Skip to main content

tv   Book TV  CSPAN  November 24, 2011 6:00pm-7:00pm EST

6:00 pm
that. so for me have always hoped to do about it -- always, but usually so good about it. but then someone humors me and says that's happened to me several times. i wish i could say to you that i don't mind criticism. i'm just like everybody else. i don't handle criticism well. but it's also realized, look, if they can't handle criticism then i shouldn't be moderating presidential debates or shouldn't even be on television. that goes with the territory. and public reaction and it's impossible to please everybody. if you start inking about pleasing everybody come you please nobody. and i am so cocky now -- cockiest not the word. i have been doing it so long as
6:01 pm
somebody criticizes me for some and i don't think the criticism is justified or not worry about it. i mean, nobody has to tell me when i screwed up. i know when i screwed up. and that comes with doing us a long time. >> host: so what about the next? >> guest: they are going to be great. you bet i will be watching them. i will be willing to help everyone i possibly can to do anything be critical in the election process, but that -- they will be there to help as an observer. >> host: and watch in front of the tv soap would be a little less nerve-racking one would assume. >> guest: yes, ma'am. thank you so much, jim lehrer. this is a family spoke not just because i'm a political junkie but a lot of interesting history week and it's very important. "tension city" by jim lehrer, my
6:02 pm
view from the middle seat. you should've sent no hot tea. thank you, jim. >> guest: thank you, gloria. back benjamin runkle presents manhunts by military intelligence agencies. mr. runkle accounts campaigns including the death of osama bin
6:03 pm
laden which ended the longest manhunts in american history. this is about 45 minutes. >> welcome to the tattered cover in thank you very much for supporting your local independent bookstore. benjamin runkle is a former paratrooper and speechwriter with a harvard phd and a bronze star for an operation iraqi freedom. his perch in the department of defense and the national security council and is currently a professional staff member on the house armed services committee. he is here to discuss and sign his new book, "wanted dead or alive" manhunts from geronimo. a recent review in the "washington times" stated in wanted dead dead or an ikea commerce seemingly contradictory feat. his colorful fast-paced account of each manhunts appeal to those who enjoy a good adventure story. that is in strategic insight provides ample material for further reflection.
6:04 pm
his writing is readable without being greasy, needy without being hungry. cook deserves attention from policymakers and the general public. please welcome, benjamin runkle. [applause] >> thank you comments camera for the kind introduction. it's great to see some old friends tonight and i appreciate so many others were willing to is the kickoff of the broncos season opener to be yours well. i promise i will be brief enough to catch the second half of the game. but the scheduling conflict of flippo said they couldn't think of a more appropriate time to discuss the subject of strategic manhunts in the day after yesterday's tragic anniversary. out of curiosity, how many people you remember exactly where they were on tuesday, september 11, 2001? is not surprising everybody raises their hand. by comparison how many people remember where they were on
6:05 pm
tuesday september 18, 2001? nobody raised their hand is also not surprising. it's a cliché in an understatement to say 9/11 is the day that will forever be etched in the memory of all americans who lived. it'd ever since the previous tuesday's events september 18, 2001 seems relatively inconsequential. america was in the state of shock and mourning for the attacks that killed three to pizzo is also desperate to retain measures are some small measure of normalcy. less than five miles from her rescue crews still search for signs of life amongst wreckage of the world trade center and the new york stock exchange reopened for business that morning. later the cry of play ball would replace the morbid silence settled over major league baseball stadiums across the country and in washington d.c. that morning president bush would depend upon to meet the
6:06 pm
secretary defense and senior military leaders to review decision to activate 35,000 reservists. as the president arrived, the smoke lingered in the air, wafting from where american airlines fleet 77 slammed into the building's outer ring. after the meeting -- after gathering with some survivors of the 180 people killed at the pentagon in spontaneous rendition of god bless america broke out in the pentagon cafeteria, the president spoke to reporters. one member of the press corps asked the question on every american's mind. do you want bin laden dead? president bush replied in his texas drawl which i won't try to imitate, i want justice. there's an old poster out west has had wanted dead or alive. for the peasant supporters it seems seemingly impossible at the time included large majority of americans. as a simple a slacker in the face of unspeakable tragedy. for the president's critics is
6:07 pm
ranked as well as the ones her tripod in afghanistan and especially in iraq, the remark would come to epitomize bush's simplistic cowboy diplomacy. even president bush himself would eventually express regret. either way was an iconic moment in the nascent war on terror. but as for worse, president bush inextricably linked, but to the public's mind with the fate of one man. but his humor was mr. manic at the time. although president persona document and a half operation designed to kill them on and it was the first u.s. president to do so. in response the august 1998 embassy bombings, clinton fired tomahawk cruise missiles at al qaeda training camps in afghanistan to kill bin laden and authorized lethal force if necessary to capture the saudi terrorist. moreover bin laden was not the first individuals to be singled out as a strategic objective of the u.s. military campaign.
