course, that iran is allowing international agreements to go ahead and do what it's doing because there are legitimate peaceful purposes for enriching this uranium. >> do you think so? you think so, candy? that's like -- well, let me -- it's not legitimate. this is a country that talks about -- denies the holocaust, promises to wipe out israel and is engaging terror throughout
the world, and it's like timothy mcveigh walking into a shop in oklahoma city and saying i like to tend my garden. i would like to buy some fertilizer. how much do you want? i don't know. 20,000 pounds. come on. we know that they're working towards the weapons. we know that. it's not something that we surmise. we have facts and data, and events include a nuclear program. >> do you mean you and the u.s. know that, because i don't from what i read, from what i hear, i don't get the sense that the u.s. has the certainty that you do or the urgency that you seem to have. is there a disconnect there? >> first of all, i talked about the certainty of their enrichment, and i spoke about knowing other things, but we have no difficulty as the iaea reports about what they're doing and their enrichment. that we know for sure. that's the only thing we know for sure that is verifiable.
we know that. as far as the u.s. and israel, obviously we have different capability. you're a big country. you're several thousand miles away. you have stronger military capabilities. we're a smaller country. we are more vulnerable. we threaten our annihilation, so obviously we have different capabilities and different clocks, but in terms of what is happening is iran is getting closer and closer to completing its work for the first bomb. the differences between us in our capabilities are becoming less and less important because iran is fast approaching a point where it could disappear from our capability of stopping and our capability means -- >> i get the sense that your hour-long phone conversation with president obama did not get you where you wanted to go
insofar as u.s. willingness to set this red line. is that correct? >> we had a good conversation. i'm not going to get into the details. i respect the president. i respect the confidence of our conversation, but i think that -- i hi this is a matter of urgency and people should understand it. that's what's guiding me, contrary to what i have read in the united states, is not the american political calendar. it's the iranian nuclear calendar. the iran wran centrifuges that are charging ahead simply do not take time out for the american election. i wish the iranians would shut down, and then we won't have to talk about it, but they don't. in fact, they do the very opposite. that's what's driving the urgency. again, we have post-consultations with the united states on this one. >> is the answer then, no, you don't have the red line that you would like to have in the u.s.? can you tell me at least that? >> i think you should have a red
line communicated, and i think it's vital. i know that people value flexibility. i think that's important. at this late stage of the game, i think iran needs to see clarity. i would not have said this two years ago, one year ago, but as we get closer and closer and closer to -- i think we have to establish that's becoming important because you have to just think about it. you know, you see the middle east. you see these embassies, and i want to send my condolences to the american people. the loss of the extraordinary ambassador and his extraordinary -- we sympathize as no other people do with the united states. yet, you know that as we face the possibility of a regime that is guided by the same fanaticism to have nuclear weapons, it's become something urgent for all of us to make sure they don't
get there, and if you want to make sure that they don't get there, make sure that they know that there's a line they shouldn't cross. otherwise, they'll cross it, and they'll get there. >> people in your own country have said that this is more aimed at president obama and your friend mitt romney than it is about any new urgency, and i know you have heard this, and i wanted to ask you as a wrap-up question, do you see any major differences between the u.s. position visa vi the relationship with israel when you look at president obama's position and when you look at former governor romney's position? is there any difference in their policies towards israel that you can detect? >> look, i know that people, candy, are trying to draw me into the american election, and i'm not going to do that. i will say that we value, we cherish bipartisan support for israel in the united states, and we're supported by democrats and republicans alike.
this is not an electoral issue. this is not based on my electoral consideration. i think there's a common interest of all americans over all political persuasions to stop iran. this is a regime that is getting vent to the worst impulses can you see right now in the middle east. to deny the rights of women, deny democracy. all the things that you see now in these mobs swarming the american embassy, what you see with the regime, you can't -- i believe that's -- the republicans as it is for democrats -- president obama as it is for mitt romney. it's important for the future of our world. >> prime minister benjamin netanyahu, that's a good place for us to end it.
