tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN September 29, 2013 1:00pm-2:00pm EDT
archer davis, thank you. appreciate it. sotu for analysis and if you missed any part of today's show, find us on itunes, just search state of the union. national security adviser susan rice is next for our viewers here in the united states. this is gps, the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we have a very important show with two presidents and iran's only jewish member of parliament. we'll start with an exclusive interview with the national security adviser, susan rice, on iran, syria, the middle east and more. then the terror attack in kenya, somalia terror-based group carried it out. i'll talk to that country's president who says al shabaab is
not just a threat to somalia or kenya, but the entire world. i will talk to president ghoul of turkey, which is, of course, syria's neighbor. in iran's delegation to the u.n. was the only jewish member of parliament. we tracked him down and i talked to him. but before we get to all that, hew eris my take. hassan rowhani presents himself as a striking contrast to his predecessor. for the past year, the president of iran has held a breakfast meeting with a small group of journalists. in recent years that had become a depressing routine. mahmoud ahmadinejad would saunter in, deny the holocaust and taunt us, his invited guests. rowhani arrived punctually, in flowing clerical robes and spoke
intelligently and precisely. the meeting was off the record. i was struck by rowhani's optimism on the nuclear issue, which he said could be resolved in a very short time. the world wants to be assured that our program is peaceful, and we want to help them gain that confidence. rowhani also admitted that the economic sanctions against his country had taken a heavy toll, denying people food and medicine. he suggested that both the united states and iran had made miscalculations, but that, he said, was in the past. he was hopeful about better relations. i came away willing to believe rowhani is a pragmatist. whether he has the authority to act on behalf of his government as you know clear. consider what happened tuesday when iranians turned down a white house offer during a brief
meeting with president obama. he said in principle he had no problem with a handshake but said it was a sensitive issue and would have been the first such meeting and so steps have to be taken with proper preparation. if rowhani does not have the freedom to shake obama's hand, does he have the freedom to negotiate a nuclear deal with him? the tehran government, remember, has another side made up of the revolutionary guard, the special force whose political influence has grown over the past decade. these people are hard line on all foreign polishes. they also profit from the sanctions because their businesses have become the only paths for trade and smuggling. america's doubts about rowhani's power can be addressed only over time and through iranian actions, but iranians also have doubts about obama's power. the new iranian president appears willing to cooperate on the nuclear issue in return for a relaxation of the sanctions
crippling his country, but can president obama provide any such relief? iran has dozens of sanctions against it, some based on u.n. security council resolutions, others are decisions by the european union, others are acts of congress and still others are executive orders of the u.s. president. obama can unilaterally lift only the latter, the least burdensome. most ownerous, by far, are the acts passed by congress. those will be the most difficult to lift. in theory, it's able to devise a rational process that requires verification by iran and then easing by the united states. that would require congress to behave in a rational manner. clearly a fantasy today. almost regardless of its content would instantly be denounced by
republicans as a sellout. obama administration is conscious of this other side of american government. much of the macho rhetoric emanating from the administration about iran coupled with the charges of being soft. it remains unclear whether iran can say yes to a nuclear deal and it makes it equally unclear whether the united states can say yes as well. rowhani and obama are probably each looking at the other and thinking the same thing, can he deliver? for more go to cnn.com/fareed and read my washington post column this week and let's get started. joining me now is president obama's national security adviser, susan rice. welcome, ambassador rice. >> thank you, fareed. good to be with you. >> the president has now spoken
to president rowhani. john kerry has met with his counterpart. do you think that the iranians are negotiating seriously? >> well, it's too soon to know that, fareed. what happened earlier this week is that secretary kerry joined by the foreign ministers of russia and china, the uk, france and germany met and, of course, the eu chief negotiator kathy ashton met for the first time at the foreign minister level with the new iranian foreign minister. that was a constructive discussion, but it really was a scene setter in which the iranians underscored their commitment not to pursue a nuclear weapon, but peaceful nuclear energy where we and others underscored where iran had to meet under security council resolutions and the sanctions would remain until those obligations were satisfied. and yet both sides also
committed to continue the diplomacy this month -- next month, rather, in mid october in geneva, where the negotiations will begin in earnest and the sides will have an opportunity to pick up where they left off some months ago, hopefully with a new iranian negotiating position and one that is consistent with the message that president rowhani delivered across new york this week, in that they sensed a degree of urgency resolving this, that they are deeply committed doing so at the negotiating table and that they only seek nuclear power for peaceful purposes. obviously, we and others in the international community have every reason to be skeptical of that and we need to test it, and any agreement must be fully verifiab verifiable. >> the president the united states respects iran's right to
access peaceful nuclear energy. that wording made me think that it's not clear that he's saying he respects the right to actually enrich uranium, which could be part of a peaceful nuclear energy program. is it the position of the united states that iran cannot enrich uranium? >> fareed, those words were chosen very deliberately. the united states has not spoken about a right of iran to enrich. we have said that fulfilling its responsibilities under the iaea resolutions as well as the u.n. security council resolutions that once it's done that, we would recognize that like every other nation as a good standing member has a right to the use of peaceful nuclear energy. that is obviously a very long-held position and it's not a new position expressed by the united states or by others.
