terms. another quote that would struck put south carolina and georgia wouldn't abide any strictures on the slave trade. after the war a strange thing began to happen. oddly enough friends is the key to understanding the transformation in jefferson. when we think of france we think of sally and james having is, french food, jefferson getting to know french architecture and wine. even over there and very important national business he was there's trade representatives. we were desperate for money and a lot of money to the uso, enormous debts to britain and almost important export was a slave raised crops, tobacco. ..
we were just waiting for opinions to greg. benefits is really true, but it was in our interest for him to say that. oddly enough, check presented up sort this radical feeling over there in france and before he left, he told thomas paine, williams short, another abolitionists over there going to get back to america, he was going to train slaves, settle them on land at sharecroppers and the certainty they would become good citizens and free people in the united states. but when he got back to the
united states, things changed. he came back with his daughter, pat c. it turned out she needed a dowry because she met her husband, thomas mann randolph and they decided to get married in a hurry from the only way jefferson could set them up in the household was to give them land and a lot of slaves. he gave his daughter 25, little and big. he began to think of rebuilding monticello and he needed money they needed to rely on to retrain displaced worse. he suddenly called upon them to acquire a faster read new skills, which they did very, very quickly. so when i was following jefferson to the documents alone
my own timeline, i came across a document that disturbs many people since they put it in print, but not as much as it disturbs me when i found it. in a detailed financial memo, jefferson was kind of profits and losses of virginia plantations when it suddenly occurred to him there's a phenomenon in which he perceived a monticello but it never measured he preceded enclosed in brackets, but jefferson had realized for the first time as he was making a 4% profit every year on the birth of black children. didn't say people were joking him a bonanza, a perpetual dividend at compound interest. jeffersonville, i love the thing for losses by death, but on the contrary should take credit for% per year for their increase over and about their own numbers. plantation was producing and accessible assays.
to me this is stunning, even frightening discovery, knowing us thursday kitano have ever mentioned it. i thought it might be an outlier, an isolated document of this are jefferson often like to do. but in a subsequent letter, jefferson took the 4% formula further and advance the notion that slavery presented the investment for the future. he wrote back and equate into had lost money, should've been invested in. if the family had any cash left, every farthing should be laid out and land in negroes which brings to profit from 5% to 10% in this country pay the increase in the value. we might not grasp a literary man can notice on what siblings of slaves, but investments,
markets, silent crop we can recognize. from that moment to jefferson's life, everything changed in the slaves were doomed. a statistic emerged in the 1970s an economist at a hardheaded look at slavery. they found on the eve of the civil war, enslaved black people in the effort it forms the second most valuable asset in the united states. it was more valuable than railroads and banks and factories combined in the only thing more valuable with the land of the united states. in the 1790s we see fully much in such fully much in such a consummate politician, architect, engineer and entrepreneur slavery. he diversified industrial slavery watching in the olfactory cortex affect treat, sure to operation. as i mentioned before, displays readily adapted to learn a complex new skills. he had put all of this into operation by the mid-1790s
when one of his old friends from france, eight to came by and was astonished how about the monticello machine worked and how the slaves were well fed, well treated and that jefferson was a supervising the harvest all by himself, all alone and he seemed to be taking direct control of everything. the two could not restrain his admiration for what jefferson had done and it was an amazing thing to have accomplished so fast because that jefferson was in france committee said the slaves are like children and could never learn anything complex. that jefferson and slaves together had overturned that. slaves were clearly commented in the question racist scum is this attempt to begin setting people free? apparently not because jefferson no race is the objection that we cannot free slaves because we are afraid of the mixing of blood, the lack ludlam excess weight and at that point everything seemed unreal because
he could look around and see the racial mixing had already taken place. there were people on monticello mountain whose skin was so white that she couldn't even tell that they were black people. the roster of skills that these people had acquired is truly extraordinary, ranging from plowmen and women to coopers, dyer's, weavers, wonders, hairdressers, captain baker's and later on, some french visitors were amazed at a carriage they were riding in, and he asked where it came from a jefferson said well, my slaves made it. he couldn't get over the fact this thing had been manufactured by slaves. ironically, the slaves had condemned themselves. the more skilled they became, the more valuable they became in the more they tightened chains
of enslavement. but the machine functioning in equilibrium, the owner would never dismantle it. jefferson pioneered something else. he pioneered the modernization of slaves, for initialization of slavery. another document i came across some which i hadn't seen commented upon before with society finance the reconstruction of monticello in the 1790s partly through what we might call a slave equity loan. he bundled together 150 slaves and offer them as collateral to dench thank you have to do business within france inside which you take down as the collateral for his own? they said yes. so the bank opened a $2000 line of credit for jefferson at a philadelphia merchant house. and that was the money he drew upon to guide the construction materials that went into monticello.