6:08 pm
i made three commutative fix, a century before $25 million reward would offer information on his whereabouts, the u.s. house of representatives introduced a joint resolution authorizing the president to offer a reward of $25,000 for the killing or capture of geronimo. 30 years later in response a deadly raid across the mexican border and to columbus new mexico on march 19th 16 or woodrow wilson announced an adequate force will be sent at once in pursuit with a single object of capturing him and putting us up to his forays. within hours of the 1989 invasion of panama the administration of george w. bush declared that capture general man will noriega was the ultimate objective. in fact, the u.s. has deployed military force with the objective of killing or capturing one man nearly a dozen times since 1885.
6:09 pm
"wanted dead or alive" is the lessons america can learn from them. it's a reasonable question to ask the headlines of the next six months. with the modern tad much we care about the cover is pursuit and the marines hunt for nicaragua and spiritual leader more than 80 years ago. what applicability does it have to laze these days? besides the cool venture stories the reality is operations targeting individuals increasingly be attracted to u.s. policymakers for several reasons. as colin powell noted in his memoirs reflecting from noriega as chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, when that policy is more, it is tough to arouse political public opinion against political abstractions. expression blend to lancers better. beyond the american tendency to personally conflict, american sensitivity to noncombatant casualties on the abilities of
6:10 pm
individuals by deleting rogue states or terrorist networks to threat u.s. interest to be magnified by the evolution of technology, especially growth of the international media and diffusion of weapons of mass destruction and the increasing talladega tool technology. at the same time the ability of u.s. forces to target individuals with precision guided munitions will make such operations increasingly tempting. but rather than make war on populations there'll be a strong motivation to kill or capture individual or rogue leaders to threat our national security. given the probability of future strategic manhunts come it's therefore important to give lessons learned as to why some campaigns succeed or why some feel or what if for example it took 13 years to get bin laden when the average successful manhunt propriety to 18 months. based upon 125 years of american manhunts hays hammond in "wanted dead or alive" had come to for
6:11 pm
counterintuitive conclusions. first come onto your source is almost always enjoy imaging technology over their core, the advantages really decisive. ever since general nelson miles directed heliograph stations throughout the area of operations in the geronimo campaign can u.s. forces have attempted to have alleged technology. in recent manhunts in which we've deployed incredibly sophisticated intelligence and reconnaissance assets, sensors and satellites had known she can't technology has vetoproof role. either saddam or bin laden was located by drones, nor were voices or that of al qaeda in iraq leader abu sii was a carteret. the voices were never captured. for every technology there is a countermeasure or still to force commander pete laver argues, reality and complex to play virtually guarantee there'll never be an all-purpose technological panacea for finding people.
6:12 pm
my second conclusion is more troops to not guarantee success. this is the most surprising or controversial conclusion as it's become conventional wisdom that reason bin laden escape from bora bora in 2001 was because the bush administration to go to deploy u.s. troops. if the history of u.s. strategic manhunts suggest additional troops are not a guarantor of success for punitive expedition against wachovia to put this has been a troops 10,000 in pursuit of via that route amo campaigned which at the time is a quarter of the united states army over exactly the same terrain. it was the smaller man hunt was successful and only because the party of five track down -- successfully tracked the apache leader and convince them to surrender. similarly hunts for noriega both involved roughly 20,000 troops pursuing an individual in an urban environment, yet one succeeded where the other field, suggesting troop strength is not the decisive burial.
