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tv   The Lead With Jake Tapper  CNN  September 30, 2013 4:00pm-5:00pm EDT

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and the bell, and what will the next few hours bring. we will watch and wait. stay with us. we're all over it. "the lead" with jake tapper starts now. sorry to interrupt your conversation about the end of "breaking bad." the government is about eight hours from shutting down. i'm jake tapper. this is "the lead." the national lead. how would the looming shutdown affect you? well, it already is. the closing bell ringing on wall street after shutdown fears rattled the market and likely bit a chunk out of your 401(k). also, can you still get a passport? will your trash get picked up? what happens to the troops and their families and veterans? we run down what will stay open and what is quote, nonessential. and it has gotten downright nasty on both sides. this hour, we'll be joined by a republican and a democrat playing key roles in this debate.
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what will they say when we reveal new below the basement approval ratings for congress? good afternoon, everyone. welcome to "the lead." we'll begin of course with the national lead. we're coming to you live from capitol hill this afternoon. i hope you've been having a good monday, because it could be your last for awhile with a fully functioning government. i use the term functioning loosely, of course. a live look from the stock exchange where talk of a potential government shutdown at midnight unnerved the market. at the closing bell, the dow finished the day down 125 points. tomorrow, two things will happen within a span of hours. one, at 12:01 a.m. eastern, the government officially runs out of money to pay certain expenditures. two, at 8:00 a.m. eastern, people can start signing up for obama care through state-run exchanges. now, either one will be catastrophic depending on who you talk to. behind me at the capitol building, senate democrats just sent back a temporary spending bill to republicans after
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stripping out provisions the gop put in over the weekend, particularly one that delays obama care for a year. now republicans are preparing to respond with another vote but have very little time left before the midnight deadline. this kind of bickering is one of the things people hate about this town. we are releasing brand new poll numbers right now and the approval rating for congress is at an all-time low, just 10%. though that is still 10% above the approval ratings for, say, parking tickets and popup ads and skin rashes. congress has that going for it. it is still the lowest we have ever seen in a cnn poll in terms of the approval rating of congress. we are also releasing new approval poll numbers for president obama. they have remained mostly unchanged since june, dropping only a point to 44%. still, most americans, 53% disapprove of the way president obama is handling his job. overall, faith is pretty low in the officials who can get us out of this mess and there is very little time left. >> this law is not ready for prime time.
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>> house republicans are shutting down the government. >> and so it comes down to this. a partial government shutdown just under eight hours away as congress battles once again over obama care. >> obama care has been the law for four years. why don't they just talk about something else? >> yesterday, the republican controlled house voted to fund the government if democrats agreed to delay the health care law another year, as well as instituting other provisions republicans have not been able to pass, allowing employers to deny contraception coverage to employees. it goes against their beliefs, for example. the democrat controlled senate says no way, no how. they passed a clean government funding bill and say that's it. >> harry reid has conceded on nothing. he has said he refuses even to talk, he refuses to compromise, he refuses to budge. >> now the government lies in wait for the potential impact of this impasse, also known as a partial government shutdown. >> how dare you? how dare you?
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how dare you presume a failure? the fact is, the fact is this country is based on people saying they won't do things, and at the end of the day, coming together for compromise. >> of course it is, congressman issa, but to be fair, this congress has compromised so rarely that it's passed fewer than 40 bills in the past ten months, and even so, this wouldn't exactly be the first shutdown ever. >> past government shutdowns have disrupted the economy. this shutdown would, too. a shutdown would be a purely self-inflicted wound. >> but if congress fails to compromise before midnight tonight, about a quarter of government workers, the ones deemed nonessential, will have forced and potentially unpaid time off starting tomorrow. >> and we have liftoff. >> that means 97% of nasa employees will be out of the office tomorrow. but of course, if you're out of the atmosphere like astronauts, well, you'll be expected to continue working from the international space station. if your office looks more like
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this, you'll likely be furloughed. 368 national park service sites will lock their gates tuesday morning along with all national museums. not to worry, those charged with caring for animals like the national zoo's panda and her new cubs are deemed essential employees. they will be required to come in. panda cam, however, is not essential. it will go dark. if your office building has five sides, a pentagon, check with your boss. 1.3 million active duty military personnel are required to work during shutdowns but the department of defense also has 800,000 employees who are deemed nonessential. they will be furloughed without pay in the case of a shutdown. money will still be made, however. the treasury employees who physically churn out the nation's currency will be required to come in. and if your office building looks like this or like this, that money in the form of paychecks will continue to come in. that's right. the very people whose approval ratings are tanking as most
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americans conclude they're not competently doing their jobs, i mean of course our elected representatives, well, they'll be paid no matter how long the shutdown lasts. essential personnel indeed. you can bet this fight over obama care would look a whole lot different if mitt romney had won the election last year. not more civil, necessarily, but certainly a different dynamic. repealing obama care was a key part of romney's platform but when i sat down with him a few days ago, he disagreed with those in his party who have linked obama care to cutting -- to the spending bill. >> the tactic of using a government shutdown to try and push that will be counterproductive politically. it's going to end up hurting our party and it could well inconvenience and hurt individuals as well if checks are late and so forth. >> i want to bring in congressman tom price, republican from georgia. you heard mitt romney then, he's reflecting the view of a lot of republicans, including many in the senate who say this is going to hurt the republican party, the american people are going to blame you. >> i think that's not true.
