tv U.S. Senate CSPAN January 7, 2010 5:00pm-6:47pm EST
a new book examines how developing nations resolve the water conflicts. this hour and 50 minute event was held at the wilson international center for scholars in washington. [inaudible conversations] >> good afternoon, i want to welcome you, my name is jeff and i have the fortune and privilege today to welcome you to the center as director of a rental change in security program. a program that tried to grapple with the very issues we're looking at today, water conflicts and in the broader context to developments health and a foreign-policy and security policy context so obviously this really a tremendous effort to buy catholic relief service to wrap their arms around what you will see is a highly complex set of
issues around water conflicts but also incorporating peace building into water development, not just a threat that the opportunity to respond. let me say a word about the wilson center as a welcome, there are new faces in the room and apologies we had a tremendous response of those in the overflow room and our apologies but the inside will be justice in scintillating absurd and from there as well. the wilson center is the fourth memorial to woodrow wilson soda instead of building an obelisk on the mall we are a living memorial for the scholarship and policy come together, wilson was on a president to have a ph.d. and an honors both of his legacy is as dollar and politician. we're fortunate to have former congressman lee hamilton as our president and director. so on a non-partisan and advocacy basis we bring groups together like the one we have in the room today, the ones that we have a watching online and the ones we have watching certainly on c-span. this is an opportunity to share
these insights because as i said i think catholic relief service has done a tremendous service by trying to take a stab at wrapping their arms around an enormous top bank and doing both problem identification but also ways forward and proactive voice for for a humanitarian organization, one that i think will have real impact that goes beyond just given organization. so what i'm going to do is turn the floor to dennis warner with catholic relief service, he's going to kick us off and walk us through the program. dennis, please, the floor is >> thank you and good afternoon. i am dennis warner, the senior advisor for catholic relief service. let me just and i will be the moderator for this meeting today. let me start off by saying there are people that don't have seats in the them there is a room one floor down at this end of the circular walkway with a video
feed where you can sit and watch and hear the panel and perhaps a bit more covered but it's your choice. at this point i would like to ask kenneth hackett, the president of catholic relief service, to make some remarks to you. one is the head of an organization which is one of the largest humanitarian relief and development organizations in the world. he oversees activities in 100 countries want with a staff of approaching 5,000 people. he became president in 1993 and has been with us since then. >> thank you very much, dennis, and thank you to the wilson center. this is an honor and pleasure. it's a great turnout here today and i want to start by recognizing one of our board members for coming over and and
being with us. that is support from the top. this morning where this afternoon this conversation on the water and conflict i think is going to be most interesting. the i don't consider myself in any way expert in the topics so what you do if you're not an expert soluble it to. i google the water and conflict and i came across something from the pacific institute which may be many of you know already but it was the water conflicts chronology and it lists hundreds with other events of conflicts related to water. from big things like a river in china and conflict there to smaller things like conflict around somewhere else in eastern ethiopia. local spats to. there is a lot of a study that has gone into that.
in our own work at catholic relief service we've come to realize that interventions related to portable water or water for irrigation or even fishing when i lived in the philippines in the lagoon near manila it's all divided up, many of you have probably seen it, on little plots the become very contentious and that's where you put you're which traps of beer account and as water becomes more scarce it's conceivable that these conflicts will increase in the years ahead. and my personal experience 40 something years ago as a peace corps volunteer in data digging wells i can tell you and many of you already know i did that in a world community the issue of where the well is becomes a passionate item. particularly for the women who have to go the distance to carry the water we believe that greater efforts must be made to
understand the causes of such conflicts. conference related to water as to prevent his disagreements from escalating into violence. i was in jest that for whom they accuse mitterrand and development communities and other actors who are in intervening of water programs weather had engineering firm or whatever, we have to focus greater attention, apply a better knowledge some, more analysis to identify emerging disagreements and then the figure out ways to mitigate them before they explode in. water disputes that can start at the local levels, small little things have the potential in extreme cases to burgeon into something much bigger. and i don't have to tell you where those examples are. at the catholic relief service who have come to realize that we must in a pro-active way to
incorporate peace building methodologies. in our water and sanitation work. initiatives involving water must always some we realize now be conflict sensitive. some quick guidelines for such an approach are included in this new publication that you can pick up outside "water and conflict". which you will hear more about this morning or this afternoon. a id help this been with us in some of the cost but we put together with a bunch of collaborators and catholic relief service. so i'm delighted to be here today for what should be a very stimulating discussion. with a panel that includes leading voices from the office of conflict mitigation, from georgetown university program on conflict resolution and, of course, the winter wilson center and its staff. thank you and welcome to all of you. [applause]
>> thank you, canada. the process we will follow here is i'm going to introduce the three panelists to you. they will give their remarks from a 15 minutes each at least. gentleman. because of want to have questions and comments from, the audience, so be thinking about things that are relevant to the topic we are dealing with today. the first speaker will be jason gehrig who is water engineer working with the terror to regional water district in fort worth, texas. jason served eight years with lay missionaries as an engineering adviser to the bolivian ngo. he has sorts closely with the indigenous peoples of the andes focusing on issues ranging from the implementation of a rural and semi urban committed to water and sanitation projects to
challenging the opposed privatization of urban water services. jason is the lead author of the document that was available outside, "water and conflict" incorporating peace building into water development. the second speaker will be william hall who is an adjunct professor of in the conflict resolution program at georgetown university. his teaching and research interests include the dynamics of a rental negotiation, and the of our mental and economic results of environmental conflict of resolution. he also serves as a staff facilitator and mediator for the u.s. environmental protection agency is a conflict prevention and resolution center. our third speaker who will be tjip walker who leads to the warning and analysis team in the
office of conflict management and litigation at the u.s. agency for international development. in this capacity he coordinates the cnn leadership on a range of conflict of related issues including early warning, assessments, training, and monitoring and evaluation. he also serves as u.s. aid to lead on a fragile states. in that capacity he recently had a multi-year multi donor collaboration sponsored by the oecd for agile states group which focused on improving service delivery in fragile states. with that i will ask jason gehrig to give you his presentation of.