6:13 pm
also, one could also point out the small advisory teams not large to planets were what were instrumental to the capture successional hunts for pablo escobar. with regard to tora bora, it is doubtful that a larger u.s. force would increase the chances of capturing bin laden. cia official in charge of the agency's afghan campaign told president bush in early december that quote, no one has been a trip to prevent any possibility of escaping a reason like that. if we apply to planers of march 2002's operation anaconda assumption that it would take between 90 to 100 troops required to block each path incomparable terrain in the valley. it would've taken between 9000 in 1500 u.s. troops to complete the cordon off the 100 to 150 passes a potential escape routes out of tora bora, a number that
6:14 pm
was logistically impossible to deploy in december 2001. moreover, delta force commander at tora bora compared to the afghan forces would've either turn on additional u.s. forces or best just got home leaving u.s. forces operating behind in the mountains. two historical operations over similar terrain provide useful counterfactual to discredit was about tora bora appeared in march 2002 after three months of bin laden's cave, roughly two dozen u.s. troops were deployed to the château valley in eastern afghanistan to attract several hundred al qaeda fighters and suspected winter valleys. as sean naylor notes not a good day to die, at least as many al qaeda versus cuckoo code has died there despite reliance on u.s. can additional forces. where is the bush administration has been faulted for not deploying additional 803,000 forces depending on which academic or ttc on it in the 1930s and 40s the british
6:15 pm
hunted the rebellious religious leader in waziristan with 40,000 troops over the same terrain in waziristan, but never caught to pray. in reality because of the need for operational surprise, smaller is often better in strategic manhunts. this was counter to everything. we think we need a lot of people, but that often takes off with the operation is. when general miles ordered cuba not to approach the hospital the apaches with fewer than 25 soldiers, kate would disobey recalling how come i couldn't get anywhere geronimo 25 soldiers. the marine officer involved in the hunt for sandino in nicaragua from 192-72-1932 noted kurdish parties have troops had not the mobility necessary to overtake bandits. of course the small package comprised of two dozen seals and five helicopters that is of the
6:16 pm
national enquirer to speeten, one can't be allowed a measure of operational supplies critical to success is the main raid on about a god to kill bin laden. the third conclusion is about to rain is a factor, whether it's a tank operations raid it does not predict manhunts. u.s. forces have successfully tracked down turn it in jungles, environments and also failed in each train as well. with regards to bin laden although the terrain at tora bora certainly complicated pursuit of this party, it wasn't decisive from 1990 to 2001 and from 2006 to 2011 he was stationary and it was an intelligence problem, not a terrain problem. finally more important than physical terrain is what i call him a drink which refers to the attitude the local population amongst which the target operates, especially where where the determined availability of human intelligence of indigenous
6:17 pm
forces that u.s. troops can ally with. whether there is your border across which the target can escape. intelligence, particularly provided a local sources or operators become the targets to her, so it's proved more important and advanced technologies and satellite intercepts your photos. if the target is perceived as a hero to robin hood figure, the peasants of northern mexico nicaragua or the passions of eastern afghanistan view bin laden, protection by the local population will thwart most any number of satellites. conversely the target has committed acts to detest in the area of operation as was the case is geronimo, she guevara, noriko, pablo escobar, saddam mercer coit sanctuaries and available intelligence will produce jesus. this last 90 minute can say from experience udc it is deeply unsatisfied for policymakers. you don't get to blame something
6:18 pm
if it comes down to some want an answer of well, sounds pitches are easier to catch, although that's true. some variables are critical to success.under the control of commanders at the outset of a man hunt. nevertheless the united states has been much more successful than is commonly realized in conducting manhunts. when i first had the idea for this project and this is a great state testament to procrastination, i first had the idea back in 2003. i didn't typewriting until 2008. at the time saddam was still at large. .com down was just on dvd in the u.s. was historic refi about attendance to teach it in a and seemed like a fairly futile or haphazard endeavor. with the killing of osama bin laden in may, we are eight of the lebanese campaigns. despite the record of success, i found and wanted to be able to write some mean to say of course we need to go after these guys.
6:19 pm
this is what will win the wars. i found that targeted individuals seldom correlates the strategic success. this is because the hot forces of targeting underground which is strategically ineffective and why we are strategically successful even if the quarry escapes such as punch of you never threaten u.s. border for sandino failed to take over or destabilize nicaragua despite being unloose for six years. however this also creates is for actors to subdue the floor, which is strategic threat can continue with the target is the limit needed. when pablo escobar was killed the nexus of trafficking from club just shifted from india and and the killing of zarqawi cell tumor decisive turning point in the insurgency does hope for at the time. ultimately the campaign strategic outcome hinders chiefly on whether the man hunt disrupts the targets or support
6:20 pm
our work which was the key strategic success were geronimo they had a cool policy, but it would dislocating as exiling toilet and strategy and noriega are they eliminated a support structure in the panamanian defense forces before they eventually elicited his surrender out of the vatican embassy. but as i noted at the outset, the policy implications, the heart of the book is the adventure stories behind the man hunt. these campaigns were tom clancy -esque thrillers but in real life filled with drama, tragedy, courage and a gallery of larger-than-life figures in the men pursued in the american warriors dedicated to apprehending. excuse me once that. click to read three excerpts from the book to sort of chemistry. starting off with my favorite bad guy of the word. historical revisionism has been
6:21 pm
kind to many individuals targeted by u.s. strategic manhunts. geronimo and punch he had been romanticized hollywood. the gusto, sandino in shared icons to leftists throughout the world. even osama bin laden was reared by significant proportion of the islamic world despite the large number of months is killed in al qaeda's attacks. despite the appealing image of a third world david battling class of the u.s. what terry is highly unlikely history will be so kind to general man while antonio noriega. most of america's apparent tightness has an admirable quality, with a sheer physical courage or commitment to cause the weather misguided it's difficult to find any redeemable traits and noriega. short course and alcoholic with a reputation for violence, and noriega was stuck with what he knew her pineapple in reference to this interface. give us that he treated everyone
6:22 pm
he encountered. assistant secretary, elliott abrams recalled the dictator is a remarkably ugly man his true nature as shown through, greasy and thoroughly offputting. colin powell not burnley man given hyperbole recalled meeting noriega. i found him an unappealing man with his pockmarks is coming eternity nice enterica swagger. i had the calling sensors in the presence of evil. or as james baker, then secretary of state would've more colloquially colloquially, noriega was the case of what we in texas called a chilling. noriega enjoyed a productive relationship with u.s. intelligence agencies and served as an important conduit for usaid supporting the congress. he who does noriega contras he was shipping arms to marxist cult in el salvador who oppose the government. he was also known to be passing classified permission to cuba
6:23 pm
and libya and warsaw pact states. the 1980s had a noriega was hit with a rate terrorist organization such as radical factions of the palestinian organization in the club and 19 croupier despite the pattern of doubledealing -- the great quoted secretary of state george shultz observed you can't pay noriega. you can only rent them. now, prior to the invasion noriega had been tracked by members of delta force you to pay experts national security council. the surveillance and intelligence code-named codes take -- excuse me centris paik reported directly to general thurman and was monitored telephone communications and directed a network of informants patrice dictator's movements. noriega's last known location on december 19 when the u.s. invaded 23,000 troops was at 6:00 p.m. shortly thereafter he left in a convoy of cars and buses south towards panama city.