now the surface of slavery that the duke had seen was on this earth is very, very genteel system. but that was only the top sites of monticello that he was seeing. the operation had a much harsher side to it further down the mountain. jefferson hated conflict and disliked having to punish people and in a fog of regret and denial hangs over the whole business. throughout his plantation records, their rented credit indications that the machine function not carefully calibrated violence parish ever since may first wish is to reverse the people treated, but what at first glance is an ironclad hummus turns out to be just that jefferson cespedes, a wish and as a qualifier. the second wish is they may enable me to have treatment continued by making mismatches will admit. meaning that they will treat you well, but if you do not produce enough, there will be harsh measures.
jefferson's overseer, william paige kreegel discussed. that's a good controller farms under the county and the judgment of white citizens page is a quote, terror, though colonel randolph was running the operation informed jefferson the slaves were discontented at for use at the lash. jefferson retained his ban for another two years. jefferson's other son-in-law alluded to the public sentiment against him when he sat to higher slaves from other painters, nobody would do business with him and ripped a terrorist page is same prevented the possibility of hiring him. in this regard in the 1950s, a tiny fragment of information about the monticello system so shut editors that he suppressed it from the record until recently the standard source for understanding of life but my cello has been edition of jefferson's farm book edited in
the 19th east by adam betts. the best edited his plantation with her, he confronted it to boot. randolph reported to jefferson is functioning well because the small ones are being ripped. they did not take willingly to being forced to show up in the midwinter hour before dawn at jeffersons forgione said the overseer was put demand for truancy. that's decided children being beaten had to be suppressed. the full text did not emerge until 2005 mbits deletion played an important role in shaping the consensus that jefferson managed plantations at the lenient hand. the management of temptations also had a psychological element. we often hear jefferson encouraged his slaves or three word and incentives and that he wanted them to have, to display
character. the character meant was not to have self-esteem, which is dangerous for a slave, but it is your docile. it meant that you did what you were told. there was a wrenching story that colonel randolph sat down about a slave, ammerman down the road from here, who was a slave said to have possessed a great deal of care here. he was the one who is trusted by the master when anything important had to be done. he was trusted to handle money and go on important aaron and he was highly regarded, but randolph got to know him and found out that the secret behind his airways he was terrified. he was terrified of being whipped and he formed a resolution never to do anything that would cause him to occur would be called strikes. one day he apparently left some tools out in the field and to make an example of him, a new overseer had an strip off his shirt and with tim.