>> good afternoon. it's a pleasure to be with you here today. my name is jason gehrig, today is this special day for me, exactly 10 years ago today my wife and i landed in bolivia one of the world's highest cities. that's where we pursued to make our lives of their in the impoverished city for the next seven and half years. the focus of my talk is going to be an overview of this book that i had the opportunity to write with many good people from crs and others. i will go ahead and go through a two-story some of my own experience with water and sanitation work in the bolivian andes. at think it's important to give a quick overview of the context of bolivia over the last decade. it's been living through tremendous historical time in which the majority of indigenous being able to achieve power and as you can imagine and this hasn't come easily. it wasn't unusual at all to find highways being blockaded for three or four weeks of the time. generally peaceful but often met
with tremendous brutality by forces of order. two of those were induced by water related issues, another of the gas war in 2003, 60 of our fellow residents were murdered in cold blood. i bring this up because we are able to continue with one development efforts despite that and peace corps volunteers pullout in 2002. i bring that up as well because it made me as an engineer realize we can't just be looking at developments without looking at the structural issues. the next topic, first of all, allied to think some key people. obviously crs. they gave it me free rein on this book, no topic was taboo. obviously with water and, if there are tremendous interests
at play and so because of bad there's integrity with this book speaking of truth and i think makes it a valuable resource. why would i like to think for a ton a. half their academic resources and the time i was able to read this book. the missionaries to me the opportunity to be with the floor. they trained us and challenge us to remember that not so much what we accomplish but how we accomplish it being essential. finally, my wife, what i like to consider my. have sabbatical when i wrote the story, she was working teaching 900 kids a week spanish in three different schools in the bronx so without these people and it wouldn't have been possible. the first part of the book is a background. it is intended to serve the development community coming human-rights advocates who so often are called to be wearing some a different hats from what branch writing to community
organizing and technical grosso its intent what we did was brought together so wonderful research and academics institutions and development agencies and tried to make it more accessible in one location. we address how this issue of the poverty and lack of access, that any water and sanitation effort will be addressing. also as kenneth mention, increasing water scarcity that we're likely going to be a catalyst for increase violence on a local level. but it gets into the various underlying causes of water conflict, multiple and what i will do at this point is go into one of them that we lived through. shortly after arriving in bolivia where% to learn spanish. i couldn't even say the word agua. they didn't take much to realize that these people whom were mad as hell that their water
services have been privatized. upon many of the neighborhoods served by corporatist the irrigators who in the past have access to water also said it will pay for access to the our core for. again and keep profit of 13 or 16%, wouldn't that be nice to have that kind of guarantee for us. that was surely live within 16 months of all parties. in 2005 we've lived a similar revolt and again the water services privatized and the people after eight years -- i was living there on the oscars and people making $2 a day and never expected to pay $450 a day for water connection and the sec plans of nine months' pay. as you can imagine it wasn't as poor as the studies claimed. the next part of the book gives
us a basis if we're serious about wanting to promote peace building in the water sanitation deal, there are some turning efforts on the international level, the move toward promoting water is a human rights and access, the wisdom of indigenous people. they considered a water mother earth. and so why did it make any sense to choke this have taken this water which is so key to their whole understanding of relationship with the natural world and for someone to make a profit off of it. tender and water issues -- huckabee that have of humanity whose lives are so interconnected and so systematically lingua removed from any decision making related to its. also today is wonderful to see from various faith traditions of the contributions coming from the catholic background social
teaching that's out there. well as the book progresses then and before we start to thinking we're going to fix other people's problems we need to be in touch with our own issues and motivations. personal organizational. we need to be that which we approached and strive to promote for others. there are many challenges like myself as an engineer to look beyond this. i can tell you how exciting it was to build the tanks into the water flowing out of the taps. but then i quickly realized the technical dimensions are not all that complicated. it was socialized and then with time i realize we shouldn't look at as just another obstacle to overcome to make a successful project rather through the social organizing we can be building the social infrastructure, strengthening the existing networks that can handle future conflicts on a local level. the picks story, when i was put
in touch with some good people when we first arrived and this was the municipality on the border in a remote area in those contests with a water superintendent in in a year's time we are able to install half a dozen community systems and we learned as we went making sure that we secured the issue of water supply source before we began the survey. making sure that the committed to member sacrifice and provide the manual labor, there we had them play a half months worth of materials play so when it was done it was in a handout, it was a true effort amongst partners. unfortunately what happened and was a political maneuvering after a year there was a power play. this jurisdiction involved 138 villages and have began to support the mayor. when i was going out there where water superintendent was out already in villages lobbying on
behalf of the current mayor and came to have personally when one time the architect took me out to one of the larger communities that didn't have a hot water. he had me look around for the water and it was no follow-up. when it came to realize that is the mayor was in the message to the people that if you want the white man with the money you came in power. that crossed the line for may. this idea of being used. i bring this up not just as a rookie mistake but because this is a dilemma that the international committee faces so often the funds we bring to come with strings attached whether political agenda or economic interests at play. the local areas with a homegrown corruption issues that play as well. so we've got to have our core values and play if we're going to navigate that correctly. in the wake of that gas for,
there were putting forth, there are proud of the facts never able to come down the situation. what happens to listening to the ballot demands of the people? were looking at the legitimate causes to lead the blockades and the first place parents and. is that peace building? i think if we ask the poor who were supposedly serving they would tell you now. as luther king centerpiece is not merely the absence of tension, it's the presence of justice. we will -- the book then a provide someone a break in want giving some direction how we want to orient our peace building and water efforts of looking at the suggested issues and promoting relationship building in areas where there is historical tension among peoples and institutional the balance. i don't think we can promote local decision making enough and
then have been willing to step back and let them flourish. we have been touching a little on their appropriate development approach as well. following that i was put in touch with a group of young modest speaking waterworks specialists. 11 we were able to do with the funders was going to the local municipalities because it was key that the local governments participated their responsibility and using the outside funding that is leveraged sank put your funds in place and we will bring in iras. removing chatsworth way to prevent conflict inducing process. we were able to do that successfully and when they weren't willing to work want to do that we began a time to mature were basically tell the villagers would love to help you but to elected officials are ready to do things right now we move to another business apology always letting out a thick and put the pressure on officials to
think otherwise an unprecedented and we would come back. so just one example of how water development can address various issues were led to conflict. the second section of the book was prepared by mark rogers. geared for folks who were intentionally going to aires for existing water conflict exists in using the transformation tools and techniques to help guide the process. i say it's for those intent on going into any who hovered in the film though almost any water effort will have a conflict. i had an international bicycling and then canceled because a water system i was working on i can tell you numerous stories but the complex flareup with water development but i will say that for another day i suppose. finally the book gets into concrete action steps. dennis was telling me we're engineers. the peace building, we need things to be tangible, concrete
that we can really enact so it looked as some of the more typical examples of water, put out there. quantity and quality of water issues, the issue of mine and i will touch on that in a second, water sanitation news and refugees. i bring this issue of mining because this is a life-and-death issue. in el salvador three community leaders were assassinated in the last half. their crime of was someone to demand ecological sustainability for the mining operation and to ban it out right. in this case it was pacific williams mine in sells out the door. this young woman here killed two weeks ago, eight months pregnant, coming back from the river having done her laundry shot in cold blood. if we're serious about peace building and water we need to be at the side of these people.
demanding that things be ecological sustainable. i was asked to suggest additional areas for further study beyond what we touched on this book and i think some more concrete water scenarios in the african nation conference will be worth it. reading the size of the time with the war zones and on stage actress in development efforts trying to -- what can be done there, what is working. my hat's off to those who are trying. this issue of water contamination, as we continue to make headway in getting more access to safe water, we need to look at the issue of how do we continue to make water a to a renewable resource and that's going to involve contamination issues. is going to be expensive technically challenging but necessary. and then again the other success stories. what is working out there? not grand schemes from here but but the center of power but from
the edges. to conclude basically wanted to be builders of peace we need to be able to listen and winning over hearts and minds not necessarily the people we serve hot but on. and we can do that by getting close to the people. so that their struggle for life for human dignity and for peace becomes are on. thank you very much. [applause] >> mw
>> happy new year, everyone. i suppose it's not too far into the new year i can still say that. the very happy to be here, my name is william hall representing george and university, adjunct faculty in the conflict resolution program. i want to think catholic relief services for inviting me to be here today. and also the wilson center for sponsoring what i think is an important panel the discussion. i'm mindful i am wearing three other hats in addition to my georgetown had today. as was mentioned i work for the environmental protection agency and they're supportive but i do need to say that anything i say is not going to be reflective necessarily of the agency. by second additional had
submitted, not quite so long ago, 20 years ago in condos i year at the time. and so this topic does resonate with me as a water develop and practitioner. from that time. i remember very well of the women and children climbing long distances of pills usually to get water from the unkept springs and bathing in water that i captured off my roof in a 55-gallon drum and i hesitate to think about what might have been used for before i was using for bathing water. but at the portly i come here today has a human being who is deeply concerned about the state of san berman on our planet and the consequences for a lot of the people, fellow travelers. so that's what i think this discussion is a good step toward in dealing with those kinds of issues. reviewing the water in conflict document prompted ideas for me, i will share a few of those with you in general and then tell
them to specific questions that resonated with me as i was blowing through the documents but first why didn't i have access to something like this when i was out there in the developing world working. i think it has a lot of value. it's very accessible. i think people and a number of the audience will be able to understand and appreciate the content, ngos, community leaders, the valve and workers, the government agencies. i think they can find something important there. it is very activist and passionate and i think that's important given the gravity of the situations we are facing on water and complex. i appreciated the specific examples that were offered. they were concrete and very detailed and bring to life i think the principles and practices advocated. three specific things i wanted to mention highlight as important, the value of in-depth for to support a social context analysis. getting people involved in analyzing the situation that
they're facing, it's critically important. involving stakeholders' including those marginalized and may not obvious on the face of it. and the use of a neutral party use where appropriate, these people trade by different names but can be very helpful as i will mention and some of my other remarks. my last comment is about the breadth of the territory that the publication covers, it's very broad and rather than being a witness i think this is a strength because this is a multifaceted area that we are involved in dealing with water issues. it's a reflection of a wide range of challenges that we face. ..
