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of the israeli people. i've never have blinders on flex some of my friends have, you know, of the kind of sanctions of the palestinians. but just from a realistic point of view, i don't understand for the last 20 years, and it's been harder and harder for me to defend sometimes the actions of israel to my liberal jewish or non-jewish friends, i don't understand oslo with a few exceptions. .. ..
>> so the question is whether there are pressure all? >> and just everything was drinking. >> what's the question? why do we not reach out more? okay, okay. let me answer. it's a very simple answer. of course you can understand they want us to reach out more. we have to reach out in a sensible realistic way. one of the problems is the peace thinking of the peace concept will not renew in 20 years of reality refuted them time after time. this is why we need fresh thinking. it will not try to sell today is a new car or a 25-year-old
chevy. so it's time to think fresh. and to describe it in a sentence. when israelis open their hearts and say it's a good pc to 93 the result was the wave of terror and exploding in jerusalem. when israelis took it to step forward in the camp david peace agreement 2000, the result was the worst suicide army terror offenses ever. when israelis open their heart the third time and withdrew from the gaza strip, the result was rockets coming and making life in southern israel impossible. after three such experiences, data centers and a bobo middle of the road real estate, well-meaning israelis are astray. their fears are somewhat justified. yet, i say let's not surrender to fear, but let they can bring
out a new, creative idea of how we move forward, learn from lessons of the past, but do not under estimate or do not ignore the fact that there are legitimate fears on the other side of israel. [applause] averages at one of the spectrum which is also the creation of the wall has had the effect of removing any sense of urgency to make a deal. what they hate sense of security inside israel, the day of reckoning of the palestinian question can be put off for seemingly forever. >> that's part of it. but to this day, we did not acknowledge these three traumas are very deep and near paralyzing israeli public opinion to ride away, the worst part of the solution.
but that's another discussion. >> ari, i hope you don't mind if i ask a question. pinging is capon guy. i wanted to ask if you could recall and summarizes a bit of a curiouser funny story of what lawrence to do to actually, to conscript or sign up you to give uniform. i remember frantically, but maybe you could retell the story because it's pretty funny. >> when world war i started in august 1914, lawrence -- he's been a great deal of time over the four or five years at the archaeological site in northern area. it is back in london. there is such a precious people to enlist at the british government actually raised its height in lawrence was only five-foot four. i believe they raise the height to five for six.
so he couldn't enlist in the happiness he got a job working for the mapping department of the british military headquarters in london. he was in the job for about six weeks in a british general who was about to go off to the western front into belgium wanted to look at the up to date battlefield maps of the sector he was going to be going to. walking in this room, he was so did that he was going to be briefed by this five-foot four civilian and the thunder i want to be briefed by an officer. there is no officers left. so lawrence was hustled off to the army navy store to get a second lieutenant's uniform and it made him a second lieutenant. that's how lawrence became a british officer. [laughter] be like you're going to be the last question.
the rumor is that he was four for nine and maybe the only person ever -- >> that's right. it was never heard that actually happened. it was two weeks away from stationing finishing. he rushed back to london to start putting -- trying to put his influence into the postwar division. on the morning of october 30, he had a sudden to buckingham palace. he thought he was going there to please the king of these deliberations. he was put into a ballroom and the king and queen and queen mary walked in and there was a little raised platform. lawrence realized he was about
to be knighted. the two things unusual about this is over the previous four years of the war, there have been so many investiture is in the king was always giving out medals and investiture stories and at this point. so private investiture lake lawrence was almost unheard of. also queen mary hardly ever went to the ceremonies, but she heard about lawrence's ex-person arabia so she made an exception to come. should be standing with this puts all the medals in the king turns to lorentzen says i have some guess for you. he goes to put the first medal on lawrence and lawrence refuses to be knighted. the british monarchy is all about protocol. the protocol for absolutely everything. but there is no protocol for fusing a knife in the king's face. it never happened before. apparently the tone of the king stood there awkwardly for a minute and put the metal back down on lord chamberlain's
pillow. lawrence turned and walked out. [laughter] why did he do it? i think he did it because he knew to be sure it was coming. but what really motivated lawrence was he really missed his life over and over again to try to uphold the promises the british government had made and they think by the end of the war he was very clear that they were going to be sold out in the betrayal of the british and the french was a foregone conclusion. >> my question is for ari. this may sound like a simple question in a few days. i'm not so sure if it is. you mentioned in israel that israel should be doing to reach out to the diaspora jewish in america and so forth. my question is the inverse.