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as a matter of fact, i think the american people will brush everybody with the same stroke. this isn't the way washington ought to work. the fact of the matter is, the president and his party and harry reid have refused to compromise on anything whatsoever. the republicans, if you think about it, have put forward a repeal bill, have put forward a defund bill, have put forward a delay bill. those are three different compromises, if you will, for the president's health care law that we believe to be destructive not only to quality health care, and it's a position i can tell you it's harming quality health care, it's harming the economy and is destructive to large and small business. >> why is it a compromise for the funding of the government to be allowed to go forward? why is that you conceding something? isn't that how this is supposed to work? >> the president has said himself, using his unilateral authority according to him, we believe some of it is overstretched to delay or defund fully a fourth of the law already. we think -- >> to delay it. delay the employer mandate. >> delay the caps, delay the --
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actually said you don't have to prove that you are eligible for a subsidy in order to get a subsidy. those are simply things that say his law isn't ready for prime time. we believe that in fact, what he ought to say is it's not ready for prime time for the american people, either, because again, it's destructive to quality health care and to the economy. we ought not stand idly by and have that go into effect. >> don't you think that you're stepping -- you want to have this discussion about obama care and i understand that, and that is certainly a discussion worth having. don't you think that you are ruining that message by instead there are all these veterans who aren't going to get benefits, all these people who work for the government who aren't going to be able to work and pay the bills for their families, the american people are going to look, whether they blame both the democrats and republicans or just the republicans, i guess we'll see, but we're not talking about obama care. we're talking about republicans and democrats and the government shutdown. >> jake, think about what the republicans in the house have done. they have passed multiple pieces of legislation to fund the entire government with the exception of a very small
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portion that the vast majority of the american people believe ought not go into effect. that's what the house republicans -- >> i don't know where you get -- i mean, the last poll i saw had 54% of the american people opposing obama care but 16% of them thought it wasn't liberal enough. so you can go back and forth on how many, the percentage of the american people opposed to it. let me ask you about a clean bill, because that's what the senate democrats are saying, give us a clean bill, just fund the government for a few months without any of this obama care stuff, without the defunding or delaying extraneous material. the speaker, john boehner, said no way, you guys aren't going to do that. aren't there enough votes, though, in the house to have a clean bill? >> i don't believe so. i think with the house of representatives, in representing their districts, is saying clearly we need to fund the entire federal government. there's no doubt about it. but we need to make certain that we modify at least minimally the law that the american people do not desire to go into effect. look, the president again has said to large business, you don't have to comply with this law for the next year. >> for a year. a year extension.