but we're some distance from that being achievable, obviously. right now iran remains in noncompliance with its obligations. >> prime minister netanyahu set out conditions he believed iran would have to fulfill for the sanctions to be lifted. are those conditions also the united states', are they similar? >> obviously, we are in constant contact and communication with our israeli allies and other key allies in this process and we have been largely united in agreeing on the process going forward and on what is necessary to give us a shared degree of confidence. when i say us, i mean all of us in the international community a shared agree of confidence that iran's nuclear program, if there is to be one, is only for peaceful purposes. i'm not going to get into the contours of a negotiation that really hasn't gotten under way
in any meaningful way, but rather to say that we have been on the same page in the p5 plus one. and with israel and other partners in the region. and indeed within the entire international community trying u.n. security council resolutions insisting on the steps that need to be taken. >> congress in dealing with some issues, wouldn't it be fair for the iranians to look at all of this and say even if we were to comply, the iranians, president obama will not be able to get congress to lift the sanctions? there are ten acts of congress and those are the most harsh sanctions on iran. will congress lift the sanctions if president obama says iran has moved and negotiated in good faith? >> look, fareed, we worked in good collaboration with congress over the years.
there are many layers of sanctions, as you know. multi-lateral sanctions which we achieved in unprecedented degree in the united nations security council, sanctions that the european union has imposed and sanctions we have taken on a national basis, legislated by congress but also a number that have been ten on the basis of executive action. we would, obviously, be working very closely with congress through the course of any negotiation. and if it were to bear fruit, we would be working to bring congress along with us. the goals have always been the same. the goals of our national sanctions as well as the multilateral sanctions are not to be an end in themselves but to supply sufficient pressure so that iran feels compelled to give up its nuclear program and any ambition for nuclear weapons at the negotiating table. if that goal were achieved in a verifiable and sustainable manner that congress would be
able to see that it had contributed very significantly toward getting to that place. >> susan, quick question before we go to our break. is this just a nuclear deal with iran or is there a prospect of actual normalization of relations between the united states and iran? >> fareed, i wouldn't really want to get too far out in front. just on friday, we had the first conversation between president obama and the new president of iran. secretary kerry met with his counterpart, first meaningful exchange at that level in the same period of time. and negotiation at the p5 plus one have not really begun in a substantive way. so it's too early to assume either the prospect of agreement on the nuclear program, which we hope to be able to achieve, but we're quite sober about the potential for that, and that obviously would need to be a
first step before going on to discuss other aspects of the u.s./iranian relationship, which has a long way to go before you get to the state of normalization. if we could get there, that would be in the interest of the iranian people and a talented group of people, in a country with a rich history. if we could have a peaceful resolution of a nuclear program and other behavior that has concerned us, we could begin a serious discussion about the future. >> stay right there. we will be right back in a moment to talk about syria and what's going to happen there. later in the show, two exclusives with two presidents, from turkey and somalia. ♪
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the russians did not agree to. does that mean that the united states would take unilateral military action if syria does not comply? >> it means certainly we reserve that option, fareed, to take whatever enforcement action we deem appropriate, whether military or otherwise. i think it's important for people to understand what this resolution accomplishes. in fact, it does say in very clear-cut terms that if there is noncompliance on the part of the syrians, there will be action taken under chapter 7 of the united nations charter. chapter 7 is the only chapter that calls for and allows for enforcement action. obviously, in any circumstance, we would need to come back to the security council if we sought multilateral endorsement of such action. in the circumstances, have a negotiation about what that action ought to be.
but it's very significant that this strong and binding resolution, which holds syria to the that were negotiated, in the case of noncompliance, that was a very strong element of the resolution that was negotiated going back to geneva a couple of weeks ago. >> inherent in this resolution is the necessity for president assad to be a kind of partner in the sense that he will have to implement this resolution and cooperate with the u.n. inspectors. the position of the united states government, as expressed by the government, is regime change. assad has to go. how can you do both at same time? partner with him to destroy the
chemical weapons and at the same time trying to get rid of him? >> the the position of the united states has been and remains very clear, that is that assad must go. he has lost his legitimacy, gassed his own people, inflict ed terror on his citizens. now the resolution and the agreement doesn't speak about assad as an individual. it speaks about the requirements of the syrian government. that's an important distinction. whatever syrian government is there, near term or in the future, will have the same obligation to implement these commitments and this resolution faithfully. this is not specific to assad. it's specific to what is now the syrian regime and those obligations would trickle down to any subsequent government.
