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tv   After Words  CSPAN  November 3, 2013 11:00am-11:41am EST

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i think the signal that's being sent out from this country is basically we are modeling american economy in europe, and it's a failed model. it doesn't work. there's no way you can have a deficits we have and the debt we are incurring without sending out a signal to the world that this country is not going to be what it was in the past. ..
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we've got $493 billion out of the pentagon defense budget and were about to cut half a trillion, which brings it close to $950 billion. out of the 10 year budget. the signal that sends to the world is that the united dates is not going to be in a position to contribute to a more peaceful and stable world in the decade ahead. the mac thanks, afterwards, substance abuse and mental health administration. this week in her book, drink, the intimate relationship between women and alcohol. the former editor at large of canada's maclean's magazine examines what she calls the closing gender gap in the world of risky drinking.
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she argues heavy drinking is contributing to several health conditions and cancers and more women in the early draft for more than 20,000 a year in the u.s. alone. the program is about an hour. just goes so nice to be here. >> host: i'm excited to have this visit with you about the new book called "drink," very intriguing and provocative and like i said, right when i was working in treatment about the relationship about alcohol. one of the questions i wanted to ask you is why now? why is this seen as the crisis in important for you to get the message out? >> guest: we are seeing a mobile problem, a closing of the gender gap returning men and women. traditionally we think men drink more than women do. but let's been happy recently as nine have been declining.
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women are not at all. and this is global. the more developed the country, the richer the country comes to mind the gap between men and women conception. this is a britain, for instance, where we see young girls in their 20s who are dying of end-stage liver he which is classically seen as an old and is used. so this is a health epidemic crisis, something we need to pay attention to to and open up a dialogue because it's her favorite drug. most of us can do. >> host: can you talk may be a bit about the driving force for you and why do you drink. >> guest: the driving force for me is decades old. i grew up with it alcohol addicted mother, like a lot of women in the 60s and 70s, dependent on others will help
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her. she was a stay-at-home mom, really with a post or perl for that era. i have always been interested in why she drank the way she drink. the one thing i said to myself that i never will. back to my 60s, i sell it to stupidly bad behavior with alcohol. i had a bad batch of my own life and i would say my poster girl for this era. i'm well-educated, highly professional woman, mother and found myself drinking not two glasses of wine, not three glasses of wine, but foreign fighters xma. i slipped into some bad behavior. caught myself quickly and went to rehab. post goes to when not, what was that like for you then, that realization? if you can maybe talk about that. >> guest: it was probably the worst thing i've ever gone through. i was full of shame. i was deeply humiliated by my
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behavior. i didn't miss work. i didn't do any of the about death. i did lack out. each night before i went to sleep. and it was something that i set out a handle on it. i had a favorite cousin who was killed by drunk driver. and i thought of us so much to alcohol my childhood. now my cousin died, i'll just quit. and i couldn't. i knew i was addicted and found myself going for help. it was confounding. and also, my behavior didn't look like my mother's. so i thought it can't possibly be an alcoholic. >> host: there is an adage that i learned as a kid. it's kind of like mirror mirror on the wall, i am my mother after all. >> guest: ray, ray. >> host: do you think that what you've experienced is pretty common with other women quakes
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>> guest: i know that behavior -- the extreme behavior that i was engulfed in it at the far end of the spectrum and i became good. a lot of women, the larger group of women are not addicted. 2.5%, how many are actually alcoholics. there's a lot of women involved in really with a behavior. binge drinking. the center for disease control came out in january and warned about the fact this is an epidemic or portion. that's the thing we don't focus on. we focus on the alcoholics are the drunk driver. we don't look at the common person's behavior. for women, it's only nine drinks a week in terms of low restricting guidelines. that's not a lot and never more than one or two occasions. taking nights off from drinking and a lot of people would find that something that couldn't
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manage. >> host: what about young girls. do they fall in the same range as that? i know we look at the age different is in young women and say women our age. you know, finding the difficulty. are there differences amongst the age of women in general? guest of the young generation of women has been targeted by the alcohol industry. in the mid-1990s, we saw the invention of both sleep.cut in fees prepackaged drinks that are basically starter drinks, cocktails with training wheels on a transitional drinks that people into drinking. move them away from you because that women usually don't like the taste of. what happens is they mature into vodka drinkers. so on campuses, you've got young men and young women playing drinking games, but the young guys with and it might be a