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>> we ought to say the same thing to every single american. if you're going to give it to business, it's only fair to give it to the american people. >> there is another new poll from cnn, 69% of americans say congressional republicans are acting like spoiled children. only one in four say they are acting like responsible adults. the numbers are not as bad for democrats or for president obama. doesn't that indicate that this is hurting your party? >> look, what's hurting our party, what's hurting our body politic, what's hurting the democracy that we have, is that individuals in this town refuse to get together and compromise. and the president has not come to the table to compromise. harry reid has not come to the table to compromise -- >> this is a government spending bill. this is funding the government just like the debt ceiling, as you know, this is about just america paying its bills. these aren't debates over health care or budgets coming in the future. these are separate issues. >> but jake, they are. 17 times since 1976, this piece of legislation, the spending bills for the american people,
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have had something tied to it that the other party wanted. 12 times under tip o'neill when he was speaker of the house. so the fact of the matter is, it is about things other than just spending. remember, spending out of this building behind us demonstrates the priorities of the american people, and so one of the priorities we ought to have is to make certain that people's health care isn't harmed, that the economy isn't harmed, that we're able to have small businesses create jobs, not become a part-time economy and a part-time america. that's what this bill is doing. >> so it's okay with you if the roles are completely reversed say in four years, as a republican president, a republican senate, and the democrats have the house and democrats say we're going to shut down the government unless you raise taxes on the wealthiest americans. i mean, you disagree with it but that's okay, that tactic is okay? >> that's not what we said. we want to fund the entire federal government with the exception of that portion that the american people don't believe is ready for prime time. we want to make certain that jobs are created. we don't want part-time jobs. we want full-time jobs. >> but i'm saying the tactic of
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saying you don't have the votes to do what you want to do with obama care in the senate -- >> i don't know that. >> you don't? >> no. i don't know that. >> you have 67 votes to delay or defund obama care. that's what you would need to override president obama's veto. >> you need 60. it's a dynamic process. i believe the president will wake up and say i guess i better represent the american people. the president himself has taken fully a third of his single piece of legislation and said it's not ready for prime time. he told employers don't worry about it, it's not anything you have to worry about. why not do the same thing for the american people. >> what do you say to critics who say house republicans act as if they were' in an alternative universe. you're trying to pass things that the president, who was reelected, opposes and that the democrats in the senate who have the majority oppose. >> 22 democrats in the united states house of representatives supported, voted for, a one-year delay of the individual mandate. 35 voted for a one year delay of the employer mandate. this is a bipartisan issue.
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>> that's the house. i just talked about the senate and the white house, though. >> 79 individuals in the united states senate voted for a medical device tax repeal earlier this year. the fact of the matter is harry reid won't let him vote, won't let them vote. he just tabled it. how dismissive is that of the normal process that ought to occur here, the normal give and take? the folks that won't compromise are the president of the united states, harry reid and mrs. pelosi. those are the folks that won't compromise. >> congressman price of georgia, thank you for coming in. we appreciate it. when we come back, the washington blame game continues as john boehner goes after the senate for taking a day off. how does democratic senator chuck schumer respond? i ask him next. plus, breaking bad ends its run and we're just getting word of how many millions tuned in for last night's series finale. let's just say, a lot of you caught up in time for the big finish. my customers can shop around--
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welcome back to "the lead." i'm jake tapper coming to you live from outside the united states senate, where the countdown the a partial government shutdown continues. with fewer than eight hours for the congress to come to a solution. just a short time ago the senate voted to reject the republican government funding bill which included a one year delay on a key part of obama care. it's now back to the house to decide the next move on how to fund the government and avoid a shutdown. it's just like hot potato but instead of a potato it's about
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800,000 employees facing losing their paychecks. new york democratic senator chuck schumer is one of those senators who voted to strip the bill of the anti-obama care provision. he's the third ranking democrat in the senate and he joins me here outside the capitol. senator, thanks so much for being here. >> good afternoon. beautiful day. >> it's a nice day. congressman tom price of georgia was here, republican. he said that an overwhelming majority of the senate earlier this year, including you, he didn't say that, i am, voted to get rid of the medical device tax. >> yes. >> which the latest provision of the house bill would also do. why not concede on that one point since it's already a bipartisan majority in the senate and get rid of this whole thing? >> well, because of the way it's being done. it's basically extortion. they basically send us a bill and say unless you do what we want, we're going to shut down the government. now, if we did it here on medical device tax or anything, then when we got to debt ceiling, these hard right wing people would say see, by holding
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out, we got what we wanted, let's move it up. and then when we got to funding the government for a full year in november, they would do it again. you cannot govern with a gun to your head. you cannot govern when somebody says i am going to hurt more than 800,000, millions of innocent people unless you do it exactly my way. so whatever they send us is not the point. the point is there's a time and place to debate things. i would love to debate the medical device tax. i think it should be changed. >> you voted to repeal it. >> but not to send it over and say unless you do what we want, because it had other things in that bill, too, such as delaying obama care, change in contraceptive laws which we debated, unless you do what we want, we are going to shut down the government, or not raise the debt ceiling. i have never seen anything like this. >> it has happened before. >> no. no. >> government shutdowns have happened before. >> but they never shut down
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where one side said unless i get my way, i'm going to shut down the government. there have been a bunch of them where they were debating an extraneous issue. abortion was one. they couldn't come to an agreement, they ran out of time so a day later, the government, but it wasn't saying unless you vote my way on abortion, each side could do it. unless you make abortion legal, i'll shut down the government. unless you make abortion illegal, i'll shut down the government. that is what's happening here. it would be as if president bush was president when we had the big crisis with lehman brothers and aig. nancy pelosi could have come to president bush of the opposite party and done just what boehner is doing, unless you get rid of your signature issue, the bush tax cuts, i'm not doing t.a.r.p. and i will let the nation suffer. she didn't. we didn't. we voted for t.a.r.p. because america needed it. it's the same exact analogy now. you don't say it's extortion. >> let me ask you a question.