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in his second inaugural address president obama said the u.s. would sec seek out and promote democracy around the globe. >> the survival of liberty in our land increasingly depends on the success of liberty in other lands. the best hope for peace in our world is the expansion of freedom in our world. >> in cairo four years later president obama reached out the muslim world with a new version of the same idea. >> i know there has been controversy about the promotion of democracy he in the middle
east. let me be clear. no system of government can or should be imposed by one nation, by ner other. that does not lessen my commitment, however toe governments. >> and then early last year uprisings on the arab streets toppled longstanding ought accuratic regimes in tunisia and libya with the explicit yet sometimes delayed support of the west. this week in at least 23 countries around the world the people returned to the street to protest. sometimes violently. sometimes not. u.s. man to the u.n. susan rice is next. but your erectile dysfunction that could be a question of blood flow. cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready.
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ambassador. >> good to be with you, candy. >> one of the things when i spoke with the israeli prime minister that struck me was the conviction that he has that for certain iran is building on its way to building a nuclear weapon and his sense of urgency that at this moment the u.s. immediate to set what he calls a red line for the u.s. does the u.s. share the conviction that iran is it, indeed, building a nuclear weapon and be -- what about the concept of a red line? >> well, candy, the united states is in constant communication with israel and israeli intelligence, israeli policy makers. the military. we're sharing our assessments every day, and our intelligence assessments are very similar. obviously, we share a grave concern about iran pursuing a nuclear weapon. we are determined to prevent that from happening. president obama has been absolutely clear, and on this there's absolutely no daylight between the united states and
israel that we will do what it takes to prevent iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon. we are not at that stage yet. they do not have a nuclear weapon. our shared intelligence assessments is that there is still a considerable time and space before they will have a nuclear weapon should they make the decision to go for that, but we've been very clear. the united states is not interested and is not pursuing a policy of containment. president obama has been very plain. we will keep all option on the table, including the military option, as necessary, to prevent iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon, but, candy, the fact is we have just seen the imposition of another layer of the toughest sanctions that have ever been impose odd a country. in this case, iran. their economy is beginning to buckle. their oil production is down 40%. their currency has plummeted 40% in the last year. their economy is now shrinking. and this is only going to
intensify, so we think that there's still considerable time for this pressure to work, but this is not an infinite window, and we've made very clear that the president's bottom line is iran will not have a nuclear weapon. >> let me move you to what's gone on in the middle east in arab countries and elsewhere. there is a "new york times" story this morning that suggests that the administration thinks this is a foreshadowing of a fall that will see sustained instability. does the administration expect to see these sorts of protests outside u.s. embassies and elsewhere throughout the fall? >> well, candy, first of all, let's recall what has happened in the last several days. there was a hateful video that was disseminated on the internet. it had nothing to do with the united states government and it's one that we find disgusting and rep rehencible. it's been offensive to many, many people around the world. that sparked violence in various parts of the world, including
violence directed against western facilities including our embassies and violence. it's not a response that one can ever condone when it comes to such a video, and we have been working very closely and, indeed, effect tily with the governments in the region and around the world to secure our personnel, secure our embassy, condemn the violent response to this video, and, frankly, we've seen these sorts of incidents in the past. we've seen violent responses to satanic verz. we've seen violent responses to the cartoons depicting the prophet mohammed in an evil way, so this is something we've seen in the past, and we expect that it's possible that these kinds of things could perculate into the future. what we're focused on is securing our personnel, securing our facilities. >> do you at this moment feel that u.s. embassies abroad are
secure. >> we are doing our utmost to secure our personnel and in various vulnerable plays. we have demanded and we are receiving the cooperation of host governments, host government advisory put out very strong messages in libya and egypt and yemen. >> why would one not look at what is going on in the middle east now and say that the president's outreach to muslims which began at the beginning of his administration in cairo and elsewhere has not worked because, yes, this video sparked it, but there is an underlying anti-americanism that is very evident on the streets so, why not look at it and think that this is this outreach that's failed. >> for the same reason, candy,
when you look back at history and we had the horrible experience of our facilities and our personnel being attack beirut in 1992. we had the attack on kobar towers in the 1990s. we had an attack on our embassy in yemen in 2008. there had been such attacks. there had been expressions of hostility towards the west. >> it was a reset, was it not? it was supposed to be a reset of u.s.-muslim relations? >> there had been substantial improvements. i have been to libya and walked the streets of benghazi myself, and despite what we saw in that horrific incident where some mob was hijacked ultimately by a handful of extremists, the united states is extremely popular in libya and the outpouring of sympathy and support for ambassador stevens and his colleagues from the government and from people as evidence of that, the fact is, candy, that this is a turbulent time. it's a time of dramatic change. it's a change that the united states has backed because we