>> there have been reports that some of the key rebel groups in syria, one led -- quite a large one, have broken ties with the moderate political opposition in exile and have cast their lot with the al qaeda affiliates. does the administration still believe that the vast majority of the syrian rebels are moderates and democrats, even as some of these groups are announcing the need for an islamic state? >> fareed, there have long been significant -- those that are moderate, in our judgment, extremists and somewhere in between. that remains the case. the u.s. policy has long been to support the moderate opposition. we are ramping up our support, political, economic and otherwise, to that moderate opposition, including its military component on the ground. we've been very careful to try to avoid in any way
strengthening the extremist part of the opposition. in some respects it's clarifying and in some respects it makes it easier for the united states to ensure that the support we're providing is going exactly to those people where we intended to go. >> if assad does not comply and if congress does not pass or approve a resolution, as seen likely the last time around, would the president still use his powers as commander in chief to authorize a strike? >> the president has been very clear that we remain postured to act if the choice is taken by him and if the necessity arises. we're not taking any options off the table. and the president has been very clear that as commander in chief, he has the authority to act in the interest of the
united states and use force if necessary. >> ambassador susan rice, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> national security adviser to the president. >> thank you, fareed. >> lots more ahead on "gps." two presidents from turkey and somalia. up next, unique perspective on iran. i caught up with the only jewish member of parliament in iran. s to roll out a summer filled with activity. from atlanta to l.a., people all over found that getting moving can be fun. in fact, it can be a day at the beach! all in all, we inspired three million people to rediscover the joy of being active. now, let's keep it going all year long and make a difference... together. help the gulf when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened
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now time for our "what in the world segment." this is an interview. and that's because the thing that caught my eye this week with his a person who accompanied iran's president to the united nations. he is the only jewish member of the parliament in iran. you will remember iran's last president, mahmoud ahmadinejad, denied that the holocaust ever happened. so what is life like for jewish people in iran? i asked him. >> pleasure to have you on. >> it's very nice to be here. >> let me start by asking you,
do you have any concerns that president rowhani does not acknowledge the holocaust or is in some way hostile to jews? >> well, there is no concern for the iranian jew because we are part of the iranian nation and we are living in iran for more than 30 century. we are same as any other iranian people and full citizen of iran. president ahmadinejad, there were some problems with iranian jewish society and some of us stating that you are not in the correct way and you must change your dialogue and your ideas about holocaust. >> what did he say? >> and i think he changed step by step. in the early days there were some problems, but after that -- >> the days of ahmadinejad's
presidency? >> yes. after that, there was not a problem during the ahmadinejad period. >> do you feel, as a jew in i n iran, do you feel in any way? >> of course. being a minority, we have some problems. after the revolution, step by step problems are being solved. today our condition is better than yesterday and today our condition is much better than 10 or 20 years ago. >> are you allowed to worship freely, go to synagogue, observe religious days and objecticcasi? >> you can go to synagogue. we have kosher bushr butchery. in tehran, there is 10 kosher
butchery, 5k osher restaurant. we have our specific school. there is today more than five jewish school in tehran and our children are completely free to go to jewish school or public school. i think there is a difference between religion and race and i think that our country in the war, democratic kind of way slem selected by the country. if most people are jew and they want to have a jewish country, this is no specific problem. but i must respect the right of other people to have a country for themselves and live in a peaceful condition. >> are you a zionist? >> nochlt it means i'm not in direct competition.
many jew in different parts of the world have -- israel regime and israel army. many have severe critics of the israel regime and israel army. and there are some problems with the behavior of zionists. every country that goes in a human rights behavior has the right to -- >> dung of the israeli government's attitude toward iran? there is talk to aisrael might attack iran's nuclear facilities. >> every man and every political man does not want to start a war. everyone who has started a war in the media cannot finish it. starting a war is an unwise
decision. you see, in iran/iraq war, all of the iranian people participated in the war for defending their country. for example, myself was a volunteer for more than 80 months in iran/iraq war. and i am sure if anyone want to attack my country, i am ready to donate my blood for my country. my message for all of the jew in the world is that we, all of us, as the followers of moses and believers to torah must do in the right way that torah says. and the most important point of judaism is a specific sentence which says -- and it means that you must like your brother and sister such as yourself. >> pleasure to have you on. >> was pleasure to be here.
iran's population is about 75 million, according to the latest census. less than 9,000 iranians, that is .012% of the total, are jewish. lots mor ahead on the show today. two more exclusives with two presidents, turkey's abdullah gul on the conflict next door. his countries shares a 5 h00 million with syria. i'm on expert on softball. and tea parties.