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woman two thirds the body satisfying.cut or shot. very risky behavior and we all know alcohol is the number one date rape drug. we see different behavior. this generation doesn't drink and drive. but the pre-drink before they go to a bar because it's expensive. they have alcohol in their dorms. they drink ahead of the event, which means once they get to the event, they are often already inebriated. very risky behavior. >> host: that also put them at risk for what other types of behaviors? >> guest: many other types of behaviors. b.c. high profile accident file, certainly behaviors that wasn't wanted. absolutely brought back to my mac and and so on so forth. but what is fascinating right now with young women used to
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slow down. after university college, they slow down. young men didn't always, the young man did. they're not doing that now. >> host: why you think that is? test the women get a very complex message. we are in the middle of a sociological revolution. yet women are told they have to have a great career. they have to be great mothers. they have to be thin. they have to be good looking. they have to manage a house well. there is a sense of entitlement. i can do everything a young man does. that includes having a glass of wine or two after work, drinking wine down. and women tend to medicate depression and anxiety and loneliness. i think there's a lot of anxiety in this generation in terms of how do i manage it all? so when we look at who is drinking the most, we need the professional woman, be educated woman. i don't think this is the gloria
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steinem had in mind when she met the nickel. >> host: at allen says zero you expect patients that not only society put on women, but what we take on ourselves as well, too, plays a role. >> guest: ray. i beg the question about whether it bonhomme age. i drank just a week, to relax at a party. i used alcohol. i think if you are relaxing as rewarding yourself to find. but if you're numbing yourself, not a great idea. >> host: as i was reading through "drink," one of the things that came to mind for me please were there times when you find yourself hesitating to the already writing and putting words on paper about your
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experience? >> guest: yes, this is a huge decision. this book was in some ways a series i didn't canada is a 16 part series on women and alcohol. at that time, my editor said to me, how do you feel about telling your story? she knew about the history with alcohol abuse. is that i'm beginning to think maybe i should call it. she said you have to work at it? she said yes, then you can't. this statement is too great. i passed for two years before i decided to write this drinking -- this book. it was a huge decision. once i made the decision. once i put pen to paper, it cannot be very quickly. but i was worried about how it would be seen. e-mail, there's the saying that
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where public life last, private lives in secret lives. it was a relief to tell the secret. >> host: as they say, secrets keep you think. guess those secrets to keep you sick. i found it incredibly cathartic in a terrific relief. >> host: hadi see the path of women's drinking patterns different from men? >> guest: there's a lot of research that went in and gets into trouble with alcohol come he tends to go to the bar, hangs out with this friend that makes new friends. maybe not great friends. and that's the pattern. a woman is to drink alone to isolate, to non-complicated feelings around depression as i did and anxiety. that is a female model. so when a woman goes to treatment, it important we now know to have a hard look at the things that were triggers for her come the emotions that were
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triggered. it can be hard when you get sober as i did and find the things he would not mean are trying to numb depression all of a sudden iran medicated. so it's important when you are dealing with sobriety that you recognize you're going to have a whole host of motions that you have to address. unmedicated or medicated in a different way. this is progress because they used to believe when you went to treatment come you had have to be sober for two years before you dealt with the underlying causes. for women in treatment, it difficult because getting to treatment is the issue. especially if you have young children, babies. we see some fabulous entities across north america that appreciate what do mothers have to deal with when they're trying to get sober. but they are few and far between. too often it's not who you know,
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whether you have enough money, where you live, whether you look at the right treatment. >> host: why do you think that is? >> guest: i think it's obvious. i think our value as a society around alcohol are very fuzzy. i don't think we decided what we want to do. we all think about sophisticated i know my wine. if an adult, i should know how to handle their liquor. if i'm drinking a little too much, maybe i'm just trying to act like the french or the spanish were the italian. it isn't me that has a problem. it's that rare drinking driver. we don't look at ourselves because we don't want to. this is something we used to relax. we love alcohol as a culture. it's cheap in our culture. very, very cheap. sometimes in a corner store or gas station is cheaper than elk in orange juice. so i think we haven't really done well on mental health.