understand that when democracy takes root, when human rights and people's freedom of expression can be manifested, it may lead to turbulence in the short-term, but over the long-term, that is in the interest of the united states. the mobs we've seen on the outside of these embassies are small minority. they're the ones who have largely lost in these emerging democratic processes, and just as the people of these countries are not going to allow their lives to be hijacked by a dictator, they're not going to allow an extremist mob to hijack their future and their freedom, and we're going to continue to stand with the vast majority of the populations in these countries. they want freedom. they want a better future. understand that we're with them in that long-term endeavor. >> all right. u.s. ambassador to the u.n., susan rice. i have to let you go here. >> thank you. thank you very much. we'll switch gears next and talk to democratic minority leader nancy pelosi about her road map to retake control of the house. and later, a batch of fresh polls show mitt romney may be losing steam in his bid for the
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no matter what they promise as a candidate, presidents can't do much of what they want without a cooperative congress, which brings us to the u.s. house currently run by republicans who hold 240 seats compared to 190 held by democrats. they need a net gain of 25 seats in november. at the democratic convention earlier this month, house democratic leader nancy pelosi told reporters she's looking for a 27 seat pick-up. that would put her in line to regain the speakership. she is expecting victories in texas, california, illinois, new york, washington state, and arizona. democrats are also eyeing power changing winds in the presidential battleground states of florida, ohio, iowa, and nevada, and there is even talk about montana where the house seat has been republican for 15 years. we should stress that most polls point to and most political forecasters predict that democrats will gain seats, but
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we began with the democrats' chances for winning back the majority in november. >> i read something in "roll-call" that described the prospects for democrats retaking the house as theoretically possible but unlikely. would you agree with that? >> no. >> i think that, first of all, i don't know what that is, but i do know that the source of our confidence is, and that's the quality of our candidates. they're just great. the fact that they are strong in terms of their groos roots mobileization and their resource raise and the rest, and that the issues are with us. for one year and a half since the republicans passed their budget, which the romney-ryan now, republican budget, which severs the medicare guarantee, we have been saying three important issues ms campaign, and in alphabetical order they are medicare, medicare, medicare. on august 11th when governor romney chose ryan, that was the
pivotal day. >> paul ryan has become an intellectual leader of the republican party. >> that is a day things really changed. we were on a path. i would have said to you then we were dead even. well, momentum is very much with us. the medicare issue in this campaign. we have a message. we have the messengers. we have money. we have the mobilization. we have an excellent chance to take back the house. >> just quickly, the romney campaign says that medicare will always be a choice, but that they want to open it up so that they're not cutting off the medicare option. >> that's completely upside down. it's a contradiction of medicare. medicare is a guarantee. to make it a voucher is to put the decision in the hands of the insurance companies. seniors know that. i'm not a senior. i know that. the whole pillar that thifr
families who need their parents and grandparents to be provided for. everybody understands that. if you don't believe in medicare, you will say what the republicans are saying. >> let me ask you, if it should turn out that you gain seats in the house, but you don't take over the majority spot, would you still run for leader of democrats? >> i don't predicate that we're losing. i feel very confident about our ability to win. who will lead the party after that is up to my members. >> would you still run, whether it was for speaker or democratic -- >> actually, i didn't choose to run last time. my members chose that i would run last time. this isn't about me. this is about medicare. it's about social security. it's about women's rights. it's about the american dream. it's about our democracy. all of that is on the ballot. >> if we look at the polls rather than the possibilities,
it looks as though there is an even chance that the senate republicans could take over and that the probability is that democrats will not take over in the house. let's say everything stays as is and the president is re-elected. what's different about the dynamic that has been so toxic between capitol hill and the white house if we have what currently the polls show is -- you know, if the election were held today? >> well, with that theoretical, the -- you'll see more of the same because it's really important for the public to know that the republican obstruction of president obama's jobs bills and whatever he was advancing, obstruction is their agenda. they really don't believe in -- >> does that change? if nothing changes in the dynamic -- >> it's what they believe in. i have always said in my republicans take become your party because this wing of the party or this over the edge