i'll refer to a few select research and evaluation of first. these are not without caveats, all research of caveats or showed it not just offer them for your consideration. the first question i'd like to addresses when is a situation situation ripe for ecr? when is the right response at a particular moment? there's a lot of answers to this. one i found particularly helpful is the work by ida uncurled was a quaker and a scottish peacemaker. it actually highlighted this particular graphic and all do share a little bit with you about it. essentially suggest the conflict is a dynamic situation.
it has progression we hope from a situation where power is unbalanced, awareness of the conflict is close to a fiction under situation that is the standard of peace. not always a path to get there. at first people may not know that they're in a situation of structural violence, things of that sort. they're just not aware and awareness seems to be raised to four people can even be aware it. the neck of the time once awareness is raised of confrontation. in a confrontation can be very necessary in order to get to a plac powers alan and the people can engage in conflict resolution of any sort. it often takes the form of negotiation but can be mediation or a whole range ofd oy by bala, get into some sort of negotiation is possible to get sustainable peace. that's the idea that adam crowe house and it resonated with me. and i suggest that these different stages there are different roles that are particularly important.
in an education role, your burgeoning advocacy. congregation and advocacy role is important as well. i noted in the crs document that i've highlighted as a comporting components. and only then can you get to negotiation where roles of peacemaker negotiator, things like that, can be particularly useful. this is a dynamic model so it's possible to go forward and backward. what is the goal of ecr? so some sort of ecr is feasible or forgot duopolies for the power is relatively balanced ibc is been done. what is the goal? is important to think about goals in the subject of outcomes, building infrastructure, wealth, or copying springs are building latrines are the kind of things i was involved in. but also how people will be involved. and i want to share with you sort of a version of a charge. i won't go into huge detail in the spirit from the internet -- the international subject or
dissipation on the website version of it is on their website. and it basically talks about as decision-makers, and interveners, people involved in these environmental conflict situations. it's extremely important to say what goal we're working towards and be clear about that with the people were involved. is outreach? were simply providing information? is information exchange will return to get some back-and-forth but not necessarily agreement or consensus arid do we move into recommendations where people are driving on a situation or in fact trying to reach an agreement among themselves to the decision-maker. or in fact, our main page. stakeholder action, were trying to get the stakeholders to get to do themselves? and for each of these goals there's a purpose and a promise. in the premises to be kept. one of the things i've learned from government work is sometimes people make promises they don't necessarily keep and is very, very important it is
very sensitive issues in sensitive areas to be sure that you're true to that promise all along the way. he stated up front and be clear about it as you go through. what gets ecr started? probably a lot of answers to this one, too. but i'll share little bit about my own research. i looked at 29 of mental negotiations, mostly from north america and was interested in the dynamics of the negotiations, what gets them started, what carries them forward to conclusion. either that of a model that i adapted from work by gantt chart when and also the late jim lowey who was out of george mason before his death. and essentially was looking at turning points, the changes that occur in the dynamics of a negotiation. in the precipitant of those turning points in particular the roles that might precipitate change in the kind of ysidro sensitive activity that was going on. turning points lead toward agreement or away from agreement and then turn a procedural and substantive consequences.
so i was interested in this to see what personal i can apply to the framework but also what it might reveal about in particular the different roles that might be played here it for years when i. it turns out that you get a negotiation started coming to get a ecr process started to collect about it a little bit interprocedural and external roles that make a difference. procedural and external roles. i showed very clearly in my data. for purposes of this data advocate the cases that were water related and it showed up there, too. so i considered it a pretty strong result. external roles here on people for either process expert that mediators are people who have an influence otherwise in one of the parties. sometimes it may not be a friendly thing, as a judge making a decision on something but it's nonetheless something that changes the calculation for folks to move things forward here at and i think this is important because it speaks to the power of process when these are processed interveners, but
it also speaks to other kinds of influence that can have an impact on her mental issues getting resolved. incidentally the last turning point is more subsidy to in the party than the stakeholders themselves that are typically engaged in bringing a situation to closure. what makes ecr work? my colleagues, kirk emerson, patricia air, and kathy mcknight, some of whom are affiliated with conflict resolution out of tucson arizona just published a very interesting article in conflict resolution quarterly that you might want to take a look at. look at the two cases are both u.s. federal agencies and some state. to look at what makes ecr work. what are the factors that are important to get people over the finish line to an agreement? and patricia actually share this graphic with me so i can share with you here today. essentially, this was their framework. and what it boils down to is that to get to an agreement reached, having agreements that
are high-quality and have been working relationships improve comedy intermediate variable is that engage. now the things that seem to be important in getting to that point, as well as having an indirect effect on the agreement by making sure that the appropriate parties are involved. so the speaks to make sure you have ever wondered to have a conversation even if it's not obvious who should be there. the skills and practices of meteors and facilitators are very, very important and incorporating high-quality intelligence information which is another thing that i noticed in the crs document. the stakeholders at the table of a negotiation, how relevant information, they're better able to get to these goals of agreements that are high-quality and improving working relationships. it's only one study, without limitations, but it's relatively new in it that it offered up for the consideration of folks here today. wonder the results of ecr?
what do we get for the time and expense because sometimes it is an extra expense. it doesn't seem to read to the bottom line. doesn't seem to get to the infrastructure that were trying to create to solve these water conflicts are at well, sometimes we get agreements in agreement rates in the research range everything from 61% to 91%, depending on the study. but that's not enough. grantors, government agencies, other decision-makers were fighting this type of activities or they want to know what we get as a result and we remain in this field somewhat of a faith-based initiative. we don't have as much research as the bike to back up the results of ecr that would like to see. now i happen to be a believer and i happen to have the faith that this is an important and useful work. but these other organizations often times are looking for a different kind of good news in order to get to the outcome that they're looking for. i like to share with you some work that i've been doing with,
and the graphic here didn't work out, with some colleagues and the row of art economics and mike niemeyer from the great state of oregon i'm trying i think for the first time to capture the economic and environmental results of using these kind of processes. and we have a model that compared it, which is really really important when you do in this kind of valuation research to look at what would've happened otherwise. it not enough simply to see what the results were of this process but to try to make the comparison. so i'd like to just share with you a bit of results from the work we've done. out in oregon wedding in both cases, the saltwater cases. the guy with hydra like eric issues. some fish dock issues as well as water-based transfers. not a large and so were really careful about generalizing the results, but what we found for three of the cases is that an environmental index we
constructed using these kinds of environmental facts or two of the cases we were able to do that comparison. it was better to use ecr. it was better to collaborate and work it out there and to do whatever the alternative was. in these two cases halted and marmite is about hydra like derek prelicensing issues and the alternative there would've been either litigation horse entered administrative process. bonnie colby took some of the information that we gathered for two of the cases and pulpit which was a hydroelectric case and we cost about the fish. we looked at how many more fish would be restored as a result of the agreement of the parties have reached. and here we present about here. for an economist at sort of a benefit transfer method for folks that are familiar with that technique. but really for the first time we were able to capture these kind of benefits from an ecr type
process. over at epa we did another sort of handful case studies there on water cases again. and these are permitting cases and nature cases. once again, with one exception we were able to show an improvement in environmental effects over both a ten year time span in a six year time span. the one case looked like it went backwards for a little bit, but ultimately it actually kept up. this is forward thinking. it's a way of doing an analysis that really hasn't been done before. it's a work in progress. and so, but it really is the first time that somebody has tried to capture these kind of benefits from using decision-making process like ecr. we also at the same time look in a rough way of the cost of the agency of using this process just in terms of staff time.