the man was so humiliated that he went and hanged himself in front of the master's house. this was the occasion for a long, detailed in wrenching letter that colonel randolph wrote, describing this man in glowing terms as a man of great courage and character and in this letter, randles denounces what he calls the whole southern system is a hideous monster and describe something based totally on terror and nodded on this notion of carrot here. yet nothing bad to say about the slave, but described him as showing great courage in going off to death instead of trying to run away. to go back for a moment to the timeline, there are two basic benchmark events in jefferson's public life that i look at is displaying really his shift from one type of politician and
planetary to another. jefferson, the younger radical habit and turns of the ordinance of 1784 that would have banned slavery in any territory of the united states. since that jefferson wrote. after the year 1800 there shall be neither slavery or involuntary servitude. such a lot with the slavery on timetable. those who held slaves would've had 16 years to figure out of it, but the ordinance would've included mississippi and alabama and think of those two places being without slaves failed to pass in the car, congress with just one delegate from new jersey missed the boat to two elements. jefferson himself wrote that the fate of millions on board had been determined by the absence of this one man and joyce appleby, the great historian commented, saying up to the senate today before limitation on slavery had failed, jefferson backed away from attacking the
institution to do something about it increased. the other benchmark that i would like to point out is the louisiana purchase. there is a great opening of the west, the empire for liberty, but would require territory, there is a great debate in congress. should we have slavery there? congress came close to being in it and then pass restrictions that so outraged slaveholders who are already there but they threatened secession, to call in the polling backend. people said if you don't allow slavery, our lives will depreciate in value 50% and as all this was going on, it was a fresh moment. congress had the will to restrict slavery there. jefferson sent a message to swear manager in the senate saying slaves to be admitted to territory. and then he went on to aid in
the creation of the legal system and bureaucracy to manage slavery and the new territories to rare he referred to them as the father slavery in louisiana. so it's the man who stopped slavery from getting into the last to the man who helps to extend its reach into the new territories. i don't much like counterfactual is, but i'm going to end with one anyway because i think this one really could have happened. person oral history that is required in the 1940s by a woman named program who is trying to find information about sally hemming. she went to find as many descendents of my cello slaves that she could did she recorded a number of interviews. at one of them, a person says
something is striking. mr. jefferson misused large sums of money given to him for the benefit of the. when i first read this, it did make any sense at all. i didn't know what he could possibly be talking about innocent and that is made up, like people angry about slavery and wanted to get back in the search at same. visiting philadelphia one time i was wondering with my family through society and became to a house with a plaque that said this was the town has specifically polish patriot and hero of the american revolution had lived. so we went out there at the front side crochet skill and jefferson. i did know that much of a relationship at all, but i found to my surprise wishes go had
written it will enrich you that jefferson $20,000 to three as many slaves as me with my family and an livestock and pay for their transportation and education to someplace where they can live undisturbed as free people. it's interesting than this piece of information came out in the smithsonian magazine, a number of people said to me they've never heard of it. i said i never heard of it either until i stumbled across it in philadelphia. among a couple people have thoughts about this it hadn't occurred to me. when you hope your book is being made into a movie, who do you want to star in a quick people began to say, i wonder whom he could have freed.
people thought of john and priscilla hemings. they said well, maybe he could have freed some of his farmers and then someone said joe was a blacksmith and ed was his coat and it turned out in the action jefferson's estate after the war, after his death, joseph is the only one free. jefferson left the rest of the family and slavery a very scattered to different masters. joseph worked for 10 years at a sports, trying to earn the money to buy back his wife and all of his children. one of his children escaped from slavery, but he managed to get most of them back except peter, whose owner would never give them up.
suggested and edith had to leave charlottesville, leaving peter behind and they settled in ohio and the resulting years later when peter was bought out of slavery by his own friends in charlottesville that he was able to join them. i would like to conclude with chris to screws language. the interesting thing about this is jefferson drafted as well because in 1795, had finally gotten the payment that was coming to him for his service in the revolution. he was general engineer under george washington in as many you know to sign the fortifications at west point. his payment was long delayed and he finally got it in 1795. so he went to see his good
friend, jefferson and said, would you write a will with me? he may jefferson the executive and after they drafted -- before they drafted the documents, he had written something out in his own hand and i would like to read this to you in conclusion. i bake in case i should die, you should buy out of my money and a pretend that the remaining funds should be sufficient to give them education and provide for maintenance. that is to say each should know the beauty of this citizen of the free government that he must defend this country against foreign as well as internal enemies to have good inhuman heart, sensible for sufferings of others. each one must be married and have 100 acres of land with instrument for tillage and know