crowd that is in charge -- taking charge of wagging the dog in congress because they don't believe in a public roll. clean air, public transportation, public health, medicare, medicaid, public education. they don't believe in it, and that's what their budget is about, and that's what wee we vote on the floor almost every day. >> do you see that change sng. >> no, don't. that's why it's important for us to win the elections so that we can go forward because bipartisan collaboration is on the ballot too. when president bush, george w. bush, was president and we were in the majority and i was the speaker, we had our differences. we fought, but we also found common ground. >> i hank the leadership of the congress for joining us here. >> there are so many places where we came together. >> so you could work with mitt romney basically? if it came to that. >> mitt romney is not going to be president of the united states. >> let me ask you --
>> i think everybody knows that. >> the president has put out his -- by law he had to put out a response to detail what its cut and what doesn't get cut under what we call sequestration when you just mandate across the board cuts in both sides of the ledger. the republicans have complained repeatedly that there is no presidential leadership on this. in treeing to get republicans to avoid this fiscal cliff. >> well, the president has basically said yesterday. i received a call from him saying we really do have to have an agreement chshgs i fully agree with, and the must have -- do everything we can to find common ground. that's what we did one year ago. more than a year ago in july, august of last year on the president worked very hard with the speaker to come out with a
bipartisan agreement that was a big design and deficit reduction. house and senate democrats said mr. president, we're with you on this. he agreed to it. the republicans walked away. i mean, the image that we have is a president that does not do that as much as bill clinton did in terms of offering guidance and reaching out to republicans, reaching out to you. the level of leadership from the president when it comes to legislative things compared to former president clinton. >> well, i would say that they both score very high in terms of leadership. if you measure leadership in the number of phone calls, well, that might be a little bit of a different story because they're different personalities. >> yeah, more contact with bill clinton over the years. >> well, i wasn't leader ear speaker when president clinton was president, but we all -- but i saw how he worked with
congress and our leadership at the time. president obama is, of course, a agreed leader. he has great vision for our country. he knows the issues. he has a plan where. he is eloquent and can draw people to what he has to say, and that's all great. he also is such a respectful person. i have never seen -- i worked with presidents to a great or blesser degree wrosh to a greater degree of president bush and president obama, and this president has listened, spent time, respects the opinions of the republicans to an extent which i think one would come up with a new idea because he has more patience listening to them than i do. really, leadership should not be measured in the number of calls.
>> perhaps bill clinton was more hands on than president obama, but you think they both showed leadership? >> i think they're both hands on. it's just a question of how they spent their time and the challenges are very great today that the president -- as they were under president clinton, but i think he uses his time well. i have no complaints with that. >> nancy pelosi, thank you for your time. >> thank you. my pleasure. battleground polls show trouble for governor mitt romney. supporter and former new york city mayor rudy jewel ay is here next. just picking up some, brochures, posters copies of my acceptance speech. great! it's always good to have a backup plan, in case i get hit by a meteor. wow, your hair looks great. didn't realize they did photoshop here. hey, good call on those mugs. can't let 'em see what you're drinking. you know, i'm glad we're both running a nice, clean race. no need to get nasty. here's your "honk if you had an affair with taylor" yard sign. looks good. [ male announcer ] fedex office. now save 50% on banners.
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so with that in mind, tell me who had the better week this week, president obama or mitt romney? >> well, i think clearly mitt romney. largely because what we see is the president's policies in the middle east falling apart. i mean, the reality is the president got elected to reset our relationship in the middle east. we might as well not have had the reset. i mean, look at the american flag being burned. unrest in 20 countries. a front page article in "the "new york times"" today saying they anticipate numerous additional demonstrations over the next four or five months. america is no more popular in the middle east as it was four years ago, and now in addition to that, we've shown this kind of provocative weakness to the middle east, and we were for mubarak before we were against mubarak. we were more or less neutral on gadhafi until we wanted to overthrow him. hillary clinton announced that assad was a reformer. now we want to overthrow him. we don't seem to be willing to set a red line for iran when that's exactly what jack kennedy
did in the cuban missile crisis. you do that any time you are dealing with a provocative enemy that needs to know how far can you go so we have no confusion? the president refuses to do it. prime minister netanyahu is absolutely correct in pushing him to do it. >> there are plenty of people who would argue that the president as commander in chief had a better week, but i want to move you on to some things that are possibly troubling inside the romney campaign. this is the latest look at some battleground states from the nbc news maris poll. ohio, it has president obama up seven points, and in florida and virginia the same poll has president obama up five points. what is wrong there? >> nothing is wrong. it's called an election. >> well, that's -- some of these -- those are pretty good leads compared to what we have seen before. >> i don't know. those are the kinds of leads john kerry had on election day, and george bush became the president.