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a lot of people, especially veterans i know are asking how come you and tom price, members of congress, how come you guys continue to be paid? how come you guys continue as essential personnel? >> look, the issue of what's constitutional is set by the constitution but the issue is not us. the issue is a million people who have to feed their children, who have to feed, they're innocent. why does tom price and the people like him say i am not going to feed you, i am not going to give you a paycheck, unless congress and the president does it my way on obama care. this is not government by democracy. this is government by bullying. i'm from brooklyn. you give up -- you give in to a bully once, they will ask for more and more and more. i know they feel very strongly obama care is terrible. they have debated it before. we can debate it again. they ran on the election saying repeal obama care. not a single democratic senator, they ran against every democratic senator on obama care, they lost the election.
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now they have a bludgeon. >> senator, first, i should point out there is breaking news that president obama is going to come to the briefing room at 4:45 to talk presumably about this. we will obviously be covering that live. senator, obviously there have been issues with obama care. you had the white house itself delaying the employer mandate for businesses. right? there are questions about the exchanges. >> there are issues -- >> there are questions about glitches in the technology. >> of course. >> what is -- >> we have a budget coming up. the place to debate it is on that budget. that's a logical place to debate it. it is not to say i will shut down the government or not renew the government's full faith and credit to hurt this country. millions of innocent people, unless i get my way. that is the basic point here. you can say they'll send over this. it doesn't matter what they send over. it's the methodology of what they're doing which is basically saying i have a baseball bat, i'm going to hit you over the
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head unless you give in my way. and you, it's not even hitting me over the head. it's hitting all those people who need their paychecks to pay their families. >> i want to play sound from speaker boehner talking about the u.s. senate and get your reaction. >> the senate decided not to work yesterday. well, my goodness. if there's such an emergency, where are they? it's time for the senate to listen to the american people just like the house has listened to the american people and to pass a one-year delay of obama care and a permanent repeal of the medical device tax. >> lots of republicans have been critical. the senate hasn't been in session. >> he just is trying -- what he's trying to do, he's shutting down the government. he knows it. the american people know it. everyone knows it. so he tries to wriggle his way out of it. the bills he sent us were meaningless. in the house right now, is a clean extension of funding the government. not with obama care in it, doesn't make it better, doesn't make it worse, doesn't change it. that is the only way to overcome
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the shutdown. so we could be here today, tomorrow, the next day. until the house passes that bill which by the way, the road to it was paved by a majority of both democrats and republicans. 25 republicans voted to allow that bill to go forward in the house and in the senate, including mitch mcconnell, who i must say is showing a lot more strength and courage than speaker boehner, even though mcconnell has a primary from the tea party. what is going on in congressman boehner's head? he knows shutting down the government is a bad thing. he knows that the right wing is bullying him. doesn't he know if he gives in this time, they will ask for more and more until they depose him? >> i have to take a break. thank you very much, senator chuck schumer. democrat of new york. we are waiting to hear from president obama in just a few minutes at 4:45 p.m. next, a runaway train collides with another one full of rush hour commuters and police are asking how the park train got
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welcome back to "the lead." we're now awaiting remarks from president obama live at 4:45 p.m. eastern. you can see them right here live on "the lead." we have been waiting to see if congress will pull an 11th hour rabbit out of its hat to avoid a government shutdown. more on that in a moment. first, other top stories. chicago investigators have a head-scratcher on their hands. how in the world did an empty train end up taking off on a rail line and slamming into another train that was carrying dozens of passengers? at least 48 people were hurt in the crash but no one suffered serious injuries, thankfully. investigators are looking into whether someone climbed aboard the empty train and set it rolling on the tracks. but they have yet to find any evidence of that so far. the empty train had been parked in a service yard for repairs. the national transportation safety board plans to investigate. in the world lead, there have been plenty of skeptics regarding iran's sudden kinder, gentler approach to the u.s., courtesy of new president hassan rouhani, but none more leery
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than israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. the israeli leader met with president obama today and urged the president not to fall for iran's sweet talk. netanyahu wants to keep sanctions against iran in place until the country's nuclear program is completely wiped out. the president once again pledged u.s. loyalty to israel and said military options remain on the table if iran's nuclear program is not shut down. the meeting comes days after president obama's historic phone call with president rouhani. the first call between a u.s. president and iranian leader in four decades. we will have the president live. when we come down, shutdown showdown, an update on the negotiations going on behind closed doors. plus, the political winners and losers. who will bear the brunt of it politically if the government shuts down? ss run ♪ ♪ trains! they haul everything, safely and on time. ♪ tracks! they connect the factories built along the lines. and that means jobs, lots of people, making lots and lots of things. let's get your business rolling now, everybody sing.