how to manage and govern as well as at neighbors, always with kindness and ready to help them. pencils frugal to their children get good education. i mean as to the heart and duty to their country. yet only one request you make of the people he expected to free spirit and gratitude to me to make themselves as happy as possible. it never happened and i will stop there and i'd be happy to take any questions if anyone has any. [applause] >> it is of course a terrible true in some slavery was about
making profit. but in the book, you seem to be suggesting something much more nefarious about the 4% that is consciously looking to engage in slave trading. when i saw that, it is a little counterintuitive because jefferson is not generally regarded as sacred businessmen. he died in that and the one exception documented did indeed make a profit. one of the problems is no one has done the economics. we've got billy ray smith beyond dance, who i'm hoping will be first person who adds that he agreed the best financial data of almost any individual in the 18th century, but norms than
the basic work of adding in detroit in sco's finances were. i wanted in order to really make this case he's benefiting from slave trading, does that one needs more than economic study? would she not need to have some chart into to that, paperwork? >> it would certainly be better to have more data, but the strongest evidence we have is from jefferson himself, when not only to the urges neighbors family to invest in negroes, but he said twice later in life that the women who bring a child every two years are more important to me than laboring hands because what they print is an addition to my capital. he said that twice later in his
life. i think it's perfectly clear that when he was handed $20,000 to free as many slaves as that money would die, he could treat to families, three families, histories. he could set the price that whatever he wanted to. he walked away from that money for two reasons. one is half would've gone to the slaves themselves because jefferson would've had to expend on purchasing land, livestock and equipment. but zero so comes the other thing is these people were important to the monticello machine, but also it is their reproductive value. he was very blunt about that essay just sit in the same twice later in his life that the women preemie assets. so he was not going to really wish assets like that, partly
because he wanted for themselves. he was quite deliberately piling up slave assets as a bulwark against the debts that are sent on his family when he died and oddly enough, when he had the money right in front of him and refused it, he was almost at the same time keeping saves a way his grandson, thomas jefferson randolph said jeff could be set up properly in his own household. zoning slaves was an excellent way to transfer well between generations. as for jefferson stats, that has been the problem has been greatly exaggerated and i think i won't speak for him, but i'd remember a conversation in which we agreed jefferson was a financial genius. i read the financials records in the letters. he was constantly refinancing is that it was able to find new sources of credit.
billy found he was a pioneer in the payday loan, which is something i didn't know. but i noticed he was always refinancing. i said to him, i don't see to restrain him in any way. you said no, he was a genius at it. keep in mind he built monticello twice. he built it before he went to france, with two friends, decided to sell another french architecture, came home and rebuilt it. when you get tired of that, he built another mansion outside of lynchburg. then he spent $30,000 on a mail and a canal at the bottom of monticello mountain. everything in it. so dad never restrained him from anything he wanted to do. one of the historians who study they think it was -- it was in -- stephen hawking said that if jefferson had decided to make a rather that this investment or
$2000, he probably would've been able to ride out the financial stories of the early 19th century. another analysis of the financial records showed jefferson, the slaves are productive farmers and in one of the worst decade for the american agricultural economy, jefferson lost very little money on his farming operations. so the slaves were holding their own when commodity prices for plunging. so jefferson just skips the need. to nail the coffin coffin was when he cosigned a load for his and mine 1820. he's needing someone to cosign a $20,000 note and a top jefferson into it in six months later but
encrypt. those are the letters from monticello became to give funny. >> i want to follow up -- [inaudible] >> already. of course after reading jim lewis' review yesterday, where she college or book wreck, i thought you'd want to use this to elaborate a little more on not. if you explained to the audience however where i'm confused is that with 18 months at his stats, the will was contested by three different parties, two in europe, one of the united states at that time. where that's her face three subsequent woes drawn up in
europe. and so i don't quite understand. and jefferson predicted at this point, he said this is going to fall into a lot of litigation. he said i think it's going to go past my lifetime. he was right. so he resigned as executor and sure enough, this litigation continued, finally wound up in supreme court, was resolved in 1852 in favor of the polish descenders. this is 26 years after jefferson's death. what i'm confused about is how did he ever have that money in front of him? the money was in the u.s. treasury at washington and he never had access to it. and after that then, it was tied up in the courts. so how could he have used this money to free slaves and how did he have the option of i don't want to free many slaves? i'm confused as to how we ever had access to those fun.