you know? so those are -- those are margins that are well within striking distance for either candidate to be overconfident about who is going to win this election. in fact, whoever is overconfident about whoever is going to win this election is probe going to lose it. this is a darn close election. whoever expected what happened in the last week, week and a half with -- in this election. this is going to be an election about the economy. it's now becoming an election that's looking an awful lot like 1980 with jim jimmy carter style president in the white house. >> certainly, you would agree, certainly, that having american hostages held for 444 days is a little different from having a protest outside american embassies, and we have the tragic deaths of these four americans in libya which a lot of folks are arguing is a different thing from saying everything here is failed. the question is do you actually
believe that this no longer is about the economy? >> no, no, i do. i believe it's about the economy, but i believe the situation in the middle east is becoming more important. kennedy, i would argue that the situation in iran is equally as dangerous as it was with the hostages hostages except this time they want to become nuclear and the president is fiddling while they're moving ahead. he had to be forced to use these crippling sanctions which he's used late. i don't know how crippling they are since he's exempted 20 countries from them. even the u.n. say the sanctions aren't working. they're not working. the president doesn't want to deal with it. >> at this point can you tell me something different in mitt romney's proposed policies toward iran than president obama's policies? they both said iran should not be allowed to acquire a nuclear weapon, period. what's different? >> well, i believe that mitt romney would set a red line. he'd make it clear -- >> why doesn't he do that now? >> he might over the course of these debates. he might very well do it.
although you'd engage in criticizing him for being engaged in foreign policy. mitt romney can't win. he spoke out as a leader by a really ridiculous statement by the state department for 16 hours. all of a sudden he gets criticized. i mean the administration was clearly wrong about the level of security needed for that ambassador and consulate. and you had nancy pelosi saying they had enough security. if they're as wrong about that as that, we're in serious trouble. >> let me return to the issue of economy. when you look at a new york times/cbs poll, this was about the probable electorate and the question was which candidate would do a better job of handling the economy and unemployment. president obama, 47%, mitt romney, 46%. your candidate has lost the edge when it comes to the economy.
if the economy is as bad as republicans have told us it is, what is holding mitt romney back here because from your description of the economy, others' description of the economy, this really should be a president that doesn't have a chance and yet he's beating mitt romney. >> there's no such thing as an incumbent president doesn't have a chance. having a presidency has an enormous advantage. he's done well. an unfair one but they've done a good job of raising all kinds of irrelevant questions about mitt romney and paul ryan and the romney/ryan campaign has to overcome that. if you look at the fundamentals, no american president has ever been elected with these kinds of job loss numbers an permanent unemployment. we haven't had something like this since the great depression. >> which argues for why he isn't doing better. but let me in our final moments ask you weather you believe that
the romney campaign, that mitt romney needs to come out and say specifically here's what i would do to reform the tax code, here are the loopholes i would close. does he need to be more specific? does he need to give a foreign policy speech now? the wrath now is there are none out there. does he need do that? >> they're running scared. romney's not ahead by 10 points or 15 points which, of course, would be totally unrealistic. i think he's running a fine campaign. my goodness, president obama wasable terribly specific four years ago when he told us he was -- he ran on hope and change. hope and change. what a strategy that's been for the middle east. hope and change and now we have demonstrations in 20 countries. >> all right. mr. mayor, thank you so much for joining us this morning. >> thank you. >> come see us any time. >> always a pleasure, candy. thank you. a tribute to five american heroes after this. and ballet, d cheerleading, and baseball.
just the day before, a memorial service was held here honoring neil armstrong, the first man to walk on the moon. he died at the age of 82. armstrong never saw himself as a hero, but his extraordinary accomplishments didn't just leave his mark on the moon but here on earth too. thanks for watching "state of the union." ♪ >> neil will always be remembered for taking humankind's first small step in a world beyond our own. no one, no one, but no one could have accepted the responsibility of his remarkable accomplishment with more dignity and more grace than neil armstrong. he embodied all that is good and all that is great about america.
♪ gracious god, on behalf of a grateful nation and in the presence of grieving family members, friends, and colleagues, we welcome home for the final time ambassador chris stevens, mr. sean smith, mr. glen doherty, and mr. tyrone woods. >> if the last few days teach us anything, let it be this. that this work and the men and women who risked their lives to do it are at the heart of what makes america great and good. >> four americans, four patriots, they loved this country. and they chose to serve it and served it well. they
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