we can get all the numbers from other folks that were involved. and we found three of the four cases there was a net savings on the part of the agency compared to the alternative process. which in this case would've been various forms of litigation that would've taken place. so i'd like to wrap up now with a few closing remarks. in a particular focus on some of my thoughts as a part nation are. i think first of all it is important to carefully assess a conflict or situation in doing so in a collaborative way with people because there's a secret here. it's not just the assessment that separates him from the resolution process he is part of the resolution process you do get people to a place where they're thinking about agreement and trying to get small agreements on the way which can help them in the collaboration that they need to do in the future. i think the crs document speaks to this very well.
another thought is the importance and value of often overlooked professional conflict resolution expertise. i think despite the initial expense it can offer a couple of things. first of all, one against a subset of experts and decision makers a chance their job, to let someone else handle the procedural kinds of issues that can be really tasty and really challenging for folks. and let them focus on the things that they're best at. and second is breaking them pass. we see time and time again as mediators and phyllis allocators we can help you pass a tough spot. bcr professionals can take on the range of roles. one of my favorite is the role of conflict coach. either people who don't necessarily get in the front of the room with the charts and whatever but they're behind the scenes working with the decision-makers for themselves don't want to give up control of the situation, but can benefit from a little help and advice along the way. and one must practice comment, i
think an important contribution of conflict resolution, environmental conflict resolution as it was to offer hope. where people are involved in conflict there in situations of structural inequity. they don't see a way out. and in these situations some of the consequences can be quite tired out only for local people but will regions of the planet. and i think that's ecr does offer a path forward in many cases. it's a different way of thinking about things that can help people get to a better place. it's not panacea of course but i think it's a way that can help show a way forward. in closing as i reflect back on these five questions that i addressed about ripeness of goal, tipping point, process, and results. they strike me as not a way of raising the presentation but a menu of questions that development workers and others cannot themselves when they're out in the field working on these kinds of very challenging issues. and perhaps would be of help to those of you that are involved
in that directly. i want to thank you you for your question i look forward to the rest of the panel conversation will be glad to follow the folks after a few comments or questions about my presentation. thank you. hot [applause] >> i'm chip tjip walker and it's a real pleasure to be here today. again it's a pleasure to be here this afternoon. i was intriguing that all three
of the presenters today have a least one thing in common it turns out enough that we've all been peace corps volunteers. i however had nothing to do with water and so forth. i was working on coffee and cameron about 25 years ago. but i too come out this issue primarily from the dead as being an expert on conflict. and rather than being an engineer or an expert on water or natural resource management. that doesn't mean the u.s.a. doesn't in fact look at it from that particular perspective. and indeed, as i was preparing for these remarks i was very impressed to see the amount of information that is available on our website that describes the various kinds of approaches that we take looking at very much the same question from the similar, largely similar perspective to this book which is from the standpoint of what we develop water resources in a way that is
environmentally sensitive and also pays attention to local social dynamics. but i too look at this question primarily from the standpoint of saying well, what does the issue of sort of water and water development save or somebody were the questions that are raised from the standpoint of somebody was primarily looking at it from the issue of conflict. i do also want to commend crs for taking on this particular topic area and i think that organization as a whole i think the more that we all can collectively help our staff, the staff we have and our partners that we have two better integrate conflict sensitivity into ongoing development programming, the better we're owing to be. and i certainly see this new book is a welcome addition to that group of sort of conflict sensitive guys. i'm going to be shameless about this and about this and do a little bit of advertising of our own.
we too bad u.s.a. also have a number of national resource related toolkits that we call toolkits but also try to address similar kinds of issues. we have them on land, minerals, forest that deal on national resources similar topic on livelihoods and similar other as well that are available on the usaid.gov website. but this whole question about how we can all do development at little bit more sensitively is an important one and again i just want to thank, congratulates dozier taken on this very complex topic. and indeed in many ways there is really -- although we all almost taken for granted, there really is out there no more complex commodity or good out there than water because it exists in a variety of different forms. we care about it in a lot of
different purposes. it's important for everyone and we depend upon it for survival. and for all those reasons it is in some ways almost unique. but in many other ways, it does in fact look a lot like other kinds of services are goods that are out there. and so i want to frame my remarks around is essentially looking at this question of water from a conflict perspective, but looking up from saying how is water similar to other goods and services out there and how to stipulate in that respect? looking more narrowly by water from the standpoint of one that is more unique characteristics of a common pool resource and what does i do in terms of looking at from a conflict perspective? and liability more precisely this question about some of the more unique characteristics of water from a conflict is. one of the other also just want to stress again similar to
professor hall is that i is a conflict expert was pleased to see the extent to which this book really does in fact take full -- a fully embrace or do what we consider currently is best practice when it comes to thinking about conflict sensitivity, conflict and in the current issue assessment of 30 been mentioned here the emphasis on monitoring and evaluation and need for engaging stakeholders in this particular process of negotiations all very good. and they also would like to draw your attention to the fact that crs has another excellent resource out there and it's about also published by john brock and called prospective peace building. and if you're not familiar with it i can urge you to look at it aired we use it extensively in our own internal training. but essentially a sort of adopting this kind of perspective as a reflective piece felder and i think reflection and many of the work that we do particularly when
working in societies outsider and is particularly important and i just think it's really a remarkable resource that's out there. and i think crs for putting together. but back to water. and as i said water similar to a lot of other goods and services, similar to health, education, and so forth here it it is seen as a basic human need. it is something that people desperately want. it's one of the first things that people desire and inevitably it is a issue around which conflicts arise. if we think about it in this particular context, think that one of the things that comes to the forefront is the importance of governance. the research that has been done and looking at countries that are most at risk for vital conflicts, the single most important issue that emerges from that work is the importance of government. countries that are more democratic, that a more participatory, generally speaking are less at risk for
violent conflict than those with certain kinds of characteristics of democracy, but also at the same time do in fact either restrict rights, limit access to information or otherwise control the situation. of course, the most serious a talker sees are also less likely to have violent but for other reasons. but i think that what this suggests that one of the reasons that this becomes particularly important is that if you look at for two reasons. one is that the way in which people are able to resolve their conflicts, the way they are able to sort of raise issues about access to water and to see that they are in fact result in ways that are seen as generally fair and transparent is through a political process of some kind. if that is absent to them as was just recently suggested, then the prospects resort to violence becomes how much were likely. so it is that ability to be able to figure out a way to manage