>> the will and it has been litigation because jefferson didn't act on it quickly enough. he had in his hand the letters say whatever you may hear from europe by intention for my american funds remains fixed, meaning hashish go, his intentions remains fixed. as mr. thomas jefferson looks into the alamo county courthouse with the will, a letter that says i want this acted upon, you think the court is going to delay? only because jefferson did i say. he didn't want to press it. anything else? >> john barnes has emerged in philadelphia. income from investments were going into a john barnes account on which jefferson hosted a tory
authority, power of attorney. $4000 of these went into that account and he said right of you use this money for the purposes and so he was using it like a good way of shorts money as collateral in this ingenious method of financial madness that makes today's financial managers the click takers. he was very skillful enough to have access to the money. there's a list of people. that's what he was able to live with the debt. >> did you see the letter written after jefferson started by randolph tried to revive the bill? he wrote to the lawyer in new york who is apparently controlling the funds and said, can we please revive this because i would like to get those funds and free some slaves. i don't know if you >> petite teen 16 will negated the previous close and that was
a decision the supreme court. it was a really uphill legal battle to try to get today. >> jefferson didn't have the legal system off at the past by pricing the boat when he had a chance. >> really could be because of his contested almost immediately by a armstrong saying a portion of that is my. [inaudible] >> the european errors eventually one. yes, they did. >> yes. >> i just got the book this morning, so i've only read the intro, but i was interested in the passage you quoted earlier about how jefferson had this plan in 1789 that he wanted to turn his own monticello slaves into good citizen and i studied
him a bunch and i've never seen a passage. what he's talking about is who says he wants to bring in german immigrants to be in ventures serving until intermingled with the slaves. he says their children will be freed. i had always interpreted that as him being a racist, same slaves can't become citizens, but indenture germans can. are you suggesting that he was imagining the intermingling to be enter marriage? >> no, no. go ahead. >> the letter clearly refers to the chairman's children that he's talking about. >> now, the follow-up commentary commentary -- >> i know in 1798 short makes almost the same raposo and explicitly calls for interracial marriage and interracial
children. >> that's totally different circumstances. >> is the same proposal. he's talking about german immigrants. in jefferson's letter -- i've written about it. i can show you the letters. in this latter can be steadily talking about the children of the turbines. >> no, he's talking about the children's slaves. that's what he told thomas pained because you're sick of the jefferson was engineering the expansion of slavery into the louisiana, thomas palfrey to admit that now is the time to revive the plane he talked about in paris. send slaves into the sea in a territory to sign contracts with planters will take them for a year or two and train them and then give them their own plots of land and 90 for event. he specifically referred to revising the plan we discussed in paris. so that's this plan.
>> this plan is talking about sending slaves to louisiana while the french still on it? >> no, no -- >> told the footnote is from 1789. >> what i meant ways been jefferson was in paris and when he had discussed his plan with edwarda kraft craft company not only disgusted with short, the thomas pained because they made our decision came again about whether we would have slavery in louisiana, thomas paine reminded the president of what he had proposed in france, namely outlined in the bankrupt letter. to bring citizen for a short amount of time, to teach them proper bus of agriculture and set them free. >> okay. >> it's very clear that jefferson is talking about.
>> i mean, it says right here, i was so the german send slaves, each intermingled and placed the money footing. their children shall be brought up and how is a property and i have no doubt they will be good citizens. so it's referring to the german. >> we connected this later, nick. our antecedents are mixed at. >> you've got a comparison with george washington. washington of course freed slaves on instead. washington story, which she wrote about in your last book. but no one of course took this
issue on while they were president because they would be in political suicide and in fact, jefferson recognized at the end of his life would not only be suicide amid the potential civil war that the missouri compromise which talks about far better than they. the first time he recognizes the great war might i would not necessarily be in europe, which he does believe fighting between republican and monarchical regimes, but could well be fighting between slavery and an attendance. jefferson does give us a reason for not freed his slaves and you're quite right, he never intended to free them, even if he had been in debt. but he did argue that to do so would be civil war and that the
only solution would be a colonization scheme in which all slaves moved, whether it be the caribbean, west are back to africa. and of course you could argue that was just self-justification. but it's also a reason worth considering. i came at this very differently. as a scholar working on the british caribbean. these are some of the most brutal regimes anywhere. i was very aware that it never bothered about tomorrow's issue of slavery, never discussed it before and during the american revolution. the first place it's really discussed us here in america. and even perceives british abolition debate. and to be remarkable if slave regimes throughout history, but