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we're just hours away from when the government could potentially shut down. the deadline is monday at midnight. senate majority leader harry reid has already said the bill will fail. let's go to brianna keilar live at the white house with more. brianna? >> reporter: good morning, alison. it is eerily quiet at the white
house today and in washington in general. we expect the senate not to be meeting until tomorrow. we expect the senate will vote on a government funding bill and take that house passed bill from last night and strip out what the house added, which is the delayed implementation of obama care. because of that, house speaker john boehner take iing aim and saying if it stalls until monday afternoon, it would be an act of breathtaking arrogance by the democratic leadership. it looks like the possibility of a shutdown is more and more likely. >> brianna, we continue to follow all the angles and have much more on the shutdown coming up in the newsroom at 2:00 pm eastern. fareed zakaria: gps continues right now. the world watched in horror as an upscale kenyan shopping mall became a war zone on a regular saturday afternoon, militants stormed nairobi's westgate shopping center,
spraying shops with bullets. dozens were killed, many more were injured. the group that claimed responsibility was an al qaeda offshoot al shabaab from somalia. i have a unique perspective on what happened. joining me now is the president of somalia. welcome. >> thank you. >> you're a human rights activist. within 48 hours of your becoming president, you survived an assassination attempt and there have been several more. were these all by al shabaab? >> yes, these were all by al shabaab. you see, what they do usually is always to try to stop any hope that's coming within the society so that they're the center of attraction will be move add way and they're seeing me as someone who is taking that center of attraction from society toward the state building and new
beginning of somalia which we initiated. >> people thought al shabaab, this movement, was losing ground in somalia, that the army with african forces had pushed them back and, in fact, there were kenyan forces in part of this. were we wrong? did we misunderstand the strength of al shabaab? >> no, you did not. and the world did not. al shabaab has lost the military front, but their nature is such a way that when they lost the military, they melted down into society and started from there, simply watching the people vulnerability and then they attack. >> what is its appeal? why does it grow? >> it's not a local agenda. shabaab's agenda is global, islamic state all over the world
not only somalia or north africa, but they're talking about -- they do not recognize somali state. they do not recognize borders or sovereign anything like that. it's not a local agenda. it only happened there because of the circumstances in somalia supported them to have a root and foot in somalia. >> just the poverty and -- >> poverty and on top of that, the most important one was lack of functioning state in place that controls the territory. >> why do they have some support? >> let me give you one little example. the boy that was 5 years old in 1990, today, is 28 years old. and most probably has a wife and kids and is one of those lost generations. frustrated, staying there. cannot offer opportunities to his kids. he becomes very vulnerable to al
shabaab. maybe at the end of the month he gets $80, so the bulk of the fors fighting for al shabaab are desperate boys. the top leadership are ideological motivated people who have been brainwashed either outside or inside somalia. the major source of al shabaab, recruiting locals does not mean they have support but the suppression of those young boys compared to into al shabaab are one major reason. >> you believe they are a threat to the world? >> of course. and they proved that they are a threat to the world. they claim what has happened today. many more times in parts of the world what happens happened. thr not a threat to somalia only, not to the region only but worldwide. the ideology is what is -- >> how are you handling this? how will you deal with this? >> the war against al shabaab is
in phases. the one we're coming to a close now is the military one, military control. that will be followed by repairing the ground for those defectors, working with the community leaders to call back those boys so that we're preparing for them rehabilitation, retraining so that they will have -- they can be even today in somalia there is employment opportunity. many of these are not employable because they lack skills. the government is working on that. and on top of that, a functioning state in place that controls the territory is prerequisite for member of al shabaab. without a state that controls the somalia territory, it would be difficult to defeat al shabaab. >> are you getting the kind of support from washington that you want? >> yes. i came here in the beginning of this year, met with president
obama and his secretary of state of that day, miss clinton and others. they promised that they would be supportive in somalia and they really delivered their promises. we come with a new momentum and new plans to the united states government and reactions have been very positive and very promising. >> best of luck. >> thank you. >> god knows you need it. >> thank you. thank you very much. it's a pleasure. up next, president of a country that shares a 500-mile border with syria.