this important resource in a way that is perceived of as probably legitimate and affect the, that is really the critical question. so the issue we ultimately need to address is how can we create arrangements that allow individuals to perceive that the water resources that they wish to have access to our being managed in ways that are broadly seen as being effective and legitimate. one of the challenges that we particularly safe is that if you read this book or look elsewhere and you look at the countries that are most with a water deficit is the most severe mnu overlay that with countries in terms of their quality of governance, which unfortunately see that the countries with a deficit is the most severe are also those countries were the governance is the weakest. it also just those of the conflict were generally speaking is the most likely to happen. we have the sort of conundrum of the fact that the place is predominantly in africa and to
some extent it might in america, whether we talk about rivers, what a by water basin, whether were talking about more arid lands orwell's. these are all the countries that in fact there is a mount is provided in the book that sort of looks at this question of overlay. so from a more of a macro of local fans were sort of faced with sort of a series of problems with certain countries and their overall little of governance because it is their general inability, their fragility that essentially prevents them from being able to not only manage their water resources, but a whole series of other goods and services as well. the second one i want to point out is that water and most of its forms can be classified as what is called common pool resource, sometimes called, you know, a common. and that lends itself in the
minds of many to this tragedy of the commons. in other words of the incentive for people to exploit it to the point where essentially disappears here it now, one of the most important scholars to work on this is eleanor or stram who most of you probably know one and no ball price a few months ago for her work on common pool resources and the management of those resources that i was very fortunate to live and my phd advisor in. she has done some might think remarkable work on this particular topic and shows i think fairly clearly that you don't necessarily run into a tragedy of the comments. you can in fact effectively manage these resources a certain kinds of conditions apply. now these conditions largely devolve down to the general sort of point that they work effectively when those people who have a stake in that particular resource have the
ability to meet together to establish rules that are then perceived of as fair, that can be enforced and that can be adjudicated here and in other words if there is some kind of mechanism for them to resolve disputes as they move forward to what essentially is a little miniature government system that replies to that particular common pool resource. and that i think is a very hopeful sign, argument to be made about the fact that individual -- that local groups do in fact and have been proven over the centuries to be able to manage these resources effectively if they are provided with the kind of enabling environment that allows them to essentially achieve those kinds of conditions that i just listed. the problem that you run into when i think this example that was provided about the mayor and running your round on the motorcycle and so forth is that we frequently find ourselves in environments in which we have
sort of more future nine -- ancient climates where there is a high-level people to be seen as taking responsibility and taking charge and dispensing favors hither and thither and this is not a particularly kind environment for trying to create the kinds of procedures that you need to put in place for managing common pool resources effectively. and again puts a fair amount of stress because these forums are little of the central relatively decentralized and potentially overlapping governance arrangements for common pool resources are quite challenging to set up in maine fact interfere with as i said these larger governing processes that may be in place. that doesn't mean that it can't happen. it's just saying that our challenges are there fairly severe. but then that brings us back again to this governance question. and the last point i'd like to make his essentially started saying there are certain kinds of characteristics about water
that really are somewhat unique. and i think one of the most interesting things about it is that one of the most valuable resource is his river water. and rivers often cross a jurisdictional boundaries, particularly between states. and you might think that this kind of upstream and downstream kinds of conflicts would be ones that would be writes for war and so forth. one of the things i was intrigued with is a table or a figure early in the document i think on page six which sort of provides you with a bar graph of the kinds of issues surrounding transboundary river issues. and when i was intrigued to see is that most of them have actually been positive. and so, one of the things that i think particularly river in transboundary kinds of issues
around water seem to sort of suggest to humans is the fact that we all are in this together and it doesn't seem to provide a kind of a focusing kind of example of the fact that we do need to negotiate and come up with some kind of an agreement that allows all of us to have access to these kinds of resources. and i think the fact that we have this kind of success on that kind of scale on transboundary issues. and i think generally speaking in the area of conflict or bench and these transboundary agreements are sort of how the has been one of the sort of singular examples of success of these kinds of agreements that could otherwise have been conflict sort of conflict provoked conflicts. and even in instances have led to more general forms of negotiations to resolve other kinds of issues as well. so with that i guess what i'm trying to suggest is that when it comes right down -- we sort
of look at this issue really the role of governance of the system directly in terms of our local people in a position to be able to manage those resources, what is the nature of the governing system that in the country in which these resources are found? and how readily does that essentially provide those kinds of enabling environment for the resources for those resources to be managed is crucial. and then finally that we do in fact have opportunities both looking at the small mckay said be in the examples of eleanor ahlstrom and her collaborators in terms of identifying all these various kinds of common pool resources that have been effectively managed by local organizations. but also the large in terms of transboundary agreements. i do think it does give us some hope that under the right circumstances that we do have the ability to manage these effectively in ways that are perceived generally as being effective and legitimate.
thanks. [applause] >> thank you very much. i thought all three of these presentations were super. and they gave a different death of this very important issue. jason gave a passionate view of water related conflicts from the field and surveyed a good part of the park product is oriented literature that affects or explains these conflicts. we'll reviewed some of the research efforts on application and water development activities primarily in the u.s. context and those which in fact large government institutions. tjip surveyed the conflict related characteristics of water, made the point that many of these characteristics are
similar with those that occur in other basic human needs such as education and health and so on. and he emphasized the importance of an enabling environment and government. before i turn the questions i just want to make a little statement about what we at crs would like to get out of this. our concerns are with the welfare, the dignity, the empowerment of people, especially the poorest of the poor in developing countries. and so, to be effective, to do something useful here we need to understand these issues. we need to fear the insights we may get on these issues with others, your cells. and we need to encourage more involvement in these developments are the biggies. encouraged more direct working with the people to achieve their objectives.
so what would we like from this era's purse active? and i hope some of those will come out in minor questions although i don't want to tally what questions to ask. [laughter] where do we go from here that what issues in this area of water conflict cooperation need more investigation? worst of the development community, that's all about give priority? and of course we hope to glean from this what should we at crs do from this critical subject? so with that i will take questions. we'll do is take maybe three or four questions at a time and then turned to the panelists to respond to them. yes? >> okay guess we have a roving microphone. please identify yourself and your affiliation. >> pacific northwest laboratory, but i'm not a water expert.
i would invite jason gehrig to dilate on his remarks about privatization. last time i looked it was about recapitalize gaynor s. a large-scale water projects. what was wrong with the way it was done where you saw it? was adjust the terms of the contract or is privatization actually has a remedial problems? and the other thing is i would love to hear the story about the bicycle race. [laughter] >> another question over here. >> thank you. tony from usaid programs team. i just want to raise slightly to the defense of former colleague of mine kristin whose paper you referenced there in terms of her analysis of the pro-poor impacts of the privatization.