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welcome back to "the lead." we're awaiting live remarks from president obama in a little more than ten minutes. we'll bring it to you live. as we speak, the house is preparing to vote yet again on a bill to continue funding the government but only if the individual mandate, the requirement that individuals buy insurance, is removed from obama care. so far, senate democrats have rejected each spending bill that would tweak obama care in any way and if the two chambers
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can't pass something, the government will shut down in just a little over seven hours. i want to get to our chief congressional correspondent, dana bash, here at the capitol. you have been speaking to some of the key players here. what is the latest in this incredible story? >> reporter: the latest is it looks much more likely that the government will shut down even for a short period of time. the only thing, according to senate democrats who say that they're standing their ground, clean spending bill or nothing. the only thing that will keep it from shutting down is that, and in just talking quietly to sources in the halls here, it just seems unlikely for john boehner and his fellow republican leaders, even assuming that their latest bid is rejected, to take up that clean no strings attached bill before the clock strikes midnight tonight and the government shutdown officially happens. it just seems as though they are going to need to feel like conservatives kind of got their wish because make no mistake, despite what they say publicly,
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there are a number of conservatives, even elected officials in the house, who think that a government shutdown would be a good thing in terms of sending a message that they mean it when they say that they really want to do whatever is possible to change or chip away at obama care. that's where things stand now. we will certainly be here until midnight but unless something dramatic changes, it doesn't look like things are going to move to funding the government by that deadline. >> then where do we go from here? theoretically if that happens, and it doesn't seem as though there are any major conversations going on between the white house and boehner or the house and the senate, if that does happen, and the senate is insisting clean bill, nothing attached to it, just funding the government, and the house is saying no, then what? >> reporter: you know, i had a senior republican source say to me over the weekend that they sort of feel like they're going to have to let some of their more conservative, more vocal members who say fight, fight,
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fight, touch the stove enough times to realize that they are going to get burned. the then what is really up in the air, because probably it's going to depend what happens with the markets. it's going to depend with their response is from the public, and maybe more importantly, from the economy, if in fact the government does shut down as it seems like it is heading that way. then they're going to reassess, say maybe john boehner will call his people together tomorrow or wednesday and say okay, guys, are we ready, enough, already, let's do this and fight the next fight which of course is just around the corner on the debt ceiling, which could have even more catastrophic effects on the economy. >> dana bash, thank you so much. a little more than seven hours away, we are right now from a shutdown, partial government shutdown. house republicans are trying to scrape together a plan to cancel the government's unscheduled vacation. in the meantime, the gop circular firing squad seems to have borrowed walter white's m-60 and are targeting the ted cruz wing of the party right
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now. this morning in the "american conservative," the push to defund or merely delay the implementation of obama care is maybe the most moronic and counterproductive gambit yet devised by the fire-breathing right flank of the gop. joining me now to talk about all this, cnn chief political analyst gloria borger, cnn political contributor and former advisor to mitt romney, kevin madden and president of the center for american progress and former domestic policy director for president obama's 2008 campaign, nira tanden. your former boss, mitt romney, made very clear he didn't think this was a good tactic and it would hurt republicans. is it going to have to be that republicans get hurt, that the poll numbers, i mean, i don't know how much farther down you can go from 10% approval rating for congress which is what the new cnn poll shows. what has to happen for people to realize that maybe this isn't the best way to change or even get rid of obama care? >> look, that's the conventional
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wisdom on that is that there is going to be a risk here for republicans, that the blame's going to be shifted on us. i don't think, though, i think there's too much value put in the argument that somehow democrats and the president have a lot to gain here politically. if you look at a lot of the numbers, this is essentially the american people looking at washington and seeing this dysfunctional entity and they will blame all parties involved. i think for the folks, having worked in this building, right now i think that's what's going to happen. we will see volleying back and forth. so much of the discussion focused on process, using terms like crs, like the american people know what that means and how that affects them in their daily lives. so much of that will be the pressure building once the government does shut down and whether or not you go from having 175 votes for a clean cr to having over 218 that you are going to need to get the government start moving again. >> i will say one thing about this. i know you probably blame the house republicans entirely for this.