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when it comes to syria, one country has been arguing for military action for a long time, turkey. it's a country which shares a 500-mile border with syria and has had to absorb an influx of half a million refugees from that country. some neighboring states accuse turkey of allowing jihadis of running rampant in. days of protest.
what started as a demonstration against plans to build a shopping mall in a parking lot grew to a much broader protest to tens of thousands. the government responded with force. i asked the president, did they go to far? you'll be fascinated by abdullah gul's answer. listen in to our conversation. mr. president, welcome. >> thank you. >> we have to start with syria. are you disappointed that president obama has chosen not to do some -- take some kind of military action in syria? your dpost has been urging military action for a long time. >> interaction is the last resort but we insist there should be political strategy first. >> but a lot of people look at
the policy, very tough against assad, urging that he leave. you have not been able to help create a real political opposition, unify the rebels, find the moderates that while for two years, this has been the effort, there isn't that much to show for it. >> yeah, well, i think i have to remain that at the beginning, we work hard to find out the peaceful solution for this. at least six months, work very hard. we visited several times. but unfortunately, there was no response. there was no real response that time. it's not the problem of turkey, first of all, but we are the neighbor. so what's happening in syria is having consequences that -- imminent consequences on turkey. therefore, turkey is very active in this issue. and this should not be misunderstood that turkey wish war or turkey wish to attack on
syria. no, that's not correct. what we want to see is that this situation should not continue like this. >> but you want assad gone? >> we want, want a very sound, well-calculated political solution for there. >> do you think that these current efforts to -- for assad to get rid of his chemical weapons, will they work? do you think there needs to be the threat of military force to implement these agreements? >> we should not fool ourself. is it really going to be real cleaning or not? if it is going to be real cleaning, that will be wonderful. that will be good for everyone. but if there's going to be give some time, at the end, still, there will be some chemical
weapons there, so that it would be a loss of time. >> i have a few questions on turkish politics. there are many people who say that turkey, istanbul, lost the bid for the olympics because of the way that the government used force in the protests, and that this was part of the -- you know, part of the mishandling that resulted in istanbul, which was the favorite, to lose the olympics to tokyo. >> i don't think so that was the only reason. >> the demonstrations? >> well, the demonstrations -- i mean, you see the demonstration in everywhere. you see it's not changing the life. you see, at the end of the demonstrations, you can see the same kind of demonstrations in london, in washington, in developed countries, so -- >> so as long as they don't use force against the demonstrations -- >> well, well, at the beginning, at the beginning, what we saw
there that -- that there were similar problems with the developed countries, where people were -- i mean, they were criticizing some projects and then that the government got the message at the end, you see. but later on, some radical groups hijacked this and definitely, i mean, the police has to protect the life of the others. there were some overreaction, our legal system is going through that. and those, they reacted, the they made a overreaction, they are going to be punished, definitely. >> mr. president, pleasure to have you on. >> thanks. up next, how to write a new constitution. the founding fathers would have loved this new online project. communities and local leaders to roll out a summer filled with activity. from atlanta to l.a., people all over
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menon, b, fidel castro, c, moammar gadhafi, or, d, u.s.'s own bill clinton. stay tuned, we'll tell you the answer. this week's book of the week is kenneth pollack's "unthinkable: iran, the bomb, and the american strategy." if you wonder how we should deal with iran and its nuclear program, this is the most careful, thoughtful, and intelligent book on the subject. i hope people in washington are reading it. now for the last look. egyptian lawmakers have announced that a final draft of their new constitution will be ready by november. that's actually quite quick. after all, you can't just google "how to write a constitution and get the answer. or, can you? google launched a new website called constitute this week with the comparative constitution project. the site is a digital archive of constitutions and other founding documents from more than 175 countries. one of its goals is to assist
countries like egypt that are emerging from political crisis to amend or replace their constitutions. there's more demand for this kind of thing than you would think. every year, approximately five new constitutions are written, and as many as 30 are amended or revised. more than 900 have been written since 1789. if you want to read all the constitutions in full, you can. but additionally, passages of each constitution have been tagged with a topic. interested in freedom of religion? looks like you have 167 choices. the right to bear arms, many fewer options. that's where america is exceptional. the correct answer to our gps challenge question was, a, india's envoy to the united nations, krishna menon. in 1967, he delivered the longest rambling diatribe ever at the u.n. before the security council. the speech defended india's position on kashmir and