what should americans, jewish in america who left israel, go buy my love is real, but still of israel. what should we be doing to further the dialogue for the situation as you see it? what is what is our role in this? what should we be doing to help? >> i have running usual answer for journalists. pretty much you are doing what you should. i think msn tend, americans are doing what it should and supporting israel and maintaining itself. where i am actually worried, any code, i am more worried about your communities. and therefore, if i had a vision, is a vision i wanted to come on israel to intervene in israel. there is some people who don't like it. forever each one in the way
legs. if you like hospitals, politics, ncs, whatever part of israel you can relate to, work with it. whatever way you decide. but i think it is our role early to start out. i'll give you an example. i'm really troubled by the lack of affordable jewish education in this country. i think this is the future that we all want for the american community. i don't expect israel, but if for instance we will have some sort of jewish peace corps but is actually going around in sending our young nurse to help with jewish summer camps in all kinds, i want you. in a series of internal jewish isolations.
i don't want your community to turn its back on israel. and i don't want israel to turn its back on you. i want you to do your thing. whatever part of israel you can write to. but i want israel to work with you. i want much. the probably have to do is much deeper. i see it is my role. my hope in this book is to launch a new conversation about israel here. but when i go back, it is my duty to try and launch it via the ds biretta decision within israel. this is the last question. i would end with the following, that described it so much belief, which is the amazing energy and vitality of society. but our role, our mission is to take vitality and move it to the political sphere so we'll have a much more effective government, much more effective policy.
it's not enough that there is a great society increased to companies they are. we have to take that vitality, transform our midstate and reach out to you people so they can have a meaningful dialogue because we really need it and it can actually be a real, real celebration. [applause] >> scott andersen, ari shavit commentator very much. >> we do have books available out by democrats about. they will be available to send them for you. sounds a ♪ [inaudible conversations]
>> and that's a wrap up our coverage here on day one of the miami book fair international, i want to let you know about tomorrow. we will be live all day again tomorrow beginning at 10:30 a.m. eastern time. some of the others still your friend include mark halprin and george packer who won the book or this week. bill ayers, representative debbie wasserman schultz, chris mathews are some of the authors you can find the entire schedule at the tv guide oracle. we look forward to seeing you tomorrow. >> next, elizabeth varon recalls robert e. lee's surrender to the ulysses s. grant led union forces said the mclean house on october 9th 101865. this is about 45 minutes. [applause]
>> thank you so much for that very, very kind introduction. it's a pleasure to be here. property surrendered u.s. grant in 1865 which is for most americans a familiar tableau. the two men met your mama central virginia at appomattox courthouse. lee wore a fine dress uniform and vow gentility of the southeasterly. create test crack early and represented the hardscrabble farmers and wage earners had molded in to so formidable a fighting machine. after awkwardly exchanging pleasantries about service in the mexican war, the two men agree to the surrender terms and ended the civil war. in essence, grants term salve for the army of north virginia on there aren't. the promise that they would never again take up arms against the united states. great magnanimity in this relates to the preservation of the labor united the north and south that prepared the way for america's emergence as a world
power. this is an edifying story, a comforting one die-cast healing it transcends politics. today i'll tell you an altogether different mathematic story and suggested what happened here on april 9th 1865 is even more significant and fascinating than we've realized. the surrender was inherently political moment i would set the terms of an unfolding debate about the meetings that the war. leeann grant, consummate leaders both do this in each man move to stake out a position. for the come of surrender was the negotiation of which he secured honorable terms for his blameless man in the peace is contingent on the north's good behavior. the union victory in the sizes one overrated. entrance fee the surrender was sent negotiation. he could be immersed while precisely because he went badly utterly powerless and discredit to his cause. grants terms were designed to affect confederates submission and atonement. for a grant from the union
victory was spread over rob and peace is contingent on the south's good behavior. competing granted they did not crack the surrender terms in isolation it for the appomattox drama unfolded, countrymen and women would crowd the scene and invest with aspirations and dreams and the students included the dream of freedom itself. in the eyes of african-american soldiers and former slaves, more than the union had been vindicated that april day. the surrender was for them. a freedom day, the moment the promise of emancipation was finally fulfilled. i'll propose three distinct understandings is a moment of rest duration. this is the confederate interpretation of vindication liberation took shape within the contending armies on april 9, 1865. i'll suggested the debates over the terms reveal not only the depth of the bitterness between the earth and the vanquished, but deep divisions within each society north and south.