it's only in the western only in the 18 century that you have abolition movement, people actually questioning the morality of slavery. so to me, jefferson was remarkable in that he actually questioned the sysadmin had in us empathy to realize that slaves freed with these so angry at the way they were treated that they might actually rebel. >> jefferson was wrong about the blacks because when they were freed, there was no general rebellion after 1865. there's no mass mass slaughter former masters. jefferson throughout his life in the revolutionary war -- it was a bit of a shock to him because a number of slaves ran off and joined the british to get their
freedom and he never forgave him for that and that overrode the loyalty that more slaves had shown to the american cause. it overrode the fact that first of all i should mention george washington had integrated the american army in 1775. blacks fought throughout the word washington's army and jefferson never once as governor offered freedom to any of his slaves would fight for the american cause. but the disloyalty of a relatively small number of slaves, perceived disloyalty looms large in jefferson's mind in the loyalty of the other blacks to completely discount heard and then he wrote this fantasy in this in the city set like people could have been worth of this country because they had been held in slavery here. now his own slaves, martin
hemings, caesar and greek church granger had risked their lives to save jefferson's life and property during the war. jefferson davis well when he was readiness in the state of virginia. he didn't play into his calculations. anyway, i would bring up cassandra prentice, but that's going a little too far. [inaudible] >> came to realize that part of this letter by thomas mann randolph describing the whipping of the vanilla replace was delighted in this handbook of monticello that was agitated 1953. how could you find that piece? >> well, like everybody else in the early two thousands, i was still relying on the 1950s edition of the farm book, which contains it photographic facsimile of the actual leisure
with 500 pages of documents and letters about the management of the plantation. the letter that everybody site says that colonel randolph writes saying he's doing well and nobody's been wiped at the end it says the ellipsis. he said no one is being a whacked. as the new additions of jefferson's papers have been coming out, i made it a habit to look at each volume and all letters headed to do with slavery to see what was newly emerged. i also have backers in the series when i got to the volume to cover that year, i was systematically reading every letter and i came to that letter and had a line at ever seen before. goes like this plan had miraculously appeared. i thought that was the day appeared to the two in order to which offer massachusetts historical society and the original letter said nobody is with except the small one.
which entirely reverses the meaning of the letter. so this is what people were prepared to do to protect mr. jefferson's reputation. to me that was a real turning point that the children are being whipped, jefferson was informed it took no action to stop it. [inaudible] [inaudible] inadmissibility freeze three of the four most valuable slaves and monticello. euphrates by master blacksmith,
he frees the master butler and glaser and the master daughter of john hemings. my calculation, that's about one 10th of the value compared to the other 126 saves her rocks off that day. so what you make of that gesture? >> sure. i'll just repeat the question because i don't know that he was picked up by the microphones. he asked the question, why did jefferson essentially free some of his most valuables waves? >> well, two of the slaves for his own children from aston and madison had made. why he freed the other three i don't know. i don't know if he had made a prior promise to them. they were certainly very
valuable servants to him. they were all related to him. they were related to him through his life, but i honestly can't answer that question. i don't know how he chose them. >> thank you for the scholarship event to bring bring this information forward. but i'm interested in the psychology of jefferson. mr. shaughnessy was presented with us what i think it's been a basic knowledge of jefferson up until now a method very pinker, great philosopher, very religious in its own way, spiritual and seeing slavery, but in this big picture of history and how it might influence. your work seems to have brought out a different psychological jefferson that were not very familiar with.
do you see the split in him? he compartmentalize his to the extent where he can be this philosophical thinker and see slavery as all the things mr. shaughnessy has shown us, the danger of freeing slaves than on the other hand this other side of him, this business i which is a a surprise to me. i'm not a scholar or historian, but that is this other part of jefferson that even he himself bb was in denial about and yet he was good at. >> well, i don't see him as compartmentalize. that is the formulation joseph it and i just don't buy it. it's based in large measure on things jefferson said about slavery and many of the statements that he made, some of his most ringing anti-slavery
statement within agronomist issued its press releases from the white house or put on billboards or in newspapers. these were private responses he wrote for roughly 1790 until his death to various progressives and abolitionist who came to him. people like william coles and lafayette, again had to do some thing to end slavery. and he would put them off and say the time is not yet afraid. we hope the wolf by the ears are these people are too. anyway people to their minds, but all these excuses, there are privately written. so jefferson had a phrase for this. he called them his soft answers that he wrote to people, to abolitionist pestering him. he was a master correspondent. so many of these things are not meant for public gumption.