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we've done well on understanding depression. we haven't done well at all on understanding addiction. >> host: okay. another question as i was reading yearbook is kind of your thoughts as support groups versus women of sobriety is whether or not you think there are some differences between support groups that are geared mainly towards men is supposed to those geared towards women. >> guest: great question. women for sobriety is a group that developed some time ago. i really admire it. it really focuses for the reaction in part against the word powerlessness, which is an aa term and women were having trouble some of the language of the big book of aa. the problem with women for
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sobriety is that it is very hard if you live in a small town or even where i live, in a big city, to find women for sobriety groups. you can start your own, but it's difficult. i think it's interesting that the face of aa has changed. it is become much more female and much younger. and the younger generation, there's huge pride in being sober. there's a lot of shame in my generation stigma. at the younger generation is pretty proud a rocking sobriety. >> host: it's interesting you say that. do you think that the overall public views it or sees that same concept as young individuals of aa likes >> guest: no, i think it totally hit. the anonymity piece has made sure its been kept hidden. i am a big fan of something called aces and voices of recovery based in washington. very, very strong organization.
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and i am part of a movement in canada, just establishing out faces and voices of recovery canada. i tell people that i am five years without line, five years without a drink. i lead a terrific life. i don't need to break by anonymity and tell you how i keep sober, but they need to tell you this is be sober and this is what it looks like. i'm in recovery. >> host: are you familiar with the concept of recovery in systems of care? >> guest: i am not. >> host: that the philosophy we ready much coin by william white and taking a look at how to build the community, community of recovery. i'm just kind of wondering, you know, in your book, reading about aa and the differences for
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women. i remember while working in a treatment facility that a lot of time they may go initially, but then they would fall out the kinds of the relationship piece. i know women generally have to deal with that generally, but have to deal with as they move into recovery. i was just wondering whether or not you were familiar with the recovery system of care concepts as well. >> you know, that just came across my radar this week. i don't know if you've seen the film, the anonymous people. fabulous film. that was the trigger for me to understand who he was. >> host: good. that is good. i wonder if you could talk a little bit about what you see as it relates to are there differences in isolation for
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women. we know there are differences in isolation or women when they are actively drinking. what about when they get into recovery? are there similarities with the whole issue of isolation for women as they move into recovery? >> guest: and recovery, you have to be really careful of isolation. you have to be really careful about health care. for women, and that is why i'm such a fan of women for sobriety is there is a focus on the self-care piece. there is a focus on respecting yourself and looking after yourself. i can't speak for being a man in recovery, but i know when i am involved with my friends who are also sober, this is unseemly focus on a lot. make sure you don't get too lonely, too angry or tired is very important. what i found in new sobriety is
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everything. it wasn't the fact i've never been three christmas or new year's separate the sober. but absolutely everything in terms of my human relations should. so i look much more consciously and much more happily now. >> host: i know that one of the things you refer to is drinking by women is a cultural thing. and i wondered if maybe you could make a little bit about what you need at that. >> guest: the phenomenon of women drinking is very much a piece of entitlement. our sense of entitlement. >> host: i've never heard it like that before. >> guest: we can because men can, so we can. certainly the younger generation has that feeling. but going toe to toe with men
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it's actually a dangerous thing. 15% of breast cancer cases are related to alcohol. democratically, we are equal. that metabolically and hormonally we are. when it comes to alcohol. what i really find his alcohol in the tobacco? no. but if the alcohol industry behaving like the industry used to? yet. focused on women we have a drinking culture with winds like mummy and girls night out lying and skinny girl vodka and happy whine believe it or not. and this is true focus, totally feminize drinking culture. it all started with carrie bradshaw when she was drinking cosmopolitan on in the itty. did she have to equate death, she did. but we have a female drinking
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culture now and i think i'm incumbent upon us making sure they tell women are market savvy. they hinders in the alcohol crutch has become a person. it's tweeting. it's on facebook. it's trying to get you as part of the community whatever the alcohol is. you're the target. that is the tobacco industry. >> host: when i read that in your book, i thought touché because after i thought about it, there is a strong analogy between the two. which along with that, having been attended a tobacco conference is one of the sessions ever than are attending had to do with the marketing strategies and how they really earmarked 10 focus on groups of
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people. based off of what yours dimasi 15 yes women as to the alcohol industry really targeting women. but not only targeting women, but do you see them targeting more of a specific racial at the group as well, to? >> guest: you do see a huge vulnerability if you look at the data coming out of colleges to assert that the groups are actually drinking at a higher rate than others. so when you look at the upswing in young women, you see that women from different races having more trouble. if the complex dory. it is the number one predictor of whether you get into trouble is childhood abuse. that is the number one predictor. more than anything else. it is very much related to trauma.