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a liberal democrat i know who has never had a poor word to say about president obama ever, obviously this is anecdotal but over the weekend said to me blamed it all on the house republicans but said i really wish president obama liked dealing with congress more, he's not the kind of guy who likes to do deals, he's not a schmoozer. i'm not saying it's his fault. i understand this is a complicated situation but i think kevin's right, this hurts everybody at the end of the day. >> i definitely think it hurts everybody. it will definitely hurt republicans a lot more, because i think what people are seeing is that there's one side that's really intransigent. i have to say, what we've seen in the actual negotiations or debate about this, because we haven't had negotiations, is every time we get to a moment like this, republicans need more and more scalps. i think being in negotiations with them means they need more and more scalps from democrats. i think that's the problem we're seeing right now, is that we have -- democrats don't even like this clean cr.
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it actually assumes the republican numbers on the budget. >> they're lower numbers. >> they're lower numbers, but they are going along with this because they actually believe in doing their job which is governing. >> here's the real problem for republicans. yes, their poll numbers are going to suffer. they had a pretty clean message to sell on obama care, which is that it's bad and it has a lot of problems, and tomorrow is the official enrollment date. if they wanted to carry a message, they could say oh, guess what, it's been delayed for small businesses, oh, guess what, it's not clear in every state what you're going to do, you know. oh, guess what, on and on and on about, you know, corporations are allowed to delay but not individuals. so you guys, not saying -- >> quit blaming me. >> i know, sorry about that. generically, republicans, could have made the case on this date about how the law they don't
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like is bad and how they would actually intend to fix it. instead, we're talking about shutting down the government. >> to that point real quickly, it remains to be seen. i think the short-term, there's understanding that there's risk but long term, when people are making a judgment in 2014, november 2014, will all of what happened with obama care and how it changed people's health care, that and the taxes, the regulations, the spending, will that impact. >> we have to take a quick break. you guys stick around. we will take a very quick break. president obama scheduled to speak at 4:45. we are waiting for him to make those remarks. we'll go live to the briefing room. we'll be right back.
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any minute now, president obama will make a statement from the white house about the government shutdown that could happen in almost seven hours. you will see it live right here on "the lead." stick around.
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welcome back to "the lead." we're awaiting remarks from president obama about the possible partial government shutdown that would come in less than seven hours. the shutdown itself. we're expecting president obama any minute. let's go to jim acosta.