so we'll begin with the confederate interpretation. on april 81865 to retrieve bad to grant in response to green suggestion that the confederate cause is hopeless in that time had come to capitulate. lee wrote, to be frank i do not think the emergency has arisen for the surrendered his army but as the restoration of peace should be the sole object of a desire to know whether proposals would lead to the end. i cannot meet you with a view to the surrender of northern virginia. as far as the restoration of peace, i should be pleased to meet you. using the word restoration price, lee began to elaborate position of an honorable peace. what did he mean by restoration? is a favorite theme of the northern peace democrats who deplored the lincoln administration's conduct of the work, war, particularly i think the man patient and sought to return the union to the way it was the third 1864 campaign
slogan. we had hoped in vain the confederate battlefield victories with all the chorus of northern dissent and bring the north to the negotiating table. please on understanding the distinct from that of the northern democrat and it was rooted in his family culture and that of his native virginia. like many other virginians of his generation, elite bloodlines , leave the state for days of the earlier public. neither states on the stick it for granted to be my leader in felt a proprietary pride in the union. for lee, an honorable peace would restore for the south of prosperity influence of his words. he associated with the case of an imagined past before the nation had drifted away from the principles of the virginia founders. from april 1865 on, restoration would be these political keyword and we see a crop up again and again and again and his postwar correspondent. for example, six months after the surrender, he wrote to matthew fontaine maury, as long
as virtue is dominant, so long as the happiness of the people secure. and ever merciful guys give us from destruction and restores to the bright hopes and prospects of the past. this is a fundamentally backward looking view of the peace. these hopes were restoration or premise not only a nostalgic, but the case this time he was lameness. he elaborated the case in april 10 in his farewell address under the sky by charles marshall. it began after four years of arduous service marked by unsurpassed courage and fortitude the army of northern virginia has been compelled to go to overwhelming recent resources, unquote. confederate church amid steadfast in the continued in contrast satisfaction even in this bitter hour from the consciousness of duty faithfully performed. please address took on an iconic status. it had profound emotional resonance to his starting unexhausted church. the yankee army seemed endless and income are seen. billy's farewell address had layers of meaning and deep
tangled roots. for white southerners, the reference to overwhelming numbers and resource this is a sort of code in the context of proslavery ideology of the creed members conjured up a northern army of mercenaries, seducer coerced into service and having no real taken the fight. resources conjured up images of northern factories and cities in which it exploited underclass is turned material support at the behest of rapacious capitalists. succession is sensing the burgeoning love the population of the north doesn't type of northern society, and social instability and obsession at the bottom line. the addresses reference to the courage and fortitude of the confederate troops as part of parcel of the same in dayton and of the north. defenders of the southern way of life had made a staple of the claim that southern men accustomed to mastery over always her readers are nursed at the northern. lee was well aware of this ideological freight. in a planet union troops had not
been equal to the confederate once the essential attributes of and had, his farewell address made a political statement. by denying legitimacy of the north military vic drake, confederates could tonight and with the right to impose its political will on the defeated south. here at appomattox, we moved on a second front to cast the surrender terms in the best possible light, hoping their paroles could confer a measure of immunity from reprisals at the hands of the federal, lee requested of grant at their april 10 made in on horseback that each individual confederate be issued a printed certificate signed by a union officer is proof that the soldier came under the settlement of april 9. grant readily assented to this request in keeping with the language of the surrender terms match that of the soldier observed the force for he resided, he would not be disturbed. he then imagines the certificates would remind confederates of the obligations attendant upon their status as paroled prisoners of war.
but the confederates emphasize the will not be disturbed cause in their eyes from the paroles represented the promise that honorable men would not be treated dishonorably. in the confederate interpretation from the surrender terms impose conditions on the north. april 20191865 interview with the "new york herald," they want arbitrary urban dig ever read full apologies were adopted by the republican administration from the southerners would the terms reached that would renew the fight. 10 months later testifying before congressional committee, investigating ways of anti-black violence, they defended the policies of andy johnson from which i'd write ex-confederates back to power and again cautioned the north must be restrained and conservative in its approach to reunion or that was the best way for northerners to retain the good opinion of the south. the main point here is this. lee has a reputation in the modern day for having counseled resignation and deceit.