because actually working with myself and many others with the world bank actually were very instrumental in including poverty impact assessment of a standard procedure in world bank loan issue, especially for infrastructure programs. her work has been involved in getting the voices of the poor express in ways that matter to the business makers in the big organizations. so i just wanted to clarify that he do question i have was an insight on the privatization issue. the architects of this push of the world tank. one of the reasons that has been articulated to me that is not widely known. one of the reasons that they push privatization was that they were sort of stuck in the slow end of state says. other than dr. hall's graph i think where there was this quality that would not be overcome. there was really no concert associated with that. the poor were not being served
by the good water supply in cities. and privatization push was to bring it to light and to move towards conflict which it did in many, many countries and to create the conditions for trying to move up this continue on. so i'd like to know from jason's experience in bolivia it since you were there and some of this post-conflict or conflict. do you think that actually was a constructive process and not that resulted in change? and if not or if it was imperfect, what vb could we have done to make sure that that push up the line could have been working start this? >> thank you. can i take one from the back there? gas? >> my name is shannon and i work with the roush political action committee and one of the things larusso as references is dennis is chapter one that mankind is made in god's image so that human beings have this creative power of the mind to make
scientific discoveries and technological improvements that we can always supported larger population and improve living conditions. one of the currency have is that there is a lot of talk of conflict management as if the assumption is already made that water is a scarce resource and we won't have enough. and so we have to figure out how to manage conflicts. what i want to know is why we aren't instead talking about nuclear power and detailing the station on water of industrial level. instead of digging wells in africa why we are talking about digging canal systems in modern irrigation because they could actually bring the deserts of africa the same way we agree in some of the deserts in the united states. not to mention the rest of the solar system so that my first question. and the second half we talked some about political structures and nobody's mentioned the worldwide economic crisis that we're in. and larouche has suggested that we have to actually replace the current economic system we have that seems to keep the poor are
poor and we actually have to base our system on the human mind for technological and scientific transformation in the development of all peoples. so those are my questions. >> thank you good but returned to the panelists who may or may not be able to answer your questions. who would like to go first? jason, directed directly to you. >> first ball, and certainly not an expert on privatization but i've lived it firsthand. to me it seems kind of dangerous this idea if i understand correctly shine to incite conflict and get beyond some stagnant situation. the water work into heaven 17-year-old was shot dead by a military sniper trying by school of americans. i don't think we would be going to that kind of process. nonetheless i've lived it, i've seen it that often state entities have their political
militants thrown in there, know less about water hard to manage something than their ties to the party in power. now that's one extreme. the extreme that privatization i think with the model what they showed is very outside capital is infused that was generally gained through those connection fees that were raised so high because on the outskirts this is the hide beard area. these people are credible waterton servers. and so there was actually pressure on them to use more water. in other words, it didn't make sense from a profit maximizing point of view to run infrastructure 10 miles to the outskirts of al alto were many of the indigenous lives is because of the amount of water supply at the time and the snowcapped they couldn't just get high water rates through the race themselves were not that expensive. so how do you make your money back on the cost of the infrastructure to get it out there? we have to do that to the connection fees.
they had different multilateral lending and so forth and brought some nonprivate side, but certainly didn't result in a problem there. so with that, on the state said against them of the issues are the corruption inside these entities, you know, with the unions and so forth. how to break free of that and what they were proposing was kind of an alternative. tjip was saying getting those users involved in that government, having their voice and not enough of them were two or three if it is a three or four person body a couple of them could be too easily bought off. is it enough people in there that are really looking out for the interests themselves and for their fellow neighbors and things can happen. so what we're saying is an alternative of the coach obama area because once the water privatization didn't work. the public funds still was an issue of lack of water supply.
they didn't have access to international credit for many years a somewhat of a punishment. so where did they go the small-scale cooperatives is one solution. so i think we have to be creative. i think we do have to have a balanced perspective aired i come from that view of the impoverished so you can see them a little bit. one way or another but that's not to say i'm blind to some of the issues. you know, with the public sector. and they think there's something to be said about having the integrity to look at the structure system as it is the economic, socioeconomic system of the world. we just need to keep working not under that or else we're just going to be invaded more. sorry i wish i was more to do it, but i'll leave it at that. zero bicycle story. bolivia's event one year.
a pastor at canadian on the shores of lake to a. everything had gone really well. the entity gave about 15 grain come at the local municipal party another 15 grand. community members themselves have popped up 200 for themselves and we are still shy about $3000 it's out there for about performance. we didn't have the money to buy the pump. and so, the people were getting very frustrated. we didn't have a mechanism for change orders. a work of the public water sector here is a part of reality. and so the people realize that they would have leveraged to force our hand and that was the day before the international bikes event was to pass to their community. so it's no fun being in front of 100 community members who are quite livid. it's the night before and you're hearing radio reports whether natural negotiations are going well.
and so were able to pull it off for midnight. basically it cost sharing arrangement we agreed upon. but just one of various instances we had in my life. >> and the other comments for the panel? >> the only thing i would mention is the fact that, i mean, if i've learned anything in my career is the fact that the more complex a problem you're trying to deal with the presumption is that the solution of else is also going to have to be complex. i mean if they marry well be that type allergy can be a useful factor in terms of trying to resolve some of these issues. but to think of are going to sort of invent our way out of these problems iges and they don't agree. and i think that we need to sort of think also on how we are continuing to use the resources that we do have to be good stewards. i think that also will be part
of the responsibility of genesis. there is this question of agriculture in particular. it uses a substantial proportion of the water resources that make you think that if we are thinking about how to increase -- to use our technology i think in terms of trying to figure out how we can develop an agricultural system that uses water in a much more efficient level. >> questions? back here. >> thank you. karen with the nature conservancy. i've been trying to think of how to frame this the best because they want to frame it as a conflict, but it's somewhat of an ideological differences and where i come from is the dance of how do you bridge the divide
between the development agenda and the conservation agenda? we seen this in the waterside there where someone focuses on water service delivery, but not thinking about it in the long-term stable stability. the farming happiness draining aquifers. a group we've been working a lot of our partners on asparagus farms they are which was a development project and has brought livelihood and income, but they're basically depleting the water table about 8 feet per year. and if you look at pictures of it, it is basically these greens farms in a desert that are just not going to be there that long because there won't be the water to sustain it. one of the things we tackle with us had we bridge that divide between looking at it from a development perspective, but a long-term sustainability perspective. even your with u.s. legislation with the policy for were acts. if something good for people in the long-term and also short
term. you want to run short-term delivery if you have those watershed there. i don't want to frame it as a conflict that had we bridge that divide up with how the freshwater ecosystems than you could also have healthy people? >> thank you. other questions? in the back. >> dan ross with national development. we've been involved with the developing clean water resources in uganda where the war they had there for 20 years close out of the water resources they had there. and i was trying to see what's your experience at the ngos and others developing water wells and some of the conflict of the areas to aid the people who are adversely harmed by the conflicts and partnering with other ignored stations that could develop resources to avoid future conflicts. >> okay, thank you. other questions?
>> thank you for the wonderful presentation. two points and maybe folks would like to reflect on but don't feel obliged to. one i guess would he though we flag the value or potential value of the interdependence around water and sanitation that we have for cross communities, families, countries and try to explore it proactively the prospect for cooperation that might flow from the interdependence to help solve larger conflicts with the water and sanitation issue maybe not a problem or not the focus of the problem or not without the conflict started. so i'm thinking for example and he's going to be in town next week at a forum here on the center wednesday afternoon. goodall brown bird with their water neighbors program has paired palestinian israeli committees around sanitation
issues where kids got sick on both sides of the border of the sanitation and that is not treated. use that logic of interdependence that need to cooperate to do school to school, mayor to mayor and then play that cooperation for its own benefit. it also use it to improve the relationship in the larger conflict that we can agree about the sanitation issue. so i think we want to capture that and again as i indicated up front a strength of the report that it's not just about threats and arm waving, it's also making that transition to what do we do about aquatic and a second point would be in that category of what to do in the future is how do all these issues change in a warmer world? the climate change dimension obviously a big part of what we have to do with the climate change issue for look in a security context is bring it down to individual implications for individual resource sector
types for water that will be a lot more in some places in less than others. it will episodic and lots of change all of which will affect these dynamics. i think certainly the first up will be doing empire what this report does and what it's facilitated for us here today, which is getting folks coming to this endeavor is perspective to talk here because i think there's an assumption that we know each other's languages and and mechanisms. i think i am learning a lot of presentations today i saw that there's a lot i have to learn and i know it's not easy, but it's necessary. it's not easy to measure and give that impact because their process indicators. much of it is getting in the room and plenty for one another but nevertheless a high value. i think i started the presentation here again. tina mike very much. >> good. thank you. we have some juicy issues here to look at.