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and therefore, trauma related rehab and treatment is really important. we've seen a wonderful upswing in the understanding that trauma is really to alcohol abuse. this is our easiest and most accessible drug in people do medicate with it and women do all the time. >> host: one point in time, used to be the mind that for the treatment providers is to not even address that. but now that has shifted, which i'm glad to the address that. but what is the risk of women to become re-traumatized if their treatment further talking about the trauma that they have asked. >> guest: it's really an important question. you have to be very, very savvy as a treatment provider to make sure you don't re-traumatized person.
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i., for instance, went to rehab it was diagnosed with ptsd, posttraumatic stress disorder. am i hot to really take my time with the trauma that i was dealing with. i had to take my time and know that this was a multiyear issue that i had to address. i couldn't do it overnight. you don't want to re-traumatized the person. but speaking every time conversation. one of the problems is young women will have a trauma in their life, drink too much, find themselves in a compromising position and the re-traumatized that way. women have to keep themselves safe. there's a real connection with abuse, with violence, and even if it did not partner violence. it puts one in a really vulnerable place to have too much to drink. so there's many reasons to be
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cautious of what you're putting down your call it. >> host: may be moving on, can you speak to, and you alluded to it a little bit e4, eastern in the faces and voices of recovery canada, about the role of stigma and addressing it and why that is so important and if you think that there are different is, gender difference is in how the role of stigma is addressed. >> guest: yes. i think you can be a male in our culture and have too much to drink and be seen as a good old guy. you are just a terrific guy. a woman, you don't lose the masculinity. a woman drinks too much and she is seen as poppy, not as feminine. we are much harder on women who drink too much.
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and so i think faces and voices of recovery canada and in the state are very much are following the parent organization in the united states. we've known for more than 20 years that dixon is a complex disease like diabetes. you have to contribute to have yourself. but we see it as a moral failing. we see definitely a mother who drinks as a way down totem pole in terms of what you could admire. then we get into the complex issue of women drinking. as i do of five years we tend to have to stand up in a comment.
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a person likes charlie sheen and robert downey junior when whitney houston. when i get clean and sober we don't focus very much. were not a centrist. lindsay lohan. we are just fascinated by the misbehavior. as i say, it's very much like the issue of mental health. we need to profoundly understand with going wrong. we live in oncogenic society. we need to pay more attention to this death. >> host: do you think it is that society turns off of chaos and chaos another individualize? >> guest: sure. there's an interest in watching somebody else self-destruct. there is no doubt about it. and that is compelling. but it's tragic and we have to
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have a lot more compassion. i don't know that we are a compassionate society in terms of appreciating. we can appreciate a person with depression or suffers from diabetes. or we are not very sympathetic or empathetic when someone has an addiction issue. >> host: from your perspective, what would be a comprehensive health response to this issue? >> guest: well, there is no doubt in my mind that pricing is a huge issue. if you look at the hard data on the cost of alcohol, it has just become cheaper and cheaper and cheaper in recent years. and as i was saying earlier, often in a cast nation, i would argue why is it even in the gas station, but often in the gas
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station it is cheaper than the milk or the orange juice. that's just wrong. there is very clear data that says that if you add a 10% increase to that cost, that you see in 9% drop in terms of hospital admissions for emergencies, for instance come around all kohala. the cost is just too accessible. overly accessible. it's overly cheap. and we are not even the dots of a lot of trouble. what we are doing, for, in canada in certain regions as we are starting to produce report cards. we know that alcohol produces a lot of tax revenue for the government. but what we are doing is connecting the dots of those emergent derailment issue, but policing related to alcohol so we can understand it is costly, hugely costly. i think we should take a very hard look at marketing. i don't think that there should
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be a marketing allowed that there is, especially with social media, which is targeting youth. i think that is definitely wrong and i think we should see the ads targeted to teenage drinkers. the premade drink should not be categorized as they are in the united states has malt beverages so that they can be soleplate and sold cheaply. it's wrong. >> host: what are the things you would think needs to be included in that public health strategies i guess, looking up at other types of strategies with e. >> guest: we need to take a hard look at treatment. we need to take a hard look at investment and treatments so it's not just for the rich and famous. but for instance come on give you an example. i was the eddie ford in the last six months and they are lamenting the fact that a lot of
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the programs that were aimed at children, children of addict pairings have gone the way of the dodo bird when we've seen how can children and the second generational problem is something that should be very high on the totem pole of needs and importance. so we are not really handy, if we don't unders and what they need is, we certain i don't understand that it's not one of those things you come in and get six more in and then you walk away in your fine. if you have breast cancer art cancer you are told which are aftercare is going to be. you go in for a 30 day program. i'd been there. you're essentially seen as fine when you leave. follow-up is key. taking care of yourself is key. so i don't think we have a full understanding of what needs to be done when this product is so