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he's there. jim, have aides briefed you on what he's going to say or are you anticipating based on following the story that he's going to criticize republicans? >> reporter: we expect that, jake. earlier today, the president was in a meeting as you know with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and at that meeting, the president said he was not resigned to the prospect of a government shutdown. he thought there was still some hope. that was before house speaker john boehner said that the house at this point is going to send something back to the senate that has some of these anti-obama care provisions in it. that is obviously a nonstarter in the senate. the president has said repeatedly and the administration has said repeatedly that is a nonstarter for them as well. so i think we will hear the president repeat that once again. i think something else that we'll also hear, we heard the president say this earlier today, we also heard white house press secretary jay carney say this at the podium at the briefing earlier today, talking about some of the people who will be hurt by all of this. jay carney talked about the meals on wheels program, call
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centers for veterans who call in about their benefits, the president talked about women and children being hurt. i think that's probably some of what we'll hear from the president in just a few moments. obviously we can't predict what he's going to say entirely, but i would say at this point that yes, blaming the republicans is very much on the agenda in the next few moments. >> we'll tune in for more of that in a minute. jim acosta, thank you so much. we'll go back to the white house when president obama comes in. let's bring back our panel. gloria borger, kevin madden and neera tanden. neera, why not, in order just to break through the impasse, allow the medical device tax, removing that tax, which the senate overwhelmingly voted to do, like 70 or something votes. the house voted to do. why not just do that? it's already there, it's already, the support for it's already there. why not just end the whole thing? >> there's no evidence that passing a medical device tax will -- >> no, getting rid of -- >> getting rid of, that's what i
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mean, passing new legislation on the medical device tax to get rid of it would have any impact. what the republicans keep demonstrating they want is to drive a stake through the heart of the affordable care act, what we all call obama care, because they don't want to see it work. what i would say to all my colleagues and friends on the other side is again, we had an election on this. kevin supported someone who campaigned very actively against obama care. >> you can say his name. mitt romney. >> mitt romney. and you know, and schumer, senator schumer is right about this. senate democrats were attacked on this and they still won, in fact, expanded their majority. this is not what the american people want. they do not want to shut the government down over obama care and litigating this is litigating this for a far right base and the house should work its will. let's just have a bill on the cr go up and it would pass. it would pass tonight. >> kevin, senator john mccain raised this issue that neera just did. there was an election on this,
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mitt romney was against obama care, mitt romney did not win. former senator jim demint, now with the heritage foundation, was asked this and said that romney, that that wasn't really true, because romney was a flawed carrier of the anti-obama care mantle. >> i think he was a great carrier. >> because obviously, he passed romney care which was the model for obama care. i don't want to relitigate those, obviously there are differences, but do you buy that? were people not thinking this guy's going to repeal obama care when they voted for romney? >> i don't think one election is run on a single issue. they had their view they presented to the american public and we had ours. there was an election and it worked out obama was reelected but that doesn't change the fact that the house of representatives, that majority was also reeje-elere-elected. they were sent here because people had problems with spending, taxes and regulations and job losses that are occurring because of obama care. it's their duty they believe to
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take the frustrations and anxieties to washington and litigate it. here's the other thing. all the talk of bullies and scalps and everything like that, these are substantive disagreements that legislators are bringing to the white house and to their colleagues in the senate, and they have a difference of opinion. in many of these cases, they are actually the line with voter sentiment when it comes to the ills of obama care. >> i think you're being a little idealistic about some of the motives of republicans, because here's what i'm -- when you talk to some of these republicans on background, not for quoting, they will say to you you know what, we have been pushed into a corner here because some of these political action committees run by peopl like jim demint are campaigning against obama care and we're afraid we are going to be challenged on the right in our districts by people who are saying we're not -- >> a lot of it has to do with taxes. the overall message they are trying to get across about what obama care is doing to our economy is substantive.
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>> but we're not hearing that message. that's where they seem to be stepping on themselves. we're just hearing okay, we're willing to do this, to shut the government down but the argument should be over the substance of the president's health care plan and the budget, and how much it's going to cost, particularly if they want to make this argument on the debt ceiling. >> real quick, i would agree with you on that. i do think that once we get past the tactical fight, there is still a great deal of opportunity there for republicans to be the voice of people, to serve as the voice for people who don't like -- >> i would agree with that. >> what i would say is the issue really here is we litigated obama care. i think you can pass your 45th, 50th, 57th vote against obama care. you shouldn't hold the budget hostage. i think that's what gloria is saying. i think also -- >> once something goes in, that's it. >> what's the difference? >> the constitution is a process. we are in the process of this.