bridging the gap between conservation and the development agenda, the issue of what is the effect of war holes and wells on water tables and the effects on people in northern uganda and the looming question of how does climate change affect the work that we are doing? who would like to jump into this? i'll give it a shot here it >> a big issue i wanted to take on a couple of the questions that came up and probably a fairly superficial way and maybe it will be abused. it is personal healthy people versus healthy water. this distinction. i think the first turning point is to reframe it. i think as long as we continue to see this dichotomy we're going to continue to have the problem. the second thing i think they are is looking for the examples of where it has worked. there must be examples and
finding them and figuring out how they're similar to other situations that may exist out there. i think that's critical particularly when you're trying to get to decision-makers in the u.s. federal government to be allowed to show what sorts of income worked and why they're reframing your turn to do make sense. in terms of issues of climate change, obviously hot topic so to speak for a lot of us these days. what i expect to see in the absence of some very smart interventions in action frankly in the part of the various governments and international community is a lot of places in the world are going to be facing this kind of issues that haven't been facing them before. and up to and including these united states that think were going to be looking at situations where as well as the cs before we don't have the governance structure and in place to do with them. some of those dirty starting to happen in this country.
and it's important that we try to get ahead of those and begin to think about putting strategies in place we don't find ourselves dealing with the consequences later on. >> any other comments? >> let me sort of pick up a little bit on the last observation. i mean, i think that one of the strengths of the book and i think it's been repeated several times is the fact that while there's no question that water has been the source it's been in the object of violent conflicts in the past. there isn't necessarily an inherent reason to believe that just because you happen to have a water resource if you're necessarily going to have conflict associated with it. anything that is important to bear that in mind even as we begin to think about the greater stresses that will be being placed on some of these water
resources as we experience the warming of the climate here it i agreeable results probably in issues that haven't been thought a before. but i think it's also important and one of the things -- one of the issues are of us have been examining is to look at the sort of larger question about what our the long-term conflict implications of global warming? and not to say were the only ones that have done so, but the work that we have commissioned a sickly argues for maintaining a bit more of a new one kind of an approach to saying yes there are these greater risks. they do as i'm mentioned before happen to largely global warming is likely according to the climate models and so it seems to be having greater impact in countries that are currently not fair well governed and are at risk for violence. but on the other hand let's also not discount the abilities of local communities and their capacities for resilience to be
able to find ways to manage these changes as well. at one of the things looking forward i think that we are interested in examining more deeply is as we begin to already see examples where there is climate related change and could be kind of related change that is either a national sort or man-made as our representative mentioned about the asparagus farms. and the question of how is it that communities are in fact adapting? what does you and to predispose this kind of communities to be able to manage those conflicts by themselves? what kinds of internal resources traditional practices, local level governance arrangements industry reckon seemed to be of use in trying to resolve those conflicts and what seems to predispose people more for conflict. we think of what to get that kind of sort of understanding that will put all of us in a better understanding a much more
localized basis where these risks the greatest? i also agree i think they're the tensions between development and conservation and development and conflict himself worth. and i think the only thing that suggests to us is that we do need to look at these issues in any long-term perspective. may not had a conflict over the asparagus farms of the past but a few tall people were dependent on that now is a livelihood that you're going to take it away from them i imagine that's going to be a source of conflict. so i think that we do need to be attentive to it and i think the only solution is essentially one that sort of looks more effectively at this question of what are the longer-term impacts. and of course that requires less all of us as part of the development community to take a longer-term perspective as we think about our projects in our programs. >> let me take advantage of my role here as the moderator to try to address the question on uganda and the affect of war
holes and wells and how does this affect teen ngos in their work. to tell the truth, we really don't know well what the problem is. we can sense the conflicts are occurring at disagreements occur. we've seen communities between communities between administrative regions, but we do not have a good systematic way of trying to capture this information and have a way to act on it. we need to develop better ways of monitoring, better ways of name with development projects after the project is finished. so that one can see what is the evolving dynamic that occurs. so we are in a mode now of trying to determine what question we should be asking in these areas. your question is good and sorry i can't say that we have the answer to it because we don't. and i think very few
organizations have a good understanding of how to deal with conflicts, particularly at the very local level between people, between households, between communities. i may give one example when i was a piece for volunteer you can't be at this unless you're a volunteer. many years ago when i was in tanzania working with the water development department to department put up a windmill at the interface between two tribal areas in the north tanzania. of course, we had no idea of what conflict mitigation or resolution was an conflicts arose between these two ethnic groups over who would control the windmill. so they solved the problems their own way. they took it down. and the local people took the windmill down that way the results are than everybody was equal again. that's not a method that i think we want to recommend for the future, but that is a
catastrophic outcome when conflicts are not understood and addressed. could we get to more questions and comments? >> e4 you do, if i get talk about this issue about the war holes and so forth. i think it's an example of a more general issue about bringing development type activities into post-conflict environments. the only thing i would add is that i don't think that there's anything inherent about the house conflict environments that suggests you should try to do the best practices that are talked about embedded in here. .. up --
>> gilbert arenas thought it was a joke. nba commissioner david stern always has the last laugh. we'll have plenty of reaction regarding agent zero's suspension. the caps take the ice in the phone booth and a key player returns to the lineup hoping to provide a spark. now nat redskins have nature man, what's the next step of their plan? more on the hiring of mike han han and what one -- shanahan and what one former player says he brings to the table. >> he expects nothing less than perfection. he demands it. he's going to get it oust you. live from the comcast sportsnet disoorks this is "geico sportsnite". late this afternoon, the macive gilbert arenas banner that hung on the sixth street side of the verizon center was
taken down. arenas suspended from play and now his image removed from outside the arena. his mere presence used to fill. greetings, good evening. welcome into the comcast sportsnet studios. this is "geico sportsnite". two stories have dominated the headlines this week. the redskins firing of jim zorn and subsequent hiring of mikeshanahan and gilbert arenas suspended indefendant nightly without pay by nba david stern. as we get video ready for air, we'll gu get you to the gilbert arenas studio, but we begin with the washington capitals on the ice tonight playing host to the ottawa senators. let's take you to ice le
we are joined live by the pride of mo town. lisa hillary. the caps able to snap their three-game losing streak on tuesday night. how are things look ?oont. >> i wouldn't say evenly matched here, ross. i think -- russ. i think the capitals have a slighter edge. capitals take on one of the worst road teams in the national hockey league. ottawa coming off a 4-1 loss to the boston bruins. ottawa a-very, very streaky team and the washington capitals are well aware of ottawa's strengths even though the senators are without their captain. >> some pretty good balance. there are guys that can put the puck in the net. you know, clef clef had four goals -- kovalev had four goals the other day. he's a capable scorer. just more concerned about us. we want to make sure our effort is there. >> they have some dangerous players. as long as we're aware of which guys to take away and make sure you don't give them too much time and space, we'll be fine. we need to pickup our offense a little bit more and that is
good team to do it against. >> now, pascal leclair will start for the ottawa senators. 'as we bring in our analysts, down at the other end jose theodore is getting the nod. i was surprised at practice when i was talking to michael asking him consequence imes this game. he said you may want to ask somebody else because i don't think i'm getting the call tonight. does it surprise you -- surprise you that bruce has gone back to jose? >> no, not at all. you can't let him rot on the bench. he has had a great career against ottawa. to me, it's no surprise at all. i expect a very big game out of him. >> carl has been sent -- karl alzner has been sent back down to the hershey bears. caps getting defensive help. brian pothier out with a rib injury out for 11 games a former fwaw senator. what do you like about brian's game? >> direct passes in his own end. they have guys wrapping the puck around all the time. he can make a direct pass up
the wall and doesn't depend on wrapping the puck. i like the way he moves the puck. i love the way he skates. when he joins the play, he's a lot better player and helps the team out a lot more when he's involved in the offensive attack. >> a quick question. the washington capitals power play has sort of struggled off and on that. move proved to be very beneficial when tomas fleischmann was moved to the center and scored the power play goal investment important. do you expect him to stay in the spot for a sfwhiel. >> at least for tonight. bruce hasn't kept his lines together that long. brooks laich thought he wasplaying center the other night and found out prior to the game he was going to stay on the wing. i don't think anything can go wrong either way and gives them another option at the end of the season. i'll expect him to be there for tonight. next game, i wouldn't expect to see him by the way things have gone. >> definitely likes to shuffle those lines. brian may, thank you very much. as always, we look forward to your post-game summary. >> thank you. >> ottawa has not faired very well here in dc. they have lost their last six dating back to march of 2006.