they were just private letters. >> i just realize time is running out. jefferson of course is a convenient shorthand for talking about the problem that the existence of slavery in early america, that the rights of liberty was accompanied by the system in which it cited the population enslaved. the british naturally like to to be morally superior during the revolutionary war. samuel johnson famously said in seven to 76, why is it that first liberty are masters of slaves, but they themselves at large down in the british caribbean is the subject of perennial interest. i'm grateful for you talking about the main purpose of the
>> they made credible contribution that came after the war. if you think about it, all five of these guys made profound contribution to the journalism that really defined our childhood and adulthood. it's not just cronkite and not just bernie. of course became so noted for their work with cbs, that really defined the print journalism i i was first at the near caro tribune later york times. the plane who wrote a great column criticizing the price and assassinated the world postwar america at "the new yorker" and howell boyle who ended up when he finally retired in the early 1970s to have written more words for the great fire service than any of porter and his history. >> so all five of these men were in the war theater quite >> they sure were and they were together.
cronkite, bickerton would be a tender ages covered war against germany when that was about the only meaningful action going on in the european theater against hitler. so from december 1942, forgot the next year, cronkite and bernie baker were together almost every day covering the bomber boys to the incredibly brave missions over germany. they were among the first handful of reporters allowed to fly along on a b-17 in p. 20 bombing mission over germany, which they date to appear in 1843, very early on. they were through the charter members of what is known as the fighting 69th, fraternity of reporters by the eight they are going to fly daunting shins. >> how much journalism did each other in the war? >> very wet behind the ears. cronkite was a five scentless guide for the kansas city upu
desk. doyle had only a little more experience than that. rooney had never written a real news article in his life before he joined stars and stripes in the fall of 1942. the church was basically a city desk reporter for the "new york herald" tribune that it never distinguished himself. besides, the only one with real credentials at the beginning of the war was aj liebling had received in a failed newspaperman. he found his niche at "the new yorker" writing essays. all five guys found themselves in really defined journalism for america during the war. >> is a bit older, more established, what they've been in the theater? >> yes. for the most part, the guys who were assigned to the european theater were young but cronkite entered into rest, but there were experienced reporters as
well. i think what they experienced, the way they were able to capture it, the way they were really part of the greatest moral crusade in history to find their lives and their careers. >> you think about walter cronkite. don't include recently wrote a book and talked about reporters sunday at nine during the evening broadcast. he cronkite and bernie and the rest coveted world were to shoot their literature ballistic careers? >> it sure did. the recent cronkite was able to go to vietnam with some depth and credibility was that he had experienced world war ii and later korea from the frontline. so in january 196 ta, what concrete went to vietnam but concluded the war was not winnable, that the were objectives had gotten so murky that it is hard to remember exactly when men were fighting and dying in vietnam.
i think it gave him the residents of the country and he knew he had a bully pulpit and used it sparingly in his career. one of the the times used of his vietnam. >> did you get a chance to speak to any of the journalists family for andy rooney? >> assured it. mr. verney passed away a year ago thanksgiving time of last year. he could not have been more generous at this time. sat down and a width to long interviews. his sons or daughters were just terrific. cronkite's children were also great and all the various relatives said the other five were all just terrific. >> we've been talking with tim i, author of assignment to. >> thank you. appreciate it. >> over the last few weeks booktv has aired several best of 2012 books to these lists.
we sat down with bob mr. shiner to discuss the world. visit booktv.org and search 2012 year books. >> if i cannot make a sum it up, they to come back with these gentlemen or they can make a lot of what's going on in this country. nothing but a bunch of quake and i wish i was kidding this case coming up to a flight to tax the united states of america about what's going on. >> his family go all the way back to the daily. he settled in rhode island, worked his way up, first doing so-called low-level kinds of crime, but eventually became the crime force of new england with his headquarters on federal hill and providence, rhode island. sometimes people think mod guys
attendees and those kind of guys. they have people who are incredibly intelligent. they post scans, for example on wall street. but of course they have the traditional kind of organized crime, which were shaking down people, extortion. of course they viewed it as protecting your business from other guys who might try to shake you down, murder for hire, et cetera, so the rapport talk grew and grew supertype airwave doing things.