tv U.S. Senate CSPAN May 16, 2011 8:30am-12:00pm EDT
radar which is located just north of complex 39 on the merit island national wildlife refuge. that will be working together with some x band radars on the retrieval ships of the rocket boosters. so a detailed computer graphic will be generated that can identify anything that comes off the shuttle during flight. [no audio]
>> this is shuttle launch control. 14:30 remain anything this planned built-in hold, and joining us here at the console in fire room four is pete, the assistant launch director today, and we thought we would ask him a little bit about how the countdown has been going and maybe some of the things that we've worked. pete, it appears to have been fairly quiet, but the tile issue on the hatch, i don't think that's ever something we've worked before, is it?
>> good morning, george. as a matter of fact, we did work a fairly similar issue for the sts-133 haunch -- launch, so we developed some recent experience in working a minor chip and a slurry repair such as what we executed today. fortunately, the closeout crew took care of it in very short order, and we've got a clean bill of health with our, with our side hatch tile. >> well, other than that i think we didn't work too many issues since we picked up the countdown, have we, today? is. >> it has been relatively smooth. we've had a couple of just minor nits, but the launch team with no issues, and at this point the launch team, the vehicle, and the crew's all ready to go. we were watching some weather. there was a band of clouds approaching from the west, but we've had the weather aircraft
approach and take various looks and sees, and the clouds appear to pose no issues. so we're looking good as far as that's concerned. >> so we do have a forecast go and an observed go weather forecast for launch at this time. >> how have our computers performed? >> the apu heaters, i'm pleased to say perform nominally, there are no issues at all with them, and they're right on the mark. and so we declared that, certainly, a victory. >> well, pete, i guess it looks like we're there. we've had some challenges over the last couple of weeks, but we certainly did show that we could, we could manage that. how would you characterize how the team has had to meet with this challenge over the last couple of weeks? >> well, this is just an amazing combined team that we have here. and as usual, they faced the challenge, tackled it with all the vim and vigor that we're known for and resolved it, and
we're back in the ready-to-launch mode. and i'm proud to say we expect the launch here shortly. >> well, pete, thanks very much. and i guess we're, what, a little more than 20 minutes or so away from the launch. so congratulations on helping to bring us to this point in the coupdown, and we're -- countdown, and we're looking forward to liftoff as you are. >> absolutely. thanks, george. >> 11:25 remaining this this hold at t-minus nine minutes. this is shuttle launch control. [no audio]
spaulding will be giving instructions to the launch team for the final nine minutes of the countdown. and our launch director, mike linebach, will also be polling his management team. and we'll also hear the orbiter test conductor, mark taffit, from united space alliance closing the final loops with the crew and giving them a sendoff on a good flight.
[no audio] >> the blinds here in the firing room on firing room four in the back of the room, now, are being raised since we are anticipating an on-time launch here in the next 15 minutes or so. >> attention, all personnel, we have about eight and a half minutes left of hold time here at t-minus nine minutes, and we're still tracking no issues at this point. [no audio]
>> houston flight? >> houston flight is go. >> stm? >> stm is go. >> safety console? is. >> go. >> lrd? >> lrd is go. >>sro? is. >> sro is go. >> cdr? >> cdr and the crew of endeavour are go. >> copy all. our launch team is ready to proceed at this time. >> okay. you have green to launch. >> nsro, you're on 212. >> and ntd, your poll is go, is that affirmative? >> that is affirmative. we are all go. >> okay, copy that. verify no constraints to launch. >> no constraints. >> thanks, steve. >> kc mission assurance. >> go. >> thank you, dave. >> payload launch manager. >> process a go. >> thank you, bill. >> range weather? >> weather has no constraints. >> thank you, kathy. >> and ops manager. >> things look real good.
thanks to the team for getting us back here. you're go to launch endeavour. >> thank you, sir. air to ground one. >> [inaudible] >> okay, mark. looks like a great day to launch endeavour for the final time, so on behalf of the thousands of proud americans who have been part of her journey, good luck, godspeed, and we'll see you back here june 1st. >> thank you, sir. on the part of the space shuttle flight endeavour, we want to thank the tens of thousands of employees who have dedicated their live toss the space shuttle program. as americans, we endeavor to be a united nation. in these efforts we are often tested. this mission represents the power of teamwork, commitment and exploration. it is in the dna of our great country reach for the stars and explore. we must not stop. to all of the millions watching today including our sponsors, fall, children, family and friends, we thank you for your
support. >> outstanding words, mark. thank you, sir. and to do that, you are clear to launch endeavour. >> copy that, thank you. >> we're about 2:15 away from picking up the could countdown. >> recorder activation complete. >> copy, isl. >> our nasa administrator, charlie bolden, has joined us here in the firing room. as has kennedy space center
controlling over a thousand different parameters monitored and verified in the next nine minutes. the handoff to endeavour's onboard computers will occur at t-minus 31 seconds, and at that point that handoff will not occur if there is anything that is not go for launch. >> elt-otc, connect the central process to your fuel cells for your checklist. >> elt, that's many works. that's in works.
>> the orbiter access arm will be retracted in about 20 seconds. >> go for opener access on recheck. >> endeavour otc, it's your final voyage. this is both a sad and proud moment for your launch team and for america, but your legacy will live on. mission success with ams, a truly international effort. godspeed and see you back in a couple of weeks. >> endeavour copies. thanks for the words. appreciate it. >> orbiter test conductor mark taffet from the united space alliance. wishing the crew well.
tank. >> lo2 prosecutionization. pressurization. >> they'll be retracting the gaseous oxygen arm. >> caution memory, verifying no unexpected errors. >> plp, that's in works. >> otc, plt, caution and warning memory is clear. no unexpected errors. >> copy that. endeavour otc, close and lock your visors, initiate o2 flow. >> endeavour, in works. >> t-minus two minutes and counting. >> go for etlh2 pressurization.
>> closing the liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogeneral filling drain valves. standing by for the handoff to endeavour's onboard computers. >> t-minus 31 seconds, and the handoff has occurred. >> 25. 20. >> fireing chain is armed, water pressure system is armed. total remaining to start, eight, seven, six, four, three, two, zero and liftoff for the final launch endeavour!
expanding our knowledge, expanding our lives in space. >> endeavour, all programs. >> roger, roll, endeavour. >> houston is now controlling, endeavour rolling onto its back as endeavour begins the head down position on course for a 51.6 degree orr bill. orbit. >> three engines now throttling down as endeavour passes through the area of maximum dynamic pressure on the vehicle in the lower atmosphere. approaching one minute into the flight. >> endeavour, go at throttle up. >> roger. go at throttle up.
>> endeavour's three main engines now back at full throttle, all tree engines -- three engines in if good shape. endeavour's already traveling 1300 miles per hour. at an altitude of 11 miles down range from the kennedy space center. now 12 miles. at liftoff endeavour, fully fueled, weighed four-and-a-half million pounds. it's lost half that weight in propellant now. next event is burnout and separation of the twin solid rocket boosters. that upcoming here shortly, those boosters are burning 11,000 pounds of fuel per second. >> and standing by for separation of the solid rocket boosters.
the onboard or guidance system has done its job of settling down any dispersantses introduced at booster separation. the orbiter's now traveling 3,200 miles per hour down range 50 miles, altitude 37 miles. all systems in good shape. three good hydraulic systems, auxiliary power unitses and fuel cells. the fuel cells providing power to all of the systems. >> roger, who two engine -- [inaudible] >> endeavour can reach a site in the event of a single engine failure, however, all three are in good shape. endeavour sailing into good winds on its final historic voyage. this view looking down the external fuel tank, the orbiter there on the top as endeavour
continues to power its way into orbit traveling 4,000 miles per hour down range, 90 miles altitude, 50 miles. 3:15 into the flight. >> all three main engines looking in good shape. hydraulic systems and electrical systems onboard the orbiter. >> endeavour, negative return. >> roger. negative return. >> endeavour can no longer return to the kennedy space center in the event of an engine
failure now, but all three are still in good shape as are all of the other systems aboard the orbiter, quiet here in mission control as a team of flight controllers watches over all of the systems. 4:20 into the flight, endeavour's traveling 5500 miles per hour. altitude now 63 miles, traveling down range 186 miles or about 335,000 feet in altitude. environmental and control systems officer here reporting a good pleasure of operate system providing cooling to all of the avionics equipment aboard the vehicle. traveling into space on the forward flight deck is commander mark kelley and pilot greg johnson. between and behind is the flight engineer and rounding out the crew is mike fink. >> endeavour, press to ato. >> roger. press to ato. >> endeavour can reach orbit on
two engines. should one fail at this point, however, all three are still performing as planned. on the middeck of endeavour, drew and greg. drew headed to the international space station for the first time, fink making first voyage on the space shuttle after flying to the international space station aboard soyuz previously. >> endeavour, single engine ops 3. >> roger. single engine ops 3. >> that call indicates that endeavour could reach a transatlantic abort site on one engine if it lost two of the three, although all three are still in good shape 5:50 into the flight. ..
104. >> in denver can reach on one in jenin. the three main engines are flowing fuel through their power systems at a rate equivalent to training and average backyard swimming pool in 25 seconds. seven minutes 20 seconds into the flight, altitude 64 miles down range from the kennedy space center, 630 miles. endeavour estrada 13,500 miles per hour. we are now seeing strongly on the three main engines to maintain the 3g or three times gravity load on the vehicle and the crew. engines at 82% of rated thrust, eight minutes into the flight. the next activity is main engine
cut off. that's expected to be commanded at 21 seconds. and main engine cutoff has been confirmed. reporting a nominal main engine cutoff. and separation from the external tank. endeavour's commander mark kelly now firing the thruster jets to position the orbiter for photography of the external tank. >> we did see a --
[inaudible] >> copy. not required. >> the pitch out remover will allow for photography from the tank as it falls away from the orbiter, that to capture images for the imagery analysis team to evaluate any loss of the foam from the tank during the launch phase of the vehicle. the residual items floating away. no, typically particles of ice that accumulate on the backend of the orbiter during the thinking process while it was sitting on the launchpad. by all indications all of the flight control team here in mission control reporting normal all the way uphill from this
early standpoint, or no issues at all with any of the systems aboard endeavour on the way into space. endeavour now safely is into space. the next big activity will be the orbital maneuvering system engine burn to circular eyes endeavors orbit. currently the vehicle is in a 136 by 36 statute mile orbit, very highly elliptical. that will be refined here in the next 30 minutes to more secularized the army on its way to the international space station. that link up with the iss scheduled for early wednesday morning, about 6:15 a.m. is the current targeted blocking kind of endeavour to the iss. again, a fairly routine, all of the calls, port calls to the flight director all the way
uphill or fairly routine. there were no anomalies discussed whatsoever on the way uphill during today's launch. you are looking at richard jones in the middle there. is the flight director for sts-134. barry willmore in the near view serving as the spacecraft communicator. lee just sitting down to serve as the interface for weather reconnaissance with astronaut rick struck out who was flying aircraft down at the kennedy aircraft center if i would weather. been at the top of the pressure is tony, who served as the weather flight director. and he also will be back 14 days from now serving as the entry flight director for endeavour's final return home at the end of this mission.
>> that is a good read back, endeavour. >> flight director richard jones getting a go from flight for a shutdown of the auxiliary power units. >> endeavour, you are go for shut down. >> copy. go for apu shut down. >> those three hydraulic systems perform perfectly going uphill. also, the control of the heaters for the apu's, obviously the issue that delay the launch a couple of weeks, the apu heaters working just fine of board the vehicle. as is the flash is that british system which provides cooling to all of the avionics and electronics equipment aboard
endeavour until the payload bay doors are opened. the door opening is scheduled to occur about an hour, an hour and a half or so into the flight once the payload doors are opened the flash evaporators system is a bypass which allows the radiators to be activated. and the cooling of all of the systems during on orbit operations is conducted through the radiators that line the payload bay doors.
[no audio] [no audio] >> office reports a good shutdown of the auxiliary panel units. those are not required for the on orbit phase of the mission. they provide hydraulic power to the main engines, and also the aero surfaces. they will be required obviously for entry. one of those will be used day before landing for a checkout of the flight control surfaces and the arrow services as well. all of those will be checked out before entering, but the apu's now have done their job putting endeavour into orbit, assisting with that next up will be a bu
burn. >> the spreading call is a nominal call that is basically what we do when we're going over europe so the s-band communication system doesn't interfere with telecommunications satellites. also reporting that that orbital maneuvering system to burn more secularized endeavors orbit upcoming at about 37 minutes, mission elapsed time. that's about 20 minutes from now. crew now in the process of
beginning to transition the onboard software to the post ascent stage. crew is still in its asset checklist. they will transition to the post insurgent checklist about 35 minutes or so. mission elapsed time. everything going very smoothly with endeavors asset post insurgent activities onboard. we will head back down to florida now for the traditional launch replay. >> it would appear all is well with the shuttle endeavour's launch this morning. its final voice, the 25th mission which is expected to last about 16 days. we'll hear more about the launch and the mission during a post-launch newscast. that's expected to start in about an hour and will have live coverage here on c-span2.