>> lisa hillary, thank you very much. looking forward to your reports from verizon center later tonight. coming up after "geico sportsnite", stay tuned for the senators-capitals in splendiferous hi-definition on comcast sportsnet. when it's done, al coken and al will break it all down on post- game live. here is a look at what very well could be a lasting image from this saga. the gilbert arenas, washington wizards saga which reportedly began on the wizards team playing december 19 came to a head on the 21st. this pre-game picture from tuesday night in philadelphia which brought forth the wrath of the nba. mike wise reports in today's "washington post" that not only did arenas lay his unloaded weapons in teammate javaris crittenton's cubicle as was previously reported, but also that arenas told investigators that crittenton pulled out his own gun, loaded and cocked it.
these details corroborated by two of the five people in the room. according to wise's story, they say recent didn't disclose crittenton's actions in an attempt to protect his teammate from prosecution. joined now by chris miller who has been covering this story by ?elt sportsnet. and in philadelphia. chris, what done about what went down in the locker room on the 21st? >> this is the latest. what we know about the situation is it's ever changing. the investigation continues by federal and local authorities. i can tell you that this new information of javaris crittenton's involvement, if it's true, could end his nba career before it was able to truly blossom. >> i have loyalty to my teammates. i'll let you guys beat me up. i'll take all the hits right now. >> that might have been an attempt by gilbert arenas to lay the foundation trying to protect his teammate javaris crittenton and his involvement in the december 21st incident. now that new developments splash the front page of the
"washington post" thursday in which mike wise wrote several eyewitness saw crittenton indeed pull a loaded handgun. >> the corroboration of two guys that witnessed this in the locker room if it's true, javaris crittenton may never play an nba minute again let alone season. so, i think if they don't find a gun and from what i understand javaris crittenton was padded down and they could not find a gun in his possession or anywhere in the locker room after the incident, it's going to be hard to prove. >> despite those new developments, gilbert arenas continues to be at the center of this controversy. callers react on the mike wise show on 106.7 the fan and as expected opinions elevatoried. >> any wizards fan out there with a brain that is ever interested in them ever winning again should be praying they can get out from under this contract. >> i say you give them a big slap on the wrist or something that will heal phil.
i figure somewhere in the neighborhood of -- >> i hear people say that's just gil. gill plays around. look, every bad guy i've known on the street, every crazy guy, every drunk knew when to be oberto sober, when not to be crazy and when to be bad. >> a much different take across town on the john thompson show on espn 980. the hall of fame coach can't find any scenario to try to defend the actions of arenas admitting bringing firearms into the locker room. >> i was hurt, frustrated truth three trying to figure -- figure out a way to jump up and say something to help him. the frustrating part about it is i can see no way possible of justifying that. no way. that bothers me as much as anything. >> nba super agent david falk has negotiated contracts for players for over 35 years. he finds this situation truly a head scratcher. as to why arenas would continue to make a joke of a very serious situation. >> gilbert's gesture after
introductions when he mocked firing the gun, was basically a way of mocking david stern. he made -- he may not have looked at it that way, but anyone who knows a person in position of authority like david has to be, he forced david's hand. >> while arenas sits at home and waits for potential punishment, there is the right of wizards have of terminating the remainder of his six-year, $111 contract. >> i think he's already been paced on -- placed on gun violation in his career in oakland, the ramifications for him might be greater than for a first offender. they have chance to see how the situation plays from a legal standpoint. if he's indicted for a crime that involves a felony, they have an open-and-shut case to terminate his contract. if he's not but it just falls into the grounds of moral interpreter tiewd, they have an ability -- interpretery tiewd, they have an ability to neil
hartman nate and i believe the players union would file a disagreement. he needs to get -- >> he needs to get an advisor. he needs to get somebody he's dealing with he'll listen to. it's a difference between being told things you need to tell somebody and you listening. >> as for javaris crittenton, he says the account of the incident described in wise's story today is false sending a text message to the reporter. offense i have done nothing wrong. let the investigation process take its course and you will see that. my name is dying in this situation." all right. i bring in chris miller. by the way, more of the david falk interview is on our web site csnwashington.com. what's next? that was the first we heard from crittenton. david stern made it clear it was gilbert's actions after the fact while the investigation was going on that led to his suspension. what about crittenton? >> keep this in mind, russ. the reason why gilbert arenas is signature at home is because
of the actions that he had in philadelphia and the tweets and the comments he made after the game. javaris crittenton per his attorney has told him to keep his mouth shut. as you notice last night, delonte west from the cavaliers continues to play whis firearm charges still up in the air. he still has not heard from the league office because typically they let the legal process take its course and then the commission letter step in. >> is this in your opinion an isolated incident or does this open a pandora's box into cultures that reside within the nba or professional sports that maybe we haven't delved deep enough into yet? >> ace said in the past couple of days, i think the commissioner has done a fantastic job since the late '90s trying to clean up this league as it pertains to the image of the national basketball association. when you look at the way the players are supposed to dress. the way they go about their business, no hats in the locker room. trying to get the weapons out of the league. the last thing they need deal with right now is a situation like this. this thing is only going to get
worse because if the wizards terminate gilbert arenas' contract, i have been told this thing could get a lot worse than what we've ever imagined. >> chris miller, thank you very much. continue to keep up the good work on this story. >> trying. >> get on csnwashington.com for the latest information on the gilbert arenas investigation. as chris just mentioned, this thing is far from over. key word "wizards." you'll get a full timeline also and everything that has taken place. it's all on csnwashington.com. still to come on "geico sportsnite", what does mike shanahan like as a motivator. we'll hear from one of his former players. what will the patriots offense look without -- look like without receiver wes welker? the ravens game plan for sunday. this is "geico sportsnite". host: could switching to geico really save you
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just like you did last game. fight your [beep] off in somebody's backyard. enjoy the win. mike shanahan began interviewing the redskins assistant coaches individually this morning before flying to denver later on the day. the only two assistants believed to even have a chance to stay on are special teams -- special teams danny gray. our kelli johnson reports the bengals mike zimmer is at the top of the list for that job,
but jim haslett is expected to interview for the post early next week. former broncos and ravens tight end shannon sharpe was in owings mills today. he knows a thing or two about shanahan having won a super bowl title with the head coach. here is what ed he has to say about the man and his latest undertaking edoes a great job for him. defensively, think they have a lost pieces in place. the big question is do they go in a different direction on quarterback or does he think he can get something out of jason campbellment one thing do i know about mike, guys, if you haven't been practicings -- practicing, you're going to practice. there's an expectation level. he expects nothing less than perfection. demands t he's going to get tout of you. he's going to push you farther than you think you can go. i tell you what. the end result i have two super bowls on my ring i can honestly say because of mike shanahan. there's a level of respect he's going to give you and he's going to demand. there's a level of trustees
going to give you and he expects in return. there's no question in my mind that i think the washington redskins, this was a great hire for them and they're going to be a team to deal with in the future. >> if you go to csnwashington.com right now, you can watch redskins captains watching yesterday's press conference with chick hernandez. it's truly some remarkable stuff. you can check it out on csnwashington.com. ravens are in new england for the wild card matchup against the patriots. you can bet they're focus