6:24 pm
part of the convoy turned off the road was to reassert for his or the others tended towards the command if he had, pentagon. the joint operations command was confident that noriega had not returned to headquarters they could not definitely say where he actually was. at each our u.s. troops raided the beach house in his apartment near cologne and son both empty. this is a great puzzle. 13,000 troops stationed in panama. every intelligence asset looking after them. why could we find him under those circumstances? in reality, create a returned iraqi pm heading straight towards the panamanian defense force. despite mounting evidence of the impending invasion he dismissed the possibility of the u.s. attack in reports of mobilization of disintegration deciding and he proceeded to get drunk. eventually another form of
6:25 pm
entertainment you did become a sergeant on the staff was dispatched to pick up a and intoxicated strongman of the reparations and her pdf rest area east of airfield. italians have been arrested at 1:00 a.m. with a thumping sound ec 130 gunship to 105 limiter can prepping the objective for the first ranger battalions assault. noriega's bodyguard went outside and saw the sky to 750 parachutes upon the airfield. castillo rushed inside to collect his thoughts dictators entourage piled into the two hyundai hatchbacks. in other words, the region u.s. colleges can find as he was hiding to coat a. the avenues of escape were slammed shut. the avenues were slammed shut european amount by various special operations force. the mission of hunting for noriega was given to the tulsa
6:26 pm
force. for intelligence deemed credible, delta for cisco from tip to take off in 30 minutes between december 21 through the 24 launched 42 raids on every known or did safe house for noriega could hide. for hotel to his considerable skill they could apparently never catch up to be able to dictate. once they thought they were getting close on one seaside -- often they thought they were close. u.s. forces homeless cigarettes warm coffee cups. other locations on soldiers. but no matter how badly they kick down the doors were ported to windows, operators told noriega had just left her with another location. as a cycle repeated itself after the invasion, reading truth ministries of the discoveries. at the residence of four domino or come u.s. troops on pictures of hitler and extensive collections, he which is diary
6:27 pm
chronicling visits from to voodoo priest from disco and 50 kilograms a white powder initially believed to be coke later identified as flour for make tamales. noriega's home, delta uncovered more stacks of hard-core to religious altars, one is decorated with jars containing origins, but still human internal organs, but no sign of noriega. as they say, you would think you couldn't make this up. and yet when they've uncovered bowl mark of his palaces, et cetera, he is not quite this weird, but he has his own large collection of very weird things. it is one of the things attribute to this project as this is nonfiction but you couldn't make this up anyways. no one of my disappointments as i've said this whereas a lot of targets the u.s. interventions
6:28 pm
that manhunts have become legends, a lot of american military heroes have slipped into an security. one when individuals henry lawton. lawton was an 18-year-old lawsuit and when fort sumter was hired on in 1861. he immediately trots out and much of the union army and 520 battles and eventually rose from rank of private to kernel over the force of the word appeared in may 1886 in general miles took command of the stole geronimo campaign via some other company of what they described as the 100 best athletes in u.s. calvary in handpicked to be done. l-lima six outside 235 pounds which today would mean he'd only be an average college linebacker on a college football team. back then he was what one contemporary described as it can take beowulf is a man. back in the 1880s i would have been a linebacker on the average college team.
6:29 pm
over the next two months, lawton and his marched nearly 100,000 desert mountains pursuing geronimo. although they never cocky apache's pursuit helped convince trauma to surrender to gatewood in august 1886. consequently because his company never support a geronimo span across the border, lawton became famous as the man who captured geronimo. status over 13 years. ..