but for confederates of the posts were. camellia's 90s humblest admission. instead he was the symbol of an out pride and measured defiance. confederate civilians imagine the very surrender seem as an in the to korea. a revealing the fanciful report on the conference at the mclean house circulated through confederate newspapers immediately to 65 in which lee offers gripped his sword, but greed refuses to take it. according to the newspaper account cummock returned to his generally, keep that sort. you have not been wiped, but overpowered and i cannot receive it as a token of surrender from so brave a man, a quote. of course, grant never said such things but it assigns the overwrite interpretation. confederates on the holmes wrote of the surrender seem that union officers cheered poorly as they left the mclean house and the
rank-and-file yankee dared not utter a single insulting word to the defeated rebels. why were the yankees the victors? aggressively submissive, they fear the line even ashamed. to your door, confederates not only cannot get him to the overwhelming recent resources interpretation of their defeat, but the sentiments of the address, they invoke the appomattox terms and particularly the will not be disturbed cause is issued against social change and a weapon of them in battle over black civil rights. republican efforts to get the re-people measure of equality and opportunity and protection were met by confederate protest is such a radical agenda was a betrayal of the appomattox term. the prospect of black citizenship is one virginia newspaper put it, the less disturbed side. in short, confederates believed that lee had drawn the line in the sand at appomattox. north carolina poet put it most
distinctly. urgent southerners to model good behavior she wrote in the summer of 1866 that lee had quote not stoop to scrimmaged crowd had one breath to surrender to create. confederates would observe the parole terms, but she insisted an honorable enemy should not desire. it is idle to attempt to force the confederates juice day they were wrong. from the start, this view, this view of things as are some of out of are some of the object of faith in her circle in the vast majority of union soldiers and civilians. it is precisely the admission of wrongdoing in a change of heart that grants offered his defeated those. please rhetoric of restoration help no charm to the new general. grant expressing his support for lincoln in 1864 election has explicitly rejected the equation at peace with restoration of a turning back the clock. he associated such language with
defeatism that the democrats in a specter is great but it is a restoration to the south of slaves 30 free. grant also rejected the notion he had been anything negotiated with lee at appomattox. he had all the cars on april 9, 1865. green felt demeaning to to be unmistakable. hero, never claim to the protein of these prisoners any political rights whatsoever. i thought that was the matter with congress over which i have no control. the general chief commanding army i had to read to stipulate to surrender in terms which the confederate bias. these terms rested on military calculations. great post on april 9, 1865 that should be surrender. other rebel armies would surrender and grandpa to be the thus avoid bushwhacking a continuation of the war. in the interpretation, grant's terms did not set the men free pic technically paroled bubbles were prisoners of war whose freedom is entirely contingent
on their good behavior. the surrender was her creative vindication on many levels. restoration is least keyword of vindication. he was keenly aware of the fact that over the course of the word many northerners in the union army and government press had attributed to the formidable the superhuman qualities as graham put it in his memoirs. written while long the rebel chief was mortal and the surrender vindicated. that knowledge. moreover, grant had long stood by the charge leveled by the antiwar copperhead preston north victory was a merciless butchery. greenfeld undisguised contempt for the stay-at-home traders and antiwar copperhead. now if defeat in france showed lenience that mantle of butcher would fall from credentialed or so last. more than anything the surrender criticizes the triumph of a just cause coming in because of the union. do you use triumph vindicated to rule by majority. the founders believed in a
perpetual union. the capacity of citizen soldiers represent a democracy to the conscripts and dukes of an autocratic society. the downfall of the confederacy on bird in the south slavery, and institution imports while civilized people not brought up under it as graham put it. now the way was open for the unions eat those of moral and material progress and the white southerners to the distant brought from serb serbians slaveholding class how great saw it. grievously the surrender terms what he said the political conversion of the defeated confederate to a creed of democratic self-government of freedom. great did not believe lee and his men to be blameless. he describes the session is a sin in a crime, but he believed for everything there must be achieved atonement and his mercy again was designed to affect that atonement. grant made no concession to the confederates are copperhead fitness terms. his generosity was the generosity of a conqueror whose
the jury was total. grimsby of the surrenders in triumph of right over wrong are just as resident and enduring among northerners as lee's interpretation did among southerners. among the northerners who embrace grants policy of magnanimity were abolitionists of radical republicans, part of the argument of my book as americans across a spectrum embraced magnanimity, but investors very different kind of meanings. he was charged at the time they confederates and copperhead sabbaticals, abolitionist of radical republicans were intent on vengeance against the south. the historical record suggests otherwise. in the eyes of abolitionist such as the influential gold editor, magnanimity with the means to achieve a purpose namely the ascent of the south to emancipation. reporters saw magnanimity as an emblem of their moral authority. superb disc really put the civilization based on three labors of a higher and more humane type are not based on
slavery. really continued, i want as many rebels is possible to live to see the south rejuvenated and transferred by the influence of free labor. but fitter fate for the likes of leap into bear witness to the unfolding social revolution. this is how greeley saw things here at ms since coming northerners who embrace grants term set to the south, we don't want to inflict punishment. we want you to change in confederates responded to demands for change with a form of punishment. this contest over the surrenders meany did not simply pick this up again the north or even the confederacy against the union. instead, it pitted those who have a thorough transformation of the south against those who rejected such transformation. here we have the theme of divisions within each side. the north-south conservatives, peace democrats copperheads were loathed for their political rival of the republican party of lincoln to treat the surrenders of vindication and
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