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>> what americans are rejecting is the idea that you are going to hold food for women, infants and children, the parks, hostage to obama care. should we shut down the government over obama care? an overwhelming majority of americans say no. the majority in the house of representatives does not represent the majority of americans. >> we want to go to the redistricting fights on the state level, we can do that. >> you can't choose which parts of democracy you want. >> exactly. that's why i'm saying i don't think democrats should use these tactics. >> if they worked to -- [ speaking simultaneously ] >> this is risky for you guys with your base. a majority of republicans believe that it's okay. it's not really a risk for your base. if you want to be a congressional majority. if you want to become a presidential majority, then it's risky. >> there is a large swath of the
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american electorate, including republicans and many centrist conservative democrats who disagree with obama care, who are unhappy with the effect that it's having -- >> they have been asked about this particular strategy and said no. >> and very upset with the spending taxes and regulations that are making health care less patient-centric. >> you know, we are going to have this law go into effect tomorrow. i think it will have the same effect it had in massachusetts, which had higher growth. you actually addressed the problem. let's give -- >> massachusetts was that a federal or state standard for a small population of seven million people, or a federal statute set for 330 million? >> it's not 330 million. >> remove ourselves from the commonwealth of massachusetts for awhile. the point she is making about redistricting, which is a point i hear a lot from liberals which is if you look at how many people voted for democrats in the congressional elections and house elections, it's more than a million and a half people more
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than voted for republicans and this all has to do with redistricting. if you look at my great state of pennsylvania, which was a state that obama won, it's something like 12 republicans for 5 democrats because of redistricting. that's a fine argument, doesn't mean anything because anybody can redistrict any way they want. all you have to do is win those legislatures and you will admit that the obama campaign probably didn't pay as much attention to the legislatures as they should have. >> i totally agree. >> the reason we have this problem is there is no reward in politics anymore for compromise. there is only reward -- >> when did that happen? >> because of the primary system we have. gloria's point is -- >> the congressional primaries or the presidential? >> because these are jer jerrymanderred districts, people are more concerned about their primaries and that's what's driving this debate today. the house is not reflecting the will of the majority of americans.
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>> that means that -- just talking about the house, not the senate. i understand how it works. >> sorry. >> just to explain to the viewers. that means also that the house seats are more liberal, that there are fewer blue dog democrats so it's more left and more right. >> this is a perfect example. nancy pelosi today said she would provide votes for a clean cr which is -- >> a clean spending bill for the government. >> just to translate, yes, clean spending bill for the government -- >> even at the lower level of spending that the republicans like. >> which is much closer to where the republican members are. she's coming all the way over to where republicans are. she is willing to do that because she recognizes that they have a job to do in governing and this is a compromise. >> the president does not want the government to shut down on this. >> former senator gregg from new hampshire, former chairman of the senate budget committee, said today he thinks this
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problem is because there are a number of republicans who don't understand, i'm paraphrasing here, who don't understand the process of governing. i think what he was suggesting is there is a reluctance to compromise in order to get things done and have the government basically function. is that not fair? >> i think it is a fair observation. i think that it's not applied on just one party or the other. i think there are calcified polls on each side of the party that aren't willing to compromise. i think one of the bigger problems that we have is that so many members now, because of the way some of these districts are drawn, there is no incentive to go home, vote yes and explain to their constituents what they just did. it's so much easier to vote no and go home and explain a no vote. >> we have bipartisanship in the senate. i do think there has been bipartisanship in the senate over what to do. >> in talking to a conservative republican who is against obama care and willing to shut down the government, an office holder
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said to me look, people, we talked about sequester and the sky was falling and all the rest, and the sky didn't fall. we talk about a government shutdown and guess what? the sky's not going to fall. i would argue he might be right on that point. the bigger point is the more potent political argument republicans have over the budget is actually on the next fight which will be the debt ceiling, and that would be the more catastrophic economically, where the sky might fall. so they can make this fight but what are they going to do on the next one? >> gloria brings up a good point. when you talk to a lot of these folks, these conservatives, these 50 or so conservatives in the house, they will tell you that the last thing they want to do is be part of anything that resembles the status quo here in washington. and that for years, we have done things the way that everybody wanted them to be and we kept
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the government open but it kept continuing to grow, grow to the point where it was too big. so many of them do want to sort of send a message. i think they want to send a message to the republican leadership which is that we have a much more important say in this process than you're letting us, than you are letting on, but they also want to send a message about what a government shutdown would do. it may not -- the sky may not fall. >> we can all agree here that a government shutdown for a day or two is undesirable but far preferable to anything happening with the debt ceiling. that could be catastrophic for the markets or people's retirement savings. >> house republicans feel they have more leverage on that particular issue because again, that's an issue where, when people look at washington, they are tired of debt and deficits and they see that issue as related to that and they do want some sort of either spending or economic reforms as part of that broader discussion. rather than just going about things the same way we always did. >> last thought. >> then why do we have this debate on the government

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