6:30 pm
these whispers were confirmed on march 17 when a six-foot five-inch officer with an iron gray mustache and hair over a ruggedly handsome face stepped off the transport at manila. major general henry lawton arrived in the philippines. as one historian noted, lawton was "america's kitchener who enjoyed -- with the politicians and press. in addition to his reputation as an indian fighter he was a national hero for leading the attack on cuba the previous year. in military bearing, he was a model officer. he was known as a fighting calvary man who unlike the meticulous otis disliked red tape. where is otis jealously guarded his resources repeatedly
6:31 pm
postponed, lawton was vigorous and energetic and was thought to be the ideal commander for the philippines for. "the new york times" declared quote, the puffed up crackbrained egoist had to realize there were no match for the man who captured geronimo are go privately, even general arthur macarthur, douglas macarthur saga, hoped otis would soon be recalled and replaced by the more aggressive lawton. yet lawton carried a dark secret with him. normally easy-going lot and had a drinking problem dating back to the 1880s that produced violent fits of temper when he was intoxicated although usually able to control the consumption he was relieved of his military governor of the santiago of district under the pretense of ill health. before leaving for the philippines, lawton was summoned to the white house to meet face-to-face with president mckinley for a lecture on temperance. laughton promised the president to abstain from drinking in his new command and deploy to the philippines with two battalions
6:32 pm
from the 17 imagery and one battalion of the fourth infantry. laughton on her his promise and set out to live up to their reputation he earned nearly 40 years of warfighting. where otis seldom left the headquarters and never lets manila lawton led from the front with little regard for his personal safety. lot and quote looks like a hero, talk to you hero and acted like a hero walking erect even as he paced back and forth behind the firing lines wearing a white pith helmet polished until it shone like the headlight of an engine before each battle. reporters accompanied him -- and enlisted men whose private nations in danger he shared. at may 17 a lot in scouts capture filipino capital at san isidro narrowly missing missing aguinaldo himself yet when he sought permission to continue to add one although's otis refused effectively terminating lawton's expedition. lot and returned to manila and
6:33 pm
stormed into a otis' cluttered office. otis were given to regimens that would allow him to arm, equipment provision, would turn him loose and stake his reputation as a soldier in his position in the united states army that within 60 days he would end the war and would deliver to otis aguinaldo dead or alive. otis listen calmly before giving a rare laugh. lot and left to otis' office even more livid than when he had arrived. the spring offensive is was cut short by the monsoon and failed to capture aguinaldo. in the fall enough all otis launched another offensive although it effectively dispersed the filipino army was one step behind aguinaldo. 60 filipinos led by at one although's best friend held off 900 infantrymen in a battle known as the philippines thermopylae and held americans long enough to allow aguinaldo to slip across the mountains into the dark interior.
6:34 pm
where we continue the story. laughton requested permission to cross the mountains into the valley before aqua and although got settled and against otis' orders. the brain of man company under captain joseph ashlar on the reduced version of the plan. batchelor did not find aguinaldo but met with surprising success with colonel sharon assembled to him with 1100 men and 800 rifles. otis recalled lawton in manila and to take charge of the campaign to mop up the residual resistance around the capital. somewhat less than glorious duty with the highest-ranking generals of the army. on december 18, lawton led a small patrol to san mateo a village 18 miles northeast of manila. in a driving rain, the u.s. forces encountered an insurgent force awaiting them in trenches near the manna keno river. laughton paced back and forth behind the american firing line personally ordering his soldiers
6:35 pm
lord. the filipino general likely searching for a clear reference.which is direct fire to the downpour directed his death shooters to concentrate their fire on the small figure rank the brilliant white pith helmet and bright yellow rain slicker. one of the aides the lawton sided with him thereafter. laughton carried with him to sheldon despite his promise to retire to a safer position returned at the firing line. suddenly he made an awkward motion front of his face. what's the matter general? remaining aid. i am shocked lawton replied. where? through the lungs. blood pouring from his mouth his tall frame swung to the wet ground. within minutes the most beloved officer in the philippines possibly in the united united ss army was dead his head resting on the fly of his staff officer. indicates a tragic irony lawton was struck down by soldiers led by the filipino general by geronimo.