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cheap, so accessible, taxed so badly in the united states, taxed terribly. and privatize. we have a real problem. >> host: so what is the really getting to a place where there's parity between this particular disease as well as other diseases. >> guest: absolutely. >> host: exactly. i think you touched on this before, but if there's anything else you want to talk about the similarities with tobacco policy and what similar strategies could be nearer related to risky drinking behavior? >> guest: one of the things that has come out recently is an appreciation in the past five years that some of the 50 diseases and cancers that are related to alcohol. we have not had a public
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dialogue about that. we don't appreciate at all that there are some downsides to drinking. we are typically thought that drinking and driving and liver cirrhosis. and we don't appreciate that also throw cancer, though cancer, we don't appreciate the big one. people die typically 20 years younger than they do with smoking. that's a huge one. and women die faster than non-from drinking. so were not helping the public health conversation would be jumpstarted one on tobacco years ago. that's really -- we know the problem with trans-fats. we know the problems with tanning beds. and it doesn't make any sense. we know more about gluten than we know about alcohol. >> host: or want to know. >> guest: or want to know. so i think that is the key issue. i think just like with tobacco,
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keep it simple. if you keep it to accessibility in price, you will turn around many of the problems that are major issues. the sea washing and safer than some privatizing or putting alcohol in a huge complexity of what's unfolding in that state. you see what's interesting in the united states is many petri dish experiments in terms of coming in now, what policy changes come about and how that affects people. so no, there is no doubt. you have britain should does. britain should decided not to.
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south africa is the command of marketing dan, fabulous because there's such it huge problem. so people are not as a whole other subject. so, there are many policies in this country and some of the best research in the world. but between what we know in what we don't do this environments. >> host: would you say it is more so cheer than a dozen in other countries? >> guest: absolutely. alcohol is usually cheap in this country. in canada we have monopolies, liquor monopolies. a fairly firm hand on pricing. but here, all bets are off. i'll close thereof. i come to a policy conference here in north america where some
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of the best brains working on the issues. and yet, the public's appetite for understanding this is small. >> host: i hear you saying there is a great deal of environmentalists chatterji that could utilize, maybe not necessarily capitalized on. >> guest: exactly. >> host: okay, okay. assertive messages can be incorporated across the last and for females that could reach the impact of risky drinking quite >> guest: well, i think in canada we had drinking guidelines, not in 2011. and with it, my drinks per week there was a lot of pushback of the women i know. save nine drinks a week, are you kidding me? what if i have four or five on a saturday night in four or five on friday night? i am already over my limit.
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we just have to start to know what is safe. you see, for instance, in a big study out of harvard recently, a huge problem with how much young women are busy street is not the college campus level is how much john vander drink came. that old frat boy stereotype is out the window. john belushi if he was alive today would be female. >> host: okay. okay. i noticed that i was reading your online and one of the things i wanted to ask you about. the national roundtable on gross, women and alcohol. can you maybe talk about that after, the purpose of it and kind of what is your vision for your? >> guest: our vision is to open a dialogue about the policy
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leaders you and i were just talking about, what does marketing the click click how do you get that into the schools? how do you reach the 16-year-old girls that are just facing a lot of social media and educate them that they have been targeted. how do you do that? how do you look at accessibility? we are trying to build awareness. we are trying to build policy, understanding and canada on the understanding that girls and women are far more vulnerable towards alcohol abuse than men are. so that initiative -- i like to telly littles torry. it's a short one. a lot of the frogs are growing words. the fertility experts, or do you say maybe there's something in the water? the national roundtable
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basically name there something in the water. our culture has got it wrong. let's open up a dialog to get it right. so that in the face of the voices of recovery, i'm pretty busy. guess host a wonderful, wonderful. we've got a few minutes left. i wonder if there's anything else you would like to save about this issue, about your book, i love the title, "drink: the intimate relationship between women and alcohol" because that's what it is. it is a relationship, whether we like it or not. >> guest: yes, i guess what i would like to say is i don't mean to be a killjoy. i certainly enjoyed my fair share of alcohol in my life. but one of the things that really alarms me, other than this data about young women, really alarmed me was the fact that the more professional, more educated you were, the more likely you are going to get into trouble with alcohol. in


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