>> i'm newt gingrich and i'm announcing my candidacy for president of the united states. i believe we can return america to hope and opportunity spent with the field of republican presidential hopefuls beginning to take shape, all the candidates speeches on the road to the white house and look back at their careers online with the c-span video library. search, watch, click and share with everything we've covered since 1987. it's what you want when you want. >> this week on "the communicators," a look at cell
phone privacy and a senate hearing this past week about reports that google and apple's smart phones may be tracking the location of users without their knowledge. >> host: this week saw the first ever congressional hearing on phone tracking, the senate judiciary subcommittee on privacy technology and the law held a hearing on protecting mobile privacy. that's our topic this week on "the communicators." joining us is paul kirby, senior editor of telecommunications reports. mr. kirby, were apple and google on the hot seat in this hearing this week thank you they were on the hot seat. there's been reports about apple collecting location information, how the information is used and is that a lot of controversial, a lot of mems of congress both in house and senate have written letters. they were in the hot seat with center, the new chairman of the new committee, so they kind of had to answer questions about
what their practices are and what they do and what they don't do. >> host: who discovered that these smart phones were capable of doing this? >> guest: i mean, the companies would say the quote unquote discovery with something that occurred all on. it's just there was some researchers recently that realized that tracking goes on. "the wall street journal" had also written stories about tracking, and what location information used. the member's of congress into really a few weeks ago didn't seem to have any knowledge of that. the companies say, the information issues for a lot of services that consumers want. they want to be able to know where the nearest mcdonald's is. they want to know where the kids are when they have their phones. the question is how is the information used and do consumers know it is being used. and one of the things that this hearing showed as well as some other letters to congress recently is there are a lot of players in the ecosystem and not all of them fall under any particular law as the senator
pointed out in his opening statement. there really are no laws that cover all of this location-based information. >> host: let's look at al franken's opening statement. >> now, today in this hearing we're looking at a specific kind of really sensitive information that i don't think we're doing enough. to protect. and that's data from mobile devices, smartphones, tablet and cell phones. this technology gives us incredible benefits. let me say that. let me repeat that. this technology gives us incredible benefits. it allows parents to see the kids and wish them good night even when they're halfway around the world. it allows a lost driver to get directions and that allows emergency responders to locate a crash victim in a matter of seconds. but the same information that allows those responders to locate us when we're in trouble is not necessarily information all us want to share all the
time with the entire world. and yet, reports suggest that the information on our mobile devices is not being protected in the way that it should be. in december, investigation by "the wall street journal," into 101 popular apps for iphone and android smartphones found that 47 of those apps, 47, transmitted the smart phones locations to third party companies. most of them did this without their users consent. three weeks ago security researchers discovered that iphones and ipads running apple's latest operating system, or gathering information about users locations, location, up to 100 times a day. and storing the information on the phone or tablet and copying it to every computer that the device is synced to. soon after that the american public also learned that both iphones and android phones were automatically collecting certain
location information from users phones and sending it back to apple and google, even when people were not using location applications. in each of these cases, both users had no idea what was happening. enemy of these cases once the users learn about it they had no way to stop it. these breaches of privacy can have real consequences for real people. a justice department report based on a 2006 data, shows that each year over 26,000 adults are stocked through the use of gps devices including gps devices on mobile phones. that's in 2006 when there were a third as many smart phones as there are today. >> host: paul kirby? >> guest: he makes some interesting points. again, a lot of it is congress doesn't keep up with the technology on a day-to-day basis, and what they do, what congress does is usually falls kind of a technology.
in this case, he pointed out at the hearing that the current laws really don't -- there are laws adopted in 1980s for instance, 1990s that are really not out of date. so the senator and others as well as house members have talked about legislation that would cover location-based services, and more widespread security legislation, data, privacy legislation that would say if there is a breach, not just on location based services but other services, they have to notify people. right now states, more than 40 states have laws like that but there's no national framework. at the hearing yesterday there were representatives of justice, the federal trade commission that talked about the need for that. >> host: so the representatives from the federal government did all a great that some kind of federal law is needed? >> guest: gated. >> host: what was the mood from other members of the committee? >> guest: i would say the mood was similar.
the chairman of the full committee, senator leahy, was also made some comments that were similar. and that is basically we need to update things. senator leahy that he is working on an update of electronic indications privacy act. that legislation talked about 15 years ago that again before have location-based services. i'd think there's a lot of similar comments made to senator franken's. >> host: i would ask the one thing senator frank said in his opening statement. transmitting data and information to third parties. who are those third parties? >> guest: the third parties can be a lot of, a lot of the sequences much of applications and applications that are downloaded by people onto their phones. there's a lot of countries that might be involved in helping create this application or actually application developers to make extra revenue for carriers to make extra revenue, or companies that manufacture
operating systems to make extra revenue can transmit that data to other people for marketing purposes. for instance, again a lot of the location-based services try to focus on making money off where people are. if you're walking by starbucks you to coupon on your phones and communicate a lot a. that kind of thing. the question is who gets this information and are you giving consent to it. the problem is the developers and operating system people, they don't fall into the laws like carriers do. the federal communications commission has laws that govern carriers. and before carriers can take identifiable information of a person and use it for any commercial purpose they have to get permission of that person. but operating system makers as well as applications developers, they don't fall into that regime. so there are a lot of parties here. and as he said at that hearing, you can have someone sell to someone to sell to someone.
and the consent issue is also a couple good one. how do you ask for consent? how to do that on a smaller screen? do you do each time or ask the senator and others said, is at the end of a nine page privacy agreed that people just click through and say yes and they didn't actually read it. >> host: one of the testified yesterday was from apple and here's an exchange he had with senator franken. >> last month i asked apple in a letter why it was build a comprehensive location database on iphones and ipads and storing it on people's computers when they synced up. of course, apple's reply to my letter will be added to the record. but this is what apple ceo steve jobs said to the press, quote, we build a crowd source database, wifi and cell tower hotspots. those can be over 100 miles away from where you are. those are not telling you anything about your location.
end quote. yet, in a written statement issued that same week, apple explained that this very same data will, quote, help your iphone rapidly and accurately calculate its location. or as "the associated press" summarized it, the data help the phone figure out its location, apple said. but steve jobs the same week said those are not telling you anything about your location. mr. tribble, it doesn't appear to me that both of these statements can be true at the same time. this data -- does this data, i understand you're anticipating my question, so i would just ask and you answer it. does this data indicate anything about your location, or doesn't it? >> senator, the data that is stored in the database is the
location of as many wifi hotspots and cell phone towers as we can have. that data does not actually contain in our databases in the customer information at all. it's completely anonymous. it's only about the cell phone towers and the wifi hotspots. however, when a portion of the database is downloaded onto your phone, your phone also knows which hotspot and cell phone, cell phone towers it can receive right now. so the combination of where are those towers and hotspots plus your phone knowing which ones it can receive right now is how the phone figures out where it is without the gps. >> well, right after that the senator asked one of the other witnesses who is a private consultant who worked with "the wall street journal" and is
worth the of risk of is at the, does this information let them locate cell phones and he said basically that data can locate devices quite accurate. apple in its statement in april said in some cases we're talking about cell towers 100 miles away. he said jack, maybe in rural areas but in urban areas were talking quite pinpointed actually. that's the concern. now, again, apple and others would say yes, but people want the services how are they going to get the services if we don't know whether or. but then there's concern, people are would. apple says we don't talk or customers but there's information out to do such a thing if someone wanted to. that's a concern. >> host: you were referring to an independent consultant, telecommunications consultant. and here is what he had to say basically what you just said, here's the clip. >> tell me whose location data is accurate?
is it anonymous? can't be tied back to individual users? >> thank you, sir. i think that's a great question. so yeah, in many cases the location, this data refers to is actually the location of your device or someone near it. while it is true that in some rural areas this can be up to 100 miles away. in price for the average customer or the average consumer is actually much closer. in the order of about 100 feet of according to a developer of the technology, skyhook. if you refer to figure three of my testimony, you can see an example of this location as identified by one of these wi-fi geolocation databases. i took my location based on gps and my location based on the strongest nearby wi-fi signal. in the senate lobby just out here. and the dot on the left refers to my location as determined by exact gps.
the dot on the right determines my location based on this wi-fi, this wi-fi geolocation. technology, it was about 20 feet from where i was sitting on the bench. depend on how you want to slice it i would consider that my location. the files in the database contain timestamps that describe at what point i encountered some of these access points so they can be used to trace a trail about you. >> host: what are timestamps? >> guest: i think what timestamps are, they basically show where the phone was at a particular time. so a person could use that to find out where you were now. someone that might be interested in that, law enforcement. law enforcement purposes for purposes came up in hearing as we'll. law enforcement might use that to find out let's say they were pursuing a criminal to see where that phone was at a given time. this a jewish or holding the phone and i swear it was. >> host: poker become is this
big business for the cell phone manufacturers? tracking ability. >> guest: not really for the manufacturers as much. they make the full. the big business, the carriers make a lot of money. some of these applications, the phones have the capability and some of the applications are marketed through the carrier, and others, the carriers and cell phone makers have these apps and you can go and buy these apps and then they get a cut of those. so there's a lot of money being taken by the app stores because a lot of money being made by some of the carriers as well as the people who make the operations, the operating systems. it was interesting come here one of the witnesses talk about the market for apps is growing so much come a this is the president of the association for competitive technology, and he pointed out the market basically as a couple billion dollars now but it could go up to like $50 billion in not too many years. that's how much the apps market
-- the chairman of the sec, chairman genachowski points out just a few years ago, it was insane at the store the other hundreds of thousands of apps for instance, in apple stores. so it's just exploded. >> host: did anyone to send the practice of you tracking on the cell phones? and can you turn them off? >> guest: there's a lot of discussion about turning them off. both apple and google said you can -- first of all, they are saying that you have to give your consent to turn on but yes, they both said to turn it off relatively easily, that tracking capability. and again, they don't like the were tracking because that makes like you're tracking your movements for some purpose. but they did talk as did others about people want these applications. they're not being forced to download these applications. they are painfully. whether it is gps or applications that allow persons to know where their kid is, or if it's applications for coupons or things like that for stores. they are very popular
applications time when google was also represented by alan davidson, director of public policy. here's a bit of what he had to say. >> here's how it works. when i first took my android phone out of its box, where the initial screens i saw asked me in plain language to affirmatively choose whether or not to share location information with google. a screenshot of this process is included in our test one and on the board over here. if the user doesn't choose to turn it on that set up or doesn't go into the settings later to turn it on, the phone will not send any information back to google's location service. if they opt in, the user opts in, all location data that is sent back to google's location servers is anonymized and is not traceable to specific user or device. users can later change their mind and turned it off. beyond this we require every third party application to notify users that will be accessing location information
before the user installs the app. the user has the opportunity to cancel the installation if they don't want information collected. we believe that this approach is essential for location services. highly transparent information for users about what is being collected, opt in choice before the location information is collected, and high security standards to anonymize and protect information. our hope is this becomes a standard for the broader industry. we are doing all this because of our belief in the importance of location-based services. many of you already expressed the benefit of these services. singh real-time traffic, transit map, find the closest gas station, on your car's gps. it's not just about convenience. these services can be lifesavers. mobile location service can help find the nearest hospital or police station. they can let you know where to fill a prescription at one in the morning for a sick child. we've only scratched the surface of what is possible. for example, google is working
with the national center for missing and exploited children to explore how to deliver amber alert about missing children to those in the vicinity. and mobile services may soon be able to tell people in the path of a tornado or a tsunami or guided in an evacuation in the event of a hurricane. >> mr. kirby. >> guest: there aren't a lot of safety applications for these, and the representative of the department of justice pointed out that it can be used while senator franken talked about the stock in things like that, domestic violence, the concern would be that someone wants to do harm to some wife or husband, someone like that can use. the technology can also be used to find is people who might be doing the stalking of the department of justice person put it. there are a lot of applications that can be helpful. of course, location accuracy is used by 911 services. it is assumed you don't have to give your permission for that to be used for that, but the
location, the location of your phone is important in terms of if you have an emergency you can call 911 trend what paul kirby, can you opt in and opt out at will? >> guest: it depends. for instance, apple at the hearing said they have an opt out policy. basically you can opt out of -- basically it will be collected unless you opt out. alan davidson said it is opt in. so he said google's is opt in. so it will not be collected unless you opt in to it being collected. however, there other issues and that is some senators pointed out, how secure is the database being used. apple said recently that basically a bug in the system and they said that even when you had your phone off, in the background even if you didn't have location on, information is being collected. they said you can download a patch that will take care of it. however, the information that is on your device is not encrypted.
they said that when they do their next major update other operating system that information will be encrypted. some members of congress have said so you're making some progress, but there's a lot of these questions still, even if a person gives consent and if a person knows what it is being used for how secure is information? and the other concern of the justice department, hacking and cyber hacking. my information is being sold and i didn't know about that basically it's one big world of a pc and the mobile device. one big internet if you will. >> host: what does it say that this has been known in a sense for a while and congress is just kind of hearing about it? >> guest: i think it is because apps are something now. up until about five years ago, most of the revenues were coming from voice. now basically a third of the revenues are coming in from data and that will only increase. your program and others have
done things -- part of the religious spectrum crunch of going to the fcc and others is because people using all these data applications. so i think it is because the app world has exploded, it will be inevitable, if you will. and smart phones, smart phones use be part, they were very expensive, they were used by kind of the higher end market. now, the projections show that more than half, while over half of people will have smart phones. and, you know, these days almost everyone seems to have a smart phones. >> host: senator coburn is the ranking member on the judiciary subcommittee of privacy technology and here's part of his opening statement. >> i think we need to be very careful on this idea of security because the greatest example i know is we spend $64 billion a year on i.t. and the federal government. and then on a top of that, we spend tens of billions on
security. so we should not be requesting the standards that we cannot even live up to at the federal government here, the concern is an accurate one, but i think will have to work on what that standard would be, whether it is a good faith effort are something. but to say somebody is liable for breach of the security point, when we all know, almost every system in the world can be breached today, we need to be careful with how far we carried out. >> guest: the reaction, he was talking to the federal trade commission and department of justice representatives. the reaction was no one is saying, is a lesser perfect basically you reliable. is no perfection in the cyber world. but they said there has to be some standard we have to take reasonable measures to protect the data. and then if you don't take those measures then they are saying there could be some sort of liability. some of us go farther. senator blumenthal is at the hearing and you said you should also have a private right of
action. senator coburn has noted -- so there might be some of that into a. he also said in that hearing in his opening comment which was interesting, he said we need a whole lot more information and i was before you come to conclusions about what should or needs to be done. so he's a lot more hesitant if you will do say we need some legislation and we need it now, unlike the democrats on the down trend what is this a partisan issue? >> guest: i would say democrats are much more eager to move forward. i wouldn't say it is necessary partisan. there were no other republicans there. so, it's not -- in the house, certainly republicans and democrats have expressed concern. have expressed concerns about location-based data and how it is being collected. 's i guess i would say no, it's not partisan. i guess i to its mems of both parties are concerned about. >> host: are the future hearings on this scheduled?
tried to i think there are. i think we can expect future. senator franken has not said when they will be a hearing, you know, whether he will have another hearing. in the house, there's been a lot of letters back and forth on the issues. i mean, i think we can probably expect hearings in both houses this year. >> host: was there any talk, paul kirby, about the shape of any legislation that can come from that? >> guest: one of the issues and the other thing we're waiting for is the obama administration is coming forth with the cyber plan. the department of justice set up in and they said another recent hearing that that will involve, who have location-based technology aspects to. it will also data breach aspects to it. so there's that. senator leahy mentioned he wants to update the electronic privacy key mutations act and he wants to do that in fairly short order. so i mean, there's several things floating around if you will that can be expected. there are some broader data
breach legislation that's been introduced that has been introduced in the past as well. again, those are broader pieces but certainly location-based and mobile could be part of those. >> host: is there the mood in congress to pass this? >> guest: the mood is, the mood is the deficit and the mood is some of the partisan things going on between congress and the white house and national security and things like that. next year is an election year so it's always hard. as we get closer and closer so i don't like to predict what they may do, certainly it's a hot topic. >> host: and finally do see a lot of pushback from the apples and the googles of the world? >> guest: don't forget we also have the carries to the carriers were sent letters by the house energy and commerce committee saying what are you doing and what is your role in this? their response was, well, when we send the ads outcome if we have something to do with the apps we make sure there is consent. guess what?
we don't have control over all the things people download onto their phones. so, so i guess there's pushback but i think, i think some people realize, some of the companies realize that there is a need for some sort of framework anyway. one thing about the legislation, there's a loss in 40 states but no national framework. and, of course, some countries when you're 40 states or 50 state laws there's a concerns there's too many laws to have to follow. so there are companies that have said look, we need some sort of reasonable framework so people will have confidence in the data that goes over the internet drama paul kirby is a senior editor with telecommunications reports. thank you for helping us to frame this phone tracking hearing that was held this week. by the way, if you watched the entire hearing, you can go to c-span.org and search our video library. it is readily available and you can watch it for free. joining us now on the phone is
amy of "the wall street journal." she broke a story this week on meredith atwell baker. what was the store you broke commack she is leading the sec in june to join comcast the comcast d.c. office to be senior vice president of government relations. >> guest: was this a surprise >> caller: a lot of folks thought that she would be renominated for the agency. had only been there for two years. although she had been at ntia for a number of years. but i think this was his prize. >> host: whether any conflicts of interest in the last couple of months that people should be aware of? >> caller: four months ago she did, in fact, vote for comcast $13.75 billion deal to acquire nbc universal. so that is something that is raising eyebrows around town. although, it's not illegal for her to go there and obviously lobbying rules would be in pla place. this kind of revolving door
happens in d.c. a lot. this is another example of it. >> host: so a former head of the ncta is the chief of the comcast washington bureau, correct, and not have meredith atwell baker. to that any strong democrats as well on their staff in washington? >> caller: they do. comcast has hired a variety of folks on both parties but it's a very bipartisan office. they do have a number of democrats. they're brought over from agency, former staffers for commissioners and others. so it's actually one of the offices in 10 which is really is known for being very bipartisan. they have a good selection on both sides. >> host: amy schatz can you tell me how you found out? >> caller: i really can't. >> host: who might be her replacement? audit data is there any word out there yet? >> caller: no one had been talking about her bleeding so no names have been floated yet. although i am sure within days
will have plenty of people floating names out there. obviously, this is something that we already a democratic seat opening up with michael cox leaving by the end of year. and folks are talking of a possible replacement. some other names are in the mix. so this might be something that moves that nomination forward because you're both republican and the democratic seat to fill. >> host: amy schatz thank serving on "the communicators." >> caller: thank you.
>> industry and government leaders talk about the increasing challenges they face in protecting information. this live forum gets underway at 10:30 a.m. eastern on our companion network c-span. >> as president of the catholic university of america, i'm pleased to confirm upon you oni my degree for which you havepre been presented. as p recommended by the presidet and authorized by the board of
trustees. congratulations, mr. speaker. ba [applause] [cheers and applause] >> president darby, thank you for that warm welcome. i don't know about you but i began my day today by counting my blessings. my wife, my two daughters, might 11 brothers and sisters.nd the great country that we live in, and the privilege that you've all given me and allowine me to address catholic
universities class of 2011.thisy this university has stood over the years and stands today stant the center of catholic intellectual life in america. i am a loyal alumni of xavier university, another great catholic university, but being here today with your new president, the cardinal, and the distinguished faculty and trustees, let me say how impressed i am with the continued growth and success of this institution and i am truly humbled to take part in this ceremony today. it has a long time since the cardinal came to washington, as the archbishop. i was very proud when he became one of the brand new cardinals. for those of you who may have gotten wet while you were
waiting, you should know something about the cardinal. the red cape is a custom-made raincoat of the appropriate color. you only tease the one s you love. -- ones you love. i was here having mass, and pondering the power and glorrry of the blessed mother. i felt the tongue of a memory before i went to xavier. the coach made certain that we earned every bit of the school nickname, the crusaders. there is no difference between
church and the football field. he would tell us at certain times, that life is a precious gift from god, and making the most of one's life is a direct form of devotion to the virgin mary. we would kneel down and pray before every meeting. before every practice and on game day, we would pray all along. then we would go out and play the other team all in the name of the blessed mother. this gives you an idea of what kind of guy that he was. this was the basis for a lesson that he taught us, and one i have been repeating ever since. there is nothing in this slide you cannot achieve if you are willing to make the necessary sacrifices to succeed.
i believe that if you maintain this mindset, you can accomplish anything. we live in america. a land of hope and opportunity and freedom. [applause] this is a country where you can be anything that you want. this is an advantage that any of you would have. this is prepared you in a way that no other institution can prepare you. we have been getting it to grapple with who you want to be rather than what. you have been challenged to think rationally, to guide your words and actions. let me tell you, there is no app
for these skills. to whom much is given, much is expected. you must make the necessary sacrifices to succeed. but what does this entail? first, i think that this is humility. if you remember one word that that i have said that, this is, humility. growing up with 11 brothers and sisters, i have learned that no one succeeds in life by themselves. he must be willing to lean on others, to listen to others and to love others. tony snow, the former white house press secretary lost his life to cancer. he stood here in 2007 and he told the class -- love this.
knowledge that life is not about you. he said, i want for you to remember this. this is a hard lesson and a lot of people go through life without learning this. this is to submit willingly to the things that matter. i think his wisdom is timeless. one of the students asked me prepared question a couple of weeks ago. he asked me, what prayer you see before you go to a meeting at the white house with the president? i asked god for the courage and wisdom to do his will and not mine. serving others is not just how high lead in congress until i leave my life.
you also need some patients along the way. this is not a word you associate with this, but this is how you come closer to knowing the will of god. after xavier, i was operating a small business that got me more involved in my community and i stumbled into politics. this is not something i thought i would do when i was sitting where you are today. this is who you want to be that determines what you want to be. i came to congress in 1991 and found myself being called a rising star. it was heavy stuff. but then in the fall of 1998, i lost the support of my colleagues and i lost my post of
leadership. i would love to tell you that i just moved on, but it would not be true. the truth is that i was devastated. i was down but never out. because nobody ever lives the life all the way up except bullfighters. i told my staff that we were going to earn the way back. i would like this speak for itself and i was going to be patient. emily and patients are supported by faith. in your journey through life, this will be your constant partner if you let it be. i have been back in the leadership of my party for five years now.
like any commitment, this required some soul-searching. in the morning of the leadership election, i have the opportunity to be elected majority leader. the question kept coming to me, where really want to do this. am i ready to do this? i am struggling with this. dismasting the blessed mother for guidance, finding no answers. the having breakfast, myself on writing. i was outside the steiner. this was the old coach. he was calling to wish me luck and telling me that i could do it. i never got a --
call from the blessed mother. i will tell you, this was very close. the journalist asked mother teresa how she dealt with all the things that she had seen. she said, but did not comment to be successful, he called for me to be faithful. over the years, i carried a similar code that my parents taught me. if you do the right things for the right reasons, but things will happen. humility, patience, and faith. that always a few tears from me.
these virtues will take u.s. for as you want to go. and these are some of life's lessons. you have to learn if you on your own. when you do, do not wait to share them. the years go by quickly. looking back on life, for a court said that if he could travel back to when he was 20, he would take himself out for pint, the potato, and a stake. he went on to say that he would give himself a good talking to. straight up, stop mumbling. i will only add, just relax, and be on time. i began here by reflecting on my blessings for all the things i am thankful for. but you may notice something
about the list. the good things in life are not things. they are people and values, so that when this is all said and done, we're doing god's work on earth, and putting this the best way, remember, you are dust, and your dust -- and to dust you will return. god bless you and good luck, and congratulations to each and everyone of you.
from nasa on the space shuttle endeavour which blasted off at 8:56 this morning. >> aos, and it's about a nine-minute window. >> that briefing is expected to get under way at 10:15 eastern, we're now learning. we'll bring that to you live when it starts. right now pictures of the shuttle launch that took place at 8:56. we'll watch this as it counts down and blasts off. >> t-minus 31 seconds, and the handoff has occurred. >> 25. 20. >> firing chain is armed. pressure water system is armed. total remaining to start: eight, seven, six, four, three, two --
zero and liftoff for the final launch of endeavour, expanding our knowledge, expanding our lives in be space. >> houston, endeavor. all programs. >> roger roll, endeavour. >> houston is now controlling, endeavour beginning to roll over onto it back, the roll program underway as endeavour begins the heads-down position on course for a 51.6 degree, 136x36 statue mile orbit. >> three engines now throttling down as endeavour passes through the area of maximum dynamic pressure on the vehicle in the lower atmosphere. approaching one minute in to the flight.
>> endeavour, go at throttle up. >> roger. go at throttle up. >> endeavour's three main engines now back at full throttle. all three engines in good shape. endeavour's already traveling 1300 miles per hour. finish at an altitude of 11 miles down range from the kennedy space center, now 12 miles. at liftoff endeavour fully fueled weighed four-and-a-half million pounds, it's already lost half that weight in propellant, now burns that weight. next event is burnout and separation of the twin solid rocket boosters, that upcoming here shortly at the 2:03 point. those boosters are burning 11,000 pounds of fuel per second.
and standing by for separation of the solid rocket boosters. the onboard guidance system has done its job of settling out any dispersions introduced at booster separation. the orbiter's now traveling 2,300 miles per hour down range 50 miles, altitude 37 miles. all systems in good shape. three good hydraulic systems, auxiliary power units and fuel cells. the fuel cells providing electrical power to all of the systems. >> roger, two engines. >> endeavour can reach a site in the event of a single-engine failure, however, all three are in good shape. space shuttle endeavour sailing into fair winds on its final
historic voyage. this view looking down the external fuel tank, the orbiter there on the top asmen differ continues to power its way into orbit, traveling 4,000 miles downwind. altitude, 50 miles, 3:15 in to the flight. >> all three main engines still looking in good shape. hydraulic systems and electrical systems onboard the orbiter. >> endeavour, negative return.
>> roger. negative return. >> endeavour can no longer return to the kennedy space center in the event of an engine failure now, but all three are still in good shape as are all of the other systems aboard the orbiter. quiet here in mission control as a team of flight controllers watches over all of the systems. 4:20 in to the flight, endeavour's traveling 5500 miles per hour. altitude now 63 miles, traveling down range 186 miles or about 335,000 feet in altitude. environmental and control systems officer here reporting a good flash of operate system providing cooling to all of the avionics equipment aboard the vehicle. traveling into space on the forward flight deck is commander mark kelly. flight engineer roberto i have torrey and rounding out the crew
is mike fink. >> roger, press to ato. >> endeavour can reach orbit on two engines. should one fail at this point, however, all three are still performing as planned. down on the mid deck of endeavour, greg feustel. feustel headed to the international space station for the first time, vittori and fincke making their first visit aboard endeavour after flying aboard soyuz for the fist mission. >> endeavour, single engine ops 3. >> roger. >> that call indicates that endeavour could reach a transatlantic abort site on one engine if it lost two of the three although all three are still in good shape, 5:50 in to the flight.
>> endeavour, single engine, 104. >> roger, single engine 104. >> several calls there, endeavour can reach a safe orbit on two engines now. the guidance system is controlling the engines to roll endeavour to a heads-up position to optimize the air-to-ground communications through the satellite network. flight controllers reporting to flight director richard jones they're in good shape. >> setdown plan is nominal. >> copy. setdown plan is nominal. >> so, mark, you're go to plus x, go the pitch. >> roger. go for the plus x, go for the pitch. >> endeavour, single engine press 104.
>> roger. single engine press 104. >> endeavour can reach orbit on one engine should two fail, however, all three are in good shape. the three main engines are flowing fuel through their power systems at a rate equivalent to draining an average backyard swimming pool in 25 seconds. 7:20 in to the flight, altitude 64 miles down range from the kennedy space center, 630 miles. endeavour's traveling 13,500 miles per hour. we're now seeing throttling on the three main engines to maintain the 3g or three times gravity load on the vehicle and the crew. engines at 82% of rated thrust,
eight minutes in to the flight. the next activity is the main engine cutoff. that's expected to be commanded in 21 seconds. >> and main engine cutoff has been confirmed. dynamics reporting a nominal main engine cutoff. and separation from the external talking tank. endeavour's commander, mark kelly, now firing the thruster
jets to position the orbiter for photography of the external tank. >> we did see a nominal mico, holmes one is not -- [inaudible] >> copy, nominal m irk co not required. >> the pitch-up maneuver will allow for some photographer my of the expersonal tank as -- external tank as it falls away from the orbiter to capture images for the imagery analysis team to evaluate any loss of foam from the tank during the launch phase of the vehicle. the residual items floating away there typically particles of ice that accumulated on the back end of the orbiter during the tanking process while it was sitting on the launch pad. by all indications, all of the flight control team here in
mission control reporting normal as scent calls all the way uphill from this early standpoint with no issues at all with any of the systems aboard endeavour on the way into space. endeavour now safely is in to space. the next big activity will be the orbit alma neuroing system engine burn to more circularize endeavour's orbit. currently, the vehicle's in a 136x36 statue mile orbit, very highly elliptical, and that will be refined here in the next 30 minutes to more circularize the orbit on its way to the international space station. that linkup with the iss scheduled for early wednesday morning, about 6:15 in the morning is the current targeted docking time of endeavour to the iss. again, a fairly routine ascent.
all of the calls to the flight director all the way uphill were fairly routine. there were no anomalies discussed whatsoever on the way uphill during today's launch. they're looking at richard jones in the middle there. he is the ascent flight director for sts-134. barry wilmore in the near view serving as the spacecraft communicator. lee archenbow sitting down there served as the interface for weather reconnaissance with astronaut rick sturko who was flying absolute l training -- shuttle training aircraft evaluating weather, and at the top of the picture is tony, he served as the weather flight director, and he also will be back 14 days from now serving as the entry flight director for
endeavour's final return home at the end of this mission. [no audio] >> the final launch of shuttle endeavour making history and lifting off without a hitch this morning at 8:56 eastern. going live, now, to a postlaunch briefing from the kennedy space center. this is courtesy of nasa tv. it just got underway. >> good morning. >> michelle tonini, head of the european astronaut center. mike moses, he's our shuttle launch integration manager and
chairman of the prelaunch management team. >> good morning. >> and mike leinbach, shuttle launch director. >> good morning, everybody. >> we'll be happy to take your questions after we begin with opening comments. >> thanks, mike. it's great to be here, and i can't thank the team that got this vehicle ready to fly enough for all the work they've done. it was tremendous to see the launch today, to see the countdown go as smoothly as it did. the ap heater problem, the team's really worked hard to get through that and get that behind us and understand what the problem was, and that was no problem to us at all during the count. the count was very smooth throughout the day, and mike and michael will talk to you more about the count, but it went extremely well. the vehicle looked very good going uphill. we had a little thing on the center main engine, a measurement that's used to calculate some offline performance. it went out of calibration or went out of range and then went
back in and worked fine the rest of the way. it wouldn't have been a concern to us. we saw a couple little foam events on the external tank, we saw two small losses just prior to the aerodynamic sensitive time, that's when we're worried about foam coming off the tank and potentially having enough velocity to damage the orbiter. those were very small losses, they didn't look like they went anywhere near the orbiter, they were very small and looked pretty benign. we had two, two losses very late on the tank, around 5:12 and 5:39. and, again, those looked like they were no problem to us at all. so the tank performance was probably better than i expected. we knew we didn't make some modifications to some of the ice process ramps, so we expected to see more losses to those regions late in the flow. we didn't see them. we'll get the images from the umbilical well, and then we can talk more defin tyly about -- definitively about how well the tank performed, but it looked
pretty good from the initial video we saw. so, again, i want to thank the team for all the efforts they put in, to keep their heads down, to stay focus today make this launch a success. the mission in front of us is no easy mission. we're going to have the soyuz on dock in the middle of the mission which will make it tougher for the teams to plan around and work that. the sleep shifting and the two crews will be a challenge for the folks on orbit, but they've got a good plan in place. it'll be excited to see the ams get installed and get ready to start taking some real research data for the iss. again, thank toss the team and all the folks who made this launch happen. michele? >> a lot has been made about this launch, it has been delayed, but very successful today. this flight bring to space very important payload, ams, and a very special crew because there is one astronaut from italy
nationality onboard this space shuttle. i think it's one of the first times that we send -- [inaudible] and this is the way to meet our objective which is to make the space station for great science, and this is what we prepare for because i just talked to -- [inaudible] one hour ago. we will have the results of ams right after the launch in a few days, and it is very important. this mission marks a very long cooperation between -- and nasa because when i look at the 24 missions made with nasa, i think 85 or 86 missions were made between nasa and isa, and it's really important to have experiment since the beginning with columbus and a big part of the space station made by european contribution.
so this cooperation successful will insure for the future of human exploration. we believe in it, and we would like to thank nasa to have allowed us to participate to so many missions. and also i have this morning talked to -- i have to express the thanks in flying of the space shuttle. all together it will be 24 -- [inaudible] very important time this week because at the same moment we will have orbit of italy, astronaut together on the space station during a few days before the landing of the mission on the 23rd of may. so, again, we show together our determination to succeed in a very complex endeavor with this mission with endeavour, and this is momentous for human
exploration. thank you. >> well, folks, it was a fantastic launch, a really great day for us. a good example of us watching the weather and getting right down to our flight rule and launch criteria limits, and you can see we don't have any flight rules that dictate how long you can see the launch before it goes out of sight. [laughter] apologize that the view wasn't the best, but the data we were looking at in the control center was absolutely perfect, and we weren't going to wait around any longer. we had the clouds where we needed them, so we went. so it was really good work by the team today. mike's launch team did fantastic. pretty straightforward countdown. we had a repeat of a problem in the ohm system and problem is a stretch condition that we knew about where we had to balance some pressures up, and we talked that and got that worked out. mike's team had a challenging yesterday with the high winds with the thruster covers coming off a few of the thrusters and discussing whether we were going to have rain overnight or not
and do we need to worry about it or not, and they made a really good call to kind of stare down the face of the clouds, and we didn't get any rain. really good weather forecasting from the cape weather side of the house with kathy winters. so we were in good shape today. and then, literally, it was kind of seeing how the weather was going to shape up. for a while it was looking great. when the sun came up, the deck started building fast and coming right at us, but it dissipated as the sun heated up the upper layers, and what you saw was a ceiling right around a little higher than 5,000 feet but not very thick which satisfies our rules both on the shuttle and range side for safety reasons, and we were able to launch today. um, and as bill said, you saw just a couple of issues on ascent, that was not anything the crew noticed, it was an internal measurement, and so now they're getting the ship ready to start orbit operations. it is going to be a challenging mission. this is now a 16-day-long mission, and the sleep shift
with 25 -- [inaudible] is one of those challenges. to give you some of the details, on flight day three, we'll be docking, and when we do that, the station crew will be going to sleep about two hours later than the shuttle crew. so they'll be going to bed a little bit later, therefore, waking up later. by the time we get to flight day seven which is eva2, the station crew will be sleeping in to the point where about an hour or two into the eva, the station crew will be waking up. and we've taken a look at that. they're going to be in their sleep stations with hearing protection on all kind of buttoned up. they won't notice the eva activity going on, and everything's fine. and then flight day eight is an off-duty day which we inserted specifically to allow the station crew. when the soyuz docks, they sleep shift about 12 hours one way. about three or four hours after undocking, they land, so they have a very long day to get ready, get up, undock and
immediately land. so they have to kind of sleep shift themselves back about a whole day, or a half day, i should say. so we'll put an off-duty day, and on flight day nine that'll be the soyuz undocking, and in that case the crew will be getting up and leaving about an hour before the shuttle crew getting up. basically, they're all within the two-hour overlap of each other sleeping in, getting up and in both crews' day we give them about two to two and a half hours of what we call presleep and postsleep where they're not scheduled for a lot of heavy activities. it's, literally, the getting ready for bed or waking up activities, getting breakfast, getting cleaned up and ready to start the day, gathering materials. so even though there's some overlap in the sleep periods, they're not going to be doing a lot of heavy activity in that overlap period. so, again, the teams were very comfortable with that timeline. before we dock, we'll be doing our flight day two inspections. on this mission we'll probably have some extra stuff to be looking for. if you've been drive driving
around the area, we've had an explosion in the love bug population. [laughter] and then on flight day three after docking the crew will get the robotics activities underway right away by installing the elc3 payload, flight day four we'll get ams started up. four evas, like bill mentioned, this mission, one of the objectives is to leave that system behind, so we'll do our inspection that we normally do after undocking on this mission. we'll do it while we're docked. and then there'll be an eva right after that to leave that boom on the station. and after we undock, we won't have the boom to do any inspections, but we'll have already cleared the orbiter for entry. so, again, an action-packed mission. the crews are going to be very, very busy, very challenging, but as has been said, i can't thank the teams enough. the team here in florida and the support teams around the country that got us through the apu heater problem, got us back on track and brought us to launch
today did an amazing job. we talked about et122's performance and how fantastic it was, and really wanted to take a second to reck these the two other propulse elements that we haven't been talking about a lot, the main engines and the solid rocket booster teams, those systems continue to perform just flawlessly, a really good testament to all the ground tests we do ahead of time in both those programs to really characterize and understand how we fly so that when we do fly, we know exactly what environment we're in. so a really excellent job by the entire program. so that's all i had. it was a good day, happy to be in orbit. >> okay. thanks, everybody. mostly, i would characterize the countdown as a very normal countdown for us. it was not problem-free, but what that allows is the team to work a few problems and get in sync and solve a couple problems along the way. one of the things you don't really like to have in a launch countdown for the shuttle program is a completely clean countdown. i know that may sound a little odd, but if there are no
problems in the countdown, you're sitting there waiting for the big problem to happen. and so that, obviously, didn't happen today. we had a couple little things to talk about, mike mentioned a coup couple of them. we had a tile issue on the side hatch, that got a lot of attention. but after the issue we had maybe two flights or so ago, we have a new process in place where we carry out a camera in there. it's the same camera used for crew strap-in that you guys watch, and we were good to get -- able to get a good zoomed-in picture. it was good to go. it got a lot of attention, but that was a minor repair, and it should perform perfectly fine. the countdown was great. one thing i get to do as the launch director is give an award at the end of the day, and today we gave to it the combined apu retest team. the head of the quality inspectors, the head of the orbital engineering representative and, of course, one from auxiliary power unit group.
and those four folks represented, literally, hundreds of people, thousands of people probably across the country that helped solve that problem, and so you get, you get to see the team work to their best today. it was an outstanding countdown, a lot of pats on the back down in the lobby of the lcc afterwards as we were eating our beans and cornbread. so it was just a good day. endeavour's on orbit safely and is going to perform a great mission, and we'll see her back here on june 1st. great day here at the kennedy space center and for the shuttle program. >> all right. we will take questions. we ask for you to, please, wait for the microphone. state your name and affiliation and to whom you're addressing your question, and we'll start here in the front row with seth bor nstein. >> for mike moses, two quick ones. first, on the sleep shifting, in terms of waking and disturbing the crews which is the greater
concern, the station crew being disturbed by the shuttle crew or the shuttle crew being disturbed by the station crew? and is there a time period that you're most worried -- i mean, a certain day or task, you know, that you're leading up to or poise si task that you think -- noisy task that you think will be the issue? and the second one for either of the two mikes, do you remember a time when there was such a low view, i counted 22 seconds? >> let's see, on the sleep shifts, no, no specific concerns. the toughest day in terms of making sure we're staying out of each other's way is going to be flight day seven -- i'm sorry, flight day eight, which will be the day before we undock. both crews will have off duty, so they won't have a lot of reasons to go banging around making noise. but in general, the shuttle crew doesn't just stay in the shut and close the door and not come out. some of them sleep on the station side. station's pretty big now.
in node two which is the first node right there, the u.s. segment crew on station right now, palolo and katie coleman, have their sleep stations. so they'll be in their sleep stations right there, and you have to pass through node two to get to the air lock to get to the robotic workstations, so the shuttle crew will have to pass through the area, but they'll basically, literally, be transitioning past. and then it's noisy enough in the background, kind of like if you're use today the background noise already -- used to the background noise already when you're sleeping, you're not going to notice too much difference. the crew uses ear plugs, and they're buttoned up in their station. they don't think they're going to have any problems. so no specific concerns. with a two-hour overlap, that's manageable. if it was going to be more like four hours, that would be rather tricky because you're impacting a fair bit of the workday, but this one's not going to be too bad. if i was going to pick one day that's going to be tough, it's the day we added a whole day
just to do nothing which is the day before the undock, so we made that a down day to help alleviate that problem. >> el well, let's see. relative to the low clouds, this was one of the quickest disappearances to the shuttle that i've experienced. but we have the rules in place for valid engineering reasons and range safety reasons, and since the clouds were so low this time, i can almost guarantee that you'll see it lands longer for sts-135. [laughter] >> right here on the front row. >> randy steigel for bill. bill, this is really going to be the last part of the space station that the u.s. is building. what are your thoughts concerning the fact that we're going to have a completed station, and also what about the fly about? how do we stand with that? >> okay. in terms of station completion, i think it's really nice to see the ams get taken up on this flight. this is a really, as michel
said, a world class instrument that's been built to go take a look at dark matter, antimatter, those kind of things. and it fits very well with the space station. space station can store a lot of data, return the data to the ground. so i think this is a pretty special way to kind of cap this sequence of flights to bring the ams up on this flight of endeavour. so i think that's, that's pretty exciting, and a good way to kind of go forward. and then the other question is the fly about. what we're doing now is we'll have the teams take a look at the undock sequence, and the russians will provide us what the profile will be for the fly about. and then the station team will take a look at that fly about and make sure that that all looks fine. we think it will. we'll let the mission management team that's actually managing the mission make the decision about whether that fly about occurs and when it occurs and how it's done. they'll do that through their normal processes. so the first thing was for us to get launched. you know, we'll get docked to
station, then they'll see how the missions are going, the eva activities are going. we'll get the proposal of the technical details of the fly around. the station teams will evaluate that, provide a recommendation back to the mission management team, and then they'll decide officially to go ahead and add that fly about to the mission. >> chris. >> chris gephardt with nasa space flight.com. words almost can't describe how beautiful that was this morning, but i think talking about in terms of what the teams have done in the past couple weeks is the best way to do that, so thank you. a couple quick questions. the first relating to the right olms pressure. was it identical to what you saw on the first attempt back on april 29th, and if so, why did this one also require a waiver if it was a known condition? and can you also talk a little bit more, if possible, about the main engine sensor and what exactly that was monitoring and what it did during flight? >> sure.
so the olms condition is, basically, we have two separate limits on that tank that we're monitoring. one is the total pressure in the tank. you want to make sure it doesn't get so high that it would activate the relief valve which is protected by a burst disk. the burst disk would be the first thing to go, and then the relief valve would open up so you don't overpressurize that tank. the other thing you're trying to protect is the tank pressure isn't too far apart. these are pressure-fed engines in the olms system, so when they initially start up, you don't want one at a higher pressure kind of pushing the come bulge off to one side or the other. so there's a delta limit between the two tanks, a delta pressure limit. on top of all that, we protect for instrumentation error, and, in fact, it's pretty big. so it's multiple. the problem we had last launch attempt was due to some
regulator creep. the regulators and the valves naturally leak helium just a little bit. in this case it's a little bit more, but it's still within spec. the ox tanks have a set of valve that close those off where the fuel tanks don't. that further gets exasperated when we have a full load of olms, and this is a little fuller than normal. there's not a lot of pressure in the tank to absorb that pressure delta, so you see the pressure go up pretty high. and then one more thing is that the oxidizer likes to absorb helium and, therefore, it drops pressure. so you have the fuel pressure going up and the ox kaiser pressure -- oxidizer pressure going down naturally. and they got close to that 15 psi delta limit. the reality is the device on this tank were 1.5 psi, not 15, so if you added that in, you could say we weren't anywhere near our true limits, but by the letter of the law, the lcc
requires you to not to count on that, so we went ahead and talked about it. on the first launch attempt the easy thing to do was to tie the right tank to the left tank, brought the numbers within limits. because we kid that last time -- did that last time, there wasn't as much room to do that because we had already balanced those tanks up. so we had the waiver ready to go because we knew we wouldn't be able to get them within limits, and that's exactly what happened. they went to 16 psi delta instead of 14 last time, again, knowing that the true delta was perfectly within limits. the waiver said if you account for instrumentation error, you don't have to worry about it. and then we added testing that shows the true limit is somewhere in the 30 psi limit, not 15. longwinded story to say we basically did lots of homework to protect us from the letter of the law that said you've got to be careful not to launch there, made sure we understood it before we went. on the center main engine, it was a low pressure -- on the low
pressure fuel turbo pump, one of the discharge outlet pressures, there's two of them, an a and a b channel. the b channel dropped off, so it basically dropped out for a couple milliseconds and then came back, but that was enough for the onboard fault detection system to say i don't trust you anymore, i'm throwing you out of the equation, so we got a ground fault on the ground, nothing to the crew or anything like that. that pressure goes into an internal calculation that's basically measuring the density and flow rate toss try to calculate an internal flow. if we would have lost the other one, it would have faulted down to a default measurement, and it's really just an -- i don't want to say after the fact data calculation, but it's not used in any realtime performance in the engine, it's just a -- it's not even a health monitoring system either. it's just a data point that we gather on engine operation. >> robert? >> hi, robert perlman with collect space.com with a question for mike leinbach. since you mentioned presenting
an award, were you presented anything by the closeout crew as you were on the last flight of discovery, and what have you done, if anything, to mark last flight of endeavour with your launch team? thanks. >> well, i was honored with the endeavour side hatch emblem, the main emblem on the side hatch signed by both the flight crew and the closeout crew, and so that's two out of the three, i guess you could say. that was a very nice surprise. and the closeout crew named me an honorary member of the closeout team today. they gave me a little plaque with a patch. and, you know, i know those guys pretty well, and travis thompson came in the room and gave me both items. that was really special to be recognized like that as a member of their team, that meant a lot. i'll cherish that forever. you know, the final flight's the final flight of endeavour, we're going to wait for her to come home, and then we'll celebrate in some special way. but today was all about getting the countdown right, getting mark and his crew on orbit
safely, and we did that, and we're proud of that. >> jim see get, celebration independent newspaper. two questions, perhaps for mike and mike. first of all, could you talk a little bit more about the weather condition at time of launch, and how close a call was it in terms of if it had been 30 seconds earlier or later, was it a cloud situation or other factors? could that have eliminated the possibility of a launch today? and then my other question has to do with adding two additional days to this. to this flight. does that mean that there's less margin at the end of the flight in case landing conditions aren't right? would you have to make some other decisions or decision criteria for deciding whether to land or not at the end of the flight? is thank thank -- thank you. >> let's see, it was never observed no-go, so the rts
landing forecast was always a go forecast. they did amend it, the initial forecast just called for a few cloud or a scattered deck, rather, sorry, at 3500 feet. so they amended that to put the deck scattered up at 5,000 as well, but that's a go forecast. and same thing with the range weather, it's the same they're looking for -- in this case it's a 6,000-foot deck or a 4,000-foot deck with clouds less than 500 feet thick. and we never dropped below our 5,000 limits for rts or any of the range limits. we had our weather recon aircraft up flown by c.j., a good 30 minutes out. he was able to characterize the patterns he'd been seeing all day long and able to give us the go well early that nothing out of the ordinary, so he moved off to his orbit position. the forecast held true to the observations, as did kathy winters' forecast at the launch pad. this was not a close one on the
weather, it was well within limits, and it wasn't really moving on us. really what it was going to come down to was that thick band right around launch time. it was going to a go -- going to be a go, but it would limit ability to see as it ended up doing. on the mission, we always carry a plus two to be able to handle any weather for landing. in this case the extra plus two that we added were two extra days by having extra o2 onboard. we had originally planned to offload some of the oxygen which we use in our fuel cells to generate power for the shuttle. as we got closer to actual launch day, we were able to look at the actual weights of payloads, the actual weather conditions of the day, the temperatures that the boosters would be out and discovered we had a little more ascent performance margin, so we elected to take that into extra days. so instead of taking the o2 off to be less weight, we decided we
could launch with more weight, so we left that extra o2 in the ship which allowed us extra days on orbit. we were at a 14-day mission, two extra energy days days and two a weather days, so we turned those energy days into plan days. >> i just might add a little bit to the weather discussion too. you know, for the launch weather side of it there are really two categories of launch weather commit criteria. one is for the shuttle program it, and one is for range safety. and the range safety piece of it allows a forward observer in an aircraft -- and today we had that observer north of the pad which makes sense which way the clouds were going -- and as long as they can verify they have good visibility, then if something goes wrong, they can radio back to the range safety officer to take the right action. that's permitted by the rules, we do it often, and it worked just beautifully today. just by way of example, i forget the mission number, but it was three or four years or so again,
i believe it was, we scrubbed for a cloud deck that was 600 feet thick. today we were 500 feet, so we were exactly right on the criteria, and we were good to go. if we'd been another 100 or 200 feet thick, we'd still be on the ground. and so the process works extremely well. we practice it, and today it worked out very, very well for us. >> sir? >> clara for space.com. and my question is now that this mission has launched, can you tell us the latest thinking and what kind of considerations you're going to have to weigh to arrive at a launch date for 135? >> yeah, take that one? >> okay. >> yeah. like we've been telling you, we kind of have to wait and see. we want to be specific since it's our last one, so we're going to evaluate the damage on the pad and see what it takes to turn that around. we basically expect this week to be able to get that assessment,
finalize what we've been looking at and narrow that down to an exact launch date. we're falling in the middle of that second week in july there's a delta launch on the range on the 14th. we've got to talk to them, see if they're having any troubles that they might be moving. we want to be able to plan ahead if we can at this point although a and a half out on the range is never really planning ahead. but we'll give it a try this week and see what we get. i suspect we'll pick a date by the end of the week or early next week. >> yeah. and we'll probably watch a little bit of orbiter performance and see if we see anything that makes us question what we're going to do for the next launch. so maybe the end of this week, maybe next week weal set the date after -- we'll set the date after we work the parameters. >> over here. sirius xm satellite radio for mike, give us a postlaunch report, if you will, on that apu circuit, anything anomalous there? and if not, does that give you increased confidence that the
damaged insulation might have been the culprit? >> well, let's see, we went through our troubleshooting program as we proposed prelaunch where we swap, we came up on the b side heaters which were the ones that had the problem before. this was after we got into stable replenish on the external tanks, so it was about as cold as it was going to get. that worked fine. we switched over to the a side which worked fine last countdown and worked fine again today, and we swapped back to b, and we launch inside b. we went through our process, and everything checked out just to the letter of the law. so does it prove that that was that little open on the back of the connector? not quite sure. probably never exactly know. but we know we fixed it, and it works perfectly fine today. >> back here. >> hi. evan brown, fox news radio for mr. gerstenmaier. this is the second to final mission for one of the orbiters. we had discovery already.
is it any easier this time around for you guys emotionally? last time we actually saw little tears here and there, but is it -- since you've been through one of these final missions already, is it any easier on you? >> you said your name -- he said your name first. [laughter] >> i would say, no. in simple words. i think the thing that's the real tribute is i've really challenged the team and challenged all of us to treat each one of these mixes as much as -- missions as much as we can just with like a regular mission. so our job is to look at the flight rules, look at our proceed juries -- procedures, everything we do i want it to feel like this isn't the last mission, but this is one of many missions to go forward. so i've been challenging the teams to do that, and they've done a tremendous job of being able to stay focused, to watch what's going on and to be the true experts that really make this look a lot easier than it really is. so, again, i think the thing that i feel is i feel a real,
real privilege to be considered part of this team that has pulled this off. because what you've seen today was not easy. you know, it's not easy for us to get this vehicle ready to go fly. it wasn't easy to find the problem with the apu and to be meticulous and to slowly work through that problem and to take the time that it needed to get it worked. you know, we worked the issues during the count in a very methodical manner, as mike described. we adhere to our flight rules for weather just like we're supposed to, and we watched a great vehicle to orbit. we've got a huge challenge in front of us in terms of the mission, we'll see how that goes. when we get endeavour back, we can rest a little bit, but we've got another one after that, and our job is to stay focused, make it look just like every flight, keep moving toward with all the distractions in terms of things that are real impacts to the employees and other folks. so, again, i think the thing that i carry away from this mission more than any other is the wonderful job the teams have done to really give us a quality
vehicle and to give us a great iowa scent today. >> so, mike? >> i'm not sure i can add much more, bill. >> i'll add one thing since you asked. you know, there are several of us that get to work each vehicle, and that's a loot of fun, and we enjoy what we do. but there's only one endeavour processing team, people who work solely endeavour. so this was their only final launch. those folks, those folks are looking back on the history of endeavour with fondness and probably a few tears today. but that's okay because they know they did the best job they could, and endeavour's safely on orbit. so they did a great job. one by one, each team is going to have their final flight. >> over here. >> knox magazine and science log, question for michel about the amf. after the installation, can you characterize the validation period for the detector, and how soon can scientists actually on
the earth's side actually start beginning to receive data? >> so i am not a designer or, so i can give you just what i have learned like everybody else has learned. they will check right after orbit that the system is working properly, and the first results will be given after ams is installed on the iss. and a few hours after -- so it will be this weekend. >> todd? >> todd halverson of florida today for mike or mike. you mentioned that there was a heavy cryo load onboard. it seemed the orbiter was kind of slow getting off the pad. i don't know if you felt that way also, but was that because the a heavier vehicle? and also could you talk about the timing of the sts-135 rollout and the sts-134 landing
if they happen as currently scheduled? how is that all going to come together? the. >> i can take the first part. the, so, no, we weren't any heavier than normal of a typical launch. when i say heavier, the reason why we were able to take more cryo is because other things weighed less. so we were in family to what we normally lift off with. as far as it seeming like it got off the pad slower, to me personally it did, but that's because i configured the tv wrong. i always like to see the shock waves go through before i turn around and look out the window, and i had the wrong channel up. [laughter] so to me, it was gone before i ever even turned around. >> you need some remedial -- >> i do need some training, yes. [laughter] >> let's see, the landing versus rollout question, as we said the other day, there are two separate crews to do that, so we can perform both, essentially, in the same day.
and the way it is scheduled if it does, indeed, play out way is atlantis will be rolling out at 8:30 p.m. on the 31st of may, and endeavour will be land anything the morning on june 1st, and we can do both perfect hi fine, and that'll be a special day for the program. >> this question for michel. the alpha magnetic spectrometer stands poised to be one of the most historic instruments placed in orbit and, therefore, a very historic flight and mission for the endeavour. could you elaborate on dark matter, dark energy and antimatter? if this instrument does, in fact, make detections that lead to a discovery and a direct observation and validation of dark matter energy and antimatter, what, what do you see is the effect of that on our society and certainly on the physics community and the
aterrormy community and -- astronomy community and scientists around the world? >> in fact, if, if we find any scientific results, first we will validate the fact that iss was made to make great science. that was a goal since years and years that we fly in space not only with iss, but previously with the mission -- [inaudible] we always try to see that we go to space to make good science, so now we do make this good science with ams because this is very, very different from what we did before. after we got the result, it takes a lot of time. when you get the result, it takes a lot of time to elaborate and to work on the result and find the -- but it is sure we will find, in any case, we will find things we've never seen before. so the interpretation of this after it's up to the scientists
to talk about that. but i think it's a very important science, and it's going to be very different from what we have seen before. >> in the back of the room. >> christopher sign with the abc affiliate in phoenix, arizona. i know that this has been a very special day on many levels, and i know that you've always had special guests, and this for bill, mike or mike. i know you've had many special guests over the years. can you talk about what it was like having congresswoman giffords here? you all know what happened and what that was like for you guys today? >> let's see. from the, unfortunately, clinical side of the house we're locked up in the firing room doing our job, so the crew families are in a different location. they're in the launch control center, and they go up on the roof to watch, so we don't ever get to see them, greet them or know they're there. and i think in this case they had left before we were released. so from actually getting to experience that today, i
personally, and i don't think any of us up here had the chance to even see her. but conceptually, having her here is just as important as every other family member. to have them here and especially the kids, you know, one of the traditions is they -- while they're waiting for launch, they set up a white board and markers for them, and the kids get to draw their version of the mission patch and messages to mom or dad. and then we take them and hang them in the halls in the control center in mike's building. it serves a lot of things. it shows you how much this is a family and personal thing, and it's a good reminder to us as we walk by that there's people's lives here, and it reminds us to do good work. so from that standpoint, very happy to have her here as a crew family. but if you just think of her story, it's a pretty remarkable testament to human will and recovery to be able to come back from something like that and travel here twice and finally get to see her husband fly in space. >> warren with the fox station
in tampa. maybe you can help us, gentlemen, with something you saw. i can't explain it. leading edge left wing white, white spot, it's about 8:43 we see it on the main tank, we also see it on the ground as the orbiter sits on the ground. is it possible it was some discoloration? didn't look like love bugs. just wondering if anybody saw that. >> i think it was your residue. >> do we want to talk -- i'm not sure what that was. >> i saw it this video as well. i think we had a new rcc panel that's a reinforced carbon/carbon panel. i saw it, it was lighting. it's nothing to be concerned of. it's just the fact that the entire panel was a different shade is what i saw. i saw it when the sun rolled and theover bitter rolled over -- orbiter rolled over.
i don't think it's anything, maybe a little bit different age, and you see some variation. there's like 12 of them or so on each side, maybe more on each side. and each one is unique, and they have different histories. so i don't think there's anything there, but we saw it in the video, and the teams will look at it some more. but i don't think it's anything more than just -- >> the difference in lighting. >> til bill's hitting on the thing, the camera angles really do trick you. as you roll, you see something that looks really bad even in orbit when we take the pictures, you'll look at it from the standard camera at the end of the boom, and it'll look like a bright white, but then when you look at the picture from the digital camera, you see it's this little tiny thread that just happened to catch the light light and reflect right back. so a lot of optical illusions, so that's why we do the detailed inspections. we analyze the actual data rather than just what we saw -- >> you could see it on the ground as well before the orbit
of launch. >> yeah. so we have baseline photos of what we looked like, and the teams will compare that to be able to tell if it's existing problems or new problems. >> chris? >> chris gephardt with nasa space flight.com, again, and actually a perfect segway. with leaving the obss on station, last time we had to do this on sts-123, great care was taken to protect the sensor packages on the end of the boom because they would be needed on the next flight. since that's not the reason the boom's being left, what becomes of the sensor packages on the end of it? are they going to be left on the boom, or are they going to be removed and be brought back on endeavour? >> yeah. the plan is to leave them in place. they will not be powered on orbit, so thermally the components will not survive very long, probably on the order of a couple of hours, maybe a day in some cases. but there's no plan to ever use those sensors again. one thing we are doing, and we've actually done it already, is we outfitted the the boom
with some extra velcro wrap so that if need is to run a cable so at a future time station wants to put a camera or sensor system on the end of the boom, they'd be able to take those off, put new ones on and run new case. the tie wraps are in place, right now the drop l fixture at the very end is only for the shuttle arm. the station arm has to grab it in the middle. doesn't make it as long of a reach, so we're going to replace those with the station grapple fixture so that'll allow full use of the boom. and then if they come up with a need for it, they'll be able to put a seven son pack on. -- sensor pack on. they have pretty good coverage of what they need to see. it's really to get that extra reach of a crewman in case you have to do any replacement tasks. this lets you get pretty far back on the russian segment from the u.s. base of the ssrms, so
it gives us some extra use, it's a good insurance policy. >> over here. >> mark, space rep for either of the mike z. do you know what caused the tile damage on the side hatch? >> yeah, we do. it's, there's a material which is sort of a protective film that we put around the hatch to protect the seals of the hatch while it's open and once it goes closed, it just protects the seals and makes for, essentially, a better fit. those particular sheets of material have to be removed before night, of course. and -- before flight, of course. and so as they were coming out, one of them pulled off a previous repair, this piece of tile that's damaged was a previous repair. all of it came out, and so we just put a roll of surface coating on it, and we were good to go. so we know what caused it, and we fixed it and good to go. >> right here. >> randy of interspace news for
bill. as the shuttle program comes to an end this summer, will nasa continue to do space shuttle main engine research and development down at stennis? >> we don't have any plans to continue with main engine testing, but we are starting to test some of the new engines that are coming for the new program, the j2x engines. there's some turbo pumps and some other runs that are going to be done here, i think finish the next several months down at stennis in that area. so there's no planned ssmu work or shuttle main engine work, but there are some plans for the new hydrogen lock systems that we're planning for the future vehicles that are coming down the road. >> seth. >> seth bornstein, ap again. you mentioned 5 12 and 529, you said the first two were small losses prior to aerodynamic sensitive times. what time were those, and for mike moses, did i quite get you
right? did you say you missed the launch, essentially? [laughter] >> the first loss was at 2:06, and it looked like it was on the ice frost ramp area. and the other one was 2:14, it was on the left-hand bipod area of the tank. and the aerodynamic sensitive time is 2:15, so one was just one second in front, and the other one was nine seconds in front. >> and so for me, no, i didn't miss the launch. you know, the main engines light up six seconds before the boosters go, so in that six seconds, i'm watching the tv not looking out the window where most of the -- well, actually, it's half and half. the guys on the console aren't looking out the window, but the management types tend to look out the window. [laughter] for the first six seconds i was watching the tv, and for the first three or four seconds, i was watching the wrong channel. but i did get turned around in
time. >> we'll wrap it up with a question for jim. >> jim siegel, independent news again. bill, there was a report in the media a few days ago about a, i guess i would say a proposal being knocked around in nasa that hadn't been floated yet to congress, but in essence, it was taking in the orion capsule, putting it on top of an external tank or something like that, putting rocket motors at the bottom of it, having a couple of rocket boosters attached to this as a whole assembly. do -- is that a viable thing that's really been being considered? and would it represent a kind of continuation of the shuttle program? from your point of view? >> kind of what we're doing or what the new programs are looking at is, you know, we've been asked to write a report for congress of which we gave an initial version to congress in january, and then we're due to give them another update sometime in the june/july time
frame. so the teams have been off looking at a whole variety of different configurations of hardware that we could put together to go, essentially, go fly. and it's not only hardware, but we're also looking at what work force is needed, what skill base is around in the country to go support these things which subvendors are available, that's smaller providers of hardware components. we're looking at all those. and then we're trying to, also, see the missions we want to go do. we're trying to have the ability to potentially go the moon, go to a near-earth asteroid, potentially do some repair of a satellite, may go to mars ultimately. we have a whole bunch of destinations. so the idea is how can we build a sense of generickic system that can support all those objectives in the future? but the balancing act is we have to not build the perfect system that supports the future, but it takes us forever to get there. so we're trying to look and see what systems we can use today,
how we can advance those systems, move them forward, put them together and then do something fairly soon. actually a demonstration or a mission kind of activity. so we're looking to try to actually focus some early mission things, potentially something to a geosynchronous orbit potentially around the moon, those kinds of things that would not only check out the hardware that we're building, but also give us real data that pushes us in the right direction. so what the teams are doing is they're evaluate ago ton of concepts, so there's a whole bunch of different analysis going on, a bunch of different evaluations going on, and we're trading all these things back and forth. we've been doing it for the past several months, so every once in a while one of those gets pushed out to the media. the media takes it and then provide us their feedback on what it is. [laughter] we evaluate that feedback along with the stuff we get from our engineers, and sometimes we have the exact same feeling that the media does, and then you know where that configuration stands. so we continue to work through all those options, we'll do that
probably for the next month or so, and then we'll try to get a plan to congress on how we want to move forward. we see the need to do this in an expedient manner to capture the work we've got in place but also give us a plan that is supportable in the future that allows us to keep doing this next stage which is to do exploration beyond lower earth orbit. so near term the focus is on station to utilize the heck out station and get really good research. we'll continue to do that with our russian partners, but then at the same time build a concrete plan on how we're going to get beyond low-earth orbit, and that's what we're doing in the next couple months. >> all right, thank you all for coming. nasa television will be providing nearly continuous coverage of the mission through landing here on nasa tv, and also you can keep up with the mission on our web site at www.nasa.gov/shuttle. and a reminder that here on nasa television immediately following this briefing in this same very room at kennedy space center
will be a briefing with congresswoman gabrielle giffords' staff. once again, thank you for coming. >> next on c-span2, the u.s. commission on civil rights looks at bullying in public schools and the role of the federal, state and local governments. later, we're live with a speech by former national security adviser general james jones on u.s. strategy for the changing environment in the middle east. ..
>> the u.s. commission on civil rights recently held an all day event on olene. one of the discussions focused on how students are treated based on the race, national origin, religion and disabilities. next we would about the role of school administrators and involvement by federal, state and local governments. this is an hour and 40 minutes. >> i want to welcome everyone for race and national origin and
religion and disability panel. this afternoon's panelists are paula goldberg, executive director of the pacer center. vice president of asian americans united, stuart buck, though at the university of arkansas, kenneth marcus, executive vice president of the institute for jewish and community research, hilary shelton, senior vice president of advocacy for the naacp, and rajdeep singh, director of law and policy for the sikh coalition. you will each have seven minutes to make your statements. as i said earlier if you were not here, there's a series of traffic lights year that red, yellow, green. we all know what that means. when yellow comes on you have two minutes left and we ask you to wrap up when read its. i'm going to be rude and interrupt folks in the middle of the statements but i hope that will not happen. we will have 60 minutes of discussion. i now ask all the panelists to please raise your right hand and swear or affirm that the
information you're about to provide is true and accurate to the best of your knowledge and belief. is that so? let the record reflect they have all said yes. so we will begin our questioning, statements this morning with ms. goldberg. please begin. >> my name is paula goldberg, and i'm executive director and founder of pacer center, national parent center in minnesota that provides information and resources to parents of children with all disabilities. pacer begin its national bowling prevention center six years ago after receiving numerous calls from parents about their children with disabilities being bullied. pacers national bowling prevention center has since expanded to serve all children and pacer is also the founder of national bowling prevention which is in october but. i would like to thank members of this commission for inviting me today and i would also like to recognize commissioner titus for her being an abacus for her entire career in nevada for
people with disabilities. and in nevada. information center has also partnered with pacer on bullying issues. i want to begin by sharing just several stories about children with disabilities. a month ago i personally received a call from a mother who has two sons with asperger center. she shared a horrific story of three years of bullying and harassment against her sons and their family by 15-20 teenagers. they teenagers damaged the family home on many occasions, including one incident when five dozen eggs were thrown against the house the night before the funeral of the grandsons -- their grandmother. they teenagers also left feces on the steps of the house with a threatening note. when one of the suns went on his first day, they teenagers hung bloody tampons all over the car. the sun has not dated since. the bullying also occurred in
school where one side was urinated on in the locker room, and the teenagers also cyber bullied the sun. the bullying was so pervasive that the sun went into a long-term depression. the. said that her family's life had been changed for ever. because of the teenagers who made a project to terrorize her two sons. she said they took something from our family that we can never get back. the pair talked with school administrators said that if the family didn't like the bowling that was occurring, the son should lead the school, which they did. second story involves a doggerel girls with epilepsy who attended a small rural school where everyone had grown up together. she had a seizure at school. the girl was ostracized then by the entire school, including the school staff. she was ordered to sit alone during class and lunch.
when she walked into the bathroom, the girls would all fall down and imitator seizures. the girl's classmates would steal her books and homework, lock her in closets and draw pictures of her having a seizure and then post them throughout the school. after months and months of begging, her grandma finally agreed to homeschool her. since this incident the girl has had no friends, and the shame of her disability. after a very short story involves a 15 year-old boy with learning disabilities. he was bullied every friday. why? because a group of students called friday eat up the retard day. -- beat up the retard day. these are several examples of stories pacers are from all over the country regarding owning of children on the basis of disability. research demonstrates that children with disabilities are bullied more frankly than their peers without disabilities.
in one study, 60% of students with disabilities reported being bullied, compared to only 25% of typical students. another report found that children with disabilities were 10 times more likely to be bullied than a typical student. in response to these a lot of statistics and stories, pacer has developed innovative resources to educate all students with information on how to effectively respond to bullying. pacers elementary website was designed first and was so successful that in 2009, pacer created a second website for teenagers called teens against bullying.org. the websites focus on engaging bystanders to make a difference and have evolved to include classroom toolkits which educators and other professionals can download for free to use in educating students. pacers national bowling prevention website, k-12 includes links to all these
resources for parents, students, teachers and the community. pacers use bowling of children with disability and all bowling as a civil rights issue. pacer recommends the following, and active federal bowling law that enumerates the protected classes of disability, race, ethnicity, national origin,, and sexual orientation and gender expression. pacer recognizes that bowling knows no boundaries, but that specific group of students, especially students with disability are more often targeted than their peers, and there needs to be prevention strategies to address their protected civil rights. this law should be incorporated into the reauthorized elementary and secondary education act, it should include the following provision. eight, require turning on bullying prevention for school administrators, educators, parents and students.
the stories that i share clearly demonstrate the need for increased training for professionals so that they're able to respond appropriately when bullying incidents occur. b., established a nonprofit center in every state that can provide technical assistance and resources to parents, professionals and students to prevent and respond to bowling. two, and also, i'm sorry, collect data on bullying incidents. two, incorporate bowling prevention language into said, individually -- and state special education laws also the bowling must be addressed in students, individual education program or ietf. three, urge states to require bowling prevention training to be included in teacher preparation courses, especially for elementary and secondary teachers and coaches. four, teach pure advocacy and support skills to students in all schools. five, implement initiatives that are schoolwide such as pis which
stands for positive behavior intervention support to prevent bullying, and creating a school culture and climate that is safe and respectful and encourages positive behaviors. we recognize that bullying is a complex societal problem, and that there are no simple solutions. however, we believe we can prevent bullying by systematically engaging in educating students, parents can go professionals and the community. we believe that we can and must prevent bullying. the end of bullying begins with everyone in this room. thank you. >> thank you. >> good afternoon. on december 3, 2009, more than 2000 asian students were being in a series of assaults. the assaults began before 9 a.m. when teachers reported groups of students roaming the hallways looking for asian students. in one classroom at the assistants rushed inside and
assaulted an asian student reportedly beating them at throwing a desk on top of the day before 11 a.m. does a rush of 20 to 40 cents in the hallway where immigrant students took classes while school police took -- held at the crowd back. asian students expressed are going to the cafeteria but their request remain in the classroom was denied by the school principal who ordered contested within a subsequent attack by more than 60-70 students and security cameras showed other students and getting them on. around 1 p.m. a group of three to five students drag an asian girl down the stairwell by her hair. after school, 10 agencies requested remain in the building expressing fear of larger than usual crowd that had amassed on street corners. they were ordered outside, know the school principal offer to walk them home, she quickly dropped from sight. a crowd of more than 100 chase them, quartered and surround the students. most of them young girls as 20-40 of their peers begin. at the end of the day more than two dozen students have been assaulted, many more were
terrorized and 1 13 went to the emergency room for treatment. and regional superintendent told a media that showed the day off as a blip and the district safety chief in school principal said am i as it had happened on school grounds and no students were into. as shocking as the events of the state where they were far from isolated from within. asian americans united on with the asian american legal defense and a number of committee advocates have been raising alarm bells about increasing anti-asian, anti-immigrant violence. my own involvement began in october 2008 after five immigrant students were severely beaten in the subway by dozens of their classmates. 20 chinese youth met with community leaders and requested their involvement. over the ensuing months we document dozens of incidents, assault abandoned beating, arrest and intimidation, racial slurs and harassment and ridicule for students who are asian and recent immigrants. the harassment did not just come from students. speaking, those are some of the
comments students reported that staff member said to them. staff numbers also turned their faces away when classmates threw food at them or shut him out of line staff numbers who imaged -- mimicked accent. or refuse to file incident reports and the students spoke english to them. and them. and he failed to call for translation assistance for concerned parents and families. as one student said, as soon as we open our mouth we're treated like animals. in response the october 2008 meetings, immigrants began organizing. one immigrant student leader volunteered on the school safety task force. community advocates and students met on multiple occasions with ministers and school and district leaders about addressing the anti-asian, anti-immigrant climate but the reaction we experience with stubborn resistance, denial and delay. when december 2009 violence happen if the students did the unexpected they boycotted their
school. for eight days more than 50 and upwards of up to 70-80 student met every single day for eight hours a day to analyze the situation of the school, document the violence and work on school issues. they call for recognition of a racial and and anti-immigrant bias against them. dialogue amongst staff and students, curriculum and above all, more leadership from the adults were charged to serve them. in our 25 years of working with asian youths in our public schools many of them are recent immigrants, we have been reduced to benefit of schools to recognize and address violence in general and anti-asian anti-immigrant violence in the country and -- in particular. even when one dignity student had his neck broken in an attack the school remained unresponsive to addressing anti-asian bias. years of advocacy events or resolve integration of an office of multicultural curriculum and the hiring of asian-american curriculum specialists who provide a curriculum and academic resources as well as
training for staff and school. today, over the past decade we now see that the district has disbanded its asian offices and is current and the harassment policy does little more than reiterate that students and individuals are prohibited from harassing others rather than create a content for helping schools understand. what would have helped would have served as a wakeup call to address serious anti-immigrant anti-asian violence within the institution at the school. instead, school and district officials denied the attacks its asian and a youth had anything to do with race, failed to keep medicaid, refused to hold adults in the school accountable, and even retaliated against asian immigrant victims. through the rest of the we document more than half a dozen continued violent incidents against asian students, physical assaults that is, and more than a dozen harassment incidents. as appalling as the december 2009 attacks were, it was the egregious conduct of
school officials in the months leading up to the day in the months following that were getting federal intervention. it is this experience that shaped our firm belief of federal intervention of schools and the vital role that u.s. department of justice has in this collaboration with community's to implement at south philadelphia high school what we hope is a groundbreaking summit agreement to address bias in schools across the country to central point. first, schools and district officials there responsible for not addressing a pervasive climate of bias and harassment. this is not solely or even primarily a student to student problem. second, there's a difference between bias harassment and generalized violence and it requires a different approach towards remediation. the u.s. department of justice on what charges the school districdistrict of david with an difference and here's how it played a. denial anti-immigrant bias on repeated occasions, dystrophies denied the talk of violence was racial. they blamed a few bad apples. games, and a general pandemic of
violence in society. when committee members raised concerns about racial bias and slurs, their concerns were characterized as emotions and sensitivities unrelated to attacks, or worse as part of code and asian agenda according to the school principal at the time but there was a failed to investigate and document incidents. district officials repeatedly failed to investigate incidents of violence documented against stupid -- students. the district failed to translate documents to provide students and families with interpretation. students report that school security did not offer translation assistance. therefore, did not investigate them or only heard the perspective of the english-speaking students. school district officials also spread misunderstanding about english language classes offered to students referred to such pro-grants as a dynasty that quote unquote the need to be broken up, or implied especially which services or special privileges or desire for segregation.
>> mr. buck? >> we'll come back and ask you some questions. thank you. >> thank you. i'm stuart buck, a fellow at the university of arkansas. i was asked to talk about the acting white criticism as possible form of intra- racial bullying. first of all, what is acting white? acting like is when a black student accused a fellow classmate of acting white are trying to be white because of that classmates be. that behavior could include schoolwork, showing too much excitement about school work or studying too hard. but it can often include cultural matters of the of such as how one dresses, how they talk of what sort of music they listen to and the like. there's a recent example that major newspaper in norfork virginia. i graduate told a local newspaper that he thinks, he quote and he thinks the akamai pressure influences other stupid they feel they're supposed to be cool and cool as us will
supposed to making good grades in school. people have called me white because i make good grades and didn't conform to the stereotype it another example from mesa, arizona, that made the newspaper, a girl named alexander race at all my life i've been accused of acting white. i'm only being me. i am only being myself. and another incident from florida, clarence stevens, the 2004 valedictorian at seminal high school in orlando part is black classmates he was called a whiteboard in a black man's body. these are just anecdotes of course. so what about more systematic evidence? i found more than a dozen scholarly studies from 1970 to the present-day damaging the acting white criticism does affect some black schoolchildren, not all. to be sure, i admit it's impossible to find the exact rate at which that occurs. it differs widely depending on the time and place, and many such incidents might never be report in the first place. a few other studies, one recent
study surveyed 166 gifted black students in ohio and found that two-thirds reported that they knew someone who was ridiculed for doing well in school. that most of the thought of acting white as being smart and that most is defined acting black has been done and pretending not to care about school. ronald ferguson of harvard did a survey of 20 high schools in eight states. he found that in integrated schools almost half of the a students reported they were sometimes or always accused of acting white. in 1996 book, psychology professor steinberg report on the result of a multiyear study that surveyed some 20,000 high school students. we heard variations on the, the course of our interviews with high school students it as a result many boxes are forced to choose between doing well in school and having friends. the most recent and systematic evidence comes from an african-american economist at harvard. he found a large national representative survey that while white students pocketed through a long with your gpa, kind of a
steady curve upwards, black students with a three-point five gpa or higher suffered a huge hit to the popular to. in his words the black suit with a 4.0 has an average one and have averaged your friends of the same ethnicity than a wasted with the same gpa. the study as about popularity in general, not about specific bullying incidents but it does shed light on the unfortunate fact that academic success sometimes can be penalized by one's peers. interestingly he found the acting white criticism seems of a stronger effect on boys, which possibly could held a claim why black boys graduate less than black girls. the rate at which the males lose friends at this point for credit as a result, blackmail high achievers had notably fewer friends than do female ones. i want to emphasize and clarify the that many students from all races who criticize nerds or geeks or in some way
antagonistic towards the role of school. is a been an unfortunate kind of intellectual event of american life from a decade. 50 years ago the sociologist jane coleman found in his book the adolescent society, that in high schools in illinois boys were prized for their cars or athletic ability, girls were valued mainly for their physical beauty and enticing manner, and his work. so he found a coat the adolescent subcultures in these schools exerts a rather strong deterrent to academic achievement. adolescent. culture in contemporary america means academic success and score instance to try to do well in school. still the acting white accusation could be more devastating than the nerd or geek labels. one black scholar pointed out that a student accused of acting like is essentially being told they do not belong in the black race and she even said her
emphasis acting white is the most negative accusation that can be hurled at a black adolescent. so as far as i know there's been only one federal lawsuit alleging that the acting white criticism was so pervasive that it create a hostile racial environment. .. read the statutes, the statute reprohibitions -- if you think
sex discrimination should include discrimination against someone not merely for their sex in and of itself but for displaying a particular pattern of behaviors and preferences that deemed inappropriate for that sex, then likewise it seems not to interpret the discrimination on race and it could be white or black or any other races that are aimed at a particular student not for the race in and of itself but for acting in a way that is deemed inappropriate for that particular race. so i think the answers to the two questions ought to be kind of parallel just like the statutes are. so that's all i have and i thank you for inviting me. >> mr. marcus? >> thank you. chairman castro, vice chair it's a pleasure to be here on an occasion who could be blamed for anything that's happened on the commission. >> we could bring it up. >> we could turn --
>> please proceed. >> i've been asked to proceed carsment and bullying of religious minorities today. and i appreciate your including within this briefing the topic of religious harassment, an understudied topic because i believe any comprehensive approach to the problem of bullying and harassment needs to include a discussion of religious minorities. today i will urge the commission to recommend that congress introduce legislation that would prohibit harassment of religious minorities, which surprisingly still is not barred by federal civil rights law. in my experience, the best way of understanding the problem of religious harassment is by way of example so i will give you just a few. the first one that came to my attention when i was acting head of the office for civil rights a
few years ago involved a 6th, 7th of his school. it included taunts of osama that resulted in head injuries. in pennsylvania an eighth grader was called bin laden, told to go back to turbin land and had his religious head covering yanked because students conflated with his religious identity with the 9/11 attacks. according -- mr. chairman, i hope i'm not swimming too much, there's many examples that could be raised. in a different incident a muslim junior high school student reported being beaten until he bled at a staten island middle school. they punched me he reported. they spit in my face. they tripped me on the floor. they kicked me with their feet and they punched me and as they were kicking and laughing, he said, they kept saying, you
f-ing terrorist, f-ing muslim, you f-ing terrorist. this young man reported being kicked so hard in the groin that he bled in his european. in another incident, students at a different school allegedly yanked a 13-year-old's muslim girl's head scarf and beat her. they just attacked me, she said. they called me terrorist. they called me muslim. i am afraid that they will come back and beat me again. over the last few years we've seen some schools that have had kick a jew day on school grounds during school hours. some of these events may have been inspired by a 2005 television episode called "kick a gender day" on the south park which has mutated into scores into hundreds of facebook kick a jew day. these incidents are sadly representative of a host of problems that were faced -- that we're facing around the country.
in some cases, school administrators or law enforcement officials take prompt and effective action. in other cases they do not. what i would argue is that whatever apparatus that we have to deal with harassment of other minority groups, we should have the same degree of protection for religious minority students. and yet we don't. there is a gap in federal civil rights law which has allowed these incidents to occur and this commission can play an important role in fixing it. to this day religious discrimination in federally assisted programs and activities such as elementary and secondary schools. title 6 of the civil rights act of 1964 prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color or national origin in federally assisted programs or activities. this list of classifications has been expanded by legislation over the years to include discrimination on the basis of sex, disability, age and even membership in certain patriotic
youth organizations like the boy scouts of america but has not been -- has not been expanded to include religion. now, there is an exception. there is a difficult problem that arises with respect to what one might call ethnoreligious groups, that is to say groups that have both religious and ethnic attributes. the office for civil rights at the department of education has gone back and forth over this issue during the years. for most of the office of civil rights history when it got complaints from groups like jews it would say i'm sorry, jews are a member of a religion group and we do not have jurisdiction. in 2004 when i headed the office for civil rights, i issued guidance which said that if a group like jews that have religious characteristics face discrimination based on ethnic or ancestral attributes, ocr needs to move forward.
that policy was essentially disregarded for several years after my departure. i'm pleased to say that in october of this year, assistant secretary rothman ali included a very important provision in her dear colleague letter which determined once again ocr will address ethnic or ancestral discrimination against groups like jews or seks. i think it was a very important development on which assistant secretary ali should be commented. however, that policy remains an informal guidance. it is not permanent in the way that -- or did yourable in the legislation is. it could be disregarded in the future legislations like the 2004 policy was disregarded between 2004 and 2010. moreover, it has an enormous loophole for students who face discrimination on purely religious grounds. there is, i would argue, no
reason why a school should escape any sort of overview or oversight on the grounds that the hostile environment that it permits is merely religious and not racial or ethnic. there are many other reasons why i think legislation would be appropriate here. and i would suggest that the written submission describes those reasons in greater length. i would suggest that while administrative action like assistant secretary ali's is helpful, it is really only congress that can provide the fix that's required here and that this commission can play a very important role by recommending that legislation. >> thank you, mr. marcus. >> my pleasure. >> we'll come back and ask you some questions. mr. shell? >> thank you, chairman castro and the members of the civil rights -- as we're invited to participate, the naacp greatly appreciates the opportunity to voice our thoughts on this crucial issue. founded in more than 102 years
ago, the naacp is our nation's always largest grassroots civil rights-based organization. we have 200 units and we're moving each and every of the 50 states in the country. for over 50 years i have served as the director of the naacp's washington bureau, the national public policy arm of this organization. for nearly 46 years after the enactment of the landmark civil rights act in 1964 and despite a number of ground-breaking laws since then including the voting rights act of '65 and the fair housing act of '68 harassment bullying is still prevalent. naacp knows all too well the insidious taunts and the harassment comments on bullies based solely our race or ethnic background. it ruins individuals lives decimates families and can break apart whole communities. it's because of those ongoing problems associated with bullying that the naacp is so appreciative to this commission
looking at all of the approaches being employed by the federal government including the u.s. department of education, u.s. department of justice, bullying and harassment based on race, ethnicity, national organization, sex, disability or sexual orientation is so damaging that we need to have an aggressive coordinator response. with the advent of new technologies including cell phones, texting, emails and social media tools such as facebook and twitter, to name is few, there seems to be new avenues for bullies to take in their quest to make them -- make the lives of others absolutely miserable. as such, the naacp commends and appreciates the u.s. department of education, the department of justice and, of course, this commission as well as various other government and nongovernment organizations who are aggressively pursuing the laws in order to protect our children. yet, sadly there always seems to be a case in which their efforts fall short. take, for example, the case of darian albet who was a 16-year-old junior and high school student at christian
fender academy high school on chicago's south side when he was beaten to death. although the location of the beating was outside of the school grounds, it has been reported he had been bullied and harassed by the two opposing gangs on school property during school hours for some time. darion's death served as a tragic reminder of the repercussions of bullying and harassment. having been asked to give my opinion and on the naacp on the extent of the problem because many victims of bullying and harassment are oftentimes too frightened to come forward, suffice it to say cases such as darion's offer proof that bullying is alive and prevalent in our nation's schools. on october 26th, 2010, ruston alice, from the department of education offered a dear colleague to explain what out lines from the u.s. department of justice. the secretary was careful to point out, however, and i quote that even when bullying or
harassment is not a civil rights violation, schools should still seek to prevent in order to protect students from the physical and emotional harm that it may cause, unquote. she went on in her letter to state to school boards and i again quote the investigation reveals the discrimination harassment has occurred a school must take prompt and effective steps reasonably calculated to end the harassment and eliminate any hostile environment and its effects and prevent the harassment from recurring, end of quote. yet a careful review of secretary ali's letter demonstrates and what the naacp believes to be true that punishment is not always the answer. in fact, the naacp firmly advocates a conference of a holistic approach to eliminate the scourge of bullying which not only caste the victims of his or her rights and helps him or her to heal but investigates, determines and eliminates the roots behind the actions of the bully. mr. chairman, bullying and harassment is a real problem in our schools and one that needs
to be dealt with effectively. we need to respond and get to the root of the problem if we are to completely eliminate it once and for all. because bullying affects families and whole communities we need a response that allows input from all who have been and might be affected. thus the naacp supports the establishment of antibullying programs to put a structure in place. that structure would number 1 determine the extent of the problem, the damage done to the victim or victims and determine an appropriate recourse. number 2, offer support for victims, victims or victim, so he or she or they may be able to fully heal and move beyond the incident and, three, provide the services to the perpetrators and ensure that they stop their abusive behavior while being monitored for their age and stage for their development. if the war on drugs has taught us anything, a blanket incarceration and zero tolerance can easily result in a racially disparate implementation of the law which only furs decemb --
neighborhoods and schools. we would like a community made of teachers, community leaders and community representatives and people from local advocacy organizations who are familiar with resources, whether they are educational, health-based or others to help bullying -- to help the bully realize the hurtfulness of his or her action and eliminate the root causes. i suspect the department of justice and the department of education already have resources to assist in the establishment of such groups, but if not, we would certainly support legislation to assist in the creation of such convenience. chairman castle and members of the connection, i again thank you for your attention to this very important issue. school-based bullying whether it's due to an individual's race, ethnicity, sex, or sexual orientation is not hurtful and dangerous and should be eliminated if we are as a society to reach our full potential. again, i thank you very much and look forward to your questions. >> thank you, mr. shelton.
>> i thank you very much for have a good evening this hearing. it's a privilege to be here. i'm part of the largest civil rights organization in the united states. we were constituted in the night of september 11, 2001, in response to a torrent of hate crimes against sikh americans in the united states. it started over five centuries ago and it's the fifth largest religion with more than 25 million adherence around the world. sikh are visible by religious articles including uncut hair which sikh mails are required to keep covered with a turbin. also the sikh is a symbol of noble and signifies a commitment to upholding freedom, justice and dignity for all people, the physical appearance of a sikh is ignorantly conflated with images of foreign terrorists, some of whom also wear turbines and many of whom have received copious publicity in the mainstream media in the aftermath of the
9/11 attack. as a consequence sikh are ridiculed of racial profiling and employment discrimination and school bullying. in the course of offering this testimony we are guided by a belief that all children race, disabilities and sexual orientation have the right to enjoy a safe healthy learning environment at school. it's designed to highlight challenges and opportunities that have all the fundamental rights of all the nation's children. now, in the course of the day i'm sure you've heard of statistics which re-enforce the fact that bullying is a severe and pervasive problem for many communities in this country. our own studies, our own reports are consistent with these finds. sikh coalition poll published in 2007 revealed that 62% of
turbin-wearing sikh in the queensboro of new york city experienced bullying and that's 42% of them had been hit or involuntarily touched because of their turbines. a similar last year, 74% of turbin sikh boys faced bias-based scombooulg what does this mean in terms? i offer you the personal testimony in their own words of two individuals who we have worked with in the last several years. one is a young man from new york city again speaking in his own words. i grew up in richland hill in queens and ever since i can remember i've been treated differently. it wasn't exactly bullying that started in elementary school but the other kids didn't look at me very much. i stood out from the rest of them because my uncut hair tied in a top knot made me look different. when i got to elementary school they used to call me an egg head. loneliness just became a part of
my life. after 9/11, things became much worse. kids called me names and would ask me things like, are you related to osama bin laden? they called me a terrorist. once on the bus ride home, someone pulled my turbin off my hair. i had to walk home without my turbin and my hair was open, which is very embarrassing. i was crying and wondering what i could do, end quote. now, if that wasn't bad enough for him, subsequent to those experiences, one of his best friends turned on him initially did he think their friendship but leading a group of bullies one day as they chased him through the city eventually catching him and slamming his head against a metal pole. in fact bystanders helped him. they just watched as he began bleeding profusely and nearly passed out. now, in the interest of the time, as details more fully in our written testimony or written statement we have the statement
from a mother, a sikh mother in san francisco who doumths some of the experiences that are own son faced while going to school, among other things he had his turbin ripped off and she said in one of our surveys that as a mother, i will repent for the rest of my life that i cannot bring back my son's childhood. i think every child, every child has the right to agree up in a much healthier environment and achieve their full potential. now, this is sort of a foundation for a discussion that we very much look forward to having about the need for federal intervention. the sikh coalition regards a safe and healthy learning environment as a fundamental human right for every child who attends school in the united states. in light of our own experiences in particular, in recent years with school officials in new york city, we believe that vigorous federal intervention is needed to hold schools and school districts accountable for their inactions and perhaps more importantly their inaction. consider some of our experiences
in new york city of late. between 2007 and 2008, the sikh community in new york city experienced a spate brutal violence against children. one boy had an orbital bone broken at school and one had their turbin put on fire and two had their hair forcibly cut by bullies and in our organization and a number of others undertook an act to pass a chancellor regulation in new york city that on paper is very strong and relief mechanisms to students who have been bullied for whatever reason, however, the implementation has been quite poor. we conducted a survey in the last couple of years of teachers and according to our survey results only 14%, 14% of teachers and staff surveyed said that the regulation and some of the training diversity programs that are called for under the auspices of that regulation are effective or very effective.
only 31% of the respondents said students received adversity training as mandated by the regulation and perhaps worse of all according to pat compton a former teacher at a high school in new york city, in brooklyn, any staff training on harassment that my school district did last year did in a lackadaisical and perfunctory manner. this is a former school teacher of the nonimplementation of the chancell chancellor petition that we would hoped would have been been addressed. we would defer to discuss our regulation but we would look forward to having that discussion. >> thank you, mr. singh. we would open it up to questions concise questions. >> well, i've got a lot of
questions and i hope we'll be able to go around several times because i know i only have -- i have to -- i guess get closer to the mic. i should start out asking my questions to one of the panelists and it would go to stewart buck. it comes with a question and then a thought after that question on my part. the question if there's any difference in terms of the bullying -- you were talking about integrated schools. there was a major study -- he looked at only integrated schools and whether there's any evidence that the same bullying doesn't go on in all-black schools but that leads me to a larger question here.
it seems to me that a lot of what we've heard today is to give more schools choice so that parents can send their children to schools where they think the children will be safer. and schools of choice are schools in which bullies can be out and sent whenever. you can have state and local places where boys are sent and through what kind of programs. but so much of the testimony today seems to me indirectly an argument for vouchers. so i guess from my question --. >> oh, boy! >> what about all-black schools which voucher schools could be and there the same kind of
bullying to a larger point about whether a lot of the testimony doesn't end up as being bad amounting to advocacy for much greater school choices? >> yes, actually, and it doesn't deal specifically with bullying but it's a drop among popularity of high achieving blacks but i think he found the effect was seven times greater in well integrated schools as opposed to largely black or largely white schools. and there's several other studies that have found kind of similar -- in fact, the first study that they even noticed the acting whites' kind of attitude was a 1970 book about a desegregated school by four arizona sociologists. and one student for example was asked what pressures do you feel from the fact that you attended a desegregated school. he said well, i participated in speech and using language of the
time. he said i'm the only negro in the whole group. the negroes accuse me of thinking white. the argument put forth -- well, to quote a couple of scholars from michigan high-achieving students of color in racially balanced schools accused most lightly being white because advanced classes puts them in constant contact of white students and there's a large number of students to notice and comment on these supposed defections. it can sometimes ironically set up a clash where students might be forced to kind of pick sides at least so they feel. that's not to say that integration is a bad idea at all. it might be one aspect of students' to address and combat. as to your further point, i agree a lot of the disputes and clashes that go on in schools, you know, from bullying incidents to curriculum disputes
and so forth, possibly occur because 90% of everyone is forced into the same school with different clashes of values people want to see their own side prevail and so if you add more of a freer system for people to choose their own school as is the case in belgium, it's been seen as a way for people to sort themselves out and find an environment that's more comfortable. >> and choose their own students and expel them. >> commissioner yaki? >> this is -- [inaudible] >> i think i know where you're headed and let me see if i can help you get there. i'm curious as to what's the nature of the federal intervention. and how -- what does it depend on the asian-american association --
>> the u.s. department of justice on december 15th filed a suit and then a settlement agreement with the school district of philadelphia and the school reform commission. among the things that we felt that were covered in an important way was the establishment of an effective antiharassment policy and procedures including timely investigations as well as -- it also required antiharassment antibias training for staff and students. it clarified issues of language access so like after school there's a large number of the students and they have one poly interpreter in the district. access is required at the school so they can use an online telephone service and they can find other ways and training people. victim services in counseling were among the things that were recommended. a process kicks in for perpetrators but there's nothing left for victims. and the appointment of an independent consultant and compliance monitor. in terms of impact has been, i mean, the thing that i thought
was most helpful is that at the school that we experienced there was such a lack of clarity good what was -- when did something rise to the point of being a problem? even today people still think that it was not really an issue. this was a student/nonstudent problem, you know, it was isolated. i didn't hear about it. you know, to some extent what we wanted to talk a little bit about and what the justice department settlement was important because there was a difference between bullying among students and harassment and how you handle biased bias-based harassment. harassment at south philadelphia high school cause students to drop out and walk in groups while one student was victimized the whole group felt threatened by it. sources of bias goes well beyond what bullying is. it's not a personality conflict with that child and another child. so for, you know, peer mediation is a popular resource for conflict but wholly inappropriate for bias, physical violence. a punitive approach also fails
to substantially address problems because, you know, things like racial or verbal attacks did not rise to that level. there was -- you know, there wasn't an understanding that you can punish one individual but if whole groups of students carrying biased feelings that cause them to act a manner then pushing one student on a case-by-case basis wasn't helping people establish patterns of bias. >> mr. chairman, thank you. earlier this morning we heard a number of witnesses express concern about federal intervention per se. and some speculated that the laws that seemed to authorize federal intervention,