6:36 pm
and then finally, strategic manhunts, one other thing that i learned that i didn't know when i began this book, the strategic manhunts are significant because they witness some of the most important tactical and technological innovations in u.s. and international military history. given our proximity -- proximity to colorado springs it should be noted that the punitive expedition against the 1916 mark the first american deployment of the military aircraft. the sandino affair was history's first use of divebombing enclosed air support for a decade prior to its more famous use in the spanish civil war in the first deployment of the stealth bomber. the punitive expedition poncho villa saw reported mechanized infantry assault in may of 1916 which i will account for you. in the first two months of the punitive expedition u.s. forces narrowly missed capturing the upshot of his own men at a battle in march and was evacuated from the city of
6:37 pm
carero to the north as u.s. trips were coming in from the south. by may however increasing tensions between u.s. forces and mexican government forces halted operations. however, the punitive expedition enjoyed some success in hunting wachovia's subordinates. lieutenant george s. patton, 30 years old with a tall, thin reidy voice officer already renowned as one of the army's best athletes in pistol shots. when he learned in of march that his regiment would not be going to mexico, patton literally begs the persians to take them along offering to perform any task no matter how menial. while purchasing feed in rubio patton noticed the group of 50 or 60 unarmed mexicans. one of the guys recognize quote a number of old friends among them. although poncho villa was hiding somewhere south of pearls, the
6:38 pm
commander of the disk drive is general julio patania's was believed to be hiding in the vicinity of rubio. patton and his party the corporal six privates, holmdel on another interpreter drove to where patton interrogated his uncle. the uncles nervousness aroused patton's suspicions in on a hunch he ordered his convoy to drive six miles to the ranch where cardenas's families were rumored to be residing. as patton's are sped for the house he sucked real men and away skinning a cat when the front yard east of the house. one of the men ran into the house but quickly returned and resumed his work. patton's are halted at the west corner and two other cars to get position in the southwest. carrying a rifle who raced along the edges. two soldiers -- along the southern gulf by the privates covered the windows in case the mexican jumped out. when he was 15 yards from the
6:39 pm
large arched door three men, three armed men on horseback purged out of the house. singh patent standing with his pistol drawn, they dashed toward the southeast corner until this also just coming from the south. mexicans turned and watched a path. one bullet through and i fired back five times from a range of 20 yards. to patton's shots hit their targets. when entering of course the belly and the other breaking the writer's right arm. patton soldiers began firing from the southeast corner putting patton in the line of fire. patton dodd behind a corner and reloaded his -- and cover them in adobe does. consequently he did not see the man he had shot turn back to the houses courtyard. when patton came around the corner again, he was nearly stampeded by horsemen. patton fired and rod is crashing down on the writer. when the mexicans disentangled himself patton and several other americans cutting down at a
6:40 pm
range of about 10 yards. the third writer had made it 100 yards east of the hacienda before the soldiers fired at him. he pitched forward dead in the sand era stonewall. two of the three mexicans were now dead. the first man who had reentered the inner patio and climbed out a window spotted running from the gate in the southwest corner toward the nearby fields when the fuselage brought him down. when holmdel approached the man quote held up his left hand in surrender but when holmdel was 20 feet from him he raised an shot at holmdel and unfortunately missed him and holmdel blew out his brains. these were patton's words from his journals. search of the hacienda turned up no further -- only cardenas families. nobody would identify the bodies however so the corpses were strapped across the heads of the three automobiles by hunting trophies. as they prepare to leave patton saw some 40 men on horseback racing toward the hacienda likely intending to rescue cardenas. outnumbered the americans were
6:41 pm
treated when the first manned patton had shot was identified as the head. purging aloud for patton to keep cardenas and began referring to miss ms. avanda promoted him to first lieutenant. the rubio ax blade quickly appeared in the u.s. press and newspaper readers were thrilled to have an attractive young hero with him they could associate with punitive expedition. this was again a launching of patton's theme. meanwhile in mexico, the americans buried the rapidly decomposing mexicans against the backdrop of a blood red sunset a veteran sergeant offered an impromptu eulogy. ashes to ashes and dust to dust, if poncho villa won't dare you uncle sam must. and again it struck me on almost every case that there was an anecdote that an avid student of military history that i could never did quite decide whether or is going to be a policy book they read like a novel or a cool
6:42 pm
tom clancy book that had some policy lessons to it. i am happy that so far the feedback has been that i have achieved both and with that i would be glad to answer any questions that anyone might have. >> do you know why? >> that is one of the ministries. the story is that charles gatewood was one of the most talented young army officers. he was with the six-calorie. the reason that most people believe is because the fourth calvary wanted the credit. he was trusted by the apaches and said he led a five-man. he was very sickly and he could barely stand up to the rigors of all they writing they had to do but accept the mission of going but they could never catch geronimo to go and try because geronimo trusted him to try to convince them to send --
6:43 pm
surrender but afterwards general mild was outwardly, who was incredibly shelby say ambitious to be generous to him, his uncle william tecumseh sherman said that we could never satisfy your ambition and less we made you general the army and president of the united states united states at the same time. ted roosevelt later was chief of staff of the army in the late 1890s, early 19th century had roosevelt called him something like a strutting peacock. so he basically in all the after action reports cut gatewood out of the credit as to who captured geronimo. and gatewood lived a fairly tragic life. his health would never recover from most expeditions but the curious thing about that is that miles supported, when he sought to transfer miles was effusive in his praise for him so it was a very mixed bag. gatewood does not get enough credit for although in the
6:44 pm
movie, which is not very historically accurate, the character, the gatewood character receives full credit oregon warren laughton doesn't even appear as a character in it. but that's an excellent point and i discussed that very briefly at the end of the geronimo chapter. >> the federal bureau of investigation and the united states marshal service are in the business of tracking wanted criminal fugitives. would you have any messages for those agencies on how they could be more effective? >> i don't, i look at it -- a very different phenomena and i had to make a conscious decision at the beginning of this. there are some incredible stories and and i'm forgetting the name right now the book about the hunt for eric rudolph. there are some great work that has been done on it, but a think looking at a hostile -- i look
6:45 pm
at a very hostile environment versus looking at fugitives in a domestic setting. i really think there are two very different, comparing apples and oranges to an effect. maam? [inaudible] someone like noriega where there has been a past relationship with the u.s. versus someone where there hasn't been any kind of relationship? >> the funny thing is in a lot of the manhunts, i was very surprised by how many of them we had. we did have a past relationship with that we had cooperated with aguinaldo for the first, for the first four months or so after the battle of manila in may. he actually came to, he came aboard in may after the battle. he came on admiral dewey ship. admiral dewey gave him arms and told him go and continue your revolution. we worked with them in the siege
6:46 pm
of manila and he permitted the u.s. troops to come aboard. he captured a good deal of the island on his own and allow the u.s. troops to land on luzon island and then, he went from being very well thought of to being a bad guy. same thing poncho villa actually and i discussed this a little in the book, because of the mexican revolution, he actually has a lot of supporters within the wilson cabinet, but he did things directly in meeting up to the columbus raid. they massacred -- his forces massacred something like 16 american minors in january of 90 been -- 1960 that cause the opinion of him to change. similarly with noriega who said, so there is a history but there was a relationship. i hate to say the united states can be fickle, at least in those past cases. i would like to think we are a little bit better, a little more
6:47 pm
steadfast with our allies now but i think in some cases it has been sometimes international politics. you have to occasionally make accommodations with less than, people with less than perfectly clean hands and circumstances can change that their past transgressions come back and have to undo at some point. at that is an excellent point. that is happened surprisingly frequently in the history of u.s. strategic manhunts. sir? >> is they are as rich a history of other countries, governments going after an individual most wanted? do we have lessons to learn or to teach to other countries? >> that could be a sequel but strategic manhunts are civilized warfare and after the battle of aguinaldo, alexander pursued, he defeated darius' army and the persian army was his but he
6:48 pm
didn't consider it completing tell he captured darius and chased him from mosul in northern iraq all the way to the eastern border of the persian empire. similarly the romans spent 20 years after the second -- chasing hannibal because they feared hannibal so much so even in the 1640s the virginia colonial militia chased, and i can't pronounce, his name is about 20 letters. i can't pronounce his name or the tribe, but a tribal chieftain in southern virginia that they spent two years chasing him. the british have some of the more obvious examples. in the 19 teens and the 19 arts in 19 teens day chase the mad mullah in somalia. i could not pronounce his actual name, it was a rebellious cleric. the same with waziristan so in british colonial rule there are a lot of examples of such manhunts. and i think it would be -- i did
6:49 pm
look at in this book. i think it would be a very interesting comparison to see if they had different experiences. and i can take one more question. >> adding up strategic perspective to all of these stories do you think it really grounded her book? in other words, he might've been criticized for just writing a super clancy novel based on true stuff? >> that is an interesting question. is hard for me. i have my doctorate in political science. you can take the boy out of academia. you can't entirely take the academia out of the boy. the same thing that my career has been in policy for the last 15 years, that it might be difficult for me to think of things in pure entertainment fashions about thinking what is the policy lesson to be learned that i would argue a broader point that i don't think that policy writing needs to be dry,
6:50 pm
needs to be dull especially when writing about history. history is very interesting and especially episodes such as this that have been lost at times that i think there is real value in showing the continuity between the men who wins 200 miles into mexico after geronimo or 100 miles behind enemy lines in the philippines to capture aguinaldo with the philippines at 1130 miles into pakistan. the roots of our military heritage and some of our strategic problems are much deeper than we tend to think of in the moment today. and with that, thank you very much. [applause] see this event was hosted by tattered cover bookstore in denver. for more information visit tattered cover.com. here's a short author interview
6:51 pm
from c-span's campaign 2012 bus as it travels the country. >> ken beckwith, political women and american democracy. how did you decide which essays to include in this work? >> might co-editors and i organized with a grant from the annenberg foundation a project on american democracy at the university of notre dame that we would convene by our estimation the best scholars on women in politics in the u.s. not only in the u.s., but colors who were working on u.s. women and politics. so it brought together a range of people. the research we knew well and convene for a two-day h two-day conference and at that conference we discussed all the many -- manuscripts that constitute the chapters of this book and had have some commentary about it in discussion and then put it together in an edited collection
6:52 pm
which cambridge university. >> described the role of women in this book. >> let me tell you what we are not doing this book. we are not looking at public policy per se. we are not looking at women in the executive because even the 2008, there were so few women in the executive man not yet a major female candidate for the nomination for president of a major political party in the united states. very few women at the executive was -- level which meant the research was not there and we didn't address women in the judiciary. what did we address? we look at the bigger women as candidates for office posted a national office, the behavior women within political parties, the behavior of women once elected to national office. we also have a chapter that looks at the gender and nature of u.s. political institutions as well as u.s. politics for
6:53 pm
women in politics in the context of comparative politics. that is what is the situation for women in politics look like in the u.s. compared to the rest of the world? we have one of the least prodigious least advantageous to let go systems at the national level for women which is a civil member of pour out the system is to some applications. we also have only two major political parties, which are informal in their internal construction, have no clear formal instructions for becoming a candidate, offer very little clear structural means by which women can work the party so to speak to increase them as candidacy so there are lots of disadvantages that women happening in mac in terms of achieving elected office. >> so in relation to the political parties, as a woman voter, what are the findings related to encouraging --
6:54 pm
directly related to women? >> their there are interesting things that make women a relevant demographic category. first there are more women and then men in the voting electorate. secondly women have slightly higher registration rates than do men and women turn out at slightly higher rates than do men. the larger number, absolute number of women combined with women's heightened turnout makes for a big electoral impact. women also were disproportionately democratic. this is true across all age groups and it is also true across all racial groups. racial and ethnic groups, women still have a slight preference for the democratic party compared to the men. so when we come into an election it seems like turnout in the range of issues that might attract women are very important. women are more likely than men to vote for the democratic presidential candidate. that has been the case since 1992.
6:55 pm
that has been between two percentage points to five percentage points depending upon the polls that you look at. nonetheless there is a democratic advantage in the electorate for the democratic party. in general, because of women. the absolute numbers that turnout in the process of the democratic party. the issues that seem to mobilize women and attract their votes have to do with the special welfare issues. have to do with foreign-policy issues and also to a certain extent so-called morality issues but on these women very then men in different directions. same-sex marriage, women are much less opposed than are men for example. not a huge margin but nonetheless there's a difference there. women are more concerned with foreign-policy security issues and that can have an impact on women's vote and finally women are more concerned about social welfare issues. these include things like health care, employment, the state of the economy and education.
6:56 pm
>> with a woman candidate for president coming into the campaign, do you see those preferences changing in 2012? or based on your research do you think that they will largely remain the same? >> first of all -- there are only two on the list that i know of. sarah palin has not yet declared and michele bachmann who is doing poorly in early returns are paul resorts in the republican party debates. and in the polling numbers for her. i don't see either a republican candidate. on the democratic side all things being equal the current president will be the party's candidate so that will foreclose any opportunity for women that party to come forward. so i see no presents for women as presidential candidates in 2012. we did say however that some
6:57 pm
polling, the most reason recent i have seen from 2008 coming in very early in 2008 presidential primary about 87% of americans said that they would vote for a qualified woman regardless of sex, that they would be as willing to vote for a woman as to vote for a man. americans are more willing to vote for someone who is african-american or someone who is jewish for president than they are for a woman and i think in that number is slightly lower than had been the previous result because in 2008 there was a clear potential female candidate in that was hillary clinton on the democratic side who ultimately failed to win the nomination. >> so what are the recommendation for women in that position running for office? did that matter come up in your book or said something a touch on on? >> we don't turn to the presidential specifically that we look at women candidacies for
6:58 pm
lower-level office. so a couple of recommendations. these aren't recommendations for women so let me make clear, we only need about 4000 women nationwide to contest and win elections to applicable representations in the senate senate and the house and the statehouses. there are that many elective office offices at the legislative level at least they require that we need a million qualified women. i think we can find 4000 qualified women to run. that is not the issue. the problem is not with women. the problem is with political parties and unavailable seed of access to candidacies bow through the incumbency as we do 83% of congress consisting of men and most of those men are -- and it would be difficult to bring openings for new candidates would whether the new candidates are women so part of it has to do with political parties willingness to persuade
6:59 pm
members of congress, seated members of congress to step down, willing to support women challenging incumbent within their own parties, willingness to recruit women for office. right now the big money people in the republican side are trying to recruit governor christie from new jersey to enter the presidential nomination race on the republican side which so far at least, he still has refused to do but there are women that might be recruited. there's some very good governors on on the republican side who might be recruited so at this point it is not the problem of women but the problem of parties and specifically i made at the republican party. women aren't represented in the democratic by a 3-1 advantage over republicans. >> thank you. >> you are welcome. >> the c-span 2012 plus business communities across the country. to follow the buses travel to